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UP TO THE MINUTE is a production of Colorado Radio for Justice (CRJ). It's a weekly snapshot of what’s happening, and what’s on the horizon, in the criminal-legal system in Colorado and beyond, hosted by CRJ's team of system-impacted podcast hosts. CRJ's featured guests / contributors on the show are staff from the Colorado Criminal Justice Reform Coalition (CCJRC). www.radioforjustice.org
UTTM CCJRC Understanding Incarceration
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[00:00:00] Introduction, with CRJ's Trevor Jones
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[00:00:26] Trevor Jones, CRJ: [00:00:00] I am Trevor Jones from Colorado Radio for Justice. This is UP TO THE MINUTE. Earlier this month, Colorado Criminal Justice Reform Coalition hosted an event called, "How Did We Get Here? Understanding Mass Incarceration in Colorado." They called it an interactive education session. Community leaders and organizations gathered to unpack the policies, decisions, and systems that have shaped incarceration in Colorado.
I was there representing Colorado Radio for Justice, and I got to speak with leaders from CCJRC as well as Nathan Eagan, with the Alternate Defense Counsel; Kym Ray, the Denver campaign coordinator for CCJRC; and Aubrey Valencia of the Storytellers Project and Breaking Chains Building Bonds.
Now let's go there together. It's the "Understanding Mass Incarceration" gathering at Colorado Criminal Justice Reform Coalition in November 2025.
[00:01:29] Interview with Christie Donner, Executive Director of CCJRC
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[00:01:29] Trevor Jones, CRJ: This is Trevor Jones with Colorado Radio for Justice, and I'm here with Christie Donner from CCJRC, who has just finished presenting an informative lecture and presentation on the budget process in Colorado, regarding the legislature... And especially in regard to the Department of Corrections and how they request and allocate funds and use those funds that they receive from the state. And Christie, would you like to give a very brief summary of [00:02:00] the main points that you discussed tonight?
[00:02:01] Christie Donner, CCJRC: Sure. So part of what we wanted to do is help people understand like the growth of mass incarceration in Colorado, kinda like how we got here, right?
And as we're now entering this crisis where we are running out of beds in the Department of Corrections, their budget increase is substantial. You know, at a time when the state is in a crisis around their budget and is cutting all over the place. DOC, on October 31st, put in a request for $1.25 billion, which is a $50 million increase from last year.
And so the issues on the table right now are, are we gonna expand prisons or are we gonna do something different? And, and we're gonna have to have that conversation in two different places. It's not gonna be just at the legislature, but we also have to confront and oppose multiple ballot measures that are gonna be voted on by people in November.
That would be increasing sentences and blow up the prison population. We're at this critical crossroads. So part of what we want to be doing is just letting people know, 'cause people in their everyday life don't know that this is going on. And so we just wanted to put some information together and share it and hopefully convince people this is a fight worth fighting with us.
[00:03:12] Trevor Jones, CRJ: Excellent recap. Thank you. And who did you have in the audience tonight?
[00:03:17] Christie Donner, CCJRC: A lot of it is members from the No More Prisons Coalition we've been building and doing a lot of outreach with community organizations and people with lived experience who are gonna care about this. We've got to come together and we've gotta be speaking with one voice and we've gotta get loud.
I think that is one of the big takeaways we hope people leave from tonight, that yeah, there's technically things that people can be doing at the legislature, and lobby this... but the bottom line is we've gotta get louder to prevent us going through a massive expansion in prison beds. I mean like, we're outta beds.
Right, and the population is growing. It's not growing fast. We could be doing things to manage that [00:04:00] population. The governor and the department are doing everything that they can to prevent that, and we have to counter that.
[00:04:07] Trevor Jones, CRJ: Given that you had the "No More Prisons" crew here tonight, what is the intent of the education that we received tonight, and what would you hope we would be able to do with the information that you gave us?
