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The Agency Playbook is a podcast for independent insurance agencies looking to grow smarter. In each episode, we sit down with agency owners and operators to uncover the strategies, workflows, and lessons behind successful agencies. No sales pitches or fluff. Just real conversations and practical takeaways from people doing the work every day.
Joe Ems (00:00)
All right, welcome to the agency playbook, where we talk with some of the smartest operators in the insurance industry to uncover the strategies, workflows, and ideas that are helping real agencies grow. No sales pitch here, no fluff, just real conversations and practical takeaways that help people do the work that they do every day just better and stronger. So today I am joined by Nick Gore of Lightwell. Nick and his team have built deep expertise in serving religious organizations and churches.
Joe Ems (00:30)
And we're gonna discuss the unique risks of these organizations and what they face, common everyday coverage gaps that these agents should be aware of and what it takes to really successfully write and service in that niche side of building an agency. Right. So Nick, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being on here.
Nick (00:50)
Yeah, no, thank you so much. So I appreciate being on here and I look forward to sharing what we've learned here at our agency. we've been around for over forty years, so there's been a lot of time spent in the niche market industry and how that's played into our future and where we are today. So I appreciate the opportunity and look forward to learning what you would have for Assembly as well as w partnering with niche NGCs and the company as a whole.
Joe Ems (01:12)
Yeah, awesome. Awesome. Well, very excited to to dive into it here. So Nick, why why don't you tell us a little bit about your background, what you do with Lightwell Well, how long you've been with Lightwell and kind of how you got started.
Nick (01:23)
Yeah. Yeah. So I've been with Lightwell for just over three and a half years now. So I'm actually very new to our agency. however when we got into the agency, started really seeing what was going on. We've always had one primary carrier, and that's where we were. We were happy in that one primary carrier. The market was going well, we were writing new business, and there was no question of what we needed to do. so come 2021, we really started seeing that hard market hit. We saw a lot of carriers start backing out, a lot of specific church niche market carriers.
Nick (01:53)
We're like the risk is getting too risky. We don't want to take this on. We don't know what's what the future looks like. So we're taking a step back. And we saw a lot of book that book business being not renewed, canceled, or just having sitting there without insurance for a year to two years. So the agency brought me in to develop our new side of it and we call it our special market side, which is everything outside of our primary carrier. So I really work on developing the relationships with all the other carriers that might be out there, whether that's an admitted or non-admitted market, or or
Nick (02:22)
Building relationships with one unique carrier that really only writes this one line of coverage. And that might be a water exposure, that might be cyber, that might be a a sexual abuse and molestation policy. So our agency has really taken the ownership of knowing the church and then have the people in the place to really see hey, who are the carriers and players in this world and how do we partner with them and what's it look like? Part of that also in developing that and being as strong as we are in this niche market.
Nick (02:48)
Focusing specifically on the church and faith-based nonprofits. I mean, there's obviously some outside of that that are sprinkled in there here and there, but that is our ninety-nine percent of our book of business, and that's our bread and butter here at our agency. and part of the responsibilities for myself and overstein by our senior executive leadership team here at agency is developing what are the programs that really support us in doing that. so I have the privilege and opportunity to work with our AMS system, our CRMs.
Nick (03:16)
But also working with our third party contracts like a assembly and some other ones that we work with on the part side. So I love getting to do what I get to do here, but I also get to see the impact on a very specific market and see how not only am I benefiting my life and my agency, but I'm benefiting the life of those before us in our niche area here in the state of South Carolina and Florida.
Joe Ems (03:37)
Yeah, yeah, that's very cool. It's
Joe Ems (03:39)
You know, I speak with lot of agencies and and you guys have a a very different model from the standard, but it's become an extremely successful model. I mean I know that you guys are I've spoken with of course you many, many times and other lightweight agents around the country and you guys have really built something very, very cool and and a a machine that that just runs so well from from everything that I've heard from both you guys and and others that that know ya. so what what has
Joe Ems (04:09)
use what would you say has attracted you to this market here?
Nick (04:13)
Yeah, so going back to the foundation of agency was started by a father and son group, the Rochester family. and they really saw a need in the market of people don't understand the church. People don't understand what's going on in the church and they don't understand the risks that are associated when it comes to a church. So Ray Rochester and his dad Donald worked together to develop a plan and a strategy.
Nick (04:39)
To really go into that market space and say, hey, we know the church. We've been a part of the church. So this is how we can make an impact on you. And that has driven our legacy. So when it comes to a niche market, it's not only do I own this industry and I understand this niche, but I also participate in that. So one of the unique aspects of our agency here, and it's not a requirement because it can't be, but everyone on our staff to this point is involved in their local congregations. They're ex pastors, they're
Nick (05:07)
pastors, wives, they are deacons, el lay elders, whatever it might be within the church congregation, that gives us that step in the right direction to say, hey, we understand what you're going through. But also a lot of insurance companies, whether niche or not, it's hey, how much premium can I get out of you? How many dollars can I get out of you as a company organization? We don't care about that. That's not our goal. That's not our bottom line. Our bottom line is how are we using the gifts and riches that you have in your organization
Nick (05:36)
And your donors, because all of our operations that we work with are donor-based. how are we using the donation that you're receiving, that tithe if it's a church? How are we using that to support your ministry and not just being another burden on your ministry? You have all these other expenses that you may not want to have. Insurance is one of those. No one wants like to pay for insurance, no one cares to have insurance, but you know you need to have it for those catastrophic losses. So how did we come in and how can we partner with that? And that was what our founders answered and figured out.
