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Chasing the Game: Youth Soccer in America is a weekly podcast for soccer parents, coaches, and players who want to understand how youth soccer development really works in the United States.
Hosted by two dads, filmmaker Liron Unreich and investor Matt Tartaglia, the show covers everything from grassroots soccer to elite pathways like MLS NEXT and ECNL. Combining data, real experience, and expert insights from academy directors, college coaches, and former pros, each episode explains what families truly need to know.
Weekly episodes focus on the core aspects of youth soccer: player development, coaching culture, college recruiting, tryouts, travel costs, and the challenges of parenting in youth sports in today’s competitive environment.
For families navigating youth soccer’s complex system, Chasing the Game offers practical advice, credible voices, and relatable stories from two dads working to make sense of American player development, one episode at a time.
All right.
How far would you go for your kids' soccer dream?
Far enough to split the family, dad and son in one bedroom,
mom and sister back home.
And then comes the part nobody prepares you for.
The kid realizes the whole family moved around him.
This episode is what happens next
a dad learning the beautiful game through the eyes of his son and
his passion for soccer.
Sacrifice on the imp part of the entire family with incredible
positivity to allow a kid to chase his dream.
And this is not a story about me.
This is chasing the game, youth soccer in America.
Today's guest is Justin Phelps, a dad who
didn't grow up in soccer.
He learned it because his son loved it.
And when the opportunities to stepped into a professional academy
environment became real, he didn't just talk about it.
He reorganized his life around it.
We talk a lot on this podcast about the systems
MLS Next, Pathways, Environment, access.
But this conversation is different.
This is about what happens inside the house.
What does it mean when the dream gets big enough that it changes
where you sleep, how you work, who
you see every day?
And what happens when your kid looks at you and understands
that this whole thing
the move is thanks and because of him.
Justin's story isn't about hype.
It's not about chasing class.
It's about belief.
It's really about backing your kid when he says, I want to train.
I want to work towards this.
And then realizing the emotional weight
that comes with that kind of backing.
He also went a step further.
He built soccer HQ in Clearwater, Florida, a
training environment designed to give kids access
to quality development without families having to break themselves to get it.
Yeah, this one is personal
We're three dads now, no posturing, just the real math.
Families are doing every weekend.
Let's get into it.
Justin, welcome to Chasing the Game
for, for most parents it's
about buying better cleats.
It's about, getting a nicer
uniform or something like that.
But, for you, you relocate a city, split
the family, go to a one bedroom apartment
and then build a training facility, eh,
Justin: Yeah, I'm, I'm still not
quite sure how that happened, but
Liron: yeah.
Well, we're, we're, we're
about to find out, right?
Justin: yeah, absolutely.
Liron: So just take us a little bit back.
e Evan, your son is a, is it you?
13,
14.
Justin: U 14,
Liron: 14, right?
Like Lavy, you
14. is it, Tampa team.
Good.
MLS
Justin: Yep.
Liron: two.
Right.
Justin: Tampa Bay United.
MLS Next, whatever they
call it now, I think.
Homegrown.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Liron: Good team.
Strong team.
probably a good environment unless
you have something else to tell us.
Justin: No, great environment.
Yeah.
We loved it.
Liron: so what the peep is going on here.
Why, why, why change everything?
Justin: Well, let's see.
So we, I guess last year, around this
time, maybe January-ish, we had a, a scout
from Orlando City reach out and said,
Hey, we'd like Evan to come out to our,
they call it the Friday Night Futures.
And it's just an opportunity for
some of those players that they're,
they're kind of looking at to.
You know, for them to take a look at
them at, at, at the Orlando City campus.
So, that's in Kissimmee, Florida,
about two hours from our house.
And they said, we, we want you to come
out every Friday night for as long as,
as long as we want you to be there.
And they don't really tell
you much, just come on out.
And, so we get outta school early
on Friday and drive and battle
Disney traffic and all that.
And, um.
Liron: Disney
Justin: We are like
Liron: it's a thing.
Is there like a thing?
But there's a thing called Disney traffic.
Justin: I mean, yes, yes, yes.
so yeah, we were coming out to
the, the Friday night thing.
I think it started, there was a
couple hundred kids out there and
that just kept whittling down.
and then, eventually it got to the
point where they just said, Hey,
we wanna do an official trial.
and then we do that for a period
of time and, and then you don't
really know what's going on.
while this is happening, prior
to that, I'd already decided
to do this soccer business.
So I'm managing a build out in St.
Pete, Clearwater area, and we're
doing this thing with Evan and,
you don't know where you stand.
We're, you know, the Tampa Bay
United was, was trying to figure out
like, are you gonna be on our team?
They don't have information.
and then they're trying to
set their final rosters.
And I think emotionally, I was at
the point where I was just like,
we're just gonna stay with Tampa Bay.
You know, at this point it just,
with the new business starting and
everything, the logistics of it, these
late night drive backs home from Orlando.
we had sort of emotionally decided that
we were gonna, we weren't gonna do it.
And I don't know if that was just
a way of protecting ourselves.
you know, because if you get the,
no, it's super disappointing after
been going out there for that long.
and then Jose, at the time that the
head scout for Orlando City called
me up and he said, Hey, we, we'd
like Evan to, to join the, the team.
And, I was like.
Oh,
now what do we do?
This is no longer theory.
This is real.
so I told Jose, I said, listen,
this is, this is flattering.
I said, but you know, we, we just, this
is a bad year for us and blah, blah, blah.
I said, I don't think we can do it.
And I said, I. He says, well, you
know, he gave me some things to think
about and I said, can you just give
me some time to kind of process this?
Talk to Evan, talk to my, talk to my wife.
And, we did, and we, we decided
that, that we could make it work.
But we didn't know we were getting
an apartment at that point.
We thought we would carpool.
We thought we could come out
three days a week or whatever.
We, we thought a lot of
things that weren't true.
so yeah.
Matt: Wow.
go back to, so you, you mentioned
launching a soccer business as well.
What's your background?
Or, or, or do you not have a
background in the game and how
did this all even come together?
Justin: I played soccer as a kid.
