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For too long, career services has been an afterthought. Now it's time for career services to be in the driver's seat, leading institutional strategy around career readiness. Join us every other Tuesday for in-depth interviews with today’s most innovative career leaders about how they’re building a campus culture of career readiness… or what we call Career Everywhere.
Meredith Metsker:
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Career Everywhere Podcast. I'm your host, Meredith Metsker, and today I'm joined by Sarah Coburn. She's the Senior Associate Director for Experiential Learning and Employer Engagement at St. Lawrence University in Upstate New York. Thank you for being here, Sarah.
Sarah Coburn:
Thank you for having me, Meredith. I'm really excited about this.
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah, me too. We just had our prep call yesterday, and I've just been thinking about this topic since then. Yeah, I'm just super excited to talk to you today about this really cool and I think kind of unique on-campus internship program that you and your team have developed for your students there at St. Lawrence.
Sounds like not only was the program very needed, but it's also been a big success since you launched it last year with more students and more departments and employers across campus participating and lots of your students getting some of the important experience that they need.
So I'm excited to dig into what the program looks like, how you built it, how you got buy-in from departments across campus and more. So before I get into my questions, is there anything else you would like to add about yourself, your background, or your role there at St. Lawrence?
Sarah Coburn:
So I have been at St. Lawrence since 2006, primarily working in the Center for Career Excellence in a wide variety of roles. So I bring to this program many years of having worked in career coaching and mentoring programs and employer engagement all across the board in our office. And a couple years ago, we actually have grown big enough in our center that we have divided ourselves into two teams.
One that's more focused on career exploration and one more on experiential learning and employer engagement. And that's really the opportunity when we paused and stopped to think about what more we could do with experiential learning at St. Lawrence and that's when OCIP was born.
Meredith Metsker:
Awesome. I love that. And we will dig into that more here in just a few minutes. But before I get into my more specific questions about our topic today, I want to kick us off with a question I ask all of our guests, and that's what does Career Everywhere mean to you?
Sarah Coburn:
Career Everywhere to me speaks to the fact that career development and career exploration doesn't happen just inside my office in conversations with students, but that it's happening in the classroom. It's happening in our in-city trips. It's happening in our employer discussions, our alumni conversations, our workshops.
And all of those strategies and interactions are ways that we help students gain the tools and build the confidence for their own career development and exploration, not only at St. Lawrence, but well beyond St. Lawrence. And I think that's a key part of the work we do because we're not the ones writing cover letters. We're not the ones doing the interviews. And so it's really about equipping these students with the best tools possible for lifelong career development.
Meredith Metsker:
Well said. I love that answer. It's truly about getting it beyond the walls of the career center. It can't just be you and your team responsible for thousands of students in their career path.
Sarah Coburn:
That's for sure.
Meredith Metsker:
All right, well, great. Now I would love to dig into our topic today, which is again, this on-campus internship program, or as I think you guys call it OCIP.
Sarah Coburn:
Yes.
Meredith Metsker:
Is that correct? Okay.
Sarah Coburn:
I'll refer to it as OCIP throughout the conversation.
Meredith Metsker:
All right, perfect. So Sarah, to get us started, can you just explain what the OCIP program is and how it's structured?
Sarah Coburn:
Sure. So the on-campus internship program is a new program that we launched in fall 2023, and what we are doing is creating, as well as bringing into one program internship and work experiences on campus and really elevating the type of work that's being done in these roles so that students are developing relevant workplace skills for after their time at St. Lawrence. And so the program really requires partnerships with departments all across campus.
And what we're doing is taking both existing internships and campus jobs as well as motivating new ones. And we're asking those departments to provide a dedicated supervisor and mentor for the roles that they're hiring for, that they create thoughtful position descriptions with that elevated work. We also key parts of the program in addition to the department's ownership is also learning goal development.
So we have the students and supervisors create learning goals so that they're very intentional with these work experiences. I mentioned the mentoring supervision. We also incorporate professional development on top of their internship role in the department that they're working in. And that professional development is provided through our Center for Career Excellence on top of the work. And then lastly, reflection and assessment.
