Take It From Me with Sara Chambers

Show Notes

Join Kosta and his guest: Sara Chambers, Fertility Advocate, Influencer and Co-Founder of Privy Clear, an innovative advertising agency dedicated to helping small businesses break through the noise and thrive in the digital world.

Approximately one in eight couples are affected by infertility in the United States.

As Sara documents her own journey with infertility she's haunted by the realization that restrictive laws on reproductive rights in Tennessee could abolish her family's only chance to conceive naturally.

This episode is a candid look at the choices lawmakers are making that impact the safety of all women in the state of Tennessee, and are shaping the future for families in our state.  For the first time in 20 years Tennessee’s infant mortality rate is rising and our health as a state is declining.

Find out more about Sara Chambers and Privy Clear:
https://www.privyclear.com/

Better Together with Kosta Yepifantsev is a product of Morgan Franklin Media and recorded in Cookeville, TN.

This episode of Better Together with Kosta Yepifantsev is made possible by our partners at Cookeville Regional Medical Center and Volunteer State Community College.

Find out more about Cookeville Regional Medical Center:
https://www.crmchealth.org/

Find out more about Volunteer State Community College:
https://www.volstate.edu/campuses/cookeville

What is Better Together with Kosta Yepifantsev?

Better Together with Kosta Yepifantsev is a podcast about business, parenting and living life intentionally. We're here every week to bring you intentional conversations on making your own path to success, challenging the status quo, and finding all the ways we're better. Recorded in Cookeville, TN, Kosta joins guests from all walks of life to bring fresh perspective and start your week with purpose. We're better together.

Kosta Yepifantsev: In 2023, the
average college graduate will

have $40,000 in student loan
debt that will take 20 years to

pay off your education that
should be the stepping stone to

the rest of your life, not the
financial burden holding you

back. That's why our partners at
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have created multiple degree
paths for students to seamlessly

transfer to universities across
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options like Tennessee Promise
and Tennessee reconnect.

Students can focus on their
academic goals without worrying

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for more information on

financial aid programs and how
to apply visit ball state.edu.

Sara Chambers: We're scared of
what we don't understand. And

there's so much that people
don't understand about pregnancy

about infertility about just
reproductive health. That goes

for everyone. I think we all
have things to learn about it

because it's so complicated and
what I said in the beginning

that no pregnancy is the same.

And it's the same with
infertility like no diagnosis is

the same.

Morgan Franklin: Welcome to
Better Together with Kosta

Yepifantsev, a podcast on
parenting business and living

life intentionally. We're here
every week to bring you

thoughtful conversation, making
your own path to success,

challenging the status quo, and
finding all the ways we're

better together. Here's your
host, Kosta Yepifantsev.

Kosta Yepifantsev: Hey y'all,
it's Kosta today I'm here with

my guest, Sara Chambers,
fertility advocate, influencer

and co founder of Privy Clear,
Sara, straight to the point, I

want to talk about what it's
like to be an entrepreneur,

starting their first small
business in a small town, where

you personally have some
differing views from the

majority. You started a tick
tock outlining your fertility

journey about three years ago.

And along that journey. You've
shared information on fertility,

reproductive rights, and what
it's like now living in a state

where abortions are completely
banned. How is your work as an

advocate shaped your journey as
a business owner?

Sara Chambers: So I definitely
do have some pretty different

views from probably I would say,
the majority of people in the

area. And that used to be really
scary, especially as a business

owner. So when Tennessee passed
the total abortion ban, I

reached out to my state
representative to I just had

questions. The law was vague. I
could read it in like 30

seconds. So I had questions. And
it was pretty obvious that it

could bleed into IVF. It could
absolutely restrict that. And

that's something that I've been
saving for for like years now.

Because it's like $30,000. Wow.

So I'm like, Oh, my gosh, I've
been saving for this. And then

what if it goes away? Like, what
do I do? So I reached out to him

with just genuine questions
about, you know, is this going

to affect IVF? Like, are there
things I need to worry about?

Like, just let me know, because
I read the law, and it just

seems very vague. He responded,
and it was the most insensitive

response I've received. And I
felt very guilty and shameful

that I even asked the question,
and then I just thought, I'm

just trying to be a parent.

Like, I'm just out here just
trying to be a mom, you know,

and then I felt anger. So, which
is, you know, never good. So I

was impulsive. And I made a tic
toc with the email response that

he had sent me. And it kind of
blew up and I just spoke about,

you know, my journey with
infertility and how this law

just kind of freaked me out and
freaked people out in the

infertility community. We were
scared. That Tik Tok video ended

up being picked up by Vanity
Fair magazine, The Guardian,

CNN, news outlets all over
Tennessee, it was crazy. And at

this point, like it was really
obvious there was no going back

and people knew who I am. And
they know what I stand for. And

this is a small town. So that
was really, it was really scary.

