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Building Doors is a podcast about Inspiring Leaders who have created their own opportunities and are thought leaders, industry advocates and change makers in their field. This podcast gives you the resources, insights and steps to stop waiting for opportunities and start building your doors for success. Listen to this podcast to gain the resources, career tips and hands-on advice on how you can gain clarity and build doors in your own life and career.
Marissa Pohlman (00:00):
My name is Marissa Williamson Pohlman. I'm a proud Ngarrindjeri woman from South Australia with strong family connections to Quandamooka, Yeidji, and Wurundjeri Woiwurrung. I'd like to acknowledge the [inaudible 00:00:10] people of [inaudible 00:00:11], the colonial state of Queensland. I pay my respects to elders past, present, and emerging. Sovereignty was never ceded. This land was never sold, but this will always be Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander land.
(00:25)
In my culture, we always think about the seven generations before and the seven generations after. I want to be that role model to young people because one day I'm going to be the team captain and they're going to be aspiring to be like me and they're going to be on the team and I'm going to be mentoring them.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Welcome to Building Doors. In this series, you'll develop the skills to build a roadmap for success. Get inspired by those leaders who have come before you and give you the confidence to stop waiting and start building.
Lauren Karan (00:59):
Welcome to Building Doors, the podcast where we delve into the extraordinary stories of individuals who've paved their own way to achieving the success, freedom, and purpose in their lives today.
(01:11)
Joining us, we have an exceptional guest, Marissa Williamson Pohlman, who is a proud Ngarrindjeri with strong family connections to Quandamooka, Yeidji, Wurundjeri and Woiwurrung. Riss is a two-time Australian champion boxer and someone who I feel embodies the spirit of the Building Doors Podcast. Riss has competed both nationally and internationally collecting an impressive list of achievements under her belt. Within only four years of her boxing career so far, she's achieved so many milestones, including two-time National Boxing Champion, 2019 NAIDOC Sportsperson of the Year, 2021 Sports Australia Hall of Fame Scholarship holder and national representative on the high performance national boxing team. She's also toured Europe with the Australian boxing team where she was selected as a representative for the Women's World Boxing Champions team in India. Her next milestone will be the National Boxing Championships, with her ultimate goal, to head the Olympics.
(02:21)
While her introduction to boxing began as an outlet to keep her away from detention after a tough childhood of foster care and homelessness, she quickly fell in love with the sport and turned it into a career. Outside of boxing, Riss works as a Heritage policy officer at the Department of Premier and Cabinet, Victoria, providing a First Nations perspective into policymaking. As a proud Ngarrindjeri woman, she's deeply passionate about caring for the country and its restoration. She's committed to promoting community-led and endorsed land management from policy to practice.
(02:55)
Welcome to the Building Doors Podcast Riss. I'm so inspired the more I hear about your career journey that you've been able to overcome so many obstacles to get to where you are today. So tell us about what that journey's been like for you and where you started from.
Marissa Pohlman (03:13):
So I was playing AFL at a pretty high level. I was 16. I was playing for a talent squad, the Richmond Football Club. And I started boxing. I was naive at the time, I didn't realize that I was walking into a gym for at-risk youth and that was keeping kids in care and in residential care out of trouble really and out of detention. And then, I really took a liking to boxing for whatever reason. And then, I just shortly hanged up the football boots and never really looked back with the boxing. But yeah, it's changed my life. And the 17-year-old that walked into that gym, I honestly couldn't possibly imagine to be in the position that I am right now.
Lauren Karan (04:00):
You're 17 and you are walking into this gym, how do you get the mindset to keep working so hard at something? I've always been inspired by successful sports people because of that mindset and that grit and determination you need. How do you keep your mindset strong?
Marissa Pohlman (04:14):
I mean, the truth is it's not always. It's kind of like fake it till you make it. I guess, I just really enjoyed it. And even during the hard times, if you take the hard road, you'll live an easy life. So I always think about, if I just persevere, then something good will come from that, and so far, so good.
Lauren Karan (04:33):
Yeah. What obstacles were you up against when you wanted to get into boxing? So what were some of the challenges early on when you started training? Was it difficult to be able to get to the gym and commit to everything that you needed to do from a training perspective early on?
