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TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays from 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with full episodes posted to Spotify immediately after airing.
Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” TBPN has interviewed Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella. Diet TBPN delivers the best moments from each episode in under 30 minutes.
It's a sick day today. We're both a little sick, little into the weather.
Speaker 2:People in the comments yesterday The clock. The day before, they were accusing us of having a big night out.
Speaker 1:Oh, they were.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, no. No. Hate to disappoint. We are just sick, but the show must go on.
Speaker 3:The show goes on. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Last night, yesterday, you called me or you texted me, like, hey. You could free for a minute, like, 5PM. And I was like, I just woke up because I took a nap after the show. I'm, big into naps. Sleepy time is here.
Speaker 1:We got a new soundboard effect. Get ready. It's gonna be a big day. There's an update. So first off, we gotta get you up to date on how how many days is it till Christmas.
Speaker 1:This is the question everyone's been asking us.
Speaker 3:They've been waiting, hoping that we would
Speaker 1:chime in today. This is a big part of why we're live. If we weren't live today, you wouldn't know there's forty three days until Christmas, and a Rubik's cube has 43 quintillion possible combinations. Interesting. Forty three days till Christmas.
Speaker 1:Road to Christmas is getting shorter and shorter. It's right around the corner. We're very excited. Darren Farber, I believe he's also on the board of Magpul, so we can ask him about top Christmas gifts from that company.
Speaker 2:What products should go in a stocking
Speaker 1:Exactly. Or to the tree. Exactly. Well, there's a new statement from the independent board of member... The independent members of NVIDIA's board.
Speaker 1:The Jensen story continues to evolve. It's on the cover of The Wall Street Journal again next to Hank Seth. NVIDIA's CEO affair NVIDIA CEO's affair became national security nightmare. I don't know how much more there is to talk about this. The the the latest scoop from Axios is that commerce secretary Howard Letnick was sent a highly classified memo warning about NVIDIA Jensen Huang's NVIDIA CEO Jensen Huang's relationship with suspected Chinese spy Alice Wong.
Speaker 1:Letnick oversees the agency charged with keeping sensitive US technology out of the hands of American adversaries. The warning raises questions about how the department weighed political, potentially... Potential security risks as it cleared advanced NVIDIA chips sales to China affiliated entities. And it's... I...
Speaker 1:It feels like we're getting closer to understanding the role that Alice Wong was playing. I think we might be taking her out of the James Bond bucket soon, and it much... It would be much more, like, considered an asset versus an agent. So an asset in the sense that she was actually running a business, was actually connected, and then contacted by the intelligence community in China to funnel information, do spying things, lower risk operations, not day one training. But this is all speculation still, but we'll see.
Speaker 1:But they are two different they are two different things.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Sort of a technicality, unclear how much... Like, it's less interesting of a story. Yeah. But the net effect, I think, is, like, pretty much the same.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But there are some absolute banger memes that are coming out of it. Ironically, using probably Nvidia GPUs to create them. Absolute banger Jensen can connect a 100,000 GPUs, but forget Absolutely crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Really really weird to see all these around basically like Jensen's own creation. Yeah. You know?
Speaker 1:It does feel like it's it's broken containment. Maybe it's just my Instagram algorithm, but I felt like I saw a lot of content creators that don't really talk about the nitty gritty of tech or maybe talk about tech at a very high level, they might... This might be the first time they ever mentioned NVIDIA. They might have talked about a a viral Dario clip or a Sam clip or Elon occasionally, but that's not their wheelhouse. But everyone is is is is giving their take or or having a laugh about this on on social media.
Speaker 1:It... It's going very, very broad. Still remains to be seen if it's if it's as broad as the Lewinsky scandal. That was, like, more... Even even more global of a story, but this is this is big.
Speaker 1:So Senate Banking Republican has called on NVIDIA's CEO to resign. Where... Tyler, can we pull up the prediction markets and see where the latest sits there? But a senior Republican member of the Senate Banking Committee is calling for Jensen Huang to step down as CEO of NVIDIA following the disclosure that he had an extramarital affair with an alleged Chinese spy. North Dakota senator Kevin Kramer said Wong's actions as head of the world's largest AI chip company pose a clear national security risk.
