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A Lot of Words is a conversational deep-dive podcast hosted by Pastor Brett Schoeneck and Pastor Matt Smith, created for listeners who want biblical clarity applied to real-life questions. Each episode pulls apart the questions people actually ask—not the ones theologians wish people were asking.
From tough topics like anxiety, AI, politics, prayer, sexuality, and suffering to practical questions about how to read the Bible, how to think Christianly in a digital world, and how to follow Jesus in a noisy culture, Brett and Matt aim to give listeners honest, pastoral, and intellectually serious answers.
The show blends theology, humor, cultural analysis, and pastoral insight—inviting you into a conversation that is purposeful, biblical, and surprisingly entertaining. If you’ve ever wanted a podcast where you can actually get your questions answered, welcome to A Lot of Words.
Are we conjuring the demons?
Me?
Um, can a Christian do yoga?
We had a couple try to destroy
our church because of this answer.
And what's the difference between
meditation and meditating on scripture?
Yeah.
Okay.
Here, lemme say this.
If someone says, I'm gonna go
to yoga and go meditate, I do
think I have a problem with that.
You need the Lord so much.
And so I used to listen to like,
Yo-Yo Ma. How do you counsel people
who deal with mental illness?
Well, I'll say two things.
I think that drugs are overprescribed.
If we say people are merely.
Spiritual beings and there's
no, they're not physical at all.
That's also kind of gnostic.
Welcome back to the a
lot of Words podcast.
I'm Brett Chak.
This is Matt Smith.
I'm a pastor at Braas Road Church.
You should come out to
our church at some point.
It's braas.com.
Oh my goodness.
Oh, what are we doing?
I'd to see you we're answering
the questions people actually ask.
Yeah, we're at a new time.
11:00 AM Which sounds
super late 'cause it is.
But, uh, for, for my brain,
um, this is a little bit early.
To, I got over pot, got sleep last night.
I'm doing great.
Yeah, you're on some new
crazy sleep app or something.
What are you doing?
I decided that for one week I'm
gonna try to get as close to eight
hours of sleep a night as I can.
How do you, how do you just
tell your body to do that?
I just do, I can always go
to sleep whenever I want.
I, I feel like everyone can do that.
That's actually one of my biggest things.
I'm gonna see right now what it says.
How much sleep did I get last night?
No one cares about this.
God forgive me.
I got, let's see, last night,
seven hours and 41 minutes.
I just that it's crazy.
And so that's a lot of sleep for me.
Um, I'm gonna see what happens with eight,
like seven days of eight hours of sleep.
I just never commit to it.
It's, I'm bored of sleep.
That's the, I, so I, I, I
basically don't go to sleep at
night until I literally pass out.
But is it like a mentalism trick?
How, how are you just like,
stay asleep for eight hours?
Oh, I just do, I don't, I don't
know what Or, or are you getting
up at Don't normal people, are you?
No.
Are you getting up and
you're like, hello, body?
You will go for eight hours today?
Yeah.
How are you?
Are I set an alarm in the morning?
Is that what you mean?
Like No, I mean like, are
you getting up at six?
You're like, okay, I gotta get two
more and then go back to sleep, or
are you just No, you're just out cold.
I wake up like whatever time
I'm supposed to wake up, I set
an alarm and I just get up.
What?
But yeah, I don't think,
uh, I'm a robot, Brett.
I don't focus on how my, I feel.
So much.
I just do things so well, let
me now that, yeah, that's good.
We're warmed up now.
Let's go.
We, no, now we're warmed up.
Now we're getting into it.
Uh, we added more swag.
I have this hat here.
Well, what's the, what are we
talking about today, Larry?
I'm curious Mug book, before we
get to it, I have a question.
I have a question.
You have a question for the people?
Yeah.
So I'm gonna do, we talked about the
mere membership book in the last episode.
Mm-hmm.
And, um, I'm working on the Genesis
commentary and also subsequently,
so now I have a full day that I'm
using for writing, which has been.
Great.
And since we have this new like publishing
company, I'm like motivated to write.
Mm-hmm.
And I have all this content that I've
been writing over the years and so I'm
teaching our Theo class Tuesday nights.
I always invited out, um, at TRO
church and we just started, the new
class is gonna be on the attributes
of God and so I was writing up my.
I always write a paper for it and I
figured, man, this is good material.
I should just write it a little bit more
fully so that when I'm done, I can turn
this into a book on the attributes of God.
And so the question then is,
what's the title gonna be?
Because, so there's two tracks.
One is my commentaries, so
I've got Genesis, so what?
And then it'll be Exodus.
So what you know going on.
And then I'm gonna alternate
that with the mirror.
Commentaries Mere membership.
Mere Cats.
Cats.
Mere Ka will be one of them.
No, um, mere, mere Christianity.
Uh, no.
But, um, but the idea is the mere series
will be, you know, basically like looking
at like a hundred page books on a subject.
And so the next one I wanna do is on the
attributes of God, which are awesome.
And so I'm thinking of the
titles and they're all great.
Uh, but let's ask the people.
In the comments to tell us what they like.
So I like one Mere God,
which is ironically amazing
title if you think about it.
Yeah.
Simplicity of mere attributes, but I
don't know if anyone would pick that up.
Yeah.
Mere majesty.
Um, mere.
Well just tell us what you think the
next book about attributes should be
titled, but it has to start with mirror.
Yeah.
And it needs to be appropriate.
Me God grew.
I like mere God 'cause
of the of simplicity.
But you've, when I first
told it, you, so I did.
And then I was like, is it was?
Isn't it a see how and then say
in the comments, if you think
you'd actually read that, but.
Also, if you've read me membership.
So I guess that's, but that's
what I'm excited about.
So like, kind of, now that we
are doing all this, I'm excited
to write and I don't even care.
Like I'm not trying to be
some bestselling author.
I just feel like I wanna, I've been
studying and preaching and teaching in a.
Deep way for, you know, 20 years.
I wanna write it all down somehow before
I die, I guess is the point I want.
And so this little thing
has motivated me to do that.
So anyways, mere, mere membership
is a bit of a corrective.
That was more of the, the style of
it, though you were very gracious in
it about the, the current, um, ways
that you can be part of a church.
But would this be ex like just
bringing your nuance to kind of what?
No, it's gonna be pink and
tozer have already put forth.
Yeah.
So if you think about, uh, pink
is like, what, like the 1920s?
Yeah.
So he writes old school.
First of all, it's the best.
Um, yeah, but it's actually,
it's actually hard.
But then secondly, I think that I do a
lot of polemics, like Francis Schafer,
if you know everyone, Francis Schafer
has been a big influence in my life.
Um, and so his sort of.
Methodology, which is the, so what
aspect of these things, in other
words, the first chapter, for
example, is on, um, the solitariness.