Marissa Pohlman (04:48):
Well, I grew up in out-of-home care and I was in full-time care from ages nine to 17. So I was living in a suburb in the western suburbs of Melbourne, which has the highest rate of Aboriginal children living in out-of-home care in Victoria. And at the time, it was really a turbulent period where I was just going from house to house to house and experienced homelessness frequently. I actually was homeless without a coach because my coach, at the time, was also my foster carer. So I ended up homeless at 17 when he relinquished care and I ended up going to... Actually, my auntie is Lidia Thorpe, Senator Thorpe sent me some money to go to the Nationals in Queensland. And that's when I went on to win the youth national title. If I didn't do that, I don't know what I would be doing right now, so I'm really thankful to Auntie Lidia for what she's done for me.
Lauren Karan (05:49):
Yeah. I think a lot of times, and we've spoken about this, people don't understand what's involved. When you showed me your schedule and what you had this past week, I was like, "Oh my gosh." I think a lot of people don't understand what's involved and the intensity involved in training and the fact that you also have a job that you do as well. Talk me through a normal week of training for you. What's involved from when you wake up to when you go to bed?
Marissa Pohlman (06:13):
So at the moment, I wake up at 5:00 AM, I get a session done, it's probably a run or a sprint session. Then I go to work. I start work at 8:00 AM, work till 4:00 PM. Quickly get changed, go to training and I'm there probably until 7:30 PM, 8 o'clock, drive straight home, get ready for bed and pass out. And that's basically Monday to Friday. And then, Saturday, I'm in the gym, basically, from eight to one just to make up for those extra hours that I missed during the week.
(06:42)
But also on top of that, I have a lot of practitioners, I have a doctor, a physio, a chiro, a naturopath, two dieticians, a psychologist, a psychiatrist because that's what it takes to be at this high level. But also, as an elite athlete in Australia, there's the expectation that you, medal at the Olympics or you go to the Olympics, but you're a fully self-funded athlete, so also, managing myself, managing my sponsorships, seeking sponsorships. It's really hard.
(07:16)
But also, working full-time and also volunteering. I kind of just had to set the boundary, but up until now, I was the secretary of the Victorian Black Reigns. I was doing secretariat work in the political party, so don't ask me why I did that, but it's been a lot.
Lauren Karan (07:35):
Okay. So I'm not going to ask you why you did it from a time's perspective, but I am going to ask you where the passion came from because obviously when you volunteer, it's always something that you are passion or interested in. So when you started doing the volunteer work and in that side of things, what draw that area or that interest for you?
Marissa Pohlman (07:51):
Australia is going through a paradigm shift. There's the Europe Justice Commission in Victoria, treaty in Victoria and the referendum that's happening at the end of the year near the Voice to Parliament. I just had this community and cultural obligation to use my knowledge and my weight, if you will, to throw around to support my community in any way I can. And that was a time when Lidia, because I also feel obligated because of what Lidia Thorpe has done for me in my life. So when she was in the party, that was when I was there, but since she's left and when I was in Europe, she was getting dragged in the media. And when I was in India, I remember I was at a aspiring session, I just picked up my phone and she was getting dragged across the ground by police. And that was when I was like, I just can't be part of this political party anymore. They've done nothing to support her. So that's why I've stopped.
Lauren Karan (08:50):
Yeah, that's sad. That's quite sad that she put her heart into something. And it must've been hard for you seeing that happen to her and seeing that the media... and you know that kindness that she's done for you, you know her at a deeper level than other people would do.
Marissa Pohlman (09:04):
It's literally systemic racism. I haven't seen any white woman who's in politics be dragged through the media the way that she has been dragged through the media.
Lauren Karan (09:12):
Yeah, it's really disappointing that you had to experience that too, especially with how much she's done for you. So when you are looking at your career, so you've got your boxing, and just hats off to you, what you've achieved, I don't even know how you have achieved it. You know when people go, "How do you do it all?" You must-
Marissa Pohlman (09:30):
"I don't know, girl. [inaudible 00:09:32]. I don't know."
Lauren Karan (09:34):
How do you fit it all in? But then, you've got your other role, so tell me more about your studies and things like that that you've been doing in your day job.
