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The podcast for high-level leaders carrying the invisible weight of the world.
If you’re a founder, executive, or high-ranking leader, you already know this truth: the higher you rise, the fewer people you can safely talk to.
Lonely at the Top is a sanctuary in the storm—a space where the emotional cost of leadership is named, and where relief, clarity, and grounded support are always on the table.
Hosted by Soul Medic and former psychotherapist Rachel Alexandria, this podcast dives into the unspoken realities of high-level decision-making: the pressure, the isolation, the doubt, and the fatigue. Each episode offers insight, emotional tools, and conversations with seasoned leaders who’ve learned to navigate the weight of responsibility without losing themselves.
"Where it gets skewed is when people look at someone in my position as a potential target to take advantage of. There's no time when you are more prey to people who pretend to want to help you out
Welcome to Lonely At the Top, a podcast for high level leaders carrying the invisible weight of the world on their shoulders. Because you know the higher you rise, the fewer people you can safely talk to. Here we welcome founders, executives, and decision makers who feel the isolation and pressure that comes with power.
Lonely at the top is your sanctuary in the storm, and I'm your host, Sol Medic and former psychotherapist, Rachel Alexandria. Today, I've been so excited for this interview for a while. Today we have Meg Glu is she's the owner and CEO of Catalent Solutions Incorporated, one of the largest certified women owned chemical distributors in North America.
She's the first female chair of the Board of Alliance for Chemical Distribution, driving Industry innovation and leadership. Under her guidance, Catalent was named to the 2023 Middle Market Fast 50 list by a Puget Sound Business Journal, where she was also honored as a fast 50 leader. Meg is a winner of the Ernst and Young Entrepreneur of the Year 2023, recognizing her impact on business growth and innovation.
I am so honored that you have taken the time to come and be on the show today. Thank you so much, Meg.
Thanks for having me. I'm really happy to be here.
Yay. So we've known each other for a little bit of time,
We have.
Connected by, one of my friends who, thought that you might want to do some work with me.
Yes,
Yeah. If that's okay. That we talk about or mention that.
Of
Yeah. , I know a great deal about a lot of the testing that you've been, you've gone through. You're actually one of the reasons why I created this show because you and some of my other CEO clients kept saying to me just kind of off the cuff how lonely it is at the top, and that I am one of the few people that you get to just lay your burdens down with.
And I thought, well, we should talk about that on the show.
Yes, we should. should. 'cause it isn't talked about often enough I think.
Yeah. So how long have you been in leadership in general?
I'll just give a quick snapshot. I, I started my career actually, in law. I was an attorney first in the Midwest, and then I moved out to the west coast. when I was making, the decision to move to Seattle, actually, I met, through the introduction of a former law school classmate, who owned a chemical distribution company.
And the introduction was made simply because I was interviewing at various law firms in Seattle. the thought was that he had this friend that knew people and maybe he would know somebody who knew something about the tone and culture of these firms. And I could get some advice and where to interview. I sat down with him and, he and I hit it right off. He formed this company. Founded this company after he graduated from West Point and did military service out here , on the West Coast. And I didn't know anything about the industry. I didn't know anything about him, and I didn't know anything about his company.
, But we had a lovely chat and, through an interesting chain of what I now know to be not at all coincidental events, he ended up offering me a job as the company's general counsel and for reasons that probably couldn't articulate to you right now, uh, I decided to take that job and I assumed that I wouldn't work here very long.
Honestly, I didn't know if in-house counsel was a role I wanted. I didn't know anything about this company. I wasn't even really sure why I took the job. But ultimately I ended up falling in love with the business of this company. And, as my position in the company grew, my leadership grew.
I became the president first, and then the CEO taking over for him. And ultimately the conversation began to move in the direction of his retirement, his desire to leave the business. He was at that season of his life, and I was sort of at the start of my really middle aged, productive years, I guess.
Mm-hmm.
I said to him one day, I said, if I could figure out the financing. Would you sell this business to me? He thought about it and, and we talked and ultimately , that's what happened.
Mm
I bought the majority of the business in 2019 with the idea that he would slowly leave whenever he felt like, and then I would acquire the remaining shares. But, a few weeks after the ink was dry on that paperwork, the government
hmm.
the economy for a global pandemic,, which is a separate
right.
and of itself.
Talked about one of the scariest moments of my life, 'cause I've never been more leveraged as I was in that moment. And,
Hmm.
and he just wasn't, just felt like, I don't know if I wanna keep doing this all the time. And so within a year I acquired, the remainder of the company.
Wow.
the company from him, we were doing about, $ 48 to $50 a year in revenue, and now we do a pretty steady $100 million a year in revenue.
wow,
the size of the company in that time, not by myself. I have an incredible team of people around me and, am really, really well networked with amazing, business partners all over the world. But that is the very abbreviated version of, of how I got here.
that's so incredible and intense sounding.
Yeah. Yeah.
So how do you find the wherewithal to make those huge leaps? I mean, there's no one out there in front. You're the one saying, I think I wanna buy this business. Oh, now I'm facing a pandemic. And somehow I managed to double the size of revenue of the company
Mm-hmm.
in six years.
