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The Best Ever Podcast with Scott Eblin is your insider’s guide to what it takes to lead at the highest level at work, at home, and in your community. Each week, Scott sits down with remarkable leaders for real, revealing conversations about the mindset shifts, self-management habits, and everyday routines that fuel extraordinary leadership impact. Drawing on his 25 years of experience as a top executive coach, Scott brings a coach’s lens to every episode to help you bridge the gap between intention and action.
Scott - 00:00:10:
Welcome to Best Ever, the show where we explore how effective self-management creates the foundation for positive leadership outcomes. I'm Scott Eblin, and in every episode, I sit down with notable leaders to uncover the routines, mindset shifts, and strategies that have helped them lead at the highest level, and the difference that's made for their organizations, families, and communities. Today, I'm joined by Maggie Kane, the founder and executive director of A Place at the Table, Raleigh, North Carolina's first Pay What You Can Nonprofit Cafe. After graduating from North Carolina State University, Maggie immersed herself in community work and built strong friendships with people experiencing homelessness. That led her to a powerful vision, creating a space where everyone, regardless of background, could gather around the Table and share a dignified meal. Since opening its doors in 2018, A Place at the Table has served thousands, offering not just food, but connection, community, and consistency of experience. Maggie, I am so glad to have you with us. Thanks for joining me on Best Ever.
Maggie - 00:01:15:
Thanks for having me. You’re awesome
Scott - 00:01:16:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, am I? Well, thanks.
Maggie - 00:01:19:
I already know. I already know.
Scott - 00:01:20:
Oh, there you go. Okay. I love that energy. Thank you. So here's the scenario, and this is actually a true story. I walk into your restaurant yesterday for lunch. And a lovely part of Raleigh, downtown Raleigh. And I want you to answer the question about my experience there because I know you're going to know the answer. What's the first thing that happens when I walk through the front door of A Place at the Table?
Maggie - 00:01:48:
Yes, someone greeted you and welcomed you and said, we're so glad to see you. And they may have hugged you, but... Maybe not.
Scott - 00:01:57:
I didn't get a hug. I didn't get a hug. So next time, maybe.
Maggie - 00:02:02:
Right. We always yeah yeah we we um i always tell folks if you're not a hugger, um, beware.
Scott - 00:02:08:
Yeah, yeah. I could see. We'll get into that, the hugging aspect.
Maggie - 00:02:11:
Someone greeted you when you walked in?
Scott - 00:02:13:
Yeah. Yeah, totally. Totally. And then they had a question for me.
Maggie - 00:02:18:
Have you been here before?
Scott - 00:02:19:
Exactly. Have y'all been here before? And my answer was no. And then they... What? Explain to me how it works.
Maggie - 00:02:26:
Yeah.
Scott - 00:02:26:
So let's, let's pretend you're the greeter. Explain to me how, explain to me how the restaurant works.
Maggie - 00:02:32:
Yeah, I love it. Also, thanks so much for making time to come in. I really wanted to be there, but we had a food trick event. And so, yeah, it was really, really great. So, hated I missed you, but thanks for making time. And also can't wait to hear what you ate. So, I'll tell you the whole process. So yeah, so if you have not been to A Place at the Table before, we are a Pay What You Can restaurant. All are welcome here at A Place at the Table. You'll see menu boards at the front with lots of suggested prices. So people can choose to pay the suggested price. They can pay more and pay it forward. They can pay less. If they can't pay less, they can also volunteer with us. We also feed families for free once a week that want to come in and eat a meal with their family in dignity. Our mission is community and good food for all, regardless of means. And so we always say that... We're building community and using good food as a tool towards building that community. And so, yes, we're fighting food insecurity and feeding a lot of people, but we're really fighting community insecurity. So they probably did not say that at the door, but I think that's on our script. So we just we want to give all the information possible if folks want to share that information. But we at least want you to know that you're welcome and that it is a Pay What You Can restaurant. And we are so glad you're here.
Scott - 00:03:57:
All right. I love it. So I said in the intro that you opened your doors at A Place at the Table in 2018. There's actually been a lot of press on you and the restaurant over the years, so it's pretty easy to find information about you online. Talk a little bit, if you would, about... So you're a student at NC State. What did you major in at State?
Maggie - 00:04:20:
Ooh, the opposite of what I'm doing now. I was International Relations, Italian, and business. So I thought back in 2012, 2013, I am going to go move abroad. I'm actually originally from Raleigh, North Carolina. So I thought, it's time to go. I'm going to move away. I spoke Italian and wanted to go potentially teach English or work for a NGO somewhere. Or even I was looking at jobs working with an embassy. And so just different possibilities, but really fell in love with this work here and knew this is where I needed to stay.
Scott - 00:04:58:
Yeah. So did you get exposed to the nonprofit sector while you're in school? Or how did I'm just trying to what I want to get to is where did this idea come from? But kind of want to kind of let that percolate a little bit as we talk through it.
Maggie - 00:05:12:
Yeah, definitely. Thanks for asking. So I'm in college at NC State. I loved NC State. I feel so lucky to have gone to State, met great people, met just a great community. And while I was at State, I was a part of a campus ministry and a part of a service fraternity. So I got to see a lot of different things that were happening in this community. I got to volunteer at places. I got to hear speakers come at events that we had. And so I heard a speaker come and talk about a day shelter that he was opening. And a day shelter, for all who do not know, is a shelter that folks experiencing homelessness or extreme poverty can go and be in the day. There's not a lot of places for people in the day. There's night shelters where people can sleep. Not enough, but there are night shelters where people can sleep. But in the day, to get out of the heat, I mean, today it's 80 degrees already and it's not even 11 o'clock. So to go get some water, get out of the heat, do laundry, this was a day shelter for folks. And so I immediately just felt like I wanted to get involved and hear more. So I started volunteering at this day shelter and started to get to know so many folks who were coming in every day. They became my friends. I got to know their stories. They got to know mine. When I graduated college and I was looking at all these job options, the day of graduation, about 10 folks from that day shelter that I had met over the past year while volunteering came to my college graduation. They came, they cheered me on, they celebrated me, they said, we're so excited for you, Maggie, and all that's to come. And I think really in that moment, I think life gives us moments that can turn us for a loop and like get us thinking about a lot of other things. And in that moment, I thought like, this is the work I want to do right now. So I built my own job at this organization. They really couldn't afford any help, but I was like, yeah, I'll work other jobs and I'll work here. I just want to be here. I want to be at this space. And so-
Scott - 00:07:09:
This is the day shelter?
