086 | Andrew Friedman | Community Education in Bartending | Industry Spirits, Seattle WA

Show Notes

Episode Deep-Dive Analysis Available at maffeodrinks.com 

In this episode of the Maffeo Drinks Podcast, I continue the conversation with Andrew Friedman, an ex-bar Owner (Liberty, Seattle, WA) and the brand builder behind Industry Spirits.

Andrew shares his journey from bar owner to brand owner, highlighting the importance of community, education, and strategic planning in the drinks industry.

The discussion delves into the challenges and rewards of creating a bartender-owned brand, the nuances of marketing and sales strategies, and the decision-making process behind scaling a business organically versus aiming for a large-scale buyout.

This episode, which includes anecdotes about industry dynamics and practical advice for aspiring brand creators, underscores the value of thoughtful growth and collaborative success in the beverage industry.

Time Stamps

00:00 Welcome to the Maffeo Drinks Podcast

00:26 The Value of Listener Feedback

01:37 Training and Collaboration in the Bar Industry

03:16 Challenges and Realities of Brand Promotion

05:44 From Bar Owner to Brand Owner

07:56 Building a Bartender-Owned Brand

09:09 Strategies for Brand Relevance

27:59 The Importance of Legacy and Scale

35:26 Wrapping Up and Contact Information

About The Host: Chris Maffeo

About The Guest: Andrew Friedman

Interested in Group Subscriptions, Keynote Presentations or Advisory? You can get in touch at [e-mail] or find out more at maffeodrinks.com 

Creators and Guests

Host

Chris Maffeo

Drinks Leadership Advisor | Bridging Bottom-Up Reality & Top-Down Expectations

Guest

Andrew Friedman

Founder | Industry Spirits | Ex-owner Liberty Bar Seattle

What is MAFFEO DRINKS?

The MAFFEO DRINKS Podcast is a leading drinks industry podcast delivering frontline insights for drinks leadership.

For founders, directors, distributor MDs, and hospitality leaders navigating the tension between bottom-up reality and top-down expectations.

20+ years building brands across 30+ markets. Each episode features drinks builders: founders, distributors, commercial directors, sharing how the drinks industry actually works. Not the conference version. Honest conversations.

Insights come from sitting at the bar.

Beyond episodes: advisory for leadership teams, subscription with episode deep dives and principles to navigate your own reality.

Beer, wine, spirits, Low and non-alcoholic.

Bottom-up Insights & Episode Deep Dives at https://maffeodrinks.com

Welcome to the Mafia Drinks
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episode transcripts.
Now let's dive into today's

episode.
You make mistakes, but you have

to figure out what does that
next?

What does that next 10 years
look like?

And for you, I love that this is
the the process because not only

are you doing something great
for yourself in your family, but

how many people listen to this?
How many people get a lot out of

there.
That's why I imagine you're

listeners are growing, because
you provide a great value.

Yeah, yeah.
The podcast is not a a money

making machine.
It's a money eroding machine.

But in a way, like the biggest
gift for me, for example,

talking to me is those messages
that I get randomly on Instagram

or LinkedIn, you know, people
saying like, Hey, dude, you

know, I've got so much, so much
value.

I mean, you, you were one of
those, you know, like when, when

you get people that, you know,
gain value out of these things

and spend the time, because it
takes time to, to write a

message, You don't do it.
It's not like a 2 minute thing,

even if it's just like, hey,
love what you're doing, keep it

up.
You know, it's maybe maybe I get

that message on one of those
down days that I'm like, should

I continue doing this podcast
kind of thing?

And then maybe I get your
message, you know, randomly when

I wake up in the morning and
that keeps me going, you know,

So it's because.
It says there's 10 people that

steal it that don't say.
It you were saying, like the for

example, that training kind of
element know, I mean, I, I know

what you were saying.
So you would doing trainings for

the city, you know, in a way you
know, like so people even from

other bars could come to your
bar and.

That was a very Seattle thing.
It's it's not just we both each

other spars, but we work
together.

And again, when I people in LA
we talk about this, they'd say,

yeah, we do that too.
And you go there, they're just,

it's very competitive.
New York.

It was more, a lot more working
together.

But still it's so hard to live
in New York that they're

everyone's crawl flying for what
they can get.