Marissa Pohlman (09:42):
So during COVID, there was a job advertisement. I was freshly 18. Melbourne was the most lockdown city in the whole world, 5K radius. And it was a job opportunity for a First Nations ranger trainee. And so, then I got my Cert. III in Land Conservation and Management. And I just developed so much cultural knowledge, plant knowledge, water knowledge, and then I went on to becoming Victoria's very first cultural heritage officer, which was a massive deal for the Victorian community because 90% of cultural heritage is on private land. And then, went in, stepped into this new role in heritage policy, first people state relations. And that's a new role. And like I said, it's the hardest time to be an aboriginal person working in government because there is a complete shift in everything. Everything is about to change. There's going to be mass reform across the state of Victoria and nationally as well. So it's been a lot, the cultural load on top of what I'm already doing from day to day and week to week is immense and I can feel the weight now.
Lauren Karan (10:53):
Tell me more about when you talk about cultural load and systemic racism, does that show up and obviously in the boxing world sometimes for you as well? You've traveled globally and things like that, do you experience that weight there as well or is it more from the work side of things?
Marissa Pohlman (11:08):
I'd say definitely it's more from the work side of things because I'm actively participating in it. I'm in that space constantly, but of course, I'm white-presenting, so I feel like at times I'm not white enough, but I'm not Black enough either. So I feel like I caught racism from both sides and a lot of mixed First Nations people actually feel that way. That's just been my experience though.
Lauren Karan (11:32):
Yeah. Yeah. In terms of your career now, and looking at boxing, looking at the work that you're doing, what's the impact that you hope to make? Because we've spoken before and you're a fairly passionate person and I loved that about you, what are some of the changes that you want to see happen in our country?
Marissa Pohlman (11:52):
Honestly, full self-determination. Australia is the only country or Anglo-colonized country in the world that does not have a treaty with its first peoples, so that needs to happen. I don't want to put my personal opinions in here too much, but there needs to be more than their voice. There needs to be self-determination. We have our own table and we're fully self-governing ourselves and making decisions for our people without government timelines and agendas and whatnot. That's where I see it. But also, allies doing the work themselves. They don't have the social license anymore, people don't have the social license anymore to not know, be ignorant. They need to educate themselves because if you don't even know whose country you're living on, for example, how are we supposed to actually dismantle the real challenges that the community are facing?
Lauren Karan (12:45):
Yeah, makes sense. So tell me, around your boxing career today, what's next for you? What is your next sort of five-year plan? And what are you hoping to achieve?
Marissa Pohlman (12:57):
Dear Lord. I'm not a year by year type of girl, I'm a day by day type of woman, but I'd say the Nationals are coming up and I have a really strong competitor in that weight category now, so if I got it over her, that would be awesome on my resume. Kaye Scott, she's been undefeated in Australia for 12 years. She's coming down from 70 kilos to 66. She's currently the number two in the world. So to beat her would probably set up my whole boxing career to be honest, and to go to the Pacific Games as number one, 66, and go on to becoming the first aboriginal woman to represent Australia in the Olympics in boxing. There's never been an aboriginal woman in the sport of boxing go to the Olympics. So that would be an amazing achievement, but I'm only 21 years old, so I don't even know.
Lauren Karan (13:49):
It's day by day.
Marissa Pohlman (13:50):
It's a day by day thing. I'd love to keep progressing in my role and potentially, once I hang up the gloves, go onto studying science and law and really just put my full focus into that.
Lauren Karan (14:02):
I love that. It's almost like you've got two goals. You've got your sporting career, but then, you're also highly active in land management and that side of things as well. So you've got two things that you're really passionate about that are going on in your life.
Marissa Pohlman (14:15):
It's good and bad because it's like I've got a plan B that I can fall back onto because boxing you can't do forever. But also, it's really hard because I get sort of this imposter syndrome and this really sense of obligation and I feel like I'm not doing enough, which I'm doing a lot, I'm doing a lot.
Lauren Karan (14:35):
Yeah, you are.
Marissa Pohlman (14:36):
But it's like, oh, I should be working more, I should be training harder, but there's not enough time in the day to work harder or train more. So just looking after myself is probably the biggest thing.