But it was also really rewarding
and exciting, because for the

first time I heard people
talking about it, I heard people

talking about infertility,
reproductive rights, things that

are really important to me and
things that I think should be

talked about. So people were
learning about IVF and

reproductive healthcare. And
it's really complicated. Like,

it's pretty obvious that no
pregnancy and no infertility

diagnosis is the same. I mean, I
say it's obvious, but a lot of

people don't really know that.

And I didn't know that until I
started my journey with

infertility. Yeah, I don't.

Yeah, there's so much that I
didn't know and there's even

still so much that I don't know
about IVF. So my friend and my

business partner, Hannah, she
actually went through IVF to

conceive her daughter, she's
eight months old now. And so she

was going through it as I was
like, starting to enter the

process and like going over
everything, and there was so

much that I didn't know even in
my like IVF consultation.

There's just so much to it, and
it's so complicated. And I was

just so upset when my state
representative was like judging

me for just asking if I be able
to do IVF?

Kosta Yepifantsev: Why does the
law affect or have the potential

to affect IVF?

Sara Chambers: So when you do
IVF, it's this crazy,

complicated process where they
actually pump you full of drugs

to make you ovulate and produce
molecules with eggs in them. And

then they do this retrieval
where they retrieve the eggs and

create embryos. So then they go
through various processes to see

if those embryos are growing.

And if they will grow, some of
the embryos don't grow, and

nothing happens. And so they're
discarded. So that was what was

in question, because the law was
saying that pregnancy started at

conception. So that's
technically conception, but it's

happening outside of the woman's
body, and

Kosta Yepifantsev: surely
they're going to, like put an

amendment in the law to exclude
IVF. Yeah,

Sara Chambers: so that's what I
was hoping, you know, like,

everyone should be talking about
this, because this is really

scary. So that's what made me
reach out to my state

representative. What did he say?

So he said something along the
lines of it's really confusing

to me that someone that wants to
be a parent is asking me about

abortion rights. And I was like,
What? No, yeah, like emails

online. It's on Vanity Fair.

Kosta Yepifantsev: Why? Okay,
but you weren't asking about

abortion rights. You were asking
about IVF.

Sara Chambers: Exactly. So he
was, is he?

Kosta Yepifantsev: But is he not
a proponent of IVF.

Sara Chambers: So he actually
ended up calling me because the

video blew up. And people were
calling him my father in law was

like, Oh, I'm calling him to
talk to him. Yes. Yeah. Like, we

were mad. And there's so much
emotions that go into

infertility anyway, like, I'm
grieving. Okay. And then for

someone that knows absolutely
nothing about IVF, or, you know,

probably the female reproductive
system at all, is judging me

like this. Yeah, it's tough.

Yeah, no, it's unacceptable.

Yeah. So he actually called me
and gave me this, like long

winded story about someone that
he knew that went through IVF.

And it was just pretty clear
that he didn't know really what

he was talking about. And that's
okay. Like, that's the whole

reason I'm talking about it.

Because this is something that
should be talked about, you

know, now that people are going
to be making laws that could

potentially affect it. And under
his understanding, in the email,

he said that the law could
absolutely affect IVF. So I was

like, spiraling, I'm thinking,
okay, like, I'm not going to be

able to do this,

Kosta Yepifantsev: how long have
you been saving for this

procedure?

Sara Chambers: I would say two
years. Yeah, yeah. And I'll get

more into my journey to it,
there's been so much that we're

gonna have to do if we want to
start a family. So it was really

scary. And I think that he saw
it as the discarding of those

embryos is considered abortion,
even if they are growing, I

don't think he knew all of the
logistics about what goes into

IVF. And a lot of people don't,
and that's okay. But again,

that's why I'm talking about it.

So the phone conversation was
just terrible. I thought there

was going to be a little bit
more empathy. And I didn't get

that I definitely didn't get
that from the email. And so it

was kind of crazy to see it like
picked up everywhere. But again,

then, you know, like, everyone
knew, where I stand on on

reproductive rights. And that
was, that was terrifying, a

little bit I can't

Kosta Yepifantsev: even imagine.

And I especially in such a
charged environment. I mean,

when Dobbs was passed, and, you
know, Roe v. Wade was struck

down, I mean, this community, it
was a very difficult

conversation for anybody. We had
Dr. Kursaal on, and it was very

touch and go, because you just
don't know how people are going

to react. And I mean, I guess
the question that I have is, are

you saying that a majority of
people in this community believe

that IVF is abortion?

