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For over 25 years Proverbs 31 Ministries' mission has been to intersect God's Word in the real, hard places we all struggle with. That's why we started this podcast. Every episode will feature a variety of teachings from president Lysa TerKeurst, staff members or friends of the ministry who can teach you something valuable from their vantage point. We hope that regardless of your age, background or stage of life, it's something you look forward to listening to each month!
MEREDITH BROCK:
Friends, thanks for tuning in to the Proverbs 31 Ministries podcast, where we share Biblical truth for any girl in any season. Every episode gives you a solid teaching to challenge your faith, followed by a conversation where we pull up a chair and unpack what it actually looks like in real life. I'm your host, Meredith Brock, and I'm here today with my co-host, Shae Hill.
SHAE HILL:
Hi, Meredith. I haven't been on the Proverbs 31 Ministries podcast in a while, so I'm so glad to be hanging out with you today, and our listeners are in for such a treat.
MEREDITH:
Well, I loved the conversation and the teaching that we just heard from our dear friend Jennifer Rothschild. It was, man, a really good lens, I guess you could say, to look at our daily troubles, those things that we are facing, and how do we shift from a perspective of, "I'm never gonna get through this," to an eternal perspective that brings the maturity and goodness that we so desire in life. I can't wait for you guys to listen to it.
SHAE:
So good. And before we jump into that conversation, I also wanna let you know how uniquely today's episode connects to the content that we're covering on another one of our podcast platforms called Therapy and Theology. We're actually in the middle of a brand-new season where we're discussing how we can live in a broken world with a spiritual perspective.
SHAE:
You see, there is a seen physical reality to the things that we're experiencing, but then there's also an unseen spiritual reality coexisting at the exact same time. And today's teaching with Jennifer is so transformative, but friends, we don't want you to stop here, so after you finish this episode, check out that new season on Therapy and Theology with Lisa TerKeurst, Counselor Jim Cress, and our very own Dr. Joel Muddamalle as they unpack topics like spiritual discernment, spiritual warfare, the armor of God, death and dying, heaven and hell, what scripture says about the unseen realities behind the battles we're facing, and so much more. If you're listening to this on a podcast platform, then just search Therapy and Theology and you can find the latest episode.
MEREDITH:
Good stuff going on the podcast right now. But nothing else here to say other than let's go listen to Jennifer Rothschild
MEREDITH:
Well, hi Jennifer. Welcome back to the Proverbs 31 Ministries podcast. We're so glad you were able to join us today.
JENNIFER ROTHSCHILD:
Oh, me too. I love being with you guys. This is fun. This is awesome.
MEREDITH:
It's such a treat to have you, Jennifer, and for those of you who may not know who Jennifer is, she's truly one of the most delightful speakers and writers, and her heart for the Lord is so sincere. Jennifer, I know that you have something on your heart today that you're excited to share with us, but before we get started, would you just share, um, something maybe exciting or it could be simple that's brought you joy in this season so our listeners can get to know you a little bit?
JENNIFER:
That is such a great question, and it's funny the things that bring us joy, so all right, I'm about to reveal a lot here of what is bringing me joy. I received in the mail A bust of C. S. Lewis.
MEREDITH:
Oh my gosh.
SHAE:
Oh my goodness.
JENNIFER: And I kn-I know it's an inanimate object, but it is bringing - I'm laughing because I'm kinda laughing at myself and how giddy I've been over this thing. It is truly bringing me joy for several reasons. I'm a giant C. S. Lewis fan, a major C. S. Lewis geek, and this bust, he, you know, it's probably, I don't know, seven inches tall, maybe five inches wide. And you know, he's got his craggy, bald head, and his big British nose, and his pouty lips, and I literally every day pat him on the head and say, "Good morning, Jack."
SHAE:
Oh my goodness.
JENNIFER:
And it's, like, part of my ritual.
SHAE:
I love that so much. I feel like our theologian on staff, Dr. Joel Muddamalle, would totally geek out with you over this. This is so fun. That's amazing.
