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This is a show for burnt-out fashion designers (and TDs, PDs, patternmakers and beyond) who want more flexibility while still doing work they love. As a freelance fashion designer, you can build your fashion career on your own terms. Freelancing in fashion is the only way to get freedom in your day (instead of being tied to a desk). Whether you want to earn extra money on the side, fund your fashion brand, or replace your salary, the FDGP podcast will help you get there. Listen in for actionable tips and strategies to kickstart or grow your career as a freelance fashion designer, build your confidence, and create the life you want. Hosted by $100k+ fashion freelancer Sew Heidi, the show features interviews and strategy sessions with successful freelance fashion designers from around the world who've ditched toxic fashion jobs and taken control of their own destinies. This is the only place to get REAL insights from REAL freelancers who have built REAL careers on their own terms. (Formerly the Successful Fashion Freelancer podcast.)
Heidi [00:00:00]:
This is a very special episode. 1 of my students, Courtney Osborne, reached out and said, Heidi, I have so many questions for you. I would love to interview you on the podcast. I said, sure. Let's do it. We wound up talking for so long. We split it into 2 parts. This is part 2, and I'm gonna pass the mic to her now for the intro to the episode.
Courtney Osborn [00:00:17]:
I hope you enjoyed part 1 of this conversation I had with Heidi. In part 2, you'll hear about how she deals with naysayers, how she goes about hiring, and figuring out how to delegate tasks so she can scale her business. Just a disclaimer, there is some adult language in this episode, so we don't recommend listening where little ears may hear. This was something that you were talking about before. We were talking about, like, your support system. Mhmm. Like, have you had naysayers in your in your life that you kinda had to shut down, shut out, or just kinda, like, figure out how to, like, not let those negative thoughts seep in?
Heidi [00:00:50]:
Mhmm. Mhmm. I'm not gonna say who they are.
Courtney Osborn [00:00:56]:
Okay. But, like, how do you how did you mentally deal with that situation? Like, how did you, not let that affect you?
Heidi [00:01:05]:
Therapy? Okay. I still have those people's voices in my head even after, like, very uncomfortably working through trying to work through that with a treat therapist. Right? Like, Yeah. It's fucking hard. I mean, you got me with this question. I really appreciate this question. But it's, like, it's funny you ask it, and I almost I feel in my body, like, all the wind being knocked out of me. And I'm feeling I feel deflated, and all of a sudden, I I I'm starting to doubt, like, do I do I know anything? Can I do this? Can I actually build this? What who am I to who am I to try to do this? You know? Like, I physically you said that.
Heidi [00:02:01]:
I thought of the people, and I physically felt my body deflate. That's what it's so powerful. So how have I dealt with that? I I think I'm one of those people that when someone tells me I can't do something, I'm even more determined to do it. You know?
Courtney Osborn [00:02:27]:
Yeah. I love that.
Heidi [00:02:29]:
So I think in a way, it's it's been a little bit of fuel. And I think that it's still hard to have those naysayers for sure. It's still hard. But in a way, it's a little bit like, fuck you, you motherfucker. I will fucking do this. It will fucking prove you wrong. Like, the visceral passion and, like, determination that I can get out of that, put a major expletive warning on this episode.
Courtney Osborn [00:03:12]:
Don't listen to this one in the car with kids.
Heidi [00:03:14]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I should we'll have to put that in the intro, which by the way, I was thinking, I was like, who's gonna do the intro for this?
Courtney Osborn [00:03:21]:
Oh, it went to me. It went to
Heidi [00:03:23]:
you. So I yeah. You're always gonna have naysayers. Not everybody's not supportive. You know? I've I've been lucky enough to only have a handful of trolls over the years. I mean, literally, I can count them on one hand. I'm talking about online trolls or, like, the people I don't know. Yeah.
Heidi [00:03:43]:
I'm not naysayers who are the people I know that are telling me. Or I can just feel their it might not be blatantly saying it, but I can feel their, their tone and their, their body movement. What is it? The body language Mhmm. Over the years. And I'm like, you know, if I can believe me, you don't believe I can do this. Fuck you.
Courtney Osborn [00:04:06]:
I yeah. I love that. Because I feel, like, the way that you were explaining it about, like, how it deflates you. And I my version of that in my head is, like, I in my head, I am small. I get small. Mhmm. And, like, I get, like, childlike. And I feel, like, I can't speak for myself anymore, and I can't stand up for myself.
Courtney Osborn [00:04:26]:
And so to then take back that power, and, like, stand in it, and be, like, f you. I am. I can.
Heidi [00:04:34]:
Yeah. It's really interesting because, you know, when they say, like, oh, you're a lot of your trauma as an adults from your childhood or something. Right? And I didn't think that. And I had a lovely upbringing, lovely upbringing, on so many levels, but there's some little things that my therapist and I dug into. And I was like, oh, oh, I didn't realize that had an impact, but we dug into it and, like, it fucking did. And it's these, like, these moments where not only are you a child, but also you're made to feel like a child and that you aren't worthy, that you aren't good enough, that you capable, and then it does. It, like, manifests in you as an adult. So Yeah.
Heidi [00:05:26]:
Yeah. Very much. A lot of truth in that.
Courtney Osborn [00:05:29]:
I feel that too. I because I've had similar conversations where someone's, like, well, there's something that happened in your childhood that made you, that made you feel this way, and I'm like, no my parents were amazing, and my siblings were great, and like, yeah I fought with my sister, but like who doesn't?