Sara Chambers: Yeah. Yeah.

Really? From Oh, yeah.

Kosta Yepifantsev: They call
mine just got blown. That's

crazy. Yeah. What is the I mean,
it's somebody can't have a child

is their argument that they just
shouldn't have children period.

So

Sara Chambers: the argument that
I usually hear is, oh, just you

need to go adopt. And if you
want your own biological child,

exactly. So a lot of people have
liked to make me feel really bad

for wanting my own child, right.

And there's nothing wrong with
that. And for a long time, I

felt a lot of shame about that.

Because I thought, Oh, maybe I
do need to go out there and

adopt. And so we actually looked
into adoption. And it's not

something that's unfamiliar to
me. I have a cousin that's been

adopted an aunt that was in
foster care for over 15 years.

So I was familiar with it to an
extent, but we dove in deeper

and found that one, adoption is
incredibly expensive. It's way

cheaper to do IVF. And it's also
not a guarantee. And there's so

many couples right now trying to
adopt, there's like over 2

million, and there's not even
like 500,000 children that are

waiting to be adopted in foster
care. I think there's like

100,000 So it's really it's like
not easy to adopt. Yeah, so

we've already gone through
everything with infertility, and

I don't want go through another,
like, heartbreaking process of

Oh yeah, we're going to adopt
this child. And then the mom

decides to, you know, keep and
that's great. But I emotionally

and my husband, we can't do
that. Yeah,

Kosta Yepifantsev: well, let's
talk about your journey.

Infertility can feel very
isolating. It's not something we

talk about often. And for better
or worse, it's now getting swept

into the conversation with
reproductive rights and abortion

policy. Would you tell us about
your journey with fertility and

what your family looks like
today? Yeah,

Sara Chambers: so our journey
with infertility is it's crazy.

So basically, we decided that we
wanted to start trying to have a

family pretty early on, like,
right after we got married,

because I've always had a
feeling that our journey to

parenthood was going to be
difficult. I just kind of always

had a feeling. So we start
trying for several months,

nothing happens. I contact my
doctor. I'm like, Hey, like, I'm

not getting pregnant. Like, I
don't know, am I doing something

wrong? Like, what am I what do
we need to do? So I went through

a series of testing, which
people think like, oh, tests,

no, it's like bloodwork at least
once a week. ultrasounds, very

invasive ultrasounds, it's a
lot. And so that was happening

for like, two months. And
everything, all of my test

results were perfect. So I'm
like, why am I not getting

pregnant? Then I went through
four rounds of Clomid, which is

a fertility drug, and it made me
crazy. So I had like constant

headaches, it was just a lot.

And again, like not even talking
about the emotional factor of

everything. So just just really
hard, emotionally and

physically. And again, I'm also
having all of these cycles

monitored while I'm on the
fertility drug, and I'm not

getting pregnant. So there was
one month that they told me I

had two dominant molecules,
which means there's a high

probability of you conceiving
twins, and I was so excited, I

was like, Oh, my gosh, like,
this is it, we're gonna get

pregnant with twins. And like,
I'm just gonna give birth once

and be done, we'll have all the
kids that I want. It's like,

perfect, that didn't happen. So
all of these months go by

insurance covers like barely any
of this. So like, we're paying

1000s of dollars out of pocket.

And I'm still not getting
pregnant. None of the tests are

showing anything. So we're like,
let's look at my husband. You

know, I feel like that's the
obvious thing to do, right. But

there was always a reason for my
doctor to not test my husband,

which now looking back is so
annoying, because male fertility

is so easy to diagnose. It's
like the easiest test. Yeah. And

it's like inexpensive to did he
eventually get tested. So I

demanded that we got referred to
a fertility specialist in

Nashville. And she's the one
when she had all of our records.

She's like, he hasn't been
tested, like no, I've gone

through, basically went through
health basketball

Kosta Yepifantsev: of ones with
him, why would your doctor in

Cookeville not want to test him?

I don't know, do like this
still, my mind is just, it's

going really fast in different
directions. So your doctor, in

Cookeville said that we do not
need to test your husband when

all of your tests are perfect.

And you still can't get
pregnant, the only through line

that I can assume and I mean, I
know that I'm sure probably

people are gonna be like, ah,
you know, hate. And I'm assuming

that he thinks that it couldn't
possibly be his fault, because

he's a man.

Sara Chambers: That's what?

Yeah, I think that there is a
bias that it's usually the

females that have infertility.