Speaker 1:The potential for extortion is so tremendous that something as sensitive as NVIDIA chips, I just think he's got to go. Of course, there's a lot of discussion over what would be... Who would step in. It's it's a very confusing... There's not a clear successor in line, Jensen was planning on running the company for a really long time.
Speaker 1:Where's the poly market at or the culture?
Speaker 4:Yeah. It hasn't really changed
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 4:Since yesterday. So the chance that he leaves before July of next year is still at 38%. Mhmm. That's what it was.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, he is... He's firmly in the camp of, like, business as usual not leaving. So CNBC's reporting that CEO Jensen Huang
Speaker 2:I feel like...
Speaker 1:Walked into NVIDIA Santa Clara, California headquarters on Monday and conducted his regular morning meeting with top level executives. He had disclosed it. He kicked it off by addressing the infidelity, saying that he was sorry, didn't take any questions, and moved and pivoted to business and top agenda items of the day. So, Jordan.
Speaker 2:I was gonna ask about the technicalities around the prediction market because sometimes these things can, like, get a... Like, it's more interesting, like, is Jensen still chairman in in some ways, like Yeah. By next summer. Right? Not just about the CEO title because there's a lot of, like, different...
Speaker 2:There's a lot of potential outcomes here Yep. Where he's, you know, fully just becomes, you know, shareholder. Right? And and continues in that way. But...
Speaker 4:Yeah. So it requires him to actually fully leave, not just, like, announce that he's leaving.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 4:But I I think if he stay... If he becomes chairman of something and fully leaves CEO position, then it counts.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Obviously, a very different situation, but Elon Musk has held different, different roles at, SpaceX and Tesla. Chief executive officer of Tesla, techno king is technically one of his titles. Techno king of Tesla, and he's also board director.
Speaker 1:And then at SpaceX, he's the founder. He's not the founder of Tesla. He's the CEO and the CTO of SpaceX. And I and I feel like there was another title that he held at one point, but he officially adopted the title of techno king of Tesla on 03/15/2021 while retaining his CEO position. And I remember there was a there was a moment in the shareholder lawsuit, the whole funding secured saga, where there was a question about whether or not he'd to step into a different role.
Speaker 1:But that would be sort of immaterial because, of course, all the... He wasn't going to have to sell down the position or change any of the voting structure or leave the board or do anything. But there might have been a... There at one point, there was discussion of a ruling that would put him in a different seat. But, of course, he already has the the techno king role.
Speaker 1:So I think he'd be I think he'd be quite fine with that. So maybe maybe the maybe the outcome would be Jensen becomes techno king of of NVIDIA, and the prediction markets resolve, positively that he did in fact step down, but it's not what you think it is. So, always always new... Always nuance there. Also, people are are are really grave dancing here, talking about the death of the CUDA mote.
Speaker 1:Anthropic sees all compute as fungible, and it only took mythos three days to figure out how to run itself on AMD hardware compared to six to twelve months. When we talked to Lisa Sue at at AMD a couple months ago over the summer, this was the big story of the day, was that the bring up time had been significantly reduced from these AI speed ups, which is interesting because it... It's such a crazy multiplier going from six to twelve months to three days. That's like... That's a 10x increase, a...
Speaker 1:No. More like a 30x, 50x, 100x increase in in speed. And yet, there's still a lot of debate over whether Anthropic is seeing a two x increase in in AI development, and there's some debate in the latest model card in
Speaker 2:the latest... Yeah. The timing of of the of the the Jensen spy crisis. Yeah. And the Anthropic IPO is is just really wild.
Speaker 2:Obviously, Anthropic is ascendant. Yeah. Their views are very much at odds with NVIDIA's. Mhmm. Right?
Speaker 2:They have drastically different world views. They they view... I would say that they they obviously play nice, but they view the technology in a completely different way. 100%. And their frenemies might even be, like, too friendly.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Right? Because if you can imagine, like, what Anthropic executives would say behind closed doors about about NVIDIA and their actions over the last few years. Right? They could simultaneously, you know, agree that, like, they make, you know, pretty good GPUs.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And... But they strongly, strongly disagree with with the approach that NVIDIA has taken to, you know, exporting the technology. 100%. And so I very much... Yeah.
