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The Beyond High Performance Podcast is brought to you by the coaches and friends of the executive coaching firm, Novus Global, and the Meta Performance Institute for Coaching. Join us for intentional, vulnerable, thought provoking conversations that illustrate the life-shifting power of coaching. In order to adequately share the breadth and depth of the firm’s insights, this podcast consists of three unique shows. The Meta Performance Show, will bring you unflinching interviews with top industry leaders on their paths to success. Next, we explore with the show called On Coaching, which pulls back the curtain on the intricacies of life as a Novus Global Coach. And finally, Your Finest Hour, which explores the unique dynamics between a coach and their client by bringing both on the show to unpack their coaching experience together. This podcast was crafted to help you grow as a coach, leader, employee, and human being, inspiring you to go beyond high performance and explore what you are capable of. Note that this podcast is not for those who are committed to mediocrity.
# Swell AI Transcript: Building Culture (First Edit) - On Coaching.mp3
SPEAKER_01:
Welcome to the Beyond High Performance podcast featuring content and conversations from me, Jason Jaggard, along with our elite coaches at Novus Global, their high performing clients, and the faculty of the Metta Performance Institute for Coaching.
SPEAKER_01:
On this podcast, you'll hear some of the world's best executive coaches and high performing leaders, artists, and athletes discuss how they continue to go beyond high performance in their lives and businesses.
SPEAKER_05:
On today's episode of On Coaching, we're going under the hood of building culture in your business and your life.
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I'm David Miller, Chief Expansion Officer at Novus Global, and I'm joined by my colleagues Shawna Barnes, John Roberts, and Kristen Frey, as we explore what we mean when we talk about culture.
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In this conversation, we discuss what to do when you experience cultural misalignment, what is at stake when culture is not defined well, and what it takes to create the culture you'd love to be a part of.
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We also give a snapshot of how we lean into our culture here at Novus Global.
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We hope you enjoy the show.
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The wait is finally over.
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Our new book, Beyond High Performance, What Great Coaches Know About How the Best Get Better, is available for purchase wherever books are sold.
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This USA Today bestseller is more than 250 pages
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of expertise, anecdotes, and insights from Novus Global coaches, as well as faculty from the Metta Performance Institute for Coaching.
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We are so excited to put our proprietary framework that has helped thousands of leaders achieve more into your hands.
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And we can't wait to see how you'll use the book to enhance your life and leadership.
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To learn more and obtain this essential resource for yourself, visit novus.global.com.
SPEAKER_05:
Okay, welcome to this episode of On Coaching.
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Today, we're talking about the impact a company's culture has on the team and the overall vision and alignment of the company.
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My name is David Miller, and I'm joined today by three incredible executive coaches, Shauna Barnes, John Roberts, and Kristen Frade.
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And as we talk about the power of coaching, Shauna, you have a really great definition of what a company's culture can look like that you share with teams as you do some of your training.
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And I'd love if we start off our time just diving straight into defining a little bit of what we're talking about when we say culture.
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Yeah, thanks, David.
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There are so many definitions out there around culture.
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So to ground us, and this is, you know, borrowed from a number of different places, culture we want to explore today is really the expression of values in a company, often guided by expectations.
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So what others do, followed by explicit norms of the people, the individuals in the organization and what teams get up to.
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So that's a really broad definition, but it helps to sort of start us off and paint that picture.
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We were joking a little bit earlier just about there are so many different definitions and so bringing clarity is important.
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And I just wonder if anyone listening has an image of a boardroom with a poster of values.
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That is referred to as oftentimes when you're welcomed into an organization, you go into that boardroom and you see those values, and that's the first introduction to a part of an organizational culture.
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As you hear that, you know, as the wisdom of this room, as you hear that, what's a response that you have to that definition of culture?
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I have a few thoughts.
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David, I think the boardroom is a great example.
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I've worked with a lot of companies and I'll ask them what their culture is and they'll say, oh, you know, these three words or these five words or these three sentences.
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And so I'm like, oh, great, that's your spoken culture or your spoken values.
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And then I'll ask follow up questions about like,
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How do you know it's working?
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Can you connect that down into the actions of your team?
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And often we can't.
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And I think that's actually very confusing for people because I think that's where culture gets watered down.
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I think that's where values get watered down.
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And so when I think about culture, and David, I think you've said this before, but everybody has a culture.
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Whether you realize it or not, you have a culture.
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It's there.
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It's just, have you put words to it?
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Can you connect words to actions?
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And so when I think about culture, I think about spoken culture.
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So right now, if you're an executive at a company, or if you're a leader, or you lead teams, or you have a family, if you have a family, then you are a leader of culture.
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If you are part of a family, you are a contributor to family culture.
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And so I want you to think about a few different ways to look at this as we unpack the topic.
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Spoken culture, so that's what we speak out loud.
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Those are potentially the values that we say are important to us.
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And then I think there's actual culture.
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Actual culture.
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And that's what's actually happening.
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And so whether you're a part of a company, whether you lead a company or you lead a family, right now, think about what your actual culture is.
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What are the repeated actions you do?
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What are the things you expect of each other?
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And then I'll sort of wrap up my intro on this with what I think culture is.
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I think culture is the scaffolding.
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the scaffolding of a company that allows the company to grow larger than just the sum of the parts.
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I think individuals get to come into a company and they get to plug into the scaffolding.
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So it's almost like a force multiplier.
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If a company does culture well, and I think individuals feel that.
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And so that's what I would say.
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How do you build a culture that's a force multiplier for your team and the individuals at the team?
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Well, John, some of you just said that hit me is when a company does culture well, individuals feel that.
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And it's the feeling piece that stands out to me because even combo with Shana, what you said about the boardroom or the posters, and I know my previous experience when people create those values or it's time to create a mission statement, people are like, ah,
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It's so overwhelming or they spend so much time and energy on it.
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And then I wonder if you go into the company after it's all created, like who can actually regurgitate this?
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And it's like, no one, or maybe the person that actually came up with it.
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But if you ask them, hey, what's the culture of your company?
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My guess is they would actually regurgitate more of the feeling that they have around the experience they're having there.
