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The Madness of Power and Prophecy: A Chat with Denver Riggleman
Buckle up, folks! Today’s episode is a wild ride through the chaos that’s unraveling in U.S. politics and global diplomacy, with the ever-brave Denver Riggleman—former Congressman, Air Force vet, NSA contractor, and fearless truth-teller. Prepare for some truth bombs about the insanity, the threats, and the grift that’s turning this country into a giant episode of “How Did We Get Here?”
Riggleman drops truth bombs, connecting the dots between prophecy, power, and national security, all while lamenting the state of American leadership; Joel asks the hard questions and teases out a path back to sanity—maybe, just maybe, saving the damn country.
Main Topics Covered:
- The bizarre and dangerous world of Christian nationalism and prophecy that is fueling political decisions
- The potential and peril of military actions against Iran
- The influence of greed, grift, and the military-industrial complex on U.S. foreign policy
- The decline of trust in American institutions and the urgent need for courageous leadership
Connect with Denver Riggleman:
Hold onto your hats, folks. It’s a wild ride—truth, grift, and the fate of democracy all tangled up in one bold conversation. Would we dare to fix it? Denver says, “Full stop, fire everyone, and rebuild from zero.” Sounds about right. Tune in, laugh, cry, and maybe get inspired to demand real leadership again.
The Hot Dish is brought to you by the One Country Project. To learn more, visit OneCountryProject.org, or find us on Substack (Onecountryproject.substack.com), and on YouTube, Bluesky, and Facebook (@onecountryproject).
- (00:00) - Introduction to the Conversation
- (01:48) - The Insanity of Current Politics
- (06:02) - The State of the Republican Party
- (10:16) - Trump's Mental State and Threats
- (12:00) - Iran: An Imminent Threat?
- (14:41) - The Price of War and Accountability
- (17:53) - The Future of American Politics
- (21:41) - A Call for Leadership and Change
Creators and Guests
What is The Hot Dish?
Former U.S. Senator Heidi Heitkamp and her brother, KFGO radio talk show host Joel Heitkamp, engage in animated discussions with newsmakers, elected leaders, and policymakers who are creating new opportunities for rural Americans and finding practical solutions to their challenges. Punctuated with entertaining conversations and a healthy dose of sibling rivalry, The Hot Dish, from the One Country Project, is informative, enlightening, and downright fun.
Joel (00:04)
Hey everybody, welcome to the hot dish comfort food for rural America. I'm Joel Heitkamp. Heidi couldn't be here today. So you know what? You're stuck with me. It's going to be fun. I've got a good friend on today, somebody that I've gotten to know, ⁓ former Congressman Denver Riggleman. Now ⁓ he's somebody that hasn't been afraid to call either party out, which is something that I just love and respect about the guy.
⁓ In addition to representing Virginia in the house now Denver is a former Air Force officer and a national security agency contractor and he worked for the January 6 committee as a senior staff member as well Denver welcome to the hot dish good to have you on
Denver Riggleman (00:45)
It's good to see you, Joe. Thanks for having me, buddy.
Joel (00:47)
Let me just ask it this way, what in the hell has happened to our world?
Denver Riggleman (00:51)
⁓ You know, it's an interesting thing. When I saw President Trump's post, Joel, about Iran, and I know we're recording this a little bit before we know exactly what's going to happen tonight. ⁓ But what I'm looking at is just complete insanity. And you almost run out of words when you're looking at what's happening with some of the bizarre behavior that's going on. Because not only, Joel, do you have this ⁓ end of civilization talk from Donald Trump and Iran, you also have
Chady Vance over in Hungary with Orban, really acting as a Russian agent and talking about the Ukrainians trying to change our elections or trying to meddle in our elections, which is really a precursor for what happened in 2020. I feel like today, and here's what's really weird about the day that we're taping, right? 47th president, 47 years Iran. About 10 years ago, there was a prophecy that the 47th president would actually be the one with Israel to take down Iran in the 47th year.
Joel (01:29)
Yeah.
Denver Riggleman (01:48)
And that's now been going around Christian nationalist channels. And today what we're hearing is the reason he said today is the day. This is another, this is how crazy it is because it's four seven. and he's the 47th president and today was the day he was supposed to announce it. So that's some of the things that are going on in the insanity in this sort of, ⁓ this bedrock of Christian nationalism and rapture talk that's going on right now throughout the white house and throughout, I would say members of Congress.
