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Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes are normally around 90 minutes long and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.
The podcast features seven members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Grinder and Bam Bam.
This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.
Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
**Gizmo:** [00:00:00] Welcome to the Lounge Lizards podcast presented by Fabrica 5. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love of premium cigars, as well as whiskey travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo. Tonight I'm joined by Rooster, Senator, Pagoda, and Chef Ricky, and our plan is to smoke a cigar, drink some scotch, talk about life, and of course, have some laughs.
So take this as your 144th official invitation to join us and become a card carrying lounge lizard. Plan to meet us here once a week. We're going to smoke a new world cigar tonight, share our thoughts on it, and give you our formal lizard rating. We discuss the long history of the Byron name and the story of its renaissance.
Senator reviews Bigg's Mansion cigar lounge in Chicago, and we share some listener email, all among a variety of other things for the next two hours. So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar and enjoy. As we pair 14 year old, the Balvenie curious casks, American bourbon barrel scotch with the Byron 21st century in elegance, a Toro extra tonight out of Costa Rica.[00:01:00]
It's called the Byron 21st century in Alejandro and it's a 55 ring gauge cigar by six and one eighths inches long. And boys, I think the narrative that I don't bring in big cigars. Is officially squashed today.
**Rooster:** I don't think one
**Gizmo:** episode
**Rooster:** is going to do
**Pagoda:** it. I agree. I agree. And we haven't started smoking it yet, buddy.
**Gizmo:** That's true. We
**Pagoda:** could always
**Gizmo:** change
**Senator:** course. One small
**Gizmo:** step for man, one giant step for
**Senator:** gizmo.
**Gizmo:** So this cigar is a sister to. The Atabay line, uh, comes from the same manufacturer. We'll talk about that in a little bit, but this is the second cigar we've done from Selected Tobacco S. A. And if you look at the footband on the Cigar Boys, that's what the footband is notating, celebrating really, is Selected Tobacco, the brand.
Company that manufactures these cigars in costa rica. So they have a pretty interesting history interesting story We'll get into that [00:02:00] and a lot of other things boys. But first let's cut this thing
**Rooster:** Mine says rp on it. Oh,
**Gizmo:** I gave you a different one.
**Rooster:** Did you give me a rocky?
**Pagoda:** You've been zenoed again buddy
**Gizmo:** Getting used to it. So the wrapper on this is very aromatic Like when I took it out of the weird, it was in a weird cellophane with the foot open, which I kind of liked, but, um, when you took it out, I immediately got hit with a really strong, like almost like a, I want to say almost like a little bit of a manure type of aroma.
Lots of barnyard. A lot of barnyard.
My draw is wide open. I just took a little bit off. Same. It almost looks like I punched it. What's wrong? Nothing.
**Senator:** Just the, the head is falling apart a little bit. Do you want another
**Gizmo:** one? I have others. No, I'll survive it. Okay. What do you guys get on the cold draw?
**Chef Ricky:** Doesn't happen with smaller cigars.[00:03:00]
**Pagoda:** This is the perfect size, by the way.
**Gizmo:** Cold draw is fantastic. Yeah, barnyard, sweet, creamy, creamy,
**Pagoda:** sweet and creamy.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys, let's light this thing. The Byron 21st Century in El Ejantis. Again, it's a 55 ring gauge cigar by 6 18 inches long. Comes in two other sizes in the line. And apparently the tobacco, according to the second band on this, says it's four years aged.
But things that Brewster and I were seeing online, it could be up to six years aged. So we shall see how this performs tonight. So these cigars are very expensive boys. I think we got them for about 33 bucks, but I've seen them upwards of 40. It's some retailers online. You could buy singles obviously, which we did.
We bought eight singles. But a box of these, a [00:04:00] box of 25 is almost a thousand bucks.
**Rooster:** Yeah. 9. 25. Yeah. Pretty expensive. But you know what? Who has a great price on these? Atlantic. Yeah. They come out to 29. 60. That's, that's a big, big difference. That's a big deal. Yeah. You
**Senator:** smoked
**Rooster:** this before? I haven't, but when he sent it today, I was like, what is this cigar?
I mean, I've heard of Byron, but I thought they were, uh, Not a very high priced cigars, but when I looked it up, I mean, the first review, I, I looked and it was, the guy gave it a hundred and saying, I've never, you know, for a cigar, that's, you know, new world and fairly new, not very popular. I mean, to get a, get a hundred, I mean, he, he loved it.
I've never heard of
**Pagoda:** it. Stutter. Well, I've heard of it
**Chef Ricky:** somewhat, but I have to say holding it in hand, it does. Didn't necessarily give off, you know, 40 a stick vibes. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** What are you guys [00:05:00] getting on the, uh, on the light here?
**Senator:** I'm still lighting mine. This thing takes a lot. Geez.
**Gizmo:** I'm getting great smoke output over here.
Creamy flavor, creamy,
**Pagoda:** buttery,
**Gizmo:** creamy. Yeah. Butter is
**Chef Ricky:** a good word. Almost like a salted butter. I'm getting some salty lactic notes, but that's about it. I'm not getting a whole lot more. Uh, this is probably one of those episodes where I miss the dried fruit or I miss some of those fruitier notes. Be interesting to see how it changes right now.
It's. pretty much creamy lactic salt, fairly light too.
**Rooster:** It is
**Gizmo:** very
**Rooster:** light. Yeah. I would say it's mild. I mean, right now it does remind you of an Adobe, right? It kind of like so mild in that, that sense that kind of just like an Adobe.
**Pagoda:** I hope it doesn't finish like an Adobe. Because I, I, I remember it was, I don't even remember what the rating was.
It didn't do too well. It didn't do too well. It was very pricey. And yeah.
**Rooster:** And that [00:06:00] was the Adobe. Uh,
**Gizmo:** Lance
**Rooster:** Lancero.
**Gizmo:** No, that was a Robusta. Robusta. Yeah. We did the Brujos Robusta. I pulled that rating. We'll talk about it a little later after we rate this one. We'll compare. Uh, but yeah, it did not do well to say the least.
**Pagoda:** Look at the smoke output on this. It's fantastic.
**Chef Ricky:** Smoke output's great. But,
**Gizmo:** yeah.
**Pagoda:** It's the beauty of a big ring gained cigar.
**Gizmo:** You were telling us about an anecdote about your uncle before we came on air, and I would love for you to tell that.
**Chef Ricky:** Yeah, sure. My, my uncle Jimmy, he's um, you know, we, I grew up watching him and my other uncle Phil smoke.
These guys are funny, you know, they convinced their wives that we were all gonna go running around the reservoir. And, you know, we do one trip around maybe a little less than a mile and then they sit down and start smoking their cigar and me and my cousin would just kind of sit off on the side and play games or watch them smoke or listen to them smoke.
Sometimes it was the Yankee game, but that was sort of my some of my first memories with cigars. Um, But to this day, [00:07:00] he still smokes very large cigars and because of, you know, the influence the podcast has had on me and just the, the journey that you guys have been on with the smaller ring gauge sticks.
Uh, a lot of my recent purchases have been that, but they're super delicious. Uh, and I recently saw him at a, a graduation party, pull out a stick. I happen to have the Davidoff Balacoso, Churchill Balacoso on me. Uh, pull it out, give them one. And then he pulls out this massive asylum, I don't know, 83 ring gauge or something ridiculous.
It's like, it's like a fucking nightstick. You know, he's been saving it for you. He's been saving it for you. And he's like, yeah, you know, these smaller cigars, they're cute. But you know, when you, uh. And when you really want to smoke, I'm like, yeah, I don't know. Try my cigar. Let me know what you think. You know, I, I, you know, just from my basic understanding or experience with these things, they're big, but they don't have much [00:08:00] flavor.
Um, and the verdict's still out on what we're currently smoking. Cause I'm kind of getting some of those similar vibes. But, um, yeah, they don't tend to have much flavor. So when I give them this. It's just, it's always great seeing his reaction. It's almost as if, uh, he's from the camp where the bigger, the ring gauge, the larger the ring gauge, the more flavor there is.
And I think you guys have debunked that myth a long time ago.
**Gizmo:** And I think as we've discussed with a lot of smokers out there, there's just a value thing when you see a bigger cigar for only an increment, you know, a small incremental price change, you know, there's a value thing like, Oh, for another two bucks, I'm getting.
This much more of a cigar. So it, it does logically make sense,
**Chef Ricky:** but I think something that the pods also done is, you know, there's a middle ground, right? I feel like some of those larger ring gauge cigars there, they're on the, on the, the, the entry side of the spectrum. And then obviously there's some of the advanced stuff that gets pricier, but you guys have done a great job of illustrating what's going on.
Or highlighting cigars [00:09:00] that are in the 10 to 12 range, 7 to 12 range. Uh, that could very well become, you know, everyday sticks and maybe not that large a ring gauge, but, uh, delicious flavor for great experiences. And yeah,
**Pagoda:** It's really random. I think we were speaking about this yesterday that, you know, when we started off smoking cigar, it was exactly that it was a value proposition, you know, You spending what about 15 bucks, you know, and then for like the difference between a Robusto and, you know, a Toro would be just a couple of bucks and you're like, Oh, I'd rather spend more on smoking more of the cigar.
And if you're an occasional smoker, if you're a smoker who's smoking once or twice a week, or you're going to a lounge or a cigar store, purchasing a cigar just one at a time, you know, you're likely to move that way either way. And I think. Uh, at an average, I would imagine that not everybody smokes as much as we do.
I, too, I think that's why I think the Toro, uh, you [00:10:00] know, size has become really popular, you know, over the years, especially for people starting off for sure.
**Gizmo:** I know for me, I mean, as, as a younger smoker, when I first started well before I knew you guys, I would size up a cigar based on how long it was going to take me to smoke it.
And, and budgeting time accordingly, because I didn't, I didn't, I hadn't created a habit like we have now, or really kind of jumped into this lifestyle and made it important. It was very casual to me. So as okay, is this cigar going to take an hour? Is this going to take 40 minutes? Or, you know, is it going to be something bigger?
Like, like this cigar in our hand, you know, is this going to be an hour and a half, two hour affair? So that's how I looked at it. So obviously factoring in price there too, and not being very knowledgeable about things. I would just reach for what my eye kind of. You know, caught and, and aligned with my, uh, value prop and how long I thought it was going to take.
**Chef Ricky:** Yeah. Sometimes it's also what's marketed to you, right? Like some of this, this isn't one of them, but there's a lot of cigar podcasts out there that have, uh, you know, some other brands [00:11:00] that, you know, are in that realm of large ring gauge and whatnot. And. That may be very well be what he listens to. If anything, I doubt it though.
He's not a podcast listener, but, uh, yeah, you don't know what's influencing people's, uh, purchasing decisions, but it should be flavor and price. And, you know, maybe there you're getting price, but I don't know that you're getting a whole lot of flavor.
**Gizmo:** Yeah.
**Senator:** To Pagoda's point, I started smoking when I was in college and so you're as value conscious then as you are really at any point in your life and I remember some of the early sticks that I would smoke and even in the Padron 1000 series like I would gravitate toward the larger ring gauges of that.
I don't know what like the Toro is in the 1000 series. It's like the 5000 or something like that. It wasn't until years later that then I would try like the 2000. I'm like, I actually think this smokes much better. than the larger ring gauge, but at the time I was like, for a dollar more, why not get more of a cigar and get to enjoy more of it?
And I wasn't realizing then that like the experience is actually a bit different, [00:12:00] um, in terms of like the ratio of the wrapper to the actual filler. So I do feel like most cigar smokers probably start out that way, and then as you go through that journey, you kind of figure out that the, the shape, the Vittola makes a world of difference.
And I think all of us have experienced. And I believe in every single cigar, there is a Vitola that smokes better than them all and that, like, you really ought to pursue to have the fullest experience. Like, from the Exclusivo in the 64 line to the Millennium Pyramid, like, we all have really strong opinions on, like, one Vitola that's, like, the perfect expression of that cigar.
And, uh, I think it's worth pursuing for people.
**Gizmo:** The other thing too, I think that a bigger ring gauge cigar, and we're experiencing this tonight in this Byron is the draw is so effortless. You know, you're, you're not having to work very hard. It's just. Doing it for you almost and every time I take a drop the cigar the combustion is unbelievable.
It's thick thick smoke So I'm
**Senator:** getting [00:13:00] one very distinct flavor note that is fascinating because I never get this in a cigar Someone mentioned buttered, but I'm getting buttered popcorn
**Pagoda:** Hmm,
**Senator:** like I feel like I've literally just sat through a movie at the movie theater and like that's what I get on the finish
**Pagoda:** You know, it's really interesting it was moistening my you know around my lips and it was just a very different It was very nice I think the smoke output, you know, continuing the conversation, um, like when I sit at Carnegan, I see people come and sit next to me or a group of people and typically, you know, a lot of these guys will show up or one time visitors or, you know, companies having an event or they've been invited there and you will see, at an average, most people are choosing larger cigars.
**Gizmo:** Sure.
**Pagoda:** And, you know, and then it does make you feel good if you're smoking a cigar, you know, you're drinking, it's loud, you're not concentrating on the flavors, but when you get the smoke output, you feel like you're doing something, you know, which is, in its own right, very luxurious and extravagant, and I think [00:14:00] people tend to enjoy that as well.
**Gizmo:** I take another word for it. That that Senator has pointed to in the past, you know, after he's had a stressful day, I'm speaking for you, Senator. You're in the room here, obviously. But after you've had a stressful day, you sit down, you want to be a chimney. It's cathartic to have crazy amount of smoke output that you get out of some, you know, big reengaged cigars.
Like there's an element of stress release, I think, that comes from an effortless Massive amount of smoke.
**Senator:** Yeah. And it's like, there's something about like those clouds of smoke. Like whenever I have had a rough day and I say something like that, I'm like, I just want to be a chimney and I just want to be in clouds of smoke.
And it's like, when you just have a like really high combustion cigar, like you're just watching the smoke, you know, kind of waft away and you, you feel like you're like literally like flying or being transported somewhere else where when you don't have that combustion, like you're just kind of sitting there and you're like.
I'm smoking a cigar. Okay. You know, like this is, there's nothing all that transformational about the experience, but when you have a [00:15:00] lot of combustion, you just, you get mesmerized almost by the smoke and I think it just adds the experience and kind of the ritual, it's just very fun.