Speaker 2:They... Of course, they're gonna be taking, you know, one, I think this is, like, pretty much real. This this, like, I think going back to... As as you started to understand the implications of how quickly we would be able to generate software Mhmm. You had to be bearish on CUDA.
Speaker 2:Right? The two things were completely at odds. And and one of these things that's interesting where, like, NVIDIA is, like, helping create its own, helping disrupt itself Yeah. In the same way that you saw with Google creating Reddit. Creating, like, the original
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:LLM. Also, like, creating the technology to to ultimately disrupt itself. Yeah. And so I would just see Dario will be out there continuing to push, you know, Anthropic's world view Mhmm. At a time when Jensen is, like, greatly weakened.
Speaker 2:Right?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And his ability to fight for his view is is just so diminished. Yeah. And so so... Yeah.
Speaker 1:Fascinating. Time, it feels like all of that is true behind the scenes, probably in Washington right now, especially with the realignment post midterms. But that was not the focus of the of the IPO Roadshow. The IPO Roadshow was not focused on doom and fear mongering. It was very focused on the age of miracles, curing cancer, the more optimistic side, and it also wasn't particularly focused on geopolitical considerations even though you could imagine that driving the marginal investor, but it's a little too...
Speaker 1:It's it's it's it's too crazy, maybe too scary, maybe too complicated to lay that out in the IPO roadshow. So focus on the impact of the technology, the adoption, the revenue, the the margins, etcetera. S and P five hundred's up. It's ripping. The stock market's ripping.
Speaker 2:NVIDIA, also rallying. We're
Speaker 1:3% away from a new record high. The S and P five hundred surges above 7,600 as dip buyers continue to rotate back into technology stocks. We talked to a very sharp market analyst about the sell off and he said, I think it's a buying opportunity. And I think he was right. How's NVIDIA doing?
Speaker 2:Almost 4% today.
Speaker 1:Okay. 4% today.
Speaker 2:No. Hasn't Repent. Still down I mean 22% over the last month. The month is
Speaker 1:down 22%. But... Yeah. We'll we'll we'll we'll see. We'll see.
Speaker 1:Core Weave is doing really well, which is like completely reviving the AI trade. The Nasdaq raised last week's losses as Core Weave results and prospect of higher Anthropic IPO valuation boost sentiment. Yeah, the Anthropic valuation is like jumping all over the place. The Wall Street Journal had an article, Anthropic sets value far below 2,000,000,000,000 for debut. Anthropic will seek evaluation of around 1,330,000,000,000.
Speaker 1:I've seen 1,200,000,000,000 floated. The the range is 1.26 to 1.41, so things seem to be going well. I saw Joe saying it was oversubscribed by two or three x. Again, we've we've heard that for some IPOs, like, you wanna be more in, the 10 x range, but, again, we're still in a a full week out, maybe eight days out. So we could see it get up to that point.
Speaker 1:At what point you would expect it to be at the top of the range and pop, but we'll see. We'll see. Traders pointed to results late on Tuesday from cloud computing group CoreWeave, where revenue growth exceeded the company's guidance, while the Feet reported that Anthropic's bankers were weighing plans to increase the AI company's valuation to 1,500,000,000,000 in the coming days. So it's it's moving upwards. CoreWeave share price has halved since the summer after investors appeared to lose faith in the company, the company's debt funded bet on AI revenues.
Speaker 1:CoreWeave shares were up 26.8%, you know, still down, not back to where they they they gotta go up a 100% to get back to their peak, but a solid, solid step forward for sure. Investors are being whipsawed by news flows and sentiment between this being a generational buying opportunity into AI or a classic value trap, they say. The jump in US stocks helped lift the dollar back to its strongest level since April 2025, exceeding a high reach last month. The greenback has climbed more than 1% against a basket of major currencies in the past two sessions, following higher than expected US inflation figures, which cemented expectations of Federal Reserve interest rate rise last month. So the AI trade is firmly back on, and it feels like it's back to the shape of the trade, which is like higher inflation, higher interest rates.
Speaker 1:It's not entirely over for software companies, but the but demand for compute continues to to grow. Our across the end at ramp put out the latest ramp data that was... Seemed sort of weak, but out of line with what Anthropic has said around like 13% growth and on the ramp data, it was 1%. There's some sort of delta going on there, some difference between what's going on in the enterprise versus what's going on on the credit card data and the panel data. But in general, it seems like there's a lot of cautious optimism that the long term trends will just continue, especially with the launch of new models that can do more and more stuff, make videos and work on complex CAD files and designs.
