From the Marketing Department to the C-Suite, With Kasey Krueger

In taking on the CEO role at DTC Communications, Kasey Krueger joined a small but growing number of top executives with roots in the marketing and communications departments. Listen in to hear his advice for others looking to climb the ladder in their careers.

Other episodes in our informal series on marketing and comms professionals climbing to the C-suite:

• Libby Calnon: https://pioneer.coop/episode/communicators-moving-into-the-gm-role-part-1/
• Tim Brinkman: https://pioneer.coop/episode/from-the-marketing-department-to-the-gms-office/
• Scott Peters: https://pioneer.coop/episode/communicators-moving-into-the-gm-role-part-2/

Creators and Guests

Host

Andy Johns

Vice President of Marketing

What is The StoryConnect Podcast?

StoryConnect features interviews with marketers, communicators, CEOs and other leaders at cooperative and independent broadband companies, electric cooperatives and municipal power providers. The goal of the podcast is to help listeners discover ideas to shape their stories and connect with their customers. It is produced by Pioneer Utility Resources.

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Andy Johns:
What does it take to go from the marketing department to the
C-suite? That's what we'll be talking about on this episode of

The StoryConnect Podcast. My name is Andy Johns with Pioneer,
and I'm joined on this episode by Kasey Krueger,

who is the CEO at DTC Communications in Middle Tennessee.

Kasey, thanks so much for joining me.

Kasey Krueger:
Yeah, thank you for having me, I appreciate it.

Andy Johns:
So these are always some of our most popular episodes. We've done
a few of these where we talked to somebody who has moved,

like I said, from the marketing department to become CEO at a
telco or a utility somewhere around the country.

And I thought Kasey's got a pretty cool story,
fairly new at DTC,

a little bit over a year that you've been there.

So thought it was good to have you on.

It's fun to have a story, a couple StoryConnect connections here.

So, Kasey took over for Chris Townson,
who was on episode 370 of The StoryConnect

Podcast. And then Kasey left Pioneer,
where Leo Carlson took over for that role,

who was on episode number 51 of StoryConnect.

So we have a couple connections there,
kind of full circle.

But Kasey, glad that you're on. So let's start off with kind of
the big picture.

My perception is that this is unscientific,
but my perception is that maybe marketing and communications

folks get a little bit more of a look when it comes to the kind
of top spot,

the CEO, general manager position.

Do you feel like traditionally it's been operations person,
finance,

maybe engineering, but now it seems like a little bit more often
it's coming from marketing or communications.

Do you see that, and if so, why?

Kasey Krueger:
Yeah, I think, you hit it there.

You know, traditionally what boards have been looking for is an
operations folks.

So you think like an outside plant director who's been in the
role for 20 years. They know the network, right?

Or financial folks, you know, CFO or controller that's been with
the business for 15 or 20 years,

and they know the financials. Those are very safe hires,
right?

Right. But I think as competition has increased,
you know, once upon a time,

we didn't have any competition at all.

And then it was just in maybe our cities or communities.

And today we compete everywhere,
you know, with Starlink and with the mobile Wi-Fi.

You know, every single one of our broadband subscribers is in
competition.

So I think a lot of your forward looking boards are looking for,
you know,

somebody who has a little bit of marketing and public relations
experience so that,

you know, that's what the future's going to be.

Competition is not going to slow down.

It's only going to continue to increase.

So some forward looking boards are looking for folks that can
help them compete better.

Andy Johns:
I think so. So talk me through your career.

You start off, once you got to the industry,
director of marketing and public relations at Pioneer

Communications. Then chief customer officer,
and then assistant CEO under Cat Moyer for a few years there at

Pioneer. Talk me through kind of some of those steps along the
way.

Kasey Krueger:
I was pretty young when I got into the industry. I was 24,
and wife and I were living,

we got out of college, and we were living in eastern Kansas.

And, we were kind of looking for a way to get back home to
Western Kansas.

And a job director of marketing popped up at Pioneer
Communications.

I knew nothing about telecommunications outside of I had Wi-Fi.

Andy Johns:
That's a start.

Kasey Krueger:
Yeah. Applied and, got the role and,
you know, learned a lot in a hurry.

I remember sitting in Dan Kistler,
who he worked at Pioneer, and he's now at Logan Telephone here in

Kentucky. But he was talking to me about data only,
and I'm maybe like a month on the job.