And that's the furthest thing
from the truth. It's actually

usually 5050. Like men are just
as likely to be diagnosed with

infertility. Yeah, into
Nashville. Yeah. So we go to

Nashville. And the first thing
our doctor did was she was

absolutely amazing. She tested
him easy tests, like super

inexpensive, and she calls me
and she said, I know why you're

not getting pregnant. And I
literally like something out of

a movie just dropped to the
floor. I knew. She told me that

he had a very low sperm count.

And we had less than a 1% chance
of ever conceiving naturally.

How long ago was this? This was
like two years ago, I guess. So

I can't even explain like the
all of the feelings that I was

feeling in that moment. Because
at the time, my husband didn't

know that, like, this was the
diagnosis too. So I'm like, How

do I tell him he's at work? So
that's when she told me you're

probably going to have to do IVF
I'm gonna refer you to a

reproductive neurologist. So we
can get an official diagnosis

for my husband. So he goes for
his appointment and is diagnosed

with a first visit that he has a
great three Verica seal, which

varicose seals are very common
in men. So a grade three is the

most severe Great America seals.

So that basically means he has a
ruptured vein, cutting off blood

supply. And every I thought this
was really interesting, because

there was a lot of feelings and
emotions on his side as well,

obviously. And he felt really
guilty for a long time to like,

Is there something I could have
done to prevent this? And so his

urologist said something that
just gave us so much relief that

all men's anatomy is designed to
basically fail to cause a Verica

seal like that's how common it
is. Oh, wow. Big cuz of the way

that the blood collects and the
way that it flows and, like

overheats, it's common for veins
to rupture. So repairable. Yeah,

so there is a corrective
surgery. Unfortunately, he has

such a severe grade, where the
vein is completely ruptured,

they have to remove the vein.

And even if we have the
corrective surgery, we'll

probably still have to do IVF
because basically, the damage is

already done. Yeah. So for a lot
of people, they can have the

surgery count is restored, and
they can get pregnant naturally.

Or even do something like IUI,
which is much less expensive

than IVF and less invasive. For
us. It's so up in the air like

that could happen, but probably
not. So we kind of then were

faced with will do we pay for
the surgery, which also was

coded as like a fertility
treatment, even though which is

even crazier, because my husband
had had symptoms of America seal

for like years since he was like
a teenager like in high school.

And he had had ultrasounds
because he had pain. And it was

never diagnosed, it was
misdiagnosed every single time.

So he could have had corrective
surgery years ago, and the

damage could have been reversed.

And we wouldn't be in this
position. But it's something so

not talked about that there's
even bias held among, you know,

medical professionals, which is
crazy. So that's kind of what

really kick started us talking
about our journey. And that's

why people are so shocked that
my husband is also really open

about everything. But you know,
women don't talk about

infertility, men really don't
talk about infertility. Yeah,

again, that shame factor.

Kosta Yepifantsev: One of the
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Allstate has customized options
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I'm learning so much. And I'm
also gaining a perspective that

I guess I just didn't realize
existed to the degree that

you're describing. And I know
Jessica would mind me sharing

but the first time that that
Jessica had gotten pregnant back

in 2012, we had a miscarriage,
she's actually had two

miscarriages, and it was
devastating. But I never felt

any shame to share that story. I
mean, if anything, I was making

sure that people understood you
know, what she was going through

and offer any type of support. I
just I want to ask, and if you

don't feel comfortable sharing,
you know, it's kind of a

vulnerable question. But I know
that you want your biological

child. So, so bad, almost to the
point. And I don't want to put

words in your mouth, but it's
kind of like it has to happen

for you to start the next stage
of your life. Yeah, you know,

and you're kind of stuck without
it happening is that tough

emotion to deal with every
single day? It's

Sara Chambers: been really
tough. I'm at a really weird

point in my life. And so as my
husband, the grieving process

has been really weird. So they
say there's like, what, like

five or seven stages of grief. I
completely agree with that.

Because we went through like
anger, denial, you know, all of

it. And my husband was more
behind in the grief process than

me it took him a little bit
longer to process everything.

And then we kind of realized,
wow, we like really may not have

kids like this really may not
happen. And so we started

feeling that like, what do we do
now? And we were talking about

this the other day, how we've
never envisioned a future

without children, like our
future has always involved

having a family. And it's
something that I've even thought

about since I was a little girl,
like, I'm gonna grow up and have

a family like that's what you
do. So now this future that I've

been thinking about forever is
just, you know, it may not

happen. And part of that is
really terrifying. But I have, I

don't know, I'm really good at
compartmentalizing. So like,

maybe that's it. But I've almost
felt like tranquillity in this

like season of my life. Because
we've just kind of learned to

deal with it, which I think just
takes a really long time because

people will ask me all the time,
like, how are you so comfortable

talking about infertility and
like, how do you continue to

live? And for a long time we
weren't and just kind of one

day, well, not one day, it was
more of like a gradual thing. We

just were able to live again.

