Empathy Deployed: Customer Interview Examples

Krista Melgarejo is a customer of Notion. Notion is a tool for note-taking, project management and more.

I’ll be trying to understand why Krista purchased Notion, how they use it and what alternatives they’ve considered. Krista’s a marine scientist turned writer and digital marketer. They’re currently working on marketing at Userlist. Userlist provides marketing & lifecycle email for SaaS all under one roof.

Krista also shares why they use Front, Slack and Storrito.

Show Notes

Krista Melgarejo is a customer of Notion. Notion is a tool for note-taking, project management and more.

I’ll be trying to understand why Krista purchased Notion, how they use it and what alternatives they’ve considered. Krista’s a marine scientist turned writer and digital marketer. They’re currently working on marketing at Userlist. Userlist provides marketing & lifecycle email for SaaS all under one roof.

Follow Krista on Twitter @kimelgarejo

Krista also shares why they use Front, Slack and Storrito.

Mentions in the episode include:

Jane Portman, co-founder of Userlist
Benedikt Deicke, co-founrder of Userlist
Trello
Asana
Google Docs
Google Sheets
Google Drive
Turn Google Sheet into a Project Management App
AppSheet
Markdown
Microsoft OneNote
GMail
WhatsApp
Telegram

What is Empathy Deployed: Customer Interview Examples?

Improve your customer interview technique by listening to someone else conducting one every week. Each episode explores a different software product from the perspective of a different user. Hopefully, this will help you to discover new perspectives, make better products and do more customer interviews for your own products.

Jon: Welcome to empathy deployed the
podcast where you can experience an

example customer interview every week.

You'll discover new perspectives on
different software products and improve

your customer interview technique.

As I attempt to do the same

I'm Jonathan Markwell and this week I'll
be interviewing Krista . Krista is a

customer of notion, notions, or tool for
note-taking project management and more.

Are we trying to understand why Krista
purchased the notion, how they use it

and what alternatives they've considered?

Krista's a Marine scientist and
writer and digital marketer.

They're currently working
on marketing at using.

User list provides marketing and lifecycle
email for SAS all under one roof.

Hi Krista

Krista: Hi John.

Jon: Thank you so much for giving up
some time today to, uh, tell me all

about why, uh, decided to buy notion.

Um, I'm pretty excited to hear
about your experience of it.

Um, uh, before we get started, I wonder
if you have any questions for me.

Krista: Uh, so far, I don't have any,

Jon: thank you.

And I want to check, uh, is it, uh,
you happy to record this interview?

Um, what does he, normally we are
already recording, um, because

it's being recorded for a podcast.

Um, but if this is a normal catalyst
and wrench for you, I'd prefer to

record it anyway so that I don't have to
scribble down, um, um, the whole time.

And normally it wouldn't
be shared outside.

Uh, outside of the organization, which
is doing the interview, but this one's

going to be public for everyone to hear
about your experience or a fellowship.

Well, cool.

Okay, cool.

Thank you.

Um, right, so thanks again, um, for,
uh, taking the time now, can you

tell me a little bit about when you
first realized, um, you would need

something like notion, um, to fuel.

Krista: Well, um, I actually encountered
lotion in 2020 and or one of my.

But it really didn't, uh, go into it.

It was only in, um, in this year
2021, and it started working at

user list when I got really, um,
acquainted with how notion works.

And, um, I only use it maybe for
work, but, um, seeing all the features

and getting acquainted, uh, with it
and then, uh, Uh, getting to see the

different templates that you could use.

I also used it for,
um, my graduate thesis.

Um, I'm actually in graduate school, so
it, uh, it really helped me a lot, uh,

with, uh, with my other clients as well.

So notion is, uh, basically, uh, one of my
tools that I've mainly used for anything

work-related or even in my research.

Jon: All right.

That makes sense.

And so, um, what were you using to do
the things you used notion for now,

uh, before you started using nation

Krista: for.

It was mainly for productivity.

So I used to use, um, other
productivity tools like Trello,

and then there was a sauna.

