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Work like you’re not a parent.
Parent like you don’t work.
What if that whole system is wrong?
This is Full Stack Moms, and we are Mallory Lee and Shannon Curran, two working moms navigating tech careers, parenting, and everything in between. We talk about why the traditional rules of work don’t fit modern parents and how women in tech are doing things differently. Through honest conversations and behind-the-scenes stories, this show explores careers, caregiving, ambition, and the messy reality of having it all, just not all at once.
Connect with Mallory: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mallorylee/
Connect with Shannon: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shannon-sweeny-curran/
Produced in partnership with Share Your Genius
www.shareyourgenius.com
[00:00:00] Sandy Robinson: I got married when I was like 23 and my ex like really wanted kids and I really wanted career, right? He really wanted to start popping out babies and I was kind of the breadwinner already. I just kept getting pressure from him to have kids like now, now, now. And I was not ready.
[00:00:19] Mallory Lee: This is Full Stack Moms.
[00:00:21] Shannon Curran: This is not a parenting podcast nor a business podcast, but a place where we talk building careers in tech, raising kids at home. And making it work in public.
[00:00:31] Mallory Lee: Alright, so Sandy, we have, I told you this is like our first time having a guest. I feel like this is our first legit ever podcasting experience.
[00:00:42] Mallory Lee: I'm like, I have no idea what I'm doing. So luckily, Sandy's an expert. She has a podcast. Uh, Erin, I'm an expert podcast number. You're in podcast number two, right?
[00:00:53] Sandy Robinson: Yeah. Yeah. So this one I started on my own. Um, I've been doing the rev op, RevOps inbox for the Alliance for, gosh, I think like three years. Wow.
[00:01:02] Sandy Robinson: And that's been fun. But I decided I wanna dive a little bit more into AI and just do my own thing. And I, I like the creative side of it and things like that. So it's been fun. I was, people don't know this, most people, but. I was gonna go to art school when I was in high school. I was like obsessed with going to art school and like commercial art and all that stuff.
[00:01:24] Sandy Robinson: And I would like draw the ads. And I got into the Savannah College of Art and Design and like, I wanted to do like digital art 'cause like that was a thing then, you know, and all of that. And then,
[00:01:35] Mallory Lee: yeah,
[00:01:35] Sandy Robinson: then I, I didn't go because I got a boyfriend and decided I didn't wanna move all the way across country and, you know, um, kind of shifted the trajectory of my career, but in a good way.
[00:01:46] Sandy Robinson: But it's been fun 'cause I've been doing like all that creative stuff and like Canva and all the tools and everything has been fun.
[00:01:52] Shannon Curran: I went to a version of art school as well. I went to Emerson, so I was there for Oh,
[00:01:55] Sandy Robinson: cool.
[00:01:56] Shannon Curran: Dance and political communications technically, but I was really just dancing 50 hours a week.
[00:02:01] Shannon Curran: Um, nice. Nice. But uh, yeah, it's funny, I always say like my pipeline of. Like art school to MBA to tech is like very, there aren't a lot of us out there.
[00:02:12] Sandy Robinson: Yeah. So, yeah. That's interesting. So dance, do you, um, like what, do you still do any dance stuff? Like what do you do?
[00:02:19] Shannon Curran: Yeah, I taught post-professional class until, and I, prof, I still taught, like I danced professionally until 2020, so until COVID and then I moved out of the city of Boston.
[00:02:28] Shannon Curran: So I was, I had my own company, danced in another company, taught class, and then I moved to a suburb and now it's just like a different. Vibe. So I would have to go into the city. I also then had kids, but the cool thing is there's actually a, this is a podcast exclusive. No one lives near me, so it's irrelevant.
[00:02:46] Shannon Curran: But there's a new studio opening in the area and they asked me to teach like class again, so, oh, sweet. I'll be back on the
[00:02:53] Sandy Robinson: Marley
[00:02:53] Shannon Curran: Ska news. That's
[00:02:54] Mallory Lee: so cool.
[00:02:55] Sandy Robinson: That's, I know. That's so cool. Like dancing, just kind of I'm, I'm like obsessed. I used to teach like swing dancing when it was like big, bad baby daddies.
[00:03:02] Sandy Robinson: So cool. I was like hardcore into that and I found this place
[00:03:06] Shannon Curran: here. Oh yeah? Yeah. I have video too. Like I was always carrying a video camera around like eight millimeter, all that
[00:03:13] Sandy Robinson: stuff. I just dug up a bunch of that stuff.
[00:03:14] Shannon Curran: It's hard too, when, this can probably be something we talk about too, is like. When something's a part of your identity for so long and then it like isn't anymore, you're like, wait a minute.
[00:03:24] Shannon Curran: I still feel very much like I identify as someone that dances as a dancer, right? But it's like, and then I had kids and then I started coaching at a gym to kind of fulfill that same. Mm. Kind of. Um, but yeah, it's really hard, right? Like there's how many identities can you hold at once, right? Is this concept right?
[00:03:44] Shannon Curran: It's crazy. I was listening to this podcast about like, it's like
[00:03:49] Sandy Robinson: perimenopause podcast, which is, you know, I'm 49 and this, you know, shit sucks. Like I'm just putting it out there. And they were saying like, this, this years like in your. Thirties, you know, when you're mid, late twenties, whenever you have kids and like through your thirties, you're just like the people pleaser.
[00:04:06] Sandy Robinson: Like you're not doing anything for yourself. Like most moms. Yeah. And most women who have kids are just, that's what they're doing. They're doing everything for their kids. And it's like, those are the years of sacrifice and your kids start to get a little older. You're like, dude, I wanna do stuff for me.
[00:04:22] Sandy Robinson: You know? That's kind of where I am right now. I'm like seeing the like light, you know, at the end of the tunnel. I love that. So it's kind of, um. It's kind of interesting just to think of it that way. Like how many years I didn't go snowboarding because like nobody else snowboards and I used to be obsessed with it, and that's all I ever did.