Maggie - 00:07:10:
The day shelter, exactly. And so worked there for about four years and two years in, I was very fortunate to spend a lot of time with folks experiencing homelessness and extreme poverty with them every day. But I, for me, getting to know people is done through food. It's done through drinks. It's done through coffee. That's the tool that we all, I really believe we all have in common. We all have to eat. We all love to eat. It's a way that builds relationships and community. So I would go and eat with folks who were experiencing, homelessness or extreme poverty and that were coming into the shelter. And so eating with them meant we ate at the soup kitchen a lot. And so in Raleigh, we have a fantastic soup kitchen. It feeds, it feeds 300 people every Monday through Friday. And so we would go to the soup kitchen, but frankly, I found that the soup kitchen, while it's amazing, it feeds a lot of people. We, they are feeding so many people. We have, you don't have, you don't have a lot of time to spend with people. So you'd get in, you'd have to eat quickly. So someone else can come in and eat. So I started taking folks out for meals, whether it was their birthday anniversary, something, um, started taking folks out for meals and found that we ended up at, um, buffet restaurants. Um, so, so we ended up at Golden Corral. We ended up at W Cafeteria, if anyone's O.G. Raleigh, uh, Durham area. Um, and, and while those restaurants are fantastic, I, I, my privilege from childhood, um, where I had all the food I ever needed, um, was that folks are, are hungry. So they want to go to a buffet restaurant because they want to eat a lot of food. They're really hungry. They slept outside the night before they slept in a shelter and didn't, um, have access to multiple meals. And my friend John changed my life forever where we were sitting at Golden Corral. And he told me, I said, John, is that why we come? Are you hungry? And he and he had only been on the streets for three months. And he said, no, Maggie, I have picked this place now because of two reasons. First, I have choice. He said, people make every choice for me from what I eat to where I sleep. Here I get to choose what I want to eat. And the second reason is because I'm seen here. He said, people treat me as invisible all the time. I am ignored these past three months. And he said, here, someone greets me. They acknowledge me. They come around and see if I need a refill. They see me as a human. And so that was the moment where I said, okay, we need to create a place where people have choice. People feel seen. And really, that means that the whole community comes together around this idea.
Scott - 00:09:40:
Wow, that's amazing. What a, just a pivotal moment in your life.
Maggie - 00:09:45:
Truly. Oh my gosh.
Scott - 00:09:46:
The meal with John at Golden Corral. Yeah. Because I think, you know, it's interesting that we all do this. You made some assumptions about why you'd want to eat there. Right. But.
Maggie - 00:09:56:
Yeah.
Scott - 00:09:56:
And, you know, maybe you're in the ballpark, but the real reasons were not what you thought, right?
Maggie - 00:10:01:
No.
Scott - 00:10:01:
You know, it's because we just, I want to feel seen. I want choice. Yeah. And so- I don't know you other than the last 10 minutes that we've been talking. As far as I know, though, you don't have any background in the restaurant industry. The restaurant industry is a notably difficult industry to succeed in. And so you're a few years out of NC State at this point with the meal with John. You're working at the soup kitchen or the day center. And you decide you're going to open a restaurant. How do you, what's the next step? How do you do that at, that point in your life?
Maggie - 00:10:38:
We did it overnight.
Scott - 00:10:39:
Yeah, yeah.
Maggie - 00:10:40:
Um, people, people, it's so funny because, um, thank you for acknowledging that I have so much respect for restaurant owners. It is the hardest industry and then nonprofit, you know, nonprofit world is hard in the hardest industry too. So you put the two together. Woo. Um, but I, and I always tell people that like, like I had a good friend that said to me, well, and they owned a restaurant. They said nonprofits are, are restaurants are nonprofits anyway. Right. So like, like, you know, you don't get into the restaurant industry to make a lot of money. Um, you get in it cause you care about people. You care about hospitality. Um, and so, so I, um, High school, college, waited tables, hosted, served, bartended. So knew the restaurant industry like that, but didn't have any, you know, direct ownership of a restaurant or direct management experience in a restaurant. So I certainly had a lot to learn. I am a firm believer that you never reinvent the wheel. So I started researching. I found, started researching on, truly, this was back in 2014, on how to bring people together, what community models already exist. I researched everything from faith communities, what are they doing, to nonprofits, what are they doing, to restaurants, found the Pay What You Can system, found that it existed across the country through the One World Everybody Eats Foundation. And said, if they, you know, if this exists, then we could certainly do one in Raleigh. The closest one, good friends and mentors, lifelong friends, at Farm Cafe in Boone, North Carolina, Feed All Regardless of Means is what it stands for. They've been open for about, I think now it's 11 or 12 years as a Pay What You Can restaurant in downtown Boone, North Carolina. And so I went to visit in 2014. I brought up five or six different people and at different times and said, what do you think? Should we do this? Should we not do this? And no one said no. Everyone said, absolutely. This sounds fantastic. Let's do it. I look back and I'm like, why did they say yes? Did they actually, just want to see like, oh yeah, that'll be fun. Let's see if it works. Or did they really think that this could work? And so, but no one said no. Everyone was like, cool, that sounds awesome. And so started working on this, bringing people up beginning 2014, mid-2014. We, I also, at that time, back to your original point, is did not know what we were doing. Didn't, certainly didn't know how to open a restaurant. Did not know how to start a nonprofit. Did not know, you know, I didn't know how to read a P&L. So like, if I'm going to start something, I got to know how to do that. So I'm, you know, the second thing is I'm a firm believer in like, you hire people that are better than you and you bring the community along. Um, so we didn't have any money to hire people, but we found people in this community, in this Raleigh community that had those expertise that I did not have. Um, so we found an accountant who could help us build our original budget. We found a, a restaurateur that had opened many restaurants before. We found a lawyer who could read legal documents and help us apply for nonprofit status. We found volunteers who just wanted to be like boots on the ground, help in this community. Um, we found. People that had connections in Raleigh that could connect us to other people. And so we just started making connections with different people. We started meeting this group of all these different folks with expertise. We met weekly. We turned into the board of directors. We applied for nonprofit status. At this time, we had no employees at Table. It was all volunteers. So I actually ended up this restaurateur who was helping us on the board. I tagged along in the restaurant he was opening. So I was able to learn some of those things and started working there on their team. I had a bartending job as well. So working there and then I could pay bills, but also learn some things. And so then we just slowly but surely started learning, building, telling the community about what we were doing. And so about a year after that, we realized, okay, this is not as easy as we thought it was going to be. And so at that time we did, we got on social media. We told the story even more. We then realized, okay, we can have some information sessions. So we can tell folks about what we're doing, get more people to come and support us. And then we realized, okay, why don't we start popping our concept up? Why don't we pop the concept up and tell folks, come experience the Pay What You Can model. And let's really see if this community wants it. We had a community advisory board at the time. This advisory board consisted of people who were experiencing poverty or had lived experiences and who worked with people experiencing poverty. So we went to a different nonprofit every month in the Research Triangle, in the Raleigh region, and told folks about what we were doing. And then we were also on social media. We were also popping up information sessions. So then we invited all of those folks we were meeting to these pop-up Pay What You Can restaurant days. So every month, every second Saturday, we did a Pay What You Can second Saturday brunch. And so the first one had five people. A year later, this was in 2017, in February, we had 400 people. So at that point, we were like, okay, people really want this. They really believe in this. People clearly see value in this. And so at that time, we're now starting to get to a lot of folks in this community. We are working with a real estate agent to hopefully find us a location. And fast forward six months, we found a location. And then we called on all those folks that had supported us since the beginning. And we opened our doors in January of 2018.