But in Seattle, we had the
ability back then before tech

really took off and you could
have a $500 apartment to take

the time to develop ourselves.
So the training part is what

allowed us to have the time to,
instead of have a three-year

captain, to have a five and
seven-year captain in that

context.
So someone could take the time

to learn about.
I helped start the Distillers

Guild here, the bartender Guild
at some point, another I, I kind

of forced myself on their USBG
because the USBG was kind of

like a big brand funnel
bartenders not really resenting

that.
So I ran the United States

bartender skill exactly.
And it's, and eventually I'm not

going to go through the whole
fun story here, but eventually

they made me the VP of
Education, which was really

what, that's the kind of thing I
enjoy doing.

My goal throughout all this was
to make sure bartenders are part

of the equation when the brands
come through and they want to

use me, use my bar to promote
themselves.

We insisted that there was an
element that they had to do more

than just talk about their
product.

I remember 1 specific time, oh
so typical.

There was a young woman who came
in and she worked for a big

branch.
She just graduated from college

marketing degree.
And she came in and this

actually this happened in
Portland and she apologize

happened in Portland and she
came in and she started talking

about the brand stuff and how
it's made having really no idea

about any ask questions.
And Portland, they're really

intellect and nuance stuff.
And I remember the person who's

running the meeting said, hey
shop, you're literally not

telling us anything we don't
already know.

We're going to move on now.
And basically just picked her

out, not to kick her out, but
just moved on the conversation

because there was no interest in
being programmed.

There's no interest in being
talked to.

There's interest in learning.
We generally wanted to learn

about if Sapphire Gin is a
compound gin, how does it work

compared to just?
Pick.

Gin du jour, London gin du jour
where it's all made.

They put the botanicals above
the still and it dripped the

botanicals off steam and it
drips in and that people want to

know the difference of how
regime was made back then.

I think it probably still do.
I haven't done in a while, but

we wanted to know this.
We want to know about different

Nashville's.
We really want to know about how

successful whiskey company might
have 10 Nashville's and I'm not

saying the rest of the country
didn't have this, but I'm just

saying it was it was a special
Northwest Seattle, Portland.

It was just a special interest
beyond brands loyalty, beyond

brand indoctrination that we
just didn't see anywhere else.

The brands won in the end.
In the end, you fly enough

people out to see the the
Hacienda in Mexico.

Eventually they stop selling the
stuff that we loved and you

start to see those bars.
And that's why I knew we lost is

when we start to see Patrone
everywhere.

There's nothing wrong with with
Patrone.

It's really well made tequila.
But why would I spend $50 on a

bottle of Patrone when I can
spend $50.00 and something

that's made by a smaller
Hacienda where they're steaming

their agaves and they're just so
careful about the work?

That's what we used to talk
about.

That's what we taught people.
That's what was important for

us.
The interesting thing for me is

like, what made you move on and
decide to launch your own brand?

You know, like where did you see
that opportunity on, you know,

moving from bar owner to brand
owner?

Well, really it was the
education part, that community

part.
Why was that so important?

We had talked about that too
much probably.

But at some point it stopped
being fun because I noticed

again, my best bartenders be
stolen by brands or stolen by

other bars.
I realized I was making a lot of

other people very welcome.
And daughter is lovely, 11 year

old.
And when you own a small bar,

the economics of if you do a
great job, we're selling

$1,000,000 a year.
You know 50 some seat barred.

Well it sounds great right?
Except when you find the

economics is that you earn 7% at
the end of the year.

Rough 7% of $1,000,000 or taps
is $70,000 and at some point you

want more than that be a farmer
and all the great bar do doing

great things every day whereas
walking I was happy Beagle but

some point I realized why am I
helping all these other people

get rich?
Why didn't these presidents of

these companies coming to live
with you, the felt movement Take

Me Out for dinner when I do your
events, your bars are brown

blows up in Seattle blows up
around the country.

And now they had they sell their
brand for hundreds of millions

of dollars.
And I said, what the hell am I

doing?
I resented actually that these

guys I recognized for years
knowingly took advantage of all

our so they could in fact cash
out that Wyden started bringing

it down to sell it.
And so at some point I realized

it's time for my Co workers to
move on to the bar.

They can do the next generation
for liberty and do what they

want.
And I watched friends around me

start their brands, watched them
start with wonderful brands and

I watched them one by one find
more trouble.