So encouraging supervisors to provide opportunities for reflection while the work is happening, while the projects are being completed, providing feedback and then a final assessment at the end of each semester of the program. The way the program is set up, we had to figure it out as we go and we are always evolving, but it's a semester based program because we have departments across campus who may only want to hire an intern for one semester.
An example I provided was our library. They provide an internship for students to learn what a career in library science could look like. And so that internship is very much developed in a way that they're exposed to a variety of areas of the library and the operations here, but it's one semester and done.
Then there are other offices, for example, our own, we hire our own OCIP student to work on employer engagement and we love to get a really talented motivated student in place, but keep them as long as we can during their time at St. Lawrence. And so in order for the program to evolve with the students, the professional development and the added on components of it change each semester a student is involved.
So we've broken them down into cohorts. So we have cohort 1, OCIP 1, and they will kick things off with an orientation as they begin their role in their department. And I will discuss with them how to create learning goals, we will discuss expectations, how to get the most out of their internship so that they go into it knowing that this is an opportunity that they can get more out of than just their weekly paycheck as they're on campus job.
But that if they're intentional about it and that they really follow through and impress their supervisor, they're building their network, they're gaining skills, and then we teach them how to translate that into their resume and how to talk about it when they're talking about their OCIP experience. So that's probably a broad overview, but what I will add that I think is a question I always get with interested departments is, is the OCIP program your program in the Center for Career Excellence, or is it our program in the department hiring the intern?
And I think it's a legitimate partnership. We have nothing without the department that's willing to hire the students, supervise them, provide them with the work and the feedback, and then we add a layer of support so that ideally the student follows through, shows up on time and contributes good work to the department, but then also adds that professional development onto the position.
And one really key piece and I think what's appealing to students is that it's not only an on-campus paid job that they work their hours in the department, but all of the additional professional development time or the orientation they get paid for as well. And so we had to get that buy-in from those departments so that I verify with them, hey, pay that student two more hours this week because they took part in our work.
Meredith Metsker:
I love that emphasis on paid internships. I know that that is a big topic of discussion in the career services field right now on the importance of making those paid opportunities. So that's really cool that you've worked with the departments to make that a reality. And I know we'll dig into the budget side of things a bit later on, but I'm curious, what was the impetus for creating this? Why did you decide that this on-campus internship program was so important and so needed?
Sarah Coburn:
It evolved, as I mentioned, when I fell into a new role, working a little bit more focused on experiential learning. And one of the pieces that seemed really attainable for us was taking advantage of the opportunities that are already happening on campus. We knew there were some legitimate internship opportunities happening on campus, but they were a little under the radar and were we supporting those students enough?
And there was so much more opportunity to provide more of these opportunities. So we looked at what we had and really the driving force were a few things. One, we are a very rural institution in Upstate New York in the foothills of the Adirondacks, just minutes away from the Canadian border. And so there are not many opportunities in the local community for our students to pursue internship experiences as there can be at other institutions.
So one, we started look inward. The other piece was equity. As I mentioned, we knew there were some good internship opportunities on campus that were happening, but it might've been by word of mouth, or it might've been a student who happened to reach out or cross paths with that hiring supervisor. And we want all students to know about it. They hadn't stopped to think about what they could do right here on campus.
And then lastly, I think one of the key pieces is one, students who might not be able to pursue a summer internship opportunity. Maybe they need to have a paid job. They need to help pay for their tuition. They can't afford to do an unpaid internship, which so many happen to be, as we mentioned, is frustrating. But then also for students who might be seeking more competitive internship opportunities maybe after their junior summer or their junior year for that summer.
And so these OCIP opportunities were ways for students to provide some building blocks, maybe answer some questions about their own career exploration and interests, but really develop those key skills that might help open the door to a more competitive opportunity had they not had the internship experience on campus.
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah, I love that, especially considering how rural your area is that you all were really thinking about, well, what opportunities already exist and how do we connect more of our students who are looking for those opportunities to the ones that already exist, which sounds like a really efficient way to go about it. And on that note and on that equity note, you mentioned wanting to make sure that all students know that these internships exist. How do you go about marketing those or making students aware?