Lauren Karan (14:45):
Yeah, because when you've got two things, that is so huge at the level that you're at with boxing and then the work that you're doing, when they're both feeling and being satisfied and going, "I'm enough. What I'm doing in my day is amazing, and what I'm able to do," but it's hard to mentally say that to yourself as well when you've got so much that you want to achieve.
Marissa Pohlman (15:06):
My psychologist said that the reason I feel this way is because especially in the cultural heritage space and traditional owners feeling empowered to assert their cultural rights, there's always going to be work. You'll do something, but there'll be the next thing to do because it's such. There's so much work. You can't undo colonization, but there's a lot of work that needs to be done to repatriate. But also, with boxing, I'm on the Australian team and they're freaks. They're training really hard. I'm training the hardest in my gym in my state probably, but when you go into the team, some of them are only working casually because they're so fully committed to boxing, but I just can't do that because of the community and cultural responsibility that I feel like I have.
Lauren Karan (15:54):
Yes. And the other thing I wanted to talk to you about is the funding side of it. This is really interesting and I don't think the general public would understand how it works. Tell us about how athlete funds this kind of journey, and especially with trying to juggle work and training commitments. How does the funding work?
Marissa Pohlman (16:11):
Personally, I don't even feel like I'm working because it's my life and my community's life and whatever. But obviously, working full-time, every cent I make goes into funding boxing. And once you get a certain level of categorization, then you'll get 75% or a hundred percent of your trips paid for, but at the moment, I'm mostly self-funding myself. And if I win at the Nationals this year, in July, I'll be on tour with the team and I'll have to take that time off work and potentially lose my job, not to say that I will, but if I'm not going to be there, they'll probably look for someone else that can do the full-time commitment. So there's a lot to think about, so it's the loss of income when I'm away, it's the actual cost of the trip, the cost of training, also the cost of living when I'm overseas, but also when I'm at home for rent and bills. It's a lot. It's a lot.
Lauren Karan (17:10):
I think people don't realize that. People look at athletes and they go, "Well, it's amazing what they can achieve," and it is. People just look at the training perspective and they go, getting yourself to that elite level would be a lot of work, but I think people don't realize the funding side of it and being able to keep a job, keep funding the training, keep funding the trips is a huge, huge problem or struggle for athletes as well, which I didn't realize until we started talking around what's involved. And how long will you have to go over? When you travel, how long is it for?
Marissa Pohlman (17:43):
Well, I got invited to this camp in Queensland and this was a whole week. I'll be back for a week. And then, I'll be gone for another 10 days. And then, I'll be back for a few days. I think it's like 12 days. And I'll be going to WA. If I'm on the team, then there's another camp in Canberra, Bosnia, Queensland, again, Solomon Island. Then there's camps leading up to the Paris Games in America and Asia. And then, we're going to Nancy in France. So if you're gone for those periods of time, paying for the actual trip, paying for the cost of living, paying for the training, paying for the recovery feels impossible, it feels really impossible. I'm like, how am I ever... The reality also is, to get better, you train more, go overseas, you fight more, but if you don't have the funds to fund the opportunity, then you'll miss out, you won't get better. So it's kind of like a vicious cycle at the moment.
Lauren Karan (18:38):
Yeah, you need the funds to be able to do more, but then, at the same time, you try and juggle work and things like that. We will put a link at the episode, that's why sponsorship's so important and being able to get that funding.
(18:50)
If someone's listening to this episode right now and they're feeling like they've got a big goal that they want to do, that imposter syndrome it's coming in hard and they're not sure if they can get there. What are some of the things you say to yourself? Because I had another guest on recently who was talking about her own inner voice. And she came from a really tough childhood and she had an inner voice that always said to her, "You don't belong here. You keep striving." What are some of the things you say to yourself to stay focused?
Marissa Pohlman (19:19):
Honestly, it just depends. There's times where I'm feeling on top of the world and there's other times where I'm not, and that's just the human experience. We're not always going to feel amazing, but always just self-reflecting and thinking about the 17-year-old girl that was down and out, homeless, couldn't afford to eat, who just always dreamed of being an Australian champion and having her own house and having an established family and a good coach, and I have all of those things now. If I think about it like that, I've already got everything I want, so I've really got nothing to lose.