Heidi [00:05:41]:
Mhmm.
Courtney Osborn [00:05:42]:
And and so it was like a long time I was like, no, like there's nothing in my childhood that caused this, like you're crazy, But there are.
Heidi [00:05:50]:
But there was.
Courtney Osborn [00:05:52]:
There was. There there were times. Yeah. I think a lot about, like, how you teach the, like, B do have, and like, TFAR, and, like, those are things, like, I literally have you with my head sometimes. Like, you are my my mini business therapist, and, like, I and other people I know have had the thought, like, what would Heidi do? Like, I don't know if you know that, but people, like, you are people's little, like, green person, angel on their shoulder that says, like, this is what you need to do.
Heidi [00:06:25]:
Yeah. I'm, I'm very honored to hold that position for people, and I I have heard that, a fair amount of times. And, I don't think it's because I'm anyone special. I think it's because you you just need an outside perspective on everything. We are always harder on ourselves than we are on other people. We always have more doubt in ourselves, and we always have more belief in others. And so I think that you just you need that person who's going to tell you you can do it. It's possible.
Heidi [00:07:09]:
You'll never feel ready. Just go for it. You know, all the inspirational things and what have you in T FAR and BED you have and stuff. But, you know, I've I feel lucky to have created a community and to get my voice spread and heard and to get to inspire so many people, but I don't think it's I don't think that I have anything super special to offer. I think it's just a matter of, like, having a person to keep pushing you. You know? Like, I have my husband has pushed me in a lot of ways, like I talked about earlier. And I have other people too. Like, I'll be totally transparent.
Heidi [00:07:47]:
So because I am. We so for a long time, outside of our other courses, which we retired most of them in I think it was 2021. Yeah. So we're 2021. And we went exclusively to FAST just selling our freelance course. And that course is 9.97. Well, that's a lie. The prices just went up.
Heidi [00:08:12]:
But I've been selling this, let's say, $1,000 for easy numbers. I'm just selling $1,000 product. And, I I tried to raise the price of it once to 14.97 and it flopped. It was, like, mid launch. Nobody was buying and I was, like, oh, freaking out. And I was getting a lot of feedback from people that they were, like, it's just too expensive. I can't afford. So mid cart, like, middle of the launch, we reeled the price back.
Heidi [00:08:35]:
We were, like, oh my gosh. We had to refund a few people that had already bought, and then a bunch more people bought. So we left it at 997. I got a little scarred from that, and I thought, I can't sell anything over $1,000. My audience can't afford it. And I think it's a very similar mindset to, freelancers thinking like, oh, I can't charge anything over $75 an hour or whatever the number is. Right? Because brands can't afford it. They won't pay it.
Heidi [00:08:58]:
Because maybe they heard no once or many times. Right? So I was stuck in this mindset of, like, I my my audience can't afford this anything more than a1000, so I'm stuck at a1000. As a little bit of a test and pushing my own limits through a coach that I was working with who really pushed me to do this, we decided to launch Fast Track. And we launched that at, 1797. And I was I had a really hard time. I was like, oh, it's gonna flop. Nobody's gonna buy. And I was like, maybe we should do 1397.
Heidi [00:09:35]:
Like, I went back and forth in the numbers all day long, and I it took a lot of coaching from my coach. It was usually a small team of coaches that I was working with through this program. And then, to push me to do 17/97. So we did 17/97. It sold out really quickly. I was like, oh, okay. Maybe there's something here. Then we raised the price, to 24/97 to 2887.
Heidi [00:09:55]:
It's still selling. And then in addition to that, we decided to put a a higher ticket offer for 78 75100 roughly. The price has changed a little bit over the last couple of launches, but 75100, we decided to put that as an offer. And the strategy was sheerly for price anchoring, meaning we have this really high ticket offer makes the middle and the lower offer look a little bit more attractive. It's just pricing psychology. And you can do this as a freelancer too. Right? You can present 3 options to a brand and say, like, okay. Option 1 is 10,000.
Heidi [00:10:26]:
Option 2 is 6,000. And option 3 is, like, 4,000 or whatever the numbers. And the chances are they're gonna go with 4, 6,000 in the middle or the bottom. And those numbers start to look more attractive in relation to the 10,000. So we put this $75100 program out there, which was very hard for me to put out. I was like, no. I can't. I all the reasons why I couldn't do it.
Heidi [00:10:49]:
And I think the only reason I was okay with it was because there wasn't an intent to sell it. There was an intent to just use it strategically for price psychology, which I love all this stuff. Again, like I said, the marketing, your numbers, I love this stuff. And then we sold 1, and I was like, what? Shut the front door. Someone just first of all, my audience can afford, and then we sold another. And then just last week at this launch, we sold 3. And I was like, what just what is happening? So, you know, but I I say I tell this story because I didn't, I would not have been capable of putting out these higher ticket offers on my own. I needed someone in my corner who was pushing me and telling me, you can do it.
Heidi [00:11:39]:
Let's try this. Go for it. Yeah. It might fail. Yeah. They might not take it, you know, as a freelancer. Yeah. The brand might say no.
Heidi [00:11:49]:
But, like, I could not have done that on my own. I I would not have had the courage or the confidence or the bravery or what have you. So I think, you know, everybody just needs that person on their shoulder telling them it has to be the right person though. Right? Because there's people who have told me, you can't sell a $75100 product. No way. Your audience can't afford that, which is also what I thought. Right? So do you have to find the right people to to be that voice on your shoulder? So they're all randomly there, but
Courtney Osborn [00:12:23]:
No. No. No. I you totally brought it back. Like, I think it's really interesting for people to know that, like, you have someone doing for you what you're doing for them.
