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The Transform your Teaching podcast is a service of the Center for Teaching and Learning at Cedarville University in Cedarville, Ohio. Join Dr. Rob McDole and Dr. Jared Pyles as they seek to inspire higher education faculty to adopt innovative teaching and learning practices.
Librarians have always been interested in serving people. Like, service is at the heart of librarianship. The changes we've had to make are probably not so
Josh Michael:much our commitment, but just thinking about what are the modalities in which we're doing this.
Jared:This is the Transform Your Teaching podcast. The Transform Your Teaching podcast is a service of the Center for Teaching and Learning at Cedarville University in Cedarville, Ohio.
Jared:This is the Transform Your Teaching podcast. My name is Jared Pyles, and with me is Dr. Rob McDole.
Rob:Good afternoon.
Jared:We are continuing our series on active learning spaces, and I wanted to have on some of our local active learning experts that we have on our campus, even though they may not realize they're active learning experts. We have Kirsten Setzkorn and, Josh Michael, who are well, I'll get you I'll I'll let you guys give your official positions because I don't wanna butcher them. So, Josh, why don't you start us off?
Josh Michael:Sure thing. Josh Michael, Dean of Library Services here at Cedarville University.
Kirsten Setzkor:And I'm Kirsten Setzkorn. I'm the humanities librarian here, so I help students with, research.
Rob:There you go.
Jared:So what brought you guys to Cedarville? And Josh, we'll start with you.
Josh Michael:Yeah. So I'm actually a Cedarville grad, 1999. Rob and I were in the same hall for a year. One year or two.
Jared:I didn't know that
Josh Michael:one. Just one.
Rob:Wow. My sophomore year, his junior.
Jared:Oh, wow.
Rob:No. Wait.
Josh Michael:Freshman. Freshman.
Rob:That's right. Freshman.
Josh Michael:I was a very young man then.
Rob:He was just extremely tall, and he looked older than what he was.
Jared:Gotcha. Yeah. Makes sense.
Rob:And his quiet demeanor made him more mature too.
Jared:Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah. Didn't put his foot in his mouth nearly as often as you do.
Rob:Yeah. Right.
Jared:Gotcha.
Rob:That's exactly right. Yeah.
Josh Michael:So I graduated here and went to seminary and started working in a library while I was at seminary and really, really liked it. And then, you know, I've been in libraries ever since. And opportunity to come back to Cedarville came up in 2013 and jumped at the chance.
Jared:Cool. Kirsten, what about you?
Kirsten Setzkor:So I'm a Cedarville grad myself as well from 2013, and have been sort of involved in the library in a number of different capacities during that time. So I worked here part time as staff while I was getting my master's degree in library science and then transitioned into this full time faculty position as a humanities librarian.
Jared:Cool.
Rob:We've been doing active learning, and one of the things that Jared and I both have noticed when we walk through the library on our way to Chick fil A occasionally, is that it's full of students downstairs, upstairs. And the thing that we've noticed is that they're studying together, a lot of them. I think even more so, Josh, than what I remember as a student here. And I think Jared had remarked the same. And I'll leave it to you to tell me whether you think that's the case.
Rob:So we really just want to kind of get your insights. You know, what changes are you seeing in the library? Are we right in thinking that there's a lot more going on in terms of, you know, library usage for active learning? And what we mean by that is collaboration effective giving and taking, it seems like between students and not so much like, actually looking at the library resources. So I'm just curious.
Josh Michael:Yeah. You're you're onto something, alright. A lot more students are in the library than there were five years ago, ten years ago. In the last five years, student traffic in the library has doubled.
Rob:Wow.
Josh Michael:So it's been massive increase. Last two years have been big jumps as well. So roughly last year, we had about 400,000 visits to the library in the course of a year.
Rob:So the entire year?
Josh Michael:Entire year, 400,000 visits to the library.
Kirsten Setzkor:Mic drop.
Josh Michael:Yeah.
Josh Michael:I think you're seeing probably is that because the library is busy a lot in the evening, some of our usage patterns are shifting. So there's a lot more students making use of the library in the afternoon. That's kind of the big thing I've noticed since I started here ten years ago. Used to be the library was busy in the evening, not quite as much in the afternoon. Now the afternoon is probably our busiest time.
Josh Michael:Wow.
Kirsten Setzkor:Yeah. I would say that our group study room patterns reflect that as well. We can go and see which rooms are being booked during which slots during the day. And the kind of red bar representing reserved rooms keeps creeping earlier and earlier throughout the day up until like 11AM as soon as chapel lets out.