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And it varies from person to person.
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too, which is always so interesting.
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But it's like, where are the patterns and the answers that you get?
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And to me, that's the actual culture.
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So John, I love your distinction of like, there's the stated culture, but then there's the actual culture of what's really going on.
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And in kind of a past life, before joining Novus Global, I was a part of an organization and we would help.
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We did that work that all of you have mentioned where we would come into an organization and do a two day retreat and everyone's going to walk out with like the three to five, you know, mission, vision, value, all everything would be kind of distilled in this.
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And here's something that I'd be really curious to get your take on.
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Oftentimes I would walk out of those rooms and there would be this thing kind of nagging me around.
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I think what we just accomplished was we articulated a preferred culture or like a, like a, like a, an aspirational vision.
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versus really drilling down into and allowing a little bit of the who we are today to to become official.
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And I'm curious if you've experienced that, whether in organizations that you've worked with or maybe in your own stories.
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And what is the danger of aspirational culture?
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being, you know, kind of taking the lead versus something that we really in our day-to-day exhibit this, we live this out, we love this, we are this, and then maybe where can there be some dissonance there?
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I would say the word aspirational in and of itself is like my answer where if there's a company or a group that aspires to it, it's like, but then you do nothing with it.
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Then that can be dangerous because if you're saying this is the culture, but you do nothing to actually move towards it and there's no actions behind it.
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then there's going to be a huge break of trust because there's a huge misalignment there where it's like, yeah, we say this, but we're not this, so something's off here versus how connected to those words of the mission statement or the sentence, how connected to it are they and how willing to do the work to actually make it happen.
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To me, that's the biggest distinction of whether or not it actually helps or hurts them.
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I mean, now we're getting down to first principles, basics.
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Why do people not have in their life what they say that they want?
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And I think it's very normal and easy to say, we want healthy culture.
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We want a growth-based culture.
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We want an aspirational culture.
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And as you were talking, it's like, well, why doesn't that happen?
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Because it takes work.
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Because it takes intention.
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It takes effort.
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Frankly, I think it takes getting uncomfortable.
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I think everyone wants to be a part of a culture.
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that helps them grow and is a visionary.
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And I think they expect the CEO or the leader to create that.
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And now I do.
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I do think it's the responsibility of the CEO or a leader to take ownership of setting culture.
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But not one person can do it.
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It's one thing to set it.
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It's another thing
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to invite others to take ownership of culture.
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And I think if we all thought about the most healthy cultures that we've been in, participated in, seen, I think you walk into the room and you go top to bottom.
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Something is flowing here.
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And maybe it's stated flowing, maybe it's just felt.
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Maybe you can see it in the actions, but I just come down to it's good to be aspirational.
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It's vital to be aspirational, but knowing that it's going to take actions, it's going to take effort and intention and follow through.
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Yeah, it's a great distinction that you both make because I guess even implied in the way that I word that question, I think all
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mission vision culture values are aspirational.
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This is who we want to be.
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And yet what can feel dangerous about it is when we, it almost is like make believe it's pretend life.
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We're going to say this is who we are because we wish we were, but we have no intention of actually doing anything or holding anyone accountable to this.
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That feels different.
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And so then you have the, I forget who said it a moment ago, but you have the, a little bit of the eye roll.
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I think Kristen, this was you, the eye roll of people going, oh yeah, that's what we say.
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That's not even, that's what we say.
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That's what they say we are, but we're not.
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And oftentimes, they're not, even though they say we are.
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And therein lies, in my mind, again, that dissonance between actually being clear about what you're committed to – we talk a lot about this in our coaching – being clear about what you're committed to, what you're holding people accountable, what you're going to allow to permeate into the day-to-day operations of who we are as a team,
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And what we're going to put on a poster or what we're going to, you know, give, you know, when someone first starts at our company, we're going to hand them the manual or maybe it's digital now.
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And I just aged myself, but like, you know, we're going to hand them the manual and the, and our cultural values are going to be in there and you're going to read them, but we're never going to actually talk about them.
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We're not going to actually explore the impact of what happens if you live within these or you don't live within these.
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And I'm curious as we continue to kind of push this down the funnel of specificity here around, you know, what does culture mean and how does it impact an organization?
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I'm curious if we can start to look at what's at stake.
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If a culture is, is either a not defined and communicated or B it is defined and communicated, but it's not actually committed to, it's not, it's not true.
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Meaning we're not going to actually do anything about it.
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You have thoughts on, on what's at stake there, or maybe an example of what you've seen.
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I think it's interesting, John, you said this earlier, and David, I think it's connected to the conversation we're having here, starting with specificity around expectations versus agreements.
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And we talk a lot about that in our coaching.
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But oftentimes when there are words, as John has said, that start the discussion around values, there are often then expectations that live in the branding documents or the mind of the leaders that actually don't then get to the place of clearly articulated agreements of those who join a team or an organization.
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And so then I think that starts to create the gap that you talked about, that, you know, then there are the words, there's the intention, maybe hype, you know, some good swag, but there isn't necessarily traction in actually being able to utilize the gift of having clear agreements and commitments, both to individuals in the organization, but also to the vision or to results that a group is up to creating.
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And I think when there are agreements and clear commitments around that, that actually starts to accelerate the beauty of having a culture that is committed and clear and people know, hey, this is what our organization is up to.
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I want to be here because I know that
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I'm committing to this work that's committed to a vision that's committed to creating whatever that might be, a sense of belonging in the organization or bigger results at the end of a quarter or whatever that is.
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And so I think that's a real invitation for those listening today, you know, that are culture shapers.
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And I actually, you know, in my worldview and thinking about leadership, and this is just my own personal opinion, I think everyone is a leader.
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And so wherever you're in a place of influence,
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you have an opportunity to be a culture shaper.
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And so, how are you getting clarity around what the expectations are in an organization?
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You don't have to wait for an executive leadership team to do that.
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You can ask those questions and help to bring clarity so that your culture that may be more implicit can be actually more rooted in agreements that create change.
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David, I'll jump in here with costs.
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I'll look at it two different ways.