Heidi [00:12:31]:
Uh-huh. Totally.
Courtney Osborn [00:12:34]:
I
Heidi [00:12:34]:
would not do all this on my own. Not just workload wise, but like in my own head. Like the limiting beliefs, you know, the psychology that I have in my head. I need help. We all
Courtney Osborn [00:12:48]:
need help getting through that. And I would you say that's a common theme and like all the people that you're coaching?
Heidi [00:12:56]:
Yeah. A 100%. A 100%. It's, it's actually so the two reasons we launched fast track and fast track turbo, which are the higher price point, more hands on coaching options, beyond fast, which is more of, you know, like a self paced program, confidence and accountability.
Courtney Osborn [00:13:21]:
Yeah.
Heidi [00:13:21]:
Like, not everybody has the super power of just getting stuff done. I mean, like, I like if I am not, like, crossing much of stuff off of to do list, I feel like I'm just a big waste of space. That's just the character that I am, and I know not everybody has that. So a lot of people do need help with the accountability. That's not something I've ever really struggled with. But the confidence, But a lot of people do struggle with the accountability component. Right? And then the confidence is huge. And I would argue that people who maybe don't think they struggle with confidence, I I'm just trying to think through this.
Heidi [00:14:06]:
Like, either they're narcissistic, which in in in which case, they really struggle and they're masking it with, like, a lot of other behavior. But if they really don't think that they are, I I would argue that I mean, here's an example. I worked with a a student who chooses to remain anonymous, who had her tech packs at 9.99. She was selling her tech packs for about $1,000, and she was doing really well. And I was, like, I think, I think you should raise the price. And it wasn't that she lacked confidence. It was first that she didn't she never it never really occurred to her to raise the price. And then she goes, well, I don't I don't and then the confidence that she came up.
Heidi [00:14:50]:
So first, once I brought it up, then she was like, I don't and she she's a confident person, and has had a very successful freelance career so far, but, but wanted to grow and build. And I said, I think you should raise the price. Why don't you try 1299? Why don't you try 13? Like, I was like, keep raising it. And you want people to say no. You don't wanna get a yes from everybody. And she was, like, oh, Heidi, I don't know. Oh, I don't I don't know if anyone's gonna say yes. And she all of a sudden, like, she needed that confidence boost.
Heidi [00:15:20]:
And I was, like, go do it. Do it. Do it. You can do it. You can do it. She just got her first couple of guesses for 19.99. $2,000. Wow.
Heidi [00:15:30]:
She's doubled. Doubled. And when I first brought the idea up to her, she goes, I don't know. I don't just like me with with with people paying 25100 or $75100 for a coaching program, she was like, I don't think people will pay 14.99 or 1500 for a tech pack. And we weren't even talking about 2,000 at that point. We were just talking about maybe 1299, 1399, 1499, something in that range. And she was like, I don't know. I'm not sure people will pay that.
Heidi [00:15:58]:
I'm a little nervous. What do you know? Right? So she didn't necessarily think she needed or or she didn't necessarily think she had a confidence issue, and I don't think she has a confidence issue. But we can still all use that boost to do the thing, like, I would never have Do
Courtney Osborn [00:16:18]:
the scary thing.
Heidi [00:16:19]:
Do the scary thing. Right? I never would have considered putting a $75100 product out there for price anchoring because maybe I just wouldn't have thought about it. And maybe the reason I wouldn't have thought about it is because I wouldn't have had the confidence in the first place to even think of consider it. Right?
Courtney Osborn [00:16:33]:
Well, especially after you previously had no's, you know, then you had that
Heidi [00:16:36]:
fear. Totally.
Courtney Osborn [00:16:39]:
So I don't know how much there's yeah. Mhmm. The difference between, like, fear and confidence and, like, where the intersection is, but it's definitely there.
Heidi [00:16:47]:
Yeah.
Courtney Osborn [00:16:49]:
Alright. How much more time do you have?
Heidi [00:16:52]:
I can do, like I have a call in an hour that I need to get ready for. So I can do, like, 20, 30 minutes. If you, like, really wanna gap it out, at this point, we probably will split into 2. Okay.
Courtney Osborn [00:17:06]:
Okay. I feel like we went into, like, a really deep therapy territory here, so I'm gonna bring it back. Okay. Back to, like, our earlier conversation where you we were talking about, you know, like, how much you've your business has changed and grown, and you have a team now, and you have a support system. So can you talk more about how you, like, have started delegating tasks and how you decide how to do that and how you manage, like, shutting off that control? Because you talked about, like, how you're kind of a control freak.
Heidi [00:17:37]:
Mhmm. Yeah. And then he held this in person event in Chicago called Forefront. And I went to that. I flew out there just for that, and I met up with these business women. And we met in real life for the first time. It was very cool. And we wound up putting here as this mastermind of our own, and, once a year for a couple of years.
Heidi [00:18:31]:
So it's been 2017. So we did it 3 times, and we definitely didn't do it in COVID. We would rent a house somewhere, like, a really swanky house off Airbnb, but there was 8 of us. And so by the time we all paid in, it was it was not bad. And so we're like I remember the very first one we did. We rented this house, and we did, like, all this cool business planning stuff. We did hot seats and stuff. And I remember I was in the hot seat and they said to me, this was when I was still doing everything myself.
