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How many times have you tried to understand ADHD...and were left feeling more misunderstood? We get it and we're here to help you build a shiny new relationship with ADHD. We are two therapists (David Kessler & Isabelle Richards) who not only work with people with ADHD, but we also have ADHD ourselves and have been where you are. Every other week on Something Shiny, you'll hear (real) vulnerable conversations, truth bombs from the world of psychology, and have WHOA moments that leave you feeling seen, understood, and...dare we say...knowing you are something shiny, just as you are.
Something Shiny: ADHD!
"I've Had ADHD My Whole Life. I Just Didn't Know It Yet."
Drop Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2026
*this episode transcription was auto-generated and might contain errors
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ISABELLE RICHARDS: [00:00:00] Hello, I'm Isabelle, she, her, hers.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): And I'm David, he, him, his.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: And we're two therapists with ADHD who sit down to have some chats about ADHD. We can't promise we'll stay on topic, or be professional, or even remotely mature. But we can promise that you'll end up looking at you or your loved one's beautiful neurodivergent brain in a shiny new way.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: This is not a therapy session. This is Something Shiny.
DAVID KESSLER: I love it. Can this just be the intro of you saying that and me freaking out about how amazing it is?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: So without further ado, welcome to Something Shiny.
DAVID KESSLER: So Afdhel, it's been a, a minute since we last saw each other. Uh, you are incredible. You write for Forbes, you're a co-conspirator you love trying to change the world, doing all these incredible things. And after our last conversation, kinda like side barred a little bit about like, you know, what is ADHD?
DAVID KESSLER: [00:01:00] And, uh, you've had an experience. Is it okay if we just put it on your light plate? Like, tell us about your experience, Afdhel.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): Yes. I'm trying to think of the word, an awakening. So just to, for everyone's benefit, um, I was lucky enough to meet David and Isabellele at the wonderful Neurodiversity Alliance Conference in Denver a few months back.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): Incredible organization supporting kids in high schools and colleges who are neurodiverse. And I went there because I'm researching a documentary about neurodiversity, and I was sitting in the audience watching somebody talk about the, some of the symptoms of people with neurodiversity. I'm going, "Huh, impulsivity, forgetfulness, tendency to start 100 projects at the same time, inattentiveness And there was like this dawning moment where I'm going, "Wait a minute."
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): Yep. "This may not just be an abstract concept that I'm researching. It might actually pertain to myself." [00:02:00] And I started going down a rabbit hole, fell in love with your podcast, interviewed you guys, and all of this led to me getting diagnosed with inattentive ADHD about a month and a half ago. So this is a very fresh conversation we're having, and I wanna say thank you for helping, you know, be one of the snowballs that sent me on this path to doing so.
DAVID KESSLER: Amazing, and welcome. Welcome.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Welcome to study room. Pull up a seat.
DAVID KESSLER: What I'm wondering is, what is it like now knowing, uh- Hmm ... that there's ADHD inattentive? What does it look like when you look back at your life in the context of your career trajectory, in the context of, like-
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): Yeah ...
DAVID KESSLER: uh, your journey? Does it make sense, or does it not make sense?
DAVID KESSLER: Like, what is-- what happens with this?
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): I'd said to my wife, "It's like I've been looking in a blurry mirror all this time, and finally the mirror came into sharp focus," you know? And the thing about ADHD which is really tricky is that it not only scrambles your perception of external reality, it scrambles your perception of yourself.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): And so it's really [00:03:00] hard to notice things about yourself. But now I, you know, I have this frame, hundreds of things about myself fell into place and kind of now totally made sense, you know? And so it's like a identity that was there all along but is now in much sharper focus. And literally every day I have another epiphany where I'm like, "Oh, that's why I do that thing," or, "That's why I think like this," you know?
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): I also celebrate the benefits of what it's brought me, you know? Like I'm somebody who at a very early age I wanted to be a Renaissance man. Remember that terminology? Like, you know, kind of almost Shakespearean. Like I love the idea of people who are scientists and authors and did archery or whatever the hell they did back in the 1500s.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): And and, you know, throughout my life I'm somebody who has been drawn to explore lots of different types of creativity, you know, uh, [00:04:00] and storytelling. I've written books of poetry, books of fiction, screenplays, directed documentary films. Last year I recorded an entire music album. And I realize now that the reason I could do that was because I had hyperfocus.