Joel (02:18)
As if I wasn't scared enough. Now you've got to tell me all of that. mean, geez, Congressman, mean that that and it doesn't surprise me. You know, if you would have told me this during any other administration, heck, during Trump 1 for example, I wouldn't have said, yeah, OK, a lot of coincidences there. But with this now, I'm really afraid of what tomorrow might bring.
Denver Riggleman (02:44)
Well, you know, it's it. don't think a lot of people that are sane monitor the far right nationalist channels. And you know me right. I mean, I track the people after January 6th and my whole background was counterterrorism. And we talked about NSA, but I worked joint operations and had my own companies doing this also after my Air Force intelligence career. And, ⁓ you know, I think that's the thing, Joel, is we have to look at this, that we're having foreign policy based on rapture politics. And I think that's something that
we have to face as a nation is that when that's happening, ⁓ what does that mean for us as a country, our citizens? But I feel like today is one of those days like, is this the end of decency and democracy? When we have somebody talking about genocide or president and JD Vance, ⁓ parroting SVR talking points, Russian intelligence and Russian service talking points. can't, it's hard for me to wrap my head around right now, Joel. And then, and then you're looking at the far right national channel saying, well,
47th president, 47 years it was prophecy on 47. Now you're starting to look at what insanity really means in the United States.
Joel (03:49)
Well, okay, so you're sitting here and you hear these things and you read these things and news actually tells you these things. And if you do your homework at all and you see what's being said, it begs the question when he's talking about wrecking a people, you know, what he's talking about destroying all the people in a country when he's sitting there talking about a whole civilization being destroyed.
Is he mentally well? I mean, you've had to deal with a lot of people in your life, Congressman. I is he mentally? I'm not talking about all the the eagle, the you the you didn't do your homework. I'm not talking about that. Is he losing it is what I'm asking.
Denver Riggleman (04:38)
You know, we have personal family ⁓ issues and Joel, know, lot of families go through it where you're dealing with parents with dementia, where you're dealing with older loved ones with dementia. And I think a lot of it has to do with, there are 80 year olds that are cogent. don't think, I don't know if people know his birthday is coming up in two months, Joel, he's going be 80 years old. But I think when you live a life of such sordid immorality,
When you feel like you're hubris, your, your narcissism has been something to drive things and you combine that with dementia. I think you have this, what, you know, this mad King persona, where you're to a point that there's not one person willing in the Republican portion of Congress, right? Whether in the house or the Senate to stand up and say, we, he's got to go like this. We're now to a point that we've crossed the Rubicon and into insanity and to absolute madness. And I, and I have to say.
I think what we're looking at is that there's a significant portion of Republican congressional members that are down the Christian nationalism line, but they're also down to get elected even if there's, you know, the destruction of a people. Now, I'm not going to say it's going to be nuclear warheads. I don't want people to get over their skis on that. But I do think it's possible that they take out a significant portion of critical infrastructure that could put a lot of civilians at risk. And if that's the case, what are we as a country, Joel? What has happened to us? What are we?
We become no better than a Russia. We become no better than China with the Uighurs. We just become this awful sort of grotesque shell of what we used to
Joel (06:12)
So you were in that room though. I mean, you served in that caucus. You know what it's like to be on the floor of the United States Congress when you're alone. You know, I can only imagine what said by fellow Republicans when you're alone, people that you served in that caucus with. mean, aren't they afraid of the very things we just talked about? Aren't they afraid for their country?