[00:04:41] Sandy Robinson: And then like I, I haven't done it in like. 12 years, something like that. You know,
[00:04:46] Mallory Lee: it's
[00:04:46] Sandy Robinson: like stuff like that.
[00:04:47] Mallory Lee: Let's do like a brief intro so people know who Sandy is. I met Sandy a few years ago in the RevOps circuit, and I think the first time I actually met you in person is when I spoke at a RevOps Alliance event.
[00:05:00] Mallory Lee: Sandy has a super inspiring background. She came up through sales, and so talk about having empathy for sellers and knowing how to teach them and knowing how to make them successful. What would you tell us about your career? What should people know?
[00:05:16] Sandy Robinson: It's definitely been a journey I think. Back when I started out in sales, it was, I was always the only woman out there.
[00:05:26] Sandy Robinson: So like my first outside sales rep job, I, you know, team was all met, the whole company didn't even have a woman account executive, like sales rep.
[00:05:34] Mallory Lee: Oh wow.
[00:05:35] Sandy Robinson: Whole company. They had to change their policy on rooming. I swear to God. They're like, I'm like, I'm not gonna room with a dude. Right. So, anyway. It, it is definitely been a journey.
[00:05:46] Sandy Robinson: I've worked my way up through, you know, sales leadership and then I had a phenomenal mentor after I had my kid, which I was, um, 35 4, 3 4 when I had my son and I was in, I was like in a sales director role, so I was traveling a lot and my husband travels, he was in consulting at the time, and I had like this great leader and she goes, you know.
[00:06:08] Sandy Robinson: It was my first like real awesome badass woman sales leader and she was like, Hey, you know you're really great at this sales ops stuff. And 'cause I was doing all, I was like getting my hands in. We had like Microsoft CRM, it wasn't even dynamics then, and I'm like running reports and doing territories and all that stuff and she's like, you know, you would be great at this.
[00:06:32] Sandy Robinson: We need a national sales ops director and. You know, you've got this kid, do you really wanna travel all the time? Like she had this conversation with me that was like on a personal level and on like a career level. It was just really cool. So that's when I transitioned over into sales ops. But it was really, I was doing everything, you know, I was doing the training enablement.
[00:06:54] Sandy Robinson: Mm-hmm. We rolled out Challenger, like it was a whole thing. So that's how I branched into that, that side of the world.
[00:07:00] Shannon Curran: I would love to hear a little bit about your decision to become a mom when you were in your career. Is this something you always knew you wanted? Like how is your thoughts around timing?
[00:07:09] Shannon Curran: Like I feel like a lot of people have this negotiation with themselves around like, when, what, how long will I take off? Like all that stuff. Like how, like bring us back to that time and how you were
[00:07:20] Sandy Robinson: thinking about
[00:07:20] Shannon Curran: it.
[00:07:21] Sandy Robinson: Oh, well, I'll have to go back to marriage number one because I got married when I was like 23 and my ex like really wanted kids.
[00:07:28] Sandy Robinson: And I really wanted career, right? Like I was motivated. Yeah. I was in sales, I was a sales rep, I was just kind of working my way up. I wanted to be a sales manager and he really wanted to start popping out babies. And I was like, and I was kind of the breadwinner already. And then we had like a little business, um, he was in construction, so we started a framing company.
[00:07:50] Sandy Robinson: And so I was just like, I wanna establish my career. And I just kept getting pressure from him. To have kids like now, now, now. And I was not ready. So that ended part of it too. He was like a very jealous, insecure type and like, I worked with all dudes, so like, you go to lunch with guys, you know, and stuff like that.
[00:08:12] Sandy Robinson: And he'd be like, following me around and checking my messages and stuff. Yeah, it, it sucked. It was, I won't get into that, but. Anyway, so whoop. Um,
[00:08:23] Shannon Curran: moving on.
[00:08:24] Sandy Robinson: Moved on from that one. I really enjoyed, like from 30 to 33, I moved to the Bay Area. I went to my manager and I was like, look, I can't live in Sacramento anymore.
[00:08:35] Sandy Robinson: Like, do you have an opening for Sales Manager Bay Area, like somewhere, just get me the hell out of here. And so I transferred to our Oakland office and I had a blast for three years of being single and having fun in the Bay Area. And so, but around 33 I was like, Hmm, maybe I want kids. Like this is fun, but I should probably start dating.
[00:08:58] Sandy Robinson: And so that's when I actually got on match when I was 33. Met my husband pretty quickly. And then we decided, like I decided at 34, I was like, all right, like shit, or get off the pot. And I was like, all right, we're gonna do this. And I got pregnant pretty quickly and that was it. So it was a very conscious decision.
[00:09:21] Sandy Robinson: I'm glad it happened fast 'cause I was like totally freaked out about it. Like, I wanted a kid, I wanted at least one kid, but like, I was like, all right, it's do or die now. Like I didn't wanna wait any longer, obviously, because, you know, there's biology.
[00:09:34] Mallory Lee: Yeah. Damn, biology.
[00:09:36] Shannon Curran: I know. Unfortunately, I know. We haven't changed that yet.
[00:09:38] Shannon Curran: Unfortunately. There's really,
[00:09:39] Sandy Robinson: yeah. I mean, you could freeze your eggs, right? Totally. Like people do that. It's a good idea. If you're, if you're, I think, uh, younger and still focusing on your career, like a, just in case, like why not? It's expensive, but like. You know, if you can afford it. Yeah.
[00:09:53] Shannon Curran: And did you take a typical maternity leave?
[00:09:55] Shannon Curran: Like were you out for just a few short months or like what did it look like back then? And then you went right back to in person? Like what was that kind of thought like? Well, no, I was remote so I, I'm fortunate, like I was always remote 'cause I was in
[00:10:06] Sandy Robinson: sales, so like working in an office, I would freaking die.