Nick (06:06)
And now today we continue to give that same service. We come in and relate. We understand. We know. So pri particularly for me, I'm still relatively young in comparison to some of my coworkers, but I got my undergraduate degree in pastoral ministries. So I understand the teaching and preaching side of a ministry. I understand what that looks like. So I now can come to the table and say, Hey, I understand you're worried about this week's sermon, or you're worried about that new topic that you have to talk about, whatever it might be, or you have to bring in a counseling situation. You focus on that.
Nick (06:36)
Let our agency as your insurance advisors look into that, care for your operational side of things and be a partner and not just a strain on your organization, whether that's financial or from a business perspective, a a strain.
Joe Ems (06:49)
Yeah.
Joe Ems (06:50)
Yeah, that there are a few things that you said in that just there that that stuck out to me. One of those being that you guys, everyone has a kind of an internal look into these organizations. And I think that's so important when someone decides to focus in on a certain niche, right? So there's another agent that I work with, and the vast majority of what he writes is contractors. Well, before he was an agent, he was a contractor. So he's able to sit down with these guys and speak their language and say, Hey, you
Joe Ems (07:20)
Worry about being a contractor. I got you covered here. I know what you guys need. And it sounds like that you guys have built an entire organization on that idea, which it goes so much deeper than just the agency owner having the background or a certain producer having the background. It's an entire organization. That's that's gotta be very a very good feeling for the the organizations that you guys work with, knowing that everyone has that background. That's that's so cool what you guys have done there.
Nick (07:34)
Yes. Yep.
Joe Ems (07:50)
So diving in a little bit to the understanding this market, right? What makes churches different from other commercial accounts? Because I know that you said that you've written a few that are outside of the the typical playbook that you guys look at. What would you say are are some of the factors that make that that risk a little bit different?
Nick (08:09)
Yeah, so great question there. And it really goes to do you understand what a ministry is doing? Going back to are you a part of that niche market in some way, shape, or form in your own life? So when you're looking at a church, a lot of people overlook the fact that they need non-owned and hired auto. They need general liability that's going to include sexual abuse and molestation. What about religious freedom? Religious freedom is a coverage that you can't just go to a state farm and get, or you can't just go to this other company and get. It's a very specific form.
Nick (08:38)
That only specific carriers offer. And if they don't, we've worked with some. And one of our gifts that we get to be able to do, and I get to do, particularly in my role, is I get to work with companies that don't already have that form and develop that form. and how do we have that coverage on a policy? How do we have that peril covered? so really understanding what are those unique factors that might come to play. Pastoral counseling, that's another one. Every pastor, no matter if you say you're counseling or not, you're counseling.
Nick (09:05)
Are you protecting that truly, or are you just saying, you have this general liability policy, your occurrence and aggregate limit are going to cover that? 90% of the time, given your exclusions or endorsements on that policy, it's going to say, actually, this type of exposure is not covered. so having that understanding of those carriers and knowing those pain points of a ministry and being able to come to the table and say, Hey, Pastor Joe, I have a policy here for you. I'm gonna walk through it with you, I'm gonna explain each of these coverages.
Nick (09:34)
But also point out what makes our policy unique. I'm offering you these coverages. I'm offering you these things that you may not even know prior to today that were needs for your ministry. And I'm gonna show you why that's a need. I'm gonna show you what we're doing to make that happen. and along with that, the coverage on the liability side, you also have this other world where it's how do you come in and explain to a ministry that or a nonprofit where again they're based on ties, they're based on just the money that's given through donations.
Nick (10:01)
But you need to maintain your building, you need to put a new roof on, you need to update your HVAC, wiring, plumbing. Those are all things that many nonprofits in particular think of. That's the insurance's job too. That's not my job. but that's not the case. Having that outdated stuff makes it really hard to insure. So then you start educating and you start building out how do you have a fund that's gonna start covering those things. So it goes beyond just the simple factors of coverage and goes to the broader partnership of hey, this is what we're here to do.
Nick (10:30)
And help you think through things you've never had to think through before. and I think that gives us a foot in the door that now, hey, we've come with this other information and now we have both feet in the door, they're ready to sign, they're looking at our industry like you know what you're talking about. And it's not coming across as arrogant, it's coming across as knowledgeable and someone that actually cares about them and not someone that's just there for another ten hundred, two hundred dollar.
Joe Ems (10:33)
Yeah.
Nick (10:58)
Commission check. We're here to actually be a partner in what you're doing.
Joe Ems (11:01)
Yeah. Yeah, I think that there's really something to be said about taking a a like an advisor approach to the the businesses that you work with. And for you guys, I mean it sounds like there are a lot of the same things that you deal with if you're insuring a pizza shop or a restaurant. but there are different considerations that need to be taken and maybe different approaches as well, just cause these are not the same type of organizations and same type of businesses that people are typically insuring. So I
Nick (11:07)
Mm-hmm.
