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Let us know what's up What if our perception of being the main character in our own story blinds us to the struggles of others? Tune in as we promise to unravel the complexities of trauma-informed care, focusing on the transition back to routine post-holidays and the role of empathy in our interactions. We'll discuss how recognizing each person's unique narrative can foster compassion, particularly in sensitive situations like suicide. Whether you're a parent, educator, or engaged in human r...
What if our perception of being the main character in our own story blinds us to the struggles of others? Tune in as we promise to unravel the complexities of trauma-informed care, focusing on the transition back to routine post-holidays and the role of empathy in our interactions. We'll discuss how recognizing each person's unique narrative can foster compassion, particularly in sensitive situations like suicide. Whether you're a parent, educator, or engaged in human relationships, this episode offers insights into how understanding diverse life stories can transform our support for one another.
Join us as we explore the profound impact of childhood trauma on behavior through Bandura's social cognitive lens. We'll highlight the challenges faced by children in foster care, those with disabilities, and how adverse experiences shape their worldviews and coping mechanisms. With a critical eye on home and educational environments, we'll spotlight the intricate ties between experience and behavior, making a case for why empathy and kindness should guide our responses to children's actions.
We'll confront the hurdles educators and parents face in supporting students with Individualized Education Programs and trauma backgrounds. It's time to acknowledge the demands on teachers and how lack of special education training impacts their capacity to nurture strong student relationships. By advocating for community involvement and intentional compassion, we'll chart a course for improving outcomes for these children. Equip yourself with the knowledge and tools to support students in navigating the complexities of trauma, education, and human connection.
Join us as we dive into the world of special education with two educators who have walked the same path as many of you. In addition to teaching in self-contained and collaborative settings, our hosts bring a unique perspective to the challenges and triumphs of raising a special needs child. From classroom strategies to heartfelt family moments, they offer practical advice, empathy, and a community of support. Discover how their personal experiences can shed light on your journey and gain valuable insights into navigating the complexities of special education both in and out of the classroom. Welcome to the tribe!
Speaker 1: well, the holidays
have come and gone, we have
passed christmas and new years
and rolling back into the school
year and working with our
students and it was really funny
to me that we were kind of I
don't say excited about getting
to school, but we were pumped up
and ready to go.
And that was Tuesday and by
Wednesday we were like yeah,
we're tired again.
Yes, I don't think we want to,
like I'm ready for another
weekend.
Speaker 2: Just wade back into
this thing, even though we did
have Monday, to kind of get our
bearings back.
Speaker 1: Not quite the same
though.
Not quite, but that's okay like
we're in it and we're in it to
win it.
We're in no okay so anyway.
Uh, I'm pretty excited about
what we're going to be talking
about this evening.
Well, it's evening while we're
recording, because I think it's
something that is really easy to
overlook.
And here's something I've
learned about myself and some
things I've I kind of assume
about others and please
understand when I say assume,
that's not from the judging
standpoint, saying, oh, you do
this, but see, I know this is
what I do, and I like to think
that other people kind of view
the world the same way.
So each and every one of us, we
kind of live as the main
character in our story, right,
everything we see is first
person.
Everything happens around us.
We view it with our eyes, we
hear it with our ears, we smell
it with our nose.
Right, like that's how we
experience life and the only
life we live in, that first
person.
Everybody else is a member of
the story that we're living in.
And while that I do believe is
normal and I don't think there's
anything wrong with it, I don't
know how you change that.
Like, even if it was wrong, how
in the world can you not be in
your head?
Speaker 2: Right, I don't know.
This doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1: No, so I think it's
safe to assume that, in the same
way, other people approach life
like that.
I believe that you, laura, are
actively the main character in
your life.
Everything else you see happens
around you, but your brain is
the only brain that you see all
the time.
I mean not see all the time,
that didn't even make sense, but
it's the one that you use.
Right, you live inside of
yourself and see everything on
the outside, and so when we live
that way, it's very easy for us
to minimize the experiences of
others.
Right, we allow things to get
to us that probably shouldn't of
others.
Right, we allow things to get
to us that probably shouldn't
really bother us all that much,
but again, the only feelings we
have are ours.
We don't feel other people's.
I mean, I know there's sympathy
and empathy and all of that,
but we have no idea what it's
like living in the brain of
somebody else.
