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In-the-trenches content marketing advice from the world's best content marketing agency. Hosted by Ty Magnin, CEO, and Tim Metz, Director of Marketing and Innovation.
Matt Hummel [00:00:00]:
To me, that's where the world is heading. Getting out face to face is so important. You
cannot replicate the trust that happens when you meet face to face. A lot of people are
still working remote, and so it's almost like, oh, somebody wants to take me to dinner
and come hang out? Absolutely. I don't get that engagement anymore.
Ty Magnin [00:00:18]:
Welcome to the Animals Podcast. I'm Ty Magnon, the CEO at Animals.
Tim Metz [00:00:23]:
And I'm Tim Metz, the director of marketing and innovation.
Ty Magnin [00:00:26]:
This season on the Animals Podcast, we're pulling back the corporate curtain to show
you how the largest, most complex b to b SaaS teams actually get content out the door.
Hear from content leaders of some of the biggest names in SaaS, sharing the systems
they've built, the battles they've fought, and the lessons they've learned along the way.
Today, we're talking with Matt Hummel. Matt runs marketing at Pipeline three sixty after
two decades leading brand strategy at Deloitte and demand at Demandbase. But Matt
isn't your average marketing leader. Today, we're talking about how Matt has been
running a unique distribution playbook for his content. Matt's playbook involves him
literally boarding a plane to hand deliver assets to prospects and customers. And I think
there's a lot to learn and sort of stretch your mind around content distribution from this
special episode.
Ty Magnin [00:01:17]:
So I'm excited for you to learn from Matt about his bold, unscalable approach that we
dubbed the flying distribution engine. If you're like most b to b content marketers, you
wanna lead the conversation in your industry. At Animals, we help b to b software
companies do exactly that by creating standout survey driven state of the industry type
reports that help you grow your brand authority, backlinks, and pipeline. In just twelve
weeks, we run a process that helps uncover narratives from a unique dataset packaged
into a beautifully designed flagship content asset that your whole team is gonna be
proud of. Book a consult now at animals.co/whitepapers and find out how to set the
new benchmark for your industry. Matt Hummel, thanks so much for joining us. Would
you give us your intro? And then, the question we ask to all of our guests is what content
are you consuming lately?
Matt Hummel [00:02:11]:
Awesome. Well, thank you for having me on the show. It's great to be here. And, so yeah,
a little about me, Matt Hummel. I have been doing really B2B marketing my entire
career. Started out, I got a marketing degree and my career has really been split in two
halves. First half was really primarily around brands and professional services
marketing. And then, the second half's really been more around demand and tech.
Matt Hummel [00:02:35]:
And so in my most current position, I'm running marketing at Pipeline three sixty, and I'm
getting to kind of do it all. So we're very much a, you know, a company that's focused on
di^erentiating our brand, but obviously driving demand is is wildly important. So it's
been a great opportunity to kinda bring both of those things together. It's a little
services, a little tech, kind of all bundled into one. So that's a little about me. And what
content have I been consuming recently? So there's actually a couple books, I've been
reading. One's called the I've got them over here on my desk, The Storytelling Edge and
Everybody Writes. And I've really just been kind of consuming content that I can find
around both storytelling, but also really using storytelling to build and di^erentiate a
brand.
Matt Hummel [00:03:19]:
I think for better or for worse, the importance of brand kind of disappeared over the past
five to seven years from a perception standpoint. I don't think the importance of it
actually truly went away, but I think more and more B2B marketers focus simply on
demand. We've got to drive revenue. And so brand is back and I know we're going to talk
through some of that today. So I've just really been honing in on how can I learn from
some people who've done this really, really well to to really create memorable and
impactful brands? Awesome.
Ty Magnin [00:03:51]:
And, yeah, I see some of that coming through for Pipeline three sixty and you've been
obviously, a member of other pretty well known marketing brands. I like to think you,
Matt, as, like, a marketer's marketer. I mean, you've been doing a lot of MarTech
marketing. Right?
Matt Hummel [00:04:06]:
Absolutely. Yeah. I spent time at, at Demandbase prior to this. And so that was really my
my foray in if you will into into MarTech. But, yeah, I mean, I've worked for some great
brands from Deloitte, you know, Thompson Reuters to name a couple. And so I like that
a marketer's marketer that and actually that, you know, that ties directly into, you know,
I know our topic at hand, and and it's it's what has been it's what has made this role in
particular really fun.