And so Now we're kind of in this
phase where like, we're creating

this new future. And it's kind
of exciting because there are no

expectations like, I've started
this business. And you know, my

husband's really excelled in his
career. And so we're just kind

of focusing on other things. And
also our marriage, like our

marriage has never been better,
which is really weird, because

you would think, like
infertility, like this would be

really hard. And it was, but now
it's like, we're just able to

just focus on us and like our
life outside of having children.

And it's been really
transformative. But it's been

really exciting. Yeah.

Kosta Yepifantsev: Whether
someone agrees with the legality

of abortion or not, it doesn't
change the danger, we're putting

all women in being pregnant in
Tennessee can have deadly

complications. And as of
November 2023, there are no

exceptions for fetal anomalies,
or for victims of rape or

incest. For the first time, in
20 years, Tennessee's infant

mortality rate is rising and our
health as a state is declining.

How do we take the politics out
of these issues and see it from

the viewpoint of a woman that
wants to have a family? One

Sara Chambers: of my favorite
quotes is Ignorance breeds fear.

And I wholeheartedly believe
that we're scared of what we

don't understand. And there's so
much that people don't

understand about pregnancy,
about infertility, about just

reproductive health. That goes
for everyone. I think we all

have things to learn about it,
because it's so complicated. And

what I said in the beginning
that No, pregnancy is the same.

And it's the same with
infertility, like no diagnosis

is the same. So when I heard
about, like the law and the

total abortion ban, it's like,
there's no way these legislators

have it figured out to the point
where they can impose this total

abortion ban, but like, I don't
have it figured out and I'm

learning everything about
reproductive health, there's

just no way. So I think for me,
and what I think is just really

important is to have these tough
conversations, and to have

empathy. And so I think that by
having these conversations, and

with talking to people that
believe differently than you, I

think that's how we take the
politics out of it and go back

to just listening and caring
about each other. It's okay, if

we don't agree, but like, let's
talk about why we don't agree.

Like, let's have a conversation,
and let's listen to each other

and go from there. And I think
that's how change happens.

Kosta Yepifantsev: I don't think
that we should rule out

compromise. No, you know, people
are scared of that, I think

absolutely. And I will say that
this is an extremely complex

issue. Like this isn't a
representative democracy issue.

In my opinion, this is not like
an income tax, or, you know,

paying more for property tax.

This is not a decision that is
easy, because it literally

affects the lives. It's a life
and death decision for women.

And that's why when I look at
this on a national stage, and I

see what happens in Ohio, and in
Kansas, and where they put this

vote to the citizens of those
states, a direct democracy, I

think that that is what every
state all 50 states should do

that are the remaining states
who haven't voted. Because it's

so complex. I mean, you're
describing the perception of

doctors, you know, and your
experience with doctors and

their bias. This is a issue that
has to be left to the citizens

of the state to decide. And,
look, there may be states that

say, we don't want abortion. And
we don't want any exceptions,

and we want it to be at
conception, there may be states,

but they still have to decide
and the fact that we're not

letting them decide, and we're
leaving it up to people who I

mean, believe IVF is against the
law. And it's the only way that

somebody who can't have a child
naturally can have a biological

child. I mean, that's in my
opinion, that's just wrong.

Sara Chambers: I agree. And
that's where, you know, the

Ignorance breeds fear. People
think that it's murder, these

embryos that aren't growing, and
there's different like grades of

the embryos where they like rate
them. So one is like, it's

probably going to turn into a
pregnancy. There's something

called a mosaic embryo where
some of the cells are normal.

Some of them are abnormal, and
they're at a higher risk of

miscarriage and abnormalities.

So usually, people aren't going
to spend $30,000 to do IVF and

everything and then transfer a
mosaic embryo that's probably

not going to happen. I wouldn't
do that. I wouldn't want to do

that. Because I want to be a
mom, you know, so some people

choose to freeze all of those
embryos and some people choose

to discard them. We're talking
about like three day old

embryos. They're literally have
less than 100 cells.

Kosta Yepifantsev: Honestly,
just there's so many different

aspects to this law, just the
idea that if a baby dies during

pregnancy, that a mother can't
have that baby removed, which

are no longer viable, they have
to literally give birth. Can you

imagine the trauma of giving
birth to a stillborn child? I

would distraught I mean,
distraught, doesn't even give it

justice, it would be one of the
worst, if not the worst

experience in somebody's life.