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In working with a lot of startup founders, so this is the first time they've ever led or maybe built a company, they're often extremely hardworking, extremely talented, which is interesting when you think about the culture of startups, right?
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Like hard work, long hours, right?
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Go like a lot of grit.
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And often startup founders don't know the importance of culture.
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They probably couldn't define it.
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They've never done it before.
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So then the company often takes the culture becomes
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the attributes of the founder.
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And often that can be very inspiring, but as that company grows, it becomes incredibly limiting because the scaffolding of the company is only as big as the founder.
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So what is often the strength of a startup then becomes the ceiling of a startup.
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And so often the work that we do with startup founders is to start asking about culture, and they don't like that.
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They're like, let's get to work.
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And it's like, no, this is a force multiplier.
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You want this.
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And I think the rubber meets the road when a leader, if they're unwilling to grow, then their culture is limited because their culture is going to be included with all the gaps that they don't want to look for.
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So I'll pause there.
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I've got another one that I want to go to, but I'm curious if anyone has thoughts on that or if they've seen anything like that.
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I have, you know, certainly in I'm thinking of two organizations where we're currently doing work, where in both different kinds of industries, but individual leaders who have grappled with how to articulate culture beyond themselves.
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to even a senior leadership team and then beyond that to an organization.
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And John, to your point, not only has it created a ceiling, but there's also been that ceiling articulated in things like lower morale and, you know, a broken trust because so much of it is wrapped up in, you know, the ability for that leader to be in integrity and showing that trust.
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And that doesn't necessarily always happen or decreased results.
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again, because there isn't clarity for not only a senior leadership team, but for an organization around what are we really up to here?
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And what can we rely on to create results that would be really thrilling for us?
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And so I think you're right, John, even in thinking about this and speaking to
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ahead of an organization I work with, this individual said it was actually through doing work in the coaching environment with us at Novus Global that this individual got a lot more clear around the value of the culture that they wanted to create in the organization and started to be almost surgical
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about ways in which they wanted to model integrity and create vision with their senior leadership team and grow a wider and deeper culture for being seen and having a sense of belonging.
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And so this individual being willing to have a vision for their culture that was worth the wait for them of growing more as an individual, they say, you know, I really credit actually starting with myself
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And as you said, John, some leaders and organizations hire us and they want a silver bullet and they want us to solve all of this.
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But there is some deep work within our own leadership that actually can be the ceiling on creating a culture that has results that would really thrill a team.
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something you both said, because even John, you started with founders and how the founder would be essentially like the characteristics of the founder would be the culture itself.
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Then Shana, you kind of went to corporate.
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And that's where I would say I'm like, whether a startup or huge global Fortune 500 company, like it is a lot of times from the top down or like where you would look for that culture setting.
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And are they modeling it?
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Sometimes I think, Shana, to your point, like there does need to be somebody who goes first.
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I was working with a VP once and they wanted, their aspiration was to be a feedback culture.
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And I was talking with them and essentially they had some complaints about the CEO.
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And I was like, well, have you given them that feedback?
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And he's like, oh, well, no.
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I'm like, okay.
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Well, no problem, but just notice that we're not modeling the culture that we aspire to.
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And so you're modeling something, but it's not modeling what you want to see repeated.
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And they still get to choose whether they do something with that or not, but I often wonder how
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Clueless maybe isn't the right word, but maybe unaware of how people are not feeding into the culture that they want to see happen or the culture that they say that they have.
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I think a lot of times people don't realize what they're living out on a day-to-day basis.
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I love that, Kristen.
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And I also think there may be at times, because especially now,
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you know, based on the economy and things being, you know, people feeling squeezed is how it's occurring to what I'm finding with a lot of leaders right now.
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It's almost like, is there time to work on our culture, you know, because we need to be creating results and we have, you know, stakeholders to report to.
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And it keeps coming back to me, so I'll just quickly share it.
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I think sometimes we forget how clear actually individuals in an organization will have an emotional feeling about a culture, even if it's not stated.
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It's the difference between
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you know, walking into a fine dining restaurant experience where you feel very taken care of and you just walk in and there's just a, have you had that?
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Like just this sense of like, wow, this place is amazing.
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I can't wait to eat here.
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And you've walked into other places and maybe even walked out.
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You're like,
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you know, wouldn't even matter if I gave my money here.
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And so I actually think there's a broader piece in this culture conversation around the impact of not addressing culture.
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You know, individuals not wanting to, you may lose some of your best
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assets in the organization.
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You may lose, you know, think time and creating results because individuals are weighed down by not having clarity around things like honest feedback or feeling they can trust an individual with an idea.
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So people are then in silos.
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And so that's weighing down the creation of results.
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So I think there is a way also to see a vibrant culture as a culture where
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there is trust that conversations are happening quickly, that there is feedback, that there is a way that we love to say, you know, in worlds where we train, like you actually are getting more done in less time.
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And I think that's, you know, an important aspect to bring in at the 600,000 foot view of the impact of culture.
SPEAKER_04:
Hi, my name is Mike Park, and I'm a proud graduate of the Metta Performance Institute for Coaching.
SPEAKER_04:
The faculty of the Metta Performance Institute not only provided the training, tools, and experience to learn how to coach people toward powerful growth and thrilling results, but also advocated for that kind of growth and results in my own life.
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unique opportunity to have world-class executive coaches invest in my development both professionally and personally.
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It's a privilege to be part of a tribe of coaches fiercely committed to exploring what we are capable of together.
SPEAKER_04:
If you're looking to become a coach or to set up your coaching practice to reach the next level, I highly recommend the certification from the Meta Performance Institute for Coaching.
SPEAKER_04:
To fill out a free assessment of your abilities as a coach and to connect with someone to find out if the Meta Performance Institute is for you, check out www.mp.institute.
SPEAKER_07:
There's a lot of practical tips that have been said and I don't want them to get lost.
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And I'm thinking about just us as coaches, when we hop on that first call with a leader, often we say, you know, great, what do you want?
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Or what complaints do you have?
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And they immediately move to strategic, tactical, right?
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And I want this, I want this, I want more of this.
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And then how often do we just say, what's your culture like?