Denver Riggleman (06:38)
Yeah, but it's more important for them still to be looked at as loyal. These are not sought of the earth people, I mean, there's a reason you see Don Bacon and Mike McCall getting out. I mean, really the last two sane Republicans, you could almost make a case that now you just have a caucus of nutters, right? And alien believers. mean, today we're talking about what Donald Trump said about Iran and there's reporting going on in newspapers that
Tim Burchard from Tennessee, who I knew personally, said that aliens are going to be exposed. going to come out. They're going to show us what they are. And I'm thinking, we become just this unserious, dangerous country. We're like a five-year-old. No, I'll put this. We're like an eight-year-old that failed kindergarten three times and is still stealing people's milk money with a bazooka. I mean, that's what I feel like we are. We're just dumb and slobbering and wandering around and screaming into the heavens.
looking for things to populate in our brains that are fantasy instead of fact. And I think that, again, that's where we're at as a
Joel (07:44)
I on my radio show, I had a conversation ⁓ today with a guy named I think it was Greg that called in. You know, they only give their first name, which is all they have to do, quite frankly, and they don't even need to give that. But Greg had served in the military and he was and we all know Greg. I mean, I have no doubt, Denver, this is going to draw an image in your head of somebody in your life. ⁓ But Greg ⁓ came on. had served in the military, served his country, was very, very proud of that. ⁓
And he talked about how he was. He's not a Democrat. He's not a Republican. First off, he doesn't trust either party. He made that absolutely known. And then he started talking about the current president, about Donald J. Trump. And he just slowly, slowly, slowly built up to it until he ended with, I don't think he's right in the head. And that was the way obviously he talked, you know, but
There was just such a sincerity to this man as somebody that wasn't picking his side, just looking at it from the outside in. And he, I got to tell you Denver, he really, really, you know, said something that stuck with me, which is what everybody's thinking. But that old vet had the guts to say it.
Denver Riggleman (09:03)
Ignorance and I would say ignorance and insanity are weapons of mass destruction. Stupidity is terminal. And when you're looking at Donald Trump, I believe the best part of his brain's leaked out of his ears a long time ago. And I think right now what you're saying is a husk of just rambling narcissism and malignant awfulness that's coming out. And again, there's no way to deny it.
If you're Republican, Democrat, Independent, I don't care which way you lean, when you see it in front of you, you see that the slurring nuttiness of dementia or the slurring nuttiness of malignant narcissism that's, well, I mean, his cheese slid off his cracker. I mean, that's just where we're at,
Joel (09:46)
You know, by the time ⁓ people get a chance to ⁓ see and hear this podcast, the hot dish will know, will know whether he followed through on what was his latest threat to basically destroy a civilization. ⁓ At what point do you think that all of these predictions or all of these threats? Let me say it that way. All of these threats start mounting up to the point where he's just going to have to do it or else he's going to look like even a bigger idiot.
Denver Riggleman (10:16)
Um, you know, some of the things he's done, Joe, think he's, he always has this ability to pivot, you know, um, I've always said, you know, that inconsistency is a feature, not a bug of this administration. And it's the same with conspiracy theories and propaganda. It really is about how hard can they hit their base in the amygdala, right? With the crazy baseball bat. And I think that's what they're doing. I think what he would do is pivot and say, Iran's come to the table, uh, based on my threat. are in talks with them and just push that new cycle down the, down the road because
There's nobody in the, I would see in the traditional media today that are willing to ask the hard questions because they don't want to get kicked out of the room. know, it's access over facts. And they, you know, they believe that somehow they can keep slow rolling this and kicking the can. I think, but I do think what he's already done, when you see the destruction that he's vetted on Iran and Iran's counterattacks with drones and you know, I'm pretty good with this, know, drones and ballistic missiles, ⁓ spraying that across the Middle East, he's already created such damage.
⁓ such generational damage to the United States, ⁓ that I think he's just going to continue to kick the can down the road until there might be a time. And this is the scary part. We don't know how much crazier he's going to get you'll. It's very difficult to do analysis on insanity. And that's the thing that I'm having a tough time with. How do you, how do you base normal operational and intelligence of an analysis on Donald Trump? I, I don't know how you do that.
Joel (11:45)
So, Congressman, you served this country. You know what national security is all about in many different capacities. You served this country. Do you believe Iran was an imminent threat?
Denver Riggleman (12:00)
You know, it's such a personal question to me. You know, I tracked Soleimani in 2006, 2007. I was the lead of the signals intelligence portion, the NSA portion of the counter IED cell, the COIC, the Counter IED Operations Integration Center. And I tracked Iranian resupply into Iraq. So there's nothing in some respects personally as a military member. I'm going to separate this, Joel, and I hope you help me here. As a military member, seeing what happened to Khomeini, I was like, good.