Speaker 1:And the GDP X benchmark from semi analysis is far from saturated. Like Fable 5.2, really, really strong results in a bunch of places, but the jump on GDPX went from like 12% to 16%, which, I mean, I would expect that that continues and everyone hill climbs that over the next year. But it was...
Speaker 2:A ways to go.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It was a ways to go. It was it was refreshing to see that there's that there's many more things to work on. Jeff Yas, founder
Speaker 2:of Susquehanna,
Speaker 1:thinks that there's no such thing as a stock market bubble.
Speaker 2:This warm my heart. Why don't why don't why don't we get into it?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Bubbles are going on the nice list. Are they going on the nice list or the naughty list? We don't like when they pop, but we like bubbles. Okay.
Speaker 1:Well, Jeff Yas thinks that they don't exist at all. He says in 1999, just as today, when share prices fall, it isn't a delusion correcting, it's uncertainty resolving. Every time the market falls, the pundits come out with the same diagnosis. It was a bubble. Speculators lost their minds, and somebody should have stopped them.
Speaker 1:This time, the pundits are early. They decided artificial intelligence is a bubble before anything had fallen. Really? Why would rational investors suddenly lose their mind? Start with the word itself.
Speaker 1:What is a bubble? The bubble collars mean a price that a price that hype has pushed above fundamental value. Notice what that assumes, that there is a true price, that the market has lost sight of it, and that when prices come down, reality is correcting a delusion. This totally misunderstands prices and uncertainty and volatility. There is no true price to lose sight of.
Speaker 1:The value of a new technology is uncertain, and a price isn't a verdict on what it's worth. It's the market's best guess. Every possible future weighted by its likelihood of payoff made by millions of people with their own money on the line and more information than any pundit can hold. When the fall comes, it won't prove anyone was irrational. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I saw someone posting like, oh, yeah. When Jensen signed that girl's T shirt, that was your signal to sell. It's like, I think NVIDIA, like, five x since then, and it's down, like, 20%.
Speaker 2:Like Could have been that much, but
Speaker 1:he put on the leather jacket, that was the sign. And it's like, that was twenty years ago. Like, I'm pretty sure that was not the sign. Hype is real and it moves prices, but the speculators buying and selling AI stocks know that and factor it in with their own money at risk, the idea that hype is something a talking head understands. He's really taken a shot at the talking heads, Jeff.
Speaker 1:Come on the show, debate it with us in person. Let's see who knows more, the talking head or you?
Speaker 2:CMC in the in the chat said something, shared an interesting detail that I'd forgotten.
Speaker 1:What's that?
Speaker 2:It's that, NVIDIA actually replaced Enron and the S and P 500 Oh. In... On 11/30/2001. So traded
Speaker 1:the red. Beautiful. You're wearing the the sweater to commemorate it. Right?
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:Yeah. The Jensen sweater.
Speaker 2:Well, we're still a few days away from from that.
Speaker 1:Earnings next next week for NVIDIA. That'll be interesting. I imagine they'll do very well.
Speaker 2:We gotta talk about hobbies.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:It's time.
Speaker 1:The great hobby debate.
Speaker 2:Masha, the butcher, the butcher Yeah. Says, the best founders I backed had no hobbies. Only one obsession, the company. And Martin Casado, widely known as the 2026 Venture Capitalist of the Year, according to me, and not based on any...
Speaker 1:Remind me.
Speaker 3:Just...
Speaker 1:I I mean, I know Martin...
Speaker 2:Cursor... Was he the cursor in open router, World Labs, like like at least when you get like a 100 bill... Like Yeah. Something close, you know, getting into the range of like...
Speaker 1:I didn't realize... I knew a 16 z did all three of those. I didn't realize he did all three of them. Yeah. That's pretty impressive.
Speaker 1:Wow. Yeah. So Martin's not... Yeah. He might
Speaker 2:have a really
Speaker 1:strong showing on the Midas list this year.
Speaker 2:Bay says, the best founders I've backed had no bodies, no arms, no legs, no hands, no feet, just brains and vats plugged into the company's Slack.