Heidi [00:19:02]:
And they said to me, so this is like the first one, it must be like 2017 or something. They said to me, you and we were kind of brutal with each other. We were, like, I was talking about earlier, we were like the scratch of the moon, pour salt on it, like, we all cried when we were in the hot seat. And they were like, you if you wanna grow your business, you have got to let go of control and you have got to let somebody do some of these tasks for you. And I thought I was like, but nobody can do it as good as me. You know, I had that attitude. And, it's just harder to have someone else do it and then I have to check their work and dah, dah, dah, dah. And, but they pushed me really, really, really hard and to tears, in a really healthy way.
Heidi [00:19:46]:
You thought this was gonna get light. Crazy. But anyways, that was a tipping point for me to understand that, like, okay, if I'd if I wanna grow, like, I cannot I have got to figure out how to let go of this control. So I went up hiring my first team member, and I started with delegating stuff that I didn't like doing anymore. So that was, like, the first and and that's still well, that's not still how I delegate anymore. But at the beginning, I was delegating based off of, like, I don't like to like, I don't like answering emails, and doing customer support via email. And so that was the first thing I gave up. I didn't like editing and uploading the podcast every week.
Heidi [00:20:38]:
It's, again, a podcast is like a launch. There's so many moving pieces and parts that people don't see, but, you know, just, like, record and then publish it. There's just a lot in between. So, I offloaded that. So really just kind of, like, started with stuff that I didn't like doing and then it grew to stuff that maybe I didn't mind doing, but I knew someone else could do a better job than me. So it gets it got to a it gets to a point. I I still need to be better at this. Because there's still tasks that I'll do where I'm like, oh, it is just faster for me to do it myself.
Heidi [00:21:22]:
Right? And maybe it's 3 hours later. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or maybe I don't really mind doing it. But it might be faster for you to do it yourself that time than have someone else do it. But if you're doing that task a lot and over and over, yes, it's gonna be more work upfront to get someone else to do it, but then in the long run, you you get a lot of your time back. So I I I'm trying to be conscious of the philosophy of only do what only you can do Good.
Heidi [00:22:05]:
Which is, like, only I can and and and, actually, I would even challenge myself on this comment. Only I can do the podcast. Here we are. You're doing it. I mean, I'm still here. Right? But, like, I think there's people that would challenge that that you could get someone else to do podcast. I'm also like, yeah. You could.
Heidi [00:22:26]:
And and it's really
Courtney Osborn [00:22:28]:
it was really We are the
Heidi [00:22:29]:
brand. Yeah. Yeah. And, like, only I can record the YouTube videos. And but there's other things that, like, I think that, you know, once I once I started finding the right people for my team, which I have an extremely high standard, it took me a year to find Britney. We went through, like, 4 rounds of interviews and hiring and firing until I found Britney. And this other woman that works with me now, her name is Stacy and and she actually came to me organically through this coaching program that I'm in and she's amazing and so good. But, like, I have extremely high standards for my team.
Heidi [00:23:13]:
And and they have high standards for themselves. Like, they all operate, like, type type a, overachiever, go getter, like, super, like, massive sense of of urgency, just, like, top notch performance. And so I I I feel an obligation to make sure that they're also surrounded with people who are top notch overachievers go get like, it's not fair to take someone who's really good and then have them make them work with someone who's, like, kind of mediocre. I don't think that's fair. So, anyways, so it takes me a while to find people, and I'm okay with that. But but what I started learning was the people are out there, they're hard they can be hard to find, depending on your standards. Mine are kind of insane to some extent, I think. But, when you start finding people who do things better than you and I'm not even talking about, like, specialized things.
Heidi [00:24:13]:
I'm not talking about, like, video editing. That is when I was like, oh, okay. There's the magic sauce. Not only do I not have to do it or do I not have to think about it, but you're doing a better job than me. Because that is maybe more your zone of genius than mine. So that's that's some of my thoughts around delegating.
Courtney Osborn [00:24:41]:
No. I think that's huge. I love that that sentiment. Like, to find the people who do the things better than you. Mhmm. Like, it's one thing to think about things as, like, surrounding yourself with experts and, like, you know, knowing who to lean on, but just, you know, see and acknowledge and and just let the people do the things when you realize they're better at it. Mhmm. And having the humility.
Heidi [00:25:03]:
Yeah. Right? Like, when I was freelancing, I mean, I can bust out a great flat in Adobe Illustrator for sure. But when I was freelancing, I ultimately got to the point where I had someone else doing my flats for me, and she did do a better job. Like, stylistically and, like, you know, rendering certain details on a flat or, like, maybe just kind of simulating the drape of a fabric or something. Like, she was better than me, and I was like, great. Go get it. So I guess I hadn't even thought of that as an example, but, like, from a freedom's perspective, that was arguably my first taste of that. But then it took me oh, it was very hard for me to parlay that into my online business.
Heidi [00:25:51]:
And maybe because I it feels a little bit more of like a baby to me Then, like, freelancing yeah. It's it's it's more personal. Yeah.
Courtney Osborn [00:26:03]:
Yeah. That reminds me, somebody asked a question, in your recent event about, like, if you disclose to clients, if you're kind of, like, outsourcing any of your work, did you ever, like, like, share that? Yeah. I don't know.
Heidi [00:26:19]:
Feel like it's necessary
Courtney Osborn [00:26:20]:
because you're you're still the responsible party.