So I thought, you know, I'm
going to do I'm going to start a

well.
So industry spirits is a arch

and your own brand.
We're wells brands, your vodka,

gin and even now we're going to
bottle run our we're bottled

here in Seattle.
You get our product from all

over the world.
And at some point it was obvious

that for me to move on, I want
to be one of the people that

works with my community.
But first I wanted to just a

Wells company.
So when I walk into a bar and we

could talk about the 50 best
bars.

Also, this is a fun thing to
discuss, But when you walk into

a bar and say, OK, your well is
brand act.

I'm big corporate brand acts and
I say this is legitimately a

bartender own brand.
Everything we do hire bartenders

and train bartenders how to be
ambassadors.

You train bartenders how to be
salespeople, you train them how

to, in effect, work towards
really being able to make

something in that industry, to
move from behind the bar, to

give themselves a career.
And when bartenders hear that,

they, the bar managers, they
say, yeah, so we converted very

quickly, terrific amount of back
bars because we built a better

mousetrap.
We're doing something for

bartenders by bartenders.
Our message.

We'll see.
You wrote some good stuff last

week on LinkedIn.
Vodka is a couple weeks ago is

the 50 best bars.
Why are you going after the 50

best bars?
Everybody's going after the 50

best bars in our city.
There's 20 bards that are

outstanding.
Everybody wants their attention,

but there's another 500 bars
that sell as much and more

outcome.
So I had to wean myself in this

idea of going to those 50 best
bars and saying, hey, you should

serve industry spirits.
It is so much more difficult

though.
Everybody else can make mention

if you're the most attractive
purchasing room, everyone wants

to talk to you, and if you're
one of the 50 best bars,

everybody who's trying to work,
it takes so much more effort to

do that.
So my goal was to get into

everyone of those upper bars.
I'm still working on those 50

best bars.
But Chris, if I had to spend

literally 10 times more effort
to get into RX and then Bar Yi

can just walk in and they'll
take my product because they

appreciate what we're doing, why
am I going to spend all their

time?
It's about who's relevant.

And, you know, imagine like I've
been a marketing guy in my

previous life, previous
corporate life.

No, and I remember myself like,
I mean, I, I hate myself for

having these meetings with the
sales teams bitching about, no,

you shouldn't go into the bar.
You know, like, you know, like

those bars are not premium.
You know, like you should keep

the premiumness of Peroni.
When I was selling Peroni, I

developed myself when I became a
sales guy and then a country

manager.
And then I started to be

responsible for the TNL and then
all of a sudden it was like, you

know what, that, that, that
container that I can send, I can

send it, you know, like that's
making my monthly objective and.

Do you remember that?
Do you remember when you came up

with that idea that the ones
everyone wants to get or the

hardest ones to get and the
least value to me because

someone else is going to try and
take that spot from you

anywhere?
Yeah, I, I remember that when I

was, I was responsible for a
European country and I remember

I rolled out a new way of
working with the sales team for

the entree sales team, you know,
the CRM system and and so on.

And I remember that there was
thesis that we had to do some

visits to visit some bars and
there was a bar that in, in one

month got 27 visits.
There's some bars that don't get

visited and this bar is getting
27 visits, you know, and it's

like, you know, are you joking
or you're serious?

You know, like, what are you
doing there?

You know you're going there for
coffee, trying to to talk to the

owner.
They bounce you.

You know the owner.
Pretend he's not the owner.

Is that the question that Chris,
you asked your, your sales

people is why do you want to be
#28 what do you think you're

going to be able to do as #20
that the 1st 27?

And the The thing is that, you
know, there isn't there is a bar

next door that is piggy bagging
on on that bar that is very

successful and then should go in
there for lunch and coffee and

you can make as much money
because nobody's basically going

there, you know, and it's as
much relevant and probably even

more relevant for that
positioning that you have with

your brand or that occasion.
What is very interesting for me

like that the fact that, you
know, you were not thinking

about like a fancy brands and
you were talking about the well,

the speed rack.
It's something like a nobody,

nobody's seen that, you know, is
the biggest opportunity for

volume.
It seemed to me crazy that no

one had cared to go after the
number one product in Target in

terms of volume and price and
and just I'm stop price.