[00:10:09] Sandy Robinson: Yeah. And like when I went into ops, they like grandfathered me in 'cause that really wasn't a thing back then. They wanted you in an office. But because I had been there so long and I was a field manager, they grandfathered me in. Yeah, so I took the leave and then I had to get a nanny. Like I didn't wanna, I didn't wanna send him to daycare, but I was working from home and my husband, he was still consulting, so he was just traveling a lot.
[00:10:33] Sandy Robinson: So I was having to like, deal with everything. He was kind of helpful than not.
[00:10:40] Mallory Lee: It's easier when they're, when they're gone sometimes. Am I right?
[00:10:44] Sandy Robinson: Oh God, yeah. Like some, sometimes I just love that. Um,
[00:10:47] Mallory Lee: how does
[00:10:48] Sandy Robinson: that, how does that happen when they're little. I don't know. Yeah. Like my, my husband is, he's, he's cool, but he's like, like he would always tell me when Cameron was little, he'd be like, babe, you know, when he's like 12 or 10, that's like the, you know, the, the time I step in and all this like's time to shine.
[00:11:06] Sandy Robinson: It's like I gotta make it till they're double digits. Like, that's a lot of years bud. Like for you, that's two thirds like doing the math. But like, so now I'm like, Hey, I'll like quote him. I'll be like, remember what you said? Like. I thought bur, you know,
[00:11:22] Shannon Curran: I, it's funny, my husband's like a super, super involved dad, like very, like he's one of those people.
[00:11:28] Shannon Curran: I'm like, oh, this, so this is what you are meant to be like, you like watch that happen. You're like, wow. But we both have said parenting on our own is sometimes easier and I think it's because you're not being perceived, you're just doing what you think is best in the moment. Yeah. I also have a toddler right now, which requires a lot of like ninja activity, you know, like of like, yeah.
[00:11:47] Shannon Curran: Am I okay that you had popcorn for breakfast? Like I decided that was okay today, but like maybe my husband wouldn't have. Right. It's not that I think that's right or wrong, it's just like, then you have to look at each other and be like, are we okay with this? Are we not okay with this? Like, what do we, it's like when you're alone, you're just doing, you know what I mean?
[00:12:02] Shannon Curran: Like there's no like, so I do agree. I. One thing that is not easier is bedtime with two kids that are really young. No, that is still so awful when you're alone. I can't
[00:12:10] Sandy Robinson: imagine, right?
[00:12:11] Shannon Curran: Where do you put the baby? Like do the toddler then gets mad that you're gone. You know? So I'll say that part, but I agree with you Matt.
[00:12:17] Shannon Curran: For some reason, like it is definitely. Yeah, like when you can just go, it's like a little bit easier than being like, what do you think? What do you think? Do you have the baby? Can I go to the bathroom or are you going to the bathroom? Can I,
[00:12:28] Sandy Robinson: yeah, I would, I would take, okay. Yeah. I would take cam with me to the bathroom in his little, you know, thing and sit him down.
[00:12:35] Sandy Robinson: He just got go. You gotta go. You know? You gotta, I know.
[00:12:39] Mallory Lee: Uh, I have talked to Brian about that, and he agrees that when I'm gone, like on a work trip, it's easier for him too. And when I decided, I think it's that you're not waiting for the other person to help you.
[00:12:52] Sandy Robinson: Mm.
[00:12:52] Mallory Lee: You're not anticipating like, okay, maybe he'll make breakfast and I'll pack lunch and mm-hmm.
[00:12:58] Mallory Lee: Or maybe today's my day to do breakfast. I can't remember. You know, when you're trying to do this, like give and take. But when you're on your own, like you said Shannon, I think you just go and you're not looking for anyone to do anything for you. And so it's just simpler.
[00:13:13] Shannon Curran: The
[00:13:13] Mallory Lee: break's
[00:13:13] Shannon Curran: not coming. So Yeah.
[00:13:14] Shannon Curran: Yeah.
[00:13:15] Mallory Lee: It's not, it's not. But he says the same thing, you know, it's easier for him too, by himself. So, kind of funny, but I think that's a decent segue into like work, travel, you know, I want to, uh. Just kind of get your thoughts, Sandy, like having a lot of travel before you had kids or kid and then having a kid.
[00:13:35] Mallory Lee: I'm wondering how much you traveled when he was little, and now that he's older, I'm wondering how that's evolved and yeah. Do you feel like that work travels becoming more prevalent? How do you prep your family for that? What's the game plan?
[00:13:49] Sandy Robinson: So, when he was younger, it was tough because inevitably when I had a trip, my husband would have a trip, eh.
[00:13:55] Sandy Robinson: There would be a conflict and you know, I'd have to try to tap in family and we never li lived close to family. So like I'd have to beg my mom to fly in or something and it would stress me out. So there were few trips that I had to cancel and we weren't willing to leave him overnight with the nanny at all.
[00:14:13] Sandy Robinson: Like, nothing wrong with it, but we were like living at the time in Seattle. We didn't have any family around, like nobody closed, so we just weren't comfortable. Um. Doing that. So it was, it was tough when he was younger and I would get frustrated and I, I would get angry sometimes, but like,
[00:14:31] Mallory Lee: yeah.
[00:14:31] Sandy Robinson: You know, it was kind of like, who's trip Trumps who's, you know?
[00:14:35] Sandy Robinson: Oh, I hate that. Yeah. And it was, it was tough. I didn't travel as much fortunately because, you know, once I was more on the op side, but when I did travel. I would like literally make every meal, I would lay out the clothes, like the Tupperwares with the little containers, and I'd put the labels on 'em. Oh, wow.
[00:14:52] Sandy Robinson: And I'd be like, this is Monday. I have pictures of this stuff probably in my iPhone, like take a picture of the fridge, like with like idiot level instructions that my husband can follow while we were gone so I could make sure he ate his vegetables or. You know, if it was picture day, I remember this one time, it was picture day and I'm like, oh my God, my husband's gonna let him go to school in some raggedy tag crap.
[00:15:15] Sandy Robinson: And I'm like, this is for Wednesday. And I laid out this stuff and like inevitably, like he didn't wear that on the white right day, you know? Um,
[00:15:24] Shannon Curran: but he had a shirt on, so that's all that matters.