DAVID KESSLER: Mm-hmm.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): I could sit there and really then drill into something and, like, just, you know... I, I, in this room here in LA, I wrote, produced, and sang on an entire album last year.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: What?
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): Yes. That's so cool. I did it every weekend. Every weekend my poor m- wife would have to look over and see me kind of, you know, learning how to sing or learning how to play an instrument very badly here.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): But it was, like, one of those creative projects where I just said, "I'm going to do it." And you can listen to it on Spotify now. It's under the artist name Saint Royale. And now I look back and go, "Oh, my neurodiversity helped me do that." So I'm [00:05:00] realizing that a lot of the things I've been successful at have been as a result of having the, the gifts that neurodiversity bring me and, and that's been a really wonderful thing to learn.
DAVID KESSLER: I love what you're saying. I- Oh my gosh ... like, like, like people can't see, right? Mm-hmm. This, this is just gonna be a podcast. They can't see us. Like, Isabelle and I are like bobbleheads as you're talking. Like, both of our heads are just like, like bobbing up and down, like incessantly. Yeah.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh my gosh, yes.
DAVID KESSLER: Because it's like, it's like there is this part about getting bored with stuff in life, and l- wanting to do more, and wanting to find more complexity, and not wanting to do the same thing. And, like, we have so many different words for what that looks like in society, like Renaissance man or, like, a jack-of-all-trades, and it's, like, all these words, like, speak to somebody who likes lots of different challenges, right?
DAVID KESSLER: Yeah. And, and you, and we can either see ourselves as, like, how come, how come I'm not able to stick with things? Why can't I, why can't I be like everyone else and do one thing forever? How come I get bored? And that can, like, be this internal message that doesn't make sense. [00:06:00] And then all of a sudden, if I'm hearing you right, it's like having this explanation un- you can understand why.
DAVID KESSLER: Why, why you haven't been content with one thing, and also, y- why you're here to try to make change in the world. It's like, it's like you're an artist, you're a poet, you're a singer, you're wearing a hat that says, "Make waves, not war." I mean, like-
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I
DAVID KESSLER: know ... it's incredible. I, I love hearing what you're saying.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh my gosh.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): Even at my work, like, I work at the intersection of business and s- philanthropy and social impact and innovation- And even the intersectionality I realize now is a function of my neurodiversity. I'm attracted to people who are doing really interesting things. I, as I, as you mentioned, I, you know, I write for Forbes.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): I was privileged to profile you guys. I've written 500 Forbes articles since 2018, right? And so that's, that is... Now when I look back and I go, that was slightly ridiculous [00:07:00] because my brain is attracted to meeting people like you guys who are doing really innovative things. I, I love having conversations with folks who light up my brain and, you know, it's almost like getting a PhD in a different topic each time I have a conversation And that's where I found a way to channel that curiosity into productivity.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): And I think that's the other flip side of, of what I'm realizing now is that if I can... Y- you know, I remember in your podcast you guys talked a little about accommodations and how people make accommodations unconsciously in order to best serve their brain. And I realized that in certain parts of my life I've made accommodations which work really, really well.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): And now the journey is to say, "Well, how can I reapply that, that model," I call it the four Ps, "into all aspects of my life so that I can operate at that level of, of, um, you know, engagement and productivity across the [00:08:00] board as well?"
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Whoa. Okay, I have to ask what the four Ps are. Yeah. And really quickly- Yeah
ISABELLE RICHARDS: because, I mean, again, we're sitting here at work so, I mean, so much of what you're saying I'm getting, like, that kind of resonance level goosebumps happening somatically, like, in my being. I think 'cause there's, there's something about when you said to be a Renaissance man, like, my first thought, and this could be really dating me, but I think of Ever After starring Drew Barrymore and Leonardo DiCaprio.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Not Leonardo DiCaprio, Leonardo da Vinci plays a bit part in this ridiculous, completely asynchronous like, it's not an, it's not a historically accurate film, right? It's a Cinderella story just placed historically, roughly, in a made up time. But point is, is, like, there is... That was my first encounter with this, like, with this concept of a being, right?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Who did everything from, like, you know, some of the first understandings of anatomy and dissection, to understanding [00:09:00] the stars, to building machines, to being this incredible artist, to somebody. And I have to say, like, it's so interesting 'cause the moment you said that, and then you listed all the things you do and how, like, I...