Lauren Karan (19:49):
Yeah, that's a good way of looking at it too.
Marissa Pohlman (19:51):
Yeah.
Lauren Karan (19:52):
Yeah. Did you ever think or did you think in your mind that this was going to be possible for you?
Marissa Pohlman (19:57):
No way. I always dreamed about it though. I manifested it so much. I would dream about it. I would literally go to sleep at night and dream about it. It's like it came overnight. It just happened overnight. It's weird I'm on the team. And there's people that are on the team that have gone to a Commonwealth Games and gone to the Olympics, they've medaled. There's people I'm going to have to fight that I used to look up to, aspired to be like. My team captain, Caitlyn Parker, literally, she was the one that I wanted to be like and now I'm on her team, she's my team captain.
(20:31)
Honestly, that's why I always have time for young people. In my culture, we always think about the seven generations before and the seven generations after. I want to be that role model to young people, because one day I'm going to be the team captain and they're going to be aspiring to be like me and they're going to be on the team and I'm going to be mentoring them. So, that will come around, or the cycle of life will come around. Yeah.
Lauren Karan (20:56):
I don't know if you realize what you did then, but I loved it, you said, "One day I'm going to be the team captain." And I love how the language you use is, "I'm going to," which, just to me, sums up the determination I see in you. You put your mind to something, you manifest it, you sleep and think about it. And it's not a question of if I become, you're like when I become. I love that. Sometimes the way people say something makes you realize how determined you are that you know that you're going to make it happen.
Marissa Pohlman (21:24):
The use of language is literally so important. Sometimes you remember things people say years later and the way that you talk to yourself and about yourself to others and just internally is so important.
Lauren Karan (21:39):
I think sometimes people don't think about... Do you ever have that where you might give someone a piece of advice or you might say something or someone says something to you and it might've just been a passing comment to them, but if it really meant something with you, it sticks with you, and it's something you can think of from years and years to come? Has there ever been a piece of advice like that that someone's given to you?
Marissa Pohlman (21:57):
Literally, I said it before, if you take the hard road, you'll live an easy life. Two years ago, I had a pretty terrible suicide attempt. My first instinct was to call my boxing coach at the time and he picked me up from the hospital and he basically sat me down and he was like, "Something needs to change." So he encouraged me to move out into my own place and just really take the time to get to know myself and reestablish my life and rewrite my life because it wasn't going well. And I would just be training so hard. We'd be training so hard together. And he never missed a training. We were there six days a week together and messaging me, calling me after every training session and he just kept saying to me, "If you take the hard road, you'll live an easy life," and that's what I continue to do.
Lauren Karan (22:59):
Thank you for sharing that story. I'm glad you shared that because it's almost like people see athletes as superheroes. Seriously. There's no other way to describe it. And if someone can hear that you've had those struggles too and you've gone through those dark moments and it was someone's words that was able to kind of help pull you out, you can make a difference in someone's life by being there for them and reminding them that there's a light at the end of the tunnel, that their struggles are going to lead somewhere.
(23:25)
We've talked before about toxic positivity. I want you to share this because I was like, when Riss spoke to me about this, I was like, this is the thing. It's good to have a strong mindset, don't get me wrong, but then we had a chat about it, and I think it's important to talk about it now, the impact toxic positivity can make when maybe someone is in a dark place. Tell me more around your thoughts on that.
Marissa Pohlman (23:45):
So I've been diagnosed with complex PTSD and I do suffer with anxiety. And I used to just pretend like the feelings weren't there and that I was so tough and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I think what makes you tough is actually feeling your emotions and asking for help when you need it. I'm very open about the fact that I have a psychologist that I've seen for the last three years, I have a psychiatrist. And also, I'm very transparent about how I'm feeling.
(24:16)
People will actually say to me, "You need to keep your cards closer to your chest," but I'm quite happy to share exactly how I'm feeling so people feel like they're not alone. Because we always think that we're having this individual experience, but it's actually a collective experience, a lot of people feel this way.