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What do you want your culture to be like?
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And how often they go, we don't have time for that, right?
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And that's an interesting mark.
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And so even if you're a leader listening to this,
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Are you aware of the culture that you're intentionally building or unintentionally building?
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And then have you ever paused to write down, don't just think about it, write down, what is the intentional culture that you would love to build?
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And what would that mean for your company?
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What would that mean for your family?
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That's a practical tip.
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One other practical tip, Shauna, is, I mean, you did a great job explaining it, as individuals, you know, if we're followers and we're following leaders, we often feel like we're held
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So, you know, whatever they decide or whatever culture.
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And I thought you did such a good job explaining ownership, right?
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At any level, if you if you manage a project, if you manage this, build a culture around it.
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What do you want the project?
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And often.
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Leaders will see that, or if you want leaders to see that, say, hey, I'm going to approach this project or this mini team, and I'm going to build my culture around that.
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At Novus Global, we have a lot of mini teams, and it's fascinating to watch even the mini cultures as different leaders lead things differently and how we learn from each other and that.
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So just a few practical tips if you want to create value for yourself out of listening to this.
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That's what we love.
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We love it when people take what we say and then create practical value in the world.
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Yeah, I love as you talk about ownership and as that's become a piece of this conversation, because I'm recently working with a team.
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Now, this is a, an international company, you know, headquarters in another country.
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We're working with a lot of other U.S.
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operations.
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As I've been in a coaching relationship with one of their managers, the conversation started, well, if
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let's say the mothership.
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If the mothership would let me, I would do this.
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If the powers that be also thought this, wouldn't that be great?
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And, you know, sometimes as coaches, I'll let them sit in that for a moment, right?
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We have this phrase, like, you know, a complaint is a latent vision.
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And so I'm
SPEAKER_05:
Yeah, bring it, you know, bring some complaints our way.
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And that's that's fine.
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You can tell me about how you wish everyone else was.
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And then we start we kind of we get under the bar a little bit and started talking with this leader and saying, well, you're leading a team.
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What is the culture of the specific team that you're leading?
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And is there a way for you to create culture on that team that almost makes other team members and then going up the chain wish they were a part of what you've built?
SPEAKER_05:
Like, can you show it?
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Because a lot of times words don't land change, right?
SPEAKER_05:
Words don't evoke change.
SPEAKER_05:
It's actually like, show me what you mean.
SPEAKER_05:
and why it could be better or, or effective for us to continue to move that direction.
SPEAKER_05:
And so what's been really fun with this leader is there's some phrasing that we'll use and I'll say, you know, cause people will move from team to team within that organization.
SPEAKER_05:
I asked him, what would happen if you created a culture that the best and the brightest couldn't imagine leaving your team?
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What would happen if you created a culture on your team where, where some of the best and brightest in the organization wished that they were on your team, they were vying to be on your team.
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What would that do?
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And how would it influence some of the other leaders that are able to watch what's happening?
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And then from there, what would happen as, as this particular headquarters starts to produce in a brand new way and it starts to influence other pieces of the organization all the way up to.
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the decision makers and the people that will ultimately decide what some of the cultural aspects will be.
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And I don't know for you if you've experienced some of that with any of your clients or maybe even what you do.
SPEAKER_05:
John, I would actually would love to acknowledge you.
SPEAKER_05:
Even in Novus Global's culture, we talk so much about feedback.
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We talk so much about, like, we want to have that as a culture.
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And compared to other organizations, we do.
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But compared to what we're aspirationally aiming at, you've actually been a huge proponent of being someone in in the company that's not leading the company.
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You have leadership, but someone in the organization that is constantly bringing us back to, hey, we're a feedback culture.
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Let's let's model it.
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Let's live in it.
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Let's continue to do it.
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You ask questions around it all the time.
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I'm curious and I'm putting on the spot because I didn't tell you I was going to ask this, but I'm curious, John, like about your experience
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being kind of a little bit of that catalytic leader, but not from like the CEO seat.
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What's that been like and what were some of the learnings you've had?
SPEAKER_07:
Well, first off, I'll say.
SPEAKER_07:
Truly my favorite thing about Novus Global is that the culture and our values, we'll probably talk about our values later, we get to work at a company where the culture, I can say this for myself, makes me a better person.
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My primary reason for being in this community is that I can't wait to who I'm going to be five years from now and everyone working here
SPEAKER_07:
depending on how long you've worked with me, you've gotten to see that transformation.
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And I guess that's why the aspirational culture is so important.
SPEAKER_07:
It's not really to get right.
SPEAKER_07:
It's something to be in progress towards.
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We use the gym metaphor.
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It's the weight to continually lift every day.
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I think I would say our culture is it's near and dear to my heart.
SPEAKER_07:
It's sacred almost.
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And I think David, the
SPEAKER_07:
I think why I take it so seriously is the minute that our stated culture, our stated words depart from actions, trust goes down for me.
SPEAKER_07:
I might not trust my peers, I might not trust my co-workers, I might not trust leadership.
SPEAKER_07:
And not from an accusatory way, there probably is some of that in there, but more from a sadness, because I really care about our vision and I want us to achieve it.
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We were talking about costs, and I would use the word misalignment.
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When our stated culture is out of our actions day to day, I think the cost is trust, and I think we're out of integrity.
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And that's okay.
SPEAKER_07:
That will happen.
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If you're a company that has an aspirational culture and vision, it's not if, it's when you get out of alignment.
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And then who do we choose to be in that moment?
SPEAKER_07:
And I love it when others call me back into alignment of our values and culture.
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And it's a very courageous thing.
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I really appreciate you pointing it out.
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It's something that is really important to me and it's, it's, I'm glad it's valued at our company.
SPEAKER_06:
When I think about companies not having someone like John in the company, where they don't have someone kind of realigning back to the culture, what they say they want the culture to be, and calling people forward on maybe misusing it or it's never talked about again, essentially, then you're leaving it up in the air to what everybody's opinion is on what the culture is supposed to be.
SPEAKER_06:
So we all have different perspectives on things.
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We all have different opinions on things.