Joe Ems (11:31)
like for you guys to have that expertise it it really really helps go the distance now for some agents out there that maybe they want to start looking into pushing into this niche and and trying to write more of this business what would you say some of the common risks that are overlooked
Nick (11:31)
Yeah.
Nick (11:47)
Yeah, so one of the biggest common risks is understanding the concept of sexual abuse and molestation. and that's going specific to our niche market. But when you're looking at a niche as a whole, one of the biggest things that's overlooked are those one-off things that might be a critical part of your operations. So for example, I mentioned the counseling. A lot of people just say counseling's on a form. It's covered by your general liability. But are you actually really understanding the forms and conditions that are on your policy? So if you're gonna go into a niche market.
Nick (12:17)
You can't just say I'm contracting with these 500 carriers and I'm going to write whoever accepts the risk this time. It's I'm contracting with these 10 to 15 carriers. I'm building solid relationships with those carriers. I can call my underwriter at any point. If it's Saturday or Sunday, I can pick up the phone and get on the phone with my underwriter. I've met and built relationships with the claims company. So if it's processed through internal company or if it's processed through a law office or attorneys, I know them. I have those relationships with them. So it's never a question of
Nick (12:44)
Maybe this policy is going to cover it, or it's just covered in your general liability. I actually know what these firms are saying. I know what my policy is covering. I can bring that to the table. And a lot of times people overlook all the forms and exclusion and endorsements. They think, I'm not going to get into those because those aren't important, or you're not going to want to write with me. But when you actually bring those to the forefront of your conversation, say, here's where I'm actually not giving you coverage. Is this a part of your operation? That brings that value to that niche market.
Nick (13:11)
So don't overlook those factors, those things that you say it might just be covered in a liability. Or if there is, again, looking very specific to my market, that sexual abuse and molestation coverage on there. And there's that pastoral counseling coverage on the policy. Okay, it's covered. But again, a lot of people forget to go and read those forms. It's not covered if this, this, or this happened. So being forefront with that information. And if you really want to own a niche market, they're going to love the transparency.
Nick (13:38)
And we see a lot in the insurance industry where the transparency factor is very uncommon. People don't like the transparency because they don't think they write business. And I'm here to say that you can be complete transparent to the best of your knowledge and ability of Yacht policy and still have a fifty million dollar book of business and supporting your family and supporting the lives of twenty or thirty other employees. So transparency doesn't mean you don't write business. Transparency means you bring something to the table and others aren't.
Nick (14:08)
And you're bringing that niche market now and you're saying, Hey, I know this. I wanna be a partner with you, you wanna be a partner with me now because of what I brought to the table. And I think that gives us a leg forward and understanding that coverage is.
Joe Ems (14:18)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And and I mean let's talk a little bit more about like building that specialty practice, that like niche practice, right? So why would you say focusing on a niche, why would an agency want to push in that direction?
Nick (14:32)
Yeah. So ownership. That's the biggest thing. I say you own that lane. And when you own that lane, you own the risks that are associated, you own the carriers that are part of that, and you own that market in whatever region or area you're at. You when you start working with ten of the same companies, those ten companies have worked with other companies as well. They're working with that same, for example, you say contractor. They know that other contractor on the street, it might be their competitor, but there's a good chance at the hierarchical level of that company, they're gonna know that other company.
Nick (15:00)
They're gonna have relationships because they wanna know what's going on in that company, just like that other company wants to know what's going on in their company. So you really start saying, hey, I've now rented 10 of these. That 10 now turns into 20. Those 20 turn into 30. Those 30 turn into 100. And it just continues building because you've now said, This is where I play, this is where I'm at. You understand who we are, you understand what we're going after, and I bring that value to your table that other people aren't bringing to your table. and that speaks time and time again of volume to them that no one else is bringing.
Nick (15:30)
And when you show yourself in that ownership of that industry and that niche market, you're finding people that say, Hey, I want to ask you all my questions. I want to be that person that you're always reaching out to to learn more and understand. And we've been very intentional with our agency is lightwell insurance advisors. Why do we have the word advisors? Because we want to focus on the light of the world, which is where lightwell comes from.
Nick (16:00)
and we want to be your insurance advisors. So when it's those nonprofit and faith-based organizations, we want to be your advisor to really look through that risk and understand that risk. And if you only have five to 10, 20, 30 accounts of that one industry, yeah, you might know it, but do you own it? No. You own it once you start building that that's 75% or higher of my book of business. But how do you get into that? It's really starting to get into are you building the right relationships?
Nick (16:29)
Are you finding the key players in your area and starting to work with them? For an example for our industry here, so our agency went January 1st, roughly, we live launched our brand into the state of Florida. and I've had the privilege of leading that initiative for our agency and for the light wall as a whole company. And part of that has been you got to get in there and start building those relationships. And it may mean for the first six to ten months, you're not writing any business.
Nick (16:58)
All you're doing is you're getting your name out there at that niche market, learning that market in that area, and then saying, okay, I've learned all this information, I've compiled it all together, I now own it because now I can go and explain the concerns and details that they might be experiencing. You might say you're a niche market here in South Carolina, but doesn't mean it's the same down in Florida. The liabilities are the same, the risks are the same, but are they the same in how they play out? What laws are down there, or what are the concerns when it comes to property? That could be one of those as well. So really just having ownership of it.