ISABELLE RICHARDS: What came into my mind is, like, the way that, and David, the thing you said about, you know, y- you could also in another way interpret it as, "Oh, I don't stick to things," or, "Because I'm not a sledgehammer, I don't, like, stay, stay in one thing and just focus on that and, like, kind of show up with a lot of, um, continuity," right?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Then we can create all these narratives about what that says about us or what that means about us. Or when we do lose interest in something, what is that saying about me as a being that, like, I was so about this, like, a week ago. I mean, I'm looking at my closet of crafts that went there to die and like going, "Well, what does that say about me?"
ISABELLE RICHARDS: My closet right here of, of all the things that I, I was really into it. I learned how to do, and then once I learned how to do it, I was like, "Okay, I'm [00:10:00] done. Moving on And what I think about is like that the continuity is actually your being. Like, ADHD as identity as part of your being, like there is a continuity, there is a thread, and it is you.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yes. Okay. And it is... I don't know. I just got so excited thinking about like how you embracing yourself as like the hub of this is part of like, I don't know, some, some really cool shift.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): Yeah. Well, that's actually the first P, and I, and I'll explain the four Ps.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yes, please. Yes.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): Purpose, priorities, process, and people, right?
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): So I've written books about purpose,
DAVID KESSLER: about finding your purpose, right?
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): This is the last one that came out in November. This is the guide to f- to finding your personal purpose.
DAVID KESSLER: Good Is, Is the New Cool: Guide to Personal Purpose.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh my gosh, I adore this. Oh, signed up the color scheme alone.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): Thank you very much.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I wish people could see the color scheme is mwah. [00:11:00]
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): And so that's where me and my wonderful business partner and writing partner, Bobby, we spent seven years writing this book about how you can find your purpose, because it's the most complicated topic, right? I won't go into all of it, but it, it says what are, you know- If you can find your purpose and create a s- a vision for your life, it's like finding a direction.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): Purpose isn't a destination, it's a direction, right? And so eight years ago when I did this work, my purpose was to be a speaker, a writer, and a consultant. And that there were three parts of me all talking about this idea of purpose and business, how business could be a force for good. And that clarity and focus was tremendously helpful and powered me to some incredible success over the last eight years, 'cause it gave me the vessels to focus my energy on.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): I would write for Forbes and stories and find stories with people. I put those stories into my [00:12:00] keynote speeches, and those keynote speeches I would give them when I was consulting for major Fortune 500 companies. It was like this beautiful engine that just worked powerfully.
DAVID KESSLER: In, in the way you're talking about purpose in this way, you're also talking about, like, an internal structure.
DAVID KESSLER: Like, knowing what's next or what you're gonna do with something next. And it gives you a, I don't, I don't wanna say drive, but it gives you a direction.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): It's an identity, right? Like, who are you?
DAVID KESSLER: Mm-hmm.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): Right? At a certain point, okay, I'm a writer, speaker, consultant. Worked like gangbusters. Now I'm shifting, and I wanna be a, a writer, producer, director.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): Like, I wanna make stories. I want to actually be on set with cameras and, you know. I realized at age 52 that I, I wanna make stuff. I don't wanna just consult on stuff, right? So now I have a new set of vessels to which I need to think about pivoting to. So the first step is going, okay, who are you Afdhel Aziz as a person?
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): You've gone from [00:13:00] this person, you know, advisor to Fortune 500 companies, to this person who is an artist and a creative and a person who makes what we call stories that fill the hope gap. That's, that's the vision for Good Is The New Cool, the creative studio I run. Okay, so that's the first step. The next is there's a thousand different things I could do, right?
