Congressman Pat Ryan
Lauren Bedula 0:00
Welcome back to Building the Base Hondo Geurts and Lauren Bedula here, and we're thrilled to be recording live from the Reagan National Defense Forum in Simi Valley. We're sitting here with Congressman Pat Ryan, who is a really special guest for us in his current role on the House Armed Service Committee, championing issues around defense tech, co chair of the Defense Modernization Caucus, so we'll get into that, and then has a background on the private sector side and defense tech. So so much that we're going to dig into today. Congressman Ryan, thanks so much for joining us.
Pat Ryan 0:30
The weather here is so much better than where I came from. So excited to be here with you guys.
Hondo Geurts 0:36
It's great to have you here. Congressman, you've got a really, unique background. How did you get into the military, and then from that, translate that over to now a successful career on the Hill?
Pat Ryan 0:51
So I grew up about an hour from West Point, and I now actually represent West Point in Congress, which is one of the coolest parts of this job. And so I sort of fell in love with it, the place as a kid, as well as my grandfather, who was a purple heart recipient, World War II Navy veteran and so that plus and Tom Clancy growing up, you know, it's just the perfect combination of patriotism and wanting to serve. And so I did my West Point time, did two Iraq deployments as an Army Intel officer in a tactical role in an infantry battalion, and then, yeah, got out and started working with Palantir in the early days. Went on to work for several other defense tech companies, including that's where I first met Lauren. And you know, we're always trying to meet with and and pitch you, and then, yeah, Congress is not, was truly not on the on the in the plan. Post Trump's election, I just felt like the tone and tenor of our politics in 2016 was really tough, and so I ran for local office. Served there for few years, and now been in Congress. Just finishing my first term.
Hondo Geurts 2:03
So when did you make the decision? Like, what was your one night you said, Okay, I'm gonna go for it. Run for Congress. Or was it, oh, you know, something you've been thinking about a little bit?
Pat Ryan 2:14
I really hadn't been thinking about it. I It was very personal to me. Folks may not agree with this, but I felt, and still largely feel, Trump doesn't align with a lot of our values and founding values of our country. And so I felt like, you know, I was doing I was having a lot of fun. I was building tech companies serving great customers, but I was like, I feel like I kind of need to be in the political arena here, and we'd had so few military veterans in Congress for so long, I thought it was really important to have folks who have been on the receiving end of a lot of in my case, I think some bad foreign policy in Iraq, to actually be at the table now to do better.
Lauren Bedula 2:54
And let's talk a little bit about your experience. You know, I think you were in defense tech for venture backed companies almost before it was as popular as it was. There is today, sort of in that post Snowden world. Can you talk about that experience, some of the challenges you faced, and why it's driven you to do things like the Defense Modernization Caucus?
Hondo Geurts 3:15
Yeah, I mean, my rationale was I got out of the Army. I was really pissed that I hadn't had the particularly software and hardware, but in my case, software, as an intelligence officer, that we needed to do our jobs, keep people safe and accomplish a mission. So I was sort of like, there's got to this has got to be better. I ended up joining a small company doing that work, and a fellow West Point grad sort of started my career in that space, which is, which is really cool. And at that time, yeah, like, this was a niche industry. There was almost no venture money going into it. Palantir had just been formed. No one had heard of them. And you were up against a lot of kind of headwinds. And we've made a lot of progress, certainly due to a lot of people's work, but there's still, I'm still incredibly frustrated that we don't have the right approach, the right urgency, and so to get to work on that in Congress is like a dream that I never thought I'd be able to do. It's very cool.
Lauren Bedula 4:13
Can you talk about what you're seeing today and why this mission is even more important, looking at the national security threat landscape?