Nick (17:28)
and willing to say, Hey, I'm willing to take a loss for a few few months, maybe a year, to become an owner of this lane. And then once I become that owner, it's not going to be profitable because you've you've brought that value to the table.
Joe Ems (17:34)
Yeah.
Joe Ems (17:40)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And and it I mean, it sounds like for you guys and for really anyone out there looking to push into a specialty market.
Joe Ems (17:49)
Having the know-how and understanding the business and understanding how to work with the actual organizations or business owners obviously is very important, but it also sounds like building those carrier connections is extremely important as well. So for people who might want to start building out those connections a little deeper with those carriers, how have you done that and become successful in that?
Nick (18:10)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. So always having your main carrier that you go to is always a strong win when you're in a niche market. So for us, and you can see all these behind me, those are all of our accolloids that we received from our primary carrier. and we've really built a strong relationship with them. We can sit across the table from the CEO of a billion dollar insurance company and say, Hey, this is a problem we're having. What are you gonna do to fix it? That doesn't just happen every day. You have to build those relationships.
Nick (18:39)
So having that big key partner that you're saying, hey, you get first writer refusal on most of my business, that's gonna show that you have value in them, they can have value in you, and they're gonna give you terms and conditions that are gonna be beneficial. Now, when it comes to all those other parties, so like I said, you don't wanna have 200 carriers. 200 carriers are gonna do you nothing. You can't have a solid relationship with 200 carriers unless you have 200 employees that's each managing one relationship. So having that realistic perspective on there. So
Joe Ems (18:51)
Yeah.
Nick (19:08)
What we've done when it comes to that is we did some research. We interviewed multiple carriers and companies. And sometimes it's usually presented as the carriers interviewing you as the agency. Are you an agency I want to partner with as the carrier? But we've taken and flipped that around and said, I'm interviewing you as a carrier and I want to see how do you answer these questions? Are you owning this lane and do you understand the product that I'm needing? And that has been a huge part of our relationship building.
Nick (19:38)
So we reached out to all these different people, all these different companies. And I probably started off with a total of forty five wholesale brokers and independent carriers that I was meeting with. And I narrowed that down to now we only have six. Why did we do that? Again, I want them to also own the same product. If you don't if I start asking you questions and you're like, I'll have to refer that over to this person to see, now I'm gonna have to refer this part over to this other person, your company's not owning that product anymore.
Joe Ems (19:53)
wow.
Nick (20:07)
It's now sharing a risk that's no longer going to be valuable to me or to my insured. So you've been removed from the equation. But the ones that we did work with are the ones that say, hey, I may not know that, but I'm going to work on it for you, but I'm going to go learn it with this other person really quick and come back and report back to what I've learned. And now we're going to be in partnership with this. I've taken that knowledge. You have the knowledge, and now we can move forward. So I really like partnering with carriers that are willing to also learn the market. And if they don't already know it,
Nick (20:33)
willing to come and be a part of the market with you. So every career that we work with has actually come to our agency. We've taken them to an account. We've s showed them what we're looking at, the questions that we're asking, and we've presented what is important to our ministries. Can you find out if your carrier or companies that you represent are able to do that for us? when you start doing that and stop letting them interview us, but we start interviewing them to some degree. Obviously they have to also like our agency. so you want to put your best foot forward.
Nick (21:01)
you really start seeing a change in investment of them into you. They want to know you you're owning your product, not just them owning your agency.
Joe Ems (21:09)
Yeah.
Joe Ems (21:09)
Yeah, I mean that must be a real peace of mind for the organizations that you work with, knowing that from top down, everyone's going to be an expert. The carriers you're working with, they're an expert within the industry. The of course the whole organization that you guys have is built around being an expert. So that must be a real nice peace of mind for who you're working with. Now, on the other end, when you're dealing with these pastors and these people in the organizations, how do you market into your niche, your your religious organization niche?
Joe Ems (21:39)
How do you guys go about marketing to something that's so specific like that?
Nick (21:43)
Yeah, so that's gonna be so specific to your niche market, what that's gonna look like. For us, using technology is not a win. Using Instagram ads, television ads, that's not a win. Most churches, the leadership, nonprofits leaderships, they're old individuals or people that aren't as friendly to the technology. So you really understand that market and that's where you start going from. So for our specific agency, we've really done where it's going door to door to those ministries.
Nick (22:13)
We make a presence with them, we call them, we find out who the contact person is. And if you can show value that, hey, I might be located at my headquarter office is in Greenville, South Carolina, but I can drive down to Charleston, which is four and a half hours away, and I'm willing to come to your front door and sit down and have coffee with you and explain what we're doing, that's bringing a value to them that they're like, Hey, you have an interest in me. You're not just another insurance agent that's knocking on my door, give me a flyer and walking away.