And I'm like, all right, you got to stop. I have no clue what
you're talking about.

But started as director of marketing,
worked my way up there, and eventually our customer experience

manager retired. So opened up kind of an opportunity for me to
take over our customer experience department.

And that was a great learning experience for me,
getting closer to our customer.

But it also allowed me to kind of manage the entire customer
experience,

so I think that was helpful. You know,
that your customer experience and your marketing tie together,

and they're talking to each other,
and they mesh. And eventually just,

you know, kept taking on more and more roles on the operational
side and on,

you know, the financial side, the strategy side.

And I worked my way into assistant CEO there for several years.

Andy Johns:
Let's talk a little bit about that,
taking on other roles.

You know, that could be a challenge throughout a career. You're
(1) that work life balance,

but you're also wanting to be, if you've got some ambition to
move up,

you're wanting to take some of those extra roles.

Talk me through kind of how you looked at some of those
opportunities to,

you know, to step outside of that normal maybe what that famous
line on job descriptions,

it says other duties that may be required or whatever in the job
description.

How did you evaluate those? Was it just automatic "yes" to
everything,

or what are you thinking?

Kasey Krueger:
Pretty much, you know, I was in my younger days,
I might not have been as smart as I am now,

but it was whatever you need. I'm your guy.

I'm your guy. And I may know nothing about it,
but I'll get it done.

So we were one of the first companies in the nation to do a
managed service through MobiTV.

And, you know, there's a lot of pain points to that,
but I was just dumb enough to say,

we're going to do this, and we're going to get it done,
and it was a great move for us. You know,

and eventually that turned into other things from a strategy
standpoint,

you know, things like acquisitions,
helping with that. And eventually it turned into,

hey, I need you to take on this fiber build,
you know?

And did I know how to build a fiber network as a marketing guy?

Not really. But you know, you get the right people in the room,
and,

you know, you just kind of manage the project and keep it pushing
along. And,

you know, I think Cat just trusted that it would get done,
and it get done right.

You know, you maybe don't have to be an expert in everything,
but,

you know, you get the right people in the room and just get it
done.

Andy Johns:
When did you start thinking, you know,
once you start in that role,

you talked about some of the steps there.

When did you start thinking, you know,
hey, I might need to line some things up.

I might need to start planning ahead and thinking about this,
this career trajectory to become CEO or general manager?

At what point do you start thinking about that?

Kasey Krueger:
I would say it was pretty early on. As I mentioned,
you know, I came into the industry pretty young, so I knew it

would take some time. But early on,
it's something that I kind of identified that I wanted to do.

I think the rural telco industry is a great opportunity for
somebody to become a CEO.

You know, there's 850, you know,
rural companies around the United States of varying sizes,

and each one of them needs a general manager or CEO.

So I kind of saw that opportunity early on,
but it took a lot of patience.

And you just got to kind of bide your time and,
you know, get your experience under your belt,

you know, and telecommunications is just so many different pieces
of our business from, you know, the IT and cybersecurity side to

the engineering and build out sides,
to the financial pieces, to the marketing pieces,

to the regulatory pieces and legal pieces.

So it just takes, you know, it takes quite a bit of time to feel
comfortable in all those areas.

So, trying to be patient as much as I could.

I think I drove Cat crazy a little bit,
but it's something that we talked about on a regular basis,

you know, at least a couple times a year we'd sit down and,
you know,

but that was me talking to her and say,
hey, this is something that I want to do.

And that's an awkward conversation to have when you're telling
your boss that you want their job.

But it's something that she was always willing to have the
conversation with me,

willing to talk about my career trajectory,
and I always greatly appreciated that.

Andy Johns:
That certainly backs up everything I've ever heard about Cat.

She is well respected around the industry.

Kasey Krueger:
She is fantastic.

Andy Johns:
Let's talk about that biding your time.

Because 11 years, thereabout at Pioneer before the DTC
opportunity came up.

And, you know, we may get a little personal here,
but when you're looking at that,

there were likely other opportunities to pursue other things.

A lot of folks, that is the path for them to bounce kind of from
one organization to the other every 2 or 3 years to move up the

chain. You had the opportunity to move up at one spot.

But what kind of went into some of that decision making that (a)
staying for 11 years was the right move?

And then that (b) when the DTC opportunity came up,
that that was the one you wanted to go for?