**Gizmo:** I got to say, so the aroma at the burn line to me is very Cuban.
It has a very Cuban esque type of aroma to it. And I am sensing a little bit, maybe it's the kind of salty thing that we're talking about. I'm getting a little bit of a Cuban type of flavor. You know, obviously I don't think there's Cuban tobacco in this. We could talk about, uh, the marketing stuff that goes around these cigars that some folks think points to that, but I don't believe that.
But I, I think there is an element of of Cuban flavors in here that are accessible to someone who does like Cuban cigars. But I'm finding this so far to be very, very pleasurable.
**Pagoda:** Me too. I'm really enjoying that. Flavors
**Chef Ricky:** changed for me. Uh, just right at your butter popcorn mark, I was actually looking at our cigars to see if we were more or less at the same point.
Uh, cause of when you mentioned it, that's when I started, uh, noticing [00:16:00] some changes and the retrohale, I started getting some dry fruit and white pepper. So now it's kind of getting into something I'm enjoying.
**Rooster:** I don't know if you guys have, are getting this right now, but just about now there's like, like you said, the dried fruit thing, it's, it's more like, it's like some kind of a berry almost.
Very. Yes. Okay. Thank
**Pagoda:** you. Thank you. Okay. I'm sorry. Because I was like, you know, it's just me. I'm just, uh, and I've, you know, sometimes you become a little content, especially with chef Ricky out here. It's like, Oh my Lord, we're just completely out of the zone. I may be thrown out. It's an
**Rooster:** odd note.
**Senator:** A thousand percent of Barry.
And the funny thing, I'm telling you, that has been present the entire time since the light. It was so faint, I thought maybe something I ate, or I thought my mind was kind of tricking me, but now that you've just said that, it is a thousand percent a berry note. And it's been there since we lit it. It's just now more pronounced.
Completely concur. Completely. I didn't
**Chef Ricky:** get that at all. I just, [00:17:00] initially I was just getting tobacco and barnyard and salt and some lactic notes, but I was missing. Keep in mind, Ricky, you only pick up these
**Senator:** notes when you don't retrohead. Oh.
**Gizmo:** You know what, you know what, now that you mentioned that berry thing and we talked about the creaminess, do you remember that, I think it was Lifesavers, In the nineties or early two thousand cream
**Chef Ricky:** savers, the
**Gizmo:** cream savers, they had a red one.
I think it was a raspberry cream saver, which was a, like a, like, it was almost like you're having vanilla ice cream with a cream, sickle with berries, the orange one, not the orange, but the berry one. I think that is a real. That is a real note here. I agree. Cream savers.
**Chef Ricky:** That's not on the bingo card. Isn't that why you have the chef here to talk about cream savers?
**Pagoda:** I'll tell you, it's really funny because I'm so glad you said it too, because I'm like looking at, you know, uh, uh, Chef Ricky and, you know, obviously everybody understands his palate is just excellent. And we [00:18:00] hear, this is an amateur palate talking and I'm like, Hmm, you know, uh, is it, is it? It was
**Rooster:** hard to pinpoint until he said fruit.
When I said fruit, I'm like, you're right. That is a fruit, you know? I've got it for you guys. It's a wet fruit, buddy. It's a wet fruit.
**Chef Ricky:** I've got it. I've got it. This is what it is. The not shortbread cookies. Do you ever have those back in the days? I don't think I've ever had that. So, it actually was one of my uncle's, who I just mentioned, not Jimmy, but my uncle Phil, it was one of his favorite cookies.
It was a round shortbread cookie and the inside, the very center, had a kind of fruit, uh Raspberry jam package. Yep, the color was, uh, based on the flavor. So they had a red for raspberry, they had an apricot, and maybe one of blackberry, I think they had. Uh, that's what. Between the butter to the salt, the fruit, the creamy, like shortbread notes.
Yeah. This, this thing's really changed.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. I I'm finding this to be a real dynamic cigar right now.
**Pagoda:** It [00:19:00] is. This is, I'm really, really enjoying it.
**Senator:** And I have to say, I agree with what you mentioned earlier, Giz. I thought it was crazy, kind of the Cuban esque, you know, flavor notes you're getting at the burn line.
I hadn't smelled the burn line at all until you said it. And as soon as I did. You really do get, it smells like Cuban tobacco. It doesn't taste like Cuban tobacco, but it really does. The aroma, uh, coming out of the cigar smells a lot like it.
**Rooster:** It's kind of like a Siglo 6. It is in size. It feels like that in your hand.
**Chef Ricky:** Yeah. Right?
**Gizmo:** Yeah, it does.
**Chef Ricky:** Even the aroma is that of a cookie, like as you get close to the burn line here. Yeah, it does smell like it. Yeah, you're getting like a savory shortbread cookie. Yeah.
**Pagoda:** You know, it's really interesting, if you think of the wrapper, you're talking about the Cuban esque. It seems like a very Cuban esque wrapper as well, like relatively thin, as opposed to a very, you know, thick, oily.
It's very true. It is a thin wrapper. It's
**Rooster:** got like a greenish tinge to it. Yeah. It's not like a reddish brown wrapper. You know, it's very light and it's [00:20:00] almost like a, has like a greenish tinge.
**Senator:** Not the color, but I think, I agree with Pagoda,
Like, this is the kind of cigar, you drop this on the floor, the wrapper's gonna crack. You know, you drop a Padron or some most New World cigars, it'll be perfectly fine. They'll bounce right back. It's too
**Chef Ricky:** windy outside, this thing's not gonna make it. No. It's
**Gizmo:** really well rolled. Yeah, construction's great.
So let's talk about the makeup of the cigar, boys. The wrapper is Ecuadorian Connecticut. The binder is Dominican. And the filler is apparently, this is questionable, Dominican Republic and undisclosed locations. Some folks say it's Peruvian and playing into what I think selected tobacco. And the founder has enjoyed, especially with Attabay and its likeness in its band to Behike, which we'll talk about in a second from Cohiba in Cuba.
A lot of folks have, have thought that there is tobacco from Cuba infused in these cigars brought into the makeup of [00:21:00] especially Attabay, but also Byron. Um, Uh, in these 21st century cigars, so. Maybe Cuban cookies, but no Cuban tobacco. I, and I agree with that. I think obviously it would be very difficult to get Cuban tobacco out of there, at least in mass, to produce cigars.
But, you know, what's interesting is, is Selected Tobacco, the brand, I think plays into that Kind of myth a little bit. They play into that hype by not disclosing. Don't
**Chef Ricky:** you hear some of the same with the Adabay sticks? That's exactly it. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Adabay is very much, uh, rumored, I think falsely to have Cuban tobacco, but the, they play into it.
**Rooster:** Most of the guys who smoke a lot of Cuban cigars, if you ask them about a new world, they mentioned Adabay right away. That's the only new world they mentioned, you know, and then they move on from other stuff. If they have to write, but Adobe is like the one cigar they'll always, uh, always go to.
**Gizmo:** So let's talk about Byron and Selected.
Let's go through a little bit of the makeup of this marca and the company that, that produces it. [00:22:00] So Byron cigars first was originally a Cuban brand from the mid 19th century. Lord Byron was created by two cousins who owned a cigar factory near Havana. The original Lord Byron brand enjoyed success for generations and eventually the grand, uh, grandson of one of the cousins, Ricardo Alfonso experienced severe financial hardships with the brand and was forced to sell.
Roughly 90 years later, Ricardo Alfonso's great grandson, Nelson Alfonso Aguad. Brought the brand back and he has had it in production under his company, which is called selected tobacco as say, which is a luxury cigar company founded by Nelson Alfonso Aguad. As we said, he's a Cuban artist and a designer known for his work with major brands like Habanos SA.
He is the guy who designed the Cohiba Behi band and boxes and branding for Haos in the early two thousands. Selected tobacco is renowned for producing high quality cigars under their three main brands. [00:23:00] Abe Byron, that we're Smoking tonight, and another one called Band ero. The cigars are made in Costa Rica at Tobacco's, DeCosta and distributed in the US by United Cigar Company.
Selected tobacco emphasizes luxury and innovation. With blends often kept secret. So that's like I said, playing into a little bit of that Cuban allure. Where does the filler come from? Is there Cuban tobacco in these cigars? You taste them. You get those kinds of notes. We're talking about that salty thing, the smell at the burn line.
It's not crazy for a consumer to smoke this. And say, hey, I think there might be some Cuban tobacco in this. But the guy behind it is Cuban. He's Cuban. And I, apparently, I read online, I don't know if this is true, he splits his time between Havana and Madrid. So he has dual citizenship or lives in both places.
**Senator:** I mean, I have to say, from the first third of this cigar, we ought to look him up when we're in Havana next.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. This is pretty, pretty damn good right now.
**Chef Ricky:** Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Really good. He's got a New World tang.
**Chef Ricky:** Yeah, no, [00:24:00] not for me. I'm getting some minerality here. I'm getting like morning dew, uh, just hit me there.
Uh, that's, it's pretty, pretty dynamic. By the way, morning dew is
**Pagoda:** a new one. Morning dew, notoriety, chef Rick. Did you mean mountain dew?
**Chef Ricky:** No. Lord, I haven't had a mountain dew in years. Morning
**Gizmo:** dew is in the Grateful Dead song. Uh,
**Chef Ricky:** yeah, it's right there with Petrichor.
**Gizmo:** Nelson Alfonso Aguad, you know, he's been an artist, a painter, a designer.
He's into ceramics, photography, pretty much his entire life. He's had a pretty amazing life. He was educated in Stockholm, Sweden. Uh, at the age of six, he moved there for eight years in 1978 at the age of. 13. He moved back to Cuba, continued his secondary studies there. He even went for five years to the university of Havana and he's had a pretty amazing life since then.
In 1999, he started making designs for the main cigar brands in Cuba. And then, like I [00:25:00] said, in 2009, 2010, he started designing the luxury brand Behike for Cohiba. And his designs have remained in place ever since. Now, you know, when we talked about Adobe, when we did that cigar. I don't know, nearly a hundred episodes ago, the Adebay Brujos, we, we talked about how similar the band is in its style to Behike, and I think that the question came up of, you know, it's a little too close.
You know, it's very, very similar.
**Chef Ricky:** I think they have the same, uh, Taino Deity on, on the band.
**Senator:** So the guy that's behind this Byron brand is the same guy that runs Adebay? I'm just surprised, honestly, because like Rooster said, Atabay always gets thrown around as the closest thing to a Cuban cigar, and we were really disappointed with that Atabay that we smoked.
Yes, it did
**Gizmo:** not rate well.
**Senator:** I didn't find anything about it to be Cuban esque at all. And this cigar, I do think, you know, is unique and different enough that like it, [00:26:00] it strays as close to some Cuban esque notes that we would get. Um, but they don't seem made by the same guy. Like it just, I'm surprised by that.
Nothing about this reminds me of Bata Bay.
**Gizmo:** And if you remember, I, I think. I'm not sure, you guys may have to correct me on this, I almost think that Atabay Robusto was more expensive than this. It was. It was 50. That's a 50 Robusto, right? 50 bucks. So this is a 37 Toro Extra that for right now is knocking the doors off of that Atabay Brujos that we spoke about.
You should see the box that these come in. The Century Humidor, they call it.
**Senator:** This is an extra? This is what all This is how all, this is how the boxes are. Jesus Christ, this is a proper humidor. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** It's really nice. It's really nice. They come in two other sizes. One is the aristocrats. Well, it's
**Pagoda:** beautiful.
**Gizmo:** It's a 52 ring gauge by eight inch cigar, and the ROIs, which is a 60 ring gauge by seven inch cigar. So this one sits right in the middle of those two at [00:27:00] 55 by six and an eighth. So this is pretty cool too. The, the, the name of the cigar, the, the, the namesake of the cigar, the original Lord Byron, was launched in 1848, like we said by Jose.
And Eusebio Alfonso, a pair of cousins, who opened a small factory in Santiago de Las Vegas, which was a municipality of Havana, Cuba. The brand's name pays tribute to the English poet and routine smoker, Lord Byron, whose work has been hailed for centuries as some of the, of romantic literature's best.
Pacote, you're a big romantic literature guy. You should check him out.
**Pagoda:** Absolutely. Is this written by Lord Byron?
**Gizmo:** Byron, the brand's introduction was met with success, but like I said, in the 1930s, after the onset of the great depression, they were forced to close. And in the late 1990s, Nelson Alfonso Aguad brought the brand back.
So that's the story on Byron cigars and selected tobacco and a little bit more detail than we did on the, uh, [00:28:00] Attabay episode. Almost a hundred episodes ago, and certainly I think well worth it because this cigar is awesome right now.
**Chef Ricky:** It's literally awesome right now. It really is. It's even picked up in strength a little bit, and I'm happy about that.
I agree. Yeah, and those berry notes are coming through. Wow. It just, it permeates every part of your olfactory and you're really getting so much flavor out of this now. It's almost a different cigar from when I first lit it. Makes you wonder if the open cellophane on the, on the foot had something to do with what that initial
**Gizmo:** That was a weird thing.
And Senator looked at me and goes, Giz, what did you do to the cellophane on my cigar? As if I took it, cut the foot off, so it was an open foot. I
**Senator:** just thought Giz was optimizing for the humidity to flow in and out of that cellophane.
**Chef Ricky:** I was so nervous. So nervous after the light. Yeah. So we have mentioned
**Rooster:** oxygen does
**Chef Ricky:** oxidize.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, it does. That's correct. Why? Bam Bam was the influence for me cutting off the end of the cellophane to put it in my tower. [00:29:00] All right, boys, it's time to do our new segment. Lizard of the Week. Lizard of the Week. Every week is going to win something from us. If it's merchandise, if it's cigars, if it's both, if it's I don't know, something we come up with somebody is going to win something every week.
And the way you win is sending in an email, sending in a voice memo, putting a great comment on YouTube or Instagram. We see everything. So keep in touch with us and you can win some stuff from the lounge lizards podcast. This week's winner. Of lizard of the week is lizard seagull, who we've mentioned a few times on the podcast.