Of this, of God, like the, the aloneness
of God, the fact that he's unique.
Um, why is that significant?
Why does it even matter?
And it's, it's profound because, for
example, did God need to create, A lot
of people tell the story of the gospel
and somehow that God's like, oh, he
made you so he can have a relationship.
But what they're implying in that
way is that God was somehow lonely.
Yeah.
Which is really ironic because it, it
lessens God, it makes him needy, but
then secondly it loses what's so Mag,
you know, magnificent about the gospel
in the first place, which is God was.
Existent already outside of space and
time and perfect relationship with
himself and, and, and the happy land
of the Trinity is one, one author
calls it the fact that he creates and
invites us into relationship with him.
He's not inviting us into
relationship that he has 'cause
he needs something from us.
He's reli, you know, inviting
us into something that's full a
fullness already, which is great.
Um, you know, so.
Anyways, it's an exciting thing.
I'm excited about the project, but
let us know in the comments if you
would read it and what title you like,
but I'm, I'm leaning on mere God.
I dunno why that makes it giggle though.
But anyways, that's me.
No, I'm excited.
I'm glad that you're choosing
that for the next one.
It the attributes of.
Of anything, even Pink's book this,
I'm in the Psalms all the time and it
reminds me so much of just the Psalms
'cause it's so much of the Psalms are
just the attributes of God on display.
And the attributes are scary
because when you study God, he's
the scariest subject to study.
Because if you look at the
cross, for example, you can see.
You see God's infinite wrath
on display and his infinite
love and grace on display.
And neither it neither
mitigates the other.
In other words, his wrath
doesn't lessen his love.
His love doesn't lessen his wrath.
So if you look at the cross this
way, we try to get the whole
picture, but if I wanna study.
Theology, I'm gonna look at an
attribute, let's say the wrath of God.
And I look this direction
and it goes on forever.
And the danger is, as I'm looking
at that, I know that it also goes
on forever, the other direction, but
I can't see both at the same time.
I can get a small glimpse and so.
When you study theology, it's like
taking an, uh, you know, an engine apart.
It's really exciting.
You can study a carburetor, you
know, the whatever you're looking
at, but you can't drive the car.
You have to put it back in the engine.
So theology is a scary subject
that requires, uh, really building
good handrails and stuff, but
it's the most rewarding subject
because we're supposed to know God.
And so he invites us to know him,
and he's revealed himself this way.
So anyways, that's the next project.
Amen.
Get a title, start writing.
Stopping.
So lazy.
Yeah, I know.
For real.
Why isn't it done yet?
I know.
Can't you just put it
in the Chachi PT robot?
Oh gosh.
Well, welcome back to a
lot of words, podcast.
Excited you're here.
We are answering the
questions people actually ask.
And Matt, today we are talking about
meditation, mindfulness, and yoga.
Are we conjuring the demons?
Me?
I'm just kidding.
I added that metal meditation.
But let me just, me, me,
meditation metal and Yoda.
Yes.
Meditation, mindfulness, heavy
metal, and Yoda and yoga.
Um, I had to redo that intro and get it.
It was bothering me so much.
Okay.
It'll still just stay in the flow.
Yes.
But I just, it had to happen.
It was sitting in the back of my mind.
Meditation, mindfulness, and yoga.
Not Yoda.
Yeah.
So I'll, I'll draw, I'll start, start
asking Michelle, I'll draw that.
Um, a question that you're gonna
unpack this for probably five minutes.
There's a lot here, but I'll just start
with this question and just let you cook.
Um, can a Christian do yoga?
If they go there and
consider it only stretching.
Hmm.
All right, so we had a couple try to
destroy our church because of this
answer, and so I'm gonna stick to it
though because, you know, Paul talks
about this and, and freedom in Christ.
So is it, there's a. We need to
understand that people have different,
um, understandings about yoga and
so, and the intentionality matters.
In other words, when someone says that
the stretches are Kundalini spirit
stretches and you know, they go on into
all the years praying to another, I'm
like, that's not necessarily true when
most yoga classes in the United States,
for example, are secularized yoga.
They're just stretching
that are trying to seem.
Cool, because they add a
mystical element to it.
And that's why even like the yoga
place, core power yoga type stuff,
uh, they've lamented the fact
that western yoga has sort of, you
know, made it secular essentially.
So they want to kind of reinvigorate
it with more of the religious aspects.
But anyways, I think that
you have to be careful.
I think when Paul talks about eating
meat sacrifice to idols, it's a great
analogy because he says if you go to
someone's house and they don't tell you
whe where they got the meat, don't ask.
You know, in other words, you can eat the
food that's, but once they say that it's
spiritual, that that's what you're doing,
well then you do have to, for the sake of
their conscience even, um, not partake.
So I think the best answer I'd say
it is if you're gonna a yoga class,
you like the stretching, you know, I
personally am not excited about that.
I think you could just do stretching.
But, um, in fact, they ought to just
have a class called American Stretching.
There's a, I love that idea.
You know what?
That's a. Yeah, I mean, okay, so
my jujitsu place is, um, American
juujitsu, which is sort of a big thumb
in the nose to Brazilian jujitsu.
I just think it's funny, but yeah.
Um, American stretching
is what I'm advocating.
But anyways, let's say someone
goes to it and they're just a
person, they don't mean to do it.
They're into the stretching, they're
into like the wellness aspect.
There's always, they're
always budding up against.
The spiritual thing.
Um, I think you have to be careful because
they, they as if they're a Christian,
they're gonna serve their own master.
They have their own convictions.
Um, that's important.
But I do think that once someone
starts talking about, this is a
prayer, this is a, and they start doing
that, I think that at that point the
Christian needs say, okay, time out.
That's not what I'm gonna do.
I need to separate myself, uh, from that.
So I think that there's an element of.
Being careful.
And the meat sacrifice idols analogy
is so important because today no one
thinks about that because it's not a
relevant category nobody goes to mm-hmm.
Outback Steakhouse and is like,
was this sacrificed idols?
It's not even a real category,
but back at the time, Paul's
writing it was a real category.
And what these, this, this
idea was, you know, um.
It was a, a, a prevalent question.
I think yoga's a great
analogy for that today.
So same idea.
I think if it's just like a stretching
class, if you know a Christian that's
going to a yoga class, now on the flip
side, you can be super convicted and
say, I don't think Christians should go.
I don't want to go.
As for me and my house,
we're not gonna go.
Amen.
You're welcome to do that, but you need
to be able to sit at church with somebody
else that carries their yoga mat to go
to class that's casual and think the
best about them without putting your
concern on them, I guess is the point.
So, um, but I do think that there's
a, a line, like if you're the casual
kind of going the casual yoga class
and they start doing the prayer
meditation stuff, you need to like.