Nick (22:43)
so we've really understood that building the relationships is critical. And those relationships are what carry our agency. Every ministry that we work with, obviously there's those caveats to that equation, but almost every agency that we work with, they understand who we are and we know who they are. And we can sit across from and ask personal questions. We're not just saying, how was the sermon on Sunday? Great question, not a bad question, but we like to be where
Nick (23:09)
Hey, last time we were here, you asked us to be praying about this situation for your ministry. How is that going? Or hey, we knew this was going on. How is that hap? How is that playing out now for you guys? So taking invested interest. So we're all about the relationships. We're all about going to that front door of that ministry, getting typically you have to get beyond the receptionist or that front desk person. and they have to feel like they can trust you. And usually that doesn't happen the first time, it's your third or fourth visit to that consistency.
Nick (23:38)
so when you have ownership of your lane, you have that consistency and you show that value and you really care about those relationships, that's what's driven our agency to be where we are today. It's all based on relationships. If we just went off what was being searched online or if they found our Instagram page or they found our website, we're gonna die really quickly. But also because of all that value brought to the table, a lot of our new clients too in this season of our agency are referrals.
Nick (24:04)
You get on the phone and say, hey, I was just talking to First Baptist Church of whatever city you're in. And they told me I need to reach out to you guys because they you weren't insured them. And they said, You brought this, this, and this table. Can you do that for me? And then you start building based on rapport and reputation in your industry. there always are going to be those ones that are bad apples that may not have worked with our agency or they might have a bad experience.
Nick (24:31)
And then it's how do you rectify those and how do you continue to come out and say, Hey, we're so sorry that happened and have ownership in the problem. So then when they are looking to come to another agency in the future, we're not off the table anymore. It was just for the season they weren't right for our agency. We weren't right for them, they weren't right for us. And now we've built that rapport back up with them. We've continued to keep that relationship. We don't just say, you don't want to be with our agency anymore. We could care less about you now. never come back. I don't want to work with you.
Joe Ems (24:44)
Mm-hmm.
Nick (25:00)
It's always about how do we contain that relationship. For example, we had about a year ago, one of our larger accounts due to some unfortunate situations, ended up leaving our agency. And then about nine months later, they reached out saying, Hey, we realize what we're missing by not being a part of your agency. Would you be willing to talk with us again? And the only reason that that bridge wasn't weren't burned is because we didn't take aggressive actions towards them and our response to them. But what we said is, hey,
Nick (25:27)
We we completely understand that you need to go somewhere else for this season of your agency. Can we just sit down one last time just to hear what were some of the key problems that you experienced or why were you shopping around? And then taking that evidence or that those questions and those responses and giving concrete evidence of how we've made changes or we've partnered with them brings so much more value to the table that so many people aren't bringing to the table. and made us who we are as an agency and a niche competitor and
Nick (25:56)
One of the leading competitors here in the state of South Carolina.
Joe Ems (25:59)
That's that's really incredible because I feel like these days the personal connection
Joe Ems (26:06)
Has fallen by the wayside a little bit. Just because there is so much tech out there, there are so many options. And that's not to say that the tech out there isn't fantastic and can do amazing things for you. But I do think that that personal touch goes such a long way sometimes when you can actually build relationships with people. That was is the type of thing that will bring somebody back after leaving. And I I feel like that's just something that it just goes by the wayside a little bit too much these days. Do you feel like that is
Joe Ems (26:36)
you guys a huge competitive advantage in being able to build those relationships.
Nick (26:40)
One hundred percent. And I would say right now in Florida, one of the biggest things we keep hearing from every ministry that we've reached out to and started building relationships with is we've never had that with our party agency. We never we don't know who our agent is. We don't know who any of these people are. And hearing that comes to us is like, how are agencies not like that? The church and nonprofit is all about the relationships. That's how they have their donors. That's how they want to treat the business side of their operations as well. so
Nick (27:08)
I would say 95% of them are like, we've never had a relationship. We don't know who our agent is. All we know is we're working with Jim Bob down the road. and Jim Bob being the agency name, but we don't know who we go to to contact to talk to someone. whereas for us, it's hey, I'm your agent, I'm gonna be writing your account, and hey, when it's time to take we've written your account and you're ready to be serviced by agency, I'm gonna bring in your dedicated customer service agent. This is the person that you're gonna work with day on and day out from here on.
Nick (27:36)
They're gonna be the one that's gonna own your inner ministry. They're gonna own what you're doing, and they're gonna be that true partner now moving forward. But if you ever need me, I'm still here. You're still welcome to reach out to me. I haven't left, but I'm just switching you over to someone that has the bandwidth to continue to service you. And hey, I am right there with that person. If they need something, I'm there to answer it. I'm their direct report. So those pieces also bring value to those relationships and saying I'm not just leaving you as the agent, I'm giving you a dedicated person to service you as well.
Nick (28:05)
And also another thing is is they love knowing that our agents are local to them. our if we're writing business in Florida, it's with one of our Florida producers. If I'm servicing an account that's in Florida, it's being serviced by one of my Florida CSA individuals. But South Carolina, it's the same way. And having that connection to the state or l regional location of where they're located brings them value as well. Whereas if you go to certain companies, it could be, I live in New York, but I'm writing a policy for
Nick (28:33)
middle of nowhere, South Carolina. You don't have the same life. You don't understand the same things. so they don't the ministry or the insured doesn't want to build a relationship with you because they think you're so different. But when you say, hey, I live in the middle of nowhere as well. I live in Gaffney, South Carolina, or I live in whatever city it might be, and you're about an hour away from me, you've now made a personal connection with them that they're going to keep remembering, knowing that, hey, my agent's right down the road from me.