And so as we go through life,
it's very easy for us to kind of
lack in compassion when
interacting with others.
You know, we find ourselves
oftentimes saying well, you know
, it's really messed up that
this person does this or this
person did that, and while
whatever their activity may have
been and it may well have very
well been a horrible thing.
We don't know why One of the
things that we talk about I
don't want to say on a regular
basis because that just sounds
weird, but I know that we've had
a conversation even talking
about suicide, and people have
different views and opinions
when it comes to that and how
they view it, and some people
get angry about it.
Others, of course, are
heartbroken.
But the one thing that we have
to ask ourselves is you know
what happened to this person,
that they came to the conclusion
that taking their own life was
the best option?
I mean, that's crazy, right?
It's crazy to think and to try
to put ourselves in that
situation where I can look at,
you know, a world full of
billions of people, social media
, my contacts and my phone
there's so many people that I
can interact with and I come to
the conclusion that ending my
own life makes the most sense.
And I think, when we start to
look at the way that people live
and interact and the way that
minds work, that we can learn to
have more compassion and care
and look for ways to support
others and not necessarily sit
back and judge and okay, well,
you know, I clearly would never
make that choice.
So I'm a better person than
them, or that's not an issue I'm
dealing with.
So it's easy for me to dog
somebody because they're in the
middle of that, and so, as I'm
rambling on, you may ask the
question what does this have to
do with A being a special
education teacher or B?
That's right.
I used A.
I put up one finger instead of
saying one.
I have to let people know that,
because they can't appreciate
it if I don't.
So, yes, I'm saying A and B and
then I'm using one and two on
my fingers.
But, you didn't say A and two,
right, because that would just
be ridiculous.
So so what does that have to do
with being a teacher in special
education, being a, being a
parent in special education,
being an administrator in
special education, being a
parent that has a child with
special needs, being a parent of
a child with special needs,
being a parent of a child that
doesn't have special needs but
maybe goes to school with
friends and peers that have
special needs?
I think, foundationally, what it
means is that we have to learn
that, while we might be the key
person of our story, that
there's other people living
lives and they're the key person
of our story, that there's
other people living lives and
they're the key people in their
story, and so we need to take
the time to consider what might
be going on in their lives.
And so, leading to the topic, I
mean, I feel like I just ramble
and ramble and ramble, because
I guess I kind of do and I hope,
hope it made some sense but
leads us to the topic of
conversation, uh, on this
episode being trauma-informed
care, or we're going to talk
about the impact of trauma in
the lives of students and and
and let's see, let's just see
where that conversation goes,
all right.
So, laura, what do you know
about trauma?
Speaker 2: Well, I happen to
have done some studying on
trauma and the trauma-informed
care, trauma-informed practices,
informed care, trauma, informed
practices and, um, if you want
to go about a general definition
, it's about the uh, the
response, both emotional and
physical, to whether it be
multiple events or one event or
an environment that leads to
harm of an individual, harm
that's emotional, physical,
psychological, and it's
typically long-lasting and it
impacts an individual's
well-being and functionality.
Speaker 1: All right, so let's
take that definition and kind of
paint me a picture.
What might that look like?
Like what kind of trauma might
our students experience?
Speaker 2: Trauma is known as
and we're talking about children
adverse childhood experiences.
It could be in the form of
violence, either witnessing
violence of a loved one, or
having physical abuse or neglect
, or caregiver, parent abuse,
grandparent may die unexpectedly
, mental health issues of family
members and all of these things
can impact and be considered
trauma.
Speaker 1: So it's not
necessarily.
It doesn't necessarily mean
that it's the impact of horrific
violence, but it really has a
lot to do with the impact of
actions, the impact of the
actions of others, the certain
situations and context.
That is just a little too much
for this child to process and
understand.
I mean, let's be honest, even
as adults, we don't understand
our emotions very well, right.
There's oftentimes that we act
out in ways and we don't even
realize the why behind it.
We don't even realize the why
behind it.
So if we were to do like a
little psychological study and
we read up on some of the
information recorded by Bandura
Albert Bandura, one of his
things was the whole social
cognitive theory, right.
And the idea being that we
learn our behavior based on our
experiences, right.
So if I touch a stove and it's
hot, I learn touching hot things
is bad, it hurts, right.