Um, they were quite, they were okay,
but I found it kind of clunky when

you had to switch from giving the
boards and the calendars for Trello,

it was the same, um, because they
had to keep my notes somewhere else.

And then, um, the tasks were in another,
um, we're, um, Trello in the sauna,

but when I started using notion,
I really found it, uh, very cool.

And then it was, um, pretty, pretty
awesome that you, you were able

to keep the tasks in one place.

You could move like a Kanban board
or project management template.

You could use that.

And then, um, you could just add
another page, which you could

keep your meeting notes in.

So.

Um, it's great to have
everything in one place.

Maybe, uh, like Jane said, the
only thing missing with notion is,

um, the collaborative editing, so
we could get rid of Google docs.

So, yeah, that's pretty cool that you
were able to use notion for lots of these

things, uh, unless you do a lot of SCUP.

Jon: Right.

Yeah.

No, that makes sense.

So bringing it brings
everything together into one.

And so before you were using, um,
Trello and it was like a sauna

and what were some of the
specific, um, Things that you were

doing in a sauna and trying to,

Krista: well, it was mostly for
scheduling deadlines and tests because

I worked with a team before that.

Um, we mainly use a sauna for
everything, especially for the

task, but, um, some of the.

Uh, for, for example, writing down the,
uh, documentation for like processes,

you had to do that somewhere else.

Like Google docs it's okay.

But, um, for me right now, I think
it's better to do everything in notion.

Uh, you saw, you don't have
the switch apps for that.

Jon: Yep.

I can definitely see.

So were you ever using Trello?

Uh, sauna in parallel or those
with different when you're

working with different people.

Krista: Well, it depends on the,
it depends on my clients actually.

So some of them prefer
Trello or some of them sauna.

Um, I didn't use them at the same time
because, um, they're kind of similar.

So it really depends on,
uh, what the client prefers.

Yeah.

But if I had the choice, I would really
suggest doing everything in notion,

even for documentation, with my.

Jon: Yeah.

And so the, so the, um, the
alternatives you've mentioned so

far, Assana Trello and Google docs.

Are there any other things
that it's replaced for you?

Well, uh, you were

Krista: using, there were other tools.

Um, I worked with one team that
you see, um, Google sheets,

even for tracking deliverables.

Um, it was okay, but, uh, It's
still kind of clunky, I guess.

Yeah, it wouldn't.

I would use Google sheets for
something else, uh, compared to,

um, doing my past list over there.

Jon: Yep.

Yeah, that definitely makes sense.

Um, And maybe also exploring
fuel, uh, graduate program.

Um, what, what tools were you using
for that, um, for your notes and

keeping track of tasks before motion?

Krista: Well, um, Hey, we're.

Everything was Google-based actually.

So he had different
documents for the task place.

I put that in Google sheets and then
the drafts, I put those on Google docs

and upload everything in Google drive.

So I'm actually using that because I am
still using Google based apps, like I've

mentioned because my, my supervisor is.

Has a preference for
Google-based, um, apps are great.

The notion that I keep, uh, a notion
version of everything, uh, just for the

sake of, um, keeping track of everything
on my end, but I'm trying to convince

her if this, this notion, because, um,
It was the way I'm doing this manual

Kanban board on Google sheets, switches.

It serves a purpose, you know, the basic
purpose, but when, when the tasks, um,

increases, uh, it's kind of hard to, um,
switch the task cards between columns.

So it gets, um, um, less manageable
when you have tests there.

So I would step up her
notion over that one.

Jon: Yeah, I can, I can imagine.

Not like I, yeah, I, I can't imagine
trying to combine them in a tool, so, um,

Krista: yeah.

Yeah.

And then, yeah, when I was
trying that, um, you had, I

think there's a way to do that.

Um, Kanban board on Google
sheets, but you have to.

Installing add on.

I forgot the name of that pad on,
but it's really, I was thinking that

to do everything manually because
when it's kind of hard to convince

someone else to tell her to, um,
you have to install this, add on.

Maybe that wouldn't be the best
way to share your Ken board.