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And so if there's nobody actually talking about it or calling attention to it, then everybody's just going to go on their merry way, doing whatever they think is what fits into that.
SPEAKER_06:
And when it's all different, then it gets extra confusing, and there's more misalignment that's created.
SPEAKER_06:
And then if nobody ever does anything about it, then that's when I think apathy sets in, where it's like, well, nobody cares about this anyway.
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So
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Why should I try and be any different?
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Or that's when we hear that, well, it is what it is, or this is just the way we are.
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And those kind of phrases pop up a lot to where people don't even want to try anymore to do anything different about it.
SPEAKER_06:
And then there's a lot of resentment that can come with that, too.
SPEAKER_05:
Kristen, you said something that I think is leading me down a path here and it aligns with John, your scaffolding metaphor.
SPEAKER_05:
There was a season that I was working for a staffing firm and we would do staffing and coaching for organizations all over the US.
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And a notice that I had was that oftentimes we can be in the hiring process, we can be blinded by talent.
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you know, blinded with the experience that someone's coming in with, the skill someone might be coming in with.
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And in the instances where I would be working with a team where they had huge goals and aspirations, but their culture wasn't clear, it was very easy to hire someone based on, again, the talent that is perceived of them coming in.
SPEAKER_05:
But that person can come in
SPEAKER_05:
Like a wrecking ball, you know, like they kind of bull in a China shop metaphor rings.
SPEAKER_05:
So true because they come in with, with all of their past, right?
SPEAKER_05:
How it occurs to them.
SPEAKER_05:
Um, Kristen, from the last organization they were with, what they liked about it, what they didn't like about it, what they would have done if they could have.
SPEAKER_05:
And now they're coming into your organization with all of these preconceived notions, with all of these expectations without agreements to Shauna's point.
SPEAKER_05:
And, and it's so easy for that to become a destructive force.
SPEAKER_05:
with lack of culture, and then for that new hire to actually bring the fullness of who they are into your team, onto your organization, and to make an impact to move things forward.
SPEAKER_05:
Because the momentum they're coming with, it's almost like the force that they're coming in with is opposite.
SPEAKER_05:
Like you're going one way and they're going the other, and you're going with equal amount of velocity, and it just becomes a car crash.
SPEAKER_05:
And I'm curious, when I think about
SPEAKER_05:
You know, when we talk about startup founders, as we talk about organizations, as they grow, this idea of scaffolding just continues to matter so much because, um, the larger an organization gets, this is my experience.
SPEAKER_05:
And I'd be curious, you take the larger an organization gets, the more crucial.
SPEAKER_05:
A clear and communicated culture is.
SPEAKER_05:
because you're getting further and further away from, let's call it the CEO or the founder, the nucleus of where things are coming from.
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As you get further and further away, the communication of that matters so much.
SPEAKER_05:
And so I'm curious maybe where we've seen cultural alignment start to drift because of lack of communication.
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It's clear.
SPEAKER_05:
It's on the poster.
SPEAKER_05:
It's in the intro guide when you join the team.
SPEAKER_05:
But it's not talked about, it's not measured and moved toward.
SPEAKER_05:
And so individual contributors just start to drift into their own, whatever in their mind they think they should be doing.
SPEAKER_05:
That land of shoulds that we talk about so often.
SPEAKER_05:
So have you had experience or what, like, what does that spark for you as you hear a little bit about that new hire coming onto the team and what it means for them?
SPEAKER_07:
When I think about a new hire, I often think about what if you didn't tell them at all about your culture and they worked there and after a month, what would they say the culture is?
SPEAKER_07:
I'd like to me, that's just because I think about your culture is your repeated actions.
SPEAKER_07:
And so even thinking about Novus Global, I can tell people the words, but more importantly than the words, I can tell them the practices that embody the words.
SPEAKER_07:
And then those practices are beautiful because I can look at the team and I can see if we're doing them or not.
SPEAKER_07:
How refreshing is it to be able to measure something so that we don't all have to just live off of our opinions of what's happening because we know humans default to our own opinions and that we love being right.
SPEAKER_07:
And so you should probably tell new hires what your culture is.
SPEAKER_07:
That should probably be talked about a lot in the interview process.
SPEAKER_07:
But especially if you're thinking about going, if you're a leader moving to a new organization,
SPEAKER_07:
think asking about their culture, asking about what actions and practices they have that connects to that.
SPEAKER_07:
That's my thought on that.
SPEAKER_05:
I like the image that you just put out there because I'm thinking of almost like an alien coming to earth and observing culture.
SPEAKER_05:
I was watching something the other day and they were like, how would you explain a yo-yo to someone that doesn't understand it?
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How would you explain some of the cultural things that we do to someone that walks in and doesn't have any context for it?
SPEAKER_05:
So that image is so interesting.
SPEAKER_05:
There is this idea for me of, as we expand, you know, you talk about the idea of a force multiplier, as we grow, which is what most companies are wanting to do, to avoid the intentional practice of
SPEAKER_05:
communicating culture, to avoid the intentional practice of hiring based on culture, to avoid whether you're avoiding it because of lack of clarity or you're avoiding it because you don't want to have an uncomfortable conversation or you're avoiding it because you can fill in the blanks around it.
SPEAKER_05:
It allows there to be so much interpretation based on, again, the past experience of that individual rather than the leadership that you provide.
SPEAKER_05:
Shauna, I'd love to hear like a little of where, like, what are you hearing and what have you seen?
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What have you seen when it comes to some of these organizations that we work with?
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You've worked with some really incredible teams and leaders.
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And I'm so curious from your perspective, where you've seen them thrive in the communication and the intentional communication of their culture and where you've seen maybe some avoidance around that.
SPEAKER_03:
I think it's really an interesting journey to go back to where john was saying at the hiring process, you know, it can be very tempting to hire based on some really good.
SPEAKER_03:
indicators like results, like the ability to perform in an interview.
SPEAKER_03:
And what I've seen repeated in many different organizations is a lack of actually articulating clear cultural fit for an individual.
SPEAKER_03:
And so you might think you have
SPEAKER_03:
90% of it figured out in the interview.