Denver Riggleman (12:29)
nothing that happened to Khomeini could have been good enough for him. I mean, I was very happy to see that personally based on the things that I had to do.
even when Soleimani was killed in 2020. However, my personal issue as a former military member who fought this has to be separated with the adults in the room issue of what the imminent threat of that country is at the time and what the policy implications are of anything that we do downstream. Just because you have a bad person or threat doesn't mean you want to use bad policy or mission planning to affect something against that threat.
And if you're the adult in the room and looking that we've already said, we obliterated Iran's nuclear capability, which was a lie in hindsight. And first of all, this administration always lies. We have to be careful that we can separate personal from what's best for the American public. And at this point, there was no way that Iran was an imminent threat. We can go back 47 years, state sponsored terrorism, Shia militia groups. We can do it over and over again, what they've done. However, at this point,
There was no way they were an imminent threat. And when you see the reporting, and again, you have to source it, but if Israel and Saudi Arabia are asking for us to do the deed that we did in Iran, it seemed that this is more of a personal financial stake for the Trumps rather, and I know this for a fact, by the way, with what I've done. This is a personal financial play based on their massive investments in the military industrial complex and how much their money they're making off this war right now. So no, I don't think there was an imminent threat. I think this was a personally motivated war.
And think it was a transactional war. And as much as I enjoy going after our enemies as a military member, I think this was just not just ill timed, but maybe one of the worst things we could have done as a country at that time based on what we're seeing.
Joel (14:18)
What price do you think, you know, we can talk about the gain, we can talk about his son Baron becoming a billionaire based off of much of what you just described, just the the grifting, the corruption, the the evilness of it. But in terms of price, what price do you think Trump is paying for and going to pay for with this war?
Denver Riggleman (14:41)
No, I'm to a point that we've had so little accountability. You got to remember I was on the January 6th committee. I think what happens is that with his health, I think he dies in office. ⁓ I think the Trump family also, they've already won in some respects. If you look at, I did a six-part series on my sub-stack, just follow the money. What I used to do in my counterterrorism days with OFAC office, and I think people know who that is, but with OFAC. ⁓
the Department of Treasury and doing follow the money from foreign terrorist flows. The Trump family right now, I did a six part series there right now connected into $20 to $50 billion in drone contracts and flow throughs. $620 million loans from the Office of Strategic Capital. They have invested in every portion of the drone supply chain and future warfare. And they have done this in the open transparently and just mined the American taxpayers. And now they have multi-year contracts.
with Palantir, with Anderl, with Unusual Machines, which they also own, with Extend, which was an Israeli drone company, with Power Us, another drone company, and with Red Cat. So I can just keep going on and on and on how many fingers that the Trump family has in all the pies of drone warfare, advanced warfare, AI automation, swarm technologies. And I've been telling people, they did what they wanted to do. They've already sort of succeeded in their mission. Now they're playing the long game.
And now they're completely, the whole Trump family is completely intersected and intertwined with the entire military industrial complex. And it's one of the most disturbing things I've seen. I've never seen such self, ⁓ just not just self enrichment, but a taking from the American taxpayers and the levels we're seeing today. It's breathless. I'm breathless.
Joel (16:27)
What about the
American people, though, that price? And let me give you an example. You know that I do a talk show and you've been on with me before on the radio. I can't get people to defend him now like they used to it. It makes for great radio when they do, because then we can spar. We can get after each other and call bullshit on each other. But I can't get people to defend him with the passion they used to. And I don't know if you're seeing that.
Denver Riggleman (16:55)
I am. I'm MAGA is infected. You know, he's gone against ⁓ the nationalism portion of it, right? The isolationism, the Epstein stuff is still haunting him and the downstream effects of the health cuts and the economy, those three pillars have collapsed underneath of them. you're seeing, what was his, Joel, his favorability rate was what, 32 % or something like that? It's insanely low. ⁓ I think what you're saying though is, you know, he still has this base, this rabid base, a sort of frothing MAGA.
And I'm just going to say it like that now, because there's no other way to support this guy. But I do think, again, that there's so many people that support him because he's such a mark also for all these individuals to make billions of dollars by looting the American taxpayer. I think what we've done is we've destroyed the pillars of our country for generations. I just don't know how we get back. We're almost 40 trillion in debt. It continues to go up. We have an economy that's in free fall. It's in a flat spin. And I'm looking around, and I feel like we're arranging deck chairs in the Titanic right now.