[00:15:27] Sandy Robinson: It was, it was something, yeah, I probably had to catch on it sometimes. That's all
[00:15:29] Mallory Lee: you can ask.
[00:15:30] Sandy Robinson: Honestly, at this
[00:15:31] Shannon Curran: point.
[00:15:31] Shannon Curran: I know,
[00:15:32] Sandy Robinson: I know. And um, but part of it is my personality. I'm kind of like a control fleet freak D style, you know? And so is my husband. So like, he's gonna do it the way that he does it anyway.
[00:15:42] Mallory Lee: You got that high D you got that high
[00:15:44] Sandy Robinson: D, freak d I'm, I'm like on the D the edge of the DI used to be like, so if you guys know dis like I'm all I, all I, okay.
[00:15:53] Sandy Robinson: I, I was like D little I. And like now, I took it two years later, so I just took it for art for Quavo. Uh, and I'm like hard D at the top, like almost outside of it, and I'm like, wow, okay. I've, I've my eye. I used to be more fun again.
[00:16:14] Shannon Curran: Yeah. I haven't taken it,
[00:16:15] Sandy Robinson: I didn't have eye,
[00:16:15] Shannon Curran: I haven't taken it in like, I don't know, five years.
[00:16:18] Shannon Curran: So things have probably changed a little, but I was like 98% yellow. It was like. Like I, I was bouncing off the page, like literally. Yeah. Are you c uh, Mallory? Are you a lot of CI
[00:16:30] Mallory Lee: was a high D, but Oh, wow. I honestly don't remember what it means. It's been so long dominant. I just remember always like high D, high D, like that was mm-hmm.
[00:16:41] Mallory Lee: The, the moniker. Um, yeah. I need to take it again. It would be fun.
[00:16:45] Shannon Curran: I used to have, uh, so we did strengths finders at one of my companies where we had our strengths on our doors, like our office doors. Or on your cube.
[00:16:52] Mallory Lee: Okay.
[00:16:53] Shannon Curran: And then our discs were on our cube at QuickBase. It was like very, um, I found it very interesting.
[00:16:59] Shannon Curran: I think it's really good on the leadership team. Like I don't know if the whole company needs to do it, but I think it's good for that. I love working Genius now. It's like my favorite one. It's a Lencioni thing. I like it 'cause it's really simple. Like it's not super complicated. There are six working geniuses.
[00:17:15] Shannon Curran: Two of which is when you're operating in your genius, two of which is when like, it's like sucking the life out of you. Mallory, you and I should do this. I bet we'd be complete opposites. Um, probably. I know, I know. Um, we're like two sides of the marketing. I know I have two ops people on the call, so I should be careful.
[00:17:29] Shannon Curran: But, uh, but I, um, uh, I'm like the arts and side, you know? Uh mm-hmm. But then there's two in the middle that you can like live with, and I like that one because it's. Really simple, like very easy to understand. Yeah. It's one of the, it's not like, you know, Myers-Briggs, thousands of questions to find out.
[00:17:46] Shannon Curran: You're like a,
[00:17:47] Sandy Robinson: yeah.
[00:17:48] Shannon Curran: I don't even know what I am anymore.
[00:17:49] Sandy Robinson: I forget the, isn't it is like a number thing. Yeah, it's, that's one's more complicated is the
[00:17:55] Mallory Lee: letters. Yeah.
[00:17:56] Sandy Robinson: EP,
[00:17:58] Shannon Curran: yeah.
[00:17:58] Mallory Lee: LPI was N tj. I'm EN tj. The reason I know I'm EN TJ is because the people who like facilitated it, they made such a big deal about it.
[00:18:08] Mallory Lee: They're like, oh, you're an ENTJ. That's rare. The CEO profile, it's so rare for a woman to be an ENTJ.
[00:18:16] Shannon Curran: Oh god.
[00:18:16] Mallory Lee: And I was like, first of all, okay, second, sounds cool. Like fine, take care.
[00:18:23] Shannon Curran: It means that people are hiring the wrong people as CEOs. It sounds,
[00:18:27] Mallory Lee: I guess. I
[00:18:28] Shannon Curran: guess,
[00:18:28] Mallory Lee: I guess so.
[00:18:29] Shannon Curran: I would love to know, Sandy, how it's changed your relationship with work as your son has gotten older.
[00:18:34] Shannon Curran: So. Like as he's become more independent or like, actually, does it feel like you need to be more present with him now because like, you're actually parenting not just keeping a, being alive. Like I, I feel like I'm in the alive stage a little still. Yeah. So would love to hear how that's changed over time for you.
[00:18:51] Sandy Robinson: So there's something you should also know. My son is in college, he's 14, but he is a junior at University of North Florida where he's an electrical engineering major. So. He was, I have so many
[00:19:06] Shannon Curran: questions.
[00:19:07] Sandy Robinson: I know, I know. Um, the, the
[00:19:09] Mallory Lee: look of the pure surprise on Shannon's face is amazing. Flip that, I already already knew all this, but Yeah.
[00:19:16] Mallory Lee: Yeah. I love it.
[00:19:17] Sandy Robinson: So when he was seven, he was like, my, my husband had taught him like algebra and stuff when he was like four and five and he just, we tested him. He was like off the charts IQ and, and that kind of thing. So my husband just kept feeding a map. And by the time he got to second grade, we were like, this is like, he shouldn't waste his time with this math.
[00:19:36] Sandy Robinson: And my husband thought it'd be a good idea to call up the dean of our com local community college and say like, Hey, he needs to take algebra there. Um, so when he was seven? Yeah. So we, we took him for like an interview and all this stuff and he just like knocked out all this stuff and they placed him in intermediate algebra.
[00:19:57] Sandy Robinson: So that's
[00:19:58] Shannon Curran: so fun.