MEREDITH:
Oh, I love things that are Like, that is a sit really is simple. Like, it's just-
JENNIFER: It is simple
MEREDITH:
a little statue that you can place in your home that makes, like, that internal side of you just kinda giggle and, and come alive. Um, I love that. It really is. I love that so much. Maybe I'm gonna order one, but it's not gonna be C. S. Lewis. Like, I don't know. I, gonna have to think creatively about who would-
JENNIFER:
Yeah, who would you, who would you-
MEREDITH:
Who would I Uh, I don't know. All I can think of right now is George Washington.
JENNIFER:
Oh my.
MEREDITH:
But I donI don't think he would bring me joy. I just that's the only historical character.
SHAE:
I get the, I get the vibe. I get the vibe, for sure. Oh my goodness.
JENNIFER:
But we get the idea.
SHAE:
Yes.
JENNIFER:
I think you ought to get a little head of your hubby, Mac.
SHAE:
Oh my goodness.
MEREDITH:
Yeah!
JENNIFER:
Just put that on your desk and pat him on the head every day. And say, "Hey, hey, babe." "Hey, Mac. How's it going?" "Hey, there."
MEREDITH:
Oh my goodness, Jennifer, this episode is already off to a great start. I love it. Um, we are so excited to hear your message today. I know you've taken, um, a lot of it from your new devotion that you just released called Heaven for Today, 60 Devotions on How the Life to Come Changes Your Life Right Now.
MEREDITH:
And that title alone, I know I need it to hear it today. So I cannot wait to hear your message, Jennifer, so why don't you take it away?
JENNIFER:
Well, I'm grateful we get to talk about heaven because it's not just for tomorrow, it really is for today. And because I just giggled about C.S. Lewis, let me just start with this, okay?
JENNIFER:
C.S. Lewis once wrote that, uh, joy is the serious business of heaven. So why reserve, why reserve that, that unum, unfiltered joy for just that day when we can experience it today? It's the serious business of heaven, so let's live heaven today. So now quite pragmatically though, I mean, that's, that seems so con- so abstract, we gotta put it into the, into the concrete.
JENNIFER:
And I think there is a scripture that helps us do this. Because if we're really gonna live the reality and the promise of heaven today, then it, then it all deals with our perspective. And I think Paul teaches us how to have an eternal perspective. So that's really what I want us to, to really consider today, like as the sisters, as the family of God, what does it mean to really have an eternal perspective so we can live the promise of heaven today?
JENNIFER:
Okay, so we're gonna look at three verses, and these three verses are in 2 Corinthians 4:16-18. And we're literally just gonna talk through them, okay? So we'll start with 2 Corinthians 4:16, and before we go through the verse together, I wanna tell you what this verse means to me, just kinda giving you a blanket to put over the verse.
JENNIFER:
If we're gonna have an eternal perspective, it means we need to accept what God allows, okay? That's the first way we begin to live the reality of heaven today. We have an eternal perspective. We accept what God allows. Okay, now, that is my summary of this verse that we're about to look at in 2 Corinthians 4:16.
JENNIFER:
Paul says, "Therefore, we do not lose heart," which means we don't freak out, we don't give up, we don't just let discouragement get the best of us. "Therefore, we do not lose heart, though outwardly we're wasting away. Wah, wah. Okay, we all know what that feels like. Outwardly we're wasting away, but then he says this, "And inwardly though, we are being renewed day by day."
JENNIFER:
All right, so why do I say that this verse represents this concept that we can accept what God allows? Because Paul is being super blunt and obvious, saying outwardly we are wasting away. Like, that is the reality of our life here on this side of eternity. We're wasting away. We are not made for longevity alone.
JENNIFER:
We are made for eternity, and so our lives come with an expiration date, and within the time we are born until the time we die, we experience aging, wasting away. Now, you looked in the mirror this morning, so you're probably pretty familiar with the fact that you're not the same girl you were 10 years ago or 20 years ago or 30 years ago.
JENNIFER:
And in fact, it's really funny. I was, uh, putting on makeup a while back and, uh, even though I'm blind, I do put on my own makeup. And so here I am putting on my mascara, and I've always done it by counting. Like, I know how many strokes to count my mascara to get the right amount on. Well, y'all, I am stroking and counting and I'm like, "What, what in the world?
JENNIFER:
Where are my eyelashes?" Like, they're so much thinner and fewer than they used to be. And then I'm putting on my foundation and my finger rubs against my chin and I'm like, "Oh, there they are." Like, what in the world? The hair that we're losing in one place is showing up in another. Why? Outwardly we are wasting away.