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): Mm-hmm. And I joke, you know, the movie Everything Everywhere All at Once, great movie Sh- shit strategy after great, great movie, but terrible strategic approach where I was just like, "I wanna do everything everywhere all at once," you know? And so from there it's like, okay, well, in order to achieve these, this purpose, here are the, the projects and the prioritizing of the project, which is, I, I must admit, the hardest thing that I'm still trying to figure out.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): How to decide where to spend my time, what, in what sequence to do these things. Still haven't figured that part out. [00:14:00] The next bit is the process bit, which is, okay, if I can put into place these processes that are automated, um, that's the most powerful way to harness my creative energy and my curiosity.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): So going back to Forbes, this is a perfect process where I did this with you guys. I had one conversation with you guys, and I now have a process where the team turns it into a Forbes article three weeks later. Like, I don't need to do anything. Oh. All I just have to do is have this one conversation- Wow
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): and by now I have a process and the people who know what to do with that content.
DAVID KESSLER: So your process is an accommodation.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): Is an accommodation.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like out- it's like outsourcing, but it's also reducing the steps, the transitions, the load on you so that you're actually only doing maybe the part that sparks you up.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): Everybody else is doing the parts that spark them up, right? And w- that's, that's another thing, right? You have to [00:15:00] find people who will get really excited with laying out an article or finding the imagery, but none of which really I care about that much. I care about finding an amazing per- person and having an incredible conversation with them.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): Everything else, I have now have wonderful people. I have processes and people which allow me to do that, which is how I've written 500 articles in, you know, since 2018.
DAVID KESSLER: I love that you just said that because, like, when you said, "I've written 500 articles," it's like my, my brain exploded. That's so... A- and as you described the process and who's involved and how many people with complimentary skills are involved and how, how this is a team approach, all of a sudden it's like, oh, this makes sense.
DAVID KESSLER: You focus on the part that you really love, they focus on the part that they really love, and you guys make incredible stuff. Oh, like how simple. And it's like at the same time, so incredibly complex- Yeah. Yeah ... and incredible to, to have that kind of team and to build
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): that kind of synergy. By the way, I stole an idea I heard you guys talk about on stage, which was to give an instruction manual [00:16:00] to my team about how best to interact with me, and I did that And after my diagnosis, I was like, "Guys, some news.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): Some of you may have already guessed this, but I have inattentive ADHD. So here's some little tips of when you're talking. Like, don't overload me with more than three pieces of information at one time 'cause my brain just scrambles. I, I cannot focus on it. Drip-feed things to me, you know. Do it at these times, like from 5:00 AM to 7:00 AM I'm in creative time, I'm in hyperfocus, so don't hit me with anything during that time.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): It is the most valuable, precious time I have. So please talk to me from this time to this time onwards."
DAVID KESSLER: This is metacognitive awareness. This is thinking about thinking, like knowing what you need and, and sharing that with other people. It can be-- I think other people don't do this 'cause they're worried about the judgment other people will have, and I think there's a really effective part of, uh, of being a real person when you can do that.
DAVID KESSLER: Uh, [00:17:00] I, I gotta, I gotta ask you this one question 'cause I don't know how, how long we're gonna have, and I wanna talk with you forever. So you're an adult and you're a successful adult, and you do lots of really incredible things, right? Did it even matter getting the identification of ADHD? Th- like, is this helpful at all?
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): It's helpful because on a macro and micro level, I can now start to make adjustments, right? So a macro level adjustment is saying, "Okay, I have these 12 different projects in different states of evolution. I owe it to my business partner and my team to be really, really ruthless about priorities to help them help me."
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): Even though my dopamine brain is like, "Hey, let's just do all of them at the same time," I now realize that is a failing and, and so I'm becoming a lot more intentional about saying, "Okay, I gotta finish these three things first, and then I get to work on these three things, and then I get to work on these three things," right?
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): So [00:18:00] on a macro level, I think that's a lot more helpful for me as an entrepreneur to help guide my team.