Separate yourself at that point.
I, I believe.
Um, but again, if you're just making
it wellness and so on and so forth,
I think it's probably, you know,
you just, you wanna be careful.
You just never wanna go
further than scripture does.
And I think what Paul's says,
you know, all things are lawful,
but not all things are edifying.
And so what he, he's getting to is
sort of, first of all, a quote from
them saying all things are lawful.
His point is not all
things are beneficial.
Well, stretching is beneficial and
it does, it is good for you to wake
up and stretch or wake up and work
out, or I finally got a garage gym.
It was like so great to
get in there and do it.
And you know, even when you do it, people
might even play into the meditative
aspects of running in the morning.
I mean, we love to play into
that and there's truth to it.
Um, most people, that's what they want.
Few people are really into like, oh
yeah, I want to pray to the spirits.
Like, gimme a, if that's you,
okay, that's a problem, you know?
So, um.
Now, let's say you're going to a place
and you haven't noticed, and I think
this happens in our faith, you're,
you be, you've been doing all these
yoga classes, you become a Christian.
All of a sudden you're aware of the fact
that you hadn't been paying attention,
and they are saying, Hey, now let's
take a moment and do the ohms and.
And you're, and you're like, okay, now
I'm starting to feel convicted where
I didn't previously feel convicted.
I think that's a great, you know, don't
sin against your conscience at that point.
So there is an element of us
learning how to have liberty and have
responsibility and love for the Lord.
And it's not about how much we're
allowed to do, it's like what's good
for us and our spirit and what's, what
distinguishes us from kind of like.
You know, the world and
demonic sort of stuff.
So that's my nuanced answer,
I guess, if that makes sense.
It does, yeah.
If you knew what, what do you think
would be a great response if you see
someone in the community line and
then they're, you know, have a yoga
shirt on that says like, I love yoga,
and you know, they go all the time.
Would that be something where're
like, Hey, I might need to like
sit, talk to them and see what's
going on, or you're just like, ah,
just let the Lord figure it out.
I wouldn't, yeah.
Like what?
There's a proverb that says.
You know, and we gotta
balance this, right?
'cause it says we are our
brother's keeper, but there's
also a proverb that says, don't
grab a passing dog by the ears.
Mm-hmm.
The idea is like, okay, so one,
one example is if I know somebody
and I'm, and, and they, when I meet
a Christian, let's just say, this
is a great, great rule of thumb.
You can take it or leave it.
I think that people.
There's a difference between caring
for people and being a busy body.
Hmm.
And being into everyone's
business all the time.
The assumption that people are great
is a great working assumption in the
church until they prove otherwise.
So if I meet someone and they're a
Christian and they show up at church
and they've been in a Christian for a
while, I'm not like interrogating them,
trying to find out where they're wrong.
I think that sometimes people do that
and they're like, well, I'm discerning.
I'm like.
They'll people reveal
themselves really quick.
I want to think the best about something.
That's why when I'm with someone and we're
hanging out and all of a sudden they say.
You know, how are you, how's your day?
And they're like, it's
blessed, and I'm prospering.
And I'm like, oh, you're starting
to get a little itch that
there's something a little funny.
They start using some funny language.
You're like, ah, and,
and you don't push it.
You just want to think the
best as long as possible.
Now obviously cults and there's doctrinal
things, but I think in general we want
to have a charitable mind towards people.
I think some of the yoga shirt, if
they, if there's really a problem, okay.
You'll see.
Now again, people have real convictions.
They're like yoga pants.
Okay.
It is like, that's the devil.
I mean like, all right,
I get, you're right.
We live in Southern California.
I get it.
Um, if I was a girl, I'd probably
wanna wear yoga pants too.
Just wear a sweater that covers your butt.
Maybe.
I don't know.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, there's like basic things like
we just, there's a a category of focus
that can be negative and I think that
there are imperatives in scripture,
but most of them are motivated
by the indicatives of scripture.
The idea that God is, this is what the
gospel means, is what it means to do this.
That shouldn't motivate how
we dress, how we act, um,
rather than a rule or a, a law.
Because once we put one in place
and say skirts can be this length.
Then everyone's gonna push the
skirt right up to the edge, and
that's what legalism becomes.
And, and so, you know, you don't
want, you do wanna have standards.
You wanna help people understand
how they ought to live.
And if that yoga person is also
talking about ohms all the time
and start saying stuff, yeah,
then maybe you'd say something.
Um, but.
You know, I know a few people
that are really serious Christians
that are into the yoga, and
they, they're genuinely people.
I like, they don't, they're
not praying to demons.
Um, I remember when martial arts, people
would always say, well, how can you, in
martial arts, it's all, it's like pagan.
And I'm like the, the, for example,
the one couple I mentioned that
tried to destroy our church,
that, because I mentioned the
yoga as an example in a sermon.
Uh, also through Halloween parties.
And so I just found that ironic.
Mm-hmm.
Um, people have different things that
we, we all have different things.
We're.
Into and that we're convicted by.
And in the church, we have to know
how to live among each other, where
we can hold conviction strongly, but
think the best about one another.
Yeah.
And not all of our scruples
are everyone else's.
And so we just have to understand.
Now that doesn't mean there are none,
um, but there's a lot of nuance of how to
like generate and, and for example, when
you watch shows on television, you know?
Yeah.
So stuff like that, it's just.
It's a, it's a road you can
get down to that people love.
And the internet especially makes us
worse because it's an echo chamber
where everybody jumps on the side.
And so literally these
things cause division.
You start having people dividing over
whether, you know, the office was a
show that Christians should watch.
And also people start taking sides
and they start not liking one another.
I mean, there's a, an element where
Paul says that each of us is, are
gonna answer to our own master.
That the answer to legalism.
Isn't lawlessness but lordship.
Mm. And so the idea that if someone
has Christ as their actual Lord and
they truly, that's the issue, if
the Christ or Lord, well the answer
to the Lord if Christ isn't their
Lord, well yeah, that's the problem.
So the answer is not lawlessness,
but having Christ as Lord.
And I think that that's, that's when, and
if you know that other person really does
believe Christ is their Lord, well then.
Generally speaking outside of gross sin.
Mm-hmm.
Um, you know, you can watch people change
and grow, and we're all in process too.
What if you have a newer Christian
that's been a Christian for, I don't
know, a little while, and they're,
I don't know, there's still cursing
here and there, or there's still,
I mean, there's people in process.
In fact, one of the greatest signs of
maturity in a church is that you're
gonna have immaturity in a church,
which is ironic because mm-hmm.
That means you have newer believers
and, and, and so that means you're
replicating, you're making disciples.
So you want us to see maturity
in longtime Christians.