Mm-hmm.
Like where do you find that within yourself?
I think that it's important for me to say that the place that I'm coming from is not, you know, I grew up on food stamps in rural Iowa. Okay. There's not a rich uncle here behind this situation, and there's certainly not, an example of how this gets done in my life. I didn't grow up around people who were making big strategic moves and learning how to leverage assets and like, none of that was something that I i'm a
Yeah.
person in a lot of ways. I will say though, that the answer to your question and sort of the nexus of where I came from answers the question. There is within me, a very strong intuitive side and probably what led me to be working with you,
Mm-hmm.
a again, offering that nothing is really an accident, right?
Or a coincidence. How do I dream this? Or how do I envision this? Or how do I make that decision isn't really mine, if that makes sense. How do I meet this man and all of a sudden feel the pull to say, yeah, I'll take your job as counsel.
Mm-hmm.
all an intuitive moment for me, honestly.
Yeah. Yeah.
of the large moments I've had in business, not most all. All of the large moments I've had in business have an intuitive element to them. And so I would say that quite honestly, my climb here has been a lot that. Do not confuse that with luck or good fortune though, either. Those are different things, but this idea that there is a. I have a side gig as a yoga teacher, right? So I use a lot of that language too. But there is a dharma that each of us have, and then there's a path that leads those things.
I, I, I think a lot of that of conspired in my favor here. I've been able to be really responsive to that and then lend my efforts in the
Mm-hmm.
that wants me to go.
Yeah. Yeah. You've just. Stayed open is what it sounds like. You've been attentive and seen where opportunity presents itself and then worked your butt off
Yes.
it. Yeah, it's so interesting. Most of the CEOs that I know most of them have been clients and they are very successful, all came from poverty,
Yeah.
which I don't think is the typical CEO story.
So it just happens that my sample size for whatever reason, is people who came from very difficult financial circumstances. And I think that's part of what lends to that. No rescuer is coming. I better hustle my butt off
Yeah,
you know?
I would agree with that. And I think that the colloquial wisdom there is then, we fear poverty and so we work really hard and there's probably a huge element of that at play. But I think the less often discussed part is that it does make us resourceful in a
Mm-hmm.
we wouldn't otherwise have been. There real gifts to that. And there are real, I call myself scrappy, but there's a very strong sense of this failure isn't an option.
Literally.
what am I going to do? There's some gift in that that I
Yeah.
overlook because people can confuse my drive or the drive perhaps, of some of your other clients with a desire for, a, a greediness or a, a power
Mm-hmm.
really it at all.
Mm-hmm.
it really is, there's so much goodness in enterprise and in business that we don't talk about.
Mm-hmm.
and there is something really, redemptive about being able to help other people pull themselves up too, when you've been able to do it for yourself
Mm-hmm. And that's something you're doing with your company?
100% every day.
Yeah. Tell us a little bit more about that.
I have a sort of thing that I talk about, and I call it human-centered capitalism, and the concept being that, that there is a way to not shy away from the idea of profitability. I mean, simplest form, if I'm not making money here, I can't provide jobs. Okay. There
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
know the difference between revenue and profit.
Right? But if I make a hundred million dollars in revenue, I don't have a hundred million dollars in profit. In fact, quite the contrary. And so that, that gross profit number is how I pay people. It's how I pay for their, I pay a hundred percent of health insurance benefits for my employees
I, I, I do things like that, right?
But that's
Mm-hmm.
a lot of employees kids sport teams to have new uniforms and jerseys and our company thrives on the ability to be really charitable every year.
Mm.
our favorite season here every year is just this season of looking around.
When people go to the grocery store and they see someone who can't quite make it across the scanner, they pull out a company card and they pay that grocery bill, and we share
Oh,
We celebrate that.
that's so cool.
It is. And what ends up happening when people are able to elevate their status in life and where they thought they were gonna go.
When they start to elevate and their cup gets full, then that cup spills over and
Mm-hmm.
people who wanna help other people do that. And we slowly build on that. And this just becomes this cool self-fulfilling cyclone of really cool stuff. That is not to say that we don't enjoy comfortable standards of living here. That's not to say that we don't give employee raises for the sake of them being able to go buy a bigger house or a better car, whatever it is that they desire.
Mm-hmm.
that is bad either.
Mm-hmm.
have this idea of saying that we can take of that abundance and all of that profitability and we can better the environment around us
and
Mm-hmm.
with that.
And so I call that like a human-centered capitalism. Just this idea of being exactly what we say. We're not ashamed, we're a for-profit corporation, but
Mm-hmm.
something with that that's really, really meaningful also suggesting that every employee here ought to live without that house if they want it without that new car.
I have employees here that barely graduated high school and are buying their first house. I love that.
Wow, that's amazing.
a
Especially now. Wow.
And it's like some of them are changing the course of lineage and ancestry of their whole families.