Pat Ryan 4:20
Well, in particular, I mean, your audience understands the threat landscape, so I won't insult their intelligence and rehash it to them. But the part I'm focused on is the urgency of Congress and the Department of Defense is not meeting the urgency of the moment. So you look at, for example, what we were able Congress forced the Department to essentially 10x their investment in the Defense Innovation Unit, for example, against a lot of inertia. We need to do that with much more force, much more breadth and much more urgency. And so Rob Wittman from Virginia and I started this Defense Modernization Caucus, believe it or not, Congress never had a group of people in a bipartisan way working on these issues, which is part of the problem. And so we're working to build momentum there, to build sort of a coalition of members who, if a company comes to us, or an investor comes and says, Hey, this is broken, like we need to change the law, we can quickly actually do that through an amendment to the defense bill, or whatever the case may be. So I'm really excited about that.
Hondo Geurts 5:26
Well, I have a great respect for you and Congressman Wittman trying to take that on. What are you seeing so far in terms of issues, or first things you're kind of focusing attention on, besides just kind of getting enough momentum to scale it, and then what are maybe some of the mid or long term goals for the caucus?
Pat Ryan 5:46
So first is, yeah, just kind of, we're going to lay out our 2025, plan, and it's going to be informed by doing something politicians don't do enough, which is listening. We're going to hold an event in February. We're going to ask industry to come talk to as many people as we can. Both of us are individually and all the members that are joining always in these conversations and meetings. Obviously, Reagan is a great place to have these meetings. We even at the we sort of formed this at the end of last year, but we were able to sneak in a few really impactful amendments to the NDAA. One that I was very focused on was making it easier to get facility clearance access for small and medium companies, which is still a huge pain in the I don't think we can curse on this show that giving a lot more authorities on talent management flexibility to DIU and other defense organizations. So there's a lot of room to do small and even medium and a few big bipartisan things in this arena. And so in the medium term, I think it's almost limitless of what, where we can sort of go with this, whether it's even a macro, big bill that we could form over a few years to do instead of nibbling around the edges with amendments to the defense bill.
Hondo Geurts 7:02
We've got a great set of listeners from the tech community. What's your advice in terms of either engaging with you individually or engaging with this caucus and and maybe help them a little bit with the role that your staff plays as part of your team to help them.
Pat Ryan 7:23
If I had known when I was, I led two sales teams in defense tech companies, like I didn't appreciate the role that Congress can play if properly motivated and engaged, and so I want to be that constructive partner, sort of working inside outside, along with other great partners. So our office is always open. We're meeting with companies all the time. If you're in DC, you can just, like, literally give us a call or go on our Pat ryan.house.gov, and you can just reach out and, yeah, staff is really important. I've come to realize this in my first two years, I have a great staffer who's just focused on defense and military issues. So working through through her is great. And the caucus, I think our goal is to be this Defense Modernization Caucus, a convening place, so we'll have a few different events throughout the year, but then also, just like kind of a collection point for input and feedback.
Lauren Bedula 8:21
That's awesome. Are you working with any NGO entities? Or do think tanks play a role here? How do you think about stakeholders in that realm?
Pat Ryan 8:29
Yeah. So, I mean, I think the ecosystem we want to hit all the parts of the ecosystem, including, like, not just companies directly, but investors and venture groups that have multiple companies, which I think is actually a place that could do more engagement with the Hill, frankly, in this space and are, and certainly with think tanks, academia. So we've been trying to bring that all together. Actually, the Reagan has been a great they're at the launch event for the caucus, so we want to have everybody involved. And I said it at the launch of the caucus, like I recognize these conversations have been happening for a long time, and we're not naive about the fact that we think this is some easy thing that's just going to happen overnight. Both Rob and I have been working on this and pounding, you know, sort of hitting our heads against the wall, along with a lot of others, for a while, but we just want to be part of adding more more urgency to it. And I do think especially in the next few years, there is a real bipartisan opportunity space to do sort of creative disruption in defense tech right at the time when capital is flowing in and great companies are growing, and the need is so urgent, and so I think it could really start to come together here in the next year or two.
Lauren Bedula 9:50
Do you have any thoughts on the current Innovation Hub ecosystem at DoD and plans for DIU 3.0? What do you think that will look like going forward?