Scott - 00:16:29:
That's amazing. And so, like I said a little while ago, it's in this really lovely part of downtown Raleigh, really just around the corner from a tree-lined park. And, you know, it's a beautiful neighborhood. Is that the same location you opened in back in 2018?
Maggie - 00:16:46:
Yeah, great question. Yes. We started, though, with a, well, I'll back up to say, we knew we had to be in a space that welcomed everyone. So we needed to be in a space where people lived, worked, played downtown, or like played in that area. And people sought social services and stayed in shelters and had affordable housing and that we were right off a bus line and a train line. So we knew we needed to be in the space that had lots of communities all coming together. So we knew that downtown Raleigh for us was it. So. We found York Properties, fantastic real estate agent here on the Triangle, who finally found us this space in downtown Raleigh. And we started as 1,600 square feet. We were small. We had, we didn't have, when you saw yesterday, we did not have a commercial kitchen. We had a prep kitchen. So we catered in pastries. We had pre-sliced turkey that was already prepped and ready. So we could not, as a restaurant, you have to have a commercial kitchen that's health inspected to be able to serve a lot of the food that you serve. So we weren't able to do that with 1,500 square feet. We didn't have a kitchen. And so we started very small. We probably saw 100 people a day that first year. And then in 2020, which I can get into if we want, the person next door moved out and asked if we, you know, if she wanted to go to, if she wanted us to go to the landlord and say, hey, I think A Place at the Table would want this space. So it worked out perfectly because we took over the space, pushed the wall down and combined the spaces. And now we have about 3,800 square feet. We were able to build a perfect kitchen.
Scott - 00:18:17:
It's really large.
Maggie - 00:18:19:
It's huge. Yeah.
Scott - 00:18:20:
Yeah, it really totally is. So- I'm kind of jumping around on my conversation plan here.
Maggie - 00:18:27:
Bring it on.
Scott - 00:18:28:
Yeah, sure. Absolutely. I want to circle back a little bit to how you put this. Large team of interested people together, but we'll come back to that. But since you mentioned 2020, for people that remember 2020 was the beginning of the pandemic. And, um, You know, 2018, it's now 2025 as we have this conversation. You've been open for seven years, including during the pandemic. Lots of restaurants failed during the pandemic for obvious reasons. Since the pandemic, lots of restaurants struggle with staffing issues. They struggle with supply issues. Rising prices. I mean- I don't know if maybe you know, I don't know, but I'm going to guess the average length of the restaurant staying open is a lot less than seven years. Is that, do you know if I'm right about that?
Maggie - 00:19:19:
Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Well, they say 75% of restaurants fail in the first year.
Scott - 00:19:24:
Yeah, there you go.
Maggie - 00:19:25:
That is really sad.
Scott - 00:19:27:
Yeah, it is.
Maggie - 00:19:28:
And I understand it and I understand how it can happen.
Scott - 00:19:31:
How have you done it? Have you stayed open for seven years?
Maggie - 00:19:34:
Of goodness by like the grace of whatever you believe your God is. So, no, this community truly, I, you know, this community has kept us open. We always say that we are Raleigh's Community Café. So, so whoever you, you can be involved how you want, whether you dine here, donate volunteer, you get to take part in making this place happen. And so, so it's, I mean, truly it's people showing up to eat here. It's, it's people donating online. It's people volunteering and, and helping us with a lot of our operations that we don't necessarily like dishwashing is a volunteer position. We don't have to pay someone to do dishes, but I'll also say we're very fortunate because we are a nonprofit restaurant. So we get to, we get to fundraise. So a large portion of our whole budget is, is fundraised. So yes, we certainly generate revenue, but we only generate about 40% of our, of our budget in restaurant revenue. The rest is fundraised.
Scott - 00:20:31:
Well, let's talk about that, the fundraising a little bit. There's a lot of pushback these days on the moment when the iPad is turned to you at the restaurant and you, you know, choose your tip in front of the person who's checking you out. It's kind of awkward. Yesterday, so I, you know, I met my producer, CeCe, at the restaurant and we had lunch together and, you know, lunch was on me. And so, you know, pay the fee. And then the tip comes up. It's pretty cool because the tip options are 25%, 50%, or 100%, right?
Maggie - 00:21:11:
We just changed that, so thank you for...
Scott - 00:21:13:
Yeah. So how... I... When did you change that and talk a little bit about the thought process? I thought it was very cool. I thought it was like entirely appropriate.
Maggie - 00:21:22:
Thanks for saying that.
Scott - 00:21:23:
Given what you're doing. But talk a little bit about the decision to... Instead of 15, 20, 25%, which you see in a regular restaurant.
Maggie - 00:21:33:
Totally. Thanks for saying that. Yeah. I we're still playing around with it. Like maybe we need to go back. I don't know. But I think I will say so that the person who checked you out should have also said.
Scott - 00:21:45:
Thank you for your generosity is what you said.