Big listener listens every week and sends an email right after he does this one. He says, giz, I just listened to episode 140 as I drove today. I love the gizmo accountability hour, LOL. I might. I think I might reconsider sending Lizard Seagull the gift package on this one. I missed that one. Oh,
**Senator:** we're, we're all going to take good care of you, Lizard Seagull.
**Gizmo:** He says, I will have to try to find that Jefferson's Ocean Bourbon. Your podcast is the only cigar one I've listened to. And I know I've [00:30:00] heard that bourbon being on a ship and traveling around before. Are you sure it wasn't from a previous episode? You know, what's funny about him saying that is when we were sitting on the podcast, talking about that, I think either Bam or me, somebody mentioned like, had we talked about this Jefferson's ocean before
**Senator:** we did?
I would have brought it up. Cause I I've, I've had this a zillion times in the past and years ago, we did. This was probably like right around when I had started drinking it when I was at Shelley's in DC. So there's no doubt that. I would have mentioned it at some point, but it's very popular. I mean, anybody who's like a bourbon guy, that's probably like Jefferson's most famous bottle.
**Gizmo:** So he said, I've heard of it before. I'm not sure where I might've heard of it. It might've been from you guys being an old Navy guy, as he says, it intrigued him. He said, I loved finally putting a face to the voice. He's obviously talking about seeing my conversation with Rob Isle on the FOH member deep dive.
You know, when you only hear a voice, you just kind of imagine what that person looks like. I had you all wrong. That's a very [00:31:00] common thing, by the way. Everybody expects that I'm much older than I am. He says it's such a great voice for the podcast. It's a kind, kind comment. Thank you. I've always had everyone pegged as they speak.
A couple I have trouble with though, are Senator and grinder. We'll send you an eight by 10. So then in the, in the lizard of the week package assigned eight by 10 of Senator, it's just a blank piece of paper signed with, I like that. I'm successfully operating incognito. This is nice. Absolutely. You can do a carcature.
Yeah, we could, we could do caricatures. We can get one, get one done of you cigar in your mouth. But anyways, congratulations to lizard seagull lizard of the week. We appreciate everybody who writes in. And, uh, like I said, we're going to be doing this every week. So make sure you, uh, send your comments, thoughts, everything else to us.
And, um, win some free stuff from us. So boys, we're coming to the end of the first third here on the Byron 21st Century in El Ejantis. I got to tell you, this is a fantastic cigar right now. I'm shocked. [00:32:00] It's definitely
**Pagoda:** smoking like a 10. It is. You know, the, the bone line's great. Look at the ash. It's like, you know how, uh, I think Bam always mentioned that it's like dime stacked.
**Rooster:** Yeah.
**Pagoda:** It's, uh, it's excellent.
**Rooster:** Yeah. I mean, on top of the creaminess and the. The berry note that we have mentioned. There's also a sweet something going on, like a caramel or something. Some kind of a sweetness is coming through right now for me.
**Senator:** For me, it's sweet and savory, and the finish is insanely salty.
Like, I, this is There's not Cuban twang, but the saltiness that you get with Cuban Tang, it reminds you off that. Yeah. That is very, very prominent here, and I really like that.
**Rooster:** Would you say it's medium? I would say it's moved to medium at this point. Now. I agree. Started off kind of mild and now it's, now it's medium.
**Pagoda:** Solid. Medium. I, I would dare say that I think it's moving between medium full, just, I [00:33:00] don't think it's quite full yet. No. It's moving away from medium, like it's a solid medium.
**Chef Ricky:** Yeah. I'm speechless. I'm sitting here and I'm smoking this and I'm like, this may be the very first podcast where we could actually just not speak and smoke and stare at each other and I think even the listeners would be okay with that if they had this cigar in hand.
They might just understand it. Yeah, it's, it's, and I, I agree with you, Pagoda, it's definitely solidified itself as medium strength at this point, and it's kind of, you know, teeter tottering there back and forth a bit, uh, on the full, to,
**Rooster:** you know, to the full side. But if you gave somebody the cigar and you took off the foot band and the, and the other band, It would be hard to tell whether this is a Cuban cigar or not.
**Pagoda:** I agree. Next time I might do a positive Xeno for you. Pleasant surprise. Maybe on your birthday.
**Chef Ricky:** Tell him it's a Bahica 56 and give him this. You know, that was one of my favorite episodes.[00:34:00]
Roosters too. Me too. And you know, it's, it was easy. It would, this was probably around last summer that you guys did that. So I was just coming back from a wedding. And, uh, Paso Tano. So a Xeno is the best thing I could get anywhere. And, you know, I went into various smoke shops and it was either a, uh, a Toscano,
**Rooster:** In case you ever run out, he's got full cabs.
**Pagoda:** No, no. It's only of rappers. You must have smoked a cigar. No, no, I'm just kidding. No, no, I'm just kidding. The rest have been handed over as Cubans to everybody else.
**Gizmo:** So boys, let's talk about our pairing tonight. We're back to one of our favorite manufacturers of single malt scotch whiskey, the Balvenie.
And this one is interesting to say the least. It's called the collection of curious casks. [00:35:00] It's a limited edition, 14 years aged, single malt scotch. It's cask type is American bourbon barrel, and they even have cask numbers and everything else. So I guess it's truly a limited edition. You know, single malt scotch were huge fans of the Balvenie.
We've done it several times on the pod, namely first and foremost, I would say the Balvenie double wood, which is kind of a daily go to for the guys in the room here. Everyone except Pagoda.
**Senator:** Everyone
**Gizmo:** except Pagoda. He doesn't like the Balvenie.
**Senator:** He drinks that like nectar. Pagoda might be the global brand ambassador for Balvenie at this point.
**Gizmo:** And then also, of course, the Caribbean cask, 14 years age, which I think is going to be a solid comparison to this at the same age. The first thing I'll note is, before I sip it, is the look of the bottle, it's a much lighter looking spirit, and it seems much less viscous than the other Balvenie that we've done, namely the Caribbean cask.
Did you guys notice that?
**Pagoda:** Is it because it's But you know, [00:36:00] what's surprising, just to clarify my thought, is it because it's not being in the sherry cask? Maybe, um, the sherry probably adds a little more to the flavor?
**Gizmo:** Could be.
**Pagoda:** Um.
**Gizmo:** You mean the color?
**Pagoda:** The color, yeah. In terms of, it's pretty, like, But I guess
**Senator:** what's strange, it's in bourbon barrels.
Bourbon looks darker than that. It should. Yeah. There's some that
**Chef Ricky:** don't. Eagle rare is a little bit on the lighter side, right? That's not as viscous as some of those other ones.
**Gizmo:** So I just took my first sip of it. My first impression is that this definitely leans more peaty than the other Balvenie product that I've had.
Yes. You know, namely that the double would for sure.
**Senator:** I completely agree. And I'm just really surprised because, you know, when we were, I don't think any of us has had this before to know how this would pair with this cigar. But why I was at least happy about us doing BNY is BNY is on the sweeter side of, yeah, single malts.
It's not usually pd, and I find it really odd that this was put in [00:37:00] American bourbon barrel, which should impart sweeter notes. Yet this is pier than any BNY regular production. The 12 year, the 14 to 17 in 21. 21. Yeah, I, I, I've never had this much Pete in bny. I'm very surprised by this. And it has a bite to it.
**Gizmo:** It does have a bite. I'm drinking mine neat. I don't know if you guys are as well. Yeah, same here. It's, it's drinking nicely neat, even though, Senator, you noted that the proof on this is quite a bit higher. What is 48%. 48%. Wow.
**Chef Ricky:** It's like a good mezcal.
**Gizmo:** Ah,
**Chef Ricky:** there we go. Chef Ricky's happy.
**Gizmo:** So what do you guys, what do you guys think of the flavor of this, you know, as far as being a Balvenie
**Chef Ricky:** Scotch?
I think for me, the, the peatiness in the beginning sort of throws me off, uh, and I didn't. I don't necessarily want it there, but I did, I did the, um, kind of making myself work with it and that I allowed it to roll down the sides of my tongue, as I said before, and you get some like toffee notes, some sweet toffee notes that highlight some of those [00:38:00] caramel notes that Rooster mentioned earlier in the cigar that are slowly coming through.
I think that the peatiness does help highlight some of the minerality in the cigar, but I think once you get over that initial kind of peat shock from this expression. It starts to blend better with the cigar, but original, you know, initially it was somewhat of a clash.
**Senator:** I agree with Ricky. I feel like you definitely have to adjust to this.
Like the first few sips, I was so dominant that peat note that it was clashing with the cigar for me. Now that I've had several sips and I'm more used to that, I'm getting other notes. Everything Ricky mentioned, the only other note that I am getting in this is a little bit, and I actually, I started drinking this.
The And then I added one chip just to see if it would open up and I'd get anything else. And with that one chip, I'm getting some citrus on the finish. That's actually really nice.
**Chef Ricky:** I could see some rind even on, even on my neat pour here, like a little citrus rind, somewhat, somewhat pithy, [00:39:00] like bitter in a pleasant way.
Yep. In a complex way, not in a negative way. So I could definitely see how ice would tone that bitterness down and allow some citrus to come through. Yep. Yep. Yep.
**Pagoda:** Yeah, no. If I were to, uh, taste as blind, I wouldn't have ever guessed that this is a alny. That's where
**Gizmo:** I was gonna go. My, my question for the room here is for a listener out there who's hear us hearing us say, this is a little bit more PD than we'd expect.
The range of that for a cigar, a cigar smoker who drinks scotch like we all do, that can range from an open or a tusker all the way up to a laville. And, and when you hear Pete. Like, there's a wide range of, of what you expect when you hear that word in a scotch. Where would you place this on the scale of not very peaty, like a, like an Oban or maybe a Talisker, all the way up to a Lagavulin or
**Chef Ricky:** a Lafroi?
I'm not a seasoned scotch drinker. I've had Lagavulin a couple times and Lafroi, but probably say this is about a five. Like it's right at a, at a midpoint. So, you [00:40:00] know, no, no more than a six, no less than a five for me.
**Senator:** So I, I agree with that and to put it to a brand that I think it is like right alongside in terms of the same amount of Pete, I think it's just like open 14 in terms of the level of Pete,
**Pagoda:** maybe a little more, just more.
No.
**Chef Ricky:** I think with all the ice you put in there, you probably drowned out some of the other flavors. And now you're getting nothing but peach.
**Pagoda:** The principle is here. It's true. The ice. It's like, now I can't get away with my little cheating here or there. No, that's not it.
**Senator:** But I, I think it's, it's close to Oban.
I think it's nowhere near a Lagavulin, definitely nowhere near a Laphroaig, but um, it's, it's balanced despite how much peat there is there.
**Chef Ricky:** You know, that gets me thinking too, I feel like Scotch is like a very classic cigar pairing. And I don't [00:41:00] think it all, like, really goes that well. At least with the cigars that, you know, are maybe in my wheelhouse, right?
Dried fruit, coke, like, I, I just don't get it. I don't Have you had the Balvenie Doublewood, the 12 year? No, I did. But that's less peaty than this. What I'm saying is when you get into heavy peat scotch. Oh, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I thought you meant scotch generally. No, no, no, no, no, no. Obviously McAllen, Ghost Grey, you know, Balvenie Doublewood.
But when you start getting into the super peaty scotches, I just, I don't see how those things I
**Rooster:** mean, I don't Well, he drink now, but I think the one cigar that would go well with a Petey Scotch would be the, uh, the late hour,
**Gizmo:** the Davidoff,
**Rooster:** the Davidoff late hour. And even
**Pagoda:** the Padrones, I think the exclusive roads, um, like I've, I've had, I'm not a big, uh, Lagavulin 16 drinker.
I do enjoy it after the first three sips. Um, I was going to say the first three glasses.
**Gizmo:** Oh man, Pagoda.
**Pagoda:** Yeah, but, uh, [00:42:00] yeah, really, either way, I've lost my chain of thoughts. I'm
**Senator:** not going to enjoy anything after the first three glasses.
**Chef Ricky:** Do you guys experience like a fermented yeastiness on the, on your draw after drinking scotch? Like I feel like that's what happens with me. I get like a lot of yeasty notes.
**Pagoda:** Absolutely.
**Senator:** Yes. No,
**Pagoda:** I'm just kidding.
**Senator:** I think with this cigar, yes. I agree. I'm not sure that I generally agree with most cigars, but with this one, I do think that's because of the age could be. I think also like just the, the flavor profile of this is like creamier and it's not like super full body. Like I feel like when I have a scotch with a full bodied smoke, I don't get any of that just because like the flavor of that cigar is so pronounced and intense.
And in this is so much more subtle. And I think that creaminess is kind of what Brings that out. For whatever reason
**Rooster:** I'm looking at pagoda and he's trying to figure out what the hell does [00:43:00] yeast taste like? , I, I have no idea. You know, in, in Mexico, if you've had champagne,
**Chef Ricky:** you have a, a pretty good sense.
There you go. A hundred percent. Yes, absolutely. Or in Mexico they have a Te Apache, which is a fermented pineapple drink or puke. And you get a lot of these like yeasty notes, um, that I'm getting now after sipping some scotch and drawing on the cigar.
**Gizmo:** What does a fermented pineapple drink taste like? You know, my, I have, one of my stepkids loves kombucha, which is like the most nasty thing I've ever tasted.
I don't like it. Is it in that kind of family of punchy in the face
**Chef Ricky:** flavor? It's not. Kombucha is a bit more acidic. Okay. In, in Mexico, they do it on purpose. Um, uh, and it's, you know, very low in alcohol, good flavor. It's definitely tastes, uh, I don't want to say like putrid fruit, but it's, you know, it's definitely past its prime in terms of, uh, its age or whatnot, but it ferments there not [00:44:00] for very long, a few days.
Uh, and it's a refreshing drink when you have it over ice and the proper climate or anywhere really. Uh, but those yeasty notes, uh, or it reminds me a long time ago, I was in St. Petersburg, Russia, uh, on a consulting project there. And some of the cooks introduced me to, and forgive me if I'm mispronouncing this.
Um, although it's not allowed around here. I was going to say, everyone should be used to it because of Gizmo. Um, I think it's called kvass or. I'm not sure what letter is silent versus not. Uh, but it was a fermented bread drink and it was just something that they, you know, put a bunch of bread in there, not sure what else, but there was definitely bread, uh, and it was quite delicious, you know, it was just refreshing, very low alcohol content, so low that, you know, you were kind of able to drink it while cooking.
And yeah, so I feel like every culture has their sort of, you know, low alcohol fermented. Beverage, and they're, they're kind, kind of present kombu, [00:45:00] uh, pleasant kombucha is aggressive and more acidic, uh, than a lot of these others that I've had. And I think if it's your gem, then you appreciate it. And if not, if you can't get past that initial flavor of just kind of that fermented flavor profile, you may just not enjoy it.