Pat Ryan 10:01
Yeah, I still remember writing a proposal to DIU X, actually, in their early days, so it's awesome to see how far they've come. I think the innovation hubs are really important. I actually just organized a group of folks in New York City to talk about a defense in a DIU innovation hub in New York, which I can make that case if you're interested. I think it's a pretty obvious case of why there should be a Defense Innovation Hub presence in New York, as there has been, and obviously Silicon Valley, Austin and other places. So I think especially in my role as a representative for my district of 800,000 people and the state of New York, like, making sure all of the country, all the American people, our American economy, can all fully participate as this sector grows, is super important. So it's not just little pockets of, you know, a few areas, geographically and demographically, but for folks in the Hudson Valley of New York, North and New York City, like, no like no, like, we're part of building the future of our country's defense. Like, that's an empowering opportunity.
Hondo Geurts 11:09
Yeah, I think most folks maybe take the wrong lessons out of World War II and scaling, that it was, you know, big production plants and big cities, as opposed to, we had folks involved across the whole country. You know, Nebraska, to you know where. So do you think there's an opportunity to engage the US companies in a much more broad way than first we had kind of defense only now we've kind of got this, some quasi dual use? Do you think there's more opportunity to engage a wider swath to actually help us economically, as well as from a national strength perspective?
Pat Ryan 11:51
I think there's an opportunity that we need to work on. The need is, is huge, as you obviously understand. I mean, you think about, yeah, the sort of full mobilization on the order of World War II, which, God forbid we have to be in that place. But of course, we need to be be ready, and we're just nowhere near that. Like my whole district used to be an IBM manufacturing hub. My grandpa came home from World War II, got a job at IBM, worked there 36 years, provided for his family, all without even graduating high school, right? Like that, obviously, with in new industries and new sectors, but like that's what we need to build in this country, bringing good manufacturing here in defense, tech and defense and security, but just across the board, thinking again about really competing and playing to people's like love of our country and patriotism, and saying this is not only good for your family to provide a living, but it's, you know, at a dangerous time, this is how you can contribute.
Hondo Geurts 12:55
Yeah, I think many times. And you know, we try and be careful on the podcast, it's really easy to complain, you know, the dumb acquisition system, or the bureaucracy or whatnot. And we're much more focused on the action arm of that. Can you give the listeners a little, maybe some sense of your take, that we can actually take concrete value added steps in the next three months, six months, two or three years. It's not a 20 year long you know, there's things we can all be doing right now to make things better.
Pat Ryan 13:30
Yeah, I'm a perpetual optimist, which is probably why I do this crazy job. And I love that you guys are too. And I think if you look back. So I sort of like, was in this space deeply for a few years, and then I took a break and did other stuff. And now, like, over the last few years, I've been getting back up to speed with the defense tech space. And it's almost like for someone the ability to have stepped back a little bit and seen actually, how far things have come. But then I talk to folks who are in it every day, and they're like, this isn't fast enough, which I get, but it is important, I think, in order to maintain that optimism going forward, to see we really have come a long way. And you two are really two of the folks that are highly responsible for that. So I just think we have to, like, champion each other a little bit more, right? And appreciate that. And yeah, complaining doesn't really... it feels good for a second, right, but then doesn't really help.
Lauren Bedula 14:29
And we're excited, later today we have companies on who have successfully navigated DIU to leverage bridge funding through APFIT the R&E program and working their way through the system. So we work to try to tell those stories so that others can learn those best practices. So with that in mind, if you were to put your entrepreneur or founder hat back on, is there anything you would do differently today, or what do you find resonates most on the government side when you're pitched by the CEOs or executives?
Pat Ryan 15:01
I mean, there's a million things I would do differently, like all of us, but related to this specifically, I'll talk about, from my perspective, on the Hill and the congressional side and the legislative side, just have an absolutely specific ask, like, you know, just, of course, exciting to hear about what your company does and what your product does, and what the need is, and so on. And the mission fit, of course, but it's almost like presume that that's already the case. Because I think most people working in this space are largely doing it because they already, love our country, want to contribute to our defense, are building good stuff. So coming with a like, here's where I'm stuck. Here's a specific way you can help me, sort of help me help you. Because, you know, everybody's busy, and that's not just on the I'm sure that's if you're, you know, whoever you're pitching or going to. And I think I'd probably just be more direct.