[00:19:58] Sandy Robinson: When he was seven, a
[00:20:00] Shannon Curran: beginner algebra,
[00:20:01] Sandy Robinson: no intermediate, intermediate college. Right. So when he was seven, my husband and I would take turns driving him on campus and we'd have to sit with him. 'cause you know, at seven they don't, they pick their nose and they don't pay attention to shit anyways.
[00:20:13] Sandy Robinson: So I'm like, right, we'd sit with him in class. It's
[00:20:16] Shannon Curran: hard to navigate a college classroom at seven. I imagine
[00:20:19] Sandy Robinson: you, it was crazy. But like he understood this stuff and when my husband and I switched like. He, my husband took him like the first couple classes. Then I took him, and then the kid in the class were like, oh wait, he's taking the class, you know?
[00:20:32] Sandy Robinson: Oh my God. Like a 7-year-old. And he got an A in it. And then it just like went from there. It went from that to calc one, to Calc two to stats, and then he took all the math. So then we're like, let's do the bios, and then like, let's get an aa. So he got his AA when he was 12. He walked the stage. So at that point we decided we'd moved closer to UNF 'cause we're in Jacksonville, Florida.
[00:21:01] Sandy Robinson: We enrolled him in their engineering program. And so he was 13 when he started UNF. So all his buddies were going to high school. He was in eighth grade. He had just finished eighth grade, but he also got his AA at the same time when he was 12. That's
[00:21:14] Mallory Lee: wild.
[00:21:15] Sandy Robinson: And so. Uh, now his buddies are like sophomores in high school and he's a junior in engineering at UNF, so, uh, so he
[00:21:24] Shannon Curran: doesn't go to high school at all?
[00:21:25] Shannon Curran: He only
[00:21:26] Sandy Robinson: goes college? No, no. We, he did, he did homeschool graduation. And we had to do like, 'cause he was getting his aa the counselor's like, he's got 60 credits. Like we can't do anything more for you. Like here, like you gotta graduate him with his associates. So. Wow. We just figured, well what's the point of high school?
[00:21:44] Sandy Robinson: So it's, so to get back to your question, I'm like, how I'm more engaged on a different level of like responsibilities and like I can't go talk to the teacher now 'cause he's in like real like. College, you know, when he was at the junior college and he was younger, I could kind of go with him to office hours and sit in on the class, but I can't do that now.
[00:22:05] Sandy Robinson: And then now he's hit puberty and people that think he's like 17, you know? So anyway, it's, it's tough though 'cause it's a big load. It's a lot of classes and, um, so I try to like help balance the fun, make sure he plays with his buddies. I'll drive him to where he needs to go, but I've gotta be on him to like, literally.
[00:22:26] Sandy Robinson: Get your butt outta bed so you can ride your bike. 'cause we move like 10 minutes. It's a 10 minute bike ride to campus. So like I made him ride on, I'm on. Like, I got a podcast this morning, I can't take you so you're gonna have to ride and dogs are going in the garage. You need to get your butt outta here by eight 30.
[00:22:42] Sandy Robinson: Like so there's
[00:22:43] Mallory Lee: no school bus for college, it turns out.
[00:22:46] Sandy Robinson: No. And like kids live in the freaking dorm, so it's like we had to move. Originally, like my husband and IB both work remote, so I was like, oh, we'll just drive him to school. Yeah. But it turned out with traffic, it was like anywhere from 25 to 40 minutes.
[00:23:02] Sandy Robinson: Whoa. From where we lived and it didn't like, in theory it's, it all seemed fine. But then it's a small school, so like on Tuesdays and Thursdays he has a 9 45 class and a four 30 class. So anyway, that's what I deal with now is just like making sure he is on track. So when I travel. My husband will. He's like, he just needs to be responsible.
[00:23:23] Sandy Robinson: So I'm like texting him. I'm like, are you awake? And I'm looking on the stupid app. I'm like, I see you're still at the house. You haven't left for school. Like, you know, I'm like, you know, like, and I'm, you're tracking him
[00:23:34] Mallory Lee: from afar.
[00:23:36] Sandy Robinson: Oh my God. It drives me nuts. And he's just like, mom, mom, I'll be fine. I'll be on time.
[00:23:40] Sandy Robinson: And like, he leaves, you know, like 20 minutes before blast and I'm like. Oh, good God. I would die. You need to go Earth,
[00:23:46] Shannon Curran: so, yeah. Wow. I am blown away. I'm glad I didn't know this. I, I am,
[00:23:51] Mallory Lee: I know. Me too.
[00:23:52] Shannon Curran: I promise I prepared this interview. Okay.
[00:23:59] Mallory Lee: I didn't tell you because I wanted to see the surprise.
[00:24:02] Shannon Curran: Yeah. I love, I love it, Mallory, you have to book all the guests so that I'm surprised with some crazy thing that I hear on a, on every one of the calls. Okay. We surprise each other on every call. Wow. So does he do any like activities or anything?
[00:24:13] Shannon Curran: Because I feel like that's what I hear from a lot of my friends that have older kids, that they've become an Uber driver. That is what I've heard
[00:24:18] Sandy Robinson: what has happen. Oh yes. That was last night. So now he does jujitsu Tuesdays and Thursdays, and he's now gotten really into it. So he wants to train like. Train.
[00:24:30] Sandy Robinson: Train for real, like with real adults and class is supposed to be from six 30 to seven 30. So you know, I'm like, all right, I'm waiting there. And he's like, mom, I wanna stay in roll longer. And so like last night I was like, like the latest I can do is like eight. I gotta get back. I think it's bed. You know, like not only do you have to get to bed, so yeah, that part's rough is the.
[00:24:55] Sandy Robinson: Because the classes start getting later. Like when your kids are little, the classes are like 3 30, 4 o'clock. They're like right after school. I would take 'em to karate or Juujitsu or whatever he was doing, and. I'd sit there and I would do work, or, and I know I'd sit and watch TA class, take pictures or whatever, but it gets to a point where like you're, they don't want you to watch the class anymore.