Yeah, I played soccer
as a kid, little kid.
but there was a guy named Michael Jordan
who was around when, when I was a kid, so.
Matt: Heard of him.
Justin: Yeah.
Yeah.
So basketball was the sport, right?
I mean, you know, we just didn't
have these kind of soccer influences
growing up in the eighties.
And, you know, I, we had,
major League indoor soccer
in Dallas where I was living.
and my favorite player
was a guy named Tattoo.
Matt: And,
I remember his guys.
yeah,
Justin: you remember that?
Matt: Yeah.
Yeah.
The New York arrows are in that league.
Justin: Oh yeah.
Yeah.
So we would go to games
as a kid, but that was it.
I mean, we didn't, I didn't have
any exposure to to, to soccer
any other level than that.
so, so yeah, so that's my background.
Perfectly qualified to know to
open an indoor soccer facility.
Wow.
Liron: But, but you, you weren't
re you weren't leaving something
that you felt was, was broken.
Right.
You, you.
And you didn't have the soccer
background, what made you think that
you are creating a, an upgradable
environment for, for your son?
Justin: Well.
I don't know if that's necessarily
what I, what the goal was.
you know, I think it started initially
with just being at the soccer field with
other dads and, and being frustrated
because another practice got canceled
because of lightning or just kind of
being out in the oppressive heat of
Tampa, Florida in August or May or
September or whenever, and, and just
being like, man, wouldn't it be great if
we had a place that we could, the boys
could train like an indoor place and.
Just kind of dad talk, at practice.
And, nothing ever, ever came from that.
And you know, I guess it was two summers
ago, I'm trying to do the math on this,
but we went up, one of the kids on
Evan's team, His dad had a connection
with, Kevin and Quinn Sullivan's dad.
Brendan Sullivan up in Philadelphia, and
the dad said, Hey, would, do you think
Evan would, would, would like to go up
and train at, Brendan Sullivan's facility?
And I was like, I. Heck yeah, let's do it.
You know, we we're always just
like, yes, we say yes first.
so we went up there didn't
know what to expect.
I think in my mind I envisioned this big
indoor training facility or, or whatever,
and it was this kind of smaller space.
but the training was, was fantastic.
And, I was like, man.
Something like this would
be just perfectly fine.
if we had something.
And then me and that other dad, we
started talking about what something
like this would look like and we had
a lot of conversations back and forth
you know, conversations with my wife
and like, what could this look like?
Could it actually be a business?
You know, I don't need just an
indoor place for Evan to train.
I, I'm not gonna spend, you know, that
kind of money just to open a facility
Liron: Only half that money.
Justin: And, and you know, I
said what I, it got me thinking
like, what are some other needs?
Like where, where are we kind of missing
on, on this stuff, at least in our area.
And I, it got me thinking about
my daughter and when she first got
introduced to, to the game, and it
was a bad experience for my daughter.
I mean, it was, she was probably
six years old, seven years old.
And I remember her being in her first game
after maybe one practice and she just.
Like this in the middle of the field with
her arms crossed and she was not going
anywhere and coaches were going that way.
Run score goal.
Parents are yelling and
there's all this chaos.
And she was just like, I'm not doing it.
You know?
And, I thought, man, there's
gotta be a better way for kids.
To, to get introduced to soccer, right?
Like if we could just make it less
pressure, more fun, more about
like joy and less about parents.
Like win, like we gotta win,
you know, for 6-year-old kids.
It just seems silly to me.
Matt: I've, I've actually never heard
that in the sidelines in the New York.
Yeah,
Liron: of course.
This is foreign to me.
Matt: Yeah, it's so strange.
Everybody's very quiet and
reserved and just lets the kids be,
Liron: I met my best friend, screaming,
,screaming on the sideline.
Justin: Yeah.
Let's not act like I'm not
acting like I'm above this.
Okay.
I'm, I'm very, very aware that
I was part of this problem.
I'm part of these, these
lunatic parents, right?
So
Matt: part of this solution, so
Justin: I, I, well, I think
that's what you do, right?
You, you reflect and you, you
identify like where, where are
we missing things and where are
we, where are we goofing this up?
And um, yeah.
Liron: So what did I look
like to you at Supercopa when
you first met
Justin: we were the same.
Are
Liron: That's what I was gonna say.
You're all like a high and mighty here.
I remember you and I
Justin: Oh no, I'm not
Liron: uh, hand in hand.
Justin: high and mighty.
I'm just trying to no.
Liron: You didn't run
to the field like me.
But, but otherwise, it was all exactly the
same.
Justin: chased after you with the camera.
I caught all the glory.
So,
Liron and Matt: good.
Justin: so how should we
talk about how we met or.
Liron: No, we, we, we can, we can
definitely, I, I, um, it's funny because
I, we, we, we had a note in the last
episode where we opened it with saying
that I, that I traveled thousands of
miles against all, all common sense
to see Lavie, play a game and a half.
And we've kind of met in the same way.
We both.
Traveled a lot to meet in a
tournament in Florida, super Copa.
And I think the boys were
probably 11 years old, maybe.
Matt, I was, I was telling Justin
that with Lavie, with all the.
Cumulative experiences he's had
at soccer at a short time, which
some of 'em have been, you know,
on, on paper, pretty grand.
He still talks about that
particular tournament as being a,
a highlight of, of something that
he's just had such a good time in.
And I think Justin, if you recall the,
let's say, positive vibes was, was the
understatement of the, the year for that.
And I think that sold us as
families on, on the game.
because the highs for us as
parents was probably just as
high as the high for the kids.
and there was no turning
back from there, right.
Justin: Unbelievable.
Yeah, I mean, when we, when we had that,
that opportunity the kid from Tampa, to
do that NY Select thing at Supercopa, man,
we were all in and, It was so much fun.
Liron: basically, you're saying that if it
wasn't for, coach Marcos and Coach Lee, a
lot of this maybe wouldn't have happened.