Ty Magnin [00:04:31]:
Awesome. Well, let's talk about the topic at hand.
Matt Hummel [00:04:35]:
Let's do it.
Ty Magnin [00:04:36]:
Holding on to this podcast for I don't know. We've known each other for more than six
months, seven months. We've kind of been talking about this idea for six, seven months.
Yeah. And it just struck me over the head when you told me, like, one of your most
important go to market motions is, what you're doing around distributing white papers.
And we are referring to it on this podcast, at least. Hopefully, we can take it beyond as
the flying distribution engine.
Matt Hummel [00:05:07]:
That is a that's a great name, and our buddy our buddy Tim's responsible for that.
Correct? Yes. Yes. Well done, Tim. I think marketing I see a future for you in marketing.
Tim Metz [00:05:18]:
Yeah. We can talk about it.
Ty Magnin [00:05:20]:
Yeah. Help the audience understand. What the hell are we talking about, Matt?
Matt Hummel [00:05:24]:
Yeah. So, you know, it's it's it's a little bit ironic because Pipeline three sixty is a you
know, at its core, of course, we don't position ourselves as this, but we we we're a
content syndication provider. So, you know, we syndicate white papers and other forms
of content through, you know, common syndication practices. Yet for us, you know, we
have seen great success outside of that channel getting out on the road. And so twice a
year, we have created a white paper through market research. So we surveyed more
than 500 B2B marketers. We've all around a topic of pipeline growth and B2B marketing
and just really the challenges. And it's been a very relevant topic, obviously.
Matt Hummel [00:06:09]:
There's so many things that have sort of shaped the current world of marketing from the
economy to, you know, MarTech to you've got downsizing and budget cuts and yet goals
are going up. And so it's it's really been it's been a great opportunity for us through this
research to put together a really compelling story. And for Pipeline three sixty in
particular, you know, our business is really won and lost through relationships. And so
getting to take this content out and deliver it in person is really what, you know, what
you're referring to as what did you call it? The, the flying content? The flying content.
Tim Metz [00:06:41]:
The flying distribution engine.
Matt Hummel [00:06:43]:
Yeah. So that's, you know, in essence what I've done. It's, you the short version is over
the last eighteen months or so, I've probably met with 600 or 700 di^erent marketers
throughout really the world delivering this research. And it's not just me presenting, it's
really become more of an interactive and engaging way to connect with our customers
and prospects.
Ty Magnin [00:07:05]:
So crazy. How many flights do you think you've taken, to do this distribution?
Matt Hummel [00:07:09]:
Oh, man. Well, I'm not one k yet, so it's not been, you know, my wife my wife would say
it's been 500. It's probably been, like, fifty, sixty. I don't know. It's probably somewhere in
between, if I'm being honest. But, it's been a lot. And thankfully, you know, my wife and
kids have been super supportive of it, but it's also just it's very seasonal. So we release a
report beginning of year and kind of end of year, and so kind of take it out to market in
spring and fall.
Matt Hummel [00:07:39]:
So I definitely am not out on the road full time, but during the those seasons, it's
definitely I get shipped out quite a bit to go get to deliver this. Marketer marketer is what
it really is.
Ty Magnin [00:07:51]:
Right. Let's talk about the nuts and bolts in this thing. So I'm really curious to know from,
like, step one. It's like you're booking these meetings. Right? I'm sure some of them are
recurring, like, hey, guys. I'm back in Paris next week. You know? Got the latest report
here, etcetera. Others, maybe their prospects that the sales team is teeing up.
Ty Magnin [00:08:11]:
Let's start there. How did these meetings get booked?
Matt Hummel [00:08:14]:
Yeah. Well, first of all, I wanna I wanna shout out to my colleague, Ben, because he
actually owes me a meeting in Paris. I've not gotten to go there yet, and he said he'd
make it happen this year. So good call out on Paris, but it's been di^erent almost each
time. So we create the research and then like I mentioned earlier, because we're a
relationship oriented business, our sales reps have great invite has been, hey. We don't
we're not trying to sell to you, but we've created this really compelling research through
500 of your peers. And it's really interesting, you know, and so here's a little teaser on
what what we're going to talk about. Of course, we have to talk about AI because
otherwise we can't get a meeting, right? I say that a little tongue in cheek, but it's
obviously the hottest topic out
Ty Magnin [00:09:04]:
out there.