But do you like sauerkraut? Do you like kimchi? Do you like
**Gizmo:** Sometimes, very rarely, like kimchi, not really. Sauerkraut. Yes. But you know, it's specific applications. Like I'm not waking up in the morning and thinking about having sauerkraut. Like when I'm in a situation where it's there and it's interesting, I might try it and have it, but I'm not, I'm not reaching for it.
That's not what I'm going.
**Senator:** I mean, think about it. The real problem is you can't eat it in the car. That's true. It's very messy. The sauerkraut would just be everywhere.
**Gizmo:** Then you smell like sauerkraut. It's a whole thing.
**Rooster:** I love kimchi.
**Chef Ricky:** Yeah, I, I, lately I've been conscious about my gut health. Uh, so I've been trying to get some more kimchi, just anywhere I can, you know, I buy kimchi and if I could throw it on a taco, throw it on my [00:46:00] eggs in the morning, like just wherever I could introduce it, um, then I do.
And, um, you know, I do some of those like for, you know, not fermented, but the cultured sodas, Ollie pop or whatever. So it's, yeah, it's, it's a big thing now.
**Gizmo:** I prefer to go with Mezcal when I'm looking for a beverage that's good for my health. Mezcal is the way I go.
**Chef Ricky:** It's tough to do in the morning in the States.
In, in Mexico, it's like all day long, all day, every day, just have water. I just got a really awesome coffee note.
**Gizmo:** From the cigar?
**Senator:** By the way, look at the burn on Pagoda's cigar. Yeah. Wow. Look at the ash. It's got like
**Pagoda:** two inches. You know, I do think if you put a couple of chips of ice or one, it does open up this drink.
It really does. And I think you need to, you need to try it with at least a chip of ice, just a bit. I think, uh, it just brightens it up.
**Gizmo:** So we were talking about, going back to the Balvenie, The Curious Cast [00:47:00] Collection, 14 years of age, that we have here. The box, I guess, or the cylindrical box that the bottle comes in is, it's like there's a novel written by Lord Byron on the back.
In like size
**Senator:** 8 font.
**Gizmo:** And you said there's nothing of use there.
**Senator:** Nothing. I'm just gonna read like two sentences and you'll see how useless this is. There are the classics and amongst them rare and striking single casts yet to be discovered. Amidst this scene, one man waits, dressed in a simple black t shirt despite space side's frosty temperatures.
A second future approaches heralded by the sound of light footsteps which echo around the lofty warehouse. I mean, what are we learning from this? That's some lounge lizards ASMR right
**Gizmo:** there, Senator. Keep going. I'm ready for a nap. I'll pay for
**Pagoda:** that. That is Lord Byron's poetry. It is, it is. Are you reading Lord
**Gizmo:** Byron right now?
Yeah. That's some romantic literature.
**Pagoda:** I think we've been thinking all along, I think it's a perfect pairing. It's
**Senator:** [00:48:00] unbelievable. This is a literature podcast now. When it tries to tell you something about the cast, it's still saying nothing. Like it says, these tastings typically feature unique and unexpected character.
Unusual cast that no one has, has seen before. Anything with a jaw drop factor, elaborates George. What does that tell you? It's chat
**Pagoda:** GPT. Yeah, it must be. Can you write something, but I can't taste it. We need to fill up
**Gizmo:** the backs, the back of a container for a bottle of scotch. Please write something. Here's what's on the bottle.
This might be a little more useful for us. It says hand selected by malt master, Kelsey McKitchney. This unique single cask has been fully matured in American oak barrels, which have previously held bourbon. This hidden gem is alive with unusual notes of smoldering oak and is grounded in, well, that was the peat and is grounded in woody, earthy flavors.
with layers of candied orange and a deep vanilla oakiness. That's much more useful. And I
**Pagoda:** think that's [00:49:00] reasonably accurate.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, I agree. I don't know if I'm getting the orange, though.
**Pagoda:** I got the orange.
**Senator:** I actually
**Gizmo:** don't
**Senator:** get much vanilla. The peel. I think the vanilla
**Chef Ricky:** is the toffee that I was getting. And then the citrus that I that you mentioned, I'm getting it in somewhat of a rind format.
Yeah, no, I think. And on the nose, you get a lot of vanilla, actually.
**Rooster:** You kind of get a candied citrus note on the cigar now. I don't know if you kind of get that.
**Pagoda:** But that's the aroma from the drink. He
**Rooster:** doesn't even have one.
**Gizmo:** So speaking of boys, we're about halfway through here on the Byron 21st century in Hellahontus.
You just mentioned candied citrus. Any other new notes or any changes? I'm finding this to be a, right now it's a two act play. I'm assuming it's going to be a three act play with the way it's developing here. This is exactly the kind of cigar, especially as a new entry to. What we're doing here is something we've never tried before.
This is a marker we've never had before on [00:50:00] this podcast. This is exactly the type of cigar that we're looking for. It's interesting. It's different. It's got a unique origin, cool story, understated bands. Like it's checking all the boxes right now. Maybe. Aside from price.
**Pagoda:** No, it's, it just makes the, you know, journey for the process of discovery so much more enjoyable.
That's fantastic.
**Senator:** I also think this is a cigar that would appeal to a really wide audience. I think if you like a mild cigar, I think this is so smooth and easygoing, even though it gets firmly medium, that it would never kick you around. And I think someone could appreciate. Be a little stronger than what they normally go for, but I think they'd love and I think for any of us who like a medium cigar or even a medium full cigar.
There's enough flavor in here to satisfy that person too. So I think it's just like very versatile in terms of who this would appeal to.
**Rooster:** I would even say a Cuban cigar smoker would love the cigar. I completely
**Gizmo:** agree. Yeah. I think that this is for someone who likes [00:51:00] a mild to medium, large ring gauge format, Cuban cigar.
You're thinking E2, you're thinking maybe a Ciglo 6, like you mentioned, a Behike of some size, you know, even, uh, the Cohiba 55th, the Victoria, you know, there are a lot of cigars in the Cuban catalog at a larger ring gauge. They kind of give you that effortless type of large combustion, really enjoyable smoke.
This is. Absolutely in line with someone that enjoys those type of cigars, obviously different notes, and we've called a lot of them out, but I don't know, this is really, really working for all different types of cigar smokers. What other Vitolas does this come in? Comes in two others, the Aristocratus, again, is a 52 by 8 inch, that's a big cigar, and the Onorobilis, which is a 60 ring gauge by 7.
So this is the middle one. Wow. But it's a little shorter, the eight inch by 52. That's, that's a long cigar, man. I mean, 52 ringage sounds great, but eight inches, my goodness. So [00:52:00] Senator, I wanted to ask, you know, last week we detailed your trip to Italy, which was great. You also went domestic and you traveled for work to Chicago and you ended up at this incredible lounge you were sending us photos about.
So we have to hear the details on this place you went. It looked like you were sitting in the Royal Palace.
**Senator:** I was. Completely blown away. And this was by chance. It's not like I knew I was going to visit this place before I even left for my trip. Um, I have traditionally not been a fan of Chicago, so I apologize to the Chicago listeners, but I am now fully converted.
I love Chicago. I had such a great time there. Um, the reason I've hated Chicago is because I've, the five, six, seven times I've been there before this trip, Every one of those has been in the fall or winter, when it is freezing cold, it's miserable, you walk outside, the streets are dead, the city feels so low energy, and I just didn't understand, like, why do people love this city, [00:53:00] like, it just, it didn't have that buzz that you get in many, uh, cities.
Going for the first time in the summer. Completely different experience. The streets are bustling. Everybody's having a great time. The food scene is incredible. I've honestly, I think even in New York, when you're on a given street corner in Manhattan and you're looking for great restaurants immediately around you, you know, you may find five great restaurants and then dozens of just good restaurants, you know, average restaurants in Chicago, when you're downtown, whatever corner you're on in downtown Chicago, there's like 20.
Excellent restaurants immediately in your vicinity. I mean, it's just incredible. And the weather was so beautiful. I mean, here home for us, it was like 95 degrees and sweltering. It was between 75 and 82 every day. I was there perfect summer weather. And I was trying to find somewhere to smoke a cigar. So I had looked up, there's a lot of different [00:54:00] cigar lounges there in Chicago, but one place really stood out.
This place called Biggs Mansion, B I G G S, and I saw just a few photos and I was like, wow, this place looks super nice, like unlike anything I've ever seen. And to my surprise to me, when I got there, it, the photos don't even do it justice online. They honestly need some better marketing because you get there.
And you sit down, you literally feel like you're smoking a cigar in Buckingham Palace. It is so over the top and beautiful. It's a 15, 000 square foot mansion. It's a historical site that, I was talking to one of the employees there, apparently the own, it used to be a restaurant. And the owner, the current owner, was a part owner in the restaurant and the building.
He got an option to buy out the entire building, and he did. And then he converted the whole thing to a cigar lounge. It's three floors. You can smoke through the [00:55:00] entirety of this place. So when you get there, There's this nice outdoor patio. So there were a few guys members sitting outside since the weather was great, smoking on the patio.
You can either go up the main steps and then you're in like the main foyer of the mansion, or you can go downstairs in through the basement. And the basement's actually where they have their humidor. And there's a little public smoking section where. As long as you buy a stick from them, you can sit in that little room there and have that cigar, uh, the humid or very well stocked.
They had a ton of Davidoff. I saw the Davidoff Maduro that we reviewed and really loved. Padrone, a lot of Fuente and kind of the usual suspects outside of that. They offer a day pass for a hundred bucks for the day. The hours are great. They open at noon, they close at midnight. Um, and then membership for the year is 3, 700 bucks.
It's BYOB. And if you're a member, you can bring in your own cigars. There's no monthly minimum or [00:56:00] anything like that. And even as a day passer for a hundred bucks, you can bring in your own cigars. So I bought the day pass. I go upstairs and my gosh, I just, these rooms are so beautifully decorated. Every you even notice the artwork is stunning in this place.
And one of the employees was telling me every single piece in that mansion is a one of one original, uh, that the owner obviously paid a lot of money for. I mean, the, the seats, beautiful tufted leather chairs and couches, uh, everything's in great shape. Certain rooms, they have little, like, little, uh, plaques that'll say, no cell phone use permitted.
Oh, I like that.
**Gizmo:** Yeah.
**Senator:** So
**Gizmo:** quiet rooms,
**Senator:** quiet rooms where you can just, you know, converse, but no cell, you know, everybody gets annoyed when someone's on a phone in a cigar lounge. And there are some rooms where you can make phone calls. And if you want to get some work done and, um, I had like a favorite, I mean, there must be like 20 different rooms in this place that you can sit and smoke in [00:57:00] this one room.
It's, uh, um, on the main level, um, kind of in the middle. There's a huge grand piano there, beautiful chairs. Did you tickle the ivories at all? Did you sit down? One, one bad, uh, one, one, uh, bad keystroke and I'm, I'm in for several thousand dollars at this place. And so, um, big grand piano, beautiful chairs, these huge, like, floor to ceiling windows that let in a lot of light.
There was a TV they had on silent, um, there's music, like, classical music playing throughout the, they've, like, built in speakers in the ceilings throughout the whole mansion. Uh, there's this great, uh, little photo of, uh, like JFK smoking a cigar in that room. Bunch of artwork. Um, it, the chair even that I sat in, in that room is the single most comfortable chair I've ever smoked a cigar in.
I could have slept there. I mean, unreal.
**Gizmo:** I'll tell you lounge owners, as we've discovered around the country and around the world. A lot of lounge owners skimp on the wrong things and a really good chair for you to sit [00:58:00] in and enjoy your cigar. It's crucial.
**Rooster:** Agreed. True. I mean, you're spending hours, you know, in one sitting and so you, you want a comfortable chair and the pictures that you send of that lounge and there was a fireplace, I think, in every single room.
Almost
**Senator:** if not every room has a working fireplace. The one in the basement, they actually had running because the basement was cool and there was two women that were working in the shop. They were cold, so they had the fireplace going, but the rest of the place, it was summer, so they didn't have them on.
Every room has one. It's amazing.
**Rooster:** It didn't seem crowded.
**Senator:** Get this. I, I got there around noon every day. I worked out of this place. Probably left around dinner time, like maybe 7 o'clock. Both days I went there, I was the only person in the entire mansion smoking. I had the whole place to myself for a hundred bucks a day.
They have 200 members and the only guys that were there during the day that were members were like five guys that were out on the patio. It was unbelievable. I guess because Chicago is so
**Rooster:** cold [00:59:00] that the short summers that you have there, people are enjoying outdoors. Exactly. They don't want to be inside.
**Gizmo:** But still, even at 200 members, and we're talking, what, 300 bucks a month for membership, right? So if you're doing the math on that, 3, 700 sounds like a lot in one month. One charge. But if you're doing the math, you know, I mean, you're about a, you know, you about 10 bucks a day, really, you know, to be a member there.
But economically I, it, it blows my mind that a 15, 000 square foot mansion can exist in Chicago just as a cigar lounge. And for you to be there for two days and be the only guy there. I know that obviously there's recurring revenue from the membership, but it still seems like, how, how does this place stay afloat?
Is it a sandbox?
**Rooster:** I'm sure in the fall, it, it, it gets, it gets packed. Cause you're not smoking outside. It's impossible. So I'm sure it gets.
**Senator:** Even the staff, it's fully staffed. They had, the first day I was there, like these two guys, very nicely dressed, um, that come and bring you [01:00:00] water, coffee, tea, whatever you want, that's included in the day pass and obviously free for members.
I mean, everything you could want in a cigar lounge, everything you've ever dreamed of being able to have at a cigar lounge, this place truly, and obviously I travel a lot for work, global even, I've never seen a nicer cigar lounge. Anywhere in the world. I I'm just, I can't wait to go back. I mean, it's just so great.
I would love for us as a group to do just a short trip in Chicago, just for you guys to experience this place. It's that worthwhile. It's
**Rooster:** a shame. There's no place like that in New York city. I know.
**Pagoda:** Would you read that better than the Panama lounge? Way better. Oh, wow. So you're
**Gizmo:** referencing, we discussed when you guys came back from Panama, we talked about what was the lounge called in, uh, in Panama?
**Pagoda:** No
**Gizmo:** memory, no, so if you go back to the episode where a Senator and Pagoda recaps their Panama episode, they went to a great lounge there. So you're saying this is even better than
**Senator:** that way better. I mean, [01:01:00] the thing is that that lounge is also beautiful and there are elements of it that you won't really find anywhere else.