JENNIFER:
I was just in Michigan and fresh fruit was everywhere. We stopped in this little market and there were fresh cherries, there were fresh plums, and my hubby Phil and I, we got some plums and we had them in our little, what I call the Barbie camper. It's just this little camper we travel in. But it's as tiny as what I had as a little girl for barmy Barbies.
JENNIFER:
And so we've got our plums in there. I'm eating this plum, and as I'm holding it in my handI'm feeling how tight the skin is on it. It's so hydrated, and I'm giggling to myself because I'm thinking, "Yeah, this exactly is what I used to be like." I was a plum, hydrated, had this tight skin, and now I'm entering into a stage of life where I'm more like the prune.
JENNIFER:
Because you know what a prune is, it's the dehydrated version of the plum. But here's the thing, outwardly, we're wasting away. Yes, it's okay that we enter into a stage of life where we feel more like a prune than a plum. But I have learned to accept what God has allowed. This is part of our transition and our time here on Earth.
JENNIFER:
And y'all, if you wanna Botox your prune, you can Botox your prune, okay? That's fine. But it's still gonna be a prune, and it's okay. We don't need to despise these days of recognizing that we're wasting away. We need to be pragmatic about it. I mean, Jesus himself said in John 16:33, "In this world, you're gonna have trouble."
JENNIFER:
It's okay. Like, outwardly, you're wasting away. This is part of just what it means to live in a sin-stained world. And so we don't just, um, despise it. We don't reject it. We, we accept it. We have a, a holy pragmatism because we're seeing our life through the eyes of eternity. I remember our youngest son, his name is Connor, and he was only about three years old, and Miss Pat was driving him home from preschool.
JENNIFER:
And because I cannot see, my children, you know, have always been driven by someone else in the car, and Miss Pat was the one who was helping me in this season of life. And so our boys, though they were both born with a mama who is blind, and that's all they ever knew, it took them a while as they got older to really recognize what that meant.
JENNIFER:
So here's little Connor sitting in his booster seat in the back seat, and Miss Pat's driving him home, and she tells me that Connor, out of the blue, says, "Miss Pat, why doesn't my mommy drive me home from school?" And Pat told me she was just a little awkward. You know, she just wasn't real sure how to, how she should respond.
JENNIFER:
And she's like, "Well, Connor, you know, your mommy, she can't see," or, "You know, your mama, she, she can't drive because she's blind." Anyway, Connor interrupted her and said, "Oh, yeah, my mom walks by faith and not by sight." That right there, that's what I'm talking about. That's the holy pragmatism, where we just accept what God allows.
JENNIFER:
On this side of eternity, we walk by faith, not by sight. We don't understand it all. We don't like it all. Outwardly, we are wasting away. Oh, but the good news, if we're going to accept the reality that God has allowed that outwardly we are wasting away, then we also accept the reality that inwardly, by His Spirit daily, we are being renewed.
JENNIFER:
Why? 'Cause we're made for more than longevity. We are made for eternity. God has placed eternity in our hearts, and the reality and the presence of His Holy Spirit as He walks with us every day brings this inwardly daily renewal that even allows us to walk with joy and even laughter at the days to come because we can accept what God allows.
JENNIFER:
And part of the reason we can accept what God allows is because we can, we can see that it has purpose. And in fact, that's the second point I want us to look at. Not only that we accept what God allows based on 2 Corinthians 4:16, but that we see what God allows as purposeful, okay? And that is how I'm summarizing verse 17 of 2 Corinthians 4.
JENNIFER:
We, we see what God has allowed as purposeful. That's what allows us to live Heaven today, allows us to keep an eternal perspective. All right, so verse 17 of 2 Corinthians 4 says “That these light and temporary troubles.” All right, let's just pause there before I quote the rest of the verse. “That these light and temporary troubles.”
JENNIFER:
As you're listening right now, think of what you're dealing with. Think of the trouble you're dealing with. Jesus said, "In this world, you will have trouble." And trouble takes on so many different shapes and forms. Sometimes it's a hard marriage. Sometimes it's a precious child diagnosed with a disease.