And I think the only optimistic thing is can we get to the 2026 midterms and do we have Democrats? you know, I never thought I would say these things, Joel, you know me, man, but do you think we have Democrats that have, you know, the low hanging fruit to do what needs to be done? And I just don't think they do. It feels like we have two corporate parties that have, that are so damaged that we got to have other ways in order to fix the problem. And I agree with Greg. I don't think you can trust either party, but I think the Democrats are in a position.
that they can do some good if they have the guts to do it. ⁓ I'm for them. I'm backing them to do something like that. just, past performance has been great.
Joel (18:35)
Yeah. Well, as an independent, I can see where you're looking for just leadership. I struggle ⁓ with the voices that the Democratic Party are bringing forward to say that these are. I'm talking at the congressional level now. I think that the leader, the leadership from the Democratic Party is coming from the gubernatorial level. And thank God, you know, I think it's desperately needed. And I think that I could rattle off four or five governors that are really coming through when it comes to the sake of the country. ⁓
Denver Riggleman (18:49)
Of course.
Joel (19:04)
But I want to talk about where you served in uniform. So you've been in rooms where national security has been talked about. You served in a suit and tie in the halls of Congress. You've been in rooms where national security has been talked about. Can you possibly imagine a briefing where you're going to attack Iran and no one has brought up or talked about the Strait of Hormuz?
I mean, can you possibly imagine how he's being served? Or do you think that he just didn't get it? He just didn't understand.
Denver Riggleman (19:41)
I don't think Trump cared. You know, it's so funny, We try to think about this. I mean, he probably thought Hormuz was something you put on a cracker. I mean, he's just not a bright... He's very cunning. He knows how to manipulate the ignorant and mind them because that is him. He's perfected this grift. He's perfected this persona for decades. But I just don't think he understood the ramifications. You know, I was in Russell K. Ma, which is...
the northern part of UAE looking over the Strait of Hormuz not seven, eight months ago. And, you know, and I don't think people realize, you know, you got UAE, then you have, you know, Iran right there, right, right across. And then you have Qatar and then you have Oman, right? You have UAE, Qatar, Oman. And I've been to all of those areas on those fricking right there on the beaches, like looking towards Iran. And I just don't think people understand the vastness of the Strait of Hormuz, but also how narrow it
at the same time. It is such a brilliant strategic ⁓ area for Iran to maximize. And how do we stop fast boats dropping mines? There's 21 different types of Shaheds. There's jet power Shaheds. It goes 600 kilometers per hour. People know that. Or they can hold 200 kilogram bombs. Boy, you don't want that going into the side of an oil tanker.
It's all these things that I think President Trump can even understand, but I think he has such an incompetent staff. And I think they've let go of so much talent that the husk of what they used to be the mission planning portion and the strategic look of the military, whether it's any of the services or the intelligence services like CIA, NSA, NRO, NGA, right? The 17 intelligence services, I think have been so hollowed out that we still have really fantasy over fact. And we have ideology.
on the rapture side really still controlling the decision making, which again puts us in an awful position.
Joel (21:41)
So, fix it. I mean, if it were up to you and you got to be the grown-up in the room, you got to open that door, sit down and say, okay, this shit ends now, here's what we're going to do. What would you do?
Denver Riggleman (21:53)
Vice President.
Joel (21:54)
Mm-hmm if you were if you had the presidency or I don't care fix it. What would you do?
Denver Riggleman (22:00)
If the president turned sane all of a sudden, and it wasn't Trump, I don't know what you would, because he wouldn't listen to me. I would have to have a president or I would have to be the president, that as soon as I walk in the room, the first thing I do is a complete cessation of hostilities. Reach out to Iran, say, what's going on here? Look at what we actually did before. Look at our mission planning, our intelligence assessments, have a complete reset.
Joel (22:02)
Mm-hmm.