[00:04:18] Christie Donner, CCJRC: As we become more informed, then we can be talking to people in a deeper level. We can help connect dots about how prison funding has impacted higher ed budget, or the K-12 budget. The choices people are gonna be making at the legislature in the budget will affect hundreds of thousands of people's lives.
And we need people out there as messengers sharing the good work, right? That we have to be engaged and involved, and information is power. And so we wanted to just put that together. It's not easy to get to, it's not easily accessible, right? You have to dig and pull it together.
[00:04:55] Trevor Jones, CRJ: It's an amazing thing that you do is drawing the lines between how the function of one part of our government is affecting another part of the, our government and Kyle actually - Kyle Giddings (from CCJRC) - tonight drew a line between clean water for elementary school kids and funding the Department of Correction expansion. And these are the kind of things that people need to know about where their actual tax dollars are going. And what values are being represented by this allocation of their funds.
[00:05:23] Christie Donner, CCJRC: And where their dollars are not going. Because there's only so much money, right? So Colorado has a constitutional requirement for a balanced budget.
We can't run a deficit. We can't like what the Feds can do. We can't do that here, right? So there's only a finite amount of money. So there are choices about what gets money and what doesn't. And DOC has had preferred status for as long as I've been doing this work almost 30 years. And that's to the detriment of K-12 for decades before the constitutional amendment was passed to protect K-12 funding. Then it was higher ed [00:06:00] has been-- the investment in higher ed has gone down by the state substantially, which drives up tuition costs.
It drives, so all the fees 'cause the schools have to stay, the public schools have to generate revenue elsewhere. So it's all gonna be on the backs of students and their parents, right? And then all the way down the line till you get to, oh, by the way, we're gonna be reducing access to dental care for people on Medicaid.
Oh, by the way, did you know we're gonna defund some of the clean water stuff? Oh, by the way, did you know we're gonna cut here? Cut there, cut here, cut there. Because those are choices. Who gets and who doesn't get, and that's where we're at.
[00:06:33] Trevor Jones, CRJ: It is a frightening picture. And... It seems like just in the last several years there's been a pretty rapid change in at least legislative activity, if not a popular opinion on things related to justice and through public services.
And I know there's gonna be surveys and efforts to figure out maybe somewhere how some of this change in the popular opinion has happened
[00:07:01] Why Are "Tough On Crime" Approaches Back?
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[00:07:01] Trevor Jones, CRJ: But would you care to maybe toss out an idea on how things changed so rapidly from just a few years ago, making progressive intelligent reform was a fluid process... to now today where it's, it's a brutal fight.
[00:07:19] Christie Donner, CCJRC: I think it's a complicated question, but I'll tell you what I, I think are three big dynamics: George Floyd and the uproar around the country around that, and the criticism and the critique of law enforcement... and the criminal legal system more broadly, but predominantly on law enforcement. There's been a huge backlash to any of those accountability questions and movements, right?
The Black Lives Matter and others. So I think there's a straight line to the resurgence of the "get tough" - [it's] in response, direct response, to George Floyd. I think the pandemic and the fact that there were a lot of people that were released while crime was going up. [That] [00:08:00] was a convenient thing to link, even though you really can't link them. Because there were places in the country where crime was going up and places where it was going down. So if it was a universal dynamic, you would see it everywhere and you weren't seeing that. But people were trying to make that a really simplistic, whether it was the releases from the pandemic or releases from reform, there's been a lot to say like that's what caused increases in crime. Because people-- it's very convenient,
'cause then you don't ask, actually have to ask the hard questions like why don't people have jobs? Why don't people have housing? Why don't we have any mental health treatment? Why do people live on the streets for decades at a time with their children? Like, why do we live in a world where an economy is not working?
For an awful lot of people, it's much easier to say it's the criminals' fault, right? We always say: people that use drugs didn't invent the drug war. But they get held accountable. So anyway, that I think is a huge part of it. And then the third I think is just blatant political opportunism because crime and punishment has always been a racist dog whistle in this country. And it has always served to box predominantly Democrats into a corner because they don't wanna be soft on crime.
