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Real conversations across the generations exploring God's wisdom for modern families.
Find out more:
Growing Faith (a ministry of Youthworks): www.growingfaith.com.au
Mothers Union Sydney: www.musydney.org.au
ZOOM0025_Tr2: there's so many things to
enjoy in this life so it's a question of
balance Sometimes the balance goes too
far we have a lot on but it's something
that I'm really to continue working
on with our, kids and, set them up for
a life where they do have a, balance
of life and fun that is mixed through
with their Christian walk throughout
All that they do and not separated
This is Timeless Parenting where
we have real conversations across
the generations exploring God's
wisdom for modern families.
Brought to you by growing faith
in Mother's Union, Sydney.
ZOOM0025_Tr1: well, welcome everybody to
another episode of the Timeless Parenting
Podcast we are gonna tackle today a
great topic, a topic I've agonized over
quite a lot in our own family life.
We are going to be talking about
extracurricular activities, the
things apart from school that our
children might wanna get involved in.
So just to introduce the topic
a little bit before we start and
before we introduce our guests today.
When it comes to extracurriculars, I think
we all want good things for our children.
We want them to have a rounded education.
We want them to enjoy sport,
physical activity, uh, we want
them perhaps to learn music.
Um, we want them to be involved in these
kind of extracurricular activities.
But at the same time, I look around
and see other families that I know.
It seems to go to an extreme where
they seem to have something on every
afternoon after school and they're
running from one thing to the next.
I see them not having much family time.
I wonder how they can manage to
pay for all these activities.
Um, and so we can be sort of,
worried when we see the extremes.
Uh, and so I think, it's about
balance really, and for Christians,
then we've got the issue of church.
We think, well, we don't really
want church just to be another
extracurricular activity that we're
trying to squeeze into the week.
So that is the dilemma and the topic
that we're gonna be addressing today.
How do we find a balance between
all these good things and not
take any one thing to an extreme?
So, uh, my name is Harriet Connor, as you
know, I'm the content editor of Growing
Faith and Online Christian Parenting
Magazine run by YouthWorks Media.
And we have four sons.
So when it comes to extracurriculars,
I've been particularly hesitant 'cause
I've imagined us racing around here,
there and everywhere on the weekends.
Um.
It's funny when you see those
cars and it says, mom's taxi,
I don't wanna be that mom.
I don't wanna be a taxi.
So we've been very hesitant.
We haven't let our sons
do any organized sport.
Um, outside of school they do, um, music
within school hours and with their school.
They've also done, um, some drama.
Been involved in musicals,
plays, that kind of thing.
Um, and they do do one thing which
they, uh, up until recently, the older
three have all done the same activity.
Cadets, little shout out to
the Australian Cadet Corps.
They've done that at the same
place at the same time every week.
At the end of our street.
So I've been more on the hesitant side
and from getting to know our guest
today, I have gained a much bigger
perspective on the value and the beauty of
extracurriculars, not just for the kids.
So we're here more about that.
So I'm here today with my co-host, Anne
ZOOM0025_Tr2: Hi everybody So I'm Anne
Cunningham and I am from Mother's Union
Sydney Mother's Union Sydney is is
passionate about supporting families uh
and children And as I talk to families
in my role The balance word frequently
something that is issue for people Um how
do we juggle all the things that we need
to do For me I've got three daughters
who are now adults Uh one doesn't live
home and I still find there's a bit of
a balance between all of our different
commitments in order to be able to spend
time together to be able to the things
that we think are really important
ZOOM0025_Tr3: But
ZOOM0025_Tr2: Lots of other things get
in the road So I think the for balance
stays with you regardless of how old
your children are or what your family
looks like Today we have a friend of mine
actually so Anthony and his wife Michelle
and their children attend the church uh
that I also attend And have had I would
to say the privilege of watching Anthony
and Michelle raise their four children
and just look at how this balance of
extracurricular activities Still be an
part of our church family So Anthony
welcome Thank you for spending some time
chatting with us today Maybe you start
just by sharing a little bit about your
family and what this balance activity
looks like for you Bit of an overview
Thanks Anne Thank you, Harriet.
It's great to be here today.
Uh, my background is I've been
attending the same church as
Anne for the last 25 years.
In the northern suburbs of Sydney
and yeah, we have four kids.
I have a
Wonderful wife, Michelle, who is
midwife and um does a few different jobs
So she has I think four different jobs
that she works and at the moment we have
four kids uh ranging from 13 to 17 years
old Um we had two thought we'd go for
an extra got a bonus and now we became
that that family that has four kids
ZOOM0025_Tr1: um, we
ZOOM0025_Tr2: Heavily involved in lots of
things When I was asking my daughter about
this last night she said her friends say
she's the, busiest person they know, Um
they do a lot of stuff And I asked them
do we do too much I said no we'd be bored
ZOOM0025_Tr3: Um
ZOOM0025_Tr2: There's there's so many
things to enjoy in this life Um so
it's a question of balance Sometimes
the balance goes too far we have a
lot on um and sometimes It calms down
a little bit and we start looking
for more things to do but it's it's
definitely something that I'm really to
continue working on with our, kids and,
set them up for a life um where
they do have a, balance of life and
fun um that is mixed through with
their Christian walk Um throughout
All that they do and not separated
I think is
a key for me
Speaker: As we were thinking about this
topic, I do wanna say we we're not a
family that has it all together and it is
a matter of trial and error and probably
as many errors as there are successes.