Kasey Krueger:
Sure. You know, Pioneer is a great company.

The industry is a fantastic industry.

And Western Kansas was home for us.

We grew up about 60 miles from where our headquarters was.

My wife and I both, so, you know,
we were raising kids out there in western Kansas.

Our children now are are twelve and eight.

So, you know, and just a lot of great folks out there,
a lot of great employees.

We were doing really great work and really great things.

So I really never really had a desire to leave.

And to be honest, when the DTC position came up,
I wasn't unhappy or anything like that.

But I saw that they posted a job that somebody was interested in
marketing.

They were interested in somebody in marketing. And,
you know, that just doesn't come around very often.

So, you know, kind of took a look at the area.

We're about 40 miles east of Nashville.

My kids were going into sixth grade and second grade,
so it was a great time for us.

Andy Johns:
Good time to do it, yep, family wise. Yep.

Kasey Krueger:
Kind of just threw my name in the ring and said if it happens,
it happens.

You know, if fate takes us there.

Fate takes us there. And the good Lord looks after us,
you know. So threw my name in the ring,

but I really think that probably helped me throughout the
interview process because I was happy at Pioneer.

So I kind of just really shot the board straight.

You know, I didn't BS them very much.

Just kind of told them exactly what I thought. And if you like
it, you like it. If you don't, you don't. I'll stay where I'm at.

I'm in a good place.

Andy Johns:
Yeah.

Kasey Krueger:
So I think that kind of went in my favor on that one.

But overall, it's all worked out really well.

Moving across, moving your family across the country,
you know, 15 hours away is a big,

big deal. And looking back here 14 months later,
there's some things that could have went wrong,

but it's all worked out really well.

Andy Johns:
Sure. And if I think it was on the Innovative Systems podcast
that I heard,

y'all had a pretty good discussion about Tennessee accents versus
Kansas accents and that kind of stuff and the adjustments there.

So we won't get into all that, but I'm glad that you're enjoying
it here in the Volunteer State.

When you're looking at what we talked about earlier,
you know, the thought from a lot of boards is oh,

so and so knows the network or so and so knows the finances,
and those are really the spots when I've talked to folks who've

done it before, who made those kind of career moves,
those are some areas that can be seen as deficiencies for folks

that come from from marketing. You could certainly make the
argument that, well, sure. But those folks in other disciplines

may be great, but they don't know the customer journey the way
that somebody who's done the jobs that you have done.

How did you identify, or did you feel like you had a couple of
those spots where you needed to improve?

And if so, I know you went and got,
I believe an MBA a few years back.

But at what point do you look at it and say,
all right, this is where I need to improve,

this is where I need more experience,
and how do you go about building those skills that may not

necessarily always go with with marketing and communications?

Kasey Krueger:
For sure. You know, obviously there's formal education,
right? So I have two bachelor's degrees from KState.

Then I have a master's of business administration from Kansas
Wesleyan University.

But as I also saw deficiencies,
I went out and got several certifications as well.

So like one area that I was working a lot on contracts.

And so I went out and got a certificate on contracts because I
wanted to learn more about contracts.

And then, you know, on the financial side,
I went to Cornell and got a certificate oon the financial pieces

of it. And I recently completed a certificate from MIT on AI
leadership.

So, you know, just continuing to build and one,
you have to identify that you have a gap or you have a hole,

right? But then trying to fill those gaps_

Andy Johns:
Which can be pretty difficult, which can be pretty difficult for
some people, particularly ambitious ones. So yeah.

That's part of it.

Kasey Krueger:
So finding that gap or identifying that you have one,
and then going out,

you know, with the World Wide Web,
you can learn anything, right?

But a lot of that, especially in the industry,
when you talk about regulatory things and financial,

that when you start talking about a rate of return company or
Enhanced A-CAM company and how those operate,

a lot of that's on the job training.

So essentially, I mean, as I worked my way up,
you know, I would get more and more involved in the say,

let's say, let's just say the financial pieces of it. And then
Cat was just really good to answer my thousand questions.

And she'd know that something was a little complex,
and she would help explain it to me.

So, you know, you can kind of say that Cat was one of my mentors
and,

but she was super good about, hey,
here's our yearly audit.

If you have questions, let me know. So I'd go through it,
you know,

I'd write down 20 questions, and then I'd ask her,
and she would explain it,

and then she would explain the why and she would explain the why
behind the why.