Justin: Hey man, it's amazing these
little domino effects in life.
you know, we, we go up to to, to Red
Bull and I can't remember the reason
why, but we were waiting after practice
one of the days and I started talking
to some of the dads up there, and this
guy Lee was like, Hey, would you guys be
interested in doing this, this tournament?
And, and I was like.
Sure, why not?
We were just along for the
ride and then I met this, this
Liron: And he, he just met you.
He just met you there on the
sideline and he saw Evan right.
He
Justin: Yeah, he was watching.
He was
Liron: right.
He is like, wait, who's that
Justin: let's let's call it what it is.
Lee is, is a talent scout.
He is, for, for, for high level talent.
And, but yeah, man, that was, it
was an awesome experience, getting
to know all you guys and, and
playing in that tournament together.
It was really cool.
Liron: I was at that point already.
Considering myself a, a
fantastic sideline coach.
But you were just coming
into the sport, right?
Justin: Yeah, I mean, I, I think I, yeah,
so he started playing when he was pretty
young, whatever, like five, six years old.
And, but I found myself talking
to guys like you, Liron.
From somewhere other than the us right?
And there's a lot of those where
we are just people from all over.
so that was another thing
that I loved about soccer was
just how multicultural it was.
You know, we'd have a lot of
Hispanic families and, European
families and folks from all over.
And I, I have no problem.
Sharing my ignorance and, and trying
to understand the game better.
Like I said, I played, but I, I had
so much to learn and, and I loved
just those sideline conversations
and really learning the game.
but, you know, I, I got Evan into soccer
because basketball was my true love.
And I remember, I, I don't know why
I'm telling you this, but I remember,
I remember Googling when he was
probably like three or four years old,
like, how do you raise an NBA player?
Shameful.
And, what this, there's somebody
who wrote a paper on this, right?
And, one of the things was have
them play soccer and get 'em
into martial arts at a young age.
but don't let 'em touch a basketball
until they're 10 or 11 years old.
I was like, oh.
So, so I said, soccer,
we're gonna do soccer.
I played soccer as a kid.
Soccer's a lot of fun.
So we got into soccer that way.
but yeah, I mean, I, I learned the
game, along the way and Evan just was
really good at soccer and I was like,
oh wait, I think this is his sport.
He really likes this.
And then I just got all in with
him and, but then I realized.
He's gonna have to have passion for
the game like I have for basketball.
And so then I had to really
understand the game professionally
and how all this works.
What there's professional leagues
in all these countries and what's
this Champions League thing?
And so, so we just really dove in
Matt: um, I'm, I'm curious, Justin, so
you, you, let's go back to the transition
from Tampa Bay now to Orlando City.
So it sounds like you
have it all figured out.
It's like you go
grassroots, get him started.
He loves it.
It's passionate.
He's playing at a high
level at Tampa Bay United.
He gets scouted.
You go through that arduous
process, a lot of unknown, and
then boom, you're at Orlando.
Orlando City fc.
What has the last year been like
for your, for your son, for your
family, and just generally, like
where are you guys on this journey?
Justin: It's a lot of highs and lows.
it started with him guest playing in a
tournament this summer, and I was telling
around about this, it was in Kansas
City and, I remember at that point we
had just accepted the, the, the offer
to, to come to Orlando City So then
this idea of, well, maybe we could get
a, like a little apartment over there.
And, so yeah, so that happened.
We got a one bedroom apartment.
It's about five minutes
from the training facility.
there's other kids on the team
that live here and and then we
just figured out the logistics.
Evan would do virtual school and
then my wife and I would make
this work where we would sort of,
Like, I'd come out on Mondays with
Evan and he'd do his schooling.
And then, so what were we doing Thursdays?
I was driving back.
My wife and I were literally
crossing each other on I four.
I was racing to pick my daughter up from
school to go be, take her to horseback
riding and all the stuff that she does.
And then my wife was coming here and Evan
was hanging out at the house or at the
apartment for a couple hours in that time.
and.
I don't know.
We, it's funny how these crazy
things just start to become normal.
so that part is just like our life now
and we've been doing that since August.
And then, yeah, the journey itself being
at Orlando City is a, it's a different
environment than when you're in the
club environment, for your local club.
just an unbelievable group of kids,
talent off the charts, competitors,
just a, a tremendous training
environment, you know, for, for Evan.
but it, it hasn't, it hasn't come
without its emotional highs and lows
and, and just the challenges that you go
through, stepping into this environment.
Liron: I don't even know
what to say to this.
but there, there's so much, this
is such a big life decision, right?
how much of it was, I
know it's really difficult
to, to answer that.
How, how much of it was you think driven
by what you saw in Evan and how much of it
was driven by what you thought could be.
Justin: It's a good, it's a good question,
and I think it's a question that all the
parents have to ask themselves when they
go through this because, we made some.
Pretty like strategic moves along the way.
Evan started with his local,
local club, you know, like
five, 10 minutes from the house.
And then after a couple years, I,
I didn't think that was the best
setup for him, so we moved to another
club and then he was able to, it
was a higher competition level.
He was able to compete really well there.
And then it was, oh, now we have to go
to, I started to figure out how this
whole infrastructure worked and we,
Matt: Really,
Justin: oh, I was, well.
Matt: this is gonna, this is
gonna be, this is gonna be a,
Justin: away.
Let's
Matt: this is gonna be a, this is
gonna be a longer pod than we thought
Liron: I was gonna say.
Wow.
Justin: No, no, no, no.
When I say figure it out, I
figured out that if you wanted to
get to an academy, you probably
needed to play for an MLS next.
Club.
And so we, we went to some tryout
and he was trying out for the
age group above where he was.
And I told Evan, I said, just go have fun.
Let's just see kind of where you stack
up with these other kids in the area.
Right?
And, I guess it went well.
They, afterwards they were like, Hey,
you know, would you be willing to.
And, and I was like, oh,
that's a 45 minute drive.
I'm like, I don't want to do that.
Like, what do we, Evan, what do you want?
Yes, dad, I wanna play with those kids.
Those are the best kids.
Oh, let's go.
You know?
So then, yeah, and then for three
years, we're driving 45 minutes.