(24:36)
Sometimes listening to a happy song and going out and meditating and manifesting is just a load of shit, it's just a load of shit. Sometimes you need to go and get help, go to therapy, move houses, cut off people out of your life, go on medication. Sometimes that's what you need to do. And the other stuff is great, but I think there's a massive stigma around doing that stuff. It's very necessary, trust me, take it from me, honey. [inaudible 00:25:06].
Lauren Karan (25:09):
I think it's interesting what you spoke about as well because a lot of what you said is just doing stuff, doing stuff that's hard and uncomfortable, going to see a psychologist, seeing a psychiatrist, seeing if there's something going on, dealing with your trauma, dealing with things that in the past may still be coming up for you. And I think all the manifesting and meditation in the world's not going to help if you've got that stuff going on, really, at the end of the day.
Marissa Pohlman (25:33):
100%.
Lauren Karan (25:34):
I want to talk about your life now. So you juggle your work, you juggle your training and things like that. What's the next year look like for you with travel and things like that? Tell us more about what's up ahead. What's the plan?
Marissa Pohlman (25:47):
So the new national coach, Coach Santiago, he basically said once you've made the team for the Pacific Game, which will be in November... So the Nationals are in five weeks in WA. And then, basically, from there, we'll be in camps in Canberra and Brisbane, Bosnia, and then we'll go to the Pacific Games and the southern islands. And then, all of next year, like USA, Asia, we'll just be in camp, basically, all the way up until the Paris Games, which will be in July. So I probably won't even have the capacity to work, so that will be an interesting time probably-
Lauren Karan (26:27):
Sponsorship's going to be really important for you.
Marissa Pohlman (26:29):
It's going to be vital.
Lauren Karan (26:30):
Yeah, for you to be able to do it. Okay. I want to ask you a question just out of my curiosity.
Marissa Pohlman (26:35):
Mm-hmm.
Lauren Karan (26:36):
Boxing.
Marissa Pohlman (26:36):
Yeah.
Lauren Karan (26:37):
Now, I do boxing, not the same as you, fair. I do boxing in a bootcamp. I'm not great at it. I'm a bit stiff on my legs, I've been told, can't quite move as nimble as I should. With boxing, what are, I guess, the top three things you learn in boxing? So what are the important things around, I don't know, whether it form or... I just want to know, if I want to be a better boxer and there's someone's listening that wants to be better, what's three things we could do to get better?
Marissa Pohlman (27:00):
I think just confidence. I think your self-efficacy is so important. Fake it till you make it. If you think you're doing well, then you will do well. I believe that wholeheartedly. I don't know technique-wise-
Lauren Karan (27:14):
Just so I can maybe get my trainer and just really shock them with some cool technique.
Marissa Pohlman (27:18):
Just turning your knuckles over when you punch, so hitting with the last three knuckles.
Lauren Karan (27:22):
Oh, yeah? Okay.
Marissa Pohlman (27:24):
And what else? And just having a good guard.
Lauren Karan (27:27):
Yeah. Do you have to have quick reflexes?
Marissa Pohlman (27:30):
Yes.
Lauren Karan (27:30):
Okay. Because I was going to say I think I'd get punched in the face a lot because I would not pick it up quick enough.
Marissa Pohlman (27:35):
It doesn't get easier either. It actually gets harder the better you get.
Lauren Karan (27:39):
And what are the qualities that you see in those really, and you being one of them, professional athletes in the boxing side. Gil's laughing at me. I want to know and get better at boxing, Gil. Okay? What are the qualities you see in the professional, elite athletes in boxing that kind of makes them stand out, like you'd know in your team? What are some of the great things that you see that they do?
Marissa Pohlman (28:00):
They are just so professional. They embody what a professional athlete is. They sleep, eat, breathe boxing. It is a job to them. When you get into the ring, you get a job done. You commit yourself to a task. There's a quote in my gym, it's like, if you say you're going to do something, you do it. And I think watching people, oh, my God, going to Europe and India was just such a humbling experience because Australia is so far away from everyone, like every country, and boxing in Australia, especially women's boxing, it's a popular sport, but it's very underfunded and still growing in that space, so going overseas, and they're literally just freaks. They've been doing this their whole lives. Basically, some of the photos they'll post is like, "I've always wanted to be an Olympic champion," and they're like two years old with boxing gloves on.