SPEAKER_03:
You've got good recommendations, resume strong, you know, this person creates results.
SPEAKER_03:
And yet there's a significant portion left off the table around, will this individual be a fit in alignment to the culture that's been created?
SPEAKER_03:
Or even the culture that the organization wants to grow into, like is not quite there yet, but is actively wanting to create together.
SPEAKER_03:
So I think it's really important for those listening that are thinking about expansion and hiring to really sit through what are the key aspects of the culture that we want to keep creating and how can we start asking questions and build questions in into the job description and even right into the vetting and the interview process for individuals to really look at fit.
SPEAKER_03:
Because as you said, once the individual joins the organization, and I've also seen the other side of this, you can have someone who's really great at sales and creating good results that absolutely creates a really challenging culture to work in.
SPEAKER_03:
A team that doesn't feel empowered.
SPEAKER_03:
Trust gets broken quickly.
SPEAKER_03:
We talk a lot about integrity in our work.
SPEAKER_03:
A leader that is out of alignment and integrity doesn't do what they say they're going to do by when they're going to do it, doesn't clean up the mess.
SPEAKER_03:
And so I've also seen leaders really grapple down the road after a hire to say, oh my goodness, this person may have led a national sales
SPEAKER_03:
But our organization is actually, you know, the teams aren't thriving.
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We're not creating the results that we want to be creating.
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And now we're left with some really difficult conversations that need to happen and potentially an individual that really doesn't fit in the organization.
SPEAKER_03:
And so that then, you know, then you've got another resource challenge.
SPEAKER_03:
You've got to put resources now up against
SPEAKER_03:
those conversations and probably getting human resources involved.
SPEAKER_03:
And again, you're not moving towards what you hope to.
SPEAKER_03:
So again, this idea for individuals in this conversation with us is really getting clear on what is the culture that you want to be creating and how clear are you that at every interaction you have from hiring to onboarding
SPEAKER_03:
to creating the climate, the day-to-day practices in the organization.
SPEAKER_03:
I think that's really important.
SPEAKER_03:
And my last piece I would just say also is culture is communal.
SPEAKER_03:
So it isn't, as we've said, it isn't just that a senior leadership team is clear on the culture.
SPEAKER_03:
It's that from the individual, you know, dropping off the mail at the office, to the person greeting you at the door, to your account executives, all the way up to your senior leadership team,
SPEAKER_03:
Get clear on people's experience in your organization because they are the ones right now that are shaping your culture.
SPEAKER_03:
And sometimes there's such a disconnect.
SPEAKER_03:
you know, with the individual's experience in an organization.
SPEAKER_03:
And that's why things really practically like surveys, the ability to bring someone in and actually look at and have conversations with individuals around culture can not only uncover gaps that you have, but actually create really powerful bridges to increasing your results and what you get to do as a community together.
SPEAKER_02:
What if one call could change what you once thought was impossible into a reality?
SPEAKER_02:
Novus Global is offering you an exploration call with one of their world-class coaches to explore what you as a leader and your team are capable of.
SPEAKER_02:
Novus Global is an elite executive coaching firm that works with multi-billion dollar companies, professional athletes, nonprofit leaders, and faith in government, all to create teams, companies, and communities that go beyond high performance.
SPEAKER_02:
Book your call right now.
SPEAKER_02:
Just go to novice.global forward slash now.
SPEAKER_07:
As Shauna was talking, it made me think about we've talked this whole episode on what it takes to build a healthy aspirational culture.
SPEAKER_07:
It only takes one person to tear it down.
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That's a very interesting thing.
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And as you're as you're thinking about how long do you keep somebody around?
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These are the uncomfortable decisions of a leader.
SPEAKER_07:
But it's so interesting that skill and the ability to get results will that we love promoting that, right?
SPEAKER_07:
We oh, yes, yes.
SPEAKER_07:
And often people get into leadership positions and they've never had to build culture.
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They've never had to think about it.
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It's like their skill has gotten them there.
SPEAKER_07:
And I think that's actually why we end up with a lot of, call it whatever you want, unhealthy, toxic, non-resourceful cultures is they probably don't know how.
SPEAKER_07:
And so here you have this very skilled leader who doesn't know how to do that.
SPEAKER_07:
That's a very vulnerable position to be in.
SPEAKER_07:
And as coaches, we come across a lot of those, right?
SPEAKER_07:
And then it's the billion, billion dollar question is what do you want to do about it?
SPEAKER_07:
Would you like to grow and learn or would you like to stay committed to being right?
SPEAKER_07:
And I think thankfully we get a lot of people who
SPEAKER_07:
who want to step into the growth and get uncomfortable again.
SPEAKER_07:
And it feels so awkward, but they step into it.
SPEAKER_05:
Someone far, far smarter than I am coined the phrase when thinking about culture, the idea of higher slowly and fire fast.
SPEAKER_05:
And that is something that I, in my experience, have not seen many cultures ascribe to where
SPEAKER_05:
you know we have an open position we must fill it and rather than again letting culture dictate more than past experience more than even the skill that someone brings in those things matter mind you that's not to throw those out but to allow culture to be the driving force of who fits and who doesn't in the hiring process and then to be able and willing even like like have a little bit of a
SPEAKER_05:
Like a little dogmatic around are like this person might be a very kind person.
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This person can be incredibly skilled.
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They can make our company money.
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They can, you know, again, be likable.
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But if they don't fit our culture, they don't fit here.
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And that is what you're saying, John.
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Would you rather be comfortable and not have to have that conversation, or would you actually intentionally walk toward the discomfort?
SPEAKER_05:
There's a whole book series called Run to the Pain.
SPEAKER_05:
Are you willing to run to the pain
SPEAKER_05:
Of i like you but you don't fit like you're doing the job but you don't fit the culture whatever that that would be.
SPEAKER_05:
And i i love that you know at novice were in a hiring process and there are days that i go are we can we just.
SPEAKER_05:
All the trigger right i can we just make this higher and we have some incredible candidates like this one can i just choose one.
SPEAKER_05:
and will allow in my own kind of anxious energy around it sometimes go, well, wait, fit actually does matter most.