Sarah Coburn:
Since it was a new program, which we started marketing in the spring of '23 to launch in the fall of '23, we really tried to do it in a focused effort and branding the program. So we post all of the positions on Handshake. We label them as OCIP. We do our best in marketing, whether it's your Instagram, our weekly emails, posters, the variety of ways we try to connect with students on campus. But we did it as a whole so that students could stop and look and see the range of opportunities.
Whereas they might say, "Oh, I'm not interested in this one area, so that internship isn't relevant to me," they could look and see that the 2025 internships that are being shared, and there really is a nice range at this point. I think we hope to grow that. But by looking at them all at once, making that term OCIP a little bit more known on campus is the way we're trying at this point. I do think at some point in the evolution of the program that we might not have to do it.
It's like a one... This is the hiring timeframe, this is the interviewing timeframe, because I think it'll become more well-known in word of mouth across campus. But for now, we're trying to do it as a whole. But again, it's on Handshake. They're labeled. We try to make it as seamless as possible for the students to find and apply.
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah, that makes sense. You're putting it all in one place at one time so they know exactly what to expect and when.
Sarah Coburn:
Yeah.
Meredith Metsker:
So on the note of the internships, can you just talk to me a little bit more about, again, how many there are, what departments they're in, I know you mentioned a couple examples earlier, what kind of roles are included and so on?
Sarah Coburn:
Yeah. So we have to date with starting in the fall, we've had 32 OCIP roles across nine departments on campus. But those 32 positions, some hire multiple students. So we actually will have 80 students who have gone through at least OCIP 1 starting in the fall, which we're really proud of given that it's the first year and a half. And so students do continue to OCIP 2, OCIP 3 if they're staying in their roles or even taking on a new internship role. So we still see people continue.
We had a dozen, nearly 20 from semester to semester continue. So it's nice to see that there's value. The students are doing well. They're sticking with the roles. But some of the more popular internships that we've had, probably the most popular might be our law internship in our general counsel office, especially given that undergraduate law internships can be challenging to secure. So we had a great buy-in with our general counsel office right off the bat.
One existing internship that we folded into the OCIP program was a grant writing internship with the corporate and foundation grants office, which as many of us know is a really fabulous skill for people interested in going to nonprofit work. So that was one that we had full support from the supervisor to jump right in on the get-go of the OCIP program. We have education roles, both environmental education, wellness education, a variety of social media roles across campus.
We have a content creation internship for our first year program and getting our new students engaged. And then in athletics, we have several internships, a sports and media and communications internship, as well as game management interns for students interested in potentially the sports industry. So there is a range. We're excited about the range of opportunities, but I do think there's room still to continue to grow and hit some different areas.
So that will always be a goal for the program moving forward. And I did quickly pull a few position descriptions just to get some of that language of what we are creating and asking for the students and their responsibilities. So we have research and identify grant opportunities, conduct research and gather project information from multiple sources, US census data, institutional data.
We have social media management, development of print marketing, event planning and execution. We also have some of the education roles, creating lesson plans. We have working on initiatives with local K-12 schools and students through the environmental education role. Let's see, what else? Our business office finance intern does a lot of auditing work, Excel work, even want to collaborate the input data into the fuel sales tax spreadsheet.
Each position description outlines the type of work that we need them to do, but what we are trying to do, that research component, the analysis component, the creation of those output items that the students are going to be able to walk away from and say, "This is what I completed. This is what I did, and these are the skills I used to complete that work."
Meredith Metsker:
Yes, I love that emphasis on the skills, and it sounds like they're getting very legitimate real world skills that they can use to build on. So that's really cool. I am curious, and maybe you touched on this earlier, so I apologize if you've already said this, but when it comes to structuring these internships and coming up with these job descriptions, is that largely the departments that are doing that or is that your team? Is that a partnership? How does that work?
Sarah Coburn:
It's largely the departments with our support. I provide a few samples for the departments to about how to craft that position description. We do require for the work of the interns at least 50 hours a semester, which is not a huge number. It's pretty attainable for students. We even have a couple students who do two OCIPs or might be able to do an OCIP and balance it with another student job.
So it's pretty manageable. We ask them to provide the position description, but I would provide feedback as needed, but I haven't really had to do much of that because they're pretty thoughtful. And as we noted, the buy-in from the partners from across campus has been really tremendous so far. And so they're coming to the table really thoughtful about the work the students could do.