Um, but with, you know, faithful
attempting more and more and, and looking
hopefully towards, um, forgiveness
in Christ, Jesus for when we make
mistakes, um, we keep having a crack.
And I think that's a really important
thing to remember as parents, we're
all learning, so you don't often
get the opportunity to parent twice.
ZOOM0025_Tr1: Yeah well we're looking
forward to chatting So the first thing
it'd be good to talk about is what
is the value of these extracurricular
activities Why are they good things And
as we were preparing this episode um in
talking to Anthony I realized we're not
just talking about Things that we take
our kids to activities that we drop our
children off at because a lot of these
extracurriculars are actually run by
community organizations and it's not just
a service And we drop our kids off and
pick them up again And so we're actually
gonna talk about the value not just
of doing the thing the extracurricular
activity but also the value of being part
of the whole Organization that runs that
activity and perhaps even other community
organizations So let's have a think about
what is the value here Why Anthony do you
think it's really important to be involved
in these organizations and and clubs
ZOOM0025_Tr2: I think I learned a
key example here from Anne shared
this story with me years ago um
about a controversial vote that was
happening at the local school PNC
uh which the Christian community.
was not overly happy about So the
Christians all turned up in force to the
PNC meeting um ready to vote this this
motion down and to be informed that oh
no you need to be nominated at your first
meeting You can vote at the second meeting
ZOOM0025_Tr1: Oh
ZOOM0025_Tr2: Um and because they
weren't involved they couldn't just come
in and muscle in And so we need this
we're you know, we are gonna rally the
troops Um, because they had no history
and, we took that lesson to heart and
so we've tried to always influence
from the inside of any organizations
we're part of um and support those
organizations it drives me nuts When I see
ZOOM0025_Tr1: uh
ZOOM0025_Tr2: uh someone professing to
be a Christian drop their kids off um and
leave and contribute nothing when there's
other volunteers pouring their heart and
soul into these organizations to make them
work so we made a decision that we wanted
to be part of the organizations and and
support them and and share faith in that
ZOOM0025_Tr1: way
Mm-hmm So what are some examples
What sort of um clubs and
organizations have you been part of so
ZOOM0025_Tr2: So school PNC was was one
um that was more my wife She just has
been heavily involved in that Um little
athletics football clubs Um I think
this is the first year in a long time
that not coaching a winter sport Um So
our local soccer club Then volunteering
helping out with the barbecue or whatever
at the a FL club well Um And then
being there for band and other things
ZOOM0025_Tr1: Um
ZOOM0025_Tr2: um when needed So not not
taking over um but just contributing
And the ripple effect of that is enormous
I think because are there and your
children see So children see what looks
like to be engaged contributing member
of a community And they also see you
doing that as a Christian So they see
those um of the spirit being displayed
as you that community So it children but
it also builds relationships like real
relationships with the other people in
your community because you're working
alongside them shared interest whether
it's band or something happening the
school or you know the little athletics
a shared interest That that you Get
know person and then you get to take the
opportunity to who you are as a Christian
You know what it means Yeah So the impact
of being an active member is good for your
kids but also so good for you as an adult
Mm-hmm
ZOOM0025_Tr1: So some of these activities
then you've done as a whole family
like the whole family's sort of been
committed and involved say little
athletics you're probably all in the
same place at the same time is that right
ZOOM0025_Tr2: Yeah that was
a self-preservation decision
ZOOM0025_Tr1: uh where
ZOOM0025_Tr2: Friday nights our our
kids can all be in one place Uh it
makes it a lot easier Saturdays are
a lot harder They're all on different
teams in different directions and
we have to rely the community um and
you know various people giving lifts
to people and shipping kids around
ZOOM0025_Tr1: Mm-hmm Yep
ZOOM0025_Tr2: But yeah we we have
made the decision particularly
little athletics has been good for
us Um to be in one place one time
ZOOM0025_Tr1: time
ZOOM0025_Tr2: And able to focus on
on kids and part of that community
ZOOM0025_Tr1: Because then in a way
it's not detracting from family time
it's actually building into family time
It's a shared experience that you can
talk about and um encourage each other
with When you're all there together
ZOOM0025_Tr2: Mm-hmm
Yeah
ZOOM0025_Tr1: So I guess as you
participate in these organizations you're
trying to encourage your kids and model
to your kids how to do this in a Christian
way I mean what are there some sort of
um particular values or attitudes that
you find yourself coming back to with
the kids What does that look like to be a
Christian volunteer in these organizations
Um what are the some of the things
you're trying to encourage your kids in
ZOOM0025_Tr2: Yeah I think there's
definitely a as we're talking
about balance in in what we do as
a as a football coach I think I'm
quite a good coach at um getting
kids engaged getting to enjoy the
game I'm not very good at winning
ZOOM0025_Tr1: Yeah I don't know
ZOOM0025_Tr2: and don't know whether
that's you know my coaching lack but um
I I very much will rate my season on how
many kids come back next year enjoyed the
season rather than whether we won a trophy