And you also want to have in your church
people that are a little rough, right?
That are coming in, that are
getting saved on a regular basis.
You're gonna see some people that are.
Maybe a, a little more worldly.
You wanna see that immaturity
on a regular basis.
'cause that demonstrates life in a
church that people are getting saved.
So, I don't know if I went
too astray in your question.
No, that was, that was really helpful.
Yeah.
You want conformity to Christ that
uniformity in everyone's action.
That's a great quote.
Thank you.
I like that.
I'm go, I, I still, I still, I'm
gonna go back to drinking my coffee.
That's what special way, uh,
I. I hate when I say something.
This happens all the time.
I'll say something.
I was like, Matt wasn't that really smart.
He's like, I said that.
No, I, no, I just, now, now I'm
just gonna start quoting you.
Um, in the minute I said, conformity, not
uniformity, I was like, that's a Matt.
Yeah.
I mean, we, we had this in our small
group, remember for a popcorn question
where you were talking about rap music
and everyone's like, oh, it's the devil.
And I'm like.
I love Wu-Tang Clan.
Mm. And Wu Tang Clan is
nothing to mess with.
Um, well, I don't, I feel like though,
here's the thing, a lot of things I
liked in the past though, when I go
back, I like couldn't recommend it
now 'cause it's like full of cursing.
But like, yeah.
For example, one of my favorite
movies is Idiocracy and I
can't recommend that movie.
I'm just No.
So don't watch it.
Um, it's so inappropriate.
I probably couldn't even
watch it now, but I just.
Really love the premise of it.
So yeah, I definitely struggle with that.
So, you know, but people can be very,
there's folks whose main job it's,
is to find ways to disqualify you.
Mm-hmm.
Oh, Matt likes Idiocracy.
That means he's not Christian.
You wanna repent of that?
I'm like, oh my goodness,
I don't watch Idiocracy.
And so this is what makes Christians,
especially in leadership, become almost
like politicians because they're afraid
of a crowd of people that are constantly
trying to not think the best about them.
Yeah.
Um.
So we wanna give one another
the benefit of the doubt.
We wanna be kind and slow to anger.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and just give people a, a second, you
know, and, and, and see what's going on.
That's, that's helpful to Yeah.
The maturity.
Yeah.
I would never tell anyone to go
listen to Wutang Klan or Emine.
Right.
Or, or, you know, Jay-Z.
But the, I, I love that from a
lyricist standpoint, it's a amazing
how they're linking words together.
My, even though the content is terrible,
my favorite music is angry lesbian music.
It's true.
Yeah.
Like, I love.
Nora Jones?
No, Nora Jones is fine.
I'm like, I was a, I had a big crush
on Sarah McLaughlin growing up and
then I liked, I listened to Ani de
Franco, who's one of the most amazing.
Did you like Shenae O'Connor?
No, she's not.
So that was two mainstream stuff
I liked, like, again, on like
folk music, angry lesbian music.
I used it 'cause like Ani
de Francos a great example.
Um, D Williams Old school.
I like Kate Bush way back in
the day, like I'm old school.
But I love all that stuff even
though I was in a punk band.
And so I. But the music, half the time,
FRAGO, for example, everything she sings
about, I pretty much despise like she's
all of her politics, all of her views on
life I, I hate, but she's a brilliant.
Lyricist and I'm like, if she can sing and
write so well about such crappy subjects,
it's just really inspiring to me.
But I wouldn't tell people, you
should go listen to Ani d Franco.
You know what I mean?
So is that, is that where you went
for your anniversary or something?
Didn't you go to one of her shows?
Sarah McLaughlin.
Sarah, I'm, I've seen Sarah
Lin live a bunch of times, so.
I knew that I was just throwing
you under the bus in a gentle way.
Yeah.
Uh, didn't you go to a Sarah?
Yes.
I mean, and it, it's, you know, right.
It's like it's a concert of demons, right.
No, I'm just, yeah.
I really like Sarah McLaughlin.
She's great, but that's good.
No, it's good on yoga.
I, you mentioned something in there
about kinda the meditation aspect of it.
Um, when, when someone's
going to yoga say, I'm gonna
go meditate, and they're not.
What's the difference between
meditation as the world would phrase
it, and in me, in meditating against
picture Christian meditation.
Okay, here, lemme say this.
If someone says, I'm gonna
go to yoga and go meditate.
I do think I have a problem with
that because that, it's just like
saying in counseling we talk about
certain things, like there's, there's
certain worldviews that are implicit.
So meditation in the Bible means
to think upon something, right?
So you meditate upon the Lord, right?
When we, um, we worship
God with our minds.
Um, and so that's one of the things we do.
We we're transformed by the renewing
of our minds, which requires a
sort of, meditation just means
to think upon something really.
It just means to, to ruminate,
to think about something.
Eastern Medicate meditation, um, is
about emptying your mind and that
your mind really, your personality
is ultimately the problem.
So like old school Buddhism, the,
the idea of like, you want to become.
Like their idea is that all
of your passion, good or bad,
you yourself are the problem.
So you wanna become self,
you know, more self.
And sometimes ignorant Christians
see where Paul's commanded,
like essentially died to self.
They'll say, it's kinda
like in Buddhism and Easter.
Like, no, it's not.
It's a very different thing because
he's not saying erase yourself, right?
He's saying, well, God's
given you a new nature.
Meditate upon the desires of the Lord.
In Galatians, for example, these are
the desires, the Lord, and they're
against the desires of the Spirit.
So he's not just saying, empty yourself
in eastern sort of meditation, the
idea of of repeating the chants,
the ohms or whatever, is to clear
your, to empty yourself, and the
idea that yourself is the enemy and
the problem, but Christ did not.
This goes against the very work of Christ.
So as a Christian.
Emptying your mind, uh, doesn't
find wholeness, fullness.
Annihilation is not our goal.
Um, and we're not transformed by
emptying our mind and our thoughts.
We're transformed by thinking on
Christ, thinking on the things of God.
Uh, whatever is true, whatever is noble.
Think on these things Paul says.
So, um, meditation in that way is
a lot like when you read the Bible
and you, you think, and you stop.
Like, one of the things I, I love to
do is I will read something and if it
arrests me as I read it, I'll pause and.
Think about that thing and
or I'll write like that's, so
sometimes I'll find meditation.
We sometimes will describe it as like
a state of relaxed sort of zoning out.
And even I do that in the vernacular.
But like, so for example, if I, if
I'm in Juujitsu, I like it because
I'm not thinking about other things.
I'm focused and it feels
like a meditative state.
But even that's using in a loose way.
It just means it's fun to focus.
We're so distracted all the
time, not being distracted.
So the benefit of the people trying
to clear their mind is they're
trying to get rid of distraction.