Everyone can remember Willie Horton, or everyone can remember this or that, and they make a lot of political advancement with their agenda. Right? And I feel like with the federal backdrop and the resurgence of the "get tough" and the resurgence of authoritarianism and the resurgence of all of this white nationalist rhetoric and agenda... the "get tough on crime" narrative is made for that.
And so I think there's a lot of dynamics in recent years, that has helped us get to where we are now.
[00:09:53] Hope for Change: Physics & Legislation
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[00:09:53] Trevor Jones, CRJ: So the picture can seem bleak, but you have dealt with this, you have fought for [00:10:00] decades in this world, in this, in regards of criminal justice reform and prison-related issues. Having that backdrop of insight and wisdom and experience, do you have hope for making effective change going forward from today?
[00:10:17] Christie Donner, CCJRC: Oh, absolutely. I mean, my dad was a physicist, right? And so he would always say that change is inevitable. That's natural. Stasis is abnormal. So it's dynamic and fluid. So will it happen in my lifetime? How much will it happen in my lifetime?
I don't know. But it's not about-- It's about the long haul, right? And just how we have to have a reinvigoration of our civil rights movements and human rights movements and things like that. Like-- we've been-- this is not new. This is not new, right? Anybody who's ever needed to fight for their rights has had to do it collectively, and that's all we have to do.
We have a vision. Right. We know what promotes, and I mean, "we," the big "we," right? Not the CCJRC we, the big "we." We have to fight for it and we have to come together to do it. It's gonna take a lot of people to do it, but we can do it. Because change is natural.
[00:11:13] Trevor Jones, CRJ: Christie, I've never really heard a comparison between physics and the change of legislative processes.
That was beautifully put. Thank you so much for your time tonight. Yeah. Thank you for your insight. Thank you for all the work you do. And I hope that we get a chance to talk to you soon and stay up to date on the upcoming session moves and ins and outs.
[00:11:33] Christie Donner, CCJRC: Yeah, I'd love to.
[00:11:34] Trevor Jones, CRJ: Thank you so much.
[00:11:35] Christie Donner, CCJRC: Yep, thanks.
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[00:11:36] Trevor Jones, CRJ: That's a quick snapshot of Christie's presentation from the "Understanding Mass Incarceration" gathering. Now let's debrief with some of the other attendees.
[00:11:46] Interview with Nathan Eagan, Alternate Defense Counsel
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[00:11:46] Trevor Jones, CRJ: This is Trevor Jones with Colorado Radio for Justice. I am at the C-C-J-R-C where we have wrapped up the evening having an informative conversation around the DOC prison budget and the budgeting process in the state of [00:12:00] Colorado going forward.
And I'm here with
[00:12:02] Nathan Eagan, Alternative Defense Counsel: Nathan Eagan.
[00:12:04] Trevor Jones, CRJ: Who is a attorney with the Alternate Defense Counsel working post-conviction cases, and he has agreed to interview with me concerning his experiences tonight. So Nathan, what was one of your key takeaways from tonight's presentation?
[00:12:19] Nathan Eagan, Alternative Defense Counsel: First, it was incredibly infuriating hearing the continual growth of DOC'S budget and, especially at the end, ballot initiatives coming down the pike that will increase drastically the number of people who are in prison. So frustration, infuriating. And also I feel like I understand the budget process and how it impacts prison growth in Colorado better, and what the levers are for how to potentially affect that and push back on this continual prison growth.
[00:12:55] Trevor Jones, CRJ: And what is your role in the justice system? Why are you here tonight, and what is it that you hope to do with your career?
[00:13:02] Nathan Eagan, Alternative Defense Counsel: I'm a post-conviction attorney, so I challenge wrongful convictions and excessive sentences. Uh, mostly using 35(c)s, for those familiar with the term, so a lot of ineffective assistance of counsel claims.