ZOOM0025_Tr1: And
ZOOM0025_Tr2: I think having that
discussion with the kids as well around
what is important and what's not And of
course we'll play hard we'll do our very
best and we'll work hard but it's not the
be all and end all That discussion with
the kids, has been really good as they've
had different coaches through the years
that have had different areas of focus
and they give their feedback as to whether
they're enjoying the game or not and
saying well how would you change That has
been really good with the kids I think for
me one of the, other parts is to encourage
the kids to take on responsibility for
themselves to be their own advocate
ZOOM0025_Tr3: Um
ZOOM0025_Tr2: So if they have a
problem with band or got question
about little athletics they can ask the
question
ZOOM0025_Tr1: They
ZOOM0025_Tr2: to the adult and interact
with the adult and ask the question Um
ZOOM0025_Tr1: even though
you might be there there you
wanna
ZOOM0025_Tr2: fight their battles For them
It's
been
ZOOM0025_Tr3: you know
ZOOM0025_Tr2: and yeah it will help
them prep We'll help them if it's
really difficult we'll help them plan
Um we don't always succeed in that but
We
ZOOM0025_Tr1: try
to
Yeah Well that's a really great
perspective on becoming part of a
community organization as a Christian
supporting it and caring for other
people's children uh and just being there
as a a faithful volunteer What are some
other reasons why we might let our kids
do extracurricular activities There's
so many out there they're probably all
good whether it's debating or chess or
dance all sorts of things like why And
have you uh encouraged your daughters
to Get involved in some of these things
ZOOM0025_Tr2: Well partly it's sometimes
it's interest They want to do that
particular activity Sometimes it's been
something that I've encouraged them to
have a go at Um uh so encourage them
all to have a go at music Um only one of
them has stuck with that Um we come from
a sporty family so sport's been key and
so I've sort of gone with their interest
you go with their interest Again the
balance comes into So as a had to pick
things that fit our family structure uh
but that's one aspect The other think
into what you were Anthony you know how
do we do what it is we're doing So I've
been for of the the girls manager for
the netball team Um never having played
game of netball in my life Um but I
could manage team As I talked my girls as
was you know again tapping into are you
enjoying it you supporting your teammates
when lose Do you graciously when you win
Do you you know applaud the other team
coach the umpire you don't like are you
respectful Um so those sort of character
traits building that what they're
doing has been really important yeah
Yeah That growing up as an adult Over
Greg a little bit proud parent moment The
other day my uh 16-year-old son you know
they won a football match Um one of the
less valued players on the team um was a
bit of an outsider had busted collarbone
and so he was sitting with first aid The
team went off into the change rooms sang
the team song which they love singing
when they win um and Get through walked
out and he saw this other boy He said
fellas missed this song let's get around
him And I loved that Um just you know it
ZOOM0025_Tr1: was
like
ZOOM0025_Tr2: oh that's you know you can
take 10 marks and kick five goals whatever
but that was a really proud moment
ZOOM0025_Tr1: really special So it's
like that character really looking at
things that can help our children grow
in the sorts of character traits that
we value as Christians as well as the
physical fitness and getting out and um
using your body learning new skills um
ZOOM0025_Tr2: God's creation in us
The abilities that he's given us the
relationships he's given us through a
or through sport or through a music good
gifts that God has given us to enjoy
ZOOM0025_Tr1: Yeah definitely Yeah we
we are on the side of music and drama
in our family and I can see that that's
been really great like especially drama
really great for their confidence and just
finding that thing that they can do Um
and as a not so sporty family we are at a
school that's fairly sporty And so if you
don't do sport you sort of can miss out on
um those opportunities to uh connect with
different people across different year
groups or be acknowledged in the school
assemblies But as we've got involved in
music that's sort of become a substitute
I suppose that you do get to be in a group
setting and learn teamwork um through the
music And when you are on the stage you
are being acknowledged Um yeah So there's
different ways to enjoy these kinds of
growth opportunities I guess But I think
we are gonna need to look into the sport
with our third son Just his personality
He's gonna really need that sort of outlet
Well let's talk for a minute um about how
church fits into all of this because we
don't want church to just be another thing
on the list that's an opt-in opt sort
of optional extra for the week cause as
Christians we do wanna prioritize church
We want it to be one of the key priorities
of our week Um so how does that Influence
how you guys think about extracurriculars
How does church fit into it
ZOOM0025_Tr2: It's been for us a an
ongoing discussion and Anne's been part of
some of these discussions over the years
with us Um around the choices we make Uh
two of our kids really wanted to play
junior level a FL which is on a Sunday
morning and On that for a consistent
thing that's on a Sunday morning The
answer was well no And and we had to
have that discussion and explain it
to them and they they came around And
understood that it wasn't a you know
we'll dictate what you do but they
understood that that balance of attending
church for us as a family was really?