Speaker 1:Sick.
Speaker 2:And Sheil breaks it down for us. Famous hobbies outside of work, Mark Zuckerberg, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, MMA, surfing, hydrofoiling. One, I don't know that he was doing any of these things prior to having a trillion dollar company. So I would almost give that point to Masha. Bill Gates, bridge, tennis, pickleball, and reading.
Speaker 2:He knew how to read when he was building his company. I don't know how much time... I I honestly don't know. Is the the Bill Gates history enough to know if he was, like, playing a lot of Tennal. I certainly wasn't playing pickleball when he was building Microsoft.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And he's also not like, you can't put retired people on this list. Like, Steve Jobs, Zen meditation, music, long walks, Japanese art and design. I don't think of art as a hobby unless you're... Unless he was making Japanese art.
Speaker 5:I think it's big
Speaker 1:question is what is a hobby and what isn't a hobby? Because Teal was recently interviewed and he said like his hobby is having these dinner... You saw having dinner parties with interesting people. And I'm like, that's pretty close to just nice That's utility. Dinner for your fun.
Speaker 1:Also, that's like
Speaker 2:a utility. I need to eat one way or another. Maybe I'll I'll turn it into work.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's like I started my YouTube channel as a hobby. Now it's a full time job and it's kind of evolved. What what is a hobby? I feel like the the hobby needs to be truly nonmonetizable, completely unrelated.
Speaker 1:It needs to be like, you're a lawyer and you build ships in bottles, and there's no connection. And, like, building building a ship in a bottle is the peak hobby. Like, you can't get more hobbyist than that. Maybe model trains, stuff like that, but something where there's no commercial bleed over whatsoever. But if you're like, my hobby is bringing together the best minds in my industry for dinners, that's just extra work.
Speaker 1:That's kind of fun as well. And it's great because you clearly found your life's work. You found your Ike guy, your purpose, because in your free time, you can do things that feel fun, but still have value to your overall mission and purpose. But there are so many things that where... First off...
Speaker 2:Also, you gotta have... You got a clear minimum. Like, if you do something for ten hours a year, I don't really consider you an active participant in the hobby. Mhmm. You're very much casual.
Speaker 2:Right? Sure. So going down this list, Sergey Brent, trapeze, gymnastics, diving, and burning man. Okay. So burning man, I view as a vacation.
Speaker 1:That's a vacation. I wouldn't call it Diving? There are some people that, like, build cars for, like, months year. I don't think
Speaker 2:he's gonna have to do diving. I love to go diving.
Speaker 1:I think
Speaker 2:that's super fun as well. How much... How many hours under the water are you putting up? Because I don't
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's not like you can say, like, oh, yeah. He's really into hobbies if he's putting up five hours of diving a year. Sure. Right? Yeah.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't count that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Hobby has...
Speaker 2:Jeff Bezos. Sailing, flying helicopters, ocean exploration. Again, I don't know that he was
Speaker 1:doing... Ocean exploration.
Speaker 2:It's funny that Allison Allison isn't on this list when he's like the most hobby max, like, CEO. Yeah. Dog fighting with his son Yeah. Sailing Sailing. And stuff.
Speaker 1:But even that, I mean, there's Oracle logos all over the boats and stuff. Let's check the tax return. Is that is that is the sailing is sale GP?
Speaker 2:Notably absent from this list is day drinking. Like,
Speaker 1:none of these... You come up with that or somebody said that?
Speaker 2:Well, no. No. I I just said that. I'm looking here. No.
Speaker 2:None of history's greatest...
Speaker 1:Edward 40 hands. Is that a hobby? Does that count? No. Obviously, there's a lot of founders that pre product market fit are fully locked in and are not actively doing hobbies.
Speaker 1:And then also So things like watching TV, watching movies, video games, hanging out with friends, drinking, going out to dinners, no one counts that as a hobby. That's just taking time off. Like, you wouldn't say like, oh, yeah. My family is a hobby. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right? Oh, yeah. Have a hobby. Rearing children. No.
Speaker 1:Rearing children is not is not a hobby, but it still takes you away from work in a great way. But hobby needs to be like an extra thing that's so... Here's here's
Speaker 2:one though. Long walks. Is that a hobby? Walking? No.