JENNIFER:
Sometimes it's an aging parent. Sometimes it's financial strain. I mean, trouble, trouble, there's all sorts, are light and temporary trouble. Now, when you thought of your trouble, chances are you wouldn't have described it as light 'cause most of the time when we're dealing with something hard on this side of eternity, it feels heavy.
JENNIFER:
I was diagnosed with blindness. I became blind at the age of 15, diagnosed with a disease called retinitis pigmentosa with no cure. There's no remedy for my blindness. That's not light. That's heavy, and it is certainly not temporary, which is the other word that Paul uses to describe the troubles we dea-deal with here on Earth.
JENNIFER:
When someone we love is diagnosed with cancer, that's, that's terminal usually, not temporary. And so Paul is saying in the first verse, in verse 16, "We don't lose heart." And then he goes on to say, "These troubles that you deal with," that he calls light and temporary, he says… And this is what the purpose is.
JENNIFER:
He says, "They are working within you and for you a greater weight of glory." Or maybe your version reads, "A weight of glory that far exceeds them all." In other words, the reason Paul can describe what we're dealing with here on Earth as light is because he compares it to something greater. He says that hard thing that you're dealing with, that trouble that you don't understand, that is actually doing something within you that is purposeful.
JENNIFER:
It is working within you. It is working for you a greater weight of glory. Now, it's interesting when glory is described in scripture, it always carries this connotation of heaviness, almost like a gravitas. Back in the Old Testament, the Hebrew word for glory literally does mean weight, as in W-E-I-G-H-T, and it's always referring to this deep profundity gravitas of God.
JENNIFER:
So when you think about what you deal with here on Earth, that light and temporary trouble that feels heavy and forever, God is saying, "Oh, sister, daughter, do not lose heart," because there is purpose. And you may not see on this side of eternity that greater weight of glory that will be revealed when you come home someday to heaven, but you can tap into it now.
JENNIFER:
You can let the greater weight of glory that God is using this to develop in you now be that anchor. Not something that just weighs you down and takes you down, but instead something that grounds you and anchors you in eternity, because there is purpose. And when we do persevere with purpose, with these troubles that God has allowed, I believe we get to experience a little bit of the glimmer of the glory.
JENNIFER:
When we think about James 1:12, James 1:12, I'm gonna paraphrase it. It says, "Blessed is that woman who perseveres under trial." In other words, blessed is that girl who's tired, but she doesn't give up. Blessed is the woman, blessed is the person who perseveres under trial, for when that person has run the race, has done the thing, she will receive a crown of life.
JENNIFER:
That's what's waiting for us, a far greater weight of glory. And the day we get to heaven, we'll realize that the worries of today really weren't worth fretting over. And I don't understand why God's even gonna give us crowns in heaven, because to me, oh my goodness, the reward is Jesus. What more could we want?
JENNIFER:
But how kind of God that he will actually reward us for our faithfulness here. And if you get that crown of life, if I get that crown of life, and we will, because we will persevereI hope we only let it sit on our grateful heads long enough to take it off and put it at the feet of Jesus where it belongs.
JENNIFER:
All right, third verse we're gonna look at, and the third point. Third point is that we're gonna see what we deal with on this side of eternity as temporary. So not only do we accept what God allows, but we see what God allows as purposeful, and then we're also gonna see that thing that God allows as temporary.
JENNIFER:
That's verse 18. 2 Corinthians, um, chapter 4 verse 18 says, "So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, and what is unseen is eternal." It's almost like if we're gonna live heaven today, we gotta look at this life as, as a Post-it Note. You know what a Post-it Note is?
JENNIFER:
It's, um, it's a sticky note, and it's permanent, but it's also temporary. Like, it is permanent until you rip it off the wall, and then it's gone. It is temporarily permanent. That's, that's what this life is. It's a Post-it Note compared to where we're supposed to fix our eyes, which is to cement our eyes on that which is unseen, which is our eternal home, and all the promises and all the reality that that means for today.
JENNIFER:
And so I'm gonna take it right down to my kitchen, okay? I'm gonna bring it right to my kitchen and show you what this looks like. Because it's easy to talk about these things, and sometimes it's hard to live them, but when we really ask God to fix our eyes on eternity, we can see the problems of this life as temporary, and therefore, they don't bring us down. They lift our eyes.