But when I just say like how ornate the decor is, like how insanely nice this plate, like you're. Worried about messing anything up there. It's just so pristine. I have to show Ricky because I don't know that he got to see every photo. This is the room I was talking about there. So Senator Lord
**Pagoda:** Byron. The chandeliers,
**Gizmo:** the chair.
So is this place, did you say it was a BYOB? Do they have a bar?
**Senator:** So the funny thing, they have a bar there, but they can't, they don't have a liquor license. They can't serve alcohol. So I think like if they do events and stuff like that, like members can like stock the bar and they have stat. Well, I actually, they probably technically can't have the staff serve.
Maybe you'd have to bring in someone, but, um, they have this setup for it. They just don't do it. But I think we've talked about, it's always preferable in a cigar lounge to have it be BYOB. I [01:02:00] mean, one that guarantees that any spirit or drink of any kind that you like and prefer. You're always going to be able to drink there because no menu is ever going to have every single thing that you would want.
I mean, for us, Havana club, for instance, we'll never be able to get at a restaurant or a cigar lounge in the States. And so, um, and then from a cost perspective, I mean, you know, look at frigging the cigar lounges in New York city, you're spending a 30 just for a 12 year scotch. It's insanity.
**Gizmo:** And that's, you know, that's how cigar lounge is in the city.
Obviously we're not talking, you know, when we talk about Carnegie club or some of the others, I mean, that's really a retail establishment first. I mean, they have seating and you can smoke your cigars there and you can bring your stuff in, but they're really existing so that you can, they can. Make that money on the liquor.
So again, to have this place in Chicago without a liquor license, 15, 000 square feet, a mansion, and their only source of revenue is in the humidor and in the day passes and the memberships. I just don't understand. I mean, is it a historical site? [01:03:00] Like, is there a, it must be some sort of tax advantage or something.
**Senator:** Huge tax break on that building for that math to work to have 200 members and only 3, 700 a year. There's gotta be a giant tax incentive for this guy. Um, but just, man, I, what a, a thank you to the entire staff there. There was so great. I mean, my last day there, my, my flight got canceled. So I ended up spending an extra night in Chicago.
Um, and when I was there, I mean, I was smoking the whole day. I had my suitcase with me. They like put away in a closet, my, my briefcase. I changed, uh, when I was leaving. So I didn't reek of cigars in the plane. I mean, it's just like, I could have lived there the whole time. Like it's just so perfectly set up for any need you can have.
Um, man, I, I really, I can't wait to go there with you guys at some point. I'm curious, do you have a shower? I don't actually, I only, I only visited one of the bathrooms there. That bathroom did not, but it's possible. I'd put nothing past this place. How late were you there? Not late. Just till dinner time every day.
Like maybe [01:04:00] seven, eight o'clock. I think Chef Ricky is thinking of moving in. I was going to say, Chicago is going to open up across the street. I'll split it apart with you. I'll roll it up, Chicago. Let's do it. They've even got a pool table upstairs in one of the rooms. I mean, just, it's an awesome spot. I was just wondering if maybe it picked up in volume at night.
I have to imagine. A day. Yeah. I have to imagine. And like Bruce was saying, the winter's gotta be crazy there. You, you can't possibly stand outside anywhere in Chicago in the dead of winter and have a cigar
**Gizmo:** in the dead of October even. Yeah, in Chicago. I mean, it gets pretty, pretty brutally cold there. And like Pagoda said, the wind is just, it just gets really crazy there.
You know, the, the weather's tough, but I mean, they're resilient people, man. They, they work through it. I mean, they have much tougher winters than we ever do. And, uh, they make it happen. I mean, we get an inch of snow, they cancel school here. I want, you know, they get a foot in snow in Chicago. It's like plow the streets.
We're going to school, you know?
**Chef Ricky:** Yeah. What was your, uh, the best meal you had [01:05:00] or your favorite meal?
**Senator:** I wish I remember the name of this restaurant. There was a restaurant right near where this, uh, Biggs mansion is that I had gotten, um, some fish entree that was like Perfectly prepared. I think it was a branzino.
Honestly, like every restaurant I had, you know, when you're sometimes like you're hungry and you're looking at like a bunch of menus. And you just can't pick a damn place. Like your, your mind is going a thousand directions. That's how I just felt the entire time in Chicago. It's like, every time I'm like, wow, that's, it looks like a great menu.
Wow. That place looks amazing. And then I just got to a point where I'm like, there's 20 places that all have things that look amazing. And I'm like, I'll just randomly have to pick one. Like you can't even decide. It's too easy to find good food there, honestly.
**Chef Ricky:** So when you're on a, on a, on a business trip.
I mean, I imagine you're entertaining clients or whatnot, so maybe you're picking, you know, more, uh, dine in friendly restaurants that are a little bit fancier. Uh, I'm more of a, let's find like the common food, the street [01:06:00] food, or, you know, so, do you have any chip Beef or deep dish pizzas or crazy hot dogs.
Or
**Pagoda:** I mean, the funny thing is, I don't think, you know, Lord Senator, Lord Byron, not a big
**Gizmo:** hot dog guy. He eats one hot dog a year on July 4th. That's it.
**Chef Ricky:** I get it. And that's why I asked the question, you know, I just, Is there ever any curiosity about trying like the local?
**Senator:** No. So I, I have once tried deep dish pizza in Chicago and I really hated it.
Really hated it. I mean, it's just so much dough. It's just, you know, like for anyone who's in the New York area, like you're always looking for a thin crust pizza. Like none of us are ever seeking out more dough in pizza. Like it's always about less. And so I had a really hard time with that. But I will say now that I'm really coming around then Chicago.
Also, right near this [01:07:00] Big's Place, there was a deep dish pizza spot that I walked by several times that had a big outdoor patio and I will say the pizza there looked much better than the deep dish that I had once and now I'm so in on Chicago that the next trip I'm going to have to give that a try and maybe I'll feel differently.
There was some great breakfast spot. I wish I remembered the name of this. They have a few locations in Chicago. It's like one of the most famous places to eat breakfast and probably had like the craziest most extensive menu I've ever seen at like a breakfast or brunch spot. Um, and so I actually got a takeout there in the mornings and just brought it up to my room.
Uh, it was excellent. Every meal. I mean, I had not one complaint. You gotta
**Chef Ricky:** see what it was.
**Senator:** Oh, I mean, uh, well, this, this goes to now pagoda, iss gonna laugh. , I mean, . I,
**Gizmo:** lord, Senator
**Chef Ricky:** Lord Byron. Senator Lord Byron. No, I, I I fried egg and some truffles. And a cy of cavi. No, [01:08:00] no, it was more I
**Senator:** eat a
**Gizmo:** healthier Paul Rose Champagne.
No,
**Senator:** no. I, I Eggs
**Chef Ricky:** benedict.
**Senator:** No, that's a caviar. That's, I, I eat a healthier diet. So like, for me, breakfast is like an egg white omelet, like stuff like that. Okay. So it's nothing particularly exciting, but. They made an amazing egg white omelette and then even they had this like If you want a healthier option than like hash browns or home fries, this like cauliflower hash was excellent with like mushrooms and stuff like just sounds great.
It was, it was awesome. And the last probably
**Chef Ricky:** held that together with egg whites and some cheese and yeah, yeah.
**Senator:** And then the last thing I have to say, the service in Chicago is unbeatable. Paralleled. I, and I don't know why I didn't remember having this same experience before. Maybe the warm weather, everybody's just happier there.
At the hotel, I mean, I check in, I was staying at the, the Ritz there downtown and they have a restaurant right off the lobby and I was in a hurry to like grab lunch. Actually, I didn't think at first I was in a hurry. And the, the [01:09:00] woman who comes up to me, she goes, um, is there a certain time that you need to be out of here by?
And I don't know why that like seemed like such a weird question. Like nobody here asks you that. You know, they're like, we're going to get your food and we're going to get it to you. We don't care when you need to leave. And so I said, I'm like, no, everything's fine. Then I look at my phone, especially with the hour time difference.
And I was like, shit, I have a call in 30 minutes. So I actually really need to get up to my room and be in and out in 30 minutes, which normally doesn't happen at most restaurants. So I went back to her and I'm like, I'm sorry. I actually realized I have a call in 30 minutes. She's like, so would it be preferable to get out of here in 20 minutes?
I said, that'd be amazing if that's possible. She told the kitchen to fire up the microwave.
Chef perspective.
She, uh, she clearly spoke to the kitchen. I had a great piece of salmon come out. Perfect. Medium rare. Um, and the food was excellent. I was literally in and out in 20 minutes. Were that
**Chef Ricky:** fucking guy ordering salmon with 20 minutes? Yeah. With [01:10:00] 20 minute lead time.
**Gizmo:** This is your nightmare customer right here.
Except he doesn't Yelp. I appreciate that about Senator. He's not a Yelp guy. I'm not going to apologize for it because that
**Senator:** place was not cheap. I mean, that was like a 40 piece of salmon. And that was lunch, not even dinner.
**Chef Ricky:** So there's at least three people touching your salmon. It's not like, you know, yeah, it's not like, you know, the someplace in New York stressing over, you know, minimum wage increases in labor and whatnot.
**Senator:** Definitely not at this place. And just all around, I mean, uh, the hotel staff, when my flight got canceled, I got in an Uber and I didn't even have a hotel room. And I was like, just take me back to where I was and I'll see if they have a room available. As soon as I got there, they're like, we put you in the exact same suite that you were in the night before.
They had a bottle of champagne waiting to apologize that my flight was canceled. I'm like, this is unbelievable. Like, Unreasonable
**Chef Ricky:** hospitality. It's, it's a beautiful thing.
**Gizmo:** I gotta ask a question about your flight being canceled. Was this related to that crowd strike? outage? No, just a
**Pagoda:** United problem.
**Gizmo:** Oh, [01:11:00] this is not United.
Um, no, there were thunderstorms in New York that day. And,
**Senator:** uh, all the New York area airports put a three hour ground stop on all flights coming in. And so they had, they held us at the gate on the plane for an hour and a half. Then they realized that this is going to be at least it was first an hour and a half ground stop.
Then it became three hours. They take us off the plane. And then at that point, LaGuardia where I was supposed to fly into doesn't take flights past midnight. And I'm like, there's no way that we're going to get out of here and land before midnight. And they could maybe divert us. And the woman was very honest with me.
She's like, I don't think it's going to work out so you could wait, but you might not want to. And I'm like, screw this. And sure enough, when I'm halfway in my Uber to the hotel, Cancel every other flight was canceled. So it all worked out.
**Gizmo:** The reason why I ask, you know, the, the CrowdStrike thing, taking down effectively global communications and global, the global economy.
Almost, I mean, shutting down global travel, I think more flights were canceled, especially [01:12:00] Friday
**Rooster:** Delta Delta's had a real trouble. They had
**Gizmo:** a four or five days of trouble. But I mean, to think about one software update issue causing upwards, I think of 10. Billion dollars globally in an outage of, of cost stranding passengers and luggage all over the world.
I mean, nine one, one systems were down all over the world. I mean, it's just unbelievable. Apparently I read, I don't know how true this is, but more flights were canceled because of the crowd strike outage. Then we're canceled on nine 11, I believe it, which is, I mean, that's just a crazy statistic. Wow. And it's just one errant, you know, upload of a software update that bricked all these computers, you know, and took down so many different types of services.
Like, Rooster was saying Delta passengers were stranded in Atlanta for upwards of five or six days because they couldn't get the software going again to arrange pilots and flight crew to make it to To the correct [01:13:00] flights at the right time.
**Pagoda:** I'm so glad I got out of CrowdStrike right before. Did you? No, I
**Gizmo:** did.
I did,
**Pagoda:** but that was a while before.
**Gizmo:** It's just crazy that one company can take down so many, uh, global, global services like that. All right, boys, we're coming into the last third on the Byron 21st century. Elehantis. What's everybody thinking?
**Chef Ricky:** I think it's called the elegantis. Uh, but aside from that, I think, I mean, Ricky, I mean, I've only been Spanish lessons.
**Gizmo:** Come on
**Chef Ricky:** now.
**Gizmo:** I've been doing pretty good so far on this episode. Yeah, but how are they
**Pagoda:** going? How are your lessons coming along?
**Gizmo:** You can tell, aren't they going great?
**Pagoda:** They are.
**Gizmo:** I really thought I was saying it correctly. And I'm glad you took you an hour 15 to correct me. I
**Chef Ricky:** appreciate the effort. I could tell you're really trying.
**Gizmo:** I'm trying. I can't roll my R's yet, but we'll get there.
**Chef Ricky:** That, that, that, that's a little bit tough.
**Gizmo:** Just, just work on Oaxaca.
**Chef Ricky:** Oaxaca.
**Gizmo:** What do
**Senator:** they call
**Chef Ricky:** it? I don't know. That wasn't good. What'd you say? You almost [01:14:00] crashed your car. I almost crashed my car. I'm listening to that pod.
**Gizmo:** After you said that word 700 times on the mezcal deep dive, I got it wrong.
So what are you guys getting on the cigar?
**Chef Ricky:** It's great. It still is, uh, you know, it hasn't really changed much from, uh, the first, maybe, you know, two thirds, uh, but I am getting a little bit of coffee here, not like fresh ground, you know, or not fresh ground coffee or anything like that. But, you know, if you're drinking a black coffee and almost the flavor that's left in your mouth afterwards is, is, is a lot of what I'm getting here, uh, it reminds me almost of you make a coffee in a mocha pot and, you know, you're kind of getting that.
That makes that combination aroma or flavor of coffee and, and some metallic note, uh, doesn't sound pleasant, but it, it, it is a pleasant memory for me. I love it. It's a great cigar. Um, I think I need more scotch to kind of weigh in a little bit more on the, we can make that happen. My last sip was more of a [01:15:00] gulp.
And then I was. really able to get more of the bourbon notes, some more sort of toffee, vanilla. Uh, I think originally because of the high proof, I was just sort of sipping it, taking it slow. And I think the peatiness really kind of sticks out. But if you take larger gulps, um, or swigs or sips, uh, you get more of the flavor of the spirit and that, Overall pairs better with the cigar.
**Pagoda:** You could just put a chip of ice and you'll get the same. Or a scoop. You put about 17 chips. Welcome chef Ricky.