Sara Chambers: What's wild is I
used to be on the completely

opposite end of like
reproductive rights, I was, like

more pro life. And infertility
wasn't the only thing that kind

of made me see a different
perspective. But it definitely

was a huge piece. Because I
started like learning so much

about my own body to that I
didn't know, people think about

abortion, as you know, someone
being irresponsible, or

whatever, whatever idea they
have in their head, and there's

so much more, there's so much
more. I don't think people

realize that. That's where I
think having these tough

conversations is important.

Kosta Yepifantsev: It's easy to
get bullied on the internet, and

you faced your fair share of
criticism online. What do you

think give someone the courage
to get online and tell you God

doesn't want you to have a baby?

How do you deal with these kinds
of comments?

Sara Chambers: If there's
anything I've learned about the

internet, it's that people are
really mean. And so in the

beginning, these comments
really, they really bothered me,

I actually had someone that I
used to go to church with, she

commented on one of my videos
and said that it was my fault

that Dylan and I couldn't get
pregnant, because, like God's

punishing me, for whatever
reason for standing for, you

know, reproductive rights, or
not being religious, and like

all these things, and I just
thought, I actually can't

imagine ever one thinking that,
and then also saying it out

loud, like I'm grieving. This is
hard. You know, it's so hard for

me to relate to people that are
making these mean comments

online. And it really, really
used to bother me. But I think

now, I see it as an opportunity
to educate and to teach people.

And I've also learned so much
from engaging in conversations

with people, one of the most
common comments I get is just

adopt, like, you're just like
crying online, like just go buy

a child, you know, it's not that
easy, first of all, and so I'll

message them or I'll comment
back, or whatever, and say,

let's, let's talk about this,
like, let's have a conversation.

And probably every conversation
that I've had of someone telling

me that has ended in them
saying, Oh, I had no idea, like,

thank you so much for telling me
I didn't know. And that goes a

long way it does. So now I'm
kind of like, please comment

that on my video, and like,
let's talk about it, because

there's so much to be said,
people get really, really mad

when I talk about it online, I
have like a whole playlist,

like, let's talk about adoption,
because adoption is trauma. From

the very, very beginning, there
are studies, there's so much

data out there on the trauma of
adoption. And like I said, I

have a cousin that was adopted
out of foster care. So I don't

think people realize that, even
if you adopted that child from

the hospital at the moment of
birth, there's still trauma, you

have to parent, it's a different
level of parenting. And it's

just different. It's it requires
a lot more. And I don't think

and this is like a controversial
stance of mine. But we really,

really looked into adoption to
see if it's something that we

wanted to do. And I don't think
that people who are infertile

and haven't grieved with that
should adopt, because that is so

much pressure around a child,
right? Like I couldn't have my

own kids. So I'm just going to,
like, adopt to you, you know,

like, that could really mess
with a child and their studies

to prove that. That

Kosta Yepifantsev: being said,
if there's an alternative, like

IVF I do not understand why. If
you're going to use all the

tools in the tool belt, to make
sure that children have a

successful life and upbringing,
a happy life where they can grow

up and be productive citizens of
society. Why would you not want

to use all the tools that are
available to you?

Sara Chambers: Yeah, why would
you not want to exhaust all

medical options before you know
moving to anything else more

drastic, and we're talking about
lives. We're talking about

children's lives here. I think
it would be irresponsible for

you to say I don't think that's
my journey, but do it anyway. I

think that that would be more
you're responsible. So yeah,

yeah. So if you don't think that
adoption is right for you, then

don't do it. That's okay. I
mean, it's, again, it's like

pregnancy. It's different for
everyone. As

Kosta Yepifantsev: you continue
on your fertility journey, and

you look for ways to find joy
and purpose in the present.

What's your advice to other
women who are struggling with

their fertility? What would you
Tell yourself if you had the

opportunity. So

Sara Chambers: the first thing
would be test your husband

demand that they test him,
because that would have saved us

just so much time and money and
just emotional stress. How

Kosta Yepifantsev: common is
that?