One way to practice every, and I know for
you guys 45 minutes is probably nothing
Liron: If you saw how long it took to
set up the phone for this conversation,
of course, 45 minutes is nothing.
Justin: So, but you know, you start
doing that and then I guess you're
getting more exposure at that point.
that's how that happened.
Matt: was there a point in the
process where either Evan or you
were thinking there's another level here
and we think he can play at that level.
Justin: I think he stood out as
one of the top kids on his team.
And when he played the academies,
whether it was Orlando City or Inner
Miami, I felt like, and, and he felt
like he could play with those kids.
It wasn't like, and you know, we had
the experience with, couple years
or early on in that process of going
to Tampa Bay, United, his coach.
recommended that he do a, a, like a
little trial at the New York Red Bulls.
So we didn't know it was a trial.
We thought we were just gonna go train
with those guys for a couple weeks.
So there was a couple moments here and
there where we were and, and I think
once you start playing with other kids
that are really good and you realize
that, or at least he realized he was
kind of, he could play with those guys.
I think the more you start to see
it like, okay, this seems like
this is a, this is a possibility.
Liron: were you betting on Evan's
ceiling specifically, or This is
really just regardless of outcome.
Justin: I, I kept seeing it.
Like I, I, I think I saw it as if
he was into this and he wanted this.
I was gonna support him and
my wife is the same way.
We're very much like, if this is
what you want, bud, we're gonna
support it as long as this'll go.
Right.
I mean, so I, I think that's really
where this comes from, is just sort of
listening to your kid, understanding
what they want, and, and then allowing
them to, to do, to go as far with,
you know, with this as, as possible.
Matt: You know, Liron, makes many
brilliant statements on this podcast,
but at one point he said something that
I think resonated with a lot of different
people, and he was speaking specifically
about his son, about Lavie that.
he's at a level at N-Y-C-F-C as a
goalkeeper, as a U 14 player, where
it's as high as of a level as you
can play in this country, right?
Aside from playing for one of
the US youth national teams.
and at some point, let's hope
there isn't, but there could be.
There, there, there's gonna,
there can be a letdown, right?
Or there will be absolutely.
There, there, there could be a
letdown because there's not much
else to go above, but you can drop.
I'm curious how you approach that as a
dad with Evan and how even if Evan thinks
about that at all, and when you look into
the future, what does that look like?
Justin: Well, we've, we've exp
this year, has been, there's
been a series of let downs.
Right.
I mean, this is, you're no longer one
of the top kids, at least forever.
I mean, there are kids on that team who
are the top kids and trying to figure
out where you fit in in that environment.
especially when most or not
most, well, yeah, most of those
kids are already hitting their.
They're gross spurts.
And you know, I know we talked a little
bit about this ahead of time, but,
um, he's still, he is a smaller guy.
He is, he is like 5'3",
maybe 95 pounds, soaking wet.
so he steps into an environment where
he is, where he is always played
on the wing and he is a fast kid.
And, and then you realize right away
when all these kids are now 5'8",
5'9", a 130, a 140 pounds, real
strong physical kids that he's not
gonna survive very long on the wing.
He's just.
He's just not going to, he is a, he is
a, he is got good movement as a player.
So I think getting on the inside
started to make more sense.
But, but yeah, I mean, a lot of,
a lot of games where you're not.
Getting any playing time or you're maybe
getting a little bit of playing time,
you're playing in different positions
that you're not as familiar with.
you know, like I said, a
lot of very emotional times.
the team recognized like, Hey, we
want to get Evan on the field more.
So they would have him play with the U13s.
so you'd be playing down in age group
Liron: Like a bio band,
or not officially a
Justin: know if it's officially a bio
band, but there's just games throughout
the year where they, where they'd
have him play with that age group.
He is a later in the year birthday kid.
He is an October kid.
So I think that they just see it as,
as you know, but for him, I mean, he
is like, dad, three years ago I was
playing up in age group and now I'm,
you know, and now I'm playing down.
I mean, it's just like
this, like, am I good?
Am I a lot of self-doubt
that comes with that?
And you know.
Liron: Maybe they shouldn't
call it playing down.
Justin: Well, that's
just what the kids say.
I don't,
Liron: No.
I mean, I know, I said maybe
you should change the, the name.
Justin: I, but I get it.
Like, you know, I, if I see it as just,
hey, let, let's get him an opportunity
to play with kids that are maybe more
like where he's at from a, from a
physical development standpoint, right?
It doesn't, who cares
what year you were born.
so, but yeah, I mean, growth for the,
me as a dad and how do I talk to Evan?
How, what kind of
conversations do we have?
And really the biggest thing
that I've learned is that we
don't really talk about soccer.
When he gets in the car after
practice in the beginning of the
year, it was like, how'd it go?
What did you think of the training?
Da da da.
You know?
And he would just look at me like,
and, and I started to learn that,
let's talk about something else.
Let's talk about fishing, let's
talk about, other interests that
he has that, that we're just, and
then when he was ready to talk about
soccer, we would talk about soccer.
And that really helped
our relationship a lot.
Liron: Since you, you live with
him now, and you, you said it
was like a one bedroom apartment.
Do you, you talk about, whose
turn it is to do the dishes.
Justin: Yeah, that's a so, so this
has been wild because this is kind
of like college all over again.
Except for my roommate
is my 13-year-old son.
And, yeah, I mean, it, it, it's
actually, I think it's really helped
him grow up as a kid, you know?
he is just cooking breakfast a little
while ago, so, I mean, he's, yeah, so he
helps out with everything around here.
I mean, it's not like
there's a lot to clean.
It's like 500 square feet, but,
You know, but, but straighten it
up and picking up after himself
and doing the dishes and all that.
Yeah.
It's been
Liron: By cooking, do you mean?
He, he took the box of cereal,
spilled it all over the bowl, and
then walked around the house with
it and left crumbs everywhere and
then, and then left the house.
Justin: this kid makes a mean, he
makes a mean omelet, let me tell you.
No,
Liron: What?
Matt: yeah, man.
Mine too.
Mine too.
Liron: Okay.
I gotta get Lavie.