But in terms of volume and cost
to the bar, a bars can spend

more on their well easily than
they will on their next level of

premium gin or premium vodka.
I guarantee you at most parts

spend more money on well X and
they do on Grey Goose or they do

on Sapphire.
Most of them do.

Same with when it was Peroni.
If you're selling, trying to

sell Peroni, that category is
very full.

So even if you get it in that
great part, even if you're

person 28, you finally get it on
the tap there, someone's going

to pay them $500.00 or £500 or
€500 or whatever it is 2 days

later to take it off and replace
it.

Yeah, place or the place next
door.

They're going to keep it on
forever for two reasons 1, you

sold it to them and they, they
felt it fit in their bar.

They wanted to work with you and
here in the States that all

these people want to do, those
50 best partners because they

grew up in a world where they
read those awards every year.

And they said, those are the
bars I want to work with, the

eagle part of these.
They can go back to the salesman

and say, I've got it into Bar X.
Yeah.

And the sales manager is like
that widget.

It's like the Van Winkle story I
told where I'm so happy to have

this experience with this top
bar, this top product.

But my sales manager is going to
say to me, you spent how much

time trying to get into that
great bar, but where are your

other 10 sailors you're supposed
to have the time you spent

trying to get to the great bar
took so much more time, effort

and energy and money because
they look to see where you spend

their money.
It's it doesn't pay out.

And that's the kind of thing
that hopefully people will learn

is how you spend your effort and
energy results in your future.

Your future is trying to please
a bar manager who gets a lot of

press.
Yeah, bar manager gets a lot of

presses and expect you to treat
them like everybody else, reach

them, and a bar next door simply
wants you to come in and show

them some attention and care.
And it's a, it's a, it's a much

easier sale and it's a longer
term.

I think there's a couple of
points there because one, one

point is the elements of, you
know, why are you doing that?

You know, because if you're
clear on why you're doing that,

there's nothing wrong with it.
Like I remember when I was a

sales guy in Rome, you know,
there used to be at this club

called Goa, there was a famous
DJ, John Catalino.

And I remember like I was
selling Internet advertising

back then with my colleagues.
It was a crazy project because

it was 2001.
It was basically like Facebook

pages for bars and restaurants,
but Facebook didn't exist.

So it was like, it was crazy.
I mean people dear, how do your.

Time.
You know, my, my clients didn't

have an e-mail address and I was
selling them Internet

advertising and, and Internet
pages and, you know, imagine

they had no idea they were
confusing websites with e-mail

addresses.
It was crazy time, you know,

sounds like prehistory.
But the interesting thing was

that we had made a demo
presentation for each typology

of outlet.
You know, that we had a

pizzeria, we had the fancy bar,
we had the club and so on.

And then we had the demo page.
But it was with the real

customers.
It wasn't like a dummy page.

It was a real page.
So when I when I was going to

clubs to do the presentation,
then I, I was coming and then

this is what you will get.
And then there was this picture

of Goa, this club, there was the
hottest club in Rome back then.

And it was like, OK, but that's
a dummy page now.

Like that's not your client.
I said, of course it's my

client.
It's like, come on, you know, do

you want me to call Giancadino?
And I was like, call him.

And then they were calling.
I was like, I'm sitting with

this guy.
What's your name again?

You know, I was like, yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm, I'm their client.
And their, their face was

shocked.
No, but the thing for me was

that, I mean, they were paying
the smallest fee possible, but

for us it was just like to get
the foot in the door into that

element of those other clubs,
you know.

So we had a clear back back
then.

I mean, I was 21.
I had no idea that I had a clear

strategy like looking in the in
the.

In the.
Looking looking back, I realized

I was very smart back then with
my colleagues.

But at that time like you, we
didn't expect, OK, we're going

to make money with that club.
Is it was like by saying that we

are with them, we are going to
win other relevant outlets that

otherwise wouldn't do it, you
know.

But The thing is that it was
about relevance.

It wasn't about cold factor.
So the second point I want to

come across is that I want to
explain is that there is this

element of this pyramid.
We have been trained on

marketing books and stuff about
this pyramid spillover effect,

the champagne Tower.
But it doesn't work like that in

reality.
You know, it's not the 50 best

bar that have the spillover
effect.