Heidi [00:26:23]:
Mhmm. Yeah. So I think it depends on, like, how you have it structured in your business. Like, if you need to hire a pattern maker to the pattern and then you're not capable of proofing the pattern and making sure that it's good, then you I think you at certain point, you wanna disclose. Okay. You know what? I'm gonna bring in this pattern maker that I know. But as long as you're capable of managing and overseeing that part of the project and making sure that it's it meets your standards and and the client standards, then I don't think you have to disclose that. You don't wanna be dishonest, but there's no reason you need to bring the client into that, you know?
Courtney Osborn [00:27:05]:
Yeah. That makes sense. A little sidebar, but Yeah. When you are hiring people, do you have, like, a list of things that you kind of are looking for, like, your standards, or do you just kinda go off vibes?
Heidi [00:27:21]:
Do you wanna hear our hiring process? It's it's intense as fuck. Do you wanna share it? We just re refined it. Britney just re refined it because we, hired someone at the end of last year, and she wasn't it wasn't a good match. And I was like, okay. I think we still need to refine the hiring process. Actually, just someone my husband works with was working on hiring, and I did a Zoom call with him and I walked him through our process, and he was, like, jaw dropped the whole time. He was, like, oh my god. This is so intense.
Heidi [00:27:55]:
He kinda loved it, but it was also really intense. So, this has been refined over years, but, essentially, I don't care about resumes. I don't wanna see your resume. I kind of really don't even care about your work history. I read this book called Hiring for Attitude, and I firmly believe that, like, someone's attitude and their ethics and their morals and their drive and their ambition is way more important than, like, the hard skills. So the soft skills are paramount to me. Yes, they need to be technically savvy, but, soft skills, I think, are a lot harder to teach and a lot harder to learn and a lot harder to change in someone. So we have our application is pretty rigorous.
Heidi [00:28:43]:
It goes through a ton of questions that really test, like, your thinking and your attitude. And we even have some, like it's almost feels like you're taking the SATs. We have this one question. It's like, okay. Heidi's planning out the podcast, and she's coordinating with Britney did this question. I was like, oh, this is brilliant. She was she's coordinating with Jenny to do an interview, and she Jenny can only interview on Wednesdays Thursday. And, yes, we use Calendly to do this, but we just want to see, like, can their brain think through this complex situation.
Heidi [00:29:15]:
So Jenny can only interview on but Heidi interview that then she has a meeting from 2 to 3, and the interview needs to be an hour long. Like, which time slots actually work for the interview? And so we have, like, questions like that on the initial application, and so that weeds people out pretty quickly. Like, you can knock a lot of people out pretty quickly on, like, critical thinking. And then after that, they go through a small trial project that's asynchronous. They can do it completely on their own, and it's paid. I'll just tell you the numbers. We're looking for a yeah. We're looking for a new, full time virtual assistant.
Heidi [00:29:50]:
And so we had over 500 people fill out the application. 12 went through to the asynchronous trial project. That's it. 12. Wow. 2 of those went through to an asynchronous interview, meaning we had video questions, and then they could send their video responses. And then one made it through to a real interview with me and Britney and that person, and then we did hire her. Wow.
Heidi [00:30:15]:
So that's how the numbers landed.
Courtney Osborn [00:30:19]:
Maybe this will help get you some better, applicants.
Heidi [00:30:23]:
Yeah. I mean, the challenge that we were facing in the past was that, like, we were hiring people and then and going through, like, interviews, which takes my time and Britney's time and then hiring, which is a lot to onboard someone. You have access to all the files and passwords and everything, and and then to discover 2 weeks later that you're like, I don't I don't think this is working. Mhmm. And you have to untangle all of it. It's a lot. And so we said, how can we make this process be as asynchronous as possible so that we can really minimize, how many people we ultimately spend time to sit down with an interview and then ultimately onboard, and really hope that, like, we're filtering out at every stage. And the other thing I've learned in hiring is that red flags only get bigger.
Heidi [00:31:13]:
I said that multiple times. But I think it's true with, like, a client. Mhmm. Or if you're a freelancer that's yeah. That's looking to hire other freelancers. Red flags in the early stages do not go away. You will tell yourself they'll go away. They will not.
Heidi [00:31:31]:
They will only get worse. This is a lesson I have learned the hard way multiple times. I think I'm still learning it.
Courtney Osborn [00:31:41]:
I heard you say that, and I took that to heart. I was hiring another freelancer to help me do some some things. Mhmm. And I was essentially interviewing, and I had a list of people. And on one person's line, it just said flaky, flaky, flaky, flaky, flaky. Like, do not hire this person.
Heidi [00:32:01]:
Yeah. Especially, like, during the interview and onboarding process, they should be at their tippity toppity. So yeah.
Courtney Osborn [00:32:13]:
Can you share, like, a horror story? Just for funsies?
Heidi [00:32:18]:
Oh, I mean, sure. I'll share 2, like, quick ones. 1, we put this person in charge of the podcast, like, getting it published, which it goes live every Monday at, like, 7 AM. And they did it for, like, 3 weeks in a row, and then it was a Monday, and I was having not great feelings about them. And I was like, it was one of those feelings where I felt like I still had to check their work, which is not a feeling you want. And I just checked, and the podcast hadn't been published. It was, like, Monday at, like, noon. And I was like, and she was like, oh, I forgot.