Nick (29:02)
I can call them, I can stop by their office. and we're not an online agency. We're all in person. I know that's a taboo thing for a lot of companies now, just where technology's leading you, but those relationships are critical to us and they're critical to our mission. And if it means giving up relationships or having making relationships for us to be looking different, it's not worth our age or our value moving forward.
Joe Ems (29:23)
Yeah.
Joe Ems (29:24)
Yeah, I I think just a takeaway that I've had, and I don't know if this is intentional, but it almost seems like the way that you guys operate within your organization mirrors the religious organizations that you guys work with, being that it's so focused on on that personal connection. I and I I just think that's a that's a really, really cool thing that you guys have done there. I I'd love to talk a little bit about your guys' workflow and your operation a little bit. So when you guys are gathering
Nick (29:50)
Yeah.
Joe Ems (29:54)
Your information to properly underwrite a church or a school or a religious organization, what does that process look like for you guys?
Nick (30:03)
Yeah, so from the very beginning, whether it's we've been working on that relationship for two or three years or it's a new call into our agency that just heard about us through the grapevine, they're both presented the exact same way. One is not better than the other one. And it will always say, Hey, I have time next week. Give me a best available for you and I'm gonna be at your ministry at that time and we're gonna sit down, we're gonna walk your property together. I if you have policy and procedures, I want you to have those on hand and let's look through them.
Nick (30:32)
those are key factors to really just getting to know that account on the front end. You are at their ministry, so you're seeing their building, you're seeing what's going on on the inside, you are reviewing their social media, you're looking at their policy and procedures, and then you can start advising on certain things like, hey, I didn't notice this being in there. Is this something you might want to consider? We can help you with that. We have a resource library that we can give you access to as being a client of our agency that is there to support you. So
Nick (31:00)
That is step one. Step one is that needs analysis, that's what call it, and it's only understanding what's going on. The next step is actually taking all that information and data that we gathered and putting that into our rating system. For us, that looks different depending on if you're writing with our primary carrier or if you're writing in our special markets line. If you're writing with our primary carrier, it's a upload document into the system, it reviews all the data, fills it in, and then you're given the remainder questions that you needed for that.
Nick (31:30)
If it's my lane, which is that special markets lane, and it's hey, I have all these things, I have all this data on our data worksheet. I've uploaded it into assembly and assembly redacts the information or takes out the information that it needs and fills that in as applicable to the forms. And then you go in and fill that rest of information in. and we then take that information and submit directly to our underwriters or to our carrier. Once we get that back from them, it's now, okay, I've got the information back.
Nick (32:00)
I'm ready to meet again. When's the next best time to meet? It's not just sending a forwarding email with a proposal or a policy or just some half-detailed information. It's saying, I've already driven to your ministry once, but I'm gonna come again. I wanna be in face-to-face with you again. Back to that relationship factor. We wanna be across the table with you. Continue to get to know us and us get to know you. And let's present this. And sometimes that's where some of the questions might come that.
Nick (32:27)
We never thought to ask because this ministry didn't seem like they would have that exposure. Like, hey, we we're reviewing this and you're not including our summer daycare program. You have what? that usually is because it's hey, it's a church that's dying off, everyone's 60 plus years old, and we would never have thought there's a daycare going on during the summer. because you don't have that age of that congregation. But find out it's a thing they do to support their local community and get people into their church doors is by offering a daycare program. So
Nick (32:57)
So being across from the table from them is where you really start getting to build those relationships. And we have two key points at the very beginning of the onboarding process to get that face-to-face interaction. From there, they let's say they're ready to move forward with our quote. It's great. Thank you so much for letting us know you're ready to move forward. We'll go ahead and now begin that process. This is what it's going to look like. So being transparent in the process, being transparent in the documents are going to need to get signed.
Nick (33:25)
And then also for our agency, it's also being transparent about what's not being included. What are you not ensuring? just make sure you're aware of that as well. And then that's when we say, hey, let's hop on a call tomorrow at 10 a.m. if you have the time. And I'm going to introduce you now to your CSA. This is who's going to be servicing your account. They're a licensed agent just like myself. And they're now going to be the ones that's going to take care of your policy from the day to day. So you're now bringing in that all these touch points on the early stage of the organization's relationship with your agency.
Nick (33:55)
And you're showing a value that you're bringing that others aren't bringing. They might only go out for the proposal. They might only go out to look at the p property. But we're going out those three, we're building those initial points on three different occasions, whether we're going in person or it's online. And then while we're servicing the account, nine days out from your renewal, you'll get an email from your account executive. And account executive at RC is the one that is responsible for reviewing your renewal, seeing is there any data or information that's missing. Hey, you have a new building. Let's talk about adding that to your policy.
Nick (34:24)
you would not believe how frequently that happens in our industry. but there's now that next touch point and it's someone they've been introduced to. And then every year after that it's, hey, I know who my CSA is, so I know who to ask my questions to. I know who my account executive is and I'm going to see the nine days out for my renewal. something a lot of people in agencies say they can't say they do. and that's shown that value and that's what our process is. Every step is intentional about that relationship and knowing who your people are.