**Chef Ricky:** I tell you, man, ice just numbs the flavor. Ice cools it down too much. It's going to numb the flavor. It's going to remove a lot of what I'm, I know it's going to remove a lot, a lot of what I'm tasting now, and it's going to just make it watery.
**Senator:** I just got to say, this is fun to see that the tables kind of turn with, uh, with Ricky. normally we're having a mezcal and we're [01:16:00] like, wow, this is hot. This is intense. And we've got to build up to taking the gulp and settling in. And with Scott, you're having to do this. You said you were slowly sipping at first, the high proof, and then you took the plunge and now you're getting.
Yeah.
**Chef Ricky:** And it's because I'm not used to Pete. You know, I'm not, I don't, I've. I don't buy Petey scotches. Like I said, I, you know, I'm, I'm a big, obviously fan of the podcast. I rely heavily on you guys as recommendations. And I think my palate aligns a lot with how you guys taste things. So yes, I do gravitate more towards the McAllen's and the double woods, uh, that are more like Sherry forward, a lot sweeter, a lot creamier, longer lasting.
This scotch is a little bit drier. Um, which is why you need. Bigger swigs to kind of, you know, get that to latch on to that flavor. Um, but yeah, I think the Pete was a bit, um, I guess off putting at first for me, especially with the cigar.
**Pagoda:** But after the three sips, it was better, wasn't [01:17:00] it?
**Chef Ricky:** Yeah, seven sips and a gulp.
Yeah, it was, uh, What
**Gizmo:** I think I'm finding with, with this Balvenie, this Petey or Balvenie expression that we're having tonight, it's very much aligned with the, Something you said on the Mezcal episode, which was, you know, when we were trying a bunch of those, three of those Mezcals for the first time on the podcast, you had mentioned something about your palate adjusting and your palate getting used to the spirit as you drink it.
And even as I've taken a few more sips, as we've been talking, uh, Over the last half hour, let's say I'm not getting as much of that Pete and I'm getting more of the essence of what Balvini was trying to do with the spirit. And the Pete is kind of taming. And at the same time, as the cigar progresses along, it's very much aligning with what I I'm finding interesting about the cigar.
I'm getting a little bit of a salty thing. It's picked up a little bit for me. I agree with you that the flavor hasn't necessarily changed since kind of that halfway point. It's just. Enhanced a little bit or gotten heated up [01:18:00] maybe or it's just gotten a little bit more closer closer to full And I think the the spirit is actually aligning very very well with how it's progressing along
**Chef Ricky:** I'm just curious.
Is there a Balvini that's Peter than this? No, not that we've
**Pagoda:** found no that we
**Senator:** found Yeah, this is the first one not the 14 not the 17 not the 21 and that's the All their standard production stuff. So if there is, it's gotta be something limited production. And I
**Gizmo:** gotta imagine that the 25, I think, or the higher end expression, even than the 21, I think we talked about that on that port, where there's no way that that's leaning Pete.
That's gotta definitely be leaning more Sherry Sweet. Now, I've never
**Chef Ricky:** been here for a Cuban rum episode, but how do you guys think this cigar will pair with, uh Havana Club. I think it would be excellent. Very good. Yeah. It would
**Pagoda:** be brilliant with an X.
**Senator:** And the one we drank yesterday. That's right. We're gonna, we're gonna do this on the pod.
The Flor year rum, similar to the Havana Club 7 year we like. I didn't mean to make a model of this. Yeah, I gotta pick it up. It's, it was very easy to make. Too easy drinking, [01:19:00] like Havana Club can be.
**Gizmo:** I, I think this cigar, to your question, I think this would work very, very well with almost, maybe all of the different types of spirits we do on the podcast.
You know, you think about cognac, you think about tequila, you think about mezcal, Mezcal, for sure. Obviously, we're drinking scotch tonight. Rum, wine, I think it'd be brilliant. Like, I think this cigar is very versatile. Champagne? Champagne, it would
**Senator:** be great.
**Gizmo:** Yeah,
**Senator:** I think it'd be Butteriness there, yeah, and the minerality, I mean, my goodness.
**Gizmo:** And we've compared this tonight to a Cuban cigar a little bit, and I'm sure we'll hear more of that as we get into the ratings, but I think unlike a Cuban cigar, This, this cigar that we're smoking tonight, while it has some of those things, I don't think it would be overpowered by some of those spirits that we drink.
You know, maybe, maybe a higher proof bourbon would overpower this a little bit, arguably. But I think even that, I think it would perform very, very well alongside most everything that we do.
**Chef Ricky:** I feel Don Folano would do amazing with this too. I agree. I think Tequila [01:20:00] would do very well with this. What about the
**Pagoda:** Netto?
And then, uh, the Mezcal, possibly, right. Because that had a little bit of the berries. And you'd be able to, yeah.
**Senator:** I'm just so relieved. Honestly, I, I cigar having never heard of this at all. And most of the time I feel like, you know, we're constantly trying to explore and find new things. Most of the time, we're disappointed.
Sometimes we're really pleasantly surprised and this has been a shock.
**Gizmo:** And I was hesitant not just because of the The Atabay experience that we had, obviously coming from the same manufacturer as Atabay, bringing price into that as well, really kind of scared me, like, am I bringing in a near 40 cigar to the room tonight?
That's going to take a long time to smoke. It's a big cigar. Like, is this going to be, as we described last week with that Ramon Iones, uh, he got this, is this going to be a, you know, death by a thousand puffs?
**Pagoda:** Yeah.
**Senator:** And also it's just not the case. Also when a cigar is at that [01:21:00] price point that your expectation is higher and it should be, it should be.
**Chef Ricky:** Yes. Initially, I was worried. That's why I was worried this. I guess this is my third pod with you guys as a substitute teacher or closer as principal principle. Now, um, yeah, the between the Fonseca and, and the Ramon, uh, uh, uh, Jonas, uh, he got this. That was, uh, Yeah, the first one was a super mild offering.
The second one was death by a thousand puffs or 600 in Grinder's case. Puba's
**Gizmo:** case. Puba put it down halfway through. Puba's case, yeah.
**Chef Ricky:** So yeah, this is, this is very pleasant. By the
**Pagoda:** way, now I figured out why. You use a GSL and because in the GSL, listen,
**Gizmo:** my next Spanish episode, we will be talking about these two different words.
He got this and L L a Gantas. We will be talking about these two words in, uh, in my next Spanish lesson, because I'm confused. I'll be honest.
**Pagoda:** Listen, the principles here and a vocabulary is only going to increase.
**Chef Ricky:** I will say [01:22:00] this. The J is always an H. Anytime you see a J, it's an H.
**Gizmo:** What about G's? They can go back and forth?
**Chef Ricky:** Apparently. Alright.
**Gizmo:** So, you know, the one thing I wanted to talk about, cause I, I went to Florida, very similar timeline that the Senator was in Chicago, and I, I went to a lounge down there where I was, I was on the very eastern side of Florida, kind of about an, I guess I would say an hour northeast of West Palm and I went to a great lounge there and I was talking to the owner because I went there three times in the time I was there and I was the only person in there and my father in law who I was with on vacation also went with me one of the times and we were the only two people there that time and I was talking to the owner because I had been there the year prior and And it was a very different experience in that the lounge was completely empty this time.
And I was shocked, it's a beautiful place, well stocked humidor, great, you know, service, you bring what you want, nice, you know, beer [01:23:00] and, and, and wine selection and whatnot. And the owner was telling me that he has like a consortium of other, you know, like another, a group of other cigar lounge owners. down in Florida, and they're all experiencing a very, very down season this year, you know, comparable to last year and the year before that.
And obviously, given what Senator was just telling us about his experience in Chicago, I'm wondering if folks are just not venturing out to the lounges. Are people busier? Is it an economic thing? Like, I'm really curious why, certainly I sensed it in Florida. And I don't, you know, obviously you hadn't been to that place in Chicago before for a comparison point.
But Pagoda, for you at Carnegie in the city, have you sensed any difference, not even compared to season versus off season? Summer, obviously folks can smoke outside, but are you sensing that it's different than it has been in summers past?
**Pagoda:** It has been quieter for sure. Um, so typically at Carnegie, when he goes in the [01:24:00] fall and the winter, uh, it is difficult to find a seat.
A lot of people are recommended, you know, my suggestion is if you do come to the New York area and you want to go to Carnegie, just call them up and just get a reservation so that, you know, you enjoy yourself some seating because, you know, oftentimes that people just standing around and smoking by the bar.
But in the summer, you find, like, in the last couple of weeks, um, you know, you can walk in. There are a few, uh, areas of, you know, few seating areas which are empty, you know, people are walking in and out. So there's been, you know, I'm trying to compare it with last summer because I don't think last summer dropped that much.
But this summer, I think people may be traveling more. If you remember last
**Gizmo:** summer, you and I were at Carnegie a few times and it was pretty damn busy.
**Pagoda:** It was busy.
**Gizmo:** I went there one night and I couldn't get in because the place was sold out. And it was in July or August.
**Pagoda:** So, not sure whether people are traveling more, or people are back to work.
I'm not sure. [01:25:00] Um, but you know, it's, you know, we'll have to wait and see because is the boom really over, or it's uh, subsiding? You know, uh, only time will tell.
**Gizmo:** And I think, you know, if you bring in the economic consideration where You know, you think about the Amazon mentality. We all have instant gratification.
You go online, you don't pay tax from a lot of these retailers shipping out of Pennsylvania and others, other states, you're getting cigars for potentially 20, 30, 40 percent less, maybe comparable to New York city. Is there an Amazon type factor where you sit at home? You place the order, it shows up the next day, you've saved 40%.
Is that driving folks to not go to the lounge? Is that driving folks to not go to their local brick and mortar and support their tobacconist? I think it's also something to
**Rooster:** do with the summer season. People are smoking outside more. They can smoke at home. They can smoke on their decks or their patios.
Maybe they're not frequenting the lounge as much.
**Chef Ricky:** I think it's all of the above. I think, you know, there's, I mean, being in restaurants, you always see a [01:26:00] slowdown this time of this time of year. Um, But yeah, I think economically people are definitely making, you know, more cost conscious decisions. And that definitely leads to more online purchasing.
I don't know about arriving next day. I haven't found an online retailer, retailer that gets me my sick cards the next day.
**Gizmo:** Most of the Pennsylvania retailers that we buy from, namely Atlantic. I mean, you order something, you know, before noon, before noon it, you have it the next day. Yeah. And you're not paying a premium for that.
**Chef Ricky:** But yeah, I, I think it's, it's every, you know, a lot of people are in new homes and, you know, I've just purchased a home. So now I have a beautiful deck to smoke on. So when I get, you know, do I judge Edie off a little bit when he's here at 12 o'clock in the afternoon and it's a beautiful day and I'm like, you know, sitting in your backyard, it's gorgeous.
But yeah. Um, yeah, I think it's, I think all of those things add to it. I think the cigar boom is very real. Like I'm bumping into a lot of people, um, or maybe I'm just getting older and, you know, the people that I [01:27:00] know are in, you know, shifting demographics. Yeah, I think that's what's happening, but I'm definitely surprised to see how many people are smoking cigars that maybe didn't before or just interested in them.
Um, and some of them women, you know, and,
**Pagoda:** and to add to that, uh, a lot of younger people, you know, in fact, the last Thursday was, uh, when I was at Carnegie, there were a lot of younger What's younger to you? I'm talking about like, you know, in their late twenties, early thirties, no, like really like, um, You know, I think when there was always this time, you know, in the, uh, Wall Street boom, uh, you know, time where younger guys, when they would do well, you know, when they were doing deals or, you know, uh, just making some, you know, extra money, whether it was related to the market or not.
You'd find a lot of the young guys at least explore and, you know, maybe we are a part of that, you know, era. Um, recently I've [01:28:00] seen a lot of younger, we actually were commenting on that because a lot of the people around us were much, much younger. And it's fantastic to see that it is catching on, uh, in the younger generation.
And so this industry is here to stay because, you know, sometimes you get worried because people get priced out. Sure. Right. Because. The way the prices have gone and they've tripled and, you know, one could blame it for a hundred different reasons, including inflation. Uh, but the idea is that, you know, cigars should be accessible to a lot of different variety of people.
And so from that perspective, uh, seeing that was very encouraging.
**Rooster:** Cigar sales are not down. No, they're up.
**Senator:** They continue. I mean, even the quarterly data that they always release, the Cigar Trade Associations, They've been up every quarter this year, not a huge amount, but they continue to increase.
**Rooster:** Yeah, I guess the true, you know, sign would be in the fall to see if the folks are back in the lounges smoking when they're not able to smoke in their [01:29:00] house or outside.
**Senator:** And people are traveling more this summer. I mean, I just even looked up, all the airlines are saying this summer compared to last is up like six, seven percent in terms of air travel. So people are definitely leaving home. Going places and work from home has
**Gizmo:** adjusted quite a bit. I mean, companies are moving from that model back to the on the road in the office type of model.
So, you know, that's definitely got to be a factor. But I think, you know, for me and for us and for what we do here, it's like we want to see these local brick and mortar shops, these local tobacconists. Not only survive, but thrive. So, you know, we obviously do this here, but it's also for our listeners out there, go to your local brick and mortar, buy a couple of cigars, support them on a regular basis, even if you're not spending time there per se, you're not buying a lot of stuff, just go out and support your local tobacco and it's because.
This ecosystem that we have here, once it starts to disappear, we know from regulation, we know from various municipality laws, we know from, you know, how things have [01:30:00] gone with tobacco in the United States and around the world, uh, you know, new shops are going to have difficult times popping up. So we want to support the ones that.
Have done right by what we do here and, and we want to go and buy from them. So definitely do
**Senator:** that. Judge Mata is only going to live so long. That's true.
**Gizmo:** We need another judge Mata.
**Chef Ricky:** Yeah, it's, it's a, it's a duty of ours as, you know, partakers in this hobby and this. Lifestyle to, you know, you know, to be customers of brick and mortars to, uh, buy memberships to the CRA so that they continue fighting for us and for what we love.
Um, you know, those are just like two very, Basic things that we should be doing, uh, cigar smokers. Um, and supporting what we, you know, what we love. Uh, cause yeah, it will, it will disappear or it will fall to the background. I think we'll always find a way because, you know, and those that love it will find a way.
But yeah, [01:31:00] we can't let it just sort of disappear.