Jon: Yep.

Yeah, that makes sense.

I mean, if the, if the add on
that you, uh, that comes to

mind, um, it would be great.

Great to hear what it's,
uh, what it's called.

Um, so tell me more
about the process of you.

Do you end up keeping notion and your
Google sheets in sync at the moment?

Do you, how do you manage

Krista: that?

Well, it's kind of difficult
to be honest, because.

For me notion, um, keeping the lotion
up date is, um, automatic on my end

because it's easy to, um, drag and drop
things, especially in the canvas board.

And then it's only when I
opened the Google sheets again,

that they remember to sync it.

Yeah.

So it's kinda hard.

I haven't figured out the
way to, if there's a way to.

Uh, maybe zap or sync them together, but,
um, doing men, doing things manually,

um, is fine for now, but maybe I have
to, um, figure out a way to make them

automatically sync with each other.

Jon: All right.

Um, and so, and so you're, you're
basically working in notion day-to-day and

then occasionally you're going back in.

Google land and remembering that
you need to bring some cross.

Yeah.

Right.

Got it.

Uh, and so going back into your
client work, maybe, can you tell

me about your, the, the, um, the
thing you're doing most days on

most times you're working in notion.

What, what are the processes
that you're, that you're doing?

Uh,

Krista: well, uh, user
list, we mainly use notion.

So the page that one of the pages that I
am always checking is our, um, to do this.

So I'm just making check boxes
usually, uh, for what will be the,

um, priorities for the week with
priorities for the day, just to make

sure that I don't miss anything.

Uh, it's really helpful.

And, um, On Fridays.

I usually do that.

So I have to do this for next week.

And then it's really cool that you
been, um, just type in with the

markdown language, the checkboxes,
so you can track, uh, what's

Spanish and what's not, and what's,
uh, what's upcoming for the week.

And then they're there.

Uh, some rare occasions that I have to
create a documentation page for anything

new that we do at Ute, certainly.

And it's really helpful to.

Um, switch pages, this, um, just in case
you forget anything in the processes

and you have to check if you're, if
you missed anything or stuff like that.

Jon: Yep.

And see, are you creating a new page in
notion for every week, um, or a project,

or how do you make that decision?

Krista: Uh, we have, um, Jane
and I have a common page.

So it's this, I think it grew into
a really, really long page that I

just add the tasks for the week.

So it might, all desks were very down
there somewhere, but, um, it's really

helpful that it has no limit on one page.

So it could be an ending page, but
yeah, but I just, um, add the test

where the week on that one page and
I just check it from time to time.

Yeah.

And then we only add new pages for any
documentation that we're working on.

Okay.

Jon: Got it.

Yup.

Uh, that makes sense.

And so can you give me an example
of some of the, um, tasks that

you're putting in a specific.

Krista: Well, um, look crops then.

When is every, every start of the month,
I usually add the task to send out

the email blast for whenever events.

That's a scheduled
every first Thursday of.

And then I have another task, uh, to pick
two to three subscribers who we can send

out or, um, usually it's t-shirts too.

And then there's the, um, maybe
like two to three times a month,

I'm working on editing and
publishing blog posts for a blog.

So that's basically.

Usual things for me to deliver
this as the marketing manager.

Jon: Yep.

That makes sense.

I can see all the pretty many steps
to them was tempted to explore

deep into, um, into all of the
detail of those individual things.

Uh, but conscious of time.

Um, uh, so.

Uh, you've, you've said that you
first came across notion through

your client, uh, user list.

Um, and then ultimately decided
to bring that into, into your own,

into other client work and, and
also your graduate school work.

Um, and so in switching, um, to it, Do
you remember if you were actually looking

for something else for those other things
before, were you unhappy with the way

that things are working or before you
first came into contact with notion?

Krista: Well, I, for two of my
clients are actually the sweat quiet.

Um, we didn't really have a common.

So we will track the tasks for every week.

So I decided since I was using, um,
uh, sign up for one of my previous,

uh, company, uh, I used that worker.