[00:25:19] Sandy Robinson: I'm kind of like, I got stuff to do too. So that part, I, I literally texted my husband on Thursday last night and I was like. You know, I was not looking forward to him getting his driver's license, but I kind of am now, you know? Yeah. 'cause that's around the corner.
[00:25:33] Mallory Lee: I wanna revisit something you said about there was a period of time where you were traveling and your husband was traveling.
[00:25:39] Sandy Robinson: Mm-hmm.
[00:25:40] Mallory Lee: And with him being a consultant, I know those travel schedules are crazy. So for us it's like whoever has their trip on the Google calendar first gets to go. Mm-hmm. And so if you are not planning ahead and you're not putting it on the calendar, then the other person can like. Fuck their trip, and it's not that often that our stuff overlaps.
[00:25:59] Mallory Lee: So I'm curious to hear how you guys handled the overlap and is your husband still traveling a lot now?
[00:26:06] Sandy Robinson: No. So, so back then. E even if that happened, it like his, he would've taken precedence, like he was making a ton of money consulting and that's how he, that's how he like functioned, right? So,
[00:26:20] Mallory Lee: right.
[00:26:20] Sandy Robinson: I had like a job job, so I would've been the one to say like, Hey, I can't go.
[00:26:25] Sandy Robinson: But now that's what we do. Like we were talking about, I'm speaking at RevOps af right in San Francisco and that's May,
[00:26:32] Mallory Lee: yeah,
[00:26:33] Sandy Robinson: fifth and sixth I think. And he's like, oh, we gotta, we're gonna go, let's go to Formula One and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like. All right, well, if this is on the calendar, so I put my stu, I do that now.
[00:26:43] Sandy Robinson: I put everything on the Google calendar. As soon as I know about it, I put on the, on our Google calendar and so he can't come back and say, I forgot, or whatever. I'm like, it's on your calendar, babe. I have it on there. But anyway, we're figuring it out. But we have to juggle 'cause like we have, you know.
[00:26:59] Sandy Robinson: Where are we gonna fly from? What are we gonna do with Cam? And you know, like all that stuff. But
[00:27:03] Shannon Curran: yeah,
[00:27:03] Sandy Robinson: it's, we do that now too, the Google calendar. So, and now he works from home. He has like, you know, he's a CTO, but it's remote. Okay. It's much easier now that. Because he was working at like, he would be like CTO at a hospital.
[00:27:18] Sandy Robinson: So you'd have to go like work at a hospital system and we would move. We, we had like three, four moves for his job when I was remote. So you'd have to like, we picked up, went to Wisconsin one year, then we went to Vermont, we went to, we were in Mass, we were in the south coast area. You know, now he loves the working from home.
[00:27:38] Sandy Robinson: We're like Florida people. We've got a bunch of properties here. So like. It's so much better now that we're both remote because he's not having to be gone or to travel or whatever. And so that was, that was always hard, but it's, it's, it's easier. Now let's talk about our save of the week. Sandy, if you're prepared, would you like to start?
[00:27:58] Sandy Robinson: So, the save of the week for me was my coach. So I have a coach and oh, she's great. She's like an executive coach. I met her through a leadership program. Couple of years ago, and then I just hired her like, you know, to work with me on just personal stuff. Executive, like she's kind of an executive coach, but she does a lot of stuff so.
[00:28:22] Sandy Robinson: And she keeps me a little bit sane, so that's awesome. I had booked time with her. This was like, like last week was a crazy week and like, I mean, I don't know if we're supposed to talk about this stuff, but I told you like this perimenopause thing is like messing me up. So I'm like, talk about all
[00:28:37] Mallory Lee: of it.
[00:28:38] Sandy Robinson: Talk about anything. That's what we're here for. Freaking like hormones aligned and pills changing and they're like, you should do this. And then like when you. Lower estrogen, your hair falls out and like I've just been like freaking stressed all over, like trying to figure this stuff out. 'cause like in my mind, this has never happened, right?
[00:29:01] Sandy Robinson: Like you don't deal with it. But I'm starting to like be forced to deal with it. 'cause I'm like, why am I such a freaking hot mess? A rollercoaster all the time. So anyway, I've just finally accepted the fact that like, that's a thing. So she was definitely my save because being that I'm a D style, like if I feel like things are slipping out of control, I get like angry, I get frustrated and I'm like, err.
[00:29:24] Sandy Robinson: And I just, I need to vent. And so she definitely saved me. Like I, I had scheduled a call with her. She's super helpful, and she'll just like, you know, say, okay, like. Is this a you thing or is this a, you know, your husband thing or, or so and so, you know, like, what, what is this really about? You know? And
[00:29:45] Mallory Lee: yeah.
[00:29:45] Sandy Robinson: So it's just really helpful to have that, you know, she's really helped me also talk through like decisions I wanted to make for career and things like that. So yeah, she was definitely my save this week. Yeah. Wonderful. It's good to have
[00:29:59] Shannon Curran: somebody like that.
[00:30:00] Mallory Lee: Totally. Yeah. I'm jealous. I'm jealous of that.
[00:30:04] Mallory Lee: What about you, Shannon?
[00:30:05] Shannon Curran: Yeah, mine's also a person. So I am in this funny in-between where my daughter's not in daycare yet, but like it's coming up in the next two months. My son needs to move rooms at daycare. I feel like I bring up on every, every episode, but it's like so present for me right now. Um, it's
[00:30:21] all
[00:30:21] Mallory Lee: the things right now.
[00:30:22] Shannon Curran: All the things. So we're awaiting my son. They're gonna move him up early, not as early as your child went to college, but they're gonna move him a few months up into the preschool room. And so once he moves up, she can go in. Uh, my kids are kind of close in age so that it got a little funky with daycare.
[00:30:39] Shannon Curran: So I was. Doing my consulting work and just working with her at home. But once she started crawling, it was like, game over. She won't go on the carrier anymore. She won't go on the, it's just not working. And I have way more clients now and I'm like, this is just like getting really difficult. And I happened to be talking to one of the.