It's the fact that if you are in
the relevant 50 best bar, but

it's not about the fact that
it's A50 best bar, it's about

the fact that it's relevant.
So if it's a relevant B plus bar

is as important as A50 best or a
class relevant bar.

But if the 50 best bar is not
relevant, it's much better to be

in the B class relevant than in
the A class 50 best bar non

relevant.
Can I tell you what I heard in

that story?
What I heard in that story is

you guys were able to take
advantage of a relevant bar to

promote your own ends, which was
to promote your company.

That is kind of what I'm
discussing that the big, the big

brands do if they take advantage
of because in the end you're

friends with a guy, Goa, you got
him something that hopefully

would work for him, but in the
end, he was the tool that you

used to get everyone else.
Absolutely.

Right.
And the question I always have

for people is that how can your
friend there take advantage of

your using him?
And for me, everything is about

how we can all take advantage of
each other.

I don't know what go on another
the product you had and the

service you've had, but
hopefully they got something

great out of it.
The same way you're able to use

them to get into these other
bars.

So they would say, wow, is it
Goa?

You must do something impressive
because it's Goa.

Praise is impressive.
That's that's what the big

liquor brands figure out if they
get into zig Zag here in

Seattle, if they're a cannon in
Seattle, if there any one of the

big bars in Seattle, that means
everyone else is going to say,

whoa, that must be something.
So I know that bartender only

works with quality stuff, but a
lot of times they're, you know,

a broken record about this.
The brands will use that bar as

much as possible, but in the end
does don't really care.

It sounds like you were excited
to help your friend and Goa.

Hopefully he could take
advantage of Internet to grow

his business.
But usually.

Like that?
No, Absolutely.

Absolutely, it has to be an even
kind of thing because in that

sense, for example, it was like
an Internet advertising and

slash kind of like a magazine as
well, you know, a news about

the, the entree.
So for example, in that case we

would give a lot of disability
to them because they would have

like famous DJs go in there and
so on.

Then we would make articles
about it.

So it was like a like an equal
kind of relationship that we

would have done anyway because,
you know, they were like the the

coolest DJs coming to Rome and,
you know, we would have had to

write about them anyway.
But this way at least we could

say that it was a client.
This is the the crucial thing.

And what you raised there about
the bartenders is very

interesting because it's also
the fact that where do you draw

the line about, you know,
working with brands as a

bartender?
Because there is all this thing

about, you know, brand
ambassadors and bartenders being

ambassadors, so to say.
But then nowadays in Instagram

age, so you see some bartenders
having, you know, everyday a

different brand on their page,
you know, And then it's like,

OK, like is it?
And I'm not judging it, but it's

just like it's interesting for
me as a phenomenon that.

You're judging it and it's OK.
I'm not judging in the sense

that, you know, if you have a
strategy around it, it's fine.

But then if you're just doing it
for the sake of like maximizing

your chances, it's like going
into a bar and chatting up all

the possible people at that bar.
You basically end up being, you

know, like the guy that is
trying on on every girl at the

bar.
What you're saying right now is

really what hopefully people can
get out of these conversations

is that if you're going to every
week have another brand

presented on your Instagram, on
your Facebook, on your this

under that TikTok, how about
purpose?

Because where I think it's
negative is when people do that

because brand X will fly you out
to Mexico, will fly you out to

Kentucky, will fly you out to
Italy, will fly you out to here

or there.
You're always the product.

The bartender is the product for
the big brand, brand.

So what we should doing and what
I try to do is train the

bartender to say you are the
important one.

Make sure you get something out
of this.

Make sure that in your context,
you're the goer restaurants or

the club because he's getting
something out of your

relationship.
But the bartender gets nothing

but a free trip.
Little some accolades.

They get to come back and say I
just took this great trip.

Then they go back on the bar to
make the 250 bucks and they live

in their apartments while the
brands makes a billion dollars.

How do we help the bartender
become more than the products

for the big brands, which is
what Industry Spirits is is

hopefully it's training
bartenders to think about the

future and in a way that is
taking.

We can take on big guys if we
simply use our power.

The Mafeo podcast is doing that.
It's training people to think

bigger than just take your trip
to the patrol and Haciendo.

I would say take that trip to
the patrol and Haciendo and part

of the deal is so when they come
back, they have to pay for an

educational seminar for the rest
of your community.