So that's, I guess what we're about and what we're doing part, I mean, we're doing a lot of things, but that's one that I'm obviously most proud
Yeah. That's incredible. I, I didn't know that
Yeah.
for listeners who might like this is genuine me enjoying, genuinely, me being like, that's amazing.
So let's talk then about. You're in a position where you're helping change people's lives, and you clearly perceive that as making the company be profitable enough so that you can do these things.
That's a lot of weight and responsibility.
Yeah.
So let's talk about then carrying that weight and when you've gone through a time or a season that has really tested you.
yeah. I think I'm in that right now. I've been in a lot of them, but I think sometimes it makes sense to talk about the past and, and sometimes it makes good sense to talk about the present. Obviously the pandemic was hard. In the sense that we were in a time of great uncertainty, and I am, my undergraduate degree was in history, and I still nerd
Hmm.
So the ink is barely dried on this paperwork in which I've literally leveraged my entire being. And ultimately made a commitment to the person who sold me this business, do the right thing with this thing that he built. And I, I take all of that really, really seriously. And I owe money all the time everywhere.
I, I have a large business. There are banks, there are people who
Yeah.
supplies. There are people who sell me drums for my manufacturing plant Chicago. I didn't wanna let anybody down and the uncertainty that came with that time is almost indescribable for me
Hmm.
that moment. And what was horrible for that time was that there was no book I could go in and look at like, okay, well how did people handle the last great global pandemic when we shut?
Yeah, no, I know.
you, you just, I, I got on the Zoom call with my entire company and I said, listen, I've never been here before I don't know what we're going to do and I don't know what's coming, but I know we're gonna be okay and this is the first thing we're gonna do.
Everybody's taking a pay cut and the largest pay cut is me. percentage of pay cut will be largest based on higher salaries. So the more you
Mm.
more your pay cut is. And we took a graduated scale like that
Mm
we're gonna do this and run leaner operations until I know what out of the woods looks like.
And when that is, I'll tell you all when that is and I'll restore everybody. ultimately what ended up happening is we found opportunity where we didn't normally know to look for it.
mm.
did what we always did, but better. We did new things. We made new products, we sold new products, we sold more old products.
We just doubled down and I think we all worked harder than we'd ever worked before, and I was able to restore every one of their salary and pay them all their back wages.
Wow.
and it felt amazing.
Mm-hmm.
so we got through that and yet the hope and the sort of elation of that leaves me in this present moment where we find ourselves.
I don't know when this airs, but we're recording in August and the uncertainty surrounding tariffs,
Mm-hmm.
like that. For someone like myself who has an international business and also a manufacturing component to that, I am both an American manufacturer and also an importer. And my customers are all American companies who make things. And the
Hmm.
that we find ourselves in, the inability to forecast, the inability to plan causes us to be in a time when no one again knows what's coming. And I feel like in my business, I never know I'm gonna be okay in a month I'm at the end of the month.
And so what is happening if you, say there are 20 or 22 business days in a month, don't know, till business day 19 that
Wow.
And I've never been in a season like this. I've never, you have to remember I was an attorney before this and, and then , you and your listeners can infer obviously a very type A kid, right?
Planning for me is important and my
Yeah.
that and my inability to see what's coming or to know what's going to happen, has made this a very challenging time for me. I literally have nothing left to do, but to fly this plane by the instruments
Mm-hmm.
and the information I have available to me.
And then, again, moving the energy in the spirit of failure is not an option and keep going forward. That's
Mm-hmm.
have. Mm-hmm.
Oh, I feel the anxiety as you talk about it, and I imagine some of our listeners might too. That's kind of terrifying. You know?
Yeah.
For those who might not be necessarily in that place, what it makes me think of is late last night, I was driving back from the middle of California, like up in the mountains.
We left early enough to get off the top of the mountain before it got dark. But then we're just on 99 somewhere, between Fresno and Bakersfield. It's just nothing. It's just, it's just black. Except for when there's construction and random bright lights shining in your face.
There's just you and the few cars on the road who are also whatever, and the road will twist and turn. It's just one of those dark, two lane freeways. And there's just a low key, maybe this is an exaggeration to say, but it's a low key terror
Yeah,
the whole time. There's literally nothing about that that I can relax 'cause I don't know the road.
That's the thing, right? Like I've been on dark roads when I know the road and you know you still have to be at detention 'cause you're like, well things could jump out. I can't see everything, but it's okay. But when you don't know the road and it's dark and it twists, that's a lot to hold on an ongoing basis.
And that sounds like exactly where you're at.
That's exactly where I'm at, and I don't know when that road ends and I don't know when morning is coming.
Hmm. The poet in me is like, Ooh, that's, yeah. Feels that. What do you do with that emotionally? How do you handle that? I mean, it sounds like when the pandemic started, at the very least you were able to talk to your employees and say, you know, I don't know what I'm gonna do or what's gonna happen, but here's what we're gonna try, and then we're all gonna sort it out.
Does that help alleviate any of the emotional burden? Talk to us about the, kinda the behind the scenes of that emotionally.