Hear this, this episode.
I mean, I was at, apropo, we're talking
about, I was at a game yesterday.
We had Evan Rosenthal
from, Manhattan Kickers.
Talk about specifically about
growth of kids and some kids
that went from his academy.
one of the kids that was like a top kid
at that club, coming out into N-Y-C-F-C
definitely has not hit a, a growth
spurt yet, while everybody around him
has, and I saw him play yesterday and
I could tell that he could feel it's,
it's, it's in the psyche of the kid.
He just doesn't have the.
The speedy used store, the strength, he's
not, he still is brilliant of a player,
but the size is, is, is taken its toll.
I was sitting on the side and I was,
I was, I was hanging out with the mom
who's incredibly supportive, but it's
a dilemma where you go, well, how
much do you trust the club to, as a
parent especially, or you put in to,
to kind of go with the kid on the ride
or you go, oh, oh crap, they're gonna
lose their patients soon because.
This is not a long-term vision.
Do you think about that?
Justin: Oh, of course.
Yeah.
We, my wife and I, what we've done,
we, we kind of see this year as, first
of all, well, how do I wanna say this?
We see this as just a overall life.
Growth opportunity for Evan.
and I think when we started to reframe
this in our minds a little bit and
stopped thinking about this, this journey
of like, whatever the heck this is,
you know, whatever, whatever this is,
I don't know what this is like, and we
just reframed it and we started thinking
more in terms of him growing as a, as a,
as a human being and as an individual.
I think it really helped.
Change our, our thought process on
everything because yeah, you, you can
have these conversations where like, well,
is this the best environment for him?
Is his confidence taking a hit?
Would he be better off somewhere else?
And, and, and just sort of go
round and round with all that.
And I, and I think that.
I think it's just pointless.
I, I really do.
I think that us trying to
project what's gonna happen for
a 13-year-old kid is insane.
he's, he is in a great
environment right now.
Training wise, we, we
love the, the coaches.
We love, we love Jose,
the academy director.
they're gonna make the best decision for
the academy and, and then we'll just.
Whatever happens at the
end of the year happens.
Right.
If they see, if they see enough promise
in Evan and they believe that when he
hits his growth spurt, he's gonna be able
to, to do something more, then great.
And if they don't, that's great too.
We'll, we'll, Evan will
continue to grow as a, as a kid.
And that's just the
way we, we approach it,
Matt: That's great.
Sounds so
Liron and Matt: good.
Liron: I was gonna say we should have
him host the podcast for a few months.
You just
Matt: found my replacement, huh?
Liron: No, I don't know.
I, I was gonna say it's my replacement.
Matt: I
Liron: just
Matt: found my replacement.
Justin: I've been listening to you guys.
Matt: we, we had the Red Bull director
on a few weeks ago, Sean, who was great
and spent a bunch of time with us, and
one of the things he talked about was
it's, it's really hard to create the
sort of passion slash intensity slash
kids who are coming from less who.
See everything in this opportunity.
And he said, we've got kids.
He's like, it's hard for those
kids who are, you know, jumping
outta range Rovers and Tesla cyber
trucks to have that same sort of
urgency, that same sort of passion.
I'm curious, I mean, you guys have
had the, the ability to make a move,
get an additional apartment,
split the family up, but I'm
sure he's in an environment which
looks very different than that.
Justin: Yeah.
Matt: how do you, does he recognize it?
How does it evolve?
Are these kids, they're just out there
and they're just, they're just playing
football basically and having
fun and pushing each other?
Justin: I think when you watch the
sessions, which you guys do, I mean,
Liron, you see it at N-Y-C-F-C.
I mean, they're out there
playing soccer, man.
They're having fun.
They're battling all the 1v1 and, and,
and just pushing each other and yeah, I,
I do believe, and I understand that point,
that if you come from nothing, you come
from poverty, that you're, you should
theoretically be fighting a lot more for
this because that's, you're seeing it
as your, your only opportunity in life.
And that's kinda what you're, what
you're, what you're getting at Matt.
And, and so how do you, how
do you create that level of
urgency and that level of, fight?
I, I don't know that you, I don't know
that you can, some kids are gonna have
that in them, and I think that, but
I, I, I can't, I can't replicate that.
Liron: Initially when I wrote the
script, I used the word sacrifice.
But now that, that we're having a
discussion, I, you, you've readjusted that
word probably is not the, the right word
in this sentence, but, but does Evan feel
the pressure of the move that was made?
Does he have like a, a context of what
has happened and can you talk about that a
little bit?
Justin: Yeah.
So when we have some of those more
emotional discussions about this journey
and everything, and, you know, he does,
he does absolutely feel that pressure.
We, we do the best we can to sort
of relieve him of that pressure.
And, and I think how we do that
is by explaining that this wasn't.
Us making this big sacrifice for him.
I mean, this was a choice that we
made as a family and this is something
that we wanted to do overall on it.
And we don't, we don't add pressure
onto him by saying like, look what we're
doing for you, or anything like that.
'cause it's already a pressure
cooker of an environment.
so our job as parents is to kind
of just pull back and, and relieve
him of that pressure, I guess.
Liron: it's not just the physical move.
Matt and I joke about the podcast a
little bit because we always think
like, does it cloud the perception
of our kids that their dads have a
soccer podcast, so there's a, all of
a sudden their dads is like, their
hobby is the kids' main interests.
It's, it's a very.
something that Matt and I discussed a lot.
You also, not just that you moved,
not the one bedroom story, you also
have a freaking training facility,
and so, and all of a sudden you're
like, Mr. Soccer and is, is, you
don't, you don't see a convert.
Yeah.
So does, does Evan feel
that, do you think?
Justin: I suppose I, I, I don't know.
We, we, I guess we haven't
really talked about that.
I think he thinks it's pretty
cool that we have this soccer.
Of course, he, he can never go now
'cause he's in Kissimmee all the time.
But that, that's the other ironic
part about all this is just like.
You know, not that that was,
that was certainly not the
goal of, of soccer, soccer hq.