Who wants to come in to learn
about to queue and not run about

patrol, but learn about to queue
or inside the process so they

get better at their job.
That's the part that I like to

see.
In fact, we started a whole

white rainbow business recently
because I want and if my

favorite part down the street is
selling right now at Mystery

Spirits or maybe they don't want
history spirits, they want

something a little higher end.
I just started a business saying

let's make your brand.
Let's make your well be your

brand.
So bar X brand, pocket, bar X

brand gin, bar X brand in rum.
Why not?

Why not?
That's my goal.

And the dream I have is to help
that bar start to make their own

money so they can start to sell
their own product in their

retail stores.
So that's a much larger

discussion of what the effects
of that are.

Yeah.
But I love discussions that get

to the point where you can talk.
Yeah, and all right.

And this is like some thought
that I've been having like for

for a long time about this thing
because there is a trend of bar

owned kind of products.
I I remember I was doing a

training for a bar group in
Milan and by talking to them was

it training about, you know,
brands and how to work with

drinks brands and so on.
And then from the conversation,

it came out that they were
selling loads and loads of a

certain type of gin and then it
was the biggest selling visit.

They were selling wine and then
they were selling this gin, gin

and tonic at the done in a
proper way and so on.

And then I told them I said
like, but that's the brand.

No, that I mean, you are like
Michelin star restaurant.

Does that brand know that you
are doing that?

It's like, no, we don't.
We don't see anybody from them.

There's no agent coming.
There's no brand ambassador

coming.
And I was like, but why are you

doing that?
And then that ignites a

conversation.
And then eventually that owner

that created their own gin.
And when I saw it, it like it

came, there you go.
It came after me.

It wasn't through a clear
conversation with me.

It was like after, but after a
couple of years, I saw that they

had that the gin brand from the
owner.

And then I said like.
Yes.

I was happy about it, you know,
I didn't get anything out of it,

but it was like a like a mental
thing for me.

That's like finally the
training, you know, worked maybe

like months and years after.
Eventually they realize what

they had in in their hands.
That is exactly conversations I

have every day.
Every day I have that

conversation.
That person is a different

thinker.
They for some reason they

decided like most parts that we
were exactly referring to.

Now I'm going to just restate
it.

How I see them is here.
There's a great bar.

They pick a product based on
their quality.

Payoh Club in New York.
When Audrey Saunders picked a

new product, sharp go through
dozens of gins, taste them, have

the people come by and decide
different gins for different

drinks.
So she wouldn't have just one

gin for every gin on her menu.
She would have five different

gins because when she came up
with a new menu, the bar teams

and she would all work together,
figure out which gym works best.

And you could not sell her
anything.

But Peggle Club being with until
it closed from the best part

easily for her best part as an
American.

And she was never able to
monetize how great they were for

herself.
And I love Audrey, good friends

with her.
And I wish that the recognitions

that we're having now, that we
can do it ourselves happened

back then.
Because there should be a Peggle

Club, gym and the big place.
When they decide I'm going to do

it on my own, I don't want the
brands they recognize.

They don't want the brand's
intrusion into their magic, into

their arts.
Bartending and creating drinks

is easily an art.
That's why Michelin started to

give Michelin stars for bars,
because we are creating great

art.
And some big bars, they don't

recognize that.
You get the first step, which

says big brands, leave us alone,
you're not going to use us.

We're going to do a wheat goes
best.

But this next step is, OK, big
bars.

Well, exactly what you're
saying.

That guy's figured out that I'm
selling that much gin.

I'm doing something.
Why am I selling this person's

gin when it's not perfect for
what I'm doing?

Yeah.
And that's where the industry is

at right now, I think because
people are starting to get their

own barrels.
If you go years ago, I helped

the barrel in Kentucky for Cheer
Up Lounge in Portland.

And that barrel was $12,000.
But that we thought that was the

most expensive thing you ever
heard in her lives.

That's barrel right now is Golds
Sport succeeded in $1000.

So it's time for these
conversations to lead to bars

and bar owners and especially
bar managers who often are the

workhorses, the ones that do all
the work.

It's time for them to start
thinking, how can I get

something out of this?
How can I not just be a sideways

to the big brands to make a lot
of money?

Because 10 years later, where
are they?