⁓
Denver Riggleman (22:28)
on the decision tree that we actually utilize. The other thing I would do is go directly to the contract actions that Trump has allowed to happen downstream and say, who actually has taken these contracts? Have they been actually following federal acquisition regulations? Why are we fighting this war? Who is profiting off of this war? What have we done here? What have we done outside of normal channels, outside of established professional intelligence and military operational channels? What have we done here to circumvent that?
to go against Iran after we already said we obliterated their nuclear stockpile. Why did we do this now? We've had multiple different answers from the administration. That's what I would do. It would be a complete cessation of hostilities right now. Right now, it would be full stop. Everybody is locked down, locked down the bases, go into a DEFCON position. I'm sorry, it's threat con now. Into a threat composition on defensive posture on the bases, and then downstream, look at all the decisions made from the national security.
⁓ authority and fire every one of those sons of bitches. I'd fire them all down the line. Every single one. And I would, every single person they had put in their undersecretaries fired too. Every single one would be fired. And I would go back into the people who were left, who were fired, the actual competent individuals, and I would beg them to come back into our, I would recall them. I wouldn't even beg them. I'd say, you're coming back. Whatever it takes, we have to fix what's going on. That's what I would do. It would be a complete full stop.
full fire and full rehire of the people that I wanted in my administration. That's what I would do,
Joel (23:57)
So where do I send that check? I mean, the regimen for president check, because clearly you got a plan. I have all these images of movies and things that I've seen where somebody actually grown up comes in a room and says this ends now. It ends right now. And the country needs that. And so last question, I promise. How long is how long is it going to take to get our
Denver Riggleman (24:22)
I love it. No, I enjoy being.
Joel (24:27)
our status back with the rest of the world. And what is it going to take?
Denver Riggleman (24:34)
I don't think we'll ever be trusted. I don't think we'll be trusted for decades. I wish I had an exact number, but you still, the thing is about trust in the United States is even if we have a democratic president, our institutions have been so rattled. They've been so rotted from the foundation up that the rebuild will take courage on a level we have never seen, ever. That means a president who's willing to travel to every country we've wronged to rebuild the bridge to NATO, to make sure Ukraine is a part of NATO.
to fund and arm NATO to a point that Russia has absolutely brought to their knees, to identify Russia again as an enemy, to identify those in NATO who are poisonous like Hungary is an enemy. Is there a democratic president or is there an independent? Is there somebody with that kind of just courage? It's going to take courage. It's going to take intelligence. It's going to take surrounding them with the right people. And it's going to take a president that's humble enough to go to the countries and say, yes.
We're a trillion dollar budget, a defense budget. are a 25, 28 trillion dollar economy, but we wronged you and we want to, we have to fix it. And I think it's building those Bridgets with humility and strength and intelligence with the right people is going to take a special person. A person I don't know exists ⁓ in the current democratic architecture, a Republican that didn't exist, think it was the Republicans. There's a couple Democrats that maybe, ⁓ but it'd have to be somebody with that kind of
that kind of courage and I just, don't know who that would be.
Joel (26:06)
Well, I hope you think of them fast. I've got some people in mind ⁓ and I'll send them a check as well. But ⁓ I hope we find them fast. If people want to find your work, Congressman, where can they follow you? What can they do?
Denver Riggleman (26:12)
Absolutely.
X is pretty easy. It's a cancerous platform, but I'm on Denver at the number four VA, Denver four VA. Blue Sky is just Denver Wrigleman. Substack is Denver Wrigleman. YouTube is the Breach Media, but I try to keep it really simple, Joel, because I'm a simple man. I'm a simple man, Joel. But Denver Wrigleman on Substack. Something I'm very proud of is just looking at SEC reporting and public reporting.
What the Trumps have done, I did write about the drone warfare and how the Trumps have taken over that advanced warfare vertical. And it's one of the scariest things I've seen from a presidential family ever. I think it makes Nixon look like a toy. It's incredible.
Joel (27:01)
Well,
keep doing what you're doing. The country needs you. You've served in different capacities. Keep doing this one. I want to thank you for coming on the show today, Denver. And I want to thank all of you for joining us today on the hot dish. We're brought to you by one country. You can learn more about us at one country project dot org and be sure to follow us on Substack, YouTube, Facebook and Blue Sky. We'll be back next week with more hot dish comfort food for rural America.
Denver Riggleman (27:06)
Thanks Joe.