Nick (34:53)
And there's been a few times here and there where that's slipped and we've said, Hey, so and so left the agency and somehow you didn't receive the email that they left and introduced into your new one, that is totally our fault. We're so sorry about that. here's what we can do to rectify that situation. And again, that transparency and relationship side is those key drivers.
Joe Ems (35:12)
Yeah. Yeah, that I think having a a good, transparent relationship where you can where you feel comfortable being transparent goes a very, very long way. it sounds like for you guys, a lot of what you do within the organization is focused on creating a strong client experience. How do you use your team, how do you create a consistent, good client cons experience?
Nick (35:21)
Mm-hmm.
Nick (35:35)
Yeah, so I think that's hiring, that's really where it starts, is hiring the right people. and you're given your first ninety days, and if you don't prove yourself to be of that same mindset and personality and something you can handle, at your ninety days, that's when we really start having the hard conversation of whether or not you're the right fit for our company and the desires and motivations of our agency. so we have been very fortunate that we haven't had had those hard conversations on too many occasions. They happen.
Nick (36:03)
But if you're not the right person, you're not fitting into the culture of our agency, and you're not really fitting into the culture of our ministries and nonprofits that we're working with, it's probably something that we need to have a serious conversation about whether or not your time with our agency is done. So that's a huge part of it, hiring your right resources and right team. But also then it's about your culture within your office. the way us as sales agents or customer service agents or account executives treat our clients is gonna go back to how is our company
Nick (36:32)
Our leadership here, our managers treating us. So what is the temptonology R in News relationships? So I am one of our managers here at the agency, it's part of my role. And I get to have the privilege of having five-ish individuals under me, depending on how you count them one. and it's about, hey, Nick. actually, why right before this call, I we were celebrating one of the guys on my team, him and his wife are expecting a baby in the next couple of weeks.
Nick (37:01)
So we had like a little get together with his family and their current young ones and had him here at the office, provide lunch and just celebrated them for a little while. So it's hey Nick, how's that going? How's your wife doing? or there's another guy on my team that has health problems. It's very intentional asking for weekly. What are updates on that? Yeah, I know you had that doctor's appointment last week. and then, hey, once a month it's time for us to go grab lunch. We're gonna go to lunch. Where do you guys want to go this month? Nothing's off the table.
Nick (37:31)
within a reason. I will say that. If you said you wanted to go to like the most expensive steakhouse here in Greenville, we might have another conversation. but it's very intentional, like, hey, we want to be a part of your life, and we wonder what's going on. And that speaks volume to your team members and to your agency's culture internally. And if you're treating your people well, you then feel like you can treat the people well that in front of you because you have stuff overflowing from your excitement and joy and enthusiasm of life.
Nick (38:01)
It's overflowing because of how you're being treated here. That's gonna communicate how you're being treated to an insured. If you've had a bad day, you've lost an account or an account walked away from our agency, or you got off a call that didn't go the way you wanted it to go. It's not, here's what you did wrong, here's what's wrong, here's wrong, you did this wrong, you didn't do this, you didn't do that. It's hey Nick, let's sit down and have a conversation really quick. what were your thought process? What were you thinking? how do you feel like you could change next time or
Nick (38:30)
Hey, if you thought you did everything right, how did you communicate it? And having more of a questioning of conversation, not a questioning of the meaning. if you continue to demean employees or say they're doing something wrong or write them up for everything, that culture is damaged there as well. but also giving people goals and incentives to achieve. that plays a huge part into their excitement. If you write a hundred auto policies this year, you get a three thousand dollar gift card.
Nick (39:00)
so that culture is a huge part of that. and that speaks into how our insured CR agency.
Joe Ems (39:03)
Yeah.
Joe Ems (39:06)
That's awesome. Yeah, I I love that kind of top-down lead by example. And it seems like there's so many places that you have implemented that within the the agency, which is really awesome to see. Now I I know you guys did mention that you are using Sembly. so tell me a little bit about the the fit with Sembly in your processes. I mean and and also how things were before you used Sembly, the problem that you had and and and what it's solving for you guys.
Nick (39:36)
Yeah, so Assembly joined our agency a year and a half, two years ago. Trying to think when yeah, I can't remember when that exact transition happened, but we were in a season of we're filling out accords every day. We're trying to gather all this information. And filling out accords, if you work in the insurance industry, it's probably one of your least favorite things you get to do on a day to day basis. so it's really finding out what is that AI driven or data driven system that's supporting us in completing those.
Joe Ems (39:41)
Yeah, think right about that.
Nick (40:05)
And we reached out to seven different companies, some that were specific to the church industry and some that weren't, but they could do that customization to make it what we were needing it to look like. and we reviewed all of them and narrowed it down to assembly and one other company. and both of you guys gave us the opportunity to get into the system and start using them a little bit. and really through that we learned, hey, there is value in assembly. assembly is filling that gap on AI ingestion.