And even if you have a
successful bar, are you making

up money 10 years later?
10 all the time behind you

Millions of dollars go through
your hands brands making tons of

money on you for what?
And I say to those, but I walk

in a place all I say everyday I
say how can you take advantage

of who you are out just selling
a $9 drink?

What's your next step?
How can we help you and your

step It's.
What is interesting about this

conversation is also the fact
that, you know, it's that the

element of scale with brands
now, because I mean, if we go

back to what we were discussing
before, there is always this

thing about, you know, more,
more, more, more, more.

But in the end, it's not only
about scaling indefinitely.

Now when I talk to brand owners,
you know that it's always like,

how do I scale up?
How do I get to like a hundreds

of thousands of cases now?
But sometimes it's like, but do

you want that?
Maybe you're building a legacy

business.
It's a healthy business that can

feed you and your family for
generations without having a

buyout.
Those people exist.

I've met many of them that they
exist and they just want to have

great brand.
They don't want to make 5000

two, $100 million.
And then there's the other nine

on 10 that say my goal in here
is to build something and create

best well for me and mine.
Do you hopefully if you sell it,

you have a big brand and you
sell it all the people that work

with you to get there get a
chunk of it.

I know there's those people who
want to especially I talked

about other challenges.
That's an important thing.

There's families have done life
untold generations and they

can't imagine selling their
company and when they start

liquor brands, it's the same
eposome.

We're going to build something
for family.

My son or daughters can come in.
We're going to take it over.

Well the the corporation say
we're going to get you 100,200

thousand cases and then we're
going to sell for multiple of 7X

based on gross sales and we're
ready to get to our sale.

We want to sell for 50 a $100
million.

Which one in the end?
Which one in the end?

Chris, I'm asking you if you
could have a brands, beer, wine,

spirits, whatever it is, would
you rather have a brand that you

made good money, you could pass
it on to your to your daughter

or do you want to sell that
brand, stick to 109 Neuros and

then decide what the heck you
want to deal with.

Which one would you choose?
If you could today decide I'm

going to do one of these two,
which one would you choose?

I mean, personally, I will do
the first one to be honest, I

don't want to sound a nice guy,
but I work with so many brands

that reach big, you know, big
scale and then at some point

those brands kind of like fade
away anyway.

So for me, I would much rather
work on on something that

doesn't mean that it stays
niche, but it's working somehow

for the family.
And then it doesn't matter.

Because I've been thinking of
this a lot because reason why I

created Mafia Drinks was that,
you know, my great grandfather

was a whole sitter.
My grandfather was a whole

sitter and.
Then.

The business after 100 years
got, you know, just disappeared.

You know, nobody continued when
I was six years old, my my

grandfather died then nobody
continues.

This is my way of continuing
that legacy.

And sometimes I think about it
and I sell it there.

But my daughter may not want to
do that.

I don't want to fall into the
trap.

Then my daughter must do what I
do.

But then I wouldn't mind if, if
she sells it, then sell it, but

keep it the way with the ethos,
the, the, the legacy and the

approach that it was done for.
And then it, it doesn't matter.

Like, I mean, you can, you can
develop the brand.

And now I'm, I don't want to be
naive and anti corporate or

anything that it depends who,
who you are.

You know, what you want to do.
You know, I, I remember 1 of

this conversation on club.
I was like, I think it was

Allison Park from bread and
whiskey and, and, and she was

talking about like, you know,
the first thing you should

understand is like, what do you
want to do is for, do you want

to do it for the fame or global
domination?

Or do you want to do it for
building a legacy, you know, a

family business that feeds you
and your and your family, You

know, because the, The funny
thing is that sometimes to try

to go faster, you know, I, I
remember my father was, was

always saying this joke.
I don't know if it was a, a real

story from the town or, or if he
made it up, then it was a joke.

But it, there was the priest of
the town in southern Italy and

he had a coach, coachman and on
the, you know, in the carriages

and it, and it was always like
it was starting his journey

saying, coach, man, slow down,
that I'm in a hurry.

If you hurry, you're going to
have an accident, you know, a

wheel, you're going to lose a
wheel on the coach.

And you know, like this.
So like slow down and and for

me, in my experience, when you
do things properly, you go

further.
My mother says why you're racing

to your down.
It's that kind of element that

it's that it's very important to
understand and, and there's no,

I mean, we all different people.
So there's no right thing for

everyone.
I don't know, like what, what,

what would you, what would you
choose in that kind of dilemma?