If I decide that I'm going to
run out in my drawers and it's,
you know, 26 degrees outside and
snow everywhere and I get cold,
I'm going to learn I need to
put some clothes on, absolutely.
So we experience these things
and they shape the way that we
view the world around us.
Now, those are silly.
I don't even call them extreme,
but those impact of
interactions are what create the
way that we see the world
around us, and so these children
are the same way.
What they see feeds the way
that they view and interact with
the world around them.
And so, with that in mind, if
we think about this trauma, I
mean them.
And so, with that in mind, if
we think about this trauma, I
mean here's an example that is
not far-fetched and that,
unfortunately, people experience
a lot.
Kids experience a lot is that
you know they'll have parents
that have substance abuse issues
or addictions, and these
children, under I mean no fault
of their own, end up being
removed from where they live.
And the parents they know
whether they totally understand
what it was that mom and or dad
was doing.
They just know that now I'm no
longer in that house and now I'm
being put into another house
and I don't know these people,
and they're going to try to
interact with each other and
they're going to try to function
in a family-type way.
However, they're not family.
It's like they haven't grown up
together.
They haven't, you know, the
foster parents didn't raise them
, they didn't, they weren't
there when they were born in
most cases.
And then you have these children
who I understand that mom and
dad are supposed to be the ones
that take care of me, that lead
me, that teach me, and now I
don't have them and I'm in
somebody else's home.
This could be an incredibly
traumatic experience, right?
So then what happens is?
The result could be a child
genuinely feeling alone, even
though they just went from one
house to another, genuinely
feeling alone, and so, again, I
bring up that example only to
say that trauma isn't just one
thing, or two things, or three
things.
Trauma isn't just one thing or
two things or three things.
It really has to do with how
these children are impacted by
whatever experience, right?
Speaker 2: What do you think?
No, I agree that it's what they
experience and what they come
to know and, like you said,
that's how we learn and how we
know how to cope.
And if they're in a situation
that the person supposed to be
taking care of them, the person
supposed to be taking care of
them they, you know dies, or
they abuse them, or they neglect
them or they, then they don't
these, they don't develop those
coping skills because there's
nobody to teach them that the
people that are supposed to be
doing this for you know,
sometimes reasons not of their
own choosing, but are not able
to provide that for these, these
children, and then, um, like
you said, some they're removed
from the home and then they go
to um.
A lot of times it's a
stranger's house and, um, they
might not be the only children
there.
And so, I mean, we know that
there are some fantastic foster
families out there.
Speaker 1: Absolutely Some that
we love to death.
Speaker 2: Right, but there's
also some that are not so good
that these children have dollar
signs and so that, can you know,
bring on even more trauma.
And then it impacts them in
just about every part of their
being emotionally and socially,
academically, behaviorally,
physically, mentally.
It has an impact all over,
Right.
Speaker 1: And so what we have
also found and we're going to
tie something together here real
quick is that research shows
that it is prevalent in students
that have been diagnosed with a
disability or an exceptionality
to present problematic behavior
.
I mean they kind of go hand in
hand, not saying that every kid
that has an IEP is a problem
child.
But, what we do find is that
along with that comes
problematic behavior.
And so what does that?
What do we do with that?
What does that look like in the
school setting?
Little Jommy Jommy, little
Johnny or little Jane, she is
coming to school, she has an IEP
she struggles with, I don't
know.
Let's just, let's say that she
is, we'll just use autism.
That seems to be you know a big
one, right?
We'll just use autism.
That seems to be you know a big
one, right?
So she already has different
ways of processing and
understanding the world around
her.
And now, on top of that, there
are things that are happening in
the home that prove to be
traumatic for that child.
Again, we can't sit here and
say that it's well, they're
either getting beat or they're,
you know, being abused in some
other way, but they're
experiencing something,
something in the home that
emotionally psychologically,
that emotionally psychologically
really kind of unhinges them a
little bit.
So now we're going into the
school setting, an area that I'm
kind of struggling with anyway,
because I do have my own
learning disabilities, and then
on top of it, I have this trauma
.
What are some things that we
might see in the school, in the
classroom?
Speaker 2: A lot of time that
the students that have
experienced a trauma and also
have another disability on top
of it, they have a hard time
self-regulating.