There's two parts that happen when you're the person at the top, and this goes directly to the name of your podcast, right? In the emotional side, I can do is I, I'm a big, I speak a lot on leadership. I move in, places where I'm coaching and educating other people like me how to do this. And one of the things I talk about is that we, we always, we just have to stay focused on, on attending to ourselves first.
Mm.
And so. One of the things I know to do, part of my story is that I have a decent length of sobriety. So I know the power of practices and self disciplines in order to keep, the vibration and the frequency for your life that you want.
Mm-hmm.
of the things I know to do is to stay in my practices, to keep
Mm
moving, be mindful about what I consume, whether that be food or news, to be
mm.
of engaging in my yoga practice, my meditation practice, to stick with the things that I know that I need. Even though when you're in these darkest places, and we all know what this is like. None of it ever feels like it's working and it's not enough, and this isn't solving the problem and what the hell is going on?
All that's happening, at least I'm aware and I'm watching that. And then the second element of that personal side is having a place to go. And I'll, I'll talk about that in a minute, because having a place to go has a ton of asterisks after it. When you're in a place of crisis as a leader.
Hmm.
time when you are more prey to people who pretend to want to help you out than those moments.
Yeah.
come back to that, but the second side of that is that people, teams, companies, families, whatever, crave leadership at all times.
Mm-hmm.
you are the leader of a company like I am, is not a place for me to sit down and shower everyone with my uncertainty or what happens for me behind
Mm-hmm.
That's not my role in their life, and that's not their role in my life.
Mm-hmm.
I must stand up every day and have the optimism that I have in front of me and out in front of them it's just like a kid being afraid of the dark. Everything's okay when someone walks in the room and says you're safe. I'm not gonna let anything happen. same psychology really is present in a lot of ways in a business. And so
Hmm.
sought counsel from a lot of people who are in my position before. People I consider mentors. I had a person tell me, actually yesterday in an email, he's one of my favorite people, but he just wrote to me, he said, Meg, get up, adjust yourself, lead your company with optimism and decide you're going to win and tell everyone that's what's going to happen and you're gonna help them get there and they will follow you because people want to follow someone. And I
Mm-hmm.
like, that's it, isn't it? And so that's the other side of the, like what is happening emotionally is one thing in one place.
And there are boxes where that can happen. But then in the job, the leadership role, are places for my humanity, but times of uncertainty and darkness. I'm not the only one in that car on that dark road, Rachel. But I am the driver and everybody in the car has to feel safe. Full stop there.
There's
Mm-hmm.
nobody else is coming to, to do that.
Yeah.
I don't know about you, but in times like that, I'd rather be the driver.
Yeah, I think so. Listen, everybody who's listening to this, who is a CEO or whatever, knows damn well that every day you wake up wishing it wasn't you and knowing it can't be anybody but you because you'd be the world's shittiest passenger. You know what I mean? So that, that is sort of the, that's sort of the rub, isn't it?
That's why you're there. Yeah. Yeah. I am. Yeah. I wish I wasn't on the road. Yeah. But, but yeah. I mean, my fiance is like, I can drive, and I'm like, I will feel worse. I would so much rather be the one driving.
It's true. It's true.
Oh, well, so let's open. The private ledger because no one gets to see your balance sheet of burdens when you're at the top. Like you say, you can have moments of vulnerability, but generally
Mm-hmm.
you have to bring the part of you that's like, this is gonna work out. We're gonna figure it out. Here we go.
And not the, the messy books inside.
Yeah,
Can you share with us one cost that you have paid for being in leadership?
there are a lot. Peace in a lot of ways, and I don't, I
Hmm.
I think I have a lot less opportunity for rest. For peace, true peace. Business ownership at my level with as many irons as I have in the fire requires a certain amount of It doesn't have to be hyper vigilance. And that's the, the work I
Hmm.
you candidly. But it does require a certain level of vigilance, which can take away from your ability to ever truly and totally relax other people do.
Yeah.
advised a lot of businesses, I've been near a lot of people in business. I did not understand that, what I call the low key simmer of the pot
Yeah.
this seat. It's just always on. There's just
Yeah.
People say, are you gonna take a week of vacation and just, unplug? That doesn't. That doesn't happen. And, the feedback that the world, people who've read books at the business section at Barnes and Noble wanna tell you like, oh, that's not true, everybody. And it's like, yeah, that's not, until you're here. You just kind of don't know until, you know.
Mm-hmm.
it's not to say I don't have a happy life. It's not to say that I don't have peace at times. It's not that. It's just I'm always on at
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
And that's a cost. That costs taxes a lot of areas of your life.
Yeah. Well, I think that's why every person who sits in the office of President visibly ages dramatically over the four years of the eight years they're there. Yeah. What is one invisible asset you didn't realize you had at the time?
This isn't my asset, but this is like a, a gift I get that no one
Okay.
So I get to see everything. When you're at the very top of the pyramid, so to speak. And we can have an argument later or a, a discussion later about hierarchical leadership, but it works, here. And so I am the top of the pyramid.
The buck stops here. And
Mm-hmm.