Nick (40:34)
and data driven key points of filling in those accords. but also I think one thing that made Simbly stand out to our agency during that season is we had just come from a software that there was no customer support. And when I say customer support, I mean agency support to us, to them, when we needed something. And Simbly has been a breath of fresh air in that way. there's a problem, there's a concern, there's a question we have I email you, I email
Nick (41:01)
your general support email. And I get a response that day. I get, hey, this is what we're going to do to fix that. Here's what we're going to do. Here's a timeline on it. we'll let you know once it's live or once it's been fixed. Or hey, we didn't know that was a problem. Thanks for bringing that out. Let's work on that. so I think there's been a lot of value in that. And that's again your support to your clientele. Your support and clientele is your agencies. And that speaks volumes to who you guys are as a company and the heartbeat behind you guys as individuals and where you want to lead the company.
Nick (41:30)
So we really found that assembly was filling that gap. we went from doing back in 2022, we did a project on the return on investments or ROI on individuals' use of time to fill out accords. and you when you really look down to start looking at that data and those numbers, you're saying, Hey, my team member that might get paid X amount every year is taking X amount of time to fill out an accord. That is then costing me how much?
Nick (42:00)
And that's costing how much of their time? Okay. Where else can that money be going? Into our agency, into our clients' relationships, to now bring providing more value to our clientele into our niche market. So we then that's where that really starts spearheading that conversation of AI ingestion. And since we've adapted assembly, we've seen a 75% cut in ROI, our loss on our return on investment based on the time saved for our employees.
Nick (42:26)
And the time that's spent on their hours being used to complete a court applications. and then that's where a year ago we were out in Phoenix for our annual conference for her lightwheel product. And we were able to bring this concept assembly to everyone and had so many questions, so much excitement, because people don't know that's the kind of product out there. And it's not a product that's, it's just sitting docile and it's gonna be what it is, but it's always, hey, we're working on the next best thing. Hey, we're adding
Nick (42:54)
where you can do signatures. We're adding where you can do payments. You we're adding where you can do this. We can wherever that's going and how that's adapting. And I think that's shown a lot of value in the mindset of between you and those others that are there at Assembly.
Joe Ems (43:08)
Well, that's awesome. And I'm very, very happy to hear that you guys have been a fantastic partner and we've loved working with you. And here's the many more years of us working together. But well, I I wanna wrap up here with a few rapid fire questions for you. So I would say the first is what would you say the biggest mean misconception of working within a niche would be?
Nick (43:19)
Lord really.
Nick (43:34)
I think I mentioned earlier, and I'm gonna go back to it, is there's no money in the niche market. Yeah, the a lot of a lot of people I've talked to say, well, if I miss in the niche market, my my dollars aren't gonna happen. I'm not gonna make the premium, I'm not gonna make the commission, I'm not gonna be that X, Y, and Z person that I wanna be. That reality's not there. the reality is when you own a market and you understand that market, that money is gonna come to you and you're gonna be able to build your profile and receive those commissions. Obviously, you should not always be worried about the money and that the
Joe Ems (43:38)
Yeah.
Nick (44:02)
worried about the dollars at the end day, you should be worrying about your client and serving them. But that's obviously we're all people. We care about the bottom line dollars as well. so I think that's one of the biggest things is it's a misconception that there's not money to be made in a niche market.
Joe Ems (44:14)
Awesome. And what would you say one piece of advice is that you have for agents that are looking to break into a niche market?
Nick (44:24)
Be ready and prepared to ask every question and turn over every rock to the carriers and to those partners that you're working with. By asking those questions is where you're gonna start seeing value.
Joe Ems (44:37)
It's awesome. And probably you learn a lot too as you do that over time, I can imagine. And then the last one, what is next for you and for Lightwell?
Nick (44:39)
Yes.
Nick (44:46)
Yeah, so we're in the season right now of rapid growth, which is exciting. we are trying to achieve our largest school ever here at agency. We're right now between b both sides of our agency. So our main carrier and our lane, we just hit almost three million dollars in business this first half first half of the year of new business, which is super exciting and we've never done that before. So thank you. So we're really just seeing that growth and we're hitting it hard and we're going towards it.
Joe Ems (45:05)
Graduates.
Nick (45:12)
so that's exciting, but we're also seeing the new opportunities and ventures that look like with Florida. in taking this same type of business model into the state that right now doesn't have that support from a specific church agency. So really taking that ownership of that market as well and showing, hey, that's the value that we're bringing. We just wrote within the last week and a half, we wrote almost a quarter of a million dollar insurance policy for a ministry.
Nick (45:40)
And are continue to finalize that account. There's value to those things and we're excited to see where that's going and being a partner in that. So the church market is continually growing, which is great and exciting. and we're ready and taking on every opportunity to do that in partnership with our other agencies across the country.
Joe Ems (45:58)
That's amazing. Well, Nick, thank you so much for joining today. I think you are a fantastic guest. I think there's a lot of fantastic information that you've put out there that people can learn not only about how to go pushing into a niche market, but how to structure an agency in a way that is good for not only the people within the organization, but for the people that you end up working with. So really appreciate you joining on. Thank you so much, Nick.
Nick (46:25)
thank you so much for the opportunity to join you guys and we appreciate the partnership we've been able to have with Simbly and it's a partnership that I don't see going away anytime in the near future and I only see it continue to grow as you guys are continuing working to advance your product and we continue to advance our mission here at our agency. So thank you so much so for your time.
Joe Ems (46:40)
Absolutely. And everyone, thank you for listening in. really appreciate you guys as well. And stay tuned for the next episode that we have coming out. Thank you.