Meredith Metsker:
Right, because I'm sure they are very interested in finding the right fit. So on that note, I assume the internships are posted, multiple students are probably applying. So is there an interview process? What does that process for getting hired look like?
Sarah Coburn:
Yes. So I provide a suggested timeline to each department each semester. I just mapped out the one for the fall for spring hires. So after the deadline, just like any hiring process, I ask them to reach out to their candidates. I provide them with a packet just like I would any employer that was off campus. And I give them a date that I'd like them to let me know their selection by.
So in that window, they will then most I do believe reach out and do an interview for the students they're most interested in. And then just let me know who they select. At that point, I just let them know they're part of the OCIP program in addition to their internship and let them know that I'll be doing an orientation and keep an eye out for information from me.
But they still work with their department in terms of payroll paperwork and describing what their hours are going to be each week, so the supervisor and the student are happy with what they decide. So I'm not in the weeds on that component of it. I just do that added layer of professional development and orientation work.
Meredith Metsker:
Okay, gotcha. That makes sense. You just mentioned orientation, and I know you also do an end of semester evaluation. Can you tell me a little bit about the orientation and that end of the semester evaluation, the beginning and the end that you're involved in?
Sarah Coburn:
Yeah, sure. So as I mentioned, the orientation is really meant to set the tone, so that the students pause and think about the opportunity in front of them. I think it'd be easy to just say, "Oh, this is a campus job." We have campus jobs where you're letting people in the fitness center, or you're working at the cafe. But this is an opportunity, and I keep saying it, where they can really develop relevant skills that they can use to their advantage moving forward.
And so we pause and think about that and we pause and think about the power that this potential experience has, but also what could happen if you don't do well. And so I always use the example. I mean, I work in the career center, and so I work with employers and alumni all the time. And the student who comes to the meetings and looks at me and nods and smiles and asks questions and follows through on the tasks without being nagged, those names stick in my mind.
Those are the faces I remember. And those are the people that when they come to me or an alum or an employer comes to me and says, "Hey, I'm looking for this type of student," or the student wants to connect with someone, I am more than happy to make that connection because I know that student has impressed me, has followed through, and I'm confident in that.
And then there are students who might be looking at their phone or are disengaged or don't show up for work on time or don't fill out the evaluation, and that stuff sticks as well. And so I let the students know that, that they're working for people who have worked with hundreds of students and now hundreds of alumni that they can expand their network through.
But if they don't come to the table prepared and treating this opportunity as it probably should be treated, it's going to be a missed opportunity for them. And so that's the message we want to kick off in the orientation. But as I noted, we get a little bit more into what are learning goals, what are smart learning goals, what can you accomplish? We discuss what those requirements are for professional development. And I have a contract that outlines what they're agreeing to do for the semester.
We also have a confidentiality contract for... Again, in some of the departments, they're certainly going to be working with confidential information. Each individual department may also have a confidentiality agreement, but I like to have one blanket one for all OCIP students. And I think, I can't remember every detail in the orientation, but it's more so it's logistics, but it's really setting the tone to help motivate the students to get the most out of it.
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah, that makes sense. I'm sure it's good for them all to have the same kind of blanket reminder regardless of the position that they're taking on. You have to be professional. You have to show up. You got to participate. Do your best. All that.
Sarah Coburn:
You asked about the reflection and assessment.
Meredith Metsker:
Yes.
Sarah Coburn:
So the assessment is just an online survey that both the students and the supervisor complete, and we try to ask about their performance and the assessment of the work they've done. Again, both logistically in terms of are they showing up, are they following through? But also are they paying attention to the people in the room? Are they receiving feedback? Are they being resourceful?
And we're really pleased to see that in the first few semesters of evaluating, the responses have been very positive across the board. There's not really one area that's standing out more than another. So it seems really positive thus far. I do think there are some instances here and there where a supervisor might be struggling with a student or a student struggling with the department.
And so I'm that in between, and I share that with both the student and the supervisor at the beginning that I'm here to help negotiate some of that work. Because again, I make them sign a contract that say they're going to come to work, that they're going to follow through on the tasks that are required of them. So I'm just, again, another added layer. But so far the feedback and the evaluation has been really positive.