Maggie - 00:21:47:
Okay, great. Our team is the best around. But when, I work the register, what I say is I turn the screen around or whatever it is, and I say, we don't take tips. All tips are donations, and they go right back into paying it forward for someone else. And so we try to say that to let people know that our staff, they make a living wage. We don't take tips. So the tip portion is a donation. We changed it because, um, we like, cause there isn't any pressure. Like we want you. And I also always add in, there's no pressure here. Um, we want to add in that like, there really isn't pressure. You don't have to, but it is an extra donation. Um, if you want to support the restaurant, we also changed it because, and we increased our prices too, because it is just getting harder and harder to generate revenue. Um, I think, I don't know how restaurants are doing it right now. I, um, if we didn't have fundraising, we would not, there's no way we would support what we're doing. So we change it so that in hopes that like, Hey, this is a way people can also get involved and can also take part. Um, you're going to tip anyway, anywhere you go. So, so here you may as well tip, but it's a, it makes you feel good while doing it. Cause it's a donation to, to what we're doing at Table. Um, and so, yeah, I don't, I'm glad you brought this up. Cause I forgot that we changed that a month ago. So I have been noticing that our tip line is getting, is like bigger than it used to be. So I like totally forgot that until just now. So I'm glad to hear that you didn't feel like, like, Oh my gosh, I've got to give a hundred percent. And I feel this pressure.
Scott - 00:23:25:
No, I love it that you make the ask. I mean, that's, that's, that's, I think, like I said, I thought it was entirely appropriate given. So, I always say that, but the business model, I don't know if that's the right term for this or not, but it's a business model, right? So you mentioned your volunteers. One of the things I wanted to talk about, if you look to your right, when you walk in the front door, there's a volunteer check-in station. Yeah. You've got how many volunteers work in the restaurant on an average day?
Maggie - 00:23:56:
We have anywhere from 50 to 150 volunteers a day.
Scott - 00:24:00:
A day. Wow.
Maggie - 00:24:01:
So it's a huge, you know, huge. Gap there, but it really just depends. We have three ways to volunteer and no way is better than the other. And everyone's doing the same thing, but you can show up and volunteer at any hour in the day and volunteer for an hour. And then you can get a meal or you don't have to, but you're, you're able to get a meal. Of course, you can't sign up online. We have three hour shifts online. So if you want to sign up ahead of time, if you're a planner and like to sign up, you can sign up online. You can also, you can also get offered to get a meal if you'd like. And then three, you can have a weekly shift with us. So we've got a hundred people that have a weekly shift with us. And that is just scheduled people that know what they're doing. So they can help train. They can help. They know exactly what to do in the dishroom. So we don't have to train them. And so they also get the option of a meal as well. So everyone, it's just three different ways to volunteer. But, anywhere from 50 to 150 a day, we have 50 to 125 people who are volunteering for their meal every day. So a lot of folks that just come in in an hour, they come in at any hour in the day and volunteer. And then they immediately get a meal before or after. So, so, but yeah, I mean, there's a lot of volunteers throughout here. When we first opened, we had six paid staff and a lot of volunteers and we were open six days a week, eight hour days. And so now we realize that as we've gotten bigger, we've built a commercial kitchen. We've done a lot more. We've tried to have more consistency. We now have 26 staff and a lot of volunteers. So it just, we've just grown over the years, but still rely heavily on volunteers and volunteers do everything from bussing tables, running food, greeting, doing dishes. We always say that if you've ever wanted to work in a restaurant, this is your time. This is your time. And if you ever have worked in a restaurant, this is also your time because we're not going to yell at you for breaking a dish or cleaning something wrong, you know? So, and it's, it's also a great way to meet people. It's also a great way to get involved in the community. We've seen some seriously, seriously cool connections made with volunteers at Table.
Scott - 00:26:20:
One of the things I talked about in introducing you, in addition to... Dignity and community, I talked about consistency of experience, right? It feels... Like, really nice restaurant, you know, a really nice place to go for lunch or breakfast. And, you know, you're, you would never know it's primarily staffed by volunteers. So how do you develop that level of consistent experience when, you've got 150 volunteers a day cycling through on one to three hour, you know, shifts, basically. How do you get that consistency? Because I think a lot of people listening to this struggle with that with their full-time staff, right? And so how do you do this with a part-time staff of volunteers?
Maggie - 00:27:07:
Yeah. Amazing. Amazing question. I guess I'll, let me touch on your first statement first is, um, the idea that it's like the consistency is great and that, that it feels like a, a, a good place to be. Um, we knew that the food, the quality, the experience had to be good because all people, no matter who you are, will come out once for a good cause, but they'll come at again. If all of that is consistent and a good experience and you left there feeling good. Um, we also, we also knew very early in, um, we knew that we needed to have real plates. We needed to have real silverware. We needed to have real cloth napkins because sure, we could have cut some of those costs. I mean, laundry is one of our biggest, big, excuse me, biggest expenses. Um, and so we could have cut those things. Sure. But we knew that we needed to have those things because we wanted everyone to really feel like it was, it was there- Maybe it's their home. Maybe it's their friend's home. They really feel welcome. Um, so we wanted to be hospitable where people really felt like they could rest for a minute and eat a good meal in going back to your, the, what you said about dignity, you know, your point on how do you keep up with the consistency and how do you keep up with that experience every time? Um, you hire good people. So I think that has been a big thing is, is, and we, we built our staff. So I said, we started with six people. Now we have 26. So we built our team and, and we train them to, to lead people well and to work one-on-one alongside volunteers. Um, and so we have the right people in different, in different places. We have a cafe manager. We have, um, someone on the floor who is working with volunteers one-on-one training them, um, to then train other people. We have, um, you know, a barista who knows how to do coffee. We have, we have chefs, we have, we have a chef, we have line cooks. We have a lot of different people in these roles, um, that, that then, you know, are able to execute everything that we do here. Um, and so we've got, it used to be that. We had volunteers in the early days. We had volunteers leading other volunteers and showing them what to do. And then we realized that we were lacking in consistency. We were lacking in dignity. So we hired folks that now are on the floor full time, leading folks, showing them how to do dishes, showing them how to bus tables, chatting with them, greeting, getting to know their name. And then we also hired three years ago, we hired a community and de-escalation specialist. So her main job is to be on the floor, getting to know folks and building relationships. And now-
Scott - 00:29:45:
So, do you use your job title again, please? Was what?
Maggie - 00:29:47:
Well, it was community and de-escalation specialist. Now she's community manager, but she is just literally the social worker on the floor that is getting to know folks and knowing their story, getting them into our volunteer system or our family system, getting them the resources they need. Like, hey, okay, so you're looking for this. Like, let me connect you to this nonprofit partner. And so they're able to build relationships, know people. And then if something happens in the dishroom, something happens outside, if there's a volunteer issue, she is then able to go talk to them, de-escalate a situation that could have arisen. And again, just make those relationships even better.