JENNIFER:
So I'm in the kitchen with my daughter-in-law, Caroline, and she'd only been in the family for about a year. It was her first Thanksgiving with us, and oh, I wanted to impress her so much. There's any mother-in-laws listening out there, let me just say, um, I know. I get you. You want your daughter-in-law to like you.
JENNIFER:
I do, too, and, and they will if we're likable, so let's be likable and love them well. And so here I was trying to love my daughter-in-law, and I wanted to serve her. I really did. I'll be, I'll be honest. One of the hard things about blindness is I have to get so much help from people, and I get so I would love to be able to serve them in tangible ways.
JENNIFER:
I mean, I know I, I know I serve in other ways, but I would love to be able to just, you know, bring you your iced tea when your glass is empty and all that kind of stuff. And so here I am in the, the kitchen trying to make Thanksgiving dinner. It is not going well. My dear Caroline keeps saying, "Can I help you?"
JENNIFER:
And I'm like, "No, no, I got this." And then I bang into something. "Can I help you?" "No, no, I got this." And then I burn my wrist on something. "Can I help you?" "No, no, I got this." Okay, it was not going well. So finally, I had left the microwave door open and I didn't realize it, and I banged right into it, right on my nose, and oh, it hurt.
JENNIFER:
And she just- this time she didn't say, "Can I help you?" This sweet girl's so intuitive. She just said, "Blindness must be really hard." And I'm standing in front of the microwave. I didn't even turn toward her when she said it, 'cause I gotta be honest, I was so tired and angry and embarrassed and humiliated and frustrated, and I just, ugh, the wave of emotions was just washing over me.
JENNIFER:
And, uh, within the midst of it, it was like I just heard this phrase in my mind. Now, it is not a scriptural phrase, but oh, does it represent the truth of an eternal perspective. And I just believe it was the kindness of God who gave me this thought. I looked over at Caroline and I told her exactly what I had just heard in my heart.
JENNIFER:
I said, "Yes, blindness is super hard, but Earth is short and heaven is long." And that's the perspective of eternity. Yes, it hurts now. Yes, it's hard, but it's temporary. Earth is short and heaven is longer, and heaven is going to outlast our sorrow here on Earth. The faithfulness Goof God and the promise of heaven will last so much longer that what, what we think will never end here on Earth.
JENNIFER:
And so that's why, just like my little four-year-old Connor said, "Oh yeah, my mom walks by faith, not by sight," that's how we handle it here on Earth, my sisters. That's how we handle it. We have an eternal perspective, and we trust the faithfulness of God, and we know that as we walk by faith and not by sight here, trusting in Him, not leaning on our own understanding, that someday we will close our eyes to this Earth, or we will look up because our redemption has drawn nigh and Christ returns.
JENNIFER:
Either way, either way, we win. Our faith will become sight, and then we'll realize that the perspective we had all along on this side of eternity, that's what prepared us for the glory that was to come. And so may the Lord protect His Word and teach us to have that kind of eternal perspective.
MEREDITH:
Wow, Jennifer. Um, I'm just sitting here scribbling down thoughts, um, from what you just said 'cause I'm, I'm thinking about that moment in the kitchen with your daughter-in-law, and did, did you say you had she'd only been in your family for about a year? Is that right?
JENNIFER:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
MEREDITH:
Okay. And here's what I, here's what came to my mind, and you can, you can, uh, what's the- I don't know if debate or you can challenge me on this. But as I was thinking about the fact that your blindness is the trouble that you were struggling with in that moment, right? And in that moment of just maybe embarrassment and frustration where you bumped into the microwave door and she acknowledged your trouble your response to her was not anger. It wasn't, "Ugh, no, it's fine."
JENNIFER:
Right.
MEREDITH:
"I've got this," you know?
JENNIFER:
Right. Right.
MEREDITH:
Um, and instead it was like, "Yeah, it is," and youYeah made this choice to, to change your perspective, but you also in that moment of acknowledging your trouble invited, I can imagine, for her that created a new, um sense of closeness to you. And-
JENNIFER:
Gosh, I never thought of that. Yeah
MEREDITH:
… and a new sense of like, "Okay, I don't have to be afraid to talk about this." "I don't have to- Pretend like it's not happening, you know?
JENNIFER:
Yeah, that's, yeah, that's good. Yeah.