Josh Michael:Basically, after chapel, you're gonna have trouble finding your group study room unless you've reserved it previously.
Rob:Oh my word.
Josh Michael:Yeah. And you're right about students studying, interacting in groups.
Josh Michael:Some of that, I think, is driven by educational assignments and just kind of the nature of how students study and work in a library.
Josh Michael:Some of that's driven by the furniture that's available to them. Some of that's driven by students have said, Hey, we need more group spaces. We need more collaboration spaces in the library. And we've tried to provide that through adding group study rooms and adding group furniture where they can collaborate and work together with others.
Rob:So talk to us about the furniture. I mean, I know Jared and I have talked about designing those. Obviously, just so everybody knows, we're not professionals in this and nor do we have a space where we're actively solving some of these problems like you're solving. So what's that furniture look like? What are you thinking about when you're thinking about how you're gonna serve your students' needs?
Rob:Anticipating them, number one. And then number two, what kinds of things are you putting in those spaces?
Josh Michael:Yeah. In terms of furniture, what we've done is is pretty basic. Just a table with chairs, a larger table where, say, four students can gather around and study and spread out materials and work together. Your comment there about student needs, that's an interesting one because we do a survey every other year of students and their perceptions of the library, what they're looking for, what they want from us. And so that's been a big driver in why we've moved towards some of these additions or adaptations because what I hear hear different things on the survey.
Josh Michael:One of the things I've heard is that students or a significant number of students want additional group study and collaboration spaces. Now on the flip side, there's plenty of students that still want kind of traditional study models in the library too. So students want to have spaces where they can go and study by themselves. And this year, I really saw in the survey some students said, hey. I love that the library has flexible spaces.
Josh Michael:So I can go downstairs and study by myself and have quiet space. And then when I wanna come up and collaborate and study with my friends, there's a place where I can do that in the library too. So trying to meet a range of student needs is sort of the sweet spot that we're trying to find.
Jared:You have anything to add to that?
Kirsten Setzkor:I would just say the strength of the library is in the diversity of options that we provide for students. So if they want to sit in a comfy chair and kind of camp out and read through a book or work on an assignment, they can do that. If they want to go sit at a solo desk and work and kind of block off noises and distractions, they can do that as well. Like Josh said, they can come upstairs, work collaboratively. I see that a lot even with students who schedule research appointments with me.
Kirsten Setzkor:They'll often be outside my office in one of those larger desks working with other friends, then take a break, step into my office, meet with me, and then go right back into whatever they were working on.
Jared:The research I've done on it has shown that it seems like students will find spaces to work. And it seems like some of them appreciate being able to go outside of their dorm because when I was a student, the dorm was where you studied. You sat at your little desk with a with a light and you just plowed away or whatever it was and had music on or whatever. But it seems like students are going to find the spaces wherever they are. And it seems like it's trending in the direction of more collaborative community.
Jared:Have you guys seen that growth as well? I mean, you talk about foot traffic, but foot traffic could just be coming in and out or using it as a way to, you know, for those who aren't Cedarville people
Rob:On their way to Chick Fil A. On their
Jared:way to Chick fil is was built onto the backside of the library. And that was two years ago?
Josh Michael:I think it opened in the fall of twenty one, if I recall.
Jared:So almost three years.
Rob:It's been about three years.
Jared:So is foot traffic or are you noticing, like you said, the reserves spaces for collaborative stuff? Are you, have you seen that grow as well?
Kirsten Setzkor:Oh yeah, absolutely. And I think Josh can speak to the statistics on that, something he tracks.
Josh Michael:Yeah, in terms of print reserves, we have textbooks on reserve that students can borrow using the library. We've seen a big jump in the last couple of years with that as well. I think we went from, say, 5,000 or 6,000 uses a year to something like 12,000 or 13,000. So that's roughly doubled as well. And your question about Chick fil A, that's an interesting one.
Josh Michael:We've we've tried to puzzle out why has the change happened. Like, why have we seen this increase? And my best guess is there's a there's a variety of reasons. Right? Chick fil A is certainly helping to draw on people, but we've continued to grow much faster.
Josh Michael:Our traffic has grown much faster than the enrollment has grown. Wow. It's continued to grow even beyond that first year, first and two years of Chick fil A. So we're seeing growth faster than the university is growing in terms of enrollment, faster than we can kind of explain. So my best guess is there's a variety of factors contributing to it, Chick fil A being one of those.