SPEAKER_05:
If this individual who's incredibly talented doesn't fit our culture, we're actually gonna be taking steps backward instead of forward.
SPEAKER_05:
And so I'd love to move us into, we've talked a little bit now about the culture of Novus Global.
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And I'm with you, John.
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It is one of my favorite.
SPEAKER_05:
It's what brought me in was to go, OK, I want this.
SPEAKER_05:
The thing that we're talking about here, I want this in the team, in the company that I work with.
SPEAKER_05:
I'm curious, Kristen, would you give us a little bit of an overview of our values and culture?
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And then I'd love for us to banter a little here on how are we communicating it?
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What are some of the things that we're doing?
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learning, you know, we're trying and practicing, but maybe it would be useful to a listener to kind of hear some of the ways that we hold our culture up.
SPEAKER_06:
As far as our culture, because I'm with you, as soon as I came in, I'm like, there is something different here and I want in.
SPEAKER_06:
But one of the big pieces is, so our values, if you were to, based on our conversation, put them on a poster.
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are, they spell an acronym, so go live, it's growth, ownership, love, integrity, vision, and energy.
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And I can honestly say everything we do revolves around those six things.
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We talk about them every single week on our weekly calls.
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We dive into what they mean to us.
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We are checking in when we give feedback.
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They're often aligned to those six values.
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I actually even talk about them when I onboard a new client.
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I let them know, hey, this is what we are about.
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This is what will come out in the coaching work.
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This is what all of my questions are rooted in.
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I am constantly putting that forward and letting people know what they are joining, what they are becoming a part of.
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And so it's fun to see us live that out.
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And I will even say, like, see different people live it out in slightly nuanced ways, because I think it gets a glimpse into who they are.
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But it still ties back to what we as a community and as the culture that we aspire to have laid out.
SPEAKER_05:
One of the things that I love is that, again, we don't stop with the poster, and you're right on that, you know, Kristen, it's, you know, here are the values.
SPEAKER_05:
And then, as you mentioned, well, like every Wednesday, as of right now, everyone from our organization, from all over the world, gets together, you know, for a 90-minute, and I would actually say more than even a training, this is where we talk about and lean into our culture.
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And as a part of it, we will acknowledge other people within the organization based on our culture.
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We would do again, we do some training and some skill development around our culture.
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But every single time we have a what we're just calling the go live moment where someone from the team and it kind of rotates through.
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someone from the team will take a moment and talk about one or sometimes two or three of our values and how they've seen them live out and how those values have affected them in this season.
SPEAKER_05:
And I've really enjoyed that time, especially when I first joined, because it was a sense of, and the word that I would use here is enculturation, right?
SPEAKER_05:
So when I was new to Novus Global,
SPEAKER_05:
Some of our words, you just said a bunch of words there, Kristen, that most people have their own definitions to.
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Not everyone defines love the way that Novus Global defines love.
SPEAKER_05:
That seems to be one that we'll see, oh, that's a little bit, your definition and our definition is a little bit different.
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What I've enjoyed is
SPEAKER_05:
especially when someone new will be the person that does the go-live moment there and share that go-live value, there have been times where they'll say, hey, today I wanna talk about love, and then they'll talk about love, and then on the back end of it, they'll get a bunch of very kind and loving, on our definition of love, messages or moments where we'll say, hey, that was really awesome, what you said was great, it wasn't necessarily our definition,
SPEAKER_05:
of that value.
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And by creating space for people to not only hear often what our values are or see often what our values are, but they get to articulate them in a group setting has been very, very powerful for the people that I've talked to.
SPEAKER_05:
It was very powerful for me coming onto the team.
SPEAKER_05:
I'm curious, are there other ways that you've experienced our culture at Novus Global and the ways that we enculturate it as useful or powerful to you?
SPEAKER_06:
Well, I'll throw out another one.
SPEAKER_06:
Well, just because I had alluded to how when I first got here, I was like, oh, man, there's something different here.
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I think my very first Wednesday group call, John, it may have even been you on the call with somebody else is like, hey, can I give you some feedback?
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And the feedback happened publicly for everyone to see.
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And at first I was like, oh, my gosh, because my previous filters, right, like the kind of standard
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I'd say more average way of people relating to feedback was coming in fresh.
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And it was like, I can't believe this conversation is about to happen right now.
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But then when I watched it play out, yeah, conflict, but it wasn't.
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And I think that's what was so beautiful is I'm like, they are modeling a feedback culture in a very healthy way where I could feel the love, I could feel the fierce advocacy.
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And I was like, there's something different about this.
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And I don't get it yet.
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I don't know what it is yet, but I'm drawn in and I want to be a part of it.
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And there was like an enrollment that I had as I watched it being modeled real time.
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So I think it's the living it out piece that really and we've talked about that.
SPEAKER_06:
It's like it's the actions more than the words that really have the power to it.
SPEAKER_07:
I think those actions provide the sobriety, right?
SPEAKER_07:
They provide the sobriety to know where we're actually at.
SPEAKER_07:
And I'll shout out Nova's global CEO, Jason Jaggard, who I consider the architect of the Go Live values.
SPEAKER_07:
And I highly recommend the book, Beyond High Performance.
SPEAKER_07:
Get in there, dig around there.
SPEAKER_07:
If you're looking to build a culture, that is probably the best resource for you.
SPEAKER_07:
But I talked to so many people that want to build growth cultures.
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Right?
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Growth cultures.
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I think the deepest, I don't just think it, we do, you know, we believe at Novus Global that the deepest fulfillment in life comes from growth, not comfort.
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And I think that is truly one of the most valuable questions, right?
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How do you build a growth culture?
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And then I love how all of our values piece into that.
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And I think that's, that's what I always go back to because I
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Before Novus Global, I was a prototypical high performer.
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Throw me in any situation.
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How do I be the best?
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What do I say?
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How do I look good?
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Which are great things, but it holds you back from the next level, the next level, the next level in life, in parenting, in marriage, in leadership.
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And so I have such a soft spot for the best.
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I have such a soft spot for those leaders at companies that are the best at what they do.
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but they are so stuck and they don't know what to do.