I get that.
I get it.
Um, but your mind is not your enemy.
I, I is, is I think the Christian idea.
It's that your old, the old
desires are the enemy, and
Christ has given you new desires.
And we're transformed by the
renewing of those desires, I
guess, if that makes sense.
So, yeah.
What, what about things like the Calm
app, and do you think people often will go
to those apps instead of, you know, like
in the Psalms going to the word, you're
like, Hey, I'm having a stressed out day.
I'm completely frazzled.
Let's go to Psalm 23.
Okay.
The Lord is My Shepherd.
Yeah.
Shout that Mom.
What a blessing.
What's the Calm app?
Is that the breathing thing
or, or the Breathe app?
E. Either way.
A calm, breathe.
Very simple.
Yeah.
Okay.
So look, there's, this is what I mean.
This is such a great example to yoga.
If you go on the Calm app, it's the same
as like, it's like spa music basically.
Yeah.
And they'll be like, breathe
in there for this many seconds.
There's like guided meditation things,
but a lot of it is just like whale noises.
Well, what's the guided,
what's the guided meditation?
What does it say?
It's like, I don't know.
It's usually some actor being like,
and now you think of a hippopotamus.
Hippopotamus, like
slowly swimming through.
I just, okay, lemme say this.
If you're going to an app, listening
to an actor tell you to think about
hippopotamus, to find peace in your life,
you need the Lord so much, and you need
the word like it's just so inferior.
Like the idea that a Christian
that knows the Bible at all would
do that is just so antithetical.
I just don't understand how that
would even be possible that you're
like, wait a second, I have this.
Awesome book that's from the Lord, but I'm
gonna go listen to Robert Downey Jr. Tell
me to like, think about a hippopotamus.
Like you just don't
know that you're lying.
Like you just don't know the word.
Like it's, that's stupid.
But, but the Breathe
app is a great example.
We are that Got, that got me.
So, uh, think about a is
there's a psalm at Hippopotamus.
But anyways, I guess the point
is if the Breathe app though is.
You get like this.
And so, so similar to the medi,
to the yoga stuff, there's
um, sort of affectations.
You, you get spa music.
It's like seashell sounds, I
don't know, whatever that means.
Like, you know, whatever.
And they're like, breathe in, breathe out.
A Christian can do that.
There's nothing implicitly demonic
about those things, but here's
what makes people uncomfortable.
They're associated.
Often with places that just
sort of are really pushing
into that new age stuff, right?
I think that if you're sensitive
and you say, Hey, this thing is, is
associated with something I'm really,
really against, then don't go into it.
But the spa music and a Breathe app is
not the same as emptying your mind, right?
Like I think it's calming down
your breathing, which is really
great for central nervous system.
There's, there's books about breathing
that aren't about emptying your mind.
Um.
So anyways, I, I think that that
same limit is like, but if you're
sensitive to it, you're like, I
heard spa music and spa music.
It's the same thing happened
with drums in church.
Oh yeah.
They had a whole thing, they
used to have this video called
Rock Music is of the Devil.
And the idea is that the syncopated
beat is the beat of Satan.
And I'm like, okay, it's overstating.
And they're like, and the beat of
the drum is the beat of Satan and
people are really convicted about it.
And I'm like, cool.
So don't listen to that.
But.
The church cannot capitulate to.
The weaker brother in the Bible
is the one who's scrupulous,
not the one who has liberty.
And so often we have to bear with
the weaker brother in things, but
the weaker person doesn't get to
dictate how the whole church operates.
So you just wanna be
careful about these things.
Um, I think as pastors you need to
have courage because sometimes you
have to allow people to have liberty
and you have to take the shots so
that they can have that liberty.
You gotta be willing to not be a
people pleaser a little bit and.
If someone's, you know, in a
scale of, of that's pure judgment
all the time, like, that's bad.
That's a, a, a not a good thing.
And often that person needs to
be confronted, where's your joy?
Mm-hmm.
Where, where are, what are you focused on?
The Lord?
Why is it that you keep bringing up
subjects all the time about people?
It's, it's kind of an
interesting facet, right?
Like, we know the Bible does, you
know, you're like, well, where
does the Bible say about yoga?
Exactly.
Oh, you gotta, this means
this, this means that.
I'm like, well, you know what?
It does say, it says this
is the will of God for you.
That you rejoice always.
I just, I'm not seeing that in you.
Right?
Like, we don't see that
conversation happen enough.
And I'm, I'm as conservative as
it gets in, in a lot of ways.
So, but I just think we're not hard
on ourselves enough about the person
that has no joy, that has no gratitude,
that does not seem to be full of
life, and the word that's constantly
discerning everybody around them.
I, I just think that that person needs
to check themselves a little bit.
I think they're diluted.
Yeah, the reason the Downey Junior
thing got me so much was because I just,
that's the first thing that came to mind.
No, I kept thinking about another
story that ha was, as Pastor Paul and
I believe we're, we're counseling a
couple for like a long time and they
for, you know, months to my recollection.
And then one day she said to email, she's
like, thanks, I'm gonna try horse therapy.
I'm gonna try horse therapy.
And Paul goes.
Uh, we just got ousted by a horse man.
Well, and but you know what's so funny
like this, I'll say this about therapy.
That's so funny because the same thing
as yoga, like anything you do that
gives you a sense of like, perspective
that's not just in your own head
constantly, it can help you, right?
Yeah.
So when you tell, so.
One of the problems with the church
is that when people make market the
church as like the answer to you
having purpose in your life, it's true.
God is the only reason for
purpose that's legitimate.
Right?
But lots of things can give you a
sense of purpose for a time being,
which is why people like, so as long
if we market the church as just a
place of purpose, well now you're
competing with everything someone does.
Like, you know, every community,
every sport, you know, the, the Brony,
my Little Pony people have purpose.
'cause my little ponies, I
mean, and they'll give the
testimony and I'm like the most.
We believe Christianity.
'cause it's true.
It it, it doesn't, it's not about,
look, yes, it does help your life.
Yes, you have purpose, but it's true.
Jesus Christ actually.
It, you know, Liv died, rose again.
He's actually reigning, you know, he's
actually the right hand of the father.
He like, he's alive.
Um, these things are true.
And so the, the benefit of them isn't
the, the, the main selling point.
I guess.
It's, it's the fact that it's true.
And so, um, I don't know
where I was going with that.
All do, do you think it's like a
nomenclature thing as well, like
saying horse therapy or like it's,
it is go, it's fun to go ride horses?
Well, no one, yeah.
It sounds so much more serious.
Yeah.
Um, it's horse therapy.
I mean, like, you just say, I'm
gonna, I don't wanna listen to you.
I wanna go ride horses.
It sounds less.