Sara Chambers: You know, part of
me thinks that maybe our case is

like a unicorn case, because I
haven't met many other women

that said that their husband
wasn't tested. Okay. So I don't

know how common that is. I do
know, after talking to my

fertility specialists, that
OBGYN do not have the fertility

training to the extent that
fertility specialists have. So

there are things that they
probably don't know, well, like

fertility specialists. So I'm
sure that that could play a part

in it. I really don't know why
what happened happened to us. I

mean, it's just kind of crazy. I
mean, there have been some

people that have related to
that. But for the most part,

everyone has said, that was the
first thing my doctor did was

test both me and my husband,
like, that's just kind of like

common sense. So that would be
the first thing that I would

tell myself. The second would
definitely be that it's not my

fault. And so what's weird about
our infertility journey is I

feel like I experienced a lot of
the grief and a lot of the

motions because for like a year,
I thought it was me, you know,

now that I'm watching my husband
kind of go through what I went

through, and him feeling the
same emotions that I felt that

is there something I could have
done to prevent this, like, Is

this my fault? Is there a higher
power, you know, punishing me?

Did I do something wrong to
deserve this. And I've talked to

so many women and men now that
we've opened up more about the

male factor infertility, that
have said they thought that that

they thought that it was their
fault. And it's not infertility

as a disease, it is an actual
disease, your reproductive

organs are not working in the
way that they should. And that's

a disease. And so I think it's
important to reiterate that and

know that this is not your
fault. It sucks it's life. One

of the best things that Dylan
and I have done to move forward

and to be able to like continue
to live again, is to always have

something to look forward to. So
we try to always have like a

vacation booked or like a
concert or something, just

something to constantly look
forward to. And that has just

been a game changer. Something
so small. Let's

Kosta Yepifantsev: talk about
your small business. Oh, yeah.

Going back to the start of the
show, I want to congratulate you

on the launch and the success of
your advertising agency pretty

clear. You've been open less
than six months, and you already

have a waitlist, will you tell
us about your services and how

small businesses in the upper
Cumberland specifically can

utilize your service. So

Sara Chambers: it kind of feels
like a fever dream, because we

had so Hannah, my business
partner, and also my best

friend, we work so well
together. And we've worked in

the marketing and advertising
world for a while now, years.

And we found out pretty quickly
that we're just like a match

made in heaven, our brains just
work so well together. So we've

been wanting to do this, and we
didn't really know how it would

go. And it's gone really well.

So we do paid advertising. And
our thing is that we focus on

creative development. So in our
previous careers, we've worked a

lot with small businesses, and a
lot of them have told us that

they felt like their advertising
was not authentic to who they

are and to their brand. And so
we wanted to fill that void, and

create an advertising company
that really focuses on our

clients and making sure that the
advertisements reflect who they

are, and making them feel
authentic. So we actually meet

with our clients, and we learn
about their industry. We're

learning all about how ironic
injections like knee injections

or something. So it's been
really fun for us to like, learn

about all of these different
businesses and what they're

doing. And it's also been really
fun to help them grow and

increase ROI and just all of
these fun things. So it's it's

been really, really fun.

Kosta Yepifantsev: And I will
say when it comes to small

businesses now you have some
people like Amma, you know,

she's like, just beyond talented
when it comes to social media.

And there are other business
owners like that. But the

majority like me, first off, you
know, Morgan manages my social

media, but I couldn't even begin
to tell you how to create an ad.

I mean, I might have to use like
Microsoft Paint or something to

create it. Like that's how
inexperienced I am. And so,

you're absolutely right, though,
about authenticity on the

internet, because when it's a
I'll tell you just a really

quick story. So I used to shop
with Brooks a lot like the

running shoes, okay, and I
bought like shorts and all kinds

of running apparel from them.

And then I ran across a company
called track Smith and their

ads, they just speak to the
running culture so much more.

And Brooks is like a kind of the
more commercialized running

culture you know, and So now I
only want to track Smith.

They're more expensive, you
know, probably two or three

times more expensive, but
because I connect better with

them, I buy their stuff. That's
everything exactly right. And so

like, can you give me an example
of maybe someone, you don't have

to necessarily name them if you
don't want to, but how you've

been able to help create an ad
that's helped a business connect

better with their clients? Yeah,

Sara Chambers: so we're working
with a medical practice right

now. And so they're the ones
that offer the hyaluronic acid

injections. And so that's pretty
much what we're primarily

focusing on advertising for
them. And instead of asking

people, because this is a
treatment that has changed a lot

of people's lives, and we've met
with some of their clients, and

listen to their testimonials,
and also ransom as ads, so it's

something that's very, very
helpful that people don't know

about. So instead of telling
people Oh, yeah, like, check out

these hyaluronic acid, knee
injections, or whatever, we're

saying, hey, when's the last
time you walked around your

neighborhood without being in
pain? Like when's the last time

you were able to just get up and
not feel pain? Yeah, and really

invoking that emotion. You know,
a lot of advertising that we've

seen is just generic graphics
and things and nothing that's

really that business. So we went
and did some videos of the

provider that is offering these
that does the injections. And so

I think that really helps people
connect like, Oh, this is who's

doing it. She's the sweetest
person ever. And she knows what

she's doing. So that helps like
build trust and and the

authenticity. So I think things
like that are just really

important.