important That said a lot of the
activities athletics championships okay
most weeks athletics is on a Friday night
Championships are on a Sunday morning Um
pre-season a FL is on a Sunday morning
So there are um weeks where we miss stuff
ZOOM0025_Tr3: Um
ZOOM0025_Tr2: Band performances
are on a Sunday morning
Mm-hmm a lot of the
time Um there are weeks where we
miss things and That's that's part
of the balance Um and it's it's
ZOOM0025_Tr3: being
ZOOM0025_Tr2: aware that we've made a
commitment to team or to a group and
you've gotta show for that group well
So you can't just be like ah Yeah, I'm
ZOOM0025_Tr1: just, gonna
try Mm And so it sounds like for you
guys there's a difference between the
every week clash and the occasional clash
that you would say no to a sport that's
always played on at the same time as your
church But if it's An ongoing commitment
and it's a one-off thing then you're
flexible we are not being legalistic
about church And I know different families
will come to different uh solutions
on that And depending on how much um
choice you have maybe your church has
a night service I know many families
if the sport happens on the Sunday
morning they'll say yes to their child
but we'll commit to going to the night
service for that Season Um so if you've
got more choice then perhaps you can
solve that clash in different ways Yeah
ZOOM0025_Tr2: I think the key that said
there that We don't wanna be legalistic
um like our kids enjoy their sport their
music their their cadets they make a
commitment to to that we want them to have
same joy in going to church So we want we
want to guess instill in our children this
is a really Good part of our week You know
this good that we're doing um that we're
doing as a family And we are also making
a commitment you know don't show up are
missed Um and I think would be very much
case Um over the years at the church that
and attend we've had various numbers of
children And sometimes the Penn family
with of um very noticeable when they're
there um for all good reasons And they're
also good at people Um when they're not
there they're missed Um but but you know
that there's a good reason for them not
to there you know it certainly helps
the rest of the church to be supportive
and encouraging of them as a family
ZOOM0025_Tr1: so could you tell us a bit
more about that um bringing people with
you So you've found that being involved
in the community um has opened doors
for you to then extend the invitation
to bring those people with you to
church or youth group Is that right
ZOOM0025_Tr2: Yeah certainly Uh it's
the world of being genuine friends with
people Remember seeing talk years ago
um that was titled Friends Not for the
sake of the gospel the sake of the gospel
Um meaning we are not just friends with
people to tell them about Jesus We're
friends with people and we love them
cause they're friends and therefore
we want tell them about Jesus And it's
getting to know people on that more
personal level Um we've had a the strange
scenario where athletics is on a Friday
night and youth group is on a Friday
night So, the Penn family disappears
from youth group During the summer months
but at the end of athletics then it's
like anyone doing athletics with my
boys they're hassling them to come to
youth group you know through the winter
and come on a Friday night We've had
a few kids come along through that Um
and even I say they've stayed even
when Penn family goes back little
athletics of been invited have stayed
So you know an enormous impact that
that knowing enough invite them
genuinely and and they do They come
ZOOM0025_Tr3: Mm-hmm
ZOOM0025_Tr2: I think you know my
Friday nights um I've given the kids
space to go to youth group And I don't
ZOOM0025_Tr3: out
ZOOM0025_Tr1: dare
ZOOM0025_Tr2: My Friday
nights has always been
ZOOM0025_Tr3: um
ZOOM0025_Tr2: I will drive you back
and forth to youth group as many
times, as is needed as long as I've
got a full car Um so they need to
invite enough friends fill the car
ZOOM0025_Tr1: Wow There's
a challenge every week
ZOOM0025_Tr2: try and do that
ZOOM0025_Tr1: Yeah That's wonderful
And something I was thinking about that
I hadn't really thought about before
but some of the things that our kids
are learning in these extracurricular
activities actually will then Bless the
church So our kids are learning musical
instruments Um and it's even encouraged
me to dust off my instrument So last
Christmas we played at like the family
Christmas Eve service and we played a
few Christmas carols on our instruments
and it was like Our family plus a couple
of extras um or our son's learning the
piano And um so he's played at church
once or twice So those skills that
they're learning can actually then in
turn bless our church or whether it's
public speaking um they're learning
debating or doing drama They might be
gaining sort of confidence to maybe read
a Bible reading or um serve in the youth
group leadership team something like
that So um That's just an interesting
link It's not necessarily either or and
these are enemies Um but actually it can
integrate very well together if we are
intentional about it as you guys have
been Um so can we hear a little bit more
about the secret please Anthony I know
you have one No Um how do we stay sane
with all of this Because I'm just so
um Nervous I feel like if I say yes to
child number one that I'm committing to
four times that amount of time four times
that amount of car travel four times that
amount of money uh uniforms all of the
admin I just I just feel overwhelmed at
the thought of saying yes and just wonder
Um yeah So one decision we made to stay
sane was Same time same place all three
of you although we might talk about this
later but one of them now goes to youth
group instead cause unfortunately cadets
is on a Friday night as well Um but I'm
worried about the busyness I don't wanna
be the mom whose catchphrase is hurry
up get in the car Um I don't wanna be
feeding them dinner in the car Um I don't
Wanna be stretched financially just cause
we've said yes to too many things And
I I worry about um downtime Kids need
downtime and I worry about family time
I think having a meal together is really
important So I'm sort of the no mom
because I'm worried about all these the
extreme that it it might get to in my head
Um so yeah how do we find that balance
How do we stay sane How many is too many
Have you got any wisdom to share with us
This
ZOOM0025_Tr2: is a live topic in our
house at moment as We come to the start of
summer sport And think there's discussions
around playing Some are netball running
coaching other athletics basketball oztag
soccer And then normal athletics uh which
our kids wanna fit in the week Um and
that's a that's a live topic We haven't
resolved that yet and it's like what are
we gonna do and what are we not gonna
do cause this is looking like chaos Um
but I think the the key for us and this
is Where my wife's particularly good at
it is sitting down with him and having a
ZOOM0025_Tr3: calm
ZOOM0025_Tr2: And sensible conversation
with the kids running through the pros
and cons and allowing them to make the
decisions And you know this scenario
one of our boys is really good friends
with a neighbor across the road and.