Josh Michael:We've tried to be more proactive with our services and finding ways to meet students at point of need, strong collaboration models with faculty, our librarians and faculty working together to make it easier for students to become familiar with the library and use it. One of the things in library literature that researchers talk about is library anxiety. You read library anxiety?
Jared:It sounds familiar.
Josh Michael:Yeah. Right.
Rob:Like, you're gonna get shushed or something?
Josh Michael:Well, it's you just don't know what to do. You don't know how to use it. And so it's kind of intimidating. Right? We've got this numeric code that says where you're supposed to go and find a book.
Josh Michael:So if you don't know how to use that and you're not sure what you can do in there, there's there's a little bit of reticence to make use of that space. And so we work to try and minimize that, make the library a comfortable place. August is getting started weekend at Cedarville. We all know that. And so we have a block party for the students.
Josh Michael:So we'll have 300, 400 freshmen come in and make use of the library space. And just we wanna show them that we're a friendly, welcoming place. They don't have to be worried about using the library, and we want them to come. So I think some things like that have also contributed to why students maybe feel more comfortable using library spaces.
Jared:Our library is hip. It's hip. That's what I'm hearing.
Rob:Well, it's because it's got a toss connected to it and a Chick fil A thing.
Josh Michael:Don't know if that's necessary.
Rob:It's driven I mean, come on. It's driven foot traffic because some of those things, people go through those front doors, the same ones you and I went through.
Josh Michael:Yeah.
Rob:But they go through the front doors and right out the back door down to get in line Chick fil A. The positive part is you have to go through the library and you have to look. I mean, you can't keep yourself from looking and the more people you see in there, I think it's kind of that effect as well probably, you know, where you see more people, you're like, well, this is where I wanna be. Right? This is where the people are.
Josh Michael:And the proximity of Chick fil A, they go through the library, get their lunch, and then they come back to the library to eat their lunch and to study and do work. We see them all the time, bags of Chick fil A stacked up on the table. They've got their books out, laptops out doing whatever. So we know this because we've had to triple the number of trash cans we have in the library just to, well, manage all the the Chick fil A trash can.
Rob:What color are these trash cans?
Josh Michael:They are gray, dark gray.
Jared:Oh, they don't fit the blue.
Rob:Sorry. I didn't know.
Kirsten Setzkor:I'm They're subtle.
Rob:Subtle. Into the decor.
Josh Michael:Libraries are always kinda, like, in the background.
Jared:They should they should be a bright hazard yellow. That's what they should be. You throw away your trash here.
Rob:Hi vis. Yeah. They wrap it in the hi vis.
Jared:So what what have you guys had to do as librarians and maybe with your staff, your student staff and such, to pivot to as more relaxed model? Because, you know, you think of libraries, you think of stuffy librarians who are shushing you at the circulation desk. Not that I experienced that here as a student, but I did. But anyway
Rob:So did I.
Jared:Yeah. So like what have you guys done to help with that? Have you had to adapt your own thoughts on what a library is like and what library sciences are? Or, you know, talk about that a bit.
Josh Michael:You know, I think there's been a change in library culture pretty broad over the last twenty or thirty years, maybe even beyond that, to say, are we oriented around the resources that we have? Are we oriented around the communities that we serve? And so we want to be oriented around the community that we serve, which is the faculty, staff, and students of the university. So a lot of the changes we make, we want to bring kind of our expertise and perspective to bear, but we also want to be responsive to what the students want. And that's one of the reasons why we do a survey, so we can kind of find out how can we meet the needs of students.
Josh Michael:So I would say, yeah, we've probably had to adjust our views a little bit, but I think it's been gradual. I think it's been over time. I don't know that it necessarily required a conscious choice. Librarians have always been interested in serving people. Like, service is at the heart of librarianship.
Josh Michael:So that disposition to serve others and to meet needs, I think, is really embedded deeply within librarianship. And the changes we've had to make are probably not so much our commitment, but just thinking about what are the modalities in which we're doing this. If having the resources there is not sufficient to meet student needs, then we need to say, all right, what do they need beyond the resource? Well, maybe we need to take our services to them and meet them where they are, rather than assuming they have to come to the library and use this. And what has happened is our services have been effective at bringing people into the space as well, because our services are reaching them where they need it.