Heidi [00:33:03]:
And I'm like, no. You don't fucking forget to publish the podcast. Like
Courtney Osborn [00:33:09]:
Mhmm.
Heidi [00:33:11]:
So not really a horror. I mean, whatever. It got published. It's fine.
Courtney Osborn [00:33:14]:
Yeah. But it's your business. It's your expectation. You're paying this person to do the thing, and they didn't do the thing.
Heidi [00:33:19]:
Yeah. Yeah. Then then another one, and, maybe some of you out there saw this. But we hired someone to, well, part of her job was to when we had, like, portfolio critiques or strategy sessions from Fastrack and Turbo to them post the recordings inside fast in the circle community and inside fast track and turbo. And we have, like, a template for, like, how to post everything, like, just this is what you post. You just swap out the person's name for whoever strategy session or portfolio critique it was. And then I, like, popped in there, and I was, like, reading this post of this portfolio critique or strategy that I can't remember. And I was like, this literally doesn't even make sense.
Heidi [00:34:03]:
It was clearly written with chat gbt, like, just awkward language, like, over cliched, for about sewing and fashion and stuff. And I was like I was like, Britney, what? Oh, she goes, oh, so and so did that. And I was like, shut it down. I go, we cannot put this purse like, I'm very sensitive about the front line of the business. Like, what our students and what our our email even if you're not a student, like, even if you're on the email list and someone's answering an email to you, like, whether you're paying or not, like, I'm very sensitive about the user experience for those people. And I was like, we cannot, like, have this stuff that doesn't like, this is awful. So Britney fixed it. We got that person out of there.
Heidi [00:34:52]:
They didn't we wound up letting them know. So those are 2 things. Again, nothing like horror story, you know, but just two things that I was like, oh, shut it down. They're not working.
Courtney Osborn [00:35:06]:
Yeah.
Heidi [00:35:07]:
Yeah.
Courtney Osborn [00:35:07]:
Have you experienced any pushback as you've been growing and hiring people and kind of changing your business format?
Heidi [00:35:16]:
Like pushback? Like what?
Courtney Osborn [00:35:21]:
I guess, like, we've talked a lot about pricing. We've talked a lot about how you've grown the business from, like, fast to fast track and fast track turbo. Like, have you had anyone complaining or anyone upset about, like, the shift or when you moved from Facebook to circle with people where people like, oh, I don't wanna have to do another app. Like, you know?
Heidi [00:35:43]:
No. The Facebook to circle change was supported by everybody. I don't think there's anybody complained. But, yeah, I've had pushback. I have had pushback on, retiring the Adobe Illustrator master class and design to development, which is my course in tech packs. I've had push back as to why are those programs not available publicly and they are only available in fast. And, you know, at a certain point, we have to make strategic business decisions that, are wise for us as a business in not only a strategic way, but also, like, a logical way of how efficiently we can run the business. And, you know, we we we try to make every decision with the customer paid or not, like, the the the people at large with their best intention at heart.
Heidi [00:36:40]:
You can't oh, you with everybody's but you can't always meet everybody's best intention. Right? Okay. But there are some decisions that we have to make that are not always super popular. I stopped doing the fast monthly coaching calls. I used to run those calls, and now we have Allison Haynes doing it. And as that community grows, we might hire another coach to coach in there. And I got wind of some feedback that, not that the coaching was bad, because Allison is extremely qualified, but that just it wasn't me. Mhmm.
Heidi [00:37:23]:
And, I get that. You know? I get that. So I I like to consider myself as having a super open door. I'm like, if you have something to say, like, come talk to me about it, and I will, you know, I can't I can't always say I'm gonna change it. But I'm open to hearing your thoughts and your input and your feedback. Or if you feel like you're not having a great experience, like, I really wanna hear about that. And I will do what I can within my power to help, but also we have to be mindful of, like, you know, you can't make a huge change just for a couple people. You kinda have to look at, like, the greater whole as well as what's logical for the business.
Heidi [00:38:08]:
And what's logical for the business is, like, I have got to, again, get more out of the weeds with certain things. And and the fast monthly coaching call was one of those things, and that was when I was, like, can somebody else do it? I don't know. Maybe only I can do it, and that's not that's not reality. Right? So, yeah. Would you
Courtney Osborn [00:38:32]:
call back to the delegating?
Heidi [00:38:34]:
Yeah. Right? Totally. Totally. So over time, things have to change, and not everybody's always gonna love it. I would say the Illustrator Masterclass and Design Development are the ones that we still get a little bit of kickback on here and there. I am shielded from a lot of it though too, because I don't see the frontline emails. So Britney does all the emails right now. We're currently training our new support person on doing all the emails, and, she's really good at protecting me.
Heidi [00:39:09]:
Like, she'll only bring things to me if I really need to know. You know? Because I you know, certain things are, like, it just can be you just don't at a certain point, you just, like, I just I can't know it all, and I don't fuck with my head. Mhmm. You know? So, and, like, she knows, like, we're not gonna start offering those programs again on a regular basis. So, like, I don't know. Maybe people complain about it more than I even am privy to. I mean, I doubt that's the case because anything that does come up over and over, like, she does address it with me. And she's like, okay.
Heidi [00:39:47]:
This is maybe maybe this is a problem because I'm hearing this a lot and stuff. But, yeah, I have built in that layer of protection. I don't want that to sound the wrong way, like, protection, but, like No. It is kind of protecting my time and my mental space my mental space. Right? Like, where I'm putting my energy.