They get spun up and then they
can't just turn that off and
then sometimes they don't have
the coping skills to be able to
learn, you know, to calm
themselves down and they're just
typical life events.
It impacts their typical life
events or friends, interactions
with friends, interactions with
their teachers.
They may, depending on what it
was that happened, they may not
trust the grownups, or they may
not trust women, or they may not
trust men.
It impacts their attendance.
A lot of times they're absent.
It impacts their learning,
because their academics usually
fall, and their neurodevelopment
, because those types of actions
they tend to impact their brain
development.
Speaker 1: They kind of put a
strain on it.
Speaker 2: Right, and so it can.
It just messes them up all the
way around, yeah, and so there's
a it makes school hard yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, way harder than
it needs to be needs to be.
So what we have is we have a
student that will, either will
one of two ways express this
trauma and again, not even
necessarily knowing that what
they are doing or what they are
feeling is a product of
something they've experienced.
All they know is one of two
things either A what's going on
inside bubbles up so much to the
point that I have to
externalize it.
Right, I've got to get this out
of me.
I'm angry.
There's this feeling inside of
me that I cannot leave alone.
I remember hearing one time and
this isn't necessarily a direct
correlation, however it kind of
paints a picture I was reading
an article one time about a
young lady who was nonverbal and
she learned to communicate
through a device.
Right, she could type out—they
didn't even know that she could
spell anything but she would
type out what she was feeling
and could communicate in that
way.
And they asked the question why
is it that you get flappy Like?
Why do you?
Why do you flap?
What is with that?
And the way that she described
it was that there's this big
ball of energy that builds up
and I don't know how to get it
out, and so I flap my hands
right.
So if we take that same, that
same kind of idea, that same
perspective and we kind of wrap
it around a child that has
experienced trauma, the same
thing is going to happen.
There's either A going to be
this hurt, anger.
However, it presents itself in
their body, in their mind.
That has to get out, and we see
that in the form of, you know,
chairs being thrown, desks being
flipped.
You know, there's a number of
things that that that we've seen
now, and that's not suggesting
that every kid that flips a
table or a chair has some sort
of trauma in their life.
However, it is one of those
indicators, right, like there's
something going on inside that
they just got to get out, and
oftentimes you won't even know
what triggers it.
Or, if it's not being
externalized, it's being
internalized.
So then you end up with a child
that is either incredibly
anxious or real what's the word
I'm looking for?
Like real withdrawn and to
themselves.
Speaker 2: Yeah, depressed and
antisocial, and yeah.
Speaker 1: I just said, have
anxiety?
Yeah, because I can't.
I don't know why I feel the way
I feel, but I'm not willing to
and allow somebody else to add
on to that, because I mean
things like anxiety, and they're
not necessarily what's the word
I'm looking for.
They don't always make sense,
right?
We have fears, and we have
healthy fears, and we have fears
that just aren't grounded in
any kind of fact, right, any
factual concern.
And a child can feel these
things, and, again, it may have
nothing to do with the physical
presence.
Them being in the classroom,
may not have anything to do with
the classroom whatsoever, but
it has everything to do with
what has been shaping their mind
, what has been shaping their
perspective.
And so, with that in mind, what
are some?
What are some like
responsibilities that we, as
we'll just say, adults, whether
it's teaching, being teachers or
parents in the home, or
whatever the case may be, what
are some?
What are some responsibilities
that we have and how we should
approach a child that that may
have experienced trauma in their
life?
Speaker 2: I think and I think
we've discussed this before the
first thing that we have to do
we have to get to know our kids
and so and then we'll know this
behavior is typical or not
typical, or especially with
something new, you can find out
what is going on.
And and you talked about
empathy and have that have that
empathy, because we don't always
, they won't always, tell us
what's happening.
So I think that if we, if we
approach them with kindness and
love and try to find out what's
going on before just getting
upset with them for presenting
some undesired behaviors, try to
understand the why behind it
and because, yes, there are
behaviors, you know, hand in
hand with some of these
exceptionalities.
However, there's typically a
reason for them.
You know, we have those
teachers that say behavior is
communication, so they're trying
to tell us something.
So, as adults, it's our
responsibility to try to figure
out what they're trying to tell
us and help them to be able to
tell us what it is that's going
on.