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And then I think a good culture unlocks the next level of performance.
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And I'm, you know, I've gone through it, right?
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I think that's probably why I love our culture so much because it probably saved me from a life of complaining, regret, probably not being able to work with others.
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Like, I think a good culture allows the best of the best to work with each other.
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I think you see that a lot in sports.
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A good culture in sports is where the best of the best come and go, oh, that's not enough just to have the skill.
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Now I have to learn how to harness everyone else's skill and make them better.
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And how do I do that when it's not through skill, it's through leadership?
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And countless times throughout, year after year, you see these championship teams and often there's a story written about the culture, the locker room culture, what was built there, where did it come from?
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And at Novus Global Sport, which Tristan's a part of and myself, that's led by Dan Leffler.
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This is a huge push right now to redefine what a meta performance culture looks like in sports.
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And we're grateful to have that opportunity.
SPEAKER_05:
As we wrap up our time, I've loved this conversation.
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Incredibly grateful to each of you.
SPEAKER_05:
I want to just have a little moment here where you can share maybe a final thought.
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And so if we went around and everyone just kind of shared like, hey, as we think about culture, as we have listeners that are maybe they are the decision maker, maybe they are within a culture and they're trying to figure out what ownership looks like within someone else's culture.
SPEAKER_05:
What's maybe a final thought that we would leave our listeners with?
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And I'd love I'll kind of put us on the spot here together.
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I'd love to start off with Shana.
SPEAKER_03:
This has been such a, there's so much in this conversation.
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I want to keep going.
SPEAKER_03:
And so just thinking to practically land the plane here, for those listening who, you know, may be really drawn to this conversation, but perhaps at this point are saying, what do I do now?
SPEAKER_03:
Maybe either feeling stuck in the creation of culture or in a culture that perhaps is not the place that they had hoped.
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Be encouraged, you know, as some of the TILT work, which is a great training tool we do some work with as well, talks about the fact that you can shift culture.
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Culture develops over time, but you can shift culture, and they refer to it as climate.
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That within weeks of looking internally in your organization and starting to look at the habits and beliefs of the people that are in your organization, you can start to create a shift.
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So change is possible.
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It is not too late.
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to create a renewed vision for what culture can look like in the organization.
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And you can be a part of that change.
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And that can start within your own willingness to put your hand up and say, I want to grow.
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Like, what is it in me?
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How am I perhaps contributing
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to where the culture is now.
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If you are the CEO or in the senior leadership team, perhaps you're going to raise your hand up and say, I want to grow more.
SPEAKER_03:
How can I do that?
SPEAKER_03:
Find a coach, have a conversation with someone about some of your gaps.
SPEAKER_03:
Start that conversation.
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if you're not at that level of the organization, have that conversation with someone who supports you in the organization and look at, in your sphere of influence, how can you shift the culture on your team?
SPEAKER_03:
And what can be possible for you by the end of this calendar year or into 2024?
SPEAKER_03:
So I wanna leave this conversation with some of those very practical pieces that say it can start with you and change as possible.
SPEAKER_05:
That's good.
SPEAKER_05:
Kristen, final thought?
SPEAKER_06:
I'll reiterate the potential of be willing to go first.
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So whether you are like kind of low man on the totem pole type thing, you can, to Shauna's point, begin to make a difference.
SPEAKER_06:
Or almost especially if you're a CEO or president or a top rung, like if you are realizing through our conversation that you are not living out our culture,
SPEAKER_06:
No problem.
SPEAKER_06:
Are you willing to admit it?
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Because trust me, when you are and you can pause and say, hey, very aware that we are not living this out, but we want to be right then and there, you are going to start to build trust with people because it is broken.
SPEAKER_06:
It is broken if you are not living it out, so you might as well start building it back up.
SPEAKER_06:
So if you're willing to go first and admit where you are, then great.
SPEAKER_06:
You're like at the starting line now, and you can begin to create a strategy around working towards that vision or the aspiration of what you want to create in your world.
SPEAKER_07:
I think my final thought
SPEAKER_07:
I'm going to be pretty prescriptive, so feel free to do it or don't.
SPEAKER_07:
Get the book.
SPEAKER_07:
Get Beyond High Performance.
SPEAKER_07:
Dive into that.
SPEAKER_07:
I think it's one of my favorite gifts to give people now because how they can change their life and what they can take away with it is just so rich.
SPEAKER_07:
Get the book, read it.
SPEAKER_07:
If you can find my email, I'm sure you can go on the website, find my email, I'll send you the book.
SPEAKER_07:
So I'd love to get requests on send me a book, get the book, read it, and then do something with it, right?
SPEAKER_07:
Do the uncomfortable next step.
SPEAKER_07:
Talk to somebody, Sean, I love that.
SPEAKER_07:
Talk to a coach, get intentional about the culture that you're building, because if you're not, and whatever subconscious stuff is happening, that's, that's what's building.
SPEAKER_07:
So, um, yeah, be intentional with your actions.
SPEAKER_05:
That's great.
SPEAKER_05:
Kristen, John, Shana, thank you so much for being a part of this conversation.
SPEAKER_05:
I know that it is useful to those that are listening.
SPEAKER_05:
And if you are listening, reach out to Novus Global with some of the questions and thoughts that you have as you listen to this episode.
SPEAKER_05:
We would love to learn from you.
SPEAKER_05:
our listeners and hear from you.
SPEAKER_05:
What is it that maybe we didn't talk about today that we can make another episode about regarding culture or alignment?
SPEAKER_05:
When you think about your specific culture, maybe it's time to get an outside perspective, have someone that can hold space for you as you process what is next, whether within the context you're currently in or moving toward a culture you want to have.
SPEAKER_05:
We appreciate you listening and we will catch you next time.
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There we have free assessments to help you see what kind of training you need to create the coaching practice the way our coaches do at Nova
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And finally, and for some of you, this will be the most important part.
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This podcast was produced by Rainbow Creative with Matthew Jones as Senior Producer, Steven Selnick as Producer, and editors and auto engineers, Drew McPowell and Jeremy Davidson.
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And remember, dare to go beyond high performance.