[00:30:56] Shannon Curran: Moms that's at the gym that I work at, and she has four kids, but they're all in school now. So her youngest is five and she's kinda going through some life changes. And I was like, Hey, like what are you doing during the day? And she was like, I don't know. And I was like, can you please watch my baby? So she's been coming over and watching her for two days during the week, just for a few hours.
[00:31:15] Shannon Curran: Wow. And the big save this week has been, I now have a local client, which I. Historically don't ever have, I, almost all my clients are in the Bay Area or they're like fully remote. Yeah. And I have a client that's in the Boston area and they have their executive calls on Tuesdays or executive meetings and they're all in person.
[00:31:33] Shannon Curran: So I was like, they were like, can you come in person? And I was like,
[00:31:37] Sandy Robinson: okay. Okay, okay.
[00:31:38] Shannon Curran: Okay. Um, yep. Uh, my daughter also still doesn't take a bottle, so she's like extremely attached to me. It's been this like very challenging navigation, so. I got to go on Tuesday. 'cause this woman, my, her name's Michael has been, had been with Willa for a week and now this was the second week and things were going well.
[00:31:55] Shannon Curran: She was comfortable in the house. She could deal with the dogs. They're the hardest part about watching my daughter and I was like totally present at work for the first time probably. Wow. Since I had her, since the end of my pregnancy. 'cause of how bad my pregnancy was too. It's like, it's been a long haul on this one.
[00:32:11] Sandy Robinson: Mm-hmm.
[00:32:11] Shannon Curran: Um. So, yeah, she is like an angel like in my life right now. Wow. And it's only for a little while and it's like so wonderful to come home and she just, like, Willow was happy and she had taken naps and she had eaten and she had had, she sent me a picture of her during the day and it was just like, wow.
[00:32:29] Shannon Curran: Like, it was like a major moment for me, I think as a working mom to have that moment of like
[00:32:34] Mallory Lee: having
[00:32:35] Shannon Curran: Whew.
[00:32:36] Sandy Robinson: Yeah. And then just being able to like. Be there in the moment at that beating and just like, you know, feeling like you and doing the thing that you do, doing your badass stuff, you know, like trying, trying, trying, trying,
[00:32:50] Shannon Curran: telling a bunch of boys how to run a business.
[00:32:51] Shannon Curran: Yeah. There. Hey, I told one boy that you had to change, deal outta his pajamas to go to school and then I had to go tell a bunch of others that I negotiate with men all day long. Good job. Yes. I lost the, I He's wearing his pajama shirt under a sweatshirt today though, guys. I tried. I tried. I tried.
[00:33:08] Mallory Lee: That is so acceptable to me.
[00:33:10] Sandy Robinson: The pajama pants end up in school now, like that's a thing in college. They wear like pajama pants, so my kid wears pajama pants to school all the time. I've let all of that go. The matching the, I just, I've let it all go. I used to be like, go back in and change. You have to match or like you have a stain on your shirt or whatever.
[00:33:29] Sandy Robinson: And now I'm like, I. Uh, there's nothing I can do. You're just gonna be you at this point.
[00:33:35] Mallory Lee: Oh, that's
[00:33:35] Sandy Robinson: great. All right, Mallory, what's your save?
[00:33:37] Mallory Lee: Okay, so I have a save of the week, and this is also one of my travel hacks, so I think this is like a double whammy here. So my save this week is my AirPods and probably that's my save a lot of weeks.
[00:33:52] Mallory Lee: But the reason is because I leave them in. And I'm not even listening to anything, but they just sort of like dull the chaos around me because I have three little boys and the volume is very, very high and I don't even notice that I'm wearing them. But it helps me just like have a little bit of, you know, muted sound or something.
[00:34:15] Mallory Lee: I don't know. It calms me down. And so there was one night this week I think it was. Tuesday where I was out cooking dinner, they were being crazy, and all of a sudden I realized I had my AirPods in and I was like, thank God that I just forgot to take these out of my ears. And then funny enough, that is also like my travel hack.
[00:34:37] Mallory Lee: So. I wear my AirPods from the moment I park my car at the airport to the moment that I like get onto the plane because I feel like I just am floating through security in my own little world of like quietness and it's a thing I guess for me. So I like the AirPods a lot and especially when I'm traveling.
[00:35:00] Mallory Lee: Love that.
[00:35:00] Sandy Robinson: So you do it in nor noise cancellation mode.
[00:35:03] Mallory Lee: Oh yeah.
[00:35:04] Sandy Robinson: Yeah. Okay. A hundred percent. I got you.
[00:35:06] Shannon Curran: Well, Mallory knows that I'm on, um, I'm in timeout for myself on AirPods right now 'cause I've lost three pairs in the last year. Mm. So I am, yeah. I can't be trusted. So I put, I force myself to buy these beats 'cause they're red and they're easier to find and I hate them.
[00:35:21] Shannon Curran: Um, they're not my save of the week. They fall out. You'll notice in every, in every, uh, episode. I'm like going like a little bit. Um, so yeah, that is. Mallory, I'm so happy for you that you keep AirPods 'cause you need them.
[00:35:35] Mallory Lee: Well, they've been through the washer and stuff, but I haven't lost them. So they're still kicking all like, love it.
[00:35:42] Mallory Lee: Four pairs that I rotate between. So
[00:35:46] Sandy Robinson: have you seen the new, um, what is the shocks? The company shocks where it, it, they, they have the technology. Yeah. And they have one that like clips around your, your like ear. So cool. And, um, I bought 'em for my husband for Christmas and I like put it on, it's, I'm like half thinking of it.
[00:36:07] Sandy Robinson: It doesn't have, it's not gonna block out sound, but it, it's more like you can hear your surroundings while you are hearing the, whatever's in your ear and clarity.
[00:36:18] Shannon Curran: Um,
[00:36:19] Mallory Lee: yeah.
[00:36:19] Sandy Robinson: And then they're more comfortable. 'cause they're not like in your ear, they're like on your ear. But I don't know, I was gonna try those.