Hondo Geurts 16:01
And how about your lessons learned as a sales guy trying to sell in? How do you you know from become, from being an operator to then pitching to operators? How did, how did you leverage your experience? And then, what lessons did you have to learn as a sales or business development person to be successful talking to a defense customer?
Pat Ryan 16:27
Yeah, I think both if doing the campaign and Congress has actually made me a much better storyteller, and I actually think going back to my sales days, that would have served me better. Anecdotes, specific wins, of course, are always more compelling than a 20 slide deck that everybody just turns off their brain when you see them pull it out. So I think that is one thing, and then the specific plug I would make. And I've said this to anybody that I've talked to in the space, if I had known about how to engage Congress the way I now understand. I've only been there two years. I still have a lot to learn, but like, I think you can cut a year or maybe even two, from a capture cycle with good congressional engagement, where you're adding urgency and speed by having one or several members apply pressure at the right steps of a deal and like, that's a I think, obviously that's a huge impact.
Lauren Bedula 17:30
Now, how about on the partnership side? You know this from your time in private sector. Maybe you're seeing it now. But what's your take on looking at some of these non traditionals, perhaps partnering with primes, larger, more established defense industrial base players, and then also internationally. Any thoughts on that?
Pat Ryan 17:49
I'm probably gonna upset some of your listeners, but, like, I'm just over the like, I just think the big primes are the problem. I mean, I just think that that's the case. I'm sure that I'm sure that I'm going to piss a bunch of people off saying that, but like, certainly from my role, they don't need any more help. And I think pushing disruptive, good companies to partner with them perpetuates the problem. We have to figure out a better ability, because what that really is is just a lazy or bad way for good, productive companies to scale and survive, which they need to do, but I think we're perpetuating the problem. So we need this goes back to the broader conversations about closing the valley of death, or whatever you want to whatever analogy you want to use, and I think that we shouldn't allow if that becomes the path we've felt, I actually think.
Hondo Geurts 18:44
Interesting. So I want to switch gears one more time. So you've been on the battlefield, you've been on a sales team, you've been on the Hill, all pretty grindy jobs, you know, a lot of stress here and there. What's any tips on just how do you keep your resilience, your optimism and not let whatever that is kind of grind you down as you're taking on these new challenges?
Pat Ryan 19:08
That's a great question. I've really always been re-energized when I talk to young people that are wanting to serve like even this morning at this event when the two JROTC kids, stood up and said the pledge like it reminds you why we're doing all this, and the optimism and the positivity and it helps cure the saltiness that I think a lot of us feel in the trenches every day. So I getting to represent West Point is so cool. Anytime I'm feeling like down, I go and hang out with cadets, or I have them come visit on the hill, and you just listen to them and their commitment to a mission bigger than themselves and each other, and they're smart and they're thoughtful and they're just like it. It makes me hopeful. Excuse me again, and then I do that with my own kids now too, which is sometimes. Exhausting because they're three and five but but also good grounding. So that's my I don't know. I don't have that figured out, though I've got a lot more gray hair than I did five years ago.
Hondo Geurts 20:09
Now, for the really hard question, what's the what's the score going to be? Well, this will be released after the game.
Pat Ryan 20:15
Oh, okay, Army, Navy. So I'm going to be held to this. I mean, it's been so fun to watch Army football play really, really well. I definitely think Army's gonna win, but I think it will be close. It's always close. I'm gonna say like 27 to 21 Army.
Lauren Bedula 20:36
All right. Well, go Army. On that note, I know you've got a very busy day, anything we didn't hit on, or any final thoughts, Congressman?
Pat Ryan 20:44
No, I'm just so appreciative of you guys individually and this and you guys doing this podcast, I think it's really cool and very important. So thank you for havingme.
Lauren Bedula 20:52
Thanks so much for coming on. Thanks for all the work you're doing in Congress now, helping with some of these issues. And to our listeners, you heard him. He's eager to chat and hear from you all, so reach out. Thank you, Congressman Ryan.