Once folks lose at trial, they lose their appeal. They then they get the chance to first bring up the fact that their attorney didn't do a good job at the trial or appellate level, or they were sentenced excessively in a way that's disproportionate their crime. That's the first chance that they have to raise those claims.
So I represent them at that level, along with a defense team of social workers, investigators, paralegals, resource advocates, other experts to help challenge convictions that shouldn't have happened in the first place. Sentences that are much longer than they should have been.
[00:13:47] Trevor Jones, CRJ: That's incredible. I love your work.
I'm very appreciative of your work personally, and I know a lot of our listeners absolutely are as well. Going forward from tonight, what is a key takeaway that you hope to be able to effect or bring some positive [00:14:00] change into?
[00:14:01] Nathan Eagan, Alternative Defense Counsel: I wanna figure out how to help average voters - in particularly suburban Colorado I think - understand the real world harms of supporting measures that increase prison sentences and prison population. I think people are sold a narrative that more prisons, longer sentences, equal more safety. And we know it's not true, but I want to figure out how to explain that in a way that that resonates with people.
I think that's one thing. I think the second thing is trying to figure out creative ways as an attorney - maybe not in my current role - but how other attorneys can force DOC to follow the law. I think there, there have been really important reforms and legislation that CCJRC has helped pass that are not having the intended effect because DOC is allowed to essentially ignore the law, and so there needs to be better accountability there.
I'm curious how lawyers can, can bring that about.
[00:15:02] Interview with Kym Ray, CCJRC
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[00:15:02] Trevor Jones, CRJ: I'm here with...
[00:15:03] Kym Ray, CCJRC: Kym Ray, Denver Campaign Coordinator for CCJRC.
[00:15:08] Trevor Jones, CRJ: And Kym is actually recently coming off of a awesome victory in a well fought campaign over...
[00:15:15] Kym Ray, CCJRC: "Get Real Denver" - so, asking the city to invest in community solutions over additional policing. We got $3.1 million for a community led grant for youth violence interruption.
[00:15:33] Trevor Jones, CRJ: Wonderful. That is a amazing project and I'm very happy for you for making that. As regards this evening, what is a main takeaway that you feel you may have gained hearing the presentation?
[00:15:45] Kym Ray, CCJRC: Um, I think the biggest takeaway for me is like the historical pieces to our Department of Corrections and the long term fights that have been taking place.
[00:15:57] Trevor Jones, CRJ: Having that understanding [00:16:00] and being a part of the C-C-J-R-C, what is the hope that you have for the audience for this evening?
[00:16:05] Kym Ray, CCJRC: C-C-J-R-C has been doing this for over 25 years, and so I hope that folks will, one, understand the historical context, but also recognize, like: we're not stopping. We're going, we're in this.
[00:16:21] Trevor Jones, CRJ: It came up tonight that previous efforts by the C-C-J-R-C have been maybe a little bit quieter, a little bit smoother in that now there might be a impetus and a reason to be a little bit more vocal and work a little bit more intentional, or even louder. Would you maybe speak to that need at the moment?
[00:16:41] Kym Ray, CCJRC: Oh, absolutely. Christie is often like, 'don't let them see you come in,' sort of thing, or kind of operate in stealth. But the space that we're in right now, I think especially when we have so much money and dark money being poured in that we now have to be loud. We have to be overt, and we need to rally community so that way we can have a collective voice to let our government know that the things that they are doing are completely unacceptable.
[00:17:15] Trevor Jones, CRJ: Well said. Kym, thank you so much. I appreciate your insight this evening and once again, congratulations on the recent victory. Thank you for spending some moments with me.
[00:17:23] Interview with Aubrey Valencia, The Storytellers Project
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[00:17:23] Trevor Jones, CRJ: I am Trevor Jones with Colorado for Justice, and I'm here with...