Speaker 1: Well, a common
approach and perspective
especially if you've grown up
down south is there are certain
expectations that often are
placed on children when it comes
to their interactions with
adults, and I'm not saying that
that's wrong.
I'm not saying that we don't
teach our kids to respect adults
and respect each other and
respect themselves, but there
are cases to where sometimes, as
adults, we just want them to do
what we tell them to do and act
the way that we tell them to
act, simply because we're the
adult and they're the child.
Right keep in mind the what like
what you're saying, the why
behind it is there.
Is there something going on?
Because if we're so quick to
shut down a child's behavior
just by, just stop, just stop
doing it, because I'm telling
you to stop doing it, but don't
take the time to understand the
why behind it.
Not only are we not offering
support, we're compounding the
problem.
So, on top of what they're
feeling, that's been formed
outside of the classroom, that's
been formed outside of the
school system, now we're going
to add on expectation to the top
of it, and so, in turn, I mean
we're placing incredible weight
upon the shoulders of the
children, who are again
oftentimes carrying something
with them that was not their
fault, right, whatever that
experience may have been.
And so it's important as adults
, it's important as teachers,
it's important as parents this,
you know that's something that I
can say that I certainly did
not earn the gold star in with
with the boys, and that is, you
know, I was not always a let's
kind of figure out what's going
on here.
Oftentimes it's just I don't
have time, do what I tell you to
do, right, and let's roll.
No, you know what you're acting
out.
You just go sit in your room or
you go, you know whatever, and
just kind of push it to the side
because we're so stinking busy
that we just can't take the time
.
Now I understand that not
everybody is a psychologist, not
everybody is a therapist.
I mean, either one of us are
right.
We're special education
teachers.
Now we've read some stuff right
.
And different articles and
journal articles and stuff like
that.
But we don't have to be
therapists to understand
genuinely caring for these
students and what they
experience.
So we have an idea of what
trauma is and we know that we
need to be trauma-informed.
What do you think it is that
keeps us from as educators, as
parents, as adults?
What do you think it is that
keeps us from moving forward in
better understanding trauma in
the lives of these children and
students?
Speaker 2: As you started out
with, is that unless we've
experienced it ourself, we
probably don't understand it.
It and so I think that there is
lack of a better term some
ignorance there, because it's
not natural for these children
to experience some of the things
that they experience, and so
that ignorance, you just don't
know about it also.
So not only can you not
understand it, there's also it's
becoming more and more talked
about.
You hear a lot of that, you
hear trauma more and more lately
, but there's still not, it's
not widely taught in schools and
it's not widely taught in like
teacher prep programs, and I
think that is is probably at the
top is just a lack of knowledge
and understanding.
And then that, like you were
talking about with parents, and
I'll think also with with
parents and also with teachers,
is that that time constraint.
Okay, well, I've, I've got, I
got to teach this lesson where
I've got to do.
I don't.
I don't have time to go sit for
30 minutes over here to to
figure this out, so I just need
you to sit there and be quiet.
Um, because there's so much put
on responsibility to put on
these, these teachers, that on
these teachers, that they
oftentimes have a hard time
finding the time to build those
relationships that they need to
build with the students and not
saying that they don't work that
in and that they don't try
their best.
But it's hard and there's some
days that they're overwhelmed.
Speaker 1: Well, here's
something to consider.
We know that, nationwide, 17%
of all of our students that
attend public school have an IEP
right, so they have either some
sort of a learning disorder or
some exceptionality that impacts
their ability to learn.
What we also know is that the
majority of those students right
that the pool grows as you go
up from preschool.
So I had the opportunity to
work in an elementary school as
a collaborative special
education teacher and the year
my very first year I worked with
two grade levels out of six and
I had more students.
There were upper grades, fourth
and fifth grade, and I had more
students to serve than the
teacher that worked with the
kindergarten first, second and
third.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Because there's the
whole identifying process.
And so I said all that to bring
up this point is that while we
may have one in every five
student with an IEP, those
numbers are small in the
beginning but then they, you
know, blow up as you get older
and things are more identified.
They, you know, blow up as you
get older and things are more
identified.
So we may have a classroom with
, oh, I don't know, let's just
say, 15 students with an IEP,
and of those 15 students, some
of them may have behavior issues
based on trauma.