DAVID KESSLER: It gave you breaks. It, it made you look at your process and look at your, your vulnerabilities or where you could have vulnerabilities in a different way. And instead of trying to manage it differently, it sounds like you just could accept it differently.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): I could accept it differently. Here's another thing. Uh, I was co-diagnosed with anxiety at the same time. And as you guys know, that is a potent cocktail to have, right? Mm-hmm.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh, yes, welcome to the tribe.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): And so, for example, as an entrepreneur, you know, finances are always volatile. You, you never know. You can have a great month, a cr- a terrible month, a great year.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): And so I'd have anxiety about it, which is normal for an entrepreneur, but then the anxiety would fuel the ADHD, meaning that I couldn't focus in on saying, "Well, these are the three most important projects in order to get us to revenue stabilization." And then [00:19:00] it would create more financial volatility, which would then feed my anxiety.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): And then I was stuck in this loop where I could never get out of it because each one, the ADHD fed the anxiety, the anxiety fed the ADHD, and then it's just you're stuck in this stasis. So now understanding that and going, "Oh, okay, how can I break the cycle?" You know, and do it with the help of my team, it finally allows me to get out of this unconscious loop that I've been in for eight years since I started being an entrepreneur.
DAVID KESSLER: It's like Admiral Ackbar, like, "It's a trap." Like, the moment you have, like, the cycle, you're like, "No, I gotta, I gotta stop."
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): These are the projects you're looking for.
DAVID KESSLER: You know
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): what I mean? But,
DAVID KESSLER: but I think that's... It, it's this moment where because you can see it now-
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): Yes ...
DAVID KESSLER: you, you almost can't see it without the understanding.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): The, the metacognition you talked about is I finally have a frame where I can observe my thoughts as I'm having them [00:20:00] and understand and, and have that separation to go, "Oh, I'm doing this because of this And then take evasive action, you know, to kind of like stop ha- that going down that rabbit hole. And then on the micro, which is really where my poor wife has been the accommodation for our domestic life.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): You know, I have teams of people around me who preserve me for myself, but God bless her, you know, she's the one in our domestic life who's like, "Why do we have three internet subscriptions?" And it's like, "Uh, because I forgot to cancel o- when I switched over, I totally forgot to cancel one." And so we've had a completely unnecessary annual subscription.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): And so that's where, God bless her, instead of beating me up, she's like, "I get it." And, and now I'm a lot more open about going to her and going, "I need help. I know I'm not good at this bit. Could you help [00:21:00] me? Could you double-check my work? Could you give me some," I call it adult supervision, "Could you give me some adult supervision just to make sure this thing, I'm not just blindly doing it and accidentally making a mistake that could have, you know, a financial implication for us, or just, just, you know, decrease our quality of life?"
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): So it's changed my relationship with my wife im- immensely as well.
DAVID KESSLER: You're talking about this impacting and changing so many different parts of your life-
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): Yeah ...
DAVID KESSLER: in terms of with your wife, with your business, with your internal identity, with the way that you see the world interact with like people around you.
DAVID KESSLER: And, and I'm, I'm a pretty hyperbolic person when I talk about neurodiversity because I think it's an incredible topic, but am I being hyperbolic when I say like, this insight has fundamentally changed how nice you are to yourself?
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): 100%. I think, you know, the, the concept of giving yourself space for grace was something that I heard you guys talk about in your podcast and, you know, at different conferences, and I, I now [00:22:00] get it.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): I, I now get how Instead of beating yourself up and going, "Oh man, why didn't you predict this thing?" Or, "Why didn't you prioritize this better?" I now accept it and go, I, I couldn't. I, I was missing that ability to do it, and thank God I had people around me who could compliment that and, you know, help me catch things when I didn't do it.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): But literally having that, you know, self-forgiveness practice, uh, uh, one of my wonderful coaches, Kirk Soutter, taught me this. The phrase, which I'll pass on for your listeners is, "I forgive myself for judging myself for doing X." Literally saying it out loud lifts a weight off my shoulders.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): I forgive myself for judging myself for having three internet subscriptions.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): Th- if I fixed it, it won't happen again, but I don't sit there and beat myself up about that. So I, I offer that as a very powerful daily practice I [00:23:00] do.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Wow. Oh my gosh, I, I know we don't have a ton of time, and I'm saying that out loud because every fiber of my being wants to sit down with you for, like, a really long period of time and just listen.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like, I can't stress enough what a... You're, like... This is just so incredible to hear.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): I love what you're doing, and this is why when you said, "Hey, do you wanna come and talk about this journey?" I leapt at the chance. And I've been writing about it and on my LinkedIn profile and sharing it with people. So many people coming out of the woodwork going, "Thank you for doing that," right?