Kirsten Setzkor:I think the reference desk is a great example of that. We had that debate back in 2015, 2016. Do we keep the reference desk? Which is this big behemoth desk in the middle of a library where students walk up to a librarian that they may or may not know to ask a research question. And so we ultimately decided to do away with the reference desk, which provided more space for students to collaborate and have additional tables and chairs and things like that.
Kirsten Setzkor:But it was also paired with a really proactive outreach model with the different liaison librarians who meet new faculty as they come in, visit their offices, go into classrooms, provide guest lectures, things like that. And then provide easy bookings online for students to book research appointments with us where they come to our office and get to meet with us one on one. And so having that more personal touch and doing more proactive outreach, I think has really helped too.
Jared:Yeah, I would say that would be a huge help as far as bringing people in. Because they see their librarians are actually people.
Rob:How would you, either one of you, redesign or design a library? If somebody came to you and said, here's a blank check, we want you to envision the library of the future and build it. What would it look like?
Kirsten Setzkor:It's a fun thing to consider. Think having flexible spaces would be great. Having furniture like we've already started to do that's easily movable, easily sideable, you know, different things like standing desks or stationary desks and just reaching different student needs and different preferences so that they can feel comfortable in whatever their preference might be for studying or collaborating with others.
Josh Michael:Yeah, I think that variety of spaces is really important. I've just seen a lot of students comment positively on that in our survey. We have a very open concept model, and so probably the most common complaint we get on our survey is it's too noisy in the library. I can't concentrate. And so we haven't had a lot of success in trying to distinguish between quiet and noisy parts of the library.
Josh Michael:That's a constant challenge for us. So if I was designing a library, I'd probably think about segmenting it a little bit more so that you could kind of figure out what your need is at that moment and go to that space and be maybe a little bit more modular or sectioned off a bit. I'd really like what we've been able to do and to keep the people and the services right at the front of the library. I think that's effective. I want people to come into the library, feel welcome, and be able to engage someone right away if they want to.
Josh Michael:So I think services, personnel, those would move to the front, and you'd make sure your your resources and kind of the deeper sort of study environment is maybe a little bit further away from the the high traffic, high high visibility or entrance areas.
Jared:Would you keep the shelves?
Rob:Oh.
Jared:So let me let me I talked to you a bit about this earlier. There have been libraries that completely eliminate their shelves and have digitized all their print resources. Your thoughts?
Josh Michael:Yeah. That's that's a loaded question in library land. You you probably get a variety of answers.
Jared:Well, look. I'm not in librarian studies, so I can say whatever I want. That's right.
Josh Michael:Right. And we you've already determined Rob doesn't have an MLIS degree.
Jared:So Yeah. So spoiler. I don't either. Okay. So yeah.
Kirsten Setzkor:It's an elite club.
Jared:Yeah. It is. I can tell.
Josh Michael:So, as I mentioned, we have programs that are very much into physical resources, humanities especially. And even some other ones would still see a need for physical resources. So for us, when I think about where is our resource budget going to be, it's hard for me to envision when there would be a point where we're committed to all digital and we can do away with the shelving. One of the interesting things I see on the student survey is that I think one of the reasons some students, maybe many students, like to be in the library is the space feels academic to them. What does it feel academic to them?
Josh Michael:We could take out all the books. We could take out all the resources and just have nothing but tables, I think a number of students would feel like this wasn't the place they wanted to study in. Interesting. I think they would feel like this wasn't any different than studying in a different building on campus, or not that much different than their dorm room. See comments like, I like studying in the library because it makes me feel more productive, or I am more productive when I'm studying in the library.
Josh Michael:So I think something about not that the books are simply background or decor, they're still getting used, But being in a space where you have access to the resources, you have access to people that can help you with the resource, and you have access to a variety of kind of spaces, I think that's really a sweet spot for students where they can kind of move from, hey, I'm studying for this final, or no, I need to do now I'm going to do some research on my senior project or this giant proposal I'm working on, a space where you can kind of flex from one need to the other. I think that's where we want to be. We have made some changes to take some resources down to to try and add more seating in the library. Libraries are always trying to find a balance between space dedicated towards patrons and space dedicated towards resources. So that's something where we continue to think about, and we want to be responsive to what the needs of the student body are.
Josh Michael:Digital resources, we've talked about this before. Like, there's just a lot of complications to that. Right? So digital resources are more expensive because you're licensing them. You pay for them every year.