We don't know, it could be
behaviors, because they just are
struggling to kind of wrap
their head around what's going
on.
I guess this kind of ties in
with trauma too.
But so now we have ready a
teacher, a general education
teacher, where, at the very
least statistically, one in five
of their students has an IEP.
We know that problem behavior is
prevalent in students that have
an IEP, and we live in a really
jacked up world where kids have
to experience things that they
didn't quite experience when we
were kids.
I mean, I can remember living in
pennsylvania, uh, like from the
ages of like seven to ten, six
to ten, something like that, and
we could grab our fishing poles
, walk a mile down the road to
the creek and nobody cared
because it was like this really
tight-knit small community.
But it's not like that now.
There's a lot going on.
The internet has allowed access
to so many things that are
unhealthy not only for children
but for adults, and so we are
taking think about this.
We're taking a teacher, we're
taking a man or a woman that has
finished a teaching program
that has not had any extensive
special education instruction,
has not had any probably minimal
psychology, right, because we
all have to take a little bit of
psychology in our bachelor's
programs.
But then these teachers are
being put in these rooms with
special education children,
children that have experienced
trauma in their life along with
the weight of performance, right
.
So these teachers have to get
passing grades, right?
Not a whole lot is I mean not a
whole lot is addressed as far
as mental health.
I think especially at those at
the elementary school age and
it's like good luck, yep, figure
it out, teach.
I was reading an article not
too long ago that talked about
general education teachers and
their willingness to and desire
to work with kids that have
special needs work with kids
that have special needs.
And what they found in their
research is that not only did
gender or amount of years time
that a teacher was involved,
that if they receive special
training, if they receive
training in how to work with
special education students, the
not only acceptance but desire
to work with those students grew
astronomically.
It didn't matter if they were a
young 20-something right out of
school or if they were a
seasoned vet.
If they had the training, the
teaching efficacy rose right,
their belief in what they could
do was elevated and then they
had this desire to work with
kids.
What if I'm just going to throw
this out here Us as teachers and
I know we're all busy us as
parents, we decided that we're
not going to wait for a school
system or a district to teach us
how to work with these kids.
We're not going to wait for
teacher prep programs to teach
us and goodness knows as far as
raising children goes you can't
go buy a book that gets it all
right.
There's no guide to owner's
manual for children with
disabilities.
There's no owner's manuals for
children that have experienced
trauma.
But what if, collectively, we
decided that we were going to do
research, that we were going to
take the time to do whatever we
could to learn about how to
love and care and listen to
these children?
What do you think would happen?
Like what if we were willing,
as a society, again, to not wait
for the government to save us
but, as communities, to invest
in and research and reach out to
those who we know have
experienced that trauma and then
be compassionate enough to keep
our eyes and ears open To ones
that maybe others haven't seen
or identified as a child that's
experienced trauma.
I mean, what if?
What if, like, we just started
loving people and caring about
people and really being what's
the word I'm looking for
Intentional, intentional, about
caring about others and not
being the lead role in our own
story.
Right, what can happen?
Speaker 2: I don't know, change
lives.
Speaker 1: That's kind of like
why we're in this thing, huh.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, unless you have
anything else to say, this is
kind of an abrupt ending, but I
don't have anything else left.
Speaker 2: No, I think that
there are some topics that maybe
we can cover next week and get
in a little bit about the
teachers and different types of
trauma-informed care and what it
means and what the classrooms
mean.
But I think we've got to—I
think we did good.
I think that's enough for right
.
I think we did a good.
I think that's enough for right
now because it's a heavy topic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think we
might be chit-chatting about
this trauma stuff for a while,
huh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we need
to revisit this next week.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And yeah.
Speaker 1: So we're going to
wrap up this episode of Life in
the IEP Tribe.
If you thought this was super
horrible, I apologize.
Not really.
Speaker 2: We had fun.
Speaker 1: We had a good time
and hopefully this conversation
maybe can help you or spark an
interest or at the very least,
maybe you can shoot us some
ideas or questions.
You can do that at
lifeintheeptribe at gmailcom or
check us out on the Facebook.
That's kind of where we are.
The most is the Facebook.
Shoot us a message, ask
questions, give us ideas.
We like all that stuff.
So until next time, I'm Jared
with my super awesome wife,
Laura, and we'll see you later.
Bye.