Scott - 00:30:31:
I love it. I want to shift a little bit to you. We've been talking a lot about the... About the restaurant. I want to talk about you a little bit. How would you describe it? How would you describe your leadership style or what do other people tell you about your leadership style?
Maggie - 00:30:47:
Oh yeah, for sure. I love that. So I am, well, I guess, I mean, I'm obviously passionate. So that's as a leader in this community, I have a lot of passion and I love what I do. I'm a very empathetic leader. I am not a micromanager whatsoever. So I am very much a, you hire, you hire the best people and you let them do their thing. You let them fly. And I'm here if you need it. So I'm not a micromanager. I, I, I am a vision, larger picture leader. I'm not so great at the small details. And again, that's why you, we have a, we have an admin coordinator. We have a partnership director. So we have folks that are specializing in all these different things. And, and so, and, and I am just keeping the vision going and making sure that we are continuing to grow, whatever that looks like. Um, so I think, I think that I, um, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm as hands-on as they want me to be, but I'm also way willing to like take a seat and be like, y'all know better than I do.
Scott - 00:31:54:
What do you think the highest and best use of your time is? Your time and attention and effort?
Maggie - 00:31:59:
Great question. So my, I have a coach, I'm a big believer in, in having coaches. Um, so I have a coach and she's like literally the best. Um, so, so I was, um, I'm going to call myself out here. So we had a food truck event, which is again, why I didn't see you yesterday. And I'm on the food truck taking orders yesterday. And, and at this big event, she comes, I didn't know she was coming. She comes up and she looks straight at me and she goes, what are you doing here? Why are you taking orders? And so, so like best use of my time is, is not to take orders on a, on our food truck. Um, while I love it and I think it's fantastic and I'm, and, and, and, and of course I'm always willing to jump in when needed, but not, we have fantastic people. They don't need me doing it. And turns out I actually like messed up some orders and there were like five extra sandwiches at the end of the day because I'd put them in wrong. So, so she's so right in that. So best use of my time is out there both keeping the vision and mission going, but out there speaking about the mission and vision, telling the story. Bringing new people into the restaurant, being the advocate of advocate in the community for our community. And so, so, best use of my time is absolutely doing that. And of course, that comes with that comes with fundraising, that comes with that comes with board development, that comes with all of those not as fun things like.
Scott - 00:33:21:
Yeah.
Maggie - 00:33:22:
I'm just kidding. It's all done.
Scott - 00:33:24:
Yeah, yeah. So you talked about- the leadership aspect is passionate and empathetic and vision. I'm surprised you didn't use the word energetic because you clearly have a ton of energy, right?
Maggie - 00:33:39:
Yeah. It's so funny. People still to this day are like, Maggie, how do you still have this energy? And I, again, like powers that be gave me this energy and I am so grateful because it's, yeah. I mean, I've also had like five cups of coffee. So, I mean.
Scott - 00:33:55:
So let's get into not the coffee so much, but the premise of this podcast, Best Ever, is to share and talk about lessons learned at the intersection of... Self-management and positive leadership outcomes. There is no doubt whatsoever you've generated a lot of positive leadership outcomes. I'm... I'd love to hear, you've been at this, depending on how you do the math, since 2016 or so, right? I mean, you had a couple of years worth of... Experimentation until you got to 2018 and opened the restaurant. So almost 10 years you've been doing this. I like to think about routines in terms of physical, mental, relational, and spiritual. Are there... Any key routines in those domains that you find are really vital for you? Just bringing it the way you bring it. Yeah.
Maggie - 00:34:51:
Absolutely. Well, absolutely. 100%. I mean, I think first sleep so important. I, I sleep, I'm in bed by nine o'clock most nights, unless I have a concert tonight, I'm already dreading it because I'm like, Oh, I'll be late tonight. I'm a big believer in sleep. I think sleep is magic. And as a great reset, I wake up early. And I always start my day with some sort of devotion. I'm a person of faith. So it helps me in my life for that, especially, you know, what you just touched on this spiritual side. Um, and so that, that really starts my day. I am also this- I'm a big into physical health too. So, so, um, I'm a big runner, I'm a big weightlifter. So, so I always prioritize that as well before my day even starts. And also if I don't do it in the morning, then I'm not doing it at all.
Scott - 00:35:40:
Right.
Maggie - 00:35:41:
I, I next comes, I also like, it's not necessarily like setting an intention, but I am a big believer in- That it's going to be a good day and, and like, see how it plays out. So I try to state that like, Hey, today's gonna be a great day, Maggie, let's go, let's, let's get this. And then expect that like things are going to happen. Um, so I, I tend to not, um, you know, stress over what is going to, what is going to come in the day. Um, I also. So. I take, I'm a big believer in therapy and anxiety medicine. So anxiety medicine, Lexapro changed my life two years ago. And I will forever be grateful for that. And then I travel. I love to travel. I have good friends. I love to travel. I love to be outside. Our team added a sabbatical policy a couple years ago. I'm a big believer as well in taking breaks and like long consecutive breaks. So every year I try to do a two week break where I'm totally disconnected from Table.
Scott - 00:36:43:
That's awesome.
Maggie - 00:36:45:
So, and I think you've got to go longer than a couple of days because I do think that like you need, you take two or three days off and it's just, you're, you're still stuck in the, the, the stress and anxiety of the work that you're in. So sabbatical policy, I hiked, this was two years ago. I went six weeks and I hiked to the Camino in Spain and totally disconnected. So I'll continue to do things like that. But I do think like that next as a day-to-day stuff. Yes. But then really taking that bigger break if you're able to, some people aren't. So I recognize the privilege in that, but, um, the bigger break and, and, and having it reset all of it.
Scott - 00:37:23:
Talk about the Camino experience for folks that don't know what that is.
Maggie - 00:37:27:
Oh my gosh, have you done it, Scott?
Scott - 00:37:28:
I'm familiar with it now. I was just in Spain and heard a lot of people talking about it.
Maggie - 00:37:33:
Oh, you were? Oh, my gosh. Where were you in Spain?
Scott - 00:37:35:
A lot of Spain.
Maggie - 00:37:37:
Oh, all of them. Okay, cool.
Scott - 00:37:39:
Sevilla, Madrid, Barcelona, Bilbao. Yeah, just all over.
Maggie - 00:37:44:
I love Spain. Something else I'm doing for myself right now, I believe in having, like, people should have a hobby that takes them outside of, you know, what they're doing.
Scott - 00:37:54:
Before we go to the hobby, talk about that six-week experience.