Speaker 2:I think No. I think it can be. Actually New definition.
Speaker 1:If it... If it's a hobby, you you have to go to Home Depot at least once a quarter for it to be counted as a hobby. You have to stop by a physical store. Move... Cinema.
Speaker 1:Especially the store.
Speaker 2:Cinema. Can cinema No. Think cinema can No. Hobby.
Speaker 1:No. Unless unless you're building a home movie theater and you're you're at Home Depot picking out sound isolating wall materials, then it's your hobby. But if you're just going to the theater, that's just being a normal person. You don't have a hobby. No.
Speaker 1:It needs to be something where
Speaker 2:you're creating a normal person. I never go to the movies unless unless we're going for work.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But but even even if you went and you were like, I'm a fan. I'm a cinephile. That's that's just being
Speaker 2:fan of technical definition. It can't be primarily for financial gain or professional obligation.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And so I think that walking I think that walking can be a hobby. I I do think that you could...
Speaker 1:Working out is not a hobby.
Speaker 2:I disagree. I think you can make it a hobby.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I I... Sleeping? Is sleeping a hobby?
Speaker 2:I think it's one of the... I I think it's a very lame... Sleep. I think it's a very lame hobby because I Sleeping? No.
Speaker 2:No. No.
Speaker 1:You think sleeping is a lame hobby?
Speaker 3:I'm talking about working out.
Speaker 2:There was a period of my life where, like, going to the gym
Speaker 1:You took it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I treated it treated
Speaker 1:it a hobby because And I
Speaker 2:was like, what am I what am I doing?
Speaker 1:But you were going to Home Depot to get special, you know, supplements probably or the equivalent of Home Depot nutritional sob... Shop... Vitamin shop. If you're going to the vitamin shop, that is a specialty hobby hobby level store. It's like you went to the model train store.
Speaker 1:That's now your hobby. But if you're just going to the gym and you're not actually building new things and creating something from scratch and, like, innovating in the little discipline
Speaker 2:You don't think... So do you think sleep is a hobby for Brian Johnson?
Speaker 1:Yes. Well, no. Because it's financial gain for him because he... That's his
Speaker 2:business. But
Speaker 1:there are some people for which sleep is a hobby where they are constantly tweaking it. It needs to be it needs to be a a a constant evolution. So if you have a gym routine and you're like, yeah, I go to this gym and I haven't changed what I do and I'm not like an... You have to be a nerd about it. You have to nerd out for it to be a hobby.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And that means Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. For example, like, don't Inner bike. Dirt biking is not a hobby of mine. Yes. I have a dirt bike.
Speaker 2:Yes. Ride it.
Speaker 1:Yes. But it could become a hobby if you were working on your dirt bike, constantly getting a new one, finding new trails, building new trails, doing all these different things, part of the community, going to Home Depot. That's an important step, or the Home Depot equivalent of, like, the dirt bike store. If the guy at the dirt bike store knows your name, you're in the hobby world. Hobby territory.
Speaker 1:But but but if you're just doing it for fun every once in a while, not a hobby. Yeah. That's my bar. Anyway Honestly Founders obviously can be founders for decades. And I might have to market fit, it's hard.
Speaker 2:I think I'm getting more getting more convinced that the butcher might be right.
Speaker 1:No. I don't. So I completely disagree with this. I completely disagree with this because it's it's it's founders. Founders does not mean pre product market fit founders.
Speaker 1:It means all founders. Plenty of founders start their company, have no hobbies, and then three years in, it's a billion dollar company. They've taken $20,000,000 in secondary. They have a whole staff and executive team, and there is time and space for hobbies to creep in. And those do occasionally.
Speaker 2:I would just say a lot of these are interests, not hobbies. Then you gotta get into the difference between, like like, interests are things that, like, if you had a lot of time, you'd be doing them. They would be hobbies. Right?
Speaker 1:Yes. But what I'm saying is, like, I count Brazilian jujitsu as a hobby of Mark Zuckerberg's. It's not directly related to the financial gain. He is a nerd about it. He's constantly improving.
Speaker 1:He takes it very seriously.
Speaker 2:Honestly And why is he able to
Speaker 1:do that? Because his business is scaled. He has control. He has time on his hands. He has some flexibility.