Serious.
Yeah.
Um, it's kinda like they, my favorite
troll, and it's not a troll, this is
what's ironic, is that we're living
in an upside down world, is that
they have a thing called goat yoga.
Oh yeah.
Which it just seems like
something from South Park.
Mm-hmm.
Or something, and I've never done it so.
Uh, correct me if you like, I,
it just sounds like the ultimate
troll, like if you're taking this
so serious in a spiritual sense.
Well, baby goats seem to take
that seriousness away, but
there's some weird person.
Okay.
There's this, we're watching
Survivor with my, we.
This is how we teach my children
about interpersonal relationships
and power dynamics, and it's true.
It's a great show for that.
There's this one girl on the one
we're watching now, who's calls her.
She's a new age girl, but she's
always talking about Jesus and
she's, so, I despise this lady.
God forgive me.
I prayed for her.
She annoys me.
I want her to get, she finally got
voted off of, was so happy, but she
was always talking about Jesus once
this, and we're thankful for this,
but she was just, she was blaspheming.
She's lying about Jesus.
It's just she's a classic new age person
and she's the kind of person that would've
put goats on your back in a serious
way and talk about how's doing this.
So I'm like.
I just love the troll of goat yoga.
I just think it's hilarious to me.
Yeah.
Um, but I'm sorry if that girl and
survivor is your friend or you're watching
this, you're probably really nice.
I just.
Really, I'm sure she's a sweetheart.
Um, bowl healings, sound healings
and, uh, water babe Sound therapy.
I heard, I saw a thing.
Sound therapy.
Yeah.
How, how is that?
I, I've talked to some in
our midst and they're, well,
it's just the same as music.
So is it the heart motive behind
why you're going it or, or what
you're trying to get out of it?
Uh, they're like, well, you
listen to your music in your car.
I do.
My bowl healings.
It calms both of us down.
Okay, but you just said the word conswell.
So before I was a Christian, I
got saved when I was training
for the Olympics in rowing.
And I was dealing with a lot
of, I wanted to go into sports
psychology and I was always looking
for ways to mentally, uh, prepare.
It was a very mentally,
um, challenging sport.
And so, you know, you're trying
to deal with like, how do you
deal with like pain tolerance?
How do you deal with things?
And so I used to listen to like, Yo-Yo
Ma. You know, the guy and, and I would
just try to like get into a space of peace
without the Lord, I didn't know Jesus.
And it would, it would help you
calm down, like, because you're
just, everything's frenetic.
And, you know, prior to that I was
listening to Rage Against Machine
and this and that, trying to get
me up and it wasn't helping me.
And so I went to, so
I would just be doing.
You know, ER pieces and then the rowing
machine listening to like Sarah McLaughlin
or Yo-yo, man, calm, I, I get it.
Listening to calm things is
nice and that's why spas usually
aren't playing heavy metal.
Right?
Like there's a reason like,
I can't imagine a metal spa.
Although that sounds like,
sounds interesting idea.
You said that.
I go, that sounds awesome.
You know what, maybe they,
someone should have it.
It's a metal spa, but it just.
When I was at the, the one gym down here,
there was like a, a classic like hardcore
lifting gym and a cave, and they had like,
all of a sudden always heavy metal music.
And it was so irritating after a
while and the music was, and I'm, if
you're in a heavy metal, good for you.
But it was just things like,
like, I'm your best friend.
It was just, it was all,
it was like emo metal.
But anyways.
I think that if you imagine, you
know, calm music is great and there's
a reason that it calms you down.
But again, again, again, if the,
someone says, we're gonna do the sound
therapy and the, and it's openly,
overtly pagan, not, I like the sounds.
But it's overtly pagan.
It's the same as going
to an art gallery, right?
I like the artist.
But if it's like, there's a
difference between art and
actual like pornography, right?
Like mm-hmm.
But it's art.
Like you have to check yourself
and understand that you do have
liberty, but not all things
are edifying and good for you.
And particularly if you go to something
that's overtly godden denying, like,
not neutral, not this, you know, so
these sound bads talk about, like
for example, I don't, the whole
Q stuff, this is a great example.
If you're into like, I'm a new
internal martial arts and I like Qi.
Th that's not, that doesn't
go with the God of the Bible.
It doesn't go with
anthropology or how God works.
It's, it's charismatic martial arts.
It's not, yeah, I, I
would say you should quit.
But does that mean you can't go to a
karate class and learn to punch and kick?
No, you go.
Absolutely.
But do you go in and have to meditate?
Yeah, I wouldn't do that.
So same thing with the
sound therapy stuff.
Like if you go someplace,
oh, that sounds nice.
Fine.
But if you're going like, oh yeah, I
go 'cause it like centers my being.
I'm like, okay, you, you're,
you're in the wrong place.
Um, when someone says, I like the sound,
it makes me feel calm, that's great.
But yeah, this is changing
my vibrations to my aura.
I'm like, okay, you're it.
If you're claiming to be a Christian,
something's missing that you're
finding so much value in this just.
Is, is that rude?
I mean, that's best way I can say it.
No, that, that's helpful.
That ties into my last question kind of on
the, on the topic is, you know, I, I talk
to Christians and they say this sentence,
those things give me so much peace.
Well, th that's fine.
Um, it sounds like they're not working
very well because you keep doing,
like, in other words, Jesus says, we're
gonna have tribulation in this world.
And so the idea that you're
trying to find peace in this
world is, I think the problem.
He, he's like, we're supposed to have
peace in Christ and Christ in us.
And so, which means like.
The Christian has a supernatural
ability to be, you know when Peter
says, let them see your reasonableness.
Always be ready to have an answer
for the hope you have in you.
Let your reasonableness be known to God.
There's the idea that,
that there's something.
It is reasonable, uh, for us,
reasonable for us to have hope in
the midst of tribulation because
we have a sober minded real life.
Actual hope.
It is not a pie in the sky, Haku, matata,
but there's an actual Jesus, there's
a reason constantly rejoice in him.
We have a real inheritance, and so that
same person that doesn't have peace,
let me give you a thought experiment.
If I said to you, well, you
just inherited $30 billion and.
That's in your account as soon
as like this person adopted you,
and when they die, you get it.
And you're like, oh, are you
stressed now about your job?
Like, yeah, you need enough money to make
it through the next few days, but it would
completely reset how you lived your life.
You'd be less stressed about the things
that are happening because you know this
giant like inheritance is coming and yet
we have a better inheritance than that.
It's a whole point of what we
have an imperishable inheritance
waiting for us, and so we're
supposed to live in light of that.
So the reason that so much many of
us don't have the peace and we need
to go to these things is that we
aren't really receiving the joy.
The peace, the, the wonderful thing
that, that comes from knowing the
gospel's promises and our inheritance.