Courtney Osborn [00:40:06]:
I was thinking about this as you were talking, and I like, you are growing from my point of view. Obviously, not in your business. I don't feel the things, but I'm from my point of view, I'm seeing you grow quite a bit.
Heidi [00:40:15]:
Mhmm.
Courtney Osborn [00:40:16]:
And there is a level of, like, celebrity to you. I would say, you are a, more or less, public figure. You're promoting yourself a lot in a lot of different platforms. You are the head of a business that coaches people, and it gets very personal sometimes. And then there's there's a gonna be a section of people who feel like they are allowed to make demands on you. Mhmm. And they're gonna feel like you owe them something, and you don't. And I think it's great to to for you to have that, to acknowledge that, and to have a person who is kind of, like, your protection because it's not fair to you to to have that, like, just constant, like, spattering of people who think that they deserve something and that they don't.
Heidi [00:41:02]:
Yeah. It's interesting. I mean, I'm just a regular person. But I I do know that, like like, we get an obnoxious amount of emails from people, like, on the email list. Like, we send out our Tuesday email, and people will reply to that. And it doesn't say, hey, Heidi. It doesn't say, hey, SFD team. It doesn't have any context based on the original email that was sent.
Heidi [00:41:38]:
It literally just says, I need help with this. I need help with tech packs. How do I do a tech pack? I'm trying to start my own fashion brand. Please advise me what to do. Like, it's very short. It has no there's no, like, thank you so much for all the content. I'm looking for stuff on the can you help me? Like, the amount of emails we get from people who just purely who like, they haven't even been nice. They're not even, like, you know, just being friendly that are arguably just demanding.
Heidi [00:42:22]:
Like you said, demanding, and I was like, god. We do. We get a lot of emails that are just demanding. And, you know, back when I was doing the when I was in the inbox, like, I remember, like, just getting burnt on those over and over. And now, like, yeah, I don't I don't like, when I start to see those, I get fucking irritated. I'm like, these fucking people, like, first of all, you're welcome for the free stuff. And second of all, like, I have a name, and you could address the email to a person and all the other things. And, like, there's not even being a real person.
Heidi [00:42:56]:
And, I I cannot afford to waste any energy or mental space on that. So, yeah, like, having these having Britney and, our new team member, like, up to just, like, protect my time and my mental space on that stuff is is really, really important. And I, you know, I understand that, like, when you're replying to a mass email, you're like, is this is there even a real person on the other side? Right? We pride ourselves on trying to answer most emails. When people just are really demanding, sometimes they just get deleted. Like, we don't reply to those. But, you know, it's interesting. Like, I've tried to be really thoughtful. It's changed my mindset when I am replying to an email on an email list I'm on or when I'm going into, like, a live chat for, like, a software or something that I help with.
Heidi [00:43:54]:
And I always started with, like, hey. Like, on Zoom, I was having trouble with something on Zoom there. And I was like, hey, Zoom team. Because going into a live chat, you don't know the person's name, but I always like to try and say, like, hey. Company name team. And then thanks, Heidi. And then when the person replies and all of a sudden they have a name, like, addressing them by name, and I think that it's it's easy to forget that there's a real person on the other side.
Courtney Osborn [00:44:25]:
Yeah.
Heidi [00:44:25]:
You know? Mhmm.
Courtney Osborn [00:44:29]:
Yeah. That's honestly, like, part of the reason that I had this idea, and I wanted to to kind of throw it out to you because, like, I've had the fortunate opportunity to get to know you a little bit better through the one on one coaching and just other conversations. Mhmm. And I see you as a person, and I know other people, like I said, kinda see you as more of, like, the celebrity, this public figure that's, like, really important. Not that you're not, because I think you are even though you don't. But, like, you are a human being, and there is so much emotion and time and energy and all the things you put into this business that I don't think everyone always really, like, absorbs. And I just I wanted you to have that opportunity to kinda just be real and, like, show that other side of yourself to your listeners.
Heidi [00:45:17]:
Thank you. You know what's so funny is that when you pitched me the idea of, like, hey, I wanna interview you. I just said yes. I didn't even ask why, and I love that this kind of came full circle right at the end.
Courtney Osborn [00:45:30]:
Well, it's not the end yet, because I'm gonna make you answer your question. You always ask your guest at the end, but I'm not limiting it to fashion, because fashion is not your your true wheelhouse. So what is one thing that you wish people would ask you that they never do?
Heidi [00:45:49]:
Wasn't prepared for this one. What do I wish people would ask me that they never do? I'm, I'm fumbling on this a little bit. Not gonna lie. Because I'm I'm thinking of, like, some of the stuff you and I talked to. I was, like, thinking of an answer, and I was, like, oh, you asked me that today. Like the naysayers, right? Like, or, things about,
Courtney Osborn [00:46:37]:
like if it's something I asked, that's fine, but I might be the only person who ever asked you that, you know?
Heidi [00:46:42]:
Yeah. That's true. That's true. I mean, let me, I guess it would maybe be around, I'm not sure if I'm gonna word it as a question to begin with. But, the the thing I would wanna talk about, which I feel like we touched upon today, but how much you fail?
Courtney Osborn [00:47:05]:
Yeah.
Heidi [00:47:06]:
I had a team member who worked with me for a few years and she came from, like, a regular office job. She was like a office manager of like a accounting firm or something. She had not been in, like, the entrepreneur, small business type of space in that level. And and her job in that in that previous role was very much like, you show up, you do this, you are the office plat like, you just you just do the job. Right? And, she had been with me for about a year at the time, and we were having a meeting and she just said, Heidi, I feel like I'm not doing a very good job at my job. And I was, like, why? Have you heard the story? Do you know what
Courtney Osborn [00:47:48]:
to say about? No. No. I I've been there.