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): Yeah. And saying, um, "I wanna go on this journey." A lot of them are, are scared about medication, which I understand.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm-hmm.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): And my feedback to them is you don't necessarily, may not necessarily need medication. I tried something for a few days, uh, Subec- Subox. I can't even pronounce it. It's a very... It was a non-stimulant kind of medication.
DAVID KESSLER: Strattera?
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): Yes. That's right. That's right. That one. And, [00:24:00] um, I didn't like it. I- it made me feel nauseous and all the rest of it. So I was like, let me just try my four Ps process for a bit. You know, and see if I can make interventions, you know, you know, on a regular basis. I might, might try it again at some point.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): But I think that's the other thing as well. People automatically assume with ADHD, like, oh, you have to have medication. The medication will mess you up, and then you will just feel like a terrible person. And my re- response is no, not necessarily. There just might be other interventions you can take.
DAVID KESSLER: I, like, it's so important because I think so many people feel that this is like something like glasses, where if you have ADHD, you absolutely have to be taking medication or things have to be so different for you, or you're only successful if you take medication.
DAVID KESSLER: And I'm so glad you're talking about the experience, number one, of trying it and not liking it, right? 'Cause that's, that happens to so many people, and of course, because we're ADHD, we think, "Oh, I must have taken it wrong," or on the wrong day, or I didn't eat right, or it's my fault that I didn't do the medication right.
DAVID KESSLER: Like,
ISABELLE RICHARDS: it's
DAVID KESSLER: like
ISABELLE RICHARDS: you just- Yeah, it's another [00:25:00] character flaw that my body does not metabolize- Yeah ... this substance accurate, you know, in a way as predicted. I'm so frustrated. Yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: It's like everyone has these very different needs, but I think on its face level, increased understanding reduces suffering.
DAVID KESSLER: Reduced suffering reduces anxiety. Reduced anxiety reduces ADHD symptomology, right? Like we, we can see a line. And so like when you're like, "I wanna s- like, like work on my four Ps," it's like, oh, structure, accommodations, asking for help, thinking about yourself in a different way like that, that is absolutely im- Like, that absolutely works, but knowing why you're using it and what you're using it for, that's the metacognitive piece that I think p- Like just ha- needing four Ps because it's the way to live and everyone needs four Ps, it's like that's a little different than knowing exactly what these are doing for you and why.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): Yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: And what happens if you don't have them? It's like, thank you, insight.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): I, I wanna give props to Dave Flink, our mutual friend, the wonderful-
DAVID KESSLER: Oh, yeah ...
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): founder of Neurodiversity Alliance. He said [00:26:00] this thing to me. He said, "The way I think about it is this eq- equation, which is accommodations plus community equals self-esteem."
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): I thought that was so profound And the accommodations is the, the things you change in your life. The community is the people around you who help support you to do those changes and understand who you are. That is what leads to self-esteem, and I think that's the simplest equation I found to, to look at this whole thing.
DAVID KESSLER: It's exactly right. And self-esteem is, isn't the belief that you're the best at something, it's that you'll survive.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): Yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: And I think people often think of self-esteem a little differently. Like, they think like, "I need to have high self-esteem. I need to think I'm the best person in the room." It's like, no, you need to believe that if you walk in that room, you're gonna walk out okay.
DAVID KESSLER: That's self-esteem.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): You're gonna be okay. You're gonna be okay, you know? And so, yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: You represent such an important part of a population that is underserved because there's adults that have made it this far, I don't need to do this. And I think who you're speaking for and what you're modeling by talking about this is a very [00:27:00] important community.