Matt Hummel [00:09:05]:
And then we say like, Hey, we're bringing a marketer to come talk to you about this. And
so we're not only going to go through the challenges, but we're also going to talk about,
again, from a data perspective, the companies that are succeeding, the marketers that
are succeeding, here's what they're doing well. And so it's sort of like it's a little bit
therapy in the sense of, you know, hey, we we know we know it's a challenging time out
there. Let our VP of marketing come, you know, share the findings of our results, which
we think you can certainly empathize with. But then also, we've seen you know, we have
some great insights that we think are very relevant in helping you guys. So that's kind of
the invite and then the meetings get set and the plane tickets get bought. How do you
organize the schedule, like the logistics of it? We've tried actually two di^erent
approaches. So we've tried where we, you know, we said, hey, let's go to San Francisco
the week of June 10.
Matt Hummel [00:09:54]:
So we say, hey, reps with that market, start scheduling every meeting possible from, you
know, San Jose to San Francisco and everywhere in between. And that worked okay
because I think for reps, it gave them a a a time frame which they could go and try to get
as many meetings scheduled. That that worked pretty well, but then we also were were
scrambling to get, you know, any meeting possible because we really wanna maximize
our time in market. We've also tried where we said, hey. We're gonna be in San
Francisco or or not even we're gonna be in San Francisco, but rather, hey, sales rep. Go
try to schedule a meeting with a large account in San Francisco whenever that is, so
over these next three months, and then let's build around that. And so on one hand,
that's been good because then we have sort of that anchor meeting with the key
customer or key account that we really want to meet with. But it's also hard because it's
so open ended and schedules change so much.
Matt Hummel [00:10:48]:
And so it's harder to schedule a meeting without sort of that sense of urgency. So we've
been kind of playing around with a couple of those motions. And at this point, it's we've
kind of taken a bit of a hybrid approach, to be honest with you.
Ty Magnin [00:10:59]:
What percentage of the meetings are repeat versus net new?
Matt Hummel [00:11:02]:
Yeah. Great question. So interestingly, I would say 99% of the meetings have been net
new. And the reason for that is so, you know, in 2024, we did a first half wave of the
research and it was great. It got us into every customer that we could. And then we we
reran the research and the results were di^erent, but not that di^erent where it created
a brand new narrative where we could go, hey, customer, I know we met with you six
months ago. We've got a new I didn't want to go deliver the new research to the same
customer because they'd already heard 90% of the story.
Ty Magnin [00:11:40]:
Right.
Matt Hummel [00:11:40]:
And so this year, we've taken a little bit di^erent approach where we're gonna have an
annual state of b two b pipeline growth. And then midyear, we're gonna do a deeper dive
research into a specific topic. We don't know what that topic is yet, but it could be
account based marketing, it could be something around data, buying groups, for
example. And so we almost use a lot of the meetings to help us determine what will the
next topic be. But that way, you know, because we want everything to be oriented
around the customer's interests. And so that way, when we go back out to market in the
fall, yes, we can certainly meet with new customers who didn't get the first wave or
really the annual wave of research, but then we'll have a new stick, if you will, that if
we've already met with someone, we can go do a deeper dive.
Ty Magnin [00:12:24]:
Nice. Do
Tim Metz [00:12:25]:
you show up by yourself or is there also a local sales rep in the area? I don't know how
the organization is structured exactly.
Matt Hummel [00:12:32]:
We always bring the account executive for that account and that they're really the
relationship owner and they're not there to sell. But I gotta be honest, I've been in more
meetings than I can count where we get to the end and they're like, This is great. What
can you do to help? And so we ended up evolving our presentation because it was not
sales oriented at all. And then at the end, I'm sort of like, Hey, I know this isn't a sales
meeting, but the last 10 people have been frustrated that we didn't come and try to sell
them something. So here you go. And and the great thing is, like, our solutions were
really designed to solve marketers' biggest challenges, which were identified in the in
the market research. So we bring sales rep. Oftentimes, we'll bring a sales leader.
Matt Hummel [00:13:16]:
But yes, it's usually just a pretty small team on our side. Nice.
Ty Magnin [00:13:20]:
Well, that way you have
Matt Hummel [00:13:20]:
a travel companion too. %. It goes a long way.
Ty Magnin [00:13:24]:
Matt, I have a pretty good sense of who Pipeline three sixty is selling to, but help the
audience here. Like, what kinds of companies are we talking about? We primarily work
in the tech industry, though.