Josh Michael:You don't own them. So it changes the legal framework by which you have access to those. And so you're at the mercy of a publisher. You're at the mercy of a licensing contract because you no longer own those entities outright. And there's consolidation among these publishers too.
Jared:So You may lose access to certain pieces when they consolidate.
Josh Michael:That's right. It's it's harder to to maintain all the subscriptions. So financially, it's a little bit more difficult to do this. You you need more committed to it. Digital resources increase pretty much on average 5% a year regardless.
Josh Michael:So my licenses go up every year. We have to pay more. The university has to pay more for these licenses. Books that you've purchased, physical items, once you've purchased them, it's a one time fee. So some of the models of this are changing.
Josh Michael:That might be a little bit in flux. But the financial aspect is something that shouldn't be discounted when you consider this. And I think also you'd wanna take a look at, again, what do your students need? Now, if you're an online school or if you're primarily offering distance education and that's the only thing you're doing, why would you have a physical library? Right?
Josh Michael:Like, should be online. There may be other specific kinds of educational entities where, yeah, you should go all in on digital, and that should be the only thing. For a campus like us with a large residential population, I think it's kind of a both end model at this point.
Jared:Sure. Makes sense. I'd tell you you would echo the same thing, Kirsten. You'd keep the shelves.
Kirsten Setzkor:I would keep the shelves. And I think we've done a great job here of determining when it would be most effective to pursue digital options. So a great example is for all the Bible minor classes. We've collaborated with the Bible faculty and pursued whenever possible ebook versions of their required textbooks, specifically ones that don't put those annoying publisher limits, like limiting to one person having the e book open at the time or three students having it open at time, but allowing for unlimited viewings. And so a student at any moment can pull up their e book for any other Bible minor classes and read that online.
Kirsten Setzkor:So just being really strategic about the digital resources that we use I think has been most effective. And then of course, that happens best when the research librarians are in communication with the faculty and having a presence in Canvas classes and making easy connections between the students' learning environment and library resources.
Josh Michael:If I can add two more thoughts. If the models for digital resources were a little bit different and maybe more generous or more accessible than they are now, I think you can make a much stronger case for going that route. Sure. I think the other thing we might need to consider is what are the student preferences? So there's been a number of research studies and deep dives into what do students what. Do they want to read print?
Josh Michael:Do they want to read digital? And it's a pretty mixed bag. There's not a clear consensus yet. Sometimes the studies say, hey, it depends on the kind of reading. For popular reading, they'll do this.
Josh Michael:For academic reading, they'll do this. Sometimes it's the length of the material. Sometimes it's the students themselves or the kind of background they have. So I don't know that we've reached a consensus there in terms of what students want. So I think that's something else to keep in mind.
Rob:So we always ask our guests if they would be able to give our listeners something that they could use and apply. And so our listeners are K-12 . Yeah. Obviously, folks here at Cedarville. We have other folks across the world that listen to us, which, you know, it's great, shocking.
Rob:But at the same time, if you can think of it in that context, give them some homework or some things that that they may want to do in terms of utilizing either library or space where they're at.
Kirsten Setzkor:I think the key is just simply using your library. The more you use it, the more I think you appreciate all the services and resources that it has to offer. The more you are able to explore all the knowledge that's contained within and you can rely on the expertise of librarians to help you find that. Especially in today's information age where it can be very overwhelming to know where to begin or where to end your research. And so having those search tips and tricks and all of those curated resources are one of the best ways to build appreciation for the library.
Jared:I wanna brag on Kirsten for a second. She's been a tremendous help from my lit review and dissertation. I'm like, look, I gotta find these keywords. I have no clue what they are. And she's like, oh, here they are.
Jared:She finds them and I find like 50 quality articles that are peer reviewed and exactly what I need.
Rob:So you're like, thanks.
Rob:Really?
Kirsten Setzkor:We're great time savers.
Jared:Yeah. It's
Jared:great. It rely on your librarians.
Rob:So now he has to read it.
Jared:Yeah. And I had to read it, which is fine. I mean, that's the whole point. It was better than having to spend time researching. Thank you guys so much for joining us.
Kirsten Setzkor:Yeah. Thank you for having us.
Rob:Yeah. Thank you
Josh Michael:you for having us. It's my pleasure. Yep.
Jared:So that's gonna do it for us on this episode of the Transform Your Teaching Podcast. Be sure to like and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. Send us an email at CTLPodcastcedarville dot edu and check out our blog at cedarville.edu/focusblog. Thanks for listening.