Kosta Yepifantsev: So we
unpacked a lot. On this episode,

we went from fertility rights to
small business. And I want to

wrap up this episode with a
question about vulnerability.

This is a question that I asked
myself often, as business owners

and members of our community,
how do we show up authentically

and truthfully online? And how
do we have the vulnerability to

say what we really think?

Sara Chambers: I think one of
the advantages to being online

is the exposure honestly, and it
can be a double edged sword, and

it can be malicious at times.

But I am a naturally shy person.

And being online and showing
parts of my life I wouldn't

normally has just really
emboldened me. And the

authenticity the online
community provides, bleeds into

our physical communities. And
it's really fun to see like

people around town who have seen
my videos and relate to

something that I've said. And
it's also really shocking how

many individuals identify with
my infertility videos, like

people just in the community
have, say, oh, my gosh, I've

seen your infertility videos.

And like, I'm also going through
it. And so I've met so many

incredible people, and like,
literally built this little

community, but actually big,
like, infertility community. And

it's just kind of helped us like
not feel so alone. So in my

workplace alone, to I know,
three women who have had to

undergo fertility treatments
that I've had to go through IVF.

And so them randomly seeing like
my videos on Tiktok, or whatever

has opened up that conversation
in the workplace to talk to each

other about our experiences. I
think there's power in being

vulnerable. And something as
specific as infertility. It's so

easy to feel alone. But I think
there's power in talking about

it, because you're not alone.

There's other people that are
there for you. So I think

there's power in it.

Kosta Yepifantsev: And I mean,
obviously, it hasn't negatively

affected your business. Yeah, it
hasn't. So how much different is

your life now than it was? Four
years ago?

Sara Chambers: So different?

Yeah, I am a completely
different person. That could be

a whole other podcast. I'm very
different from who I was. And I

think, I think infertility and
just our entire journey, just

really, I don't want to say
forced me to grow up because I

was grown up, but it really
forced me to have to just be

stronger. Yeah. Open your mind.

Yeah, open my mind. And I always
tell people, when having like

tough conversations, always be
willing to be wrong. Always be

open to it. That's how you
learn. That's how you grow. And

that's what I tried to do is to
just always be open to being

wrong and having that open mind.

Kosta Yepifantsev: Well, I think
we both agree that most people

I'm sure that are listening to
this episode agree that IVF is

not abortion. So whoever came up
with that conduit, they need to

probably reevaluate their
perspective on a lot of things.

We always like to end the show
on a high note, who is someone

that makes you better Are when
you're together.

Sara Chambers: So I want to
cheat because I have two people.

So I'm going to cheat. So my
husband is like, definitely,

he's number one, we're best
friends. And we're really good

at challenging each other. So I
just look forward to going home

to him every day. And I just
love him so much. And so like,

he's definitely number one. But
I have to also mention Hannah.

So she's my business partner. So
like I said, she has an eight

month old daughter that she can
see from IVF. And I watched her

go through that. And that's
honestly like how we bonded. So

we always joke that we have this
like trauma bond from

infertility. But we both also
challenge each other, and we

work really well. And not only
that, but she just inspires me

so much. She is so smart. I've
loved watching her passion with

our business and just her
creativity just like flow and

it's just been an honor to be in
business with her. And I'm just

really excited for us to do
really big things. So

Kosta Yepifantsev: Do you know
what's incredible about

Cookeville Regional Medical
Center? It's ours. No corporate

strings attached. Imagine a
hospital that takes every dollar

it earns and asks, how can we
give back to our community that

CRMC Every year, millions are
reinvested back into the

hospital, ensuring the best care
for Cookeville and the upper

Cumberland with nearly 50,000
emergency visits last year.

Cookeville Regional Medical
Center isn't just serving our

community. It's a vital part of
it. Thank you to our partners at

CRMC for representing the heart
of our show, and the health of

our community.

Morgan Franklin: Thank you for
joining us on this episode of

Better Together with Kosta
Yepifantsev. If you've enjoyed

listening and you want to hear
more, make sure you subscribe on

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Leave us a review or better yet,
share this episode with a

friend. Today's episode was
written and produced by Morgan

Franklin post production mixing
and editing by Mike Franklin.

Want to know more about Kosta
visit us at

kostayepifantsev.com. We're
better together. We'd like to

remind our listeners that the
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during this episode are those of
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various topics of interest,
please note that the content is

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