Matt Hummel [00:13:36]:
You know, we have we have inventory, if you will, that supports every industry, and we
and we dip into health care and manufacturing and financial services. But we work with
b to b marketers, and specifically, generally speaking, folks who are in a revenue
oriented role, so think digital, demand, ABM. We've recently expanded our o^erings to
where we still think about everything we do is demand oriented, but we've expanded our
o^ering to where now we're kind of thinking about taking more of that supply chain, if
you will. And so we know the success of our programs really hinges on a few things
outside of our typically or historically that have been outside of our control. So think
about the targeting strategy. If you're not targeting the right people, it doesn't matter how
good your stu^ is, it's not going to be successful. And then the content itself and, you
know, obviously, you guys are a phenomenal content agency. And so we're looking and
we've started to partner with content agencies like yourself who can really bring their
expertise into our customers.
Matt Hummel [00:14:37]:
Working through us, There's a lot of it's a lot simpler, you know, when you've got a more
streamlined approach. But that way, we can bring on the expertise of a content partner
who can create demand focused content that we know will work. And then there's the
other, you know, once the lead has been created, demand the demand's been created,
it's really the nurturing, the follow ups, so on and so forth. So we recently launched what
we're calling demand as a service, which is really taking a more holistic approach to
creating demand outside of our o^ering. And so that means we're now getting in front of
content marketers, brand marketers, even some VPs and CMOs who really understand,
I need help. At the end of the day, I really just want the output. My MarTech stack's
ine^icient. It's not really working for me.
Matt Hummel [00:15:22]:
So how can we work with you know, companies like yourself to help drive, better
impact?
Ty Magnin [00:15:27]:
Give me the leads. Right?
Matt Hummel [00:15:28]:
Like Give me the leads.
Ty Magnin [00:15:29]:
Right. Yeah. Smart. So you're kind of taking this sort of end to end approach nowadays.
Matt Hummel [00:15:33]:
%. So it's less yeah. It's less give me the leads and it's more give me the pipeline. Right.
Ty Magnin [00:15:38]:
Yeah. Fair. Okay. Next chapter. Take us inside the meeting room. K? So Yeah. You're
walking in. Usually, these companies have an o^ice, I imagine.
Ty Magnin [00:15:49]:
How does it all go from there?
Matt Hummel [00:15:51]:
Yeah. Well, it sounds like did you ever see the Hamilton Hamilton the Play? The
Musical? Yeah. It's like take me the room where it happened kind of a thing, if you
remember that song. Yes.
Ty Magnin [00:16:01]:
Yes. I won't sing it for you, but Yes. That's what I'm asking. Yes.
Matt Hummel [00:16:06]:
Well, I don't know if it was that exciting, but it has been really fun. So we get to the room,
and, yes, we're always meeting in a customer's o^ice. And the most important part of
the entire meeting is what happens when we get in the room, which is the introductions
and just getting the customer talking. And the reason that's important, one, it shows we
care, which we do, but it allows us to hear what's on their mind. And so first of all, just
even the basic introductions, hey, you're an ABM marketer, you're a field marketer,
you're a digital marketer. I start to I'm taking notes and I'm starting to process, how do
the data and insights that I'm going to present really, how do they speak to that person
specifically? And then from there, again, being a marketer, I can start to ask questions
around like, Hey, how do you measure success? What's your attribution model? What's
your content strategy? What's your campaign strategy? And so, again, I can start to
understand both experientially what they're doing and what I think is probably working
or not working as well as what the data again is showing us is working or not working.
And so it allows me to tailor the ensuing discussion you know, to be more specific to
them. But it also gives us, you know, at the end of the day, we're in business to make
money.
Matt Hummel [00:17:24]:
It gives us the ability to better understand their challenges and pain points and
ultimately how we can help serve them. So I always tell the sales rep, because they're
pretty eager a lot of times like, Oh, we have an agenda. We need to stick to it. And I'm
like, Look, if we get them talking for forty five minutes of an hour or of an hour and a half,
that's great. That means they trust us and they value us. And at the end of the day, if I
don't even present the research because we have them talking, it's a win for me. So
once we get through that, then we get into the research. And I always say it's not me
presenting, it's me leading a discussion.
Matt Hummel [00:18:02]:
And that's what I want it to be because I'm a marketer. I'm also living and breathing the
reality of what the state is sharing. And so it's really a great way to, you know, just to
connect and share the research. And I always say, This is not me. This is 500 of our
peers who have said this. So don't shoot the messenger. This is not I'm not trying to lead
the witness here. It can take anywhere from half an hour to an hour, depending on how
deep they want to go.