Maggie - 00:37:58:
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, so there are several trails, and what the Camino really is is a pilgrimage. So it's a path to somewhere. And so I did this pilgrimage, in quotes, and there's lots of different routes and trails you can take. But I hiked from France, the border of France and Spain, all the way to the coast of Spain, and took 30 days and hiked across and stayed in hostiles, stayed with different people. What I love about it so much is it's super reflective of yourself, of your community, and then it builds community, too. I got to meet so many people from around the world there and literally woke up and got to walk and chat and walk and talk. And so I tie it a lot to what we do at Table in building community and building and kind of meeting people where they're at and being whoever you want to be. And so that's what we do at Table every day, and that's what I got to do on the Camino. So it was fantastic. I recommend it to anyone who's able to or any sort of trail or hike like that where you can just be in nature, if that's your jam, and reflect and, you know, dream, too. I get to dream what we wanted to see for Table, which is now why we have a food truck.
Scott - 00:39:18:
Yeah, very good. So how long did you do the six weeks?
Maggie - 00:39:22:
I did it, I did it, I did the six weeks two years ago. And then last year I did a trail, also super fortunate to go, I did a trail through Tuscany in Italy for two weeks.
Scott - 00:39:35:
The two years later after the six weeks, what impact has that still had on you two weeks later or two years later?
Maggie - 00:39:42:
Oh my gosh. Well, the initial impact is I had two friends who met on the Camino when I was there and they are getting married this week. So there's that. So I didn't meet my partner on the Camino, but she did. And so that, that impact for sure. Just the power of that. Right. Of connections and hospitality and community. But I mean, mindfulness for sure. I and again, like setting it goes back to that spiritual side for me. And also just that life is like it is okay to slow down. You know, I always say here at Table, we talk a lot about it and we're like we're like, look, we are doing something so cool and so powerful. But we're also not you know, none of it is emergent. Like we're not we're not like solving cancer overnight here. There are people that are doing that. And yes, they got to work around the clock, but we're not. And so so I think like like not, you know, not feeling like we have to every day rush to and in the grind culture. Right. Of like getting it all done and doing it all and being the best at everything. It's okay to take your time and to be reflective and put yourself first.
Scott - 00:40:48:
Yeah. I like to talk with my, you mentioned your coach. It's great that you have a coach. That's what I do for a living as well as executive coaching. And I like to talk with my clients about looking for things or routines that are relatively easy to do and likely to make a difference. And so like a six-week Camino definitely makes a difference, not necessarily easy to do. I mean, you know, so that's kind of out there on one end of the spectrum. On the other end of the spectrum is a daily devotion or your mindset of this is going to be a great day, right?
Maggie - 00:41:20:
Yeah.
Scott - 00:41:21:
And so that's relatively easy to do. Not completely easy, but relatively easy to do. And definitely for you for sure. Yeah, so talk a little bit about your daily routine on devotion and how you get yourself... How did you get the groove going on, this is going to be a great day? So those are the two things I'd love to hear a little bit about just on your daily routines of the devotion and the great day routine.
Maggie - 00:41:46:
I love that. I love that you say that to your to your coaches, too. So I just I mean, totally like I am such a creature of like resisting the grind culture. I very much want to wake up and immediately start working and immediately start knocking things off the to do list. And it just hit me one day that like there's literally always going to be a to do list and I'm never going to fully get through it. So, so, I have got to start my day with with the thought of like, it is going to be a good day. I've got I got to start my day like taking care of myself first, feeding my soul first, because it all comes back to soul. The reason I do this work is soul like and I don't want to lose that because of my to do list. And so I keep a devotion beside my bed and I I like, okay, I would say I just wake up and start doing it. I go get coffee, but I go get coffee first downstairs. It's preset. It's ready to go. And I come upstairs and I am, I take that 30 minutes, not even 15 minutes before opening my computer. And I, I read my dojo right now. It's Kate Valor. And and I read that and I sit back like. 15 minutes after that, I go, and I remind myself, I'm like, what, what would I like, what if I didn't do that? And I just immediately started emailing what I got one more email done. Great. Right. So, so I think, I think that that it is just, it's, it's given me a calmness to start the day versus immediately jumping in into the demands that all of us experience in all of our jobs. Um, the second thing is with that intention is I look, I don't even know. I just know that it has helped me over the years say today is going to be a great day. Cause it goes back to that intention again of the same thing with the devotion is like, if I, if I like breathe and state positive energy into the world, then, then I'm at least getting some of it back. Like in, in, I don't even know, like in, if I staining it, then manifesting or not, um, there, something good is coming my way that day. Um, and so, no, I don't think it's going to be like the best- You know, day I've ever experienced in my life. But I do think like, like stating it, it just at least reminds me that like, hey, like. I love my work. I love what I do every day. I feel so lucky. And there are also so many people that don't have this life. There are people like that are dying all over the world right now. And look, today we get to do really good work.
Scott - 00:44:17:
I love it. A couple of questions as we wrap up.
Maggie - 00:44:20:
Yeah.
Scott - 00:44:20:
Cut it back. To the restaurant for a little bit, but kind of connected to you. You've had such success with what you've built. Do you think it's replicable? Could what you're doing be done? Elsewhere in the way that you're doing it, you know, with the values that you have and the vision that you've had for this, that you've really manifested. Is this doable elsewhere?
Maggie - 00:44:46:
Great question. Thanks for asking. So I don't think so. I really believe that A Place at the Table works here. Is the Pay What You Can model replicable? Absolutely. Is a lot of the things we do, core values, different tools that we've used replicable? 100%. But is A Place at the Table going to go franchise or are we going to go open another one somewhere? Probably not. Because we really believe that this came out of this community. We spent four years building what we have here. And it is beautiful. And so to go do it somewhere else would feel like we could maybe do it. But would it last? Would it be authentic to that community? Every community is different. So what we say is, is let us help you. So I talked to a group in Indiana two days ago. There's a group in Greensboro, North Carolina. There's a group in Durham. There's a group in Wake Forest. There's a group in New York. So we talked to a lot of these groups that want to do this. We will help you. We'll give you all the tools that we started out with. But unfortunately, like we don't think it's like replicating A Place at the Table. We want to see, we want to make your process easier. So here's our budgets. Here is our, you know, here's what we, here's the person we use for branding. But, you know, we, we think we can help you and walk alongside you in it, but it's not A Place at the Table. It's whatever works for your community. These come out of community.