**Gizmo:** And listen, the online retailers do not offer us physical spaces to sit and smoke in. And physical spaces to sit and meet other lizards in. Yeah, those online retailers do not
**Senator:** offer that. And on that, the thing that's so important for people to remember is in every city, the licenses that these businesses have to allow indoor cigar smoking are non-transferable.
And so when that business goes out, that's it. That's it. It's over. It's gone. I mean, this has happened in New York, right? The Grand Havana room. No longer exists. That license they had in that building cannot be transferred. There will not be another Grand Havana room at another location that can just pop up.
So, it's just sad, like, that's how we've gotten to this point. And the more of those we lose, I mean, there easily can be a world in which you're in a major city, and there's nowhere to sit down indoors. And enjoy a cigar.
**Rooster:** The solution is to make them all into historic sites. Lower the [01:32:00] taxes. And, uh,
**Gizmo:** and you, and you think about, you know, let's put the city aside, New York city, or some of these other big cities with, you know, folks with a lot of money that are able to do this.
We're talking about a lot of these places are in small municipalities around the country, around the world. And they're owned and operated. By lizards, they're owned and operated by people who went into this business because they fell in love with this lifestyle and this hobby is as chef Ricky mentioned, it's like we need to support them.
**Pagoda:** No, absolutely. Lounges are extremely important for the ecosystem, right? Meaning you think about a lizard. We always talk about us being a part of a community, right? Yes, you could smoke at home on the deck on a beautiful day, but you're typically smoking alone. You know, if you are able to support a lounge within your community, you're more likely to develop friendships, have great conversations, you know, great experiences and, you know, contribute to the ecosystem.
Uh, lounges are extremely important.
**Chef Ricky:** Yeah, and [01:33:00] I, I encourage those, cause I, you know, at times I can be fairly introverted. Um, a cigar is a great equalizer, you know. And so I encourage those that maybe find comfort just kind of staying at home. Find your local cigar lounge. Patronize it and be a patron of it and, and experience what there is to offer.
You know, maybe there is another member there, another smoker there. Maybe there isn't, maybe you just strike up a conversation with the worker or the owner of the establishment. Um, and that could just be super enlightening and could lead to so many things, uh, you know, look. Me joining this lounge here has led to me being on this podcast and knowing you guys and it's been an amazing journey and, uh, quite the experience.
**Pagoda:** I think we should live by the mantra, you know, I lived in Austin for a couple of years and you walk into the airport and they say, keep Austin weird. And the idea, and there's a huge movement over there to support local businesses. [01:34:00] And, you know, I think if we have that mentality, you know, In the local communities, wherever we are, I think it's, uh, you know, something to really adhere to and live by, uh, I think, and it only benefits everybody within the community.
**Gizmo:** I guess to what we're all saying, I mean, the likelihood that you're going to go to your local lounge and you're going to step out of your house and you're going to put some clothes on and take your cigars and that you're going to meet some like minded folks. I mean, we've all done it. Right. This podcast wouldn't exist had it not been for a local B& M that we all met at.
And then now at a second lounge, we met Ricky and all of our friends here at this lounge. It's like, you know, going there and finding those like minded people, putting an appointment on the calendar, a standing Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday night of the week that, you know, the group of you get together and.
You know, do something like we do, and we just sit together, mics or not, and we smoke and we talk and blow off some steam and, and, and, you know, talk about what's going on in the world. I mean, it's a really healthy thing, and it's, it's just, everybody wins when, when these local lounges and [01:35:00] brick and mortars survive and thrive.
So we all need to do it. And it was just a little freaky to me when I was talking to this owner of this beautiful lounge down there. And, and, uh, you know, he's telling me that his business is down in local, other local shops in the area are also down. So hopefully it's not a course that's going to be negative for, for what we do.
Hopefully, uh, hopefully it turns around.
**Chef Ricky:** Prior to coming out of the pod, I was climbing with my kids, taking them to a local climbing gym. And, uh, I don't know if you guys remember the, the, uh, text I sent you guys of my son, who, he was missing me, right? I had a long week last week, and, uh, he was I get home, probably around 10 o'clock at night, and he's It's playing PlayStation and he has an AirPod in his ear and I'm like, what are you listening to?
And he pulls out his phone and uh, he shows me his phone screen and it's the Lounge of Lizards podcast. He thought it was the coolest thing ever. Never start them too early.
**Pagoda:** I'm a little, they're the proud dad over here. So he was
**Chef Ricky:** listening
**Gizmo:** [01:36:00] to dad on the
**Chef Ricky:** podcast. Exactly. And he was like, and just before I left them, um, He's like that.
Can you shout me out on the podcast today? So it's just funny. Uh, so Ethan, this is for you, but
**Senator:** cheers to Ethan. Cheers to Ethan. I also loved, you said he asked you, someone's really named Gizmo. He's like, do parents name
**Chef Ricky:** their kids that?
**Pagoda:** Well, he looks like one. I'll let mama and Papa Giz know.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys, we're moving into the end of our evening here with the Byron 21st century Elegantis and the 14 years aged Balvenie Curious Cask Selection Limited Edition.
**Pagoda:** Any final thoughts before we move it to the ratings? The pairing has been great. Yeah. The cigar has been fantastic. Uh, you know, considering the price point and, you know, our experiences with, uh, Adobe, uh, you know, I was, uh, a bit, uh, you know, um, skeptical before, uh, you know, uh, getting on [01:37:00] this journey, but this has been fantastic.
What a pleasant surprise.
**Chef Ricky:** Do you guys think it's worth trying another Atabay at some point? This
**Gizmo:** does make me think like maybe we should try another Atabay in the future. For sure. That
**Rooster:** Votola just wasn't the guy. Yeah, could have been. A lot of guys talk about the Lancero. I can't bring
**Gizmo:** in a Lancero that we had that conversation.
**Rooster:** No, after doing like the 50, the 54, 55, the 60, the 80, hang on, hang on. And
**Chef Ricky:** next week we're doing the Woody, right? That's exactly, exactly. 80 by 8. Yeah,
**Senator:** you got it. Here's my problem why I still have an axe to grind with Attabay, and I'm, I'm honestly not excited to try any of their other cigars. The price point is absurd.
I mean, we've talked about, you know, and Davidoff is as premium a price point as it comes in cigars. And we even get upset when we buy a 50 Davidoff and review this on the pod. And the expectation is this better be damn well close to perfect. Just be 50 for any cigar. I mean, that Davidoff Maduro, we were pleasantly [01:38:00] surprised, lived up to a really high price point.
So, my frustration with Atabay is like, I don't know that they make anything that is at a price point that I would ever feel is appropriate or needed to spend regularly. to enjoy a really great premium cigar. So that's what I'm having a hard time with, with that brand.
**Pagoda:** You know, with this kind of pricing, it becomes an indulgence, right?
It's not like a day to day cigar or a frequent cigar. And you know, I think, and I'm sure that, you know, pricing is an extremely important component when these guys are making these strategic decisions when they're coming out with these cigars, considering that they're limited editions, I could imagine that.
You know, they want to try and, you know, max out the profitability for sure. But, uh, it'd be great when you get this quality of a cigar at a reasonable price. And then now you have a lot more people smoking this, talking about it and, you know, just, um, experiencing something that they really enjoy at an affordable price point.
So,
**Rooster:** yeah, but I [01:39:00] think we would all buy the, buy this cigar. A real book.
**Pagoda:** Yeah.
**Senator:** Yeah. But this is not 50. That's my point. And I would think 30 something bucks. If we
**Gizmo:** did the Atabay, we did a Robusto. I think it was 50 a Toro, a Toro extra. Like we had tonight, something like that. You're probably looking at closer to 60 or even 70 now.
Cause we did that a hundred episodes ago. The prices certainly have gone up since then. So I would assume that Atabay is going to be a pricey cigar, you know, at a, at a larger Vitola, which is terribly unfortunate.
**Pagoda:** You know, uh, Chef Ricky and I, we were talking a little bit about this, and I think the great thing about the podcast, and you know, people always say, you know, how do you add value, it's because typically, you know, most people are not going to try 150 cigars.
**Gizmo:** Yep.
**Pagoda:** What we're trying to do is socialize it for you. We are the ones who are trying it for you, and giving an opinion about seven people, you know, seven people are typically trying to give their opinion on it. which gives you at least some kind of confidence that, Hey, if you [01:40:00] do want to shell out 50 bucks or 70 bucks, uh, you know, what are you going to experience?
And so just trying it off of the store or off the rack. And, and so, you know, so, Hey, shout out to us.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys, it's time to move into the form of liquor rating now on the Balvenie curious casks collection, 14 year aged. Ricky, you're up.
**Chef Ricky:** You know, I came around on this, uh, so I'm gonna give it an 8. Okay. Uh, for me, it's, uh, it still leans a little bit pete ier than, I guess, what I was expecting. It's not that I don't, uh, like it, obviously I gave it an 8, so I do.
Uh, I think it's a good, uh, Sort of a gateway scotch into the world of Pete. I didn't give it as high rating just because I think there's spirits out there that'll pair better with this cigar. Um, but the spirit on its own, I will drink it again. I will drink it [01:41:00] neat, but I'll probably wait till it gets a little bit cooler outside.
Um, so, you know, with that, I'm, I'm, I'm happy with my eight there.
**Pagoda:** Or you could cool it down by adding a, uh, piece of, uh,
**Chef Ricky:** It's not the temperature.
**Pagoda:** The
**Chef Ricky:** principal's going to suspend you. Oh, I'm sorry. It's not
**Gizmo:** the temperature. The ice wars that have started. This is amazing. Pagoda, you're up.
**Pagoda:** You know, it pains me to say, but I think I agree with Chef Ricky on this.
I'll give it an eight. I think considering the price point, it was about a hundred bucks on this. Um, I didn't even take that into account. Yeah, and you know, it was, uh, you know, pity, which is fine. Um, it, uh, you know, after adding a few ice chips, I really did enjoy it. It was vibrant and, but you know, then for me, it's like, if it's not really, out of the world or something which is really exciting, you know, I'll stick to the ones I really respect.
**Chef Ricky:** Your scotch is equal parts ice to scotch. I watched Senator elegantly add one chip of ice, two chips of ice [01:42:00] max. And then you made so much noise because of all the ice you put in your glass. No, because you distracted me. You were like, Hey, what's going on over there? You're having scotch and water. No, but I, I just like,
**Pagoda:** I compensated by pouring some more and I've left it with the same, but I get to the original.
You're closer to the original ratio. You brought it down
**Chef Ricky:** to 35 proof.
**Pagoda:** No wonder it's tasting that much better. It's an eight for me.
**Gizmo:** So for me, it's a nine boys. I actually really enjoyed the Scotch tonight. The first few sips, as we discussed, we're a little Petey. So I was a little shocked by that feeling Pete with the Balvenie, right? The Balvenie is a Scotch that we drink.
We've, we've had it in, in three other formats or four other formats on the podcast, uh, in the past, we drink a lot of the 12 year double wood. We drink a lot of the 14 year Caribbean cask. I think. It just was a little [01:43:00] shocking, but as we went along, as the cigar progressed, as the scotch opened up and my palate adjusted, I found it to be a really, really easy to drink scotch, a little lighter than what we would have expected, but I think it worked really well for the cigar, and I actually kind of liked the touch of peininess as we went along, so I'm very, very happy with it, uh, and I'm very, very solid at a nine.
Senator,
**Senator:** so I'm, I'm at an eight. I actually really enjoyed the scotch. I think the thing that stood out to me, you know, when I saw the proof on the bottle, I was a little nervous. I mean, this almost 100 proof spirit. I really love when a higher proof spirit can be delivered in a way that is still approachable.
I think for most scotch are just Uh, whiskey drinkers. Generally. Um, I thought it was fairly complex in that you got that Pete up front, but then there were a lot of different, you know, the, the citrus I did eventually get some of the vanilla. Um, so I think there's complexity to it, which is [01:44:00] great. And I think we all started by saying we would not have recognized this is Balvinie.
But by the end of it, you do see the Balvini DNA there. Yep. No, absolutely. And so, I give them credit for like, they are not known at all for veering into a PDR Scotch, but I think that this is like, their style and their attempt to do it, and I actually think they did it really well. I still got some of the Balvenie notes that I normally would look for and enjoy on the finish just with that peat and I thought it was also the right amount like as much as we said it was prominent it never got so overpowering where it ruined the cigar or just the experience of the spirit itself so I think there's a lot of merit to it I think anyone who likes Balvenie you Ought to try it.
And I think anyone who likes a Petey or Scotch and wouldn't normally pick up Balvenie ought to pick up a bottle of this. So a solid eight for me.
**Pagoda:** Actually, that's a really good point because I know a lot of my friends who are really into Petey Scotches and, and I think they might really, really enjoy this.
But, [01:45:00] you know, because Oban does have a little bit of peatiness, I think is way milder. Like the, you know, the contribution of peatiness to the drink is more towards the end. I think it comes and finishes off with a slight peatiness. Um, and for me, the way I look at it is, you know, I would rather get the Caribbean cask, which is slightly cheaper or the open, which is also slightly cheaper than this particular bottle.
And that's why it's an eight because it is a very pleasant scotch. Don't get me wrong, especially with a couple of chips of ice. Uh, but, um, yeah, and that's why I said it did pay me to, uh, you know, give the A rating, but it's, it's been a fantastic experience nonetheless.
**Gizmo:** Alright boys, so that puts the formal liquor rating on the Balvenie Curious Casks Collection Limited Edition 14 years aged.
And an 8. 3. So let's compare that to the other Balvenie we've done on the podcast. We've done the Balvenie 14 year age Caribbean cast two times. First was on episode three. We didn't [01:46:00] rate it. And on episode 72, we re revisited it and we gave it a 9. 2. The 12 year Doublewood we referenced a few times tonight on episode 17.
We give that a 9. 2. And on episode 100, the 21 year age Portwood Balvenie. We gave a 9. 7. So this comes in just around nine points lower than the Balvenie 14 and the 12 year Doublewood, which both scored a 9. 2.
**Pagoda:** I do think that's a fair score though.
**Gizmo:** I think so.
**Pagoda:** Yeah. And
**Gizmo:** I think factoring in the price at 100, 110, I think it's appropriate.
I mean, you're getting a bottle of Balvenie 12 year Doublewood for what? 70 bucks?