I get to see everything and the asset, the win that I get that nobody else gets is that I get to watch all these little places of growth in individuals
Hmm.
to watch all these wins, every single one of them. things that are going really right or moments where mistakes were made and maybe nobody knows that I saw it, but then I watched them clean it up and there's something for me in that. It also gives me access to, what I call good power.
Mm.
have the ability to make changes. I have more power than other people have.
do a lot of things with power. And this is not to say that I've always been amazing with power.
I'm, I'm still I'll forever be a work in progress in handling my own relationship to power. But I think I do a pretty good job of doing good power
of that, I have the ability, the asset is to make changes. I can make things happen in people's lives that fundamentally alter the course of their lives. And it can be done in secret, which is my favorite way to do it, honestly. where just they know and I know and maybe a small select crew. And then you watch people and their families and things like that just change. And that's an asset that I think a lot of business owners in this country flex and do it the same exact way that I do quietly and privately. For reasons we can discuss later. A lot of them just have to do with, there's a reason that some of the largest gifts are given anonymously and there's something in that
Right.
and, and that's an asset. That's my favorite thing.
Mm.
I miss maybe when I don't do this anymore. There are things I won't miss, but, but that'll be one.
So I would take from that, 'cause that is a gift you receive or that's a benefit you get from doing the job you do. I would take from that, that your invisible asset is how much you love people.
Yeah, do. And further to that, I not only love them, but I believe that it is my dharma help people rise.
Mm-hmm.
It is not to say that every person needs to become a CEO, that might not be in their
No,
But
yeah.
that I was gifted the way I was, was to a person who might not know that they're capable of more and give them the place and the opportunity and the feedback, both good and constructive to do that.
And I'm gifted in doing that 'cause I care for them. I think everybody who works for me knows that I care for them. I think they would say just as my kids would, she is firm, but she's loving
Hmm.
that they would say that in sincerity.
I think there are fewer, better compliments, but we are in some ways cut from the same cloth,
equal parts huge, loving heart, and don't mess with me.
Yeah. Yeah.
So tell us one investment. I mean, you've kind of covered this, but maybe there's something else. One investment that you are making now for your wellbeing or your soul.
I am really doubling down. So when things get economically tough and you're a person like I am, you just talked about that big heart, so this actually parlays perfectly into this, very hard for me to justify continuing to have, the support that I need, because that's an expense or that's a a use of time, like assets are all of all different kinds. There's time, there's energy, there's attention, there's money, obviously there's, there's all of those things. And sort of when you're in my spot, this question of whether I should be doing that, whether I should be investing in that.
So, the truth is though, maybe there's no more important time to have that, to have a coach. I do my coaching with you. I have a personal trainer for my physical body. I have somebody that helps me with some Ayurvedic practices and, and things like
Hmm
I need all of those things right now in order to make sure that I continue to, as I said earlier, come out and really lead from a place of believing that better is coming. I do believe that. some days I need to make sure that I'm strong enough to still have the ability to come on out and say that, and to
mm-hmm.
energized when I do.
Yeah, a hundred percent. I, I am the same way. Even when I've been fairly broke, which has happened a number of times in my life, I always spent more probably than most average middle class or even maybe upper middle class people on support and care for my body and my spirit, because I'm, I just can't, I can't do this alone.
That's right. right. And I think every CEO and business owner leader has to have a place where they can go to say the shit that can't stay in our bodies and
Mm-hmm.
to literally dump and, I mean, it sucks for you having, I mean, you're on the other end of my pile there, right? So
It doesn't,
but, but you know what I mean?
Like, there, there
no.
sort of a, a place to go get that out. It has to leave. Right? a word about that place, said I would come back to this 'cause this is really, really important and I think relevant to your listeners. The higher you go, the more successful you get, the more people come to your door claiming to be the people that are here to help. I wasn't born in this role. I have been burned. I have had to learn who's there for my best interests and who's here for theirs. I have become very, very clear that I don't get advice on areas in my life from people whose services are in those areas in my life. So for example, not going to take, investment advice like a should I do this or not?
From somebody who stands to profit
Mm-hmm.
of that transaction. Does that make sense? Somebody has to
Totally.
in the game other than I want you to be okay Meg.
Yeah.
to be okay Catalent So the advisors in my life, most of the people who give me good, true, solid advice are people who just as a rule of thumb, tend to bill me for their time, not people who get a commission based on my decision that I
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
tend to be people who come from a business where the professional service is what's being offered and I'm paying for the service and not for a product. And I think that's so important because I like the road analogy a lot, but the darker that road is and the more there's you know, construction and things are crazy, the more lights are also gonna be coming at you.
And it, there are people who know that, they know that right now they, have to be a huge student of economics to know right now is a really uncertain time in business. It's a great time to go out and scoop up people out of their misery and sell them a false bill of goods and, ride on that misery. I have had
Mm-hmm.
to be careful that and I have had to learn to trust my gut when it comes to those people. And then when I find the people that I trust, I pay them and I use them for their gifts
Mm-hmm.
their offering to me. think that is something that, it's just so hard. It's so hard. It's not talked about often enough. How many businesses do you know? I'm sure you hear it all the time. They're like, oh, my ideal client type is a high net worth individual who dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. And it's like, well,
Sure.
you know what I mean?