Speaker 1:Now did he have hobbies in the first year? Probably not. In 2005, 2006
Speaker 2:year? Probably not. No.
Speaker 3:In the third year, probably not.
Speaker 1:Probably not. But ten years in Probably not. But you don't stop being a founder after ten years. She didn't say early stage founders. She said best founders.
Speaker 2:All I'm saying is for for Shields rebuttal.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:What's He's listing a lot of people that are founders but are not active in the companies that they founded anymore.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And...
Speaker 1:A lot of these are active founders. Elon went during the video game run for sure active at that time, very active. Warren Buffett, active. Bezos, some of this stuff was going on. I would count him still as an active founder across Blue Origin, and I think he's still involved at at at Amazon as well.
Speaker 1:Jensen, for sure. Sergei is still really involved with Alphabet. He's still the founder. Like, the... All these people are are...
Speaker 1:Were founders even even post grind, post early day to day. What do you say?
Speaker 4:Do she said that best founders I've backed had no hobbies, not have no hobbies.
Speaker 1:So it could be before starting the company laser focused, which if that is the read, I agree with it. I agree with it.
Speaker 2:Let's pull up this video of Warren Buffett Yeah. Playing the ukulele Okay. On CNN.
Speaker 1:And see if it's hobby or casual.
Speaker 2:Or just like an interest.
Speaker 5:Warren has not played this instrument before, this particular one. We purchased this in New York City today, but we believe it's a good one. He has had a little practice on it. You're ready to go. And this is Warren Buffett singing Frank Sinatra's My Way.
Speaker 3:Joined by...
Speaker 5:I've a little bit of murmuring in
Speaker 3:the Let's do it. Here we Now the end is near, and so I face the final curtain.
Speaker 2:Hobby. My friend.
Speaker 1:Hobby. Hobby.
Speaker 2:I'll say it clear. Elite.
Speaker 1:Confirm.
Speaker 3:I'll say the time. Something else or
Speaker 1:said it
Speaker 3:to on which I'm certain certain. I've lived a life that's full and traveled each and every highway and more. Much more than this. I did my my
Speaker 1:way. Way. And that's his... Fantastic
Speaker 2:character. That elite. That was elite. That's a... And you know and you know it's Hobby, you know, he you know he really has love for the uke Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because he just he just picked something up. Wasn't even his. It wasn't even his. He just picked it up.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Tyler, do you have any hobbies?
Speaker 4:Memorizing Homer. That's a good hobby
Speaker 1:I can... Memorizing Homer? Yeah. Recite some Homer.
Speaker 4:Rage goddess. Sing the rage of Pellis' son Achilles. Murderous doomed that cost the Achaeans countless lots. Oh, wow. Falling down to the house of death.
Speaker 1:Okay. Legit hobby. I was gonna point out the fact that you have multiple Rubik's cubes on your desk right now. That's extreme hobby territory. The fact that if you had just had the normal three by three Rubik's cube, I would say casual.
Speaker 1:But how... What is that? It's 10 by 10? Nine Nine by nine? Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's hobby territory. The guy at the Rubik's cube store knows your name. Confirmed. Confirmed for The guy at the Rubik's...
Speaker 2:I went to the Rubik's Cube store and they didn't know.
Speaker 1:They didn't know you. Yeah. No. I went to the hobby store and they didn't know you. It's a hobby.
Speaker 2:I think we nailed it down.
Speaker 1:The guy knows your name at the store that sells the stuff for the hobby, then it's a hobby. Otherwise, you're casual. Leave us five stars on Apple Podcast and Spotify. Sign up for our newsletter at tvpn.com.
Speaker 2:And in honor of Call of Duty Foundation
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Which you can support in the game
Speaker 1:Yes. By buying... The Valor Pack.
Speaker 2:Or you just go give directly....
Speaker 1:Normally been a skins guy. I I just sort of play the game for fun. I am a casual. I would not call it a hobby. But now...
Speaker 2:I went to the Call of Duty office....
Speaker 1:Know my name, so I guess I'm gonna be a hobbyist.
Speaker 2:Blue ball.
Speaker 1:I'm definitely getting the code pack. Call of Duty endowment.
Speaker 2:See you tomorrow. Bye.