Heidi [00:47:50]:
Okay. Because I shared this story a couple of times. And I said, why? And she said, I had I had put her on a couple of projects, and, I think almost I think, actually, maybe all of them failed. In her eyes, had failed. Like, we were we were trying to get Pinterest to work, and so I had her, like, find a Pinterest expert and, like, source a Pinterest expert, and then kind of manage that project, and then have that person post all her Pinterest, and and, like, try to get more traffic that way, and it didn't work. And then there was like 2 other projects. I can't remember what they were, but this is years ago. I was pregnant with Errol at the time.
Heidi [00:48:33]:
And, so yeah, this would have been like 5 years ago. And I, and she she lists out these examples of, like, oh, that fail and that and I go, oh, well, I mean, it just didn't work. That's okay. We try something else. And to her, this concept of, like, all these projects and, like, things she was spearheading that weren't working. She was, like, internalizing as, like, fail, and I'm doing a bad job at my job. And to me, I mean, I've, you know, I've I've been an entrepreneur in so many ways in my life. Like, even when I was a kid, I look back and, like, I was a kid that, like, had the lemonade stand.
Heidi [00:49:13]:
But then not only did I have the lemonade stand, like, I was also selling brownies, and I was selling otter pops. And then you could, like, get an upgrade on your brownie. I have, like, whipped cream and sprinkles for an extra 50¢, and I was, like, doing upsells when I was, like, 6 years old. It's so funny. I look back and then I'm, like, oh my god. I was totally doing my add ons as a kid. You know, and, like, and and and moving forward, I'm trying to think in, like, you know, middle and high school what I did, but I was doing things. I'm I can't recall.
Heidi [00:49:44]:
Anyways, and then I started my own brand, and and there's so many failures with that. Right? And then as a freelancer, like, I had so many failures. And, I think that I just I I actually became, like, I don't wanna say none to it because I've had my lows and we've talked about it on this call. Right? Like, I've had my moments where I crumble, but, you know, projects like that, like, not working. I'm like, oh, well, whatever. We just learned it didn't work, and maybe we could try a different way next time or, you know, we have to pivot or something. And for her, she was just feeling like such a failure. And so I think that, like, what people don't ask about is, like, the reality of how many things you might try that don't work.
Heidi [00:50:32]:
And I think that that's true as a freelancer. I think that's true as a business owner. I mean, I think, you know, depending on the size of your business and the type of your business, at a certain point, arguably more things do work than don't work. But the way we run our business, we're very agile. We do a lot of testing. We experiment a lot and try new things, and, like, a lot of stuff doesn't work. And, like, on a daily or weekly basis, like, oh, that didn't work. Okay.
Heidi [00:51:03]:
Moving on to the next thing. You know, there's really big failures, and I think that's where I still kind of crumble, or, like, have my little meltdowns. But, like, on an ongoing basis, there's little blips all the time of shit that doesn't work. And I just, like, roll right through them because that's what I know. But, depending on the world that you're coming from and the type of work environment or even family and life environment you've been in, you know, all these little failures. It it reminds me a little bit of, what's the woman who founded Spanx and her dad used to always ask her at the dinner table, like, what was one thing you failed at today? And, like, that was a point of pride. Do you know this reference?
Courtney Osborn [00:51:48]:
I don't. But I I've I've heard about yeah. Her name's Sarah something.
Heidi [00:51:52]:
Yeah.
Courtney Osborn [00:51:52]:
Yeah. I've heard plenty about about, like, the founders banks, but I've never actually heard that story.
Heidi [00:51:58]:
Yeah. It was something along those lines. And so I I think that, like, you know, you you know, people say you learn more from your failures than you do from your successes. And I think there's still opportunity to learn from successes, but fuck, you learn from failures. You know, full circle all the way back to that. You need that support network around you because you will fail. Mhmm. And I think the harder you're trying and the faster you're trying to go.
Heidi [00:52:25]:
And, and this year we're trying to go really fast. We're trying to scale and we're, we're pushing a lot of boundaries and we're failing a lot. We're succeeding at some things, we're failing it a lot. And I think that, I think that like people don't see that, you know, people might see that freelancer or that online business owner, which might be me or somebody else as like, oh, they have it all figured out and everything's going perfect. And that is so far from reality.
Courtney Osborn [00:52:53]:
Yeah. I feel like some people feel that way about me. Like, I just because of my interactions with you or like other people inside of your community, people are like, oh my gosh, like, you're one of the, like Heidi rock stars now. And I'm like, girl, April, I didn't make any money, like, $0.
Heidi [00:53:11]:
Nobody ever gets it all figured out. May was great. Yeah.
Courtney Osborn [00:53:14]:
May was great.
Heidi [00:53:15]:
Yeah. Okay. It's life.
Courtney Osborn [00:53:20]:
We call it? I think so. Where can everybody connect
Heidi [00:53:25]:
with me online? I think you guys know where.
Courtney Osborn [00:53:27]:
Oh, yeah.
Heidi [00:53:27]:
Question I was asking at the end.
Courtney Osborn [00:53:29]:
I should know better.
Heidi [00:53:31]:
No. You're good. You're good. Okay. Yeah. We'll call it