Mm-hmm.
coming at you. And so you have to find people that have the right intention behind that and who, whose only desired outcome is for you to be okay and your business to be okay
Yeah.
the side they're in.
Yeah, I totally get that. And I'll just be. Wow. I'm not even sure what I'm gonna say about this, but I feel like I can be transparent in, identifying that eventually in my business I did target folks. Target sounds so mercenary, but let's be honest, if you're in business, you have to make a profit.
You have to sell your services and receive funds. That's how commerce works. And I used to be like, I think a lot of helpers and healers and feelers who make that their business, I used to be very wary of ever coming across mercenary, ever being like, oh, nobody likes sales, nobody likes marketing, you know, blah.
And I'm, almost 20 years in now. And I just had to get good with being like, yes, I'm here to make a sale. And I'm also very clear. That I will not take someone's money who I cannot help. I am here as a helper and this is just the exchange. And I I'm a better person to help because I know I let people go when it's not the right time or when they complete or whatever.
I have really strong financial and emotional integrity, and I'm a better person to serve this client than lots of people who don't.
Yeah, and I think there's nothing wrong with wanting to make money. First of all, it gets weird when people. And you're right. I bet it's even harder in the healing space. I'm, I'm not there, but
So bad.
my, but,
It's terrible.
but there's also a lot of judgment and yuck, you know, in that space too.
I even find it like even within the community sometimes, like when I'm doing my yoga gig or whatever
Mm-hmm.
here's the deal. If you're helping out somebody at my level, what do you think my days are spent doing? I'm trying to make money, so I look at another person who gets what that's about.
Like, yeah, you're doing it too. Like, we're both in the, we're both
Mm-hmm.
and, the worst thing somebody could do is come to me and, and act like making money or wanting to make money or have a
Is bad.
bad. I'm not
Yeah.
that. I've already
No.
You know,
Yeah,
and so I think what it comes down to is really is your service that you're bringing, that I'm paying you to do is the intention behind that to help me,
yeah.
which then in turn helps you. Or is it to push me in a direction which helps you more than I'm being helped? For me,
Right?
the
Yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
if we're both intending to make money, we should be right. I want you to be on that wavelength with me
Absolutely. Mm-hmm.
supposed to keep me on that wavelength.
And you don't want that hidden shadow shit
not
a person who's pretending like they don't wanna make money or that that's not part of the goal,
Yes.
that's a lie. That's gonna be a lie with anybody unless they are independently wealthy, which,
and if
you know, good for them,
help me. you know what I
right?
make you
Yeah.
but if your truth is I don't believe that anybody should have money and everybody should have the same and dah dah, that's great. I'm not there though.
Mm-hmm.
got 60 families. Some of them have kids in braces and mortgage payments and things like that.
I, I gotta turn a profit here.
Mm-hmm.
it's sort of a, a thing where I feel like what I'm looking for is the intention of that, and the intention for both people, myself included,
Mm-hmm.
care of fairly
Yeah.
and fair compensation can be high compensation
Mm-hmm.
for the service provider. Provider. And then the return for me. it gets skewed is when people look at someone in my position as a potential target to take advantage of.
Absolutely. You're not a pinata. Right. And that's,
right.
and I I love that you're bringing this up because I think that is one of the big causes of that loneliness at the top is that so many people either are reliant on you to know what to do all the time and need your help. Some of whom are supposed to be reliant on you and some of whom are not, but still look at you and say, oh, you're a leader.
Let me fall down in front of you so you can pick me up. But also people who want to unethically, get some of the cash,
Yeah,
and I mean, they say that about celebrities, right? They mostly only have friends from before they were famous because you just can't trust anybody who comes along after.
I get it. also sort of mentality, and I don't, I'm gonna speak really broadly here because I talk to a lot of people. I like, you have a lot of people who have reached a level of success in their life and then, come from background. There's an energetic shift that has to happen and I still need to do more of my own work here of what happens when you do become in possession of more?
How do we deal with our own guilt? And even sometimes perhaps shame about that? you're not careful, someone who smells that unresolved part of you can.
Mm-hmm.
Wanna come take advantage of that. And then there's this dialogue
Yeah.
you have more than you personally need, so you should give it to me.
Let me alleviate you of this burden of guilt by taking the money that's causing it.
yeah. And that, and
that's not okay.
different conversation because I want to be a person who is compassionate and things like that. But I also need to be honest and say that a huge part of how I got here was a tremendous amount of self-accountability, self-work, self-reflection, picking myself up from a lot of dusty places that I created for myself and clamoring my way through to my path.
am not then to be expected to just pay for somebody to avoid their own all the time. And
Oof.
the misconception. If
Mm
good, you can pull on my heartstrings. Remember what it was like when you were here, Meg? It was so dark. It was, and it was. The first year after I quit drinking was shit.
mm.