And at this point, the model is to do that evaluation at the end of each semester. And then if students continue on in the program, we'll do another one at the end of the next semester, but a way to keep a pulse on what's going on.
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I imagine it's good as always to get feedback from students and the supervisors to see if there's any opportunities for improvement in the next semesters.
Sarah Coburn:
Yes.
Meredith Metsker:
So that covers the beginning and the end as far as how you're involved. But in terms of the professional development element throughout the internship, what does that look like for you and your team? Are students doing their internship responsibilities and then coming to you for workshops or how does that work?
Sarah Coburn:
Yeah, it's a blend. I have been managing it on Canvas as another classroom environment where the students already are. And so there's a mix. The orientation is in person. For the OCIP 1 cohort, they have two requirements that are more independent project work. One is doing an online career exploration activity, a card sort that helped them think about their purpose and what they want to get out of the impact of their career, and to have them stop and be thoughtful about that.
Provide journal entry. We do have a mini conference for OCIP 1 and OCIP 2 students. And in the OCIP 1 mini conference, we do a career card sort as a group. And then we also did a diversity, equity, inclusion case study where we talked about the importance in value of recruiting within industry. And so that was a really great and powerful discussion with the students. And again, they required another project where they complete a LinkedIn Learning training on how to create an elevator pitch.
And then we actually have them record it on TalkMeUp, which is a platform we partner with. And so that all can be done on their own time, but I do bring them together for that mini conference so I have a couple hours with them in person. And that's the first semester professional development, and that's the heaviest. I think, in theory, what we want to do is give them the most support at the beginning and then try to compliment the work they're doing along the way.
And so for the second semester students, we actually did an Excel training, which I partnered with a staff member from across campus from our finance department who gave them a pretty in-depth overview of what you can do in Excel. And we will be also providing a NACE career competencies session centered around the purpose and possibilities of their time at St. Lawrence and beyond. And then again, elevate. Semester three, it's a networking workshop, and then they'll be required to do informational interviews with at least two contacts.
And then OCIP 4 will be interview preparation, and then we will do a mock interview event on campus with local employers or alumni. My theory at this point is if they get to OCIP 5, I will work one-on-one with them to figure out what works best. I think there'll be a pretty limited population with someone who stays through a full two years of a position. So at that point, I think I can sit down with those students and say, "Okay, what do you need from us," and we could design some work outside of the role that will help them.
Meredith Metsker:
Man, I love how holistic this whole program is and supportive too. This is a safe space for them to not only get their first internship experience, but to get this professional development training alongside at the same time so they can immediately apply it. That's so smart.
Sarah Coburn:
And get paid.
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah, and get paid. Yes. Yes. That's a key part.
Sarah Coburn:
They might not come because it's just their time.
Meredith Metsker:
Yes, that is true. On that note, how does the money and the budget for this program work? Who pays the interns? Is that you guys? Is that the departments? How does that go?
Sarah Coburn:
It is the departments. Really, like I said, it's a true partnership. I sometimes get a department that reaches out and says, "I want one of those." And I say, "Okay, well, do you have a budget to pay them?" And so we stop the conversation. But really it's taking existing student jobs on campus and folding them into this program. And one, you need the buy-in from the department to support and believe in this program, to provide the mentoring and the supervision and the position for the student.
But then also that they see the value in paying the student for this extra time, that it's part of their role, that it helps them as they work as their intern in their office. And so I've been lucky so far in terms of reach out and interest from across campus. We've had really tremendous support, and I think that will continue to grow. I did at the beginning of this program, so in that spring, actually fall '22, I just had open sessions on campus where I invited potential partners, just our fact stack email put out there.
I'm thinking about this program. If you hire interns or if you're interested in hiring an intern, come join the conversation. And we really just sat around the table and I threw out, "This is what I'm thinking. This is taking your internship role and adding a layer of support from our office. But we need you. We you to support it. We need you to pay the student. We need you to believe in that professional development time."