he loves spending at least
an afternoon a week just
ZOOM0025_Tr3: I know
ZOOM0025_Tr2: hitting
each other with sticks or
ZOOM0025_Tr1: something
ZOOM0025_Tr2: um, where the other other
one is Probably more passionate about
team sports And so having that discussion
around you know, you happy to not be
in a team because you wanna spend time
with the neighbor and and vice versa And
allowing them to understand the I guess
the flow on effects of every decision
of you know if you choose to do this
then this means this other person can't
do that Um I think the other one I was
talking to Michelle about my wife um
There will be times when one kid needs
to look like a favorite Not that they are
favorite but they just need more your time
as a parent and being honest with your
kids um as a group That they're a team
ZOOM0025_Tr1: they're
ZOOM0025_Tr2: of themselves And sometimes
one of the team needs more more help
and support or more time driving I've
got one kid on L plates that's a lot
of hours and they need a lot of time
ZOOM0025_Tr1: Mm Um
ZOOM0025_Tr2: And being really clear
that we are doing our best to be balanced
ZOOM0025_Tr3: Um
ZOOM0025_Tr2: but does
change How much time some get
ZOOM0025_Tr1: for a little while
ZOOM0025_Tr2: I think that's really
helpful Um it it's almost like a round
table discussion isn't it Where you are
putting out the factors consider you know
is what week looks like These are the we
this what we used to have do This is what
we have to do a week things that you want
to do are things that are good for us to
do So we include like downtime Uh we were
really blessed that we could walk to and
school which eats into some of your but
it was a great time walking to and from
school and we'd often have a bunch of
other kids walking with us So you know
it was just this really fun moment and
we liked to have downtime where you could
just go and get a a milkshake or you could
to the park or you could Just do nothing
you know or invite friends over And so
for me was helping my girls understand
there's bunch of stuff here that we want
to do Let's all of it and work out what
what are we gonna prioritize here And
there always sacrifices I think that's
the point to understand this you have
to weigh things up work what direction
But we flexibility we said we'll try it
ZOOM0025_Tr1: it
ZOOM0025_Tr2: try it for a term and
if it doesn't work in our timeframe
puts too much stress on us as a
family or us financially then actually
we'll call it say no And sometimes
we did that we gave it a try and
yeah
And often it just wasn't gonna fit
ZOOM0025_Tr1: Yeah We might talk
more about that actually So sometimes
we might try something or start on
a path with a sport or an activity
It could be dance I know a lot of
families do a lot of dance Um but
sometimes we're gonna have to sort of
ZOOM0025_Tr2: of
ZOOM0025_Tr1: Stop their progress on that
track if it's not working if it's too
much for us or if there's a persistent
Sunday clash Um I remember you saying
Anne that you were reluctant to get
involved in soccer because you knew that
once it hit a certain level if your child
was good at The soccer for the women's
it was always gonna be on a Sunday So
how do we talk about that with our kids
when they might be really gifted at it
They could do 10 hours of gymnastics a
week Uh cause they're actually really
good at it Um and they're being invited
to How do we have that conversation
about we are gonna have to say no on
this one Like I imagine you've had to
do that Anthony you got any points that
you would raise with your children or
frame the discussion around saying no I
think it's
ZOOM0025_Tr2: that that same and say
the round table conversation where you
explain it's not just this impact on a
Sunday morning it's also what are the
other impacts So for me uh it would've
been rep level football for one of my boys
He would he would love to try He's never
even tried out I dunno whether he'd make
the team but we looked at that and that
there was three nights a week training uh
which was half an hour away plus Sunday
mornings plus travel you know around the
state not just, around the city but around
the state to um to be playing that often
on a Sunday Um and we just mapped that
out and He could see it and you could
see he wanted to do Like we can't fit
this in This means that your siblings
are getting a lift to their sport every
week
Um your siblings are getting
a lift to church every week if
they're going without us like it
ZOOM0025_Tr1: you
ZOOM0025_Tr2: know and that
or you are getting a lift with
someone and that think that It was
ZOOM0025_Tr1: discussion
Mm-hmm And if you've had those prior
discussions as you mentioned earlier about
what is the sport about it's not just
about getting to the top or succeeding
or being the best or winning um I think
they would have a more balanced view to
be able to say no But if they're a family
that the only goal has been to succeed and
to win then of course they're not gonna
be happy about stopping that progression
But if you've given that really balanced
view of what are we doing this for in the
first place then you've got more ground
to actually keep the balance I think
ZOOM0025_Tr2: we used to Always have a
conversation as well about what's going
to most honor God in this and and that
heaven focus of actually here to enjoy
life you know God's put us here to enjoy
life and there's so much to enjoy but
we're here to serve him here to honor him
in what we do And so I used sort rather
you girls learn how to at learning a
musical instrument cause you learn how
to persist You learn you learn how to be
faithful learn how to be in sporting team
use physical abilities god's given you but
learn sportsmanship and encouragement and