Matt Hummel [00:18:30]:
And I love it. I mentioned this earlier, a lot of times it's like a therapy session where you
just see these, oh, yes, or, oh, I'm not alone. It looks like other companies out there
struggling with the same things. And yet the great part too is it's kind of when you can
help. And it really is like a therapy session where sometimes people just want to be
heard and sometimes they want answers. And so, you know, again, we have answers in
many of the cases, whether it's through, again, what the research is showing where
companies who are succeeding, sort of their recipes to success. But then also just
because I've got experience working in di^erent industries, as well as di^erent size
companies and challenges that I faced, I can often just speak anecdotally around my
own personal experience. This is so cool.
Matt Hummel [00:19:10]:
I anecdotally around
Ty Magnin [00:19:13]:
my own personal experience. This is so cool. I mean, I'm comparing this to how most
data reports, white papers, that kind of material gets distributed. A, it's, you know, you
just blast it over email and people skim it, whatever. B, you know, a lot of companies do
a decent job of presenting a webinar to release the report, and maybe they walk through
it with some commentary. But this is quite a level deeper, right, where you're really
facilitating a long form conversation in person with these folk? I mean, just the
relationship points you earn on that has got to be a hundred X.
Matt Hummel [00:19:49]:
Oh, to me, it's and it's funny because it took me six months to realize what we were
doing. We're doing one to one ABM. You know, we're taking long form content, we're
personalizing it and delivering it at the individual account level.
Tim Metz [00:20:04]:
Does the customer experience in that way like, how special is it to them? Like, do do
they feel do they really see it as an almost as an event? Or is it more like, okay, he's
stopping by? Like, how's how's the how's the response from the customer?
Matt Hummel [00:20:18]:
Yeah. Tim, I like I like your questions a lot. That's, that that would get me thinking. I think
it's been a little bit of both. So early on, we were meeting with oftentimes literally just
one customer at a time. And when I say one customer, I mean one person at that
account. Part of our challenge is that really post pandemic, no one's in o^ices anymore.
And not only that, but nobody lives in the same city.
Matt Hummel [00:20:45]:
So I always I always use the example, and I don't know that this is accurate, but take a
Salesforce. Salesforce, we always knew was in San Francisco. Now we have people who
work for Salesforce who live in Austin and Milwaukee and certainly San Francisco. But,
my point is we can't just hop over to San Francisco and expect to meet with the entire
Salesforce team. In a way, early on, it was less of an event. And I kind of liked that
because it made it more sort of organic and personal where it wasn't, hey, the Pipeline
three sixty show is coming to town. If you want to be part of it, buy your tickets. It was
more, hey, we're going to be in town.
Matt Hummel [00:21:21]:
We'd love to connect with you and really take you to dinner or grab a co^ee or
something. And there's still a big part of that, but honestly, it's really evolved to where
now we have entire marketing teams who are building us into their o^-site. And so just
two weeks ago, I was in California and I met with one of our customers and their entire
demand organization. And we were built in, we had a couple hours with them as part of
their two day worksite or o^-site. And, you know, talk about trust earned to be able to
get invited to that. They only These folks get together every couple years. Many had not
ever met each other. We took them to dinner the night before.
Matt Hummel [00:22:03]:
We show up the next morning and we have two hours with them. And so it's evolved
where, again, it's not really an event, but we really want them to see us as not a friend
per se, but really a part of their an extension of their team.
Ty Magnin [00:22:19]:
I assume the feedback you get reinforces what you're saying here.
Matt Hummel [00:22:23]:
Yeah. Well, it's funny. So I mentioned this meeting in California and this was definitely
the exception, not the norm. But after I finished presenting on our new demand as a
service o^ering, really as our response to the current market challenges, I kid you not,
everyone in the room started clapping. And I'm like, well, this is awkward, but also really
awesome. And so feedback in general has been, thank you, this is great, super helpful.
And that then translates into, hey, let's do some follow ups from a sales perspective
because we really see a clear path for how we can either expand or continue to work
together. And so I always say, you know, proof's in the pudding, right? If we're if we're not
growing the accounts we're investing in, then it's not working and we'll stop doing this.
Matt Hummel [00:23:09]:
But right now, you know, whether it's anecdotal through, like, hey. Thank you. This was
great. But really more importantly, are we seeing growth? And and the answer is, you
know, a %.