[00:36:25] Sandy Robinson: Do
[00:36:25] Mallory Lee: people wear those for running? Is that a running thing as well? That's what I thought. That's how they
[00:36:30] Sandy Robinson: started, was running. And then at my old work, we were forced to wear headphones. It was like this controlling thing from the CEOI hated it. Fricking hated it. And I'm like, for women with like, that's
[00:36:43] Mallory Lee: odd
[00:36:44] Sandy Robinson: glasses and earrings.
[00:36:46] Sandy Robinson: Like, I could, I couldn't wear like what you wear, Mallory. I couldn't. I'd have too many headaches. So we'd have to be like, have, have these. Stupid things on everybody in the company. Wow. Like it was, it was ridiculous. Like a uniform.
[00:36:59] Shannon Curran: What the heck?
[00:36:59] Sandy Robinson: Oh my God. They sent you freaking three of them when you like new hire setups.
[00:37:03] Sandy Robinson: They sent like one and then two backups, like, so there was no excuse for the whole company. And I'm like, I'm buying my own stuff that like, it was more comfortable. So I bought these poly ear thingies that are like more for like, um, call center type of thing, but they were ear buds. But a lot of people had those shocks things because they weren't, you know, as invasive like in your ear.
[00:37:27] Sandy Robinson: 'cause your ear starts to hurt if you're like forced to wear 'em all day long.
[00:37:30] Shannon Curran: Well, I know we're coming up on the end here. As you're looking back on your career as being a mom and having kind of like a big executive job and a career you really care about, what advice would you give any women that are kind of thinking about going into this now?
[00:37:45] Shannon Curran: So whether they're a mom already or they're just like. Nervous, like you said, right? Like about mm-hmm. What it's gonna be like. Like do you have any advice that you'd give or any advice that someone gave you?
[00:37:53] Sandy Robinson: Yeah. Make sure you plan time for yourself. Like just be intentional about it. I, I didn't do a great job of that for a couple of years and when I shifted into focusing or on my health more on my fitness and time for me, then.
[00:38:12] Sandy Robinson: It kind of transformed everything for me. And I was, I felt like I was a better mom, better in, uh, with work and then the other like projects that I try to do on the side. Right. So I think you have to be intentional about that. And it's hard because there's shit you gotta do, places you have to take kids.
[00:38:32] Sandy Robinson: Work stuff and meetings and everything. So it, it's just really important to be intentional about that time for yourself, whatever it is. Whether it's a dance class, a yoga class, a something where it's like just you and you know, okay, I'm doing this twice a week, or I'm doing this once a week, or whatever it is, and girls trips.
[00:38:51] Sandy Robinson: I've always done with my best friend an annual girls trip. We haven't planned it yet, but we usually do at least, you know, five days or some four or five days or something like that. Um, that is wonderful. Like when, when, when our son was younger, it was maybe not as long or I would like tag it in with a work trip and I'd be like, okay.
[00:39:11] Sandy Robinson: I've gotta go to New Orleans for work. Why don't you meet me here two days early? And like, that was a girl's trip. Um,
[00:39:16] Mallory Lee: yeah.
[00:39:16] Sandy Robinson: But yeah, try to, I try to be intentional about doing that. So I, you've got something just, uh, you know, just me. Just us.
[00:39:23] Mallory Lee: I love that advice. It's counterintuitive because you're very busy.
[00:39:28] Mallory Lee: You feel like you don't have time for anything, and it's like, okay, now take extra time and do something totally different. That is not on your to-do list. But I think you're right. I think it just gives you that time to decompress and yeah, figure things out. A
[00:39:43] Sandy Robinson: hundred percent.
[00:39:43] Mallory Lee: Cool.
[00:39:44] Sandy Robinson: A hundred percent.
[00:39:46] Mallory Lee: Cool.
[00:39:46] Mallory Lee: Well, thank you Sandy, so, so much. Um, you're welcome. We had so much fun talking to you and learning from you, and I think my biggest takeaway is. That perimenopause will be coming for me and I need to be ready. God,
[00:39:59] Sandy Robinson: it's so stupid. Like I just hate admitting it. Like, honestly, just like literally just the last couple of months I've admitted okay, maybe that's why I am such a psycho sometimes.
[00:40:10] Sandy Robinson: Um,
[00:40:11] Shannon Curran: comes for us all. I hear it
[00:40:12] Sandy Robinson: comes for
[00:40:12] Shannon Curran: us all. So
[00:40:13] Sandy Robinson: it, it's, it's ridiculous. So, um, but yeah, just. Just gotta take it one day at a time and talk to people. I've got lots of friends dealing with it too, so you know, it helps. For sure.
[00:40:26] Mallory Lee: Yeah. Yeah. Well hang in there. Thank you for seeing us today.
[00:40:30] Sandy Robinson: Thank you.
[00:40:30] Sandy Robinson: Awesome. Thank you so much for having me, and I'm so honored to be your first guest, so thank you very much. Thanks for listening to Full Stack Moms.
[00:40:37] Mallory Lee: We'll be back with more episodes that help you see you're not crazy and you're not alone. If we might be your people, please make sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:40:48] Sandy Robinson: My 14-year-old doesn't like to get outta bed at this point, so, you know, that part, uh, it just, it just kind of turns the other way when they get older, you know, and you gotta scream at 'em, pound on the door, and then they say they're getting up and then you go back 30 minutes later and they're not.
[00:41:05] Mallory Lee: That's like I've seen in movies here, like yanking on their feet to try to get them outta the bed.
[00:41:10] Sandy Robinson: Oh, I've done everything. I've literally thrown water on him. Um, I, I, like, he's got this loft bed that's really high, so I'll like slap his foot, you know, 'cause I can't like reach him. Totally. Yeah. So it's like one of those really high ones that from Ikea. And I'm like, dude, get out of bed. And then it just reeks.
[00:41:34] Sandy Robinson: Like, you guys have boys, right? I know me. You've got
[00:41:39] Mallory Lee: got a handful
[00:41:40] Sandy Robinson: of those. Yeah. Yeah. They just get stinkier.