Lauren Karan (28:53):
Wow.
Marissa Pohlman (28:54):
Literally, they're just freaks and they're just massive. And it was such a humbling experience. I came home and I was like, "I've got to train harder," like I could have trained a lot harder.
Lauren Karan (29:05):
"This person's been doing it since they were two, I've got some time to catch up on here."
Marissa Pohlman (29:10):
I've got a lot of time to catch up on.
Lauren Karan (29:10):
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I love that. And I love people that put so much effort into determination into something like that because it wouldn't be easy to be able to, especially as a child, if they're knowing is from the age of two that that's what they want to do, it's like molding their whole life around it.
Marissa Pohlman (29:27):
But also, like I said before, it could also be a negative thing because their world will come crashing down if they don't achieve that goal because that's all they thought about their whole life. They haven't done anything else. And for me, that's kind of a positive thing. It's like, yeah, I really love boxing. I try really hard. I train really hard. I put a lot into this. But also, I put a lot into making sure I do other things too. So I'm not kind of in limbo. If I fail tomorrow or broke a bone or whatever, I'm not going to be stuffed. I'll have other things. I'll have a life after boxing.
Lauren Karan (30:03):
I think it's important for people to think of their backup plan in things like boxing, in things like entertainment, if you're a musician or a singer or you are in another career, it is important to think around. It's great to aim towards and want that to happen, but what else is there out there for you? What's going to keep you grounded as well as you're doing these great, big things, having another career?
Marissa Pohlman (30:24):
Well, my thing is my identity is not boxing. Even with my boxing coach, last year, when I was writing my goals for the year, I didn't think I was going to win the Nationals. I bet Jess Messina who had almost 90 fights, and then I bet Nina Schuster, who was a silver medalist at the Junior World Championships. No one expected me to win that championships. But at the start of the year, I wrote the goal of, I want to get a coffee with my coach every day, and we did. And he said, "We can solve the problems of the world over a cup of coffee."
(30:59)
I think what makes up Marissa is the weird relationships. I have just little friends and connections with people everywhere. But seeing myself, I apply myself in so many areas. I just want to be the best version of myself. I want to be able to conversate with people and help them if they need help. I want to be educated. No one in my family has ever gone to university. I'd love to go to university and have a degree and do something in that sort of realm. But also, no one my family's ever been a high performance athlete, and that's pretty awesome too, so-
Lauren Karan (31:35):
Yeah, I think so too.
Marissa Pohlman (31:38):
But don't set boundaries or barriers. I don't want to limit myself. The sky is literally the limit. You can literally do anything you want to do.
Lauren Karan (31:45):
Yeah, well you're proof of that for sure. You've said that as well, I think, how did you find the boxing gym initially? I think you'd mentioned to me that you were actually sleeping on top of the gym at one point, was that correct? Like way back, early on.
Marissa Pohlman (31:57):
Yeah. That was my second gym. So the first gym, my boxing coach was a foster carer, he relinquished care. I went on to win the Youth National Championships. And there was this fellow there that was like, "Where's your coach?" And I was like, "I don't have one." And then, I got cornered by the Vic team when I won the national title. So this fellow James Roesler, he took me in and I ended up just living above, I actually ended up working for him for a bit too to earn some money, ended up living above his gym. And yeah, it wasn't ideal.
Lauren Karan (32:31):
And you got there without a coach as well. It's just you amazing. I love it. And I just think if people are listening right now and you think that you can't do something, but you really want to do it, I don't know, I think Riss kind of tells you that there's no real excuse.
Marissa Pohlman (32:46):
I mean, there can be, I think it was like a quote by Malcolm X, by any means necessary, so that's do what you got to do, just to get it done.
Lauren Karan (32:58):
Well, I think you're very impressive. And I think what you've done... And I think that you're definitely somebody worth getting behind because I don't know, you've got some good odds there of going pretty well in the Olympics by the sounds of things with all the history to date. So look, I'm going to go into our rocket round now and find out a little bit more around you. It's just a few questions as I know we've got to get Riss back to training. So first question, favorite book?