Ty Magnin [00:23:18]:
Well, yeah. Can you speak to some of those numbers that maybe you're seeing in terms
of conversion from these meetings to I mean, I guess there are already kind of
opportunities or at some stage in the sales process, but, yeah, what results are you
seeing from that?
Matt Hummel [00:23:31]:
Yeah. And it it it is interesting because you could make the I'm I'm a cynic on attribution
in general, so you can make the case, well, they were already a customer. How do you
know if what you did actually worked? It's a few things. And I won't go super deep for
time's sake, but when you think about ABM and how you measure it, there's di^erent
ways. And like anything, the lagging indicator is both pipeline and or revenue. And you
know, I can definitively say that the accounts that we have met with in general have
continued to grow and continued to spend with us. And in many cases, it's opening up
doors for us to sell di^erent services into them. There's also other benefits that we're
that we're seeing that are sort of more of the near term success metrics when you think
ABM.
Matt Hummel [00:24:18]:
So for example, you know, one of the one of the big ABM metrics is, you know, what's
your sort of reach within an account. And so we'll meet with these accounts and and
we'll start talking about how we have capabilities across the brand area of their
business. Or, we have a partner program and they're like, oh, do you know our partner
marketer so and so? And we're like, no. And so they say, well, let's facilitate an
introduction. And so all of a sudden, we now have a warm introduction that we've we
would have never otherwise had. And so, you know, that's a longer tail term in terms of
us getting in and selling into that maybe new area of the business, but it's a win because
we've identified new contacts, we've had the warm introduction. And so in a few cases
too there, we've seen success come from it.
Ty Magnin [00:25:02]:
That's awesome. Who do you think this kind of distribution play is right for?
Matt Hummel [00:25:08]:
And are you talking about companies sold to or companies selling?
Ty Magnin [00:25:12]:
Other companies selling like you. Like, yeah. What kinds of companies like a Pipeline
three sixty would you maybe recommend trying this sort of flying distribution engine?
Matt Hummel [00:25:22]:
Yeah. Well, first of all, there's no company like Pipeline three sixty.
Ty Magnin [00:25:27]:
Of course.
Matt Hummel [00:25:27]:
But But with that said, you know, I would not recommend any of our competitors try this
because it's exhausting and really ine^icient. I think it could work for any company who,
at the end of the day, you know, relationships play a key role in in their buying process.
And arguably, that is every b to b company out there
Tim Metz [00:25:47]:
Sure.
Matt Hummel [00:25:48]:
Excluding maybe a a product led growth type company. Right. Relationships, frankly, are
becoming increasingly important. One of my favorite marketers who I've worked with,
you know, earlier in my career, he he and I were both demand. Like, we were the science
guys, you know, building the campaigns, driving all the numbers to get the get the
results. He is now in a customer, like, truly, like, experiential marketing role where he's
developing these programs that orient around creating these high memorable touch
points for customers or prospects and really seeing great impact from that. And so I
think, you know, that's to to me, that's where the world is heading. And again, this is just
one channel.
Matt Hummel [00:26:27]:
Obviously, we do other things and I would always recommend other companies don't
put all their eggs in one basket. But I think getting out face to face is so important. You
cannot replicate the trust that happens when you meet face to face. And the other piece
too, I mentioned, you know, post pandemic, a lot of people were still working remote.
And so it's almost like, Oh, somebody wants to take me to dinner and come to hang
out? Absolutely. I don't get that engagement anymore.
Ty Magnin [00:26:53]:
Yeah. Well, you mentioned some of the downsides too, right? You mentioned your wife,
you've got two boys. Would you speak to that a little bit? Like, you know, what does it
cost? And, you know, this thing doesn't really scale.
Matt Hummel [00:27:04]:
So it's been something of focus for us because while it doesn't seem like it would scale,
it it has an opportunity to it still it still requires humans, though. And so we've tried to
create scale in a couple ways. One is if it's a one o^ meeting, maybe it's just a prospect,
or it's a one o^ meeting that we just cannot get to. There was a meeting in the middle of
nowhere and there were no other accounts that would make sense for us to meet. We
just scheduled it via Zoom and we delivered it virtually and that was great. It was not the
same, but we've done that a lot. That's one way we've tried to create scale. The other is
the research in and of itself doesn't require me or even a marketer to deliver it.