DAVID KESSLER: So it's like, oh my God, I think I can't, I can't thank you enough for, for being here and taking the time and-
ISABELLE RICHARDS: We want more. We want more Afdhel.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): All of these epiphanies have happened in the four weeks since I got diagnosed. Give me another four weeks. I'll have a whole new bunch.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I
DAVID KESSLER: know. Oh my gosh, it's so exciting.
DAVID KESSLER: This-- Okay, I wanna... Okay, there's like three things I just wanna spit out really fast.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: One, I keep thinking of the, I think it's Rumi quote where it's like, "A mirror once polished cannot be unpolished." Mm. Like that, that sense of like, like when you've described it, it's like almost like you're seeing things clearly.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: It's not that you're looking at different things, it's that your perception of yourself within the world around you, these relationships. I'm so grateful, Simon, you brought up your wife, not because, you know, you always have to, but because I think that's also a piece that people, so many people especially, we could say it, folks such as yourself, right, who have like, like you've figured a lot of this out and you're not [00:28:00] necessarily coming at this diagnosis from a place of just struggle, right?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: It's like it sounds like it's curiosity and like, wait a minute, this is resonating and huh? You know? Like, and of course there's, you know, I'm not trying to minimize any of the pain there, but I, I do love how you named, right, like that there's certain areas in your life where you have like a team of people, or you have like a whole structure and a whole rhythm and setup going.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like I think about people coming, going from like high school to college, or from college to the working world, or from a certain job to another job, or switching from a job to being entrepreneurs getting, you know, shacked up, living with somebody, procreating or adopting, you know, like all those like big life transitions as you encounter them, if you do choose, I say choose as in you should hopefully always have a choice in this.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: It's like we will look at ourselves on this like one [00:29:00] line, you know, almost, and then we hit that curve and we lose a bunch of that, and then we wonder like, "Oh my gosh, I'm an imposter. It's always been not me. You know? Like, it was luck. It was just chance." And when you named your wife, what I thought about is like the, like the unsung heroes of the people around us who know us and love us and like already see us clearly in a way before we can, and what it means for our reality and their reality to sync up relationally, what it means for us to know...
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like when you say like, "Oh, now I can ask." Now it's like an open dialogue we're having about this. I'm recognizing, wow, one person might not be able to take the place of a team of people.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): The amount of clarity it's brought into our marriage because I'm no longer trying to do things in the interest of being a good husband, which I suck at.
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): And I'm like, "But I'm a feminist. I wanna do the dishes. I wanna do the laundry." [00:30:00] And she's like, "But you're terrible at it. You cannot focus on it. Why don't you do this stuff instead? Why don't you take out the trash? Why don't you empty the dishwasher?" That recalibration to go, "Oh, I can still be a positive force in our domestic life, but now I'm focused on things where I can excel and are within my boundaries."
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): Just that little shift Is profound
DAVID KESSLER: It's being seen
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): It is. I, I genuinely feel like... And by the way, I, I have nephews who are ADHD, you know? And so when I share them with them, the articles I've written, they're like, "Oh my God, I'm like this, too." And so it's, my being seen is now having a ripple effect of other people being seen and, and de-stigmatizing it, right?
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): And, and that's why I don't feel any shame or guilt. People are like, "That's very brave of you to talk about it," but I'm like, "That's my job as a writer, is to experience life and share it with people, and this is just the latest thing I'm experiencing." And so it's my, it's my, part of my [00:31:00] purpose to share that story with people in the hopes that it will also lead them on their own journey
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mic drop.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mic drop
DAVID KESSLER: Thank you so much
AFDHEL AZIZ (GUEST): You're welcome, guys. Thanks for holding space for all of these conversations. I love this podcast
DAVID KESSLER: Thank you so much for listening. If you ever have that thought where you think, "Hey, I'm nothing," stop. Remember, you're something. Something shiny
ISABELLE RICHARDS: That's right, just as you are. If you like what you heard and you want to hear more free episodes of this podcast, please subscribe, rate, and review anywhere you listen to podcasts.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: We're on Instagram as Something Shiny Podcast, and if you're looking for more information, useful links, definitions, visuals, everything we can think of and more is on our website at somethingshinypodcast.com, and it's all free. Thank you so much for listening, and we'll see you in two weeks