respect and you know um following rules
because that's important And boundaries
that's what you need through your life
and those things you're going take you
But Being in the first you know a grade
netball or playing netball at you hours
a week that's actually not to give you
what ultimately is gonna glorify God Not
saying those things are wrong but was
more at long-term character And also the
fact that what's God want us here to do
ZOOM0025_Tr1: And you'll
learn that at any level
ZOOM0025_Tr2: at level You can learn
that any activity Um so think that's
also where the balance came in for us
Mm-hmm
one way one thing where you see
um is there's quite a lot families
where they'll invest everything into
one child that is you know perhaps
hoping to be an Olympian or Or
ZOOM0025_Tr3: you know
ZOOM0025_Tr2: at a world level in a
particular sport and throw everything
into that Um partially probably cause I
don't think any of our kids are at that
level Um but also um because we we didn't
want to be so focused we're not that
in intense about things Um we've always
adapted to take on multiple things learn
lots of different skills in life I I
actually heard I didn't know this heard
it recently the the phrase jack of all
trades master of none um has a second half
Oh
Um which is is often
better than a master of one
um
I didn't know that Someone told me that
recently and I said I took that to heart
I'm like that's a really great saying
We want our kids to be well-rounded Um
you know you can you can potentially
play football every day and be amazing
and ruin your knees by the time.
you're 35 Um, and you know that's
ZOOM0025_Tr3: it
ZOOM0025_Tr2: that's not the path we
wanted for our kids Uh we wanted a
balance of sport and physical activity
Um music and drama and arts uh as well
as sciences and different skills Um so
that they're well-rounded individuals
ZOOM0025_Tr1: Mm-hmm
ZOOM0025_Tr2: different people
have different priorities
That's what we've chosen
Yep
Um and we think that's God's path for
us But other people God may call you
to be an a hundred meter sprinter uh
and share the gospel that way well
ZOOM0025_Tr1: Mm-hmm
ZOOM0025_Tr2: that's the key isn't it How
what are we doing in the activities uh
as Christians you know So Yeah absolutely
That might be a hundred meter sprinter
ZOOM0025_Tr1: And are your
siblings still okay though
ZOOM0025_Tr2: Yes
ZOOM0025_Tr1: How how does it affect
the rest of the family Yeah yeah
ZOOM0025_Tr2: No
ZOOM0025_Tr1: and something just to um
keep in mind as well is that we don't
actually always have to pay for all of
these things So if we want our children
to be well-rounded and we are musical
We can teach them music We can do music
as a family uh for example Or if we
are a great swimmer or great at soccer
or whatever we can go down to the oval
as a family and practice soccer Um so
I think you know uh If people have a
tight budget or are worried about family
time you can start thinking about ways
to integrate this all together that
uh your children don't have to miss
out if you can't afford the external
activity or um all of these things we're
wanting our children to learn There are
lots of different ways to learn them
ZOOM0025_Tr2: them
can take a soccer ball down to
a park with a bunch of friends
and kick the soccer ball
Yeah
of my favorite activities
yeah So can get you know physical You
you know encourage aspects of working
together in all sorts things Yeah
Just having fun in God's good creation
ZOOM0025_Tr1: definitely But well-rounded
is something good to aim for for the
adults as well as the children I dunno
if anyone watched parental guidance but
it is um it's not quite a reality TV show
but with Dr Justin Olson and one of the
um things that I picked up on was when
they went to uh see What place fitness
and physical health had in the family
They didn't test the children's fitness
They tested the adults fitness cause
apparently that's the number one predictor
of children's uh sort of physical fitness
is that the parents fitness So there you
go There's another thing throw into the
balance is our own need for and exercise
and and balance Well let's just talk
briefly about another sort of tricky
situation Say our child has committed
to an activity and then they come home
one one day and say I'm quitting I don't
wanna do that anymore Um ours I mean our
situation wasn't quite Phrased like that
but uh one of our sons as we knew would
happen cause cadets as I said is on a
Friday night We knew that the clash with
youth group would happen eventually Our
own church is um quite small and not many
young people so we don't have a youth
group of our own But there are lots of
local youth groups that a lot of the
Christian kids go to And so our son our
eldest did come home and say I am thinking
about quitting cadets to go to youth group
And we've always said We will support that
decision if that's your decision because
we think youth group's a good thing
as well We definitely value everything
they're learning at cadets Um and
ZOOM0025_Tr2: yeah
ZOOM0025_Tr1: Really happy with the
things they've learned there They
learn leadership For us it's an all-boy
environment which is unique We don't often
have an environment where there's just a
group of boys together um and they learn
all sorts of interesting educational
things It's a really good balance between
physical activity um and education and
other things that they learn Um but We
sort of had to talk it through with him
Well how do you quit Well and so like you
we said well you are gonna need to talk
to the leader of cadets You're gonna need
to make time to chat with him about when
you're gonna finish up and make a date
Like don't just quit today I'm not gonna