Matt Hummel [00:27:48]:
And so I will enable our sales organization to deliver the data. The di^erence is, you
know, I can bring an experiential perspective or overlay to deliver it. And so our sales
leader always says, I can do it. I just can't do it like you can. And that's not flattering. I'm
not patting myself on the back. Like, he's not a marketer and he's not living in this day to
day, nor has he for the last twenty five years like I have. So it's really I think it's been just
picking and choosing where it makes sense for me to travel and then, you know, working
with and and equipping our other sales reps or sales leaders to go out and deliver it, you
know, when they can as well.
Matt Hummel [00:28:26]:
Nice.
Tim Metz [00:28:26]:
And how much I'm actually curious, like, how much of your time does it actually take
during those periods?
Matt Hummel [00:28:32]:
Yeah. So when I travel for these, it it can go it's usually a full week, and there's a lot of
prep, you know, because we'll do we'll do two or three prep calls before really every
meeting. You know, who's who within the account? What are the goals? What do we
know about what they're facing? How do we want to tailor the overall content. And more
often than not, the research is just part of the agenda. It's the bulk of the agenda. It's
certainly the hook. But if we're delivering a QER, for example, we can bring some data on
their latest performance, or if we wanna if we wanna talk about a new o^ering. So
there's a lot of prep that goes into each.
Matt Hummel [00:29:10]:
And then afterwards, you know, there's less follow-up for me. That's really where the
sales reps come in and and and do what they're really good at. But it you know, when I'm
out on the road, it's pretty all consuming.
Tim Metz [00:29:22]:
And the last thing I wanna know is, like, what's been the most memorable trip or the
most memorable thing that has happened to you in one of these?
Matt Hummel [00:29:28]:
Yeah. Well, it's really cool. So we did, we had an event in Tuscany last year and it was
actually it was a customer event and so it was di^erent than a roadshow. So we had 15
of our wonderful customers in Tuscany, really tough place to meet. And I presented the
research. And so it was the first time I delivered the research to a di^erent collection of
customers. And it was well received, but one of the customers said, this was awesome.
We wanna get you out to meet with our entire team in Munich, you know, later this year.
Matt Hummel [00:30:05]:
I'm like, that sounds awesome. And since then, we've had a team in Amsterdam bring us
out, a team in London bring us out. I I mentioned California. There's been a couple
di^erent teams in di^erent cities there. So we're really starting to see this move
towards, you know, like I said earlier too, just that workshop. Tim, though, the the I had
there was one funny moment that happened at that Munich meeting. So when we did
our research last year, we only segmented the respondents in The US and The UK. And
because that's really where our business has been and now we've expanded, you know,
really well into APAC and really broader Europe.
Matt Hummel [00:30:41]:
And so I'm delivering this research and I'm walking them through the when we surveyed
500 respondents and 50% were in UK and 50% were in The US and blah, blah, blah. And
our key contact there who I adore, she goes, and I won't use her accent, but she said,
Hey, Matt, I'm going to interrupt you. We don't care about The US or UK. Go on with your
research, but just know if you want to do this again, maybe tailor it for the rest of Europe
because we don't really care about anybody but ourselves. And I could just I don't get
embarrassed often, but I could just feel my face turn red and I'm like, Okay. And so,
yeah, when we started our new wave of research, I said, All right, we're segmenting at
US, UK, Continental Europe, and APAC. And so, you know, we'll make sure that it
resonates with the broader global audience.
Ty Magnin [00:31:30]:
Matt, I've got an idea for you. Take it or at least, okay?
Matt Hummel [00:31:33]:
Let's hear it.
Ty Magnin [00:31:34]:
For the next report, when someone goes to download the thing, instead of a button to
download it, it's a button to, like, you know, hey. Hand deliver this to me. Next day air.
Matt Hummel [00:31:46]:
Oh my gosh. I I gotta be honest. I love it. I think the icon should the CTA icon should be
an airplane.
Tim Metz [00:31:54]:
There you go. And
Matt Hummel [00:31:55]:
I think we need to figure out some way where they can literally just yeah. They can they
can book a trip. Don't don't don't download it. Book a trip. I love that. Right. Yeah. That's
it's like, what?
Ty Magnin [00:32:07]:
What do you mean it's coming
Matt Hummel [00:32:08]:
in two weeks? You know? Yeah. That's amazing.
Ty Magnin [00:32:11]:
Well, this is a great story. Thanks so much for for sharing here on the Animals podcast.
Where can people find you and follow along with Pipeline three sixty and some of the
other marketing ideas that you share?