Andy Johns:
Oh, okay.

Kasey Krueger:
She really helped me piece a lot of that together as well on the
financial side and the regulatory side.

A lot of the regulatory pieces,
it just comes, I wouldn't even say from learning.

It just comes from years of experience and kind of knowing how
everything flows and works.

But a lot of that's just asking questions,
kind of getting your foot in the door to where you can see the

audit, and then asking a whole bunch of questions about it and
working your way through it.

Andy Johns:
Have there been some things that were surprises along the way?

Particularly in the assistant CEO role for a couple of years at
Pioneer,

and then in the first 14, 15 months at DTC?

Have there been some things that have surprised you that you were
like,

oh? You know, I know when I was talking to our CEO,
Mike Shepherd,

he and I were traveling somewhere and,
he spent a lot of time on the phone with things like insurance.

And, you know, the not the exciting parts of what you think about
being an organizational leader like that.

But have there been some things that have surprised you about
either that assistant CEO role or the CEO role?

Kasey Krueger:
I would say, a few things. I would say,
one is just how much you have to communicate.

So, you know, I have to communicate with our employees,
you know,

all the time we have to communicate with our members. We have to
communicate with our cities and counties.

We have to communicate with our legislators. We have to
communicate with our other companies. So there's just a lot of

communication. So when I came on,
I think I had like eight speeches to do in a matter of like a

month. And so I'm like, okay, here we go.

But the other thing I would say is just how quickly,
how much time you don't have,

I guess. You know, how quickly your days can get,
can just get blown up by one little thing.

Andy Johns:
Sure.

Kasey Krueger:
And you just got to deal with it. You know,
so some of that is how much time you don't have and time

management. I say the most work I get done is before 8:00,
after 5:00 and on the weekends.

But a lot of that comes down to I need to be a better time
manager too.

So that's a little bit of a struggle is just managing time and
managing those expectations.

Andy Johns:
Speaking of that, that leads to the next question nicely.

You mentioned Cat Moyer as a mentor earlier.

There are a million books at every bookstore about how to manage
your time better,

how to be a better leader or, you know,
the podcast, all of that out there.

Have there been some folks I know you mentioned,
Cat, whether it's an in-person mentor or either somebody else

that you've read or listened to that you feel like have been
meaningful to kind of help you learn some of those

things along the way?

Kasey Krueger:
Sure. I'm a big reader. I don't read,
I listen to Audible, so I'm kind of running out of Audible books.

So that's what I do is I listen to a ton of Audibles.

I listen to a ton of podcasts as I'm driving or as I'm mowing the
yard and things like that.

So I don't listen to a lot of music when I'm doing that. I listen
to podcasts and books,

so a lot of that came from that. I don't know if I have one that
really stands out.

Andy Johns:
I do feel like I mow more slowly when I'm listening to a good,
thoughtful podcast than if I'm just,

you know, rocking out to music.

Kasey Krueger:
There's sometimes I don't want the mowing to be over with,
so just because I'm listening to a good one, and I know if I go

inside, I'll have to quit listening to it and do something else.

But other than that, you know, growing up in the industry in
Kansas,

you know, all the GM's and CEOs of Kansas were just so helpful as
we went through it.

But really here in Tennessee, Jonathan West has really helped me
a lot at Twin Lakes.

You know, great guy with a great organization and he's kind of
helped me through any questions I had about Tennessee

specifically or anything I needed.

So those are a few that have really helped me along the way.

Andy Johns:
Got it makes a lot of sense. And it is a pretty tight knit good
group that they've got there in Tennessee,

so a lot of folks there. Yeah. Jonathan West,
episode number 23 of StoryConnect.

I was pulling it up over here. So he's yeah,
we've had Jonathan on as well.

So what do you think going forward?

We mentioned that organizations and boards are looking more for
somebody with some communications and marketing skills.

And as a CEO, you mentioned specifically the DTC that was listed
in the,

you know, in the listing there. Why do you think,
I would argue that more folks are looking that way,

but maybe still not enough. Now,
again, you know, I'm biased, but why do you think it is that

companies are looking at particularly broadband folks are looking
at somebody with a communications background a little bit more?

And how does that position those organizations positively going
forward?

Kasey Krueger:
Sure. You know, I think now in the industry is a good time to be
looking for marketing and communications folks.