I've made the choice that I want
to build this brand and sell it.

Part of the reason why the joy
for me is building.

So I want to grow this, sell it.
In the meantime, grow other

brands, start other brands, and
just keep doing that.

Even if I, you know, let's say I
don't know Clue D meter.

What's the chunk of a billion
dollars on Casa Nidos?

Let's say I sold a brain for and
threw out a good #100 million.

I'd like to make $100 million.
I wouldn't go to a beach.

I might come on and see you and
say hi, but I'd come out because

I'm starting something else, you
know, because I, that's what

makes me happy.
That's what wakes me up, and

that's why I want other people
to start detectualizing.

You want to do it because it
makes you happy to think that

your daughter might get a chance
to.

The name will carry on.
And that is the value to you.

And I absolutely love that.
And that is a huge value.

We all have our own reasons to
do it and we're everywhere.

And everyone you talk to, you
will tell you why, what is their

value and what's important to
them.

So to me, it's important growing
things.

To you it's important for a
legacy, and to the next person

they might want to have a brand
that gets them famous.

And, and I think we go back to
the beginning of the

conversation where it, it's
about having a plan, you know,

like I don't, I don't like to do
this like, you know, objectives

and goals and this kind of
thing.

Like it's a gets a little bit
fluffy for me.

But, you know, it's really like
having a clear idea that may

change during the journey.
You know, it could be.

Yeah, yeah.
And it will change.

There's nothing wrong with
changing your mind on things

because the development of
things change, the world

changes, the trends change and
and so on.

Yeah, and life changes.
And then at some point you

realize, OK, like I know that my
daughter doesn't want to do what

I'm doing.
And then I say, you know what,

Like, you know, I get a good
offer and I sell it, and I will

be the one who's selling it.
It doesn't really matter as long

as you do it.
Or a clear plan, so to say, you

know?
I think that's the important

thing we've talked about this
whole thing is to have a clear

plan and the steps to get into a
very clear plan.

And the steps start with being,
in my case, start with work in

the coffee business to get to
all the stuff I'd done.

I'd never imagined I'd be here
to vary no steps.

And that changed throughout the
whole thing.

You've changed throughout your
hog.

Yeah.
I didn't know you did all that

stuff.
That's that's how you died here

today.
Each one of those grooves is

something else interesting.
And at some point to learn, I'm

going to take powers that would
be driven and pushed by the wind

at my back, steal whatever comes
next.

I'm going to choose.
I'm going to spend more time

playing.
And that's where I meant.

Absolutely, absolutely.
I think it's a good wrap up for

this episode.
I want to give you some space to

tell our listeners or where,
where can they find you?

How can they contact you and get
in touch with you?

Absolutely.
I would encourage anyone to

reach out to me.
You can send me an e-mail at

[e-mail].
Industry spirits on Instagram.

I've got yet succeeded in
creating Tik Toks and all that

stuff because same reason that
that it's tough.

It's the next thing I have to
spend my energy where I can, but

I would love to hear from people
they want to think about

starting something that I'm
talking about.

If anything I've said doesn't
sound like just some jerk on

typicating about whatever the
hell he wants to talk about.

I love working with people and
figuring out how they could

start the process.
I just work with somebody to do

a pumpkin rum.
What work?

I don't know.
Will they take it anywhere?

I don't know, but they want to
do a pumpkin flavored rum.

I think it's a it's a great
thing.

So people like to check in the
mystery spirits.com, see what

we're doing.
Feel free to send me a message.

If I'm able to help out 100% I
will because that is the core

job that I have with industry
spirits is besides sell even

vodka, gin and rum and
eventually other stuff is to

work more help them.
If I can't do that, they're not

just lying about everything.
So if you want some help, please

do reach out as much as I can.
Fantastic.

Thanks a lot, Andrew.
It was a it was a great chat.

No, thank you.
Thank you for all the stuff.

You, especially the other
LinkedIn stuff.

I legitimately take notes.
I take notes.

I look down and go, Oh yeah, why
didn't I think of that?

I love that.
So thank you for all you didn't.

Appreciate it, Andrew.
Thanks.

That's all for today's My Third
Drinks podcast.

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