But, but it was like sort of an
ancillary benefit was that we'd have
this facility and he could just kind of
get in there on rainy days like today
and, and go train for a little while.
And, and I mean, in the past six months,
he's probably been there five times.
Like we just never get an opportunity
for him to go and, and train there.
But, as far as your, your
question about added pressure.
He knows that I'm all in on soccer now.
He, he gets that.
I love it.
And that, you know, I, I don't
think he sees it that way
at all, but maybe he does.
I, I guess we'll find out in therapy,
you know, 20 years from now, so.
Liron: You can have him
join, come on the podcast
next week.
Justin: Exactly.
Exactly.
Matt: you had mentioned a bit
about soccer HQ and the problem
you were trying to solve.
Some of it weather, some
of it weather inflicted.
Right.
and the, the unpredictability
and then other challenges.
What are some of the other challenges
where you saw an opportunity?
Justin: I don't know.
some are challenges and some are
just opportunities, I thought, well,
couldn't we just create an environment
that wasn't about winning and losing
and it was just more about having fun
with soccer, letting soccer kind of be
the vehicle, for development, whether
it's, you know, gross motot development
or social emotional development.
just whatever, like playing with
friends or, and, and then have it
obviously have some structure to
it where you're learning this game.
so then I kept, you know, my wife is a
early childhood, development expert, so
we ha we were constantly having these
kind of conversations and and then we
thought, well, gosh, if you could just
create this environment where for each
age group you're kind of hitting these
developmental milestones and the kids
are falling in love with this game and
having fun and it's not about winning
and losing and, that would be cool.
and that's kind of how
that started, I guess.
Liron: So it's not a
supplemental environment.
Justin: I'd say the way to think about it
is we, we, we see kids as young as two.
and then all the way up to 13.
So it just depends on where they
are in that, in that process
for, you know, two to seven years
old, two to eight years old.
It's, it's just kind of
meeting them where they are.
And then, and then obviously once they
get a little older and they're already
playing club soccer, it is that, you
know, so if you're, if you're, if you're
practicing a couple days a week with
your team and maybe you're struggling
with your confidence or taking.
Whatever the, whatever the
situation may be, it doesn't matter.
we create an environment, it's a safe
environment where, where kids can,
can really build their confidence and,
and can, and sort of develop, start
to understand technique and then turn
that into skill that they can use on
the, on the, on the playing field.
So, it's not, I, I mean there's plenty of
these like technical environments where,
Liron and Matt: Hmm.
Yeah.
Justin: where it's like, you kids
gotta come here and we're the best.
And, you know, it's just,
that's not what we are.
I mean, we, we do have a lot of
really, I, I'd say high level kids
that are training there and that
are growing and, and developing.
But that's not who we are trying to be.
We don't, we
Liron: You do a lot of slow
motion videos of kids dribbling
around cones for social media?
Justin: No, we don't, we do a lot of
videos of kids celebrating scoring goals,
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Justin: like just having fun, man.
It's, it's, it's fun.
And, and I couldn't have done this
without the couple of the people
that I met early on and, and the.
'cause you can dream things and think
of, this would be cool and that's
a good idea and have conversations
with your wife and your friends.
But, but then it's like, okay, now I gotta
get people in here who really understand
the game and who have shared values.
And, I started to reach out to a lot
of the trainers in the area that I've
kind of worked with, with my kid.
Gauge their interests, see if
they knew anybody who might be
interested in something like this.
And, I reached out to is Leo Fernandez.
He plays for the Tampa Bay Rowdies.
of course we know who Leo is in our area.
Leo's like a, a local, just
soccer hero for all the kids.
We went and grabbed coffee and and he's
like, listen man, I'm still playing
for the Rowdy, but I love this idea.
Leo's got a 3-year-old and a 7-year-old.
And he's like, man, I don't know how I
can be involved or how I can help you.
He's like, but I want this place to
open because I want it for my kids.
This just so awesome.
And so Leo was excited about
it and I was like, damn,
So I was like, who else?
and then I remembered coach
Brandon, when Evan was seven,
eight years old and I just loved.
Brandon.
the way he was with the kids and his
passion for the game of soccer, he was
one of the first guys that kind of got me
into the sport I reached out to him and
I told him my idea and he was like, oh
my God, man, I wanna be a part of this.
I love this.
I, so, yeah, I guess that's
kind of how that got going.
and suddenly I'm looking for space and.
I don't know, and then it just happened.
Liron: just, just an amazing journey.
Matt: Are there, I mean, you're probably,
you're early in the process, but are
there, is there a vision to potentially
build these out in other cities, whether
in Florida or around the country?
Justin: It's funny that you, you asked
that because I think in the beginning,
the way I thought about it was, Hey, if
this works and people like it and there's
demand, then it'd be cool to open another
one in Tampa Bay and maybe another one,
you know, and just see where that goes.
the, the, the little bit of research
that I did told me that parents
would be willing to drive about 20
minutes for something like this.
And so we're seeing that.
And we're, we're, like I said,
we're growing and developing.
We've, we've been open
for seven months now.
and, but what's, what's
what's been interesting is.
so Leo did get involved with, with the
business, and he and Brandon are the ones
that built all the programs and they,
they wrote all the programs together.
So Leo is our director of soccer
Development, and then Brandon's
our director of coaching.
And what what's happened with that
relationship with Leo is that he's
kind of given us a little more exposure
than I, I think we even anticipated.
And so now I have guys who are.
Former pro players and different people
that are reaching out to me going, I
love what you're doing at soccer hq.
I'd love to open one of these in Atlanta.
Or I'd love to open one of these in DC.
And so I think there's like, there
might be an opportunity, as you
know, for us right now to potentially
open in different markets too.
So,
Matt: That's great.
Liron: Yeah, that's,
that's pretty amazing.
it probably won't happen in Queens.
Anytime soon, but, but, but I get it.
may, maybe I'll move to, to Florida.
Matt: I'm curious.
we had, we had a guy on, Brando
who started something called Youth
for Youth, which really focuses on.
college players and young
professional players actually.
So it's like a near peer and Liron loves
that term type of thing, where they're
mentoring these 13, 14, 15 year olds.
have you guys thought about
that as part of your curriculum?