But if I bail somebody out of that first year, I can guarantee you they're not getting to year two.
Mm-hmm.
it's just, it's like that and so many things in life. And so when you throw money into that and you throw people's energy around that, into that, gets really scary because then I start to understand some of the viewpoints that I used to judge.
Mm.
world of opening up. But, the point is to have a place to go to roll around in that a little bit where then nobody's gonna see your soft underbelly of that and kick you there.
'cause
yeah.
comes up. is never just business.
No,
come up.
yeah, I totally agree with that. I don't sit in a CEO spot. I mean, I'm the CEO of my small company, but I, I walk through life with a lot of leadership in lots of other ways.
And when I was in grad school, I had a very like seminal moment where we were doing self-evaluations and we had to do them with our cohort.
Mm-hmm.
like a group of people who were in our same peer level. And this is why I was in my twenties, I was much earlier in my personal work, obviously, and I was like, you know, I know I'm doing lots of things well.
I say to my peers, can you guys tell me what I'm not doing well? Like, what am I missing? Because I was kinda like, what else am I supposed to be doing here? You know, I feel like I'm, I'm doing well, but is there stuff to work on? Is there some meat here? And they just laid into me. I mean, this is my story, my experience, but it was really painful.
I was crying and I felt like, oh, here's all the things I'm doing wrong. I mean, imagine a, a handful of therapists in training,
Yeah.
um, seeing somebody who normally has a lot of self possession, turning and offering their underbelly. And some of them took advantage of that and decided to kick me there. And there was a person that I was able to go to be like, oh, I need to fix all these things about myself.
And she was like, absolutely not.
Mm-hmm.
Absolutely not. And what they did was so inappropriate. They saw someone powerful expose themselves, to just take it and they unloaded their projections and their garbage onto you and maybe there's like 10% there for you, but the rest of it. Mm-hmm. And I just had to learn that.
Plus social media. I've been a very public social media figure for a long time ' cause extroversion and I process a lot of stuff and I share a lot of wisdom and I used to share much more openly on social media and I would share stuff that I was in process of and I quickly learned to stop doing that.
Yeah.
I will share after I am in a good place about something or if I have a very specific ask.
But otherwise, the unfettered masses. Will just irresponsibly crowd into my vulnerable space and make a mess.
Yeah. Well said. I was gonna make a joke earlier about your experience with all the therapists and go, and how did that make you feel?
I, it made me feel bad. It made me feel very bad. I felt very bad. Yeah.
it's, it's one of those things where it's like you, it is a skill, isn't it? To have somebody to learn, to have somebody come and tell you. Not only like, think people like myself and I, I can hear that you're in this category too. We actually welcome the constructive criticism in
Mm-hmm.
right? We, we
Yeah.
constantly improve and whatnot, but it's radical when somebody comes and says, you're good. And just 'cause someone said, that doesn't make it so,
Mm-hmm.
of the seasons of my life I find myself in now. Learning to trust, like, no, actually what I've done many times in my life, but I'm in a season right now. What I've done is right for me. And
Mm-hmm.
have to understand that, and you don't
Mm-hmm.
on that.
And you don't have to get it. And you don't even have to have asked more perspectives other than the one that you're viewing this through. I know,
Mm-hmm.
enough. And I don't know if we can get there by ourselves sometimes. I think that that radical turn from, I love constructive criticism.
And so maybe then the other side of that is that we're too willing to let too many people in to criticize us. That, that turn to, I have an inner knowing. I, I know and I'm okay.
Mm-hmm.
human being, having a human experience like everyone else. But I'm fundamentally okay. I think that's just as radical sometimes as having somebody also offer you of perspective when, when you're in the dark as well.
I was just, I totally agree. And I'm, there, and, and there's part of me that, can cringe when I say something that doesn't fit the mold of how we're supposed to be self-deprecating or humble. I was just with some, mutual friends recently, and they were all talking about, well, I'm always trying, I, you know, I just need to do better about something.
And I was like, nah, I'm good. Like, I don't, I don't, and I recognize that it's funny, but it's also my truth, like.
Yeah. Yeah.
I am always doing the best that I can at this point in my life. And my best isn't the same as the amount of effort that I used to do on different, like everything gets rebalanced and reorganized.
But I live a very thought filled, well considered life, and I'm present for it. And I exert care in ways that I think make me happy and make other people happy. And I'm not perfect and I'm never gonna be, and everyone's not gonna be happy with my choices. That's never gonna happen. And I'm good with that at this point in my life.
I'm like, that's okay. As long as I'm good with it, it's okay that they're not all good with it. And I don't need to be any better.
Right.
I'm just gonna keep, like I'm working on learning Spanish. Like there's things that I would like to do more and there's times when I'm mis considering people when I could have, but there's lots of times when I don't, there's
yeah.
I, yeah, I, I just, I hear that and I just wanted to jump on.
Mm-hmm.
me take you to the next question.
Yeah.
What do you wish more leaders felt permission to say out loud?