And so again, that person that's
finding these things, you know, I
wouldn't, I wouldn't try to parse
that they're wicked evil or wrong, but
they are missing out on something very
fundamental to the Christian life and.
I understand why people are,
I mean so many, we, we, we,
we tend to neglect the word.
And so going back to that episode we
did previously about reading the Bible.
I'm telling you, if that's you, if
you're someone that's doing these
things, I'm not criticizing you.
I'm just saying you're.
You're, you're seeking, you
know, juice from the wrong
fruit, you know what I mean?
Like it's, there's something
better and if you have it already.
And so, I dunno.
Do you think that's systemic too?
Just as far as not, not people not
centering their life around Christ
and ultimately the local church.
Yeah.
And so they fill the schedules just
filled with running around all the time
instead of sacrificing dying to self.
Calling those in our, our
midst going to small groups.
Well, you just said
something really fascinating.
So when, when we say, when a Christian
says die to self, when the Bible says
that, it just makes the Bible seem like
Christ is this canteen, sort of E Emmanuel
Cantz idea of just, it's very Eastern
in one sense, it's ironically that.
That you are the problem.
Deny it that Christianity is about
like the, the fruit I, CS Lewis
actually said this really well.
He said like, if you asked many people
what is the greatest virtue, right?
And, and they would say things
like temperance or this,
you know, denial of self.
He goes, none of those things are an
end, they're a means to some other end.
For example, when God says, be holy.
Which is, which means to be other, right?
So you think about the died of self,
be like, God, it's not be holy, period.
It's be holy because I am holy.
In other words, it's a means to an end,
which is fellowship with the holy God.
The fact that God wants us to be
like him so that we can be in better
relationship with him is the confession.
I'm gonna see the same thing.
The way God sees this is the now we
can have a relationship where we're
actually honest with each other.
I see my sin the way God sees it.
I see his forgiveness
the way he's given it.
You know, in First John, now I can
go forward in this relationship
from a place of honesty.
Like these things all make
sense as a means to an end.
So, you know, for just this general
picture of, you know, kinda what
we're, we're looking for in all
this, it is a means to an end.
So denial of self is freedom because
we are just so oppressed by constantly.
As, as Truman calls it, uh,
Carl Truman calls the rise and
the triumph of the modern self.
It, it's a concept that.
Is new in human history.
It came out, I don't wanna go into
Charles Taylor and the buffer itself and
all, but like it's really fascinating.
We do it on their Tuesday night stuff,
but this idea that we keep feeding,
self feeding, self feeding self.
And self is a terrible God.
The, the everything you give to yourself
the eye is never pleased with seeing.
The ear is never pleased with hearing.
It's never satisfied with eating.
Your belly has to keep doing that.
So Ecclesiastes, you are a
terrible God to yourself.
You're a terrible leader to
yourself and you're oppressed
constantly by feeling like you are.
Like searching for your glory,
your security, your significance,
you, you, you, you, you.
The blessing of self-denial is the
freedom to now focus on, first of
all, Christ is the main story, the
main, the main character in the story.
And also when you look at others
as image bearers of Christ and you
just, and you say like, here's a tip.
Go to your small group
and forget your needs.
The thing I think you need as
a Christian hearing me right
now is to go to your group.
And completely focus on
what everyone else needs.
And there's a freedom there.
It is more meditative and freeing
than anything you can do to be about
others as, as a way to worship God.
And oh my goodness, it is freeing.
You know, one day we'll have a, a
new body that's not self-focused,
but for now we have to not.
You know, not constantly feed it.
And everything in our life is
feeding self, feeding self.
And so we're stressed,
we're looking for things.
And what Jesus promises in denial
is freedom from that oppression.
And that is the path to joy.
And, and it's not, it's not balance
this with joy, the path to joy that
when he says, my burden is light, well.
That's there's, there's a promise
implicit in this, but it requires
you to have faith that, okay, it
doesn't seem like not focusing on
self is gonna gimme what I want.
I'm gonna stop, I'm gonna trust God.
I'm gonna focus on others.
I'm gonna focus on helping and loving
and sacrificially doing these things.
The result might surprise you.
Yeah, let's go.
I mean, I'm pumped.
Yeah, I started preaching there.
Sorry.
That was good.
That's gonna segue right into.
Another episode of Does it Slap?
Oh gosh, we're doing this again.
We are, yeah.
Uh, baseball.
Does not slap.
I don't like baseball.
Wow.
Unbelievable.
But I, baseball is, I say
baseball's the most negative sport.
When I was a kid, I had like, almost, I'm
not, I'm like a trauma, not a trauma guy,
but like when I was a kid, I played T-ball
and I got an award for having the cleanest
uniform and, and I'm a athletic guy.
I, uh.
They made me the catcher in T-Ball,
but the thing I didn't like about
it, I was into it, but I just never
wanted to make a mistake because
I realized they count your errors.
Like if you're in outfield and
you catch the ball, everyone's
like, all right, whatever.
But if you miss the ball, oh,
like you're supposed to catch it.
So I'm just like, it's the
most negative sport there is.
All the stats are about how you messed up.
There's literally an error stat.
I just, we keep track of, I'm not
into that, so that's, I'm not, if
you're into baseball, that's great.
I, I like gonna baseball game sometimes.
Yeah.
But I'm not into it.
It's definitely keeping a record of rum.
It does not slap, uh, soccer is awesome.
Okay.
It, it slaps, slaps, the
color orange does not slap.
I don't like orange.
Orange is sort of a. Yeah,
it was a bastard color.
I agree.
Yeah.
Is that a bad word?
No, it's a good, it's just a word.
Yeah.
Uh, trees
got 'em.
Trees slap.
What in the world is this?
All right.
And then, uh, the movie,
the Wizard of Oz. It slaps.
Absolutely.
Are you kidding me?
That's it.
Slaps hard.
It does slap hard.
The guy that wrote The Wizard of Oz
lives, lives in, uh, lived in Coronado.
Really?
Yeah.
That's why it's called the, uh,
em like Emerald, Emerald City.
It's all, it's the, I
thought Corona meant crown.
What's that?
Does it Crown City?
But it's also Emerald City is where
they have like the surf shop and
there's this Wizard of Oz wrote.
Um, so whoever wrote the
wizard Robins lives in Corona.
Huh?
Not a place I necessarily live.
We're just saying a random
city, but, all right.
Uh, now we'll get to questions.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, I have those too.
Yeah, we have those too.
And a lot of shout outs.
Gotta pitch the swag.
Uh, this week, um, we got
Blake from Nash Real Tennessee.
BB uh, is subject is mental illness.
So it's kind of on par of what we
were talking about a little bit.
But how do you counsel people who deal.