Matt Hummel [00:32:23]:
Yeah. So you you could obviously learn about our company on our website, pipeline360.com. Pipeline 3 60 was not available. You can find me on LinkedIn. I think it's slash
matt hummel1. And I also host a podcast, The Pipeline Brew, so I'm always looking for
other marketers out there to talk about anything from content, brand, ABM or demand.
So you can my podcast, The Pipeline Brew, on any of the the platforms as well.
Ty Magnin [00:32:50]:
There you have it. Matt Hummel, thanks for joining.
Matt Hummel [00:32:52]:
Thank you guys for having me.
Ty Magnin [00:32:54]:
So, Tim, should we start buying plane tickets and flying you around the world?
Tim Metz [00:32:58]:
Yeah. Of course. Absolutely. No. I I mean, I well, I love the broad I mean, I love that, but I
love the broader idea as well. Like, relationships are important, getting even more
important. I like this point about COVID. Like, many people haven't had you know,
there's fewer in person meetings.
Tim Metz [00:33:14]:
It's kinda special if you come out. In in AI. Right?
Ty Magnin [00:33:17]:
Like, in the day and age of AI, like, relationships matter even more.
Tim Metz [00:33:21]:
I I I what I also like was, like, that there's kind of a feedback loop into their own content
and research report as well. Right? It's not just about building a relationship. You get to
meet the actual people. They can give you feedback. Like, the example he gave, right,
about people in Germany who are actually like, hey. You gotta get us to do research in
Europe then. Right? I mean, that's valuable feedback. So it's not just about relationship
and getting sales opportunities, but also kind of improving the product.
Ty Magnin [00:33:45]:
Another piece is it's this notion of being super long form. Right? If I'm doing the math
right in my head, he talks about having thirty to forty five minutes in a meeting of just
talking through what the client or prospect is going through. Then he talked about I I
think it was sixty minutes of presenting the report, thirty to sixty minutes of that. And
these are an hour and a half to two hour meetings, sometimes including a meet you
know, dinner the night before, which, like, I don't know about you, but, like, I don't do
that over Zoom. Right? Yeah. And so there's something powerful about this sort of event
or format that's di^erent than scanning the report in the fifteen minutes you have before
your next meeting. And it makes you really then take it seriously and think about how it's
gonna impact, you know, in the case of pipeline three sixty, their marketing strategy for
the next twenty four, twelve, whatever, however many months.
Tim Metz [00:34:37]:
But it's a big lift. You know? If you add if you put everything together from what he said,
it's like, well, obviously, first of all, you need to have a really good report. Right?
Otherwise, you have something to talk about if it's love. And then he was also talking
about, like, you know, their sales team is involved. He said there's, like, two to three prep
calls. Then, obviously, there's just the logistics of, I mean, we even know just from this
podcast, like, scheduling an interview can be quite a bit of work with even with three
people. Right? So if you're, like, trying to coordinate with, like, high level folks and, you
know, there needs to be sales folks, it needs to be a specific location, there's plane
tickets involved. It's like, you know, it's it's a lot of work.
Tim Metz [00:35:10]:
So it's not everybody can can pull this o^. It's it's also a big investment for sure.
Ty Magnin [00:35:14]:
I think it's a great fit for enterprise companies in general. Right? Larger companies
selling to enterprise businesses because of that relationship aspect, because you can
a^ord to spend more on an individual relationship, because the deal size is so much
greater. I also like, you know, this idea of being able to kind of, like, build an entire
marketing strategy almost. I mean, I know we didn't get to it in our talk, but the pipeline
three sixty mass team is doing a lot more than like, around these white papers than just
this hand delivery, you know, by airplane tactic. But you can kind of build a whole
content strategy around this.
Tim Metz [00:35:53]:
Yeah. That's true. I mean, we we always say that. Right? When we work with customers
on this kind of on this kind of content as well, it's like you get so much more mileage out
of, you know, an anchor asset like this, and and Matt is kind of proof of that. Right? Like,
you can build a whole, yeah, the whole Literally mileage. Motion around it. Yeah. Yeah.
Tim Metz [00:36:09]:
Yeah. Literally. A lot of mileage. Air mileage. Yeah.
Ty Magnin [00:36:12]:
Well, alright. Yeah. Excited to see what we come up you know, what we hear next from
our other enterprise, guests. Maybe they have some similar event plays or maybe not.
Maybe they're going broad.
Tim Metz [00:36:23]:
Thanks for listening.