And so we just beat around ideas so that we could come to an agreement that I knew what they were comfortable investing in it above and beyond the internship work. And so that's where we landed in that OCIP 1 role that requires I think it's like four or five hours of additional professional development time, and then it's really just two hours beyond that in the additional semesters. And everyone said, "Yep, that's totally okay with us. We're good with that amount. We're happy to support it."
And so had I designed it in a way where I said, "This is what it is. When you come pay the students an extra 10 hours," or whatever it might be, they might not have been as supportive. But really all of the departments that kicked it off with us were part of those conversations and help me design what it looked like, what they were willing to support, and so then I could develop the program from there.
But yeah, really cost-wise, it's my staff time and I do most of the professional development, but I do partner with people across campus and also within the Center for Career Excellence. But financially, the burden's really carried from the departments across campus.
Meredith Metsker:
And to confirm, the departments are also paying for professional development time?
Sarah Coburn:
Yes.
Meredith Metsker:
Okay, cool. So again, on this same thread, this buy-in that you've had to get with departments across campus, especially since they're the ones paying the interns, how did you go about building those partnerships and getting that?
Sarah Coburn:
Yeah, it really came from... I think what it was is it was a history of success with some of those existing internships that already existed. And I do feel really fortunate that many of the departments and supervisors that are hiring see the value in our students, see the value in investing in them. They understand the bigger picture and what a program like this can do to support our students. We are a small community. We just have over 2,000 students, and I think very supportive.
And so obviously we're not hiring every department across campus, slowly getting there, but I do think that I've been lucky in either having conversations with the right people, but I also think it's just an environment here that's really supportive of our students. And I think five extra hours of paid time is not a lot in the grand scheme of things. And so they're able to look at that bigger picture and say, "Yeah, obviously we want to support the students in that role." And so this is a great way to do it.
And they might get a stronger student intern out of it who might be more effective and who can look at this position, again, more elevated and come to the table more prepared, come to the table with those expectations of what they want to get out of it. So I think it's a win-win.
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah, absolutely. You touched on this a little bit earlier, but as far as when you were starting to build out this idea and you worked in partnership with those departments to create this, but I guess what have you learned about that process getting that buy-in that you would take maybe the next time you need to pitch the idea to a new department?
Sarah Coburn:
I'm sorry, can you say that again?
Meredith Metsker:
Sure, yeah. I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of our audience who are maybe trying to think, okay, how do I do what Sarah has done when I initially pitch this idea? So if you were to go and approach a new department on campus tomorrow about starting an internship, what would you say to them?
Sarah Coburn:
I think it's a little bit of what I have shared. I think it's illustrating to potential hires that our students... It's twofold. One, they can contribute meaningful work to your office. We have talent right here who can contribute to what you're doing and bring new ideas and new perspectives. But then also we can help our students and we can help our students go on to do really great things. It's a real, again, win-win. I think that there's such opportunity, especially if the easier asks were also people who already were hiring student workers.
And so there is no added layer for them really other than to be a little bit more thoughtful about the work they're doing and what they could get out of the student and that little extra professional development time. It sounds like it might be a more intensive, bigger investment than it is, but it's pretty minimal for the impact it has for our students. And now it's getting easier because we're seeing success stories. We're seeing students do really powerful things. I had one supervisor reach out to me and said, "Can I nominate my OCIP for an award?"
Meredith Metsker:
Wow!
Sarah Coburn:
I was like, that's a really great idea, but I don't have an award. This is all new. And so that got me thinking. Every spring there are large campus events to celebrate our students and provide awards and recognition and said, "Why don't we have an OCIP of the year?" Supervisors can nominate their students and acknowledge the work they're doing and the impact they're having, the outcomes they have. So now I have those examples to share, which make it a little bit easier for me going into year two.
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah, I can imagine. On that note, you've shared a few anecdotal examples already, but what have been some of the outcomes or the results have you seen of the OCIP program?
Sarah Coburn:
It's still pretty new. I can speak to our own intern. We hired an intern in employer engagement to work on our Instagram social media presence, and she has been fabulous. We have seen our engagement shoot through the roof. She has partnered with other interns in the Center for Career Excellence in developing content. They're students. They know what students want.