Uh, I think it's supposed to be with,
how do you counsel people who deal
with mental illness, namely depression,
bipolarism, and or schizophrenia?
How do you maintain biblical truth
at the forefront, balanced with
people who may need medications
slash drugs and assistance?
Yeah, I'm a, I think
I'll, I'll say two things.
I think that drugs are overprescribed.
Um, I think the problem is when we think
of problems merely in a physical sense.
So, so what?
The way we deal with all these
problems, uh, says a lot about
our view of people, right?
So if we view people as merely
chemical machines from a materialistic
perspective, then yeah, I think the
way drugs are prescribed in that sense,
uh, is gonna be imbalanced, right?
Um.
But if we say people are merely
spiritual beings and there's no,
they're not physical at all, that's
also kind of gnostic and also untrue.
We're not merely, we are embodied spirits.
We are, we have bodies and we
have spirit, and they both matter.
And so medicine, there are chemical
problems, not, you know, not
everything is merely spiritual.
And yes, they are interrelated
and interchangeable at times.
Like psychosomatic things can go together.
So basic, the basic rule of thumb,
I think is this, we have to counsel
and treat problems in people as, as.
Problems for whole people.
So I would say that medicine,
first of all, is a wonderful
common grace that God's given us
that allows people to function.
So in the same way, some people
are born with like literal
physical challenges, right?
Like a. Deformed limb
or something like that.
They're born with that.
Well, you know, if someone has a
broken leg, we don't just pray over it.
You have to set the, the bone.
And so there's aspects in our body
chemically that do deal with like mental
things like bipolar and schizophrenia.
The problem is schizophrenia, for
example, and even bipolar, are
often over-diagnosed their, their,
um, junk drawer d sort of like.
Descriptors, right?
Schizophrenia, like what, what
kind and what does that mean?
And you know, what does
it mean manic depressive?
So I would just argue that clarity
matters that you're your best advocate.
Um, I'm a pro medicine kind of guy.
I think medicine can help with the caveat
that it's not by itself the only solution.
So if your whole life, you're.
You know, you're never outside.
You never do exercise, and
you find yourself depressed.
Well, before you just jump on SSRIs,
perhaps you should get some exercise.
Start working out, go to the
gym, do some, Hey, you know, my
depression's kind of gone away.
If you're a Christian, you know, and
you don't read the Bible at all, and
you're like, I'm constantly anxious.
Well, I'm not saying that it's
not a physical thing, but let's
start with reading the Bible.
Um, but yeah, you can add, do, do
these two things in conjunction.
And so I am of a. A mind that it's
okay to take medicine even if you
have to take the rest of your life.
We live in a fallen world, and
if that's what you need to do
to get through life, fine, but I
don't think medicine by itself.
And its first thing is at all the answer.
'cause you're not merely just a bag
of chemicals, you're more than that.
So, I dunno if that's
answering the question.
It does.
There's, I think you, they need to be
integrated, but you're your best advocate.
So I would say make sure, first
and foremost, the number one
thing to tune your life up as
your relationship with God.
And as a Christian you can have
depression like you have, like Paul
talks about despairing even of his life.
But I think as a subtle
posture that becomes a problem.
And so.
So sometimes our disciplines that we
have are uniquely suited to causing
anxiety and depression, and so we
can reframe those at the same time.
The way, you know, our diet, how
we eat and medicine can, can help.
And there's some people that
are legitimately at the license
plate or talking to me phase.
Yeah.
And those folks need
medication absolutely.
Right now just to function.
And there's a difference.
There's sort of a different
scale on these things.
Um, yeah, that's helpful.
And Blake?
Yeah.
There's also a great book, it's called
Descriptions and Prescriptions by Emli.
I would commend to you as well.
That's great.
It's short.
It's as short as mere membership.
Um, last question for this week, coming
from Samuel, he says his title is
Worships Worship Albums and Touring.
A popular worship band was touring
and came through my area a couple
years back, and I wanted to attend.
I opened the ticketing website and
saw the cheapest tickets were $80.
Is there something inherently wrong for
the bands to be on tour in the name of
God and making money as entrepreneurs?
What about people making
Bible inspired apparel?
Yeah.
Uh, while I'm talking,
make sure you buy our cups.
Um, or is it simply a hard issue?
Yeah, no, I like, I think
that that's a, yeah.
So I get the, the con concern, but
there's nothing in the, yeah, no.
I think the labor, Paul says
a labor is worthy of their.
They're labor.
Right?
They're so, so they're
worthy of their up their pay.
Right.
He says something close to that.
Yeah.
My mind, there's a lot of, sorry, a lot.
I can't help myself.
When you make it, you're
as worthy of as wages.
Thank you.
I'm like, ugh.
Um, and this is true not
only for passport for people.
And so if they're playing music
and entertaining you and they wanna
charge you for it, that that's great.
You can decide to not pay it.
They're not, I think the challenge,
the sin would be if someone's forcing
you to pay for something like they
would for healthcare, but anyways,
um, like you have to buy insurance.
But, um, but in the case of an artist
that's doing that, they're basically
saying, we're gonna go do something.
We're gonna labor that you can
pay to go to, and you don't,
they're not forcing you to pay.
So, yeah, of course it's not
a sin, there's not a problem.
And they can charge whatever they want.
There's nothing sinful
about how much they charge.
They're not, you're not entitled to a
charity of them doing it now is now let's.
Rephrase that.
If you're showing up at church and they're
charging you at the door to go to church.
Now, I don't mean if they're
doing a concert at church.
I mean, if it's a Sunday church, uh, yeah.
There's no, you should not.
There's no VIP sections at church.
There's no paying for stuff, so you
do not need to pay to be at church.
Um, but that's not church.
This is something they're doing a,
they're giving you a service and
they're charging you for it, and
you can decide to take part in it.
And for some people.
That's gonna be a great price, but
there's always a scalable thing.
It's like, what kind
of car is too much car?
Like, all these questions
get us on the wrong scale.
Um, so yeah, we, I think that
people should value their time.
They should charge people for
things and then people get to decide
whether that's something worth it.
That's the beau beauty of a
capitalistic system, is that you
get to vote no with your feet and
uh, if enough people vote no, then
maybe they have to change the price.
And so.
Thanks again, Matt.
Appreciate your work each week
into answering my questions and the
questions that people actually ask.
Chancy.
Anything to add?
Chancy is great.
Thanks, Chancy.
In the comments.
If you like our content, like and
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And if you can come to Bravos
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Yeah.
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We're gonna have a mere, let's go
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We should have, we should get
kittens and put mere cats.
Mere cats.
That's good.
And you could buy a mere cat.
All right.
Amen.
All right.
We'll see y'all next week when
we will be talking about music.
We'll see you then.
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