If you really think about it, you know,
your financial folks, once upon a time,

everybody was ready to return and was in the tariff pools and,
you know,

yada, yada, yada, and it was extremely complex.

Today a lot, I mean, we still have plenty of rate of return
companies in the industry,

but a good portion are enhanced A-CAM,
and they're not tariffed.

And a lot of organizations are running just kind of a normal
business is what I would call it.

And then a good portion of companies have also built out their
fiber.

Andy Johns:
Right.

Kasey Krueger:
So you're not so much operating,
you know, going through, you don't need a strong operations

person anymore. So, you know, finance may be kind of not as
important anymore.

It is, but maybe not as important as it once was.

And then, you know, operations,
from an operational standpoint, our networks are built out for

the most part. You know, so where does that leave us?

That leaves us with a large investment that we've made against
steep competition in your cable companies.

You know, your cell phone companies and mobile companies,
other fiber providers,

and Starlink and satellite services.

You know, for companies that have invested,
you know, $50 million,

$100 million, $200 million in a network.

What are they looking to do? They're looking to monetize that
investment,

right? So that kind of leads you into this marketing path of,
I need somebody who's going to get me more customers and give me

more customer loyalty, and we need to do a better job on that
front.

Andy Johns:
Yeah, I think, I think you said before we started recording that,
that whole idea of if you build it,

they will come. That may work for the first 20,
30, 40%, but then to take it to that next bit definitely requires

some–

Kasey Krueger:
I was talking to somebody the other day,
and we were talking about how growth can really be hidden in

build out. The question is how good of a company is what happens
once you get done building it out.

Andy Johns:
Oh, I like that a lot.

Kasey Krueger:
So if you're building out for 8 or 10 years and you got good
growth,

that's great. But that can kind of be hidden in a construction
crew coming to somebody's house.

What happens when you're done building,
that's really kind of shows you the bread and butter of how good

you are as a company.

Andy Johns:
Yeah, yeah, that line is going up and up and up while you're
building,

but what does it do, yeah, once you're built out. I like that a
lot.

The last thing I had for you then,
there's been some really good advice.

I love the piece you mentioned about going through that audit
line by line and asking all the questions. But if you had one

kind of overarching piece of advice for folks,
you know, maybe there are folks early in their career,

maybe it's folks midway through their career that are thinking,
you know,

hey, I really think I have something to offer to this company or
this industry.

I'd like to climb the ladder a little bit.

What kind of overarching advice would you have for those folks
looking to make that kind of move?

Kasey Krueger:
Sure. I would say first of all,
be patient.

You know, I thought I could be CEO two years in,
you know, and that was not the case.

So be patient, but also be self-aware.

You know, there are some folks who can be CEO,
but there's some that you have a lot of gaps and you need to,

you know, find those gaps and start to fill those gaps.

The other thing I would say is get involved. Don't go outside
your lane.

But, you know, if there's a project that you think you can take
on,

take it on. You know, there's only one way to grow,
and that's especially if you want to grow, say you're a marketing

person or say you're a customer experience or sales or whatever
it is.

There's only one way to get into the operations side of the
business. There's only one way to get into the financial side of

the business, and that's to take on projects,
get a little bit more involved.

It's probably not going to happen all at once,
but just kind of try to work your way into some of that and show

value and, you know, help manage a project,
help do this, help do that.

And you'll eventually kind of continue to learn and continue to
learn. And then the last thing I'd say is have the hard

conversation. Talk to your boss,
talk to your mentors, talk to your board about,

you know, how can I take the next step?

And maybe some of that is what do I need to work on?

You know, but don't be afraid to have those conversations.

I think the vast majority of CEOs,
if they're a good CEO, are more than happy to have those

conversations, even though they may not be the funnest
conversations.

Andy Johns:
Yeah, I think that's a very good advice,
and some of those tough conversations may be some of the most

fruitful too, so makes a lot of sense.

Well, Kasey, thanks so much for joining me and sharing those
insights with our listeners.

Kasey Krueger:
Absolutely. Thanks for having me,
Andy. I appreciate it.

Andy Johns:
He is Kasey Krueger. He is CEO of DTC communications there in
Middle Tennessee.

I'm your host, Andy Johns with Pioneer Utility Resources.

And until we talk again, keep telling your story.

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