I was gonna say there's a certain element of me that wants to say, you know, up,
Yeah.
f off. God, so often, we wanna make sure that we don't offend anybody. And, and I
Mm
leaders, myself included, we actually truly don't want to, we don't want
mm.
you know, I, I really do want people to feel respected in my presence
Mm-hmm.
I wish that we all had more of the opportunity to say backup. Get outta here.
Mm-hmm.
up. I think noise is probably the worst component, right now of trying to lead anything in today's
Mm.
Everybody's now a newscaster. Everybody's now an opinion artist. Everybody's got something to say about everything.
Right? And, there's a lot of, I always used to joke, but, but it's true. There's a lot of self-taught armchair lawyers and business people and economists and, and all of that.
Armchair economics,
yeah,
yeah.
shut up. do me. back up and and, quit
yeah.
But even as I say that to you, I recognize the inherent need and responsibility I have to simply shut them out. So maybe it's not so much, the thing to say, and maybe the thing that we, we need more permission to say more often is, help me, you
Mm. Yeah.
because it really isn't about getting all of those people to be quiet, is it? It's more about help me come back to myself, come back to my own knowing, come back to my own sense of help me get quiet. help me
Mm-hmm.
Um, if you're a CEO right now and you're listening to this, if you're there, you clearly nobody can fake their way into that job.
Mm-hmm.
if you're there, you have your shit together, you know what to do. You just need more space and somebody to help make some room around you and, and that somebody is also you.
Nobody's coming to rescue you, so to speak, but to get some help. To, return to what you know how to do.
Hmm. Absolutely. It, this was making me think of, I have these quotes or these essays that become the touch points upon which I build my life's foundation. And one of them, when you were saying that and you said, help me, but it's not like, Hey, a bunch of people come in and do stuff.
It's help me stay with myself. There's an essay, by Howard Thurman. Uh, it's called For The Inward Journey and the, refrain that gets repeated a lot is "keep fresh before me the moments of my high resolve"
Mm.
and it talks about, well, I'm just gonna, read it because it's been really meaningful to me over the years, um, "despite the dullness and bareness of the days that pass.
If I search with due diligence, I can always find a deposit left by some former radiance. But I had forgotten. At the time, it was full orbed, glorious and resplendent. I was sure that I would never forget. In the moment of its fullness I was sure it would illumine my path for all the rest of my journey. I had forgotten how easy it is to forget.
There was no intent to betray what seemed so sure at the time. My response was whole, clean, authentic, but little by little there crept into my life, the dust and grit of the journey. Details, lower level demands, all kinds of cross currents. Nothing momentous, nothing overwhelming, nothing flagrant, just wear and tear.
If there'd been some direct challenge, a clear cut issue, I would've fought it to the end and beyond. And the quietness of this place surrounded by the all pervading presence of God, my heart whispers keep fresh before me the moments of my high resolve. That in Fairweather or in foul, in good times, or in tempest. In the days when the darkness and the foe are nameless or familiar, I may not forget that to which my life is committed. Keep fresh before me, the moments of my high resolve."
That's it.
I gotta ask you one last question before we go. That was a good place to end, but we're not quite there yet. Before we get to the last question , a lot of the people who come on the show, folks who listen, might in some way wanna get in touch with you
Yeah.
maybe for mentorship or to just give you feedback on what your episode meant to them.
Is there a place or a way that they could do that, that would work for you?
Yeah. My website is megangluth.com I think the spelling is probably in your show notes. Um,
It will be, yeah.
it's a great way for people to reach out to me. I always tell people don't send me a private message in LinkedIn 'cause I think I get like 10,000 a day and I'll never read it even though I want to. But please reach out on my website and I love connecting with people, like real people, uh,
Hmm.
the best way to do it.
Mm-hmm.
Okay, great. Thank you for the last question. Let's open up the time machine. So if you, you know the time machine is here, the door is open, and you can go back to a previous time place in your life, what would you say to an earlier version of yourself?
This actually feels emotional to me because I, I look at all these moments where I just had no idea what was coming as a result of what I was deciding. In those moments. I would tell her, be strong, remember who you are, and you have everything within you to do what's coming next. And that's it. And I would just constantly remind her of that. No matter what. No matter what, because it's been true.
Hmm
that you asked that with the benefit of hindsight, right? what would I tell myself now? I'm like, oh shit, I don't know. You know? But, but I do because
mm-hmm.
because it's always been, hang on, like, you, you have everything you need and all will be well, yeah.
Wow. Thank you for coming and sharing your immense wisdom with us. I know there's going to be a lot here that people feel validated by and inspired by, so thanks for being on the show.
Thanks for having me. This was cool.
Thanks for everyone for listening to Lonely At the Top. If today's conversation resonated, I hope you'll give yourself even just a moment to pause and reflect on what you might be carrying. You don't have to hold all this alone. If you could use support in taking some of this burden off your shoulders, having a place to express it, getting some deep insight and spiritual help, then you can reach out to me@rachelalexandria.com. If you know another leader who needs to hear this show, please send it their way, because, yeah, it's lonely at the top, but it doesn't have to stay that way.