They are able to deliver the message more directly and effectively than we ever could. And so we are reaping the benefits of that work right now and that's directly impacting us. Even our law internship with our general counsel, he has reached out. He doesn't want to let the student go. She is studying abroad, so he has to give her a break this next semester.
He said the work that she's able to help us with and research and support, it's stuff we couldn't have gotten done without her. And she's even navigated her way into working more directly with Title IX issues and our title IX director. And so the impact she's having is really relevant and important to the work they're doing in that area.
Meredith Metsker:
Not to mention she's going to have an amazing reference for future jobs and internships.
Sarah Coburn:
Yes, exactly. Certainly the supervisor who wanted to nominate the OCIP of the year just basically said, "Who can I talk to? Who can I tell about this student?" I said, "Stay tuned. I'm sure there'll be someone."
Meredith Metsker:
That's amazing. That's so cool. Kind of goes back to what you were saying earlier about just making sure students make the most of this opportunity because as you said, their supervisors are very well-connected.
Sarah Coburn:
And unfortunately, not everyone is perfect. We've had a few students jump in and not be able to follow through. And so again, we've just worked one-on-one to navigate that process and I think it really only happened in one situation. We are able to hire a new student for that role who's been fabulous. So there will be hiccups along the way, but for the most part really positive and very impactful.
Meredith Metsker:
That's so cool. It sounds like it's going really well so far. And I'm curious, what are your future goals for the program?
Sarah Coburn:
So future goals, I think I would love to see... And it's new. The program's new. OCIP, the term, is new, and so there's the branding that has to happen. I would like to see more student applications just to create a little bit more selectivity. I do hope to reach a wider range of opportunities. Because I've more put out calls to campus to see who's interested and who wants to engage.
I have done less targeting at this point just because we had such significant interest to kick things off and there's one of me managing it. But there are definitely areas across campus. For example, the arts. I'd love to do more with the arts, and there's plenty of opportunities on campus to do that. And so doing a little bit more targeting and developing some of those positions on campus.
I would love to do the OCIP of the Year Award. Again, it will help with branding. I think lastly, one area that I think is evolving, and we spoke about this in our brainstorming sessions when we started the program, is what to do with academic credit tied with these roles. And so we currently have an academic credit for internships that's overseen by our director in the experiential learning and employer engagement office.
And that's a quarter credit that's rolled on to the following semester. So if a student wants to get academic credit for this program for OCIP, they can. They can do that through the quarter credit option. Again, it's minimal credit, but there are cases where students might need a half credit for graduation. And if they've done a couple internships, it's a really easy way to get that.
So students can get it, but it is not connected at this point. It's not required. They're two separate programs. I don't know yet if I'm convinced that we want it connected with academic credit or not, and I think that's a piece that it's a moving target. I do think there's value in being able to put that on the transcript, that there is an OCIP academic credit. It's easier for departments that require experiential learning. They can see that the student did it.
There's a little bit more teeth into that follow through of the students. Right now if they don't do it, they don't get paid. And maybe they opt out of that and they don't want to see through the task. If it is like a pass/fail and they might not get their credit, there's a little bit more at stake there. So I think that piece, the academic credit component, is, like I said, evolving. And I don't know where it will land or what the options are on campus, but that's something that we still need to figure out as we go.
Meredith Metsker:
Well, it sounds like you've got lots of exciting potential things to add to the program, so curious to keep following along with all of that. Well, Sarah, you've offered a ton of great advice already, but is there any other advice you would have for other career leaders who may want to build a similar program?
Sarah Coburn:
I'm not sure how helpful I am on that front. I tried to do reach out when I started to get my head around a potential on-campus internship program, and I was surprised at how few I could find. And I couldn't find many models like the OCIP program that we developed. I did recently attend Eastern ACE and I learned that Suffolk University is actually doing a program that is very similar, so it's nice to now have some potential resources to connect with.
There is through a endowed fund, and so they are managing the budget side of it. It's a little bit different, but now it's nice to know that that exists. I think there were little bits and pieces of wisdom I stole from some models, but it was hard to find anything that was a lot like OCIP.
Meredith Metsker:
Well, audience folks who are watching and listening, now you know this is the place to come to learn more about an on-campus internship program.