Marissa Pohlman (33:23):
Favorite book? Look, I just read random things. I'm currently reading True Tracks, which is by a intellectual property rights lawyer, a First Nations intellectual property rights lawyer, Terry Janky, but favorite book of all time, I'm going to say anything by Geronimo Dalton, that little rat. He's like a little children's book. Love those.
Lauren Karan (33:50):
Oh, cute. I had an obsession with Dr. Seuss, but I'm going to check that one out. I'm always reading new books to my kids, so I'll check that one out. Coffee or wine?
Marissa Pohlman (33:57):
If you wonder how I get through my days, it's like seven cups of coffee minimum a day. I'm not even joking. I wish I was lying, but that's literally the truth.
Lauren Karan (34:06):
Okay, so definitely coffee. What is your favorite holiday destination or place that you visited?
Marissa Pohlman (34:10):
I've actually never gone on a holiday. I've always traveled for either boxing or for AFL. But I would love... I don't even know. The possibility is endless. I think doing a return to country when I went home to Ngarrindjeri country last year with my family, yeah, that was like the most amazing experience of my life.
Lauren Karan (34:35):
Mm-hmm. And what makes you feel like you're home?
Marissa Pohlman (34:40):
Oh, just the people. I don't care where I am, just the people that are in my inner circle. I just love them all so much. We could have nothing and I'd still be happy.
Lauren Karan (34:53):
I love that. And the podcast that you've been listening to right now, what are some of the podcasts?
Marissa Pohlman (34:58):
Just little shout out to my sissy girl, Fill My Cup, Neuro Potter. She's a First Nations woman.
Lauren Karan (35:03):
Oh, I love that. What's it called?
Marissa Pohlman (35:05):
Fill my Cup.
Lauren Karan (35:06):
Fill my cup. Okay. Going to check that one out. Yep. Okay, so look, thank you so much for coming on and being a guest. I'm conscious of time because you've got to get back to training and your hectic schedule, which is very-
Marissa Pohlman (35:18):
I'm honestly genuinely shocked that we actually could find time in between the session-
Lauren Karan (35:23):
Well, this was a journey, wasn't it? Backwards and forwards just like, "Oh, I can't do that." I was like, "What about this time?" Because you are so busy with your schedule and then, I'm trying to run a business too. I can't believe we got here.
Marissa Pohlman (35:35):
It was like a total of 14 sessions in the last seven days.
Lauren Karan (35:39):
14 in seven days, yeah. I looked at your diary and I was like, "Riss, I don't know. What are we going to do?" But we made it happen. And NAIDOC Week as well, so have you been trying to fit in stuff with it there as well for this week?
Marissa Pohlman (35:52):
Honestly, sometimes, it's nice to be away from community because I feel like I get that cultural load and a lot of burnout. I'm always celebrating being a Black woman, always am celebrating being First Nations. It was nice to do, I ran a session yesterday with team, and just showed them. We did a yarning circle, that's a cultural practice, and showed them some of my cultural items. But I actually got to learn things about my team that I didn't know before because they had a space that was open to just talk about what they wanted to talk about. But when I go home on Sunday, it'd be nice to just have some dinner with my mom and just probably cuddle there for a while before I have to get ready for work the next day and go back to training again, so yeah.
Lauren Karan (36:38):
And how can people listening support you? Tell us more about sponsorship opportunities and things like that, and I will list it with the episode as well.
Marissa Pohlman (36:44):
Yeah, obviously, just any supports, good support. Give me a follow on my Instagram, risswillpohl, and I've got a link in there to donate if people have the capacity, and it's a hundred percent tax-deductible.
Lauren Karan (37:01):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're going to give a donation for sure. Yeah.
Marissa Pohlman (37:04):
Thank you.
Lauren Karan (37:05):
There's no way that I could not donate because I'm just so inspired by what you're doing. And I definitely encourage people, I'm going to share a link in the episode guide as well, please get on, follow Riss, support her. Let's get Marissa to the Olympics.
(37:18)
Thank you for listening to Building Doors Podcast, like, share, rate, review, all that fun stuff, and we'll see you next time.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Thanks for listening to Building Doors. If you've got comments or questions, send them to hello@buildingdoors.com.au. And remember to subscribe, rate and review. See you next time.