And then I realized after using
those shirts for, uh, for a while

it is a sign, it was kind of clunky
actually, because you had to create

a new workspace for everyone.

For every client or every project.

And even, even now I'm working,
uh, I'm using a signer for

one of my clients right now.

It's just kind of, I think it's kind
of difficult that you don't get all the

notifications from all of your workspaces.

So you have to switch, switch, work,
uh, workspaces from one to the other.

If you're wanting to see
all the notifications.

I think, um, yeah.

Um, notion has a pretty
good, um, notification.

No, I don't really use that yet for some
of my tests, but at least it's easier

to see all of the notifications please.

So you don't have to switch from
one workspace to another and then

yeah, the templates are pretty good.

Jon: Tell me about one of
your favorite templates?

Krista: Well, um, right in that way,
it really like the Kanban board.

I don't know what it's really cool because
sometimes they have different names for

different industries, but I really like
the project management template because

I like seeing that, um, columns for.

To do the doing and the done.

So, um, it really like, uh, I really
like the fact that I'm able to see

all my tasks in one place and then
look at the bigger picture and, you

know, um, celebrate if I do, uh,
if one test, most of the than this.

So I think that's easier for, um, you
know, tracking everything and making

sure that you don't miss anything.

Jon: Absolutely.

And you mentioned this switching between
apps, you still having to do that at the

moment because you're not entirely, you
don't have all clients on to notion yet?

Krista: Not yet.

Um, yeah, it, I just have, uh, you
know, I just have a notion page.

Uh, for my personal use for them,
but we haven't, um, some of my

clients, uh, haven't switched to
notion yet, but if I could get

them on board, that really awesome.

So we could see everything there.

Jon: Yeah.

I can absolutely see that.

Um, so, so would you say that, um,
It's helping in every way that you

hoped it was, um, using notion for the
things that you're now using it for?

Krista: Well, I think I haven't,
um, maximize the potential of

notion this, that, but, um,
so far it has helped me a lot.

And please, I don't have to open, um,
a lot of times on my Chrome to just to

see the documentations in the typical
list, which is, which is awesome.

And then I really like the fact that,
you know, um, I could link some stuff

from my Google notes to my lotion,
if there's no, no other way to work

on the content that I'm working on.

Jon: Yep.

So tell me more about that.

Do you link between the two often
and do you link to any other places?

Krista: The times that I've linked them is
actually for example, some software that

we're using or an online app that we're
using to optimize images had just linked

that a notion, uh, from my documentation
page or, uh, sometimes I forget what the.

But the app, we were using the
convert stuff to mark tech.

So it was just, you know, tiny exam, uh,
tiny things, but not really major things.

Yeah.

And then they actually start linking
some of my, um, stuff on my Google

drive, especially for my research.

I actually decided to upload.

Um, all my records, speed breasts, the
notions in, um, an education plan allows

you to upload unlimited files there.

So instead of opening things on
Google drive, I decided to upload

everything on emotion, which is awesome.

Jon: Alright.

That's cool.

Yeah, I can definitely
see why you do that.

Um, um, Has a tricky question,
maybe it, how, um, uh, how would

you feel or what, what would you do?

Um, if you suddenly
couldn't use nation anymore?

Krista: I really don't know what
to do with that, but I guess

the closest thing I would do is.

Move everything to Google.

And then at least for keeping trap on
track of the test, I would switch back to

maybe Asana would be better than Trello.

I think that's the closest solution
to that, but I hope it still works.

Jon: All right.

Yeah.

I dunno.

I have no information about
China nations on she'll be fine.

Um, and, uh, I guess, uh, uh,
Um, uh, is there anything else,

um, that you think I should know
generally about how you use notion?

I want to, you know, there's a
question you feel I may have missed, or

Krista: I think, I think
they're RN, but Hmm.

I think we've missed anything
or I can think of right now.

Yeah.

Jon: The question would
be, is there anything you'd

like to change about notion?

Um, like if you could wave a magic wand?

Krista: Oh, definitely.

I think, um, I agree with
Jean tweeted about this.