Sarah Coburn:
Maybe more people will let me know. I just have come into one, but I'd love to pick brains of people who are doing similar work.
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah, we need to build a directory of good examples or something. Well, Sarah, I want to be mindful of our time here, so I'll start wrapping us up, but is there anything else you would like to add about our topic today that we haven't covered?
Sarah Coburn:
I don't think so. I think that it's really rewarding work to see the impact the students have in our departments across campus and seeing what they can take away from these opportunities. And so it's been really fun to create it, continue to tweak it as we go. And I'm excited to see how broad of a range of opportunities we can get where that quantity and quality match up as we grow. But yeah, I appreciate that I've had the opportunity to share some of the details.
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah, yeah, for sure. And on that note, if people would like to connect with you or learn more from you, where's a good place for them to do that?
Sarah Coburn:
LinkedIn would be great. Sarah Coburn, St. Lawrence University. You can find me there.
Meredith Metsker:
All right, perfect. And for those of you watching or listening, we'll be sure to include a link to Sarah's LinkedIn profile in the show notes along with a few other resources about this program that she's been kind enough to share. All right. So Sarah, final question. At the end of every interview, I like to do this answer a question, leave a question thing.
So I'll ask you a question that our last guest left for you, and then you will leave a question for the next guest. So our last guest was Dr. Audra Verrier from Loyola Marymount University, and she and I talked a lot about leadership. And so she left this question for you, what does vulnerable leadership mean to you?
Sarah Coburn:
Vulnerable leadership. To me, the first thing that jumps out in thinking about vulnerable leadership is self-awareness. I think self-awareness in my professional experience is really key on both sides, whether you're leading or you're part of a team, but being able to walk under a room and understand strengths and weaknesses of yourself, of those around you.
I was actually at Eastern ACE last week and I joined a discussion that Kelly Dougherty from Swarthmore College was leading about workplace environments, and she shared the quote of "speak first to understand, not to be understood" by Stephen Covey, which I thought really spoke to that concept of being able to walk into a room and know that you don't have the answers.
Kind of like we did with OCIP, which is come into a room and say, "This is our ultimate goal. How are we going to get there? And I don't know all the answers. And you need the team, and you need to be open to that." So I think that's probably my quick response to vulnerable leadership.
Meredith Metsker:
I love that. Yeah, that quote you just mentioned reminds me of Ted Lasso. Be curious, not judgmental.
Sarah Coburn:
Love Ted Lasso.
Meredith Metsker:
Me too. There's a good example of vulnerable leadership.
Sarah Coburn:
Yes. No kidding.
Meredith Metsker:
All right. Well, Sarah, what question would you like to leave for the next guest?
Sarah Coburn:
So when prompted with this, I immediately thought of a question that we ask our OCIP interns when we hire them, my colleague, Anne Warren, and myself. And then just recently we saw a TikTok that actually broke down the question.
Meredith Metsker:
Oh, interesting.
Sarah Coburn:
So it's pressed my mind. But the question is, what day of the week would you be and why?
Meredith Metsker:
Interesting. I feel like the why would be a very interesting reasoning to hear.
Sarah Coburn:
Yeah, interesting. Anne and I both, we had very quick responses. We knew what day the week we were. We had our justification. I will say I didn't line up with the TikTok I saw, but it was interesting to process.
Meredith Metsker:
Well, now I have to know. What day of the week are you, Sarah?
Sarah Coburn:
I'm a Thursday. I'm a Thursday. I like to get things done. I like delayed gratification, get the work done, head into the weekend. And so Thursday to me represents that day of getting the work done and turning that leaf over into the weekend.
Meredith Metsker:
I love that. I love that. I'm not sure what I would be. I feel like I might be a Saturday, because that's the truly free day of the weekend.
Sarah Coburn:
My colleague is a Sunday.
Meredith Metsker:
Okay, I love that. It's a great question. All right, well, Sarah, thank you so much for taking the time to join me on the podcast today. This was a fun conversation, so much great tactical advice. I know our audience is going to appreciate as they think about starting formal programs like you have or just trying to build those partnerships with employers across campus. So thank you again for taking the time to share your experience and your wisdom.
Sarah Coburn:
Thank you, Meredith.