Scott - 00:46:05:
Yeah. I... I appreciate you sharing what you just shared because I'm not an expert, but I've worked with a lot of leaders for a long time. In lots of different fields and industries. And I would probably agree with you. What you are doing in Raleigh, and I would encourage everybody listening to this, if you're living in Raleigh, living in this area, or visiting Raleigh, go get a great meal at that A Place at the Table.
Maggie - 00:46:31:
Thank you.
Scott - 00:46:31:
Meet some great people. But I would say the way you're doing it there is not replicable. I would be inclined to agree with you. And I don't want to embarrass you, but I think my assessment of why it's not is because... People like you don't grow on trees. And so when you talk, well, I know I could have, but. I think you are probably the secret sauce in this because I'm so struck. The story you told, you know, when I asked you at the outset of our conversation about, you know, Tell me how this started. You're at NC State. You're not in the restaurant industry and blah, blah, blah. And what you talked about for probably 10 minutes... Was all the people you engaged in this. And you went out and found an expert on accounting. You went out and found an expert on this, on that, on the other thing, this other restaurateur, blah, blah, blah. I'm going to ask you to just kind of self-observe for a minute.
Maggie - 00:47:30:
Mm.
Scott - 00:47:30:
What do you think? You did back then that you still do today, obviously. That enrolls people in a vision like that. What are you doing that maybe is unique that others need to think about? That have also have a vision. But haven't executed the vision to the degree that you've executed yours.
Maggie - 00:47:52:
Yeah, that's so good. Thank you for that question. I've forgotten that question. And I love it. I think that. I always tell younger or any leader, not even younger leaders, any leader is ask for help. Don't be afraid to ask for help. If they say no, ask again later and keep asking. Like, what do you have to lose? You know, I think it's also like knowing that you are not like, we don't have to be good at everything. It is it is okay, to ask for help. It's okay, to to really hone in on what you're good at and then let other people come in and hone in on what they're good at and allow them to do it. And so I think entrepreneurs specifically not calling entrepreneurs out or anything, but I think a lot of us, I think it's human nature to want to be good at everything, to want to do it all. And so and I just God did not design us to be able to do it all. That's why there are so many different types of humans in this world. And so I think that, you know, we have to be okay, with knowing where our strengths are, letting other people help us and pull their strengths in, not being afraid to ask those people for help. And, and, you know. Letting them like walk in this journey with you. I think, I think I'm a big, I think the other thing that I have really realized over the years is that I'm a big community advocate. Like I'm a community fan. Community is my number one word. I speak about it all the time. Community, community, community, life is better than community. I think we think we have to do things alone. We don't. So life is better than community. It's way more fun in community. And so, so what makes a community lots of different people. So, um, I just, I think like really pulling the community in and realizing finding where people's strengths are, um, and where they can take part and asking them to take part in it, um, has been, has been something that has really made the A Place at the Table process come to life and work every single day. Um, and letting people, letting people. Do it and getting yourself out of the way, knowing when to get yourself out of the way. I'm also, I really believe like I, and I've always said this, that like, I am not good at a lot, um, but I am good at loving people. And I feel like that was a gift that I was given when I was born is like, I just want to love people and make them feel valued and make them feel heard and make them have a, make them feel like they have a place. Cause they do. Um, everyone has a place and everyone should feel heard and seen and loved and cared for. And so, so I think that if, if I can do that, help people figure out where their strengths are and then get out of the way, then, then it's probably the most beautiful thing we can do in this, in this world.
Scott - 00:50:30:
Okay. I thought I was done asking questions, but I've got at least two more.
Maggie - 00:50:35:
Oh, love it. Love it. Bring it on.
Scott - 00:50:37:
The first one is a follow-up to what you just said. I'm good at loving people. And you said a little bit about what it means to love people. Unpack that a little bit more.
Maggie - 00:50:47:
Yeah.
Scott - 00:50:47:
What are the four or five things that look like being good at loving people?
Maggie - 00:50:53:
Yeah, just I mean, as I said earlier, like like the empathy piece is just like walking with people, walking alongside them. I think, you know, I especially folks in our community and and how I got into this work is, you know, when I was working at the day shelter is I wasn't like there to like solve their problem. I wasn't trying to get them into housing or help them, you know, figure out where to go get clothes. I mean, sure, I was willing to do that, but I was more just like loving them and treating them as human and seeing who they were and seeing, you know, and hearing their hopes and their dreams and their past lives and their children's lives. And I think it's just seeing people. We all want to we all want to be seen. And I think I think once we're I think when we see each other, we realize that we're a lot more human and a lot more similar than we think. I think, you know, society, we all know this society tells us that there's like a us versus them mentality. And like, what if we just all saw each other as humans that are all just trying to do the next right thing and make it in this really scary, weird world? I think it's just the empathy. It's just seeing people for who they are and not judging.
Scott - 00:52:02:
I love it. So last question I always ask everybody who comes on the show. Just because I like to hear what people answer to this. What's in your ears lately? What are you listening to or paying attention to that is influencing you? And, whatever way it's influencing you.
Maggie - 00:52:20:
Oh, that's a great question. What's in my ear? So I just listened on the way over to work this morning. I listen to the day. I always listen to the daily in the morning. So the dailies. Do you listen to the daily?
Scott - 00:52:32:
I did. I listened to it a little while ago.
Maggie - 00:52:34:
Gavin Newsom's. So I'm trying to stay up with the current events going on and see where see where I can plug in because that is, I think, top of my mind right now. I just I just feel I'm feeling someone asked me earlier today. They said, how are you doing? And I said, like, I'm actually. Like, I'm doing, Table is doing well. I'm so grateful. And I'm so grateful we get to do this work. The world I'm very scared about. And it is weighing, I think, on all of us. And so I'm trying to stay right now. What I'm listening to, I'm trying to stay in tune with everything that's going on in the world. So I do the daily every day. I do Up First. I do, you know, a couple different other ones. But I'm trying to stay in tune.
Scott - 00:53:16:
How do you know how to calibrate that? When does enough become too much?
Maggie - 00:53:21:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Often. I don't, I keep going. I keep looking. I keep, I keep, so no, I'm not good at that. I can't even, I can't even give you a leadership answer in that. I don't, I mean, I think, I think when I am, I think a bedtime of 9 PM helps. Cause if not, I would keep going all night long and in the, in the loop. So I don't, I mean, I think I have really good friends that call me out on it and I've asked them to hold me accountable. So I have like, my twin sister will say, Maggie, I saw you repost that. I saw you repost that. What you doing? Come on. Yeah.