MEREDITH:
And here's what came to my mind as you were saying it, is that I think so often our troubles are the playground for the enemy. He loves to come in and use them in a way to harden our hearts and to, um, create distance from the Lord, because you don't want to accept it. And instead you wanna say, "No, I've got this. I'm fine." Or "Why are you doing this to me?" And as you were, like, sharing that story and your response to your daughter-in-law, I was like, man, that should be our response to the Lord, too, you know?
MEREDITH:
And in responding to the Lord that way, it creates intimacy with him rather than distance. It creates closeness. And I just think, I was, I was genuinely this week, um, reading through and studying a little bit of the Book of Hebrews, and the whole point of writing Hebrews, like, we don't know who wrote it, but we know the purpose was to encourage the Jewish people who were new believers who were starting to grow distant from their faith, their belief in Jesus, because they were being persecuted, because they had trouble. And guess the whole book is basically like, "No, no, no, just keep looking at Jesus. Jesus is the answer.". "Jesus is it." And I couldn't help but this whole, everything that you just said. Point one, to accept what God allows, to see what God allows as purposeful, and then to see it as, like, this is temporary is exactly what the Lord calls us to do all throughout scriptureYeah because he's saying, "Draw near to me. Draw near to me." You know, it's just, it's beautiful. It's beautiful. What are you thinking over there, Shae?
SHAE:
I'm just-
JENNIFER:
Woo!
SHAE:
…thinking of just the whole time you were talking, Jennifer, I just think, I feel such an ease when you talk about this. And I think a lot of times when we're talking about having an eternal perspective, it could feel a little bit like spiritual bypassing or putting a Band-Aid over circumstances that are hard, like you talk about. I mean, you are up against something that is really hard every single day. Um, but you really perfectly, I feel like, held in balance of what is hard, but also we don't have to walk defeated.
SHAE:
There's an ease, I think, that comes with facing life on this side of eternity when you know, um, that it's purposeful, when you know that it's temporary. And so I just wanted to say thank you, 'cause I feel, like, just really encouraged. In, in a day and age where so many of us are, um, giving into feelings, and very real, but, like, situations of anxiety and control and anger like Meredith mentioned, I just, I want to live with more ease of whatever comes my way today…Uh, it's temporary, and we are headed towards something that is so much greater. Um, like you, like you said, any-anything in heaven is gonna outlast any sorrow that we face here on Earth, and that is really, really good news, um, for today. So I just wanted to say thank you.
JENNIFER:
Wow. Y'all, uh, what beautiful applications. You know, as I hear you say that, I just think of how it, it, it requires humility. I mean, to really have a humble posture toward the kindness of God in whatever package it shows up. Because He does draw near to the humble.
JENNIFER:
He resists the pride, and it's really just pride that says, "Nope, sorry, I could gaI got this" or "Nope, sorry, can't accept this." It's just pride, but what we need most in this life is nearness to Christ.
SHAE:
Mm, so true and so good.
JENNIFER:
And, uh, He resists the proud, but He draws close to the humble, so let's be those women.
MEREDITH:
Amen.
SHAE:
So good.
MEREDITH:
Jennifer, so, so good. I, um, I'll be thinking about this all day today and all week as I think about the troubles that I face, you know, and that so many times I am, um, what's the word, stiff-necked. Yeah. Yeah. Um, to the Lord, 'cause I think I, "I've got this. You know, I've got this." "I can handle it."
MEREDITH:
Um, but boy, boy, oh boy, when we live there, do we miss so much of, um, the Lord's goodness to us. So gosh, we're grateful to have gotten to learn from you today, Jennifer. What a powerful teaching and reminder of the joy that really is before all of us if we can shift our eyes and accept and see the purpose in what God has.
MEREDITH:
Um, friends, if you are encouraged by this message, I really want to encourage you to go out and grab Heaven For Today. It's a devotional by Jennifer. It's such a wonderful resource for you, and I think it will help you. If you're struggling with this on a, on, I think it will help you on a daily basis to do just that, to shift your perspective from the here, right now, to that eternal perspective she talked about.
SHAE:
So good. Thank you so much for tuning in today, friends, and thank you again, Jennifer, for joining us. Here at Proverbs 31 Ministries, we believe when you know the truth and live the truth, it changes everything.