**Pagoda:** 60.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, 60, 70 bucks. The 14 year Caribbean cask, a little bit more than that. You know, that price jumped to, you know, three digits over a hundred. You know, it, it certainly factors in there. And I think that's fair,
**Chef Ricky:** just curious that the cigars that were paired with those expressions, were they also equally rated as high or
**Gizmo:** so the on episode 100, there's no question.
We did the Padron 50 years [01:47:00] Maduro, which scored a 9. 9 on episode 72. We did the H upman Robustos Anahatos, the Cuban that scored a 9. 6. That was a good one as well. And finally on the 12 year age, double wood. From Balvenie, episode 17, we did that with the Padron 1964 torpedo in natural. We did that because, uh, that one won cigar of the year, I think, right?
**Pagoda:** Yeah. Uh, and
**Gizmo:** that scored an 8. 7, that cigar. So yeah, the cigars were pretty good on all of those episodes.
**Chef Ricky:** I think around the room, everybody's palate leans. And it's, it's interesting cause this isn't the case of champagne or wine, but when it comes to spirits, everyone's palate leans a little bit sweeter.
**Pagoda:** Yeah.
**Chef Ricky:** Sweeter. I would agree with that. And low proof.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Especially as it relates to drinking cigars, you know, smoking cigars while you're, while you're having the spirit.
**Chef Ricky:** And then, you know, from, yeah, the, the padrones and whatnot, there's a lot of dried fruit notes on those sticks. So yeah, I think those pairings are probably more, [01:48:00] uh, uh, an easier match if you will.
All
**Gizmo:** right, boys, it's time to move into the formal lizard rating now on the Byron 21st century in elegantes. Rusty, you're up.
**Rooster:** I
**Gizmo:** mean,
**Rooster:** I think we were all very pleasantly surprised with the cigar. I mean, we didn't know what to expect with this. I mean, this cigar is one of the very few cigars when you pick up a new world and you almost think it has Cuban esque qualities or flavors or notes.
It's, you know, it's uncanny like that. There's no other that really comes to mind. That's a, that's a Cubanist type cigar in a new world. The cigar started off kind of a little bit on the milder side for me, but it, it picked up as it went along, you know, and the halfway point it picked up. And then again, towards the end, it picked up the notes that we got.
I mean, from the creaminess, the, uh, the berry note, the shortbread note, I even got like a, you know, like a caramel sweetness, even a little bit of a citrus note in [01:49:00] the middle. Um, it was, it was fantastic. Great, great, great cigar, great construction, great draw, uh, great smoke output. I mean, it's everything that you look for in a cigar.
Uh, so I'm going to give it a solid nine. Senator.
**Pagoda:** No, I'm just kidding. I thought, I thought like the way you described it, it was like going to be a 20.
Senator.
**Senator:** Um, I'm in lockstep with Rooster on this. I'm also at a nine. Um, the thing that just stands out, there's not another cigar like it. And I, those are the cigars I get the most excited about. I mean, we've smoked hundreds of cigars. And when you find something that you wouldn't directly compare to another stick and say, this is, you know, like a Padron Exusibar, this is like a Davidoff.
Um, those are the memorable sticks. And I would definitely smoke this again. I think the larger ring gauge actually worked really well for this cigar. I [01:50:00] think like all the creaminess and complexity, I'm going to thank the rest of the group and tuxedo Timmy.
**Chef Ricky:** Shout out tuxedo Tim.
**Senator:** That's right. But, uh, the creaminess in the cigar and just the complexity of flavor, I feel like just with the larger ring gauge was perfect to deliver that.
Um, I think it was a well constructed, you know, we didn't really mention this, but the wrapper itself. Invisible seams. I mean, actually like a very beautiful looking cigar. And I think there's something here for everybody, which is not the case, you know, with most cigars, you know, most sticks are really meant for a certain type of smoker.
And I think whether you like mild cigar, medium cigar, or even a medium full cigar, there's something to appreciate for everybody here. So, um, a strong nine and, um, I would love to try more, uh, you know, from this brand. And the last thing I'll say the price point, I think 30 something At this size and what it delivers is very fair.
And so, [01:51:00] you know, I, I hope, uh, Adobe maybe takes a page out of Byron's book and comes down in price a bit, but this was, this was a great experience all the way through.
**Gizmo:** So I'm also at a nine. I thought the cigar was fantastic. I think it was a two act play or maybe a two and a half act play. I think that last act.
Just kind of increased in intensity, maybe as the cigar heated up, but the last half was, was excellent. And I just really enjoyed the journey. I enjoyed that, that kind of chill opening and the way it developed in the, into the first third and into the second half. I just, I, I'm really, really shocked about it.
I think that it would be great for any smoker as we talked about. I think a new world smoker can appreciate this. I think a Cuban cigar smoker would appreciate this. I think, you know, as Pagoda said, you know, This is a cigar that, that, that works for any type of pallet. You know, Pagoda's pallet is, is one that weans a lot heavier.
Usually I know it's come down over, over time as far as intensity that you seek out, but the fact that all [01:52:00] of us with the differing pallets we have in the room have enjoyed this as much as we have. I think it was a shock. I think
**Senator:** it would even work well for guys who put a lot of ice in their
**Gizmo:** drinks.
**Chef Ricky:** At that point, your pallet's so. cold. It doesn't really taste the
**Pagoda:** heat. All traditional Scotch drinkers are going to hate me now, but hey, listen.
**Gizmo:** The one thing I will say, you know, maybe, maybe, you know, uh, against what Senator just said, I think the price coming up on 40 for this cigar is a little too high.
I think it should be closer to 30 or high twenties. You know, I closer to what Davidoff might charge for a cigar of this size and a regular production, but.
**Senator:** So I, I want to challenge that and I'm usually very militant about price should not exceed a certain level when it comes to cigars. The reason I challenge that, I mean, we're all saying that this is one of the closest things to a Cuban cigar in the new world space.
And a Cuban cigar that is of this size is going to be [01:53:00] 40. I mean, I can't really argue with the
**Rooster:** price point. What cigar Cuban cigar in this size, would you even compare this to? Yeah, but I eat too. I mean, the size wise. Yeah. Size wise. And that's why the price would
**Gizmo:** be similar. I'm also thinking new world, walking into a brick and mortar, buying a cigar.
I mean, you can get some of the best Padron's out there. We get, we get 50 year. The hammer Maduro's for, for around 40, you know, when we purchased them. So, you know, there, there is this question for me of like reaching for a 40 cigar. Is this one going to be the one? I'm not sure, but I still thought it was a great cigar and I enjoyed every aspect of the journey.
**Senator:** My only final point on this is I don't think that you can find another new world cigar that delivers these flavor notes, period. And so because of that, like, you know, you have to charge a premium for that. You know, as much as I love Padrone, there are other more accessibly priced sticks that deliver Padrone esque flavor [01:54:00] notes.
They don't do it as well as Padrone, but there's enough there. I mean, we've talked about the Aging Room, that's an 8 stick, Padrone esque flavors. There's nothing else that I could point someone to in the New World space and say, you know, if you're not going to spend the 38 on this cigar, you're going to get a lot of those same notes, maybe not as good.
I, I wouldn't know what else to tell them to get.
**Gizmo:** I thought it was great. I mean, we're at the same rating. We're both at a nine, right? You know, the, the other thing, the combustion on this cigar was fantastic. The smoke was effortless. The draw was perfect. The construction was brilliant. I mean, all of us had inch, two inch ash at some point, you know, that, that didn't fall all over our shirts was actually, I was having trouble knocking it off in the ashtray.
It was very, very well constructed. Pagoda does have a little ash all over them, but I'm very, very happy to nine. And I thought the cigar was fantastic. Pagoda, you're
**Pagoda:** up. Uh, it's a 10 for me. Uh, wow. Yeah. That's the ice speaking guys. No, no doubt about it. You know, [01:55:00] my thought with it is, you know, so I become scared.
I used to smoke a lot of Toros and, you know, we've discussed why, right. Because they were accessible. I always, I'm a value driven man. I've. Volvo's enjoy the Taurus because for an extra buck or two you get a more sizable, you know, uh, of a cigar and you can spend more time smoking it. Having said that, over the years, obviously things have changed quite a bit, right?
Um, in Davidoffs which I really enjoy, the Taurus have not been spectacular at all. You know, we, we like either the Churchill's or the Robusta's and, All my Dominicanas, which I really love, all Robustos. Having said that, you know, smoking a Toro, once again, at a size which I really enjoyed till the end, through and through, you know, that's just talking about the size, right?
Having said that, in terms of the flavor profile, from the very beginning, you, you know, you, [01:56:00] I know Puba always talks sometimes that, you know, you've got to allow it an inch to smoke. This did not have that issue at all. If you really can go back and revisit the cigar from the very beginning, it started smoking extremely well.
You know, with the buttery, uh, experience, uh, creamy experience from the very beginning, it developed. Uh, pretty, uh, you know, pretty well, I think, in terms of the flavor profile, I think, uh, Rooster brought about, uh, you know, the berry notes, which we all kind of agreed to immediately, because we all could experience that, and we were able to significantly, or, you know, identify those flavors, and, yeah, it did not really develop into some additional flavor.
You know, like a third act play, I don't know, you know, my thought with it is, it was reasonably consistent throughout, I did get a little bit of the sweetness at times, I, you know, at one point in time, maybe because of the scotch we were drinking, I got a bit of the little bitterness, you know how you get the orange rind bitterness, [01:57:00] I got that as well, and it was very pleasant, you know, a palate's pleasant, when you smoke a cigar, it's not ashy, it's not cigar y, it's just a fantastic smoke, and if I'm on a deck, Uh, you know, especially during the summer, there's no way that I would not be smoking this if it's not, like, if it's not windy.
I mean, leaving Chicago aside, but, you know, we live in Jersey, there are days where it's just not windy at all, and if it's pleasant, I'd be smoking this all day. For me, yeah, maybe the price point. You know, considering it, it's a little expensive for sure, I think if it was around 25 bucks, I would be, you know, buying a lot more boxes, but having said that, you know, these are the cigars I would like to indulge in, like the David of Maduro, you know, priced around the same price, you know, maybe a little more, but you know, we were able to source it for a bit cheaper, my thought is, When you enjoy a cigar with great smoke output, you know, you smoke the cigar, you're gonna feel you're smoking a cigar, but great [01:58:00] smoke output.
You feel like you're really enjoying that experience. It's a 10 for me, uh, all the way through.
**Gizmo:** Love it. Yeah. Awesome. Chef Ricky.
**Chef Ricky:** All right. I fully agree with everything you guys have said and, uh, I almost feel bad, but this is a very strong nine, right? And I only feel bad because Pagoda gave it a 10. Um, but for me, We already know
**Senator:** that you guys don't agree that much.
He puts ice in his drink. Don't worry about it.
**Chef Ricky:** Uh, I, I tell you, this pot has been incredibly enlightening. I wouldn't put ice on Pagoda, uh, but yeah, he's a, he's the ice man. We should maybe consider changing, consider changing his, uh. His, his name. Uh, but, uh, yeah, no, the, you know, for me, a, a tent is a perfect cigar.
And for me, uh, unfortunately the light wasn't perfect. I think the, for me, the cigar started to get better, maybe half inch in. Uh, when I first lit it, I got nothing but. You know, tobacco, smoke, and I was like, oh [01:59:00] boy, I, and maybe it could have been because I was just a little scarred from the last couple of pods I was on with you guys, but then it started to develop, right?
And so the two and a half act play, a hundred percent agree. The shortbread, salty, berry notes, nobody seemed to have gotten the coffee there. at any point, but I got some hints of coffee throughout. Uh, the final third for me was the, my favorite part. Uh, and I didn't want to put it down. I eventually I did cause it just got too hot.
Um, but it was a delicious cigar. I take it anytime. I'd. Buy it. I think at the price point, it's, it's great. It's not an everyday cigar, uh, but if you're smoking Cubans and, you know, probably paying this much or more for, you know, an experience that you're not quite sure if it's going to be the guy or not, because sometimes it can be inconsistent.
I'd rather go this route for sure. Um, so, you know, with that said, this was a delicious cigar. Um, I think it could pair better with [02:00:00] another spirit and maybe the rating would have shown that had it been maybe a Cuban rum or something that leaned less peaty. Uh, and it just, yeah, it was, it's, it's a nine all day for me.
Um, and just know I've had no ice today. So my palate's on point. Um, Yeah. So it's, it's, it's a freeze over there. It's a, listen, the principle
**Pagoda:** is spoken. All right. The principle is spoken,
**Chef Ricky:** but great cigar, great cigar, pleasantly surprised. Um, and I could see why it's kind of readings that it has.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys.
That puts the formal lizard rating tonight on the Byron 21st century. And elegance at a 9. 2. Wow. Great, great rating and very appropriate, very appropriate. I agree. So let's compare that to the Otta Bay brew house in Robusta that we did. On episode 49, almost a hundred episodes ago, that cigar scored a 5. 8.
So this was significantly better than that. Well, [02:01:00] boys, what a great pairing tonight. Both were excellent. I'm glad we did the Balvenie that limited edition, you know, adding another, you know,
**Pagoda:** uh, hit him on his chest, please. He needs ice. Give us advice,
**Gizmo:** adding another entrant to our, uh, Balvenie experience tonight.
Obviously performed a little bit poorer than the others, but, uh, and we have to do the open 14, which we've talked about on the pod and we've enjoyed before together, but we've never rated it on the podcast. So we're going to have to do that in the future. All right, boys. So first I want to shout out lizard Dane G who sent us a, an email suggesting that we do Byron cigars, specifically this 21st century elegance.
So thank you to Dane G. Congratulations to lizard Siegel out there who won lizard of the week. If you want to win, just send us a great email or a voice memo. We're happy to hear what you have to say and play it on the air. And you might win some stuff from us. Of course, thanks to fabric of five for supporting the podcast.
Shout out to Ricky's [02:02:00] son, Ethan, a new lizard listener out there.
**Chef Ricky:** So the baby lizard
**Gizmo:** is about what eight years from smoking cigars, but he'll get there. He'll get there.
All right, boys. A great night. And, uh, we'll see everybody next week. Hope you enjoyed this episode. Thanks for joining us. You can find our merch store and ratings archive at our brand new website. Lounge lizards pod. com. That's lounge lizards, P O D dot com. Don't forget to leave us a rating and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform.
If you have any comments, questions. If you want to reach out, say hello, tell us what you're smoking. Email us hello at lounge lizards pod. com. You can also find us on Instagram at lounge lizards pod. We really appreciate your time and we'll, uh, we'll see you next week.