Even having like the, the 12 year olds
work with the six year olds, for example,
to, to bring some of that passion.
Justin: I, I think that's a, I
I think it's a fantastic idea.
we have not, we have not had any, you
know, done anything like that, but it
makes sense within our, our construct.
And, and, 'cause you know, you'll,
sometimes you'll have a, a class
of five year olds butting up with
a class of 11 and 12 year olds.
And, you know, it's, it's kind of neat
for the little kids to see the older
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Justin: I could, see how that could work.
Yeah, it's a good idea.
I'll, I'll take that, Matt.
Matt: Alright.
Liron: You know, you know what's, what's,
what's, really depressing here in, in,
in Justin's, short time with the sport.
He's already, learned and
done way more than I have in
a lifetime of pretending.
No, it's all right.
It's fine.
but but what, what if, if you look at it
now, like what did you learn about youth
soccer development that a surprised you?
And two, that, that it's just you,
you, you're seeing that, you say,
okay, here's where I can do and
help and fix both in Evans, Reality.
And of course in this new training
facility that you've done.
Justin: Well, I think, I
think, I think our perspective,
my perspective and, and is.
Unique, right?
Because I'm an outsider.
I'm not, I didn't grow up, I
didn't, I didn't play like at Matt's
level as a, as a college player.
I didn't grow up in the culture
of soccer like you did Liron.
But, what I get to be this kind
of casual outsider, and I, and I
get to look at it all and just see
it from a different perspective.
And I mean, obviously it's, it's
a, it's a business, you know?
and so there's that piece
to it when I think about it.
And the big picture, and why aren't
we the, why aren't we better at
soccer nationally and all this?
I think, you know, the big thing
that I, that I realized is like
there's this cultural component to
soccer that it can't be ignored.
I. We, we have this great, I think it's
actually a pretty good infrastructure.
I mean, there's a lot of flaws with
it, but this, this ability for kids
to get pretty decent, pretty good
training at a young age, and then
sort of progress as they get older.
and then be a part of these teams
and play in these tournaments
and have all these layers of, of,
of, of team levels and all that.
I think.
There's, there's things that
could be better, but, but I think
more than importantly, I think
it's just this culture of soccer
that we're kind of lacking.
We have it in certain communities,
in, in different areas.
But you know, Matt, I'm sure you
can relate to this, but when we were
kids and you wanted to go outside and
play with your friends, everybody was
playing football or basketball, right?
Matt: Yeah, for sure.
Yep.
Justin: just, it was just hard
to get out and get together with
some friends to play soccer.
And, and that was the other thing
that we experienced with Evan when he
was younger, is in the neighborhood.
He just wanted to play soccer.
I mean he, you know, of course
he'll play some football, but he, he
would just be so frustrated that his
friends didn't wanna play soccer.
so I think, I think if we can
create more environments and more.
Atmosphere where, where we're
embracing the culture of soccer, then
I think we can have more success.
but I, I think like one of the things
that's come from this soccer HQ thing
that I didn't really anticipate right
away was just sort of the sense of
community that, that we get, where.
Kids from different clubs and, you know,
different schools or whatever it is, kind
of come together and, and then can play
Matt: I think, I mean, you're touching on
something that I, I think it's important,
and we've talked about this a bit too.
And I think, I can't remember who
put it in the right perspective
for us, but I mean, MLS has been
around for 30 years now, right?
Post the 1994 World Cup, and it
takes a generation or two generations
to become a soccer culture.
So look at, you know, you, I was also
a basketball player in addition to
soccer, but basketball was more of my
passion because I could see, and I
could see these professional players
and I idolized them in soccer.
I had none of that going back into the.
Hate to say this, the seventies
and the eighties, right.
even into the nineties for that matter,
when we started finally being able
to see professional games overseas.
And if you in your household, you
know, this will change when Evan
becomes an adult and soccer is his
love and his passion and you know,
whether his kids choose that or
not, or whatever it may be, right?
But it takes 30 years or 35 years to
like get into this environment where,
or this cult, this culture of loving
the game and having the passion for it.
And you know, Evan's not gonna
have to choose a team with his
son like they will or his kids.
Like they will have a team.
so I, I think we're, we're on the
path, but it doesn't, this is not
a snap your fingers and all of a
sudden we're, we're this like soccer,
you know, this soccer culture where
everybody's infatuated with the game,
but it's developing and takes time.
Justin: It does, and I don't even
know if even with all that that
you just said, Matt, that we'll
ever have like the same culture.
I, I don't know how we could, because
we still have football and basketball
and, and all these other sports.
So you just find your people along the way
and then, and then it sort of develops.
Liron: Yeah.
And a in a half-assed podcast is not
gonna solve that problem, that's for sure.
But, but we're trying
Matt: so deprecating today.
Liron: Yeah, I know, I know it.
You know, it's the morning and I,
and I just, I just look, look, look,
looking at, at Justin and just,
just admire everything he's done and
just, is really just, touching story.
I, I. Just as we kind of, we
start, we start to wrap up.
I want to bring it back a little bit
to, to Evan and, and your experience.
Like what, what would you hope
that, that Evan takes away from,
from this very unique experience
that you've done, with him,
Justin: that's a good question.
I. I mean, listen, I, I hope that,
I hope he is given an opportunity
to, to come back next year.
I hope that, and we will support that.
because I'd, I'd love to see
him kind of see it through a
little bit more, and hopefully
he grows a little bit physically.
but, you know, if he, if he's not
able to do that, I, I think that.
What, what he's been able to experience
just from a training environment, being
around really top level kids who all have
that similar mindset of, of, just, just,
just playing at a, at a high level and
pushing themselves and, and, you know,
and kind of seeing where they can go.
I, I think that there's something
really valuable with that
just for the rest of his life.
Matt: Yeah.
it makes all the sense in the world to me.
And, as much as people want to
talk about development, development
is about having patience.
Right.
And it sounds like, your, your
mindset around it and Evan's mindset,
well, I'm sure he's frustrated.