let you just quit today You can uh pick
an important occasion for cadets whether
it's Anzac Day or whether it's the end of
year parade and don't ditch them Before
that commitment Let's see that out And
you can perform your role at one of these
events and go out then um and not just
quit to quit to sit at home and play the
Xbox or something but he was Wanting to
do youth group which we felt was a really
good thing as well So that's some of the
things we encourage him to do Don't quit
straight away and you need to talk to the
leader and um make an exit strategy that's
honoring to your commitment I suppose Um
what about you Anthony Have you had to
have that Um I want a quick conversation
ZOOM0025_Tr2: Yeah Very very similar
approach Um you I'm finished with band Um
I don't wanna do it anymore Okay well you
will get past the whatever performance
is coming up you're gonna tell your
teacher that you're leaving after that
performance and can you go But until then
you will try your hardest And it's you
know that's setting up for work life You
know as as I've people resign at work one
of the bits feedback I give is the next
four weeks after you resign if you're
gonna work out your notice period Um is
a reflection of your character You know
you continue to work or you can f around
and I can't control that thing If we can
teach that into our kids Makes them, good
ZOOM0025_Tr1: the
character Character again
ZOOM0025_Tr2: and I think even um made
me reflect back on a situation with one
of my daughters There was um netball
can be quite a complicated sport to be
placed into a grade and it's all got
to do with numbers and if played before
that impacts what grade you're put into
And so she was put into a team for one
season that was well below the level at
she was devastated Um and you know I was
thinking is she gonna wanna quit here
had a a good conversation about fact that
she'd signed up she'd made a commitment
uh she was placed in this team so had
commitment to she played in this team
um and that she needed to honor That
commitment in terms how she did faithful
turn up be encouraging you know support
the coach support the other players
be cause of these players never played
before Um and that was a hard season
but she grew so in her character From
that experience so that you know that's
another aspect of when things are tough
I mean learning a musical instrument um
is tough on everybody when first learning
it
ZOOM0025_Tr3: It's tough
ZOOM0025_Tr1: the violin No
ZOOM0025_Tr2: no saxophone
saxophone too Lemme
see We have
ZOOM0025_Tr1: we have a saxophone
ZOOM0025_Tr2: I've done that
ZOOM0025_Tr1: Trumpet saxophone piano
ZOOM0025_Tr2: but but even that learning
how to persist so them skills how to
break down to this level move on to
the next level you know how to cope
with disappointment of that comes into
perseverance which again leads into
character as you said And that's a godly
attribute isn't it That we learn how to
ZOOM0025_Tr1: Yeah Well we're actually
gonna wrap up our conversation very soon
Um but to finish I wanted to talk about
something that again um I've heard from
Anthony in recent times about Just the the
general idea of trying to connect in our
community trying to build relationships
genuine friendships with the people that
we live around or cross paths with at
school or um our neighbors and so on
Um I thought let's just zoom out a bit
not just Extracurriculars but community
connection opportunities What are some
things that uh have worked uh I know
Anthony you've talked about when you
first moved into your home or your street
you sort of had a bit of a philosophy
there Do you wanna tell us about that
Um when you first moved into your house
ZOOM0025_Tr2: when
we when we looked at our house we are
in um it was beyond our price range and
we said God would really like this house
Um
Then he conveniently arranged for the
price to be dropped into our price
range Um but we said it would be a
house that was open Uh so we chose
ZOOM0025_Tr1: a
ZOOM0025_Tr3: uh
ZOOM0025_Tr2: a house with no front fence
ZOOM0025_Tr3: Um
ZOOM0025_Tr2: we lawn where people can see
what's going on Um And we actually have
we have quite large windows at the front
where it's almost like it's connected to
the street and we we want kids coming in
and out We want families coming in and out
I
think a big part for us was to build
relationships with whole families Um so if
our kids were hanging out with kids we'd
try with the parents and but the credit
for this is to go to my wife who spent a
lot more time and effort and is far better
at this than me building relationships
so that it's a whole of family connection
and now when when our kids are at youth
group we can hang out with parents Um and
and build relationships that way As well
ZOOM0025_Tr1: Tell us about Park Day
ZOOM0025_Tr2: So this was uh an initiative
that my wife ran when our kids were in
primary school and now been handed on to
someone else um where just every afternoon
uh a box of cups and a thermos couple
of thermos full of hot water um would
be taken to the park near our school And
um anyone that wanted to join would join
Mm
ZOOM0025_Tr1: And
ZOOM0025_Tr2: The Christians in our
community none of them were from
our church um but we knew them um
cotton Dawn that this was an amazing
way to interact with the community
And we'd have I dunno as many as 50
ZOOM0025_Tr1: Yeah Was that a
particular day of the week And you'd say
that every every Wednesday
Wednesdays Park Day
Wednesday Park Day
ZOOM0025_Tr2: and the kids knew and
they'd go and just muck around at
the park people would bring a you
know packet of biscuits to share but
it built such amazing relationship
ZOOM0025_Tr1: Mm
ZOOM0025_Tr2: Across all.