Um, it was more, she was talking about
the collaborative editing, which,

where we currently couldn't do or no.

Because I think you can only go as far
as commenting on sections of drafts,

but not really do what Google docs does,
where you can, where you can really mix

direct suggestions to, to the draft.

So maybe if notion could magically do
that, maybe we could ditch Google docs for

good, at least for wrecking on the dot.

Jon: Right.

Sorry.

Tell me more about how that, um, how you
work together at the moment when you're

collaborating on a document that you
literally both typing at the same time.

Oh,

Krista: well, Jean and I are,
um, usually the ones where

I'm making the edits and the.

Um, suggestions on the docs, but she lets
me do the first round of editing first.

So I've typed in my, um, I go
through the draft and I'll just put

them as his distance because she's
gonna make the final edit so she

will approve, um, my suggestions.

And then after her, her turn is done, we
could, uh, finally publish it on our blog.

Or the podcast speech or the show notes.

So it's like that

Jon: both working on the
document at the same time?

Uh,

Krista: no.

Um, I, um, I usually, uh, I usually
do the first round and then she

does the second and final round.

Um, Because my first round is
pretty, pretty messy, I would say

because, um, you have to, um, make
sure that there are no grammatical

errors or if everything makes sense.

So Jayden, um, encourages me to,
um, tear down the draft as much

as I would before she comes in and
finalizes and polishes and everything.

Jon: Yep.

And S and so you're quite, you're
doing this to then Google docs,

Krista: is that right?

Jon: Which of the Google docs features
are particularly important for doing that?

Krista: Um, it's the suggesting option.

She could actually switch
everything to suggest.

So just to make sure that, um, we're
not destroying the draft entirely, or

I'm not destroying the draft entirely
because I might have, um, missed

something or I misinterpreted something.

Um, at the very least Jane could come
in and review everything before we, uh,

come up with the final version of the.

So that's pretty cool.

Jon: Makes sense.

Makes sense.

Uh, great.

Um, is there anything else that comes
to mind about notion before we, uh, draw

the, draw, the interview to a close?

Krista: Uh, well, I haven't really
explored the, um, the limitations of.

Personal the free personal
friend, but so far.

It's great.

I just know that it's limited.

We it's kind of limited with the file
uploads as far as I know, but yeah.

And then I really appreciate that there.

I think it's a, it's a deal between
the institutions, I guess, that, um,

they give out a free personal pro plan
with the, uh, with emails that past.

Uh, that EDU that ends in EDU.

All right.

That's pretty cool.

I'm pretty helpful.

Yeah.

I just, uh, I hope that more students
would, um, maximize the features of

notions, pretty helpful, especially,
um, a lot of students, I know

at least here in the Philippines
are taking online classes and.

Um, getting stuff done on my answers.

Really helpful.

Yeah.

Jon: Yeah.

That I would have loved to have
had something like that when I was

taking.

Krista: Yeah.

I'm not really sure when.

If we had, uh, my university had
them deal with motion back in 2018

because Hey, after we use from
got that app on Microsoft OneNote.

Yeah.

I use one note per some of my notes
from class, and then I didn't really

read them, scan a, uh, it was okay.

It's something that I
think it's kind of limited.

I didn't really didn't like
the way it was for method.

It's kind of weird that people just
right anyway, compared to the notion

that it's like a doc that you can,
you know, there, you know, with type.

Jon: Yeah.

Do you think, was there any other
reason, so you took notes in one

note, but just didn't go back.

Do you, do you know why
you didn't go back beyond?

Krista: I think, um, it's actually
kind of hard, um, to look at it.

It was.

No organize in a weird way, because I
think they were, um, trying to emulate,

uh, a binder of sorts, uh, bring notes.

Um, it was a different page.

And one thing I really
appreciate with notion was.

E, um, sub pages.

So you have these templates where
you can have meeting notes and then

all your meeting notes are there.

You can go back to them.

Or I actually used one template.

Um, it was for class notes.

It was definitely helpful.