Scott - 00:53:56:
Yeah. Yeah. Right. I will say this, Maggie, that Cee Cee, my producer, who you know, always creates a really great show flow for me. And I have used the show flow less on this conversation probably than any other because you've just led me all over the place, which I really appreciate.
Maggie - 00:54:17:
I'm a little bit of a mess. And Nicole, our cafe manager is in the office right now, and I'm sure. Am I a mess, Nicole?
Scott - 00:54:24:
Yeah.
Maggie - 00:54:24:
She said no.
Scott - 00:54:27:
No, you're a very effective mess.
Maggie - 00:54:31:
Well, Nicole said multifaceted. So sure, I'll take that.
Scott - 00:54:34:
Yeah, yeah, take that. We're... I can't think of the phrase right now. We're all made up of lots of different things. Lots of different great qualities.
Maggie - 00:54:43:
Absolutely, 100%. But that's why we all have-
Scott - 00:54:45:
You contain multitudes. That's what I was trying to come up with.
Maggie - 00:54:48:
Oh, I don't know about that. Again, I'll go back to the first thing I said. You hire good people like Nicole, who's sitting in this office. To make sure that, you know, everything's taken care of. And amazing.
Scott - 00:54:58:
Awesome. Thank you. This has been an amazing conversation.
Maggie - 00:55:00:
Thank you so much. I hope that you'll come again so I can actually meet you.
Scott - 00:55:04:
Yeah, I absolutely will.
Maggie - 00:55:06:
I'll end the question for you. What did you eat?
Scott - 00:55:08:
Yeah. I had a really great bowl of white bean chicken chili. It was amazing.
Maggie - 00:55:14:
Oh, my gosh. Oh, I love that.
Scott - 00:55:16:
And I also had, they served that with a nice, really fresh, beautiful green salad with ranch dressing. All right, Maggie Kane, keep on keeping on, my friend. Thank you so much for this.
Maggie - 00:55:28:
We got this. We can do it.
Scott - 00:55:39:
Okay, wow. I got to take a breath out after my conversation with Maggie Kane. I said to CeCe before we started recording the Coachable Moment segment here that she is a force of nature, and I'm sure you felt that energy. Coming through the screen or through your ears or both as you listen to that conversation. What a great conversation with an amazing human being. So many things that stand out for me as potential coachable moments from the conversation with Maggie, but I like to do it in threes. So here are three. First is about vision. I do hope that you get to experience A Place at the Table. If you're ever in Raleigh, North Carolina, or if you live there or in the area, you should go there. If you don't have that opportunity, I hope you, and maybe we can put this in the show notes. At least get to... See it online or read a little bit about it. We'll try to help you out with that with some links in the show notes. But the, the vision that she has executed is... Unlike anything I've really seen, having experienced it myself yesterday and listening to her. And so like lots of people talk about vision and I think it becomes almost like. A buzzword that nobody pays attention to anymore. Like what's your vision? What's your mission? Well, she actually had a vision and she still has a vision. And so how did she do that? And I think it really starts with her level of engagement and meeting people where they are, being with people and being with people, observing, listening, watching, walking alongside. People. And then from all that... You observe a need. And her vision is... Filling or fulfilling. An observed need. And so it's very authentic. Which enabled her. And still enables her. To enroll people in that vision because it's an authentic need. You know, that's what she has identified. And she did that. Kind of leads to the second Coachable Moment. As she said, she is really good at loving. It's funny, I posted on LinkedIn a couple of days ago before I recorded this. Uh, picture you can look at it on my LinkedIn feed it's a picture of a bench against a wall I saw it in Lisbon, Portugal and I was there on a on a holiday last month. And spray painted on the wall above the bench is... Sit here if you have love to give. Sit here if you have love to give. Well, she has a lot of love to give. Right? That bench is for Maggie. And so I asked her to unpack what it means to be loving, to be good at loving. I didn't capture everything she said. Empathy, seeing people, talking with them about their hopes and their dreams. Their past, treating them as human, right? This show is about the intersection of effective self-management and positive leadership outcomes. I think there's absolutely a role for love. World for sure, but more specifically in the workplace. It doesn't mean you have to hug people if you're not a hugger. You don't have to hug people. She's a hugger. But you don't have to be auger. You just have to be with people and actually give a damn. And, and connect with them and be empathetic and ask them. Help. Which she talked a lot about, ask them about their hopes and dreams, ask them how you can help them. Observe that. Treat them as human beings with dignity. Another big word for Maggie. Because She didn't relate that directly to the loving, but I think there's a pretty strong connection there. And then finally, you've experienced how much energy Maggie has. I almost asked her, I said, like, when do you flip the off switch? Because I can imagine she's always on. She did talk a little bit about it, and I asked her to go a little bit deeper. One big off switch was her six-week trek through Spain on the Camino pilgrimage. And again, like I said in the conversation, that's not exactly easy to do. I don't expect very many people listening to this are going to take six weeks to walk through Spain. On a pilgrimage kind of retreat. However, what almost anybody listening to this conversation, this podcast could do, including me, which I actually do this, is take 15 minutes at the beginning of the day to be quiet. Take 15 minutes at the beginning of the day to read something that makes you think. Makes you connect with your purpose. That's kind of how I define spirituality, is a strong connection with purpose. She clearly has that. So she takes 15 minutes before she opens her computer. She gets her cup of coffee and wake up a little bit. But before the computer is open and all the emails start. Take some time. To be quiet and to be open to what you hear while you're being quiet, whether it's you're hearing it through reading or hearing it through. Listening to something inspiring, whatever it might be. Closely related to that was her visualization routine. She didn't quite call it that, but it kind of is what it is. Today is going to be a great day. And I love what she said about if I put positive energy out there, I'm much more likely to get positive energy back. What a simple but powerful concept that is. If I put positive energy out there, I'm going to get positive energy back. I don't know how that's going to manifest exactly. I don't know what it's going to lead to, but it's going to lead to something good. And she talked about being a person of faith. That is one definition of faith, is believing that if you do good things... Things are going to happen if you put positive energy out there positive things are going to happen. I think her lived experience, the success that she's had, the impact that she's had. With. With her staff, with her volunteers, with her board. With her donors, everybody else involved in A Place at the Table certainly illustrates. Her desire or her belief that it's going to be a good day and make every day a great one. So lots there to chew on. I encourage you to go back and listen to it again and take your own notes on coachable moments from Maggie Kane, the founder and executive director of A Place at the Table. In Raleigh, North Carolina. Thanks for listening to this episode. We'll see you on the next one.