[00:17:30] Aubrey Valencia, Storytellers Project: aubrey Valencia of the Storytellers Project and Breaking Chains Building Bonds.
[00:17:35] Trevor Jones, CRJ: What is it that your organization does?
[00:17:37] Aubrey Valencia, Storytellers Project: So our Breaking Chains Building Bonds program is a family reunification program for formerly incarcerated parents and their children, or children who have been justice involved with their parents. And we've been running now for eight years and have graduated-- we just graduated our 18th cohort of families.
[00:17:58] Trevor Jones, CRJ: That's incredible. [00:18:00] Well, thank you for that work. I know it's very important. I know it's very hard work that you do and, uh, very needed. How did you find out about tonight's event?
[00:18:08] Aubrey Valencia, Storytellers Project: Um, I have worked with the C-C-J-R-C before. I was part of a crime survivors group that passed some legislation. Back in, I wanna say like 2018, 2019, around then? And we're also a transforming safety grantee. Our first, our very first cohort of Breaking Chains Building Bonds was funded by Transforming Safety, and we've been funded by them ever since.
[00:18:33] Trevor Jones, CRJ: That's such a cool story. So, from tonight's presentation, what is one of the main takeaways that you learned or some insight that you gained?
[00:18:41] Aubrey Valencia, Storytellers Project: I stay pretty up to date with the, you know, just the politics around incarceration and what's happening both nationally and at the state level. But seeing like, you know, specific numbers in terms of the DOC budget; prison growth; that kind of thing, it's definitely concerning, right?
I know that the families that I serve, the vast majority of our folks are folks who have struggled with addiction due to childhood trauma that was unresolved and that they did not have the resources to be able to heal from. And can you imagine if they put these millions of dollars towards mental health, substance abuse, recovery?
Housing, jobs? Any of the things that would keep people out of prison in the first place? It'd be amazing.
[00:19:33] Trevor Jones, CRJ: It would be amazing. I believe that there's plenty of evidence - fiscal and social evidence - that would show that redirecting the funds in that regard would probably be way more safe and functional for our society.
However, that's not the way things are functioning.
[00:19:47] The Power of Storytelling
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[00:19:47] Trevor Jones, CRJ: Coming out of tonight's event, what is something that you plan to do in response to the presentation?
[00:19:53] Aubrey Valencia, Storytellers Project: One of the things we do is storytelling. We are the, the storytellers project, and I have given testimony [00:20:00] and been a part of some legislation and I know that the power of storytelling is really what changes hearts and minds. It's not data. And so I'm gonna get my peer leaders, our Breaking Chains Building Bonds peer leaders, trained up to be able to tell their story in really powerful, compelling ways so that we are ready to go to the legislature and share those stories and give that testimony and change those hearts and minds.
[00:20:27] Trevor Jones, CRJ: Incredible. I love that plan. Is there anything else you'd like to add in response to this evening's event?
[00:20:34] Aubrey Valencia, Storytellers Project: I'm just glad that there, there are people who haven't given up on this work 'cause it's hard work and, you know, there's lots of defeats along the way. But incarcerated folks are-- they deserve to be treated like human beings.
They deserve second chances. They deserve to live good, happy, healthy lives with their families, and that's what we try to do both in our direct services as well as in our politics.
[00:21:06] Trevor Jones, CRJ: Aubrey, thank you so much for spending some time with me, and I hope the rest of your evening goes just as good as it seems to have gone so far.
[00:21:14] Wrapping Up, with CRJ's Trevor Jones
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[00:21:14] Trevor Jones, CRJ: Once again, I'm Trevor Jones from Colorado Radio for Justice with Moments and Conversations from the recent event, "How Did We Get Here? Understanding Mass Incarceration in Colorado," hosted by the Criminal Justice Reform Coalition. Thanks for joining us for UP TO THE MINUTE here on Colorado Radio for Justice. [00:22:00]