If you can see everything there
and then you can just, um, click

on what you're going through.

What do you want to go back to?

I think that that was the one
thing missing from one note, as

you can see all your stuff, uh, all
your stuff in one place you have

through skim through everything.

Yeah.

Really helpful to have those templates
where you can see everything.

Especially the meeting notes with my
clients say, I definitely use that.

Jon: Yeah, well, that's been fascinating.

I'm conscious of the time we've
been talking for a half an hour,

um, now, um, but thank you so much.

Uh, yeah.

With each of these conversations, I always
learn so much more, um, about products.

Um, you know, I have used in the
past, but I wasn't aware of, uh, many

of the things that you've shared.

So thank you.

Um, um, I'm sure listeners will,
will find it fascinating as well.

Um, uh, is there, um,
Does anyone come to mind?

You don't have to name them on the
air, but, uh, is there anyone that you

would, um, recommend I speak to next?

If I was, uh, further researching,
um, notion and, and, and people

that use it, um, heavily.

I guess, well,

Krista: um, I think you could speak
to definitely Jean and Bennet because

they've been, I think they've been
using it for a long time, but if

you want a different perspective on.

I don't know, my friend used it.

My friend's a graphic designer.

I don't know how exactly she used
this, that she used this notion

for a lot of her work stuff.

So I think that would give you
a different perspective on how

a graphic designer sees that.

Jon: Yeah.

Great.

Thank you.

So, uh, it'd be great to take a moment
to hear a bit more about a year.

I mean, I, I knew a little bit of
background about you before, and

you've mentioned, uh, Jane and
Benedict from years less to I've I've

known for many years and bumped into
different conferences and things.

And so you're, you're working with them
as a freelance, a bit your so studying.

So tell us a bit more about, about that.

Krista: Nope.

Um, before I joined, um, user lists, I
was actually working in a university here

in the Philippines and I was taking up
a, uh, I'm still taking up my graduate

degree in brain science and then started
an acquit in 2019 from the university.

Um, I started, um, I decided to make, um,
freelancing full time in 2019 and 2020.

So I'm here right now, shifting from, um,
the sciences through, uh, digital market.

But, um, I would say that that, that
experience really helped me, um, um,

shifting to move full time freelancing
because, um, really helped me grow a

lot in terms of being conscious in.

Making sure that stuff's done.

And then seeing the bigger picture
of what these small tests are

trying to, um, what objectives
we're trying to reach or what goals.

So I guess that would be, that
was a necessary experience for

me to be able to self manage.

And a lot of things.

Yeah.

Jon: Yeah.

All right.

And you're looking for
more freelance clients.

Are you fully booked?

Krista: Well, right in the, uh, fully
booked kind of, uh, I am trying not to

fill in, uh, all the eight hours in a day.

So then I have time to
finish my research and then.

Um, maybe in the future after I
graduate, I would definitely look for

more plants, but I'm pretty happy with
the clients that I'm working right now

with right now, learn a lot from them.

Jon: Excellent.

Uh, and where can people
find out more about you?

Um, you have a website or a Twitter?

Um,

Krista: well, I don't have.

Website, I'm still working on my personal
website or implanting to, to set up

one, but they could find me on Twitter.

Um, my, uh, uh, my Twitter
handle is, um, K I M L Garrell.

So that's K I M E L G a R E J O.

And then I usually tweet about
the things we do at user lists

or digital marketing, or even.

Some of the, uh, about
the struggles in academia.

Jon: Excellent.

Um, I'll put a link to
that in the show notes.

Um, yeah, I think it was
from your tweaks that.

Discovered that you recently started
using nation more heavily, which prompted

this interview because I was very keen
to speak to someone that I'd never spoken

to before that we lived a long way away.

Um, and so, um, uh, it was great,
great for Jane to, to put us in

touch and contact us as well.

Um, and I'll also be linking to
easel lynched in the show notes.

So, um, Thank you so much again
for your time, Krista, I have one

Empathy Deployed: Customer Interview Examples

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What is Empathy Deployed: Customer Interview Examples?