He's not growing as quickly as he
would like it's gonna happen for
him and when it happens for him.
You know, he's gonna, hopefully
his confidence will, will catapult
him into the next level, right?
Where other kids who have been
physically large, physically bigger,
you know, for, for more years who
haven't had to think or work different
as, you know, as they've had to work.
When you're, when you're not of that
size, that all catches up, right?
Justin: Yeah, I mean, he's 13
years old and there's kids on
his team who have mustaches, and
Evan, you know, Evan's a kid.
Matt: yeah.
Yeah.
Justin: You know, so I know it
happens at different levels and.
Whatever, just, just
have fun playing soccer.
I mean, that's kind of the thing, like
I think sometimes we get a little caught
up on the, the journey and the path and,
and how all this is supposed to work and,
you know, but then we've kinda remember
like, these kids are just playing soccer
and they're, they're having fun and you
know, so I don't want him to lose sight of
that, that this is a game and just go have
fun with your friends and your teammates.
Liron: What, what's your advice for,
a parent on Zillow right now for,
that's looking to, to relocate with,
with their kid for, for a club,
Justin: I don't know.
I don't think I have advice for that.
I really
Liron: Yeah, that's fair.
That's fair enough.
That's, yeah, I would make up
something, but that's fine.
Justin, tomorrow Evan
comes to you and says.
Pops or however he calls
you, sir, or whatever.
He goes, he goes, I'm, I'm, I'm done.
Justin: Yeah.
Liron: Thank you very much.
Justin: I.
What's the next thing?
Yeah, I think that's kind of what's been
best thing about this experience here.
This with Orlando is.
Like you grow as a parent, you know,
I'm growing with him, and what, what
you realize is that this is my, my
son and he is gonna start driving at
this point, his own interests and what
he loves and what his passions are.
So if Evan is no longer passionate
about soccer, or no longer wants to, to,
to, to live this dream, then let's go.
Let's go do something else.
What is it?
Basketball?
What you know?
Do you wanna play the flute?
All right, I'm all in.
Let's go.
Liron: I start a conservatory knowing you
Justin: Something.
I know what, whatever he,
Liron: flute hq.
Yeah.
Matt: but the important takeaway,
right, is just find, it's like
a combination of your passion
and something you're really good
Justin: yeah,
Matt: It's okay to follow your passion,
but if you're not really good at it,
it's tough to make a living doing it.
So.
Justin: all in on it too.
Right.
Matt: And if you're not all in on it
Liron: right
Matt: then.
Yeah.
Right.
What's the investment all about?
Justin: Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't know.
Just, uh, let 'em be kids.
Let 'em figure things out.
Let 'em, let 'em kind of find their path.
I think in the beg, you know, I always,
I always say this, I don't know if
this is, this is the right way to say
it, but I think when they're younger,
you kind of push a little, like
you, you, you see there's interest.
You see there's a talent.
You, you sort of.
You nudge and you push in a direction
and you encourage and, and all that.
And then there comes a point when
they head adolescence, where I think
as parents, we have to, we still
support them, but we kind of have
to pull back a little bit, you know,
like, all right, let them drive.
And, and I think that's what
I'm, what I'm, what I'm learning.
And you know, Evan is still,
he's really driving now.
He is driving and he is.
Like, Hey dad, I wanna go train.
All right, hop in the car, we
grab his balls, his whatever, and
we, we go, go do what he wants
to do, but just pulling back.
Liron: Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
No, but Matt is right.
Uh, as a parent too,
you have to recognize.
Even if you're just new to the
sport or whatever, you have to
recognize that the kid is good at
that specific thing they want to do.
If you're gonna, I mean, it's, I think
it's not just saying, okay, whatever
you want to do, we can do, I think,
Justin: I agree.
I agree.
There's,
Liron: I mean, I mean,
it's part of our job is
Matt: to recognize there's,
there's levels to it, right?
I mean, when they're six years old, do
whatever they want, but when they're 13
years old, you know, if the commitment,
if the passion and, and quality
doesn't align to the commitment, then
that's a, that's a discussion, right?
Liron: Yeah.
Justin: Yeah.
There comes a point where you
have to decide how much do
we want to commit to this?
And, and, and.
Yeah.
Yeah.
For sure.
Liron: Alright.
Well this episode has been the most kind
of parliament, uh, the, the three dads.
You know, this was, this was a big
one.
Well, uh, what a story this is.
Uh, and we wish you nothing but luck.
I know.
We'll, uh, we'll see each other again.
Uh, thank you so much for your time.
Matt: Yeah, it was great.
Yeah.
Wishing you guys all the best of luck.
Wow.
Wow.
All this stuff, this one amazing dad did that I probably
would never dare do.
Matt.
Incredible.
There's I think you need to give some credit to as well. mom and to his sister, too.
It's true.
Ando the kid.
Into the kid.
But Justin's pretty remarkable.
That's true, but I did learn a lot.
There's a moment in this episode that stayed with me just.
Justin says, let them be kids.
Let them figure things out.
Let them kind of find their path.
And that's coming from someone who made a life altering decision for his son.
Yeah, Justin also said something that every parent needs to hear.
When they're younger, you kind of push a little.
You see there's interest.
You see there's talent.
And then there comes a point.
We just kind of have to pull back a little bit, let them drive.
That's the tension.
then pull back.
Support, then step aside.
And maybe the most powerful line in the whole conversation.
If Evan is a no longer passionate about soccer,
then let's go.
Let's go do something else.
Man, that's a release valve if I ever had
one or heard one.
After relocation, the sacrificerifice
after the one bedroom story, he's still saying,
if the passion is in there, we pivot.
Yeah, that is the real lesson.
It's not how far you'll go.
It's whether you are willing to stop.
Yeah, and if this episode resonated, you know what?
Not if I know this episode resonated with you guys
send it to another parent in the middle of a big decision because
these aren't just soccer choices.
These are family choices.
Just like subscribing through this podcast.
And we' we're all just trying to get them right.
Yeah.
You know what?
Matt, what a pleasure.
This is chasing the game.
Youth soccer in America.
Until next time.