parts of the community Sometimes
you'd have grandparents picking up
if the kids were at work you'd have
ZOOM0025_Tr3: kids
ZOOM0025_Tr2: you know or someone
would say I'm stuck at work
my kids are coming Park Day
ZOOM0025_Tr1: Um
ZOOM0025_Tr2: And and so it just
built a lot community relationships
and was an amazing gospel to
opportunity to sit And share the gospel
ZOOM0025_Tr1: yeah that's
wonderful So simple
ZOOM0025_Tr2: idea of merging cultures
isn't it You know something a shared
activity and having Christians
non-Christians doing it together
building those relationships which
gives you the opportunity to talk
about Jesus as you get to know
ZOOM0025_Tr1: Is it an amazing park
ZOOM0025_Tr2: No
it's a
ZOOM0025_Tr1: rubbish
park I mean,
ZOOM0025_Tr2: yeah but give kids
ZOOM0025_Tr1: time
ZOOM0025_Tr2: I think the it sounds
like we have a very busy life but we
do actually try and have conscious time
for kids to be bored and to spend time.
at park With no directed play And
they have to amuse themselves and
And there's not much this park either
Like it's a pretty bland park really
Yeah,
Yeah
ZOOM0025_Tr1: So they get that wonderful
time to do imaginative nature Play sticks
love sticks Well Girls might love sticks
too but my boys love sticks Yep Yeah
That's wonderful So that's a really simple
idea If your children are not yet old
enough for any extracurricular community
organization run activities just go to the
park once a week and whoever Yeah I mean
We have our front yard with no fence as
well and we live in a cul-de-sac which is
really great So and I think COVID really
helped our our neighborly connections
Hugely So the kids got to know each other
in the street And so in recent times we've
bought a ping pong table in our garage We
just lift up the garage door and the ping
pong table's there or a little portable
badminton set We got it from Rebel or
somewhere and it all packs into a box and
it's really handy So now on the weekends
we often just have those things out on
our lawn and another family has the So
Nets and another family has a trampoline
out the front and so the kids can sort of
Go between all the houses and yeah it's
a wonderful um you know sometimes it's
one parent watching them other times that
all the moms are standing around having
a cup of tea while they watch the kids
And it's really uh special and wonderful
to feel connected into the community uh
where you live and the neighborhood Um
in the holidays we had a campfire Another
simple thing but we chose some of our kids
would prefer to have it in our backyard
where it's just our family time Um and
I hope we might do that for their sake
another time But this time we encourage
them let's have it in the front yard And
we just told the other families that have
kids in the street Just we're gonna have
a campfire four till six And I didn't
really plan any particular food or drink
I did buy marshmallows and digestive
biscuits to make s'mores but that's all
But people turned up with pizza and sushi
and drinks and I mean tell us about um
your approach to hospitality because I
think Anthony People can think oh open
house I've gotta keep it clean all the
time And Oh that would be so stressful Um
trying to entertain and be hospitable I
mean yeah What are your thoughts on that
ZOOM0025_Tr2: we try and be Not to
pretend like, yes, if we know people
are coming over, the kids are told we
are cleaning up the house, but, um, we
want people coming over all the time.
I think growing up for me, uh, my
mom had plate on the wall that said,
come in, sit down, relax, converse.
Our house doesn't always look like this.
Sometimes it's even worse.
Um, and that was the attitude, like
if our house is chaos, our house is
chaos and people can be part of that.
There's football boots and stinky
socks, 'cause the kids have come in on
a Saturday and chucked their clothes
everywhere and someone drops in.
So be it.
That's, that's real life.
And I think learned a lesson,
uh, a number of years ago.
From a locum minister who said at
his previous church, no one would do
hospitality because one family was amazing
at and they had a glamorous Sunday lunch
every week with all beautiful China and
no one else was brave enough to, um, host.
So out attitude is is there will be
50 sausages in fridge and a couple
of loaves bread, and if people
come over they can have snags and.
you know There'll there'll be other
stuff, but often we find if people
come over, we end up with more
food than we started with anyway.
Because all come and share.
Yeah
ZOOM0025_Tr1: Yeah.
Don't be afraid to just
open up your house.
Yeah, no,
ZOOM0025_Tr2: that are
Hmm
ZOOM0025_Tr1: that's true.
Yeah.
Well, that's just a really wonderful
picture, I think for us to finish up
on, that we're not just talking about
something we drop our kids off at.
We're actually talking about ways that we
can be genuinely involved in our community
and community organizations, sports
clubs, dance clubs, all sorts of things.
So this has been a really
enriching conversation.
So thank you to you both.
Thank you Anthony, for coming and sharing
all your secret wisdom that you've
gained, you and your wife, Michelle, over
years, um, of trial and error and being
intentional and, uh, trying to do all
these things in a Christian way without,
overdoing it.
So we hope and pray that this has been
really helpful for everybody listening,
and we hope that you'll join us next
time for another real conversation
across the generations exploring
God's wisdom for modern families.
Speaker 4: Timeless Parenting is
produced by YouthWorks in Sydney.
Theme music by Ali McGrath, produced
by Ali McGrath and Gerard Masters.
YouthWorks mission is to see an
effective youth and children's
ministry in every church.
For more information go to youthworks.
net