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A daily podcast delving into the biggest stories of the day throughout the sports betting and igaming sector.
Fernando Noodt (00:41.048)
President Lula da Silva is once again targeting the gambling industry in Brazil. As 2026 winds down, he called for a more drastic response to the sector, saying he would personally end the bets, while new legislative proposals could impose sweeping restrictions on advertising, promotions, and sponsorships. But as the government wastes in the next boops its next boop, that's how you say it. Questions are emerging over the future of the regulated market.
The growing threat of illegal operators and the potential consequences for Brazilian sport. Welcome to iGaming Daily, where we will look at what is driving the latest push against betting in Brazil, what could come next, and whether tougher restrictions could ultimately strengthen the very illegal market the government is trying to eliminate. I'm Fernando Nott, Media Manager for SBC, and your host for today.
Where I'm joined by editor for S V C Noticias Brazil, Leonardo Biazzi. Leonardo, come stay. How are you today?
Leonardo (01:44.746)
Hello fair. I'm good. I love to be here, even though you always call me to be the bearer of bad news it seems, but let's talk about it, my friend.
Fernando Noodt (01:55.021)
I'm afraid you came into SBC after the market got regulated and apparently now that same market that the government wanted to regulate is now the the cause of all evil in Brazil. So yeah, I guess every every news lately has been either bad or tough news for for the industry.
But to help us break all of this down, also with us Anna Maria Menezes, researcher for S V C. Anna, how are you today?
Ana Maria (02:29.658)
Hi Fair. honestly everyone just needs someone else to blame and the betting industry was a chosen one ahead of this election period. So yes, that's what we're here for to show exactly what is going on and hopefully hope for some good news. Hopefully. Hopefully we're gonna have some better news in the next episodes. Who knows? Hashtag winning see, right fair?
Leonardo (02:54.063)
Mm.
Fernando Noodt (02:54.52)
Hashtag wait and see for what happens in Brazil, but right now we have to hashtag take a deep dive into the news because we have been talking about Lula targeting the sports bating and eye gaming industry in Brazil over the last over the last couple of weeks slash months.
But he has made some of his strongest statements yet. and he said he personally he would end the bets altogether, like he would end betting, he would end the industry altogether. So how significant is this moment for the Brazilian betting market and why are we considering that this time is more serious than the all the previous warnings he he did?
Leonardo (03:40.246)
I think you can go Anna. No no
Ana Maria (03:40.487)
Honestly, sorry. I believe we have the the biggest two differences that we have this time is that we have two concrete decisions going on. So first of all, there was a meeting as on September first, and he said that two thirds of the decision of what he was going to do about the sector had already been made and he wanted to take some further action against betting general. And
a CNN reporting done on the seventh, September seventh, also said that the government is actually preparing a provisional measure. So with the Casa C View, one of our responsibles for how how we wait, sorry, I'm going back.
and then according to a CNN reporting from on the September seventh, the government is also preparing a provisional measure. So we have actual content coming forward this past this next week. And also we have in a separate way, the Senate Science and Technology Committee approved some restrictions on advertising as well, sponsorship on September the second. So we have the executive
taking some decisions. We also have a legislative proposal. So they're going side by side. So yeah. We are we're we're seeing definitely some changes happening this week, throughout this week. And Lula seems pretty eager to just decide as fast as he can w of course, before the election period starts.
Leonardo (05:17.912)
I think to answer your question simply for this is the worst moment for everyone who acquired a federal license in here in Brazil. Like if you're an operator, this is the worst time ever because some serious changes are coming this week or the next week, as Anna said.
Fernando Noodt (05:37.325)
And what has changed politically? Because of course we are in an election year so everything is a bit
Everything's moving quickly, everything has a different effect, everything feels more heavy for for for politicians, everything they do, everything they say. But what has changed politically over the last few weeks that this time the government has decided to move from criticism of the sector to discussing potentially more drastic measures measures, sorry.
Leonardo (06:08.122)
So I'm not a political scientist, but it's clear that Lula is losing steam in this president presidential race. Like for example, in a couple of months ago, he was ahead four or five points of Flavio Bolsonaro in the simulation of the second turn. But right now, the latest polls we have is that they are tied or that Flavio could even be ahead of Lula. Like yesterday this really big poll
Called Quest. it was requested by TV Global, the biggest media conglomerate here in Brazil. They put Lula and Flavio side by side in the second turn. I think they're tied at 41% each. So right now Lula could be losing to Flavio, and not only he does want to add more restrictions to betting, and some segments of the government even want to ban online casinos because
there's where they see the problem is but he's he also negotiated with the president of the Senate to push a bill that will end the six versus one work scale we have in Brazil. Like we're talking people who work in the rep restaurant industry, people who work at malls, like they work six days and only rest one. This bill
That will turn into a law will change how this is, like they will only work five days a week. So Lula is trying his best to gain some popularity ahead of the elections. And remember, the first turn of the election is on the 4th of October, and then the second turn is at the end of October. So he has like very little time to to make these changes and gain popularity before the elections and mainly the second term.
Fernando Noodt (08:00.224)
And Lulia said that two thirds of the decision to end the vets, like he said, had already been made before
Ana Maria (08:07.153)
Mm-hmm.
Fernando Noodt (08:10.126)
or after the meeting he held last week with some last week I mean starting in September. so what was this meeting about and what do we know about what the government could actually be considering at this stage after Lula said this that two thirds of the decision had already been made after this meeting held early in September.
Ana Maria (08:33.592)
So the meeting actually had no presence or whatsoever from the betting industry, from the gambling industry. It was done with civilian representatives. So with
health and finance but nothing to do with gambling. So that was actually something that was very it was frowned upon by the industry per se, since there was only the participation of people and organizations of course who are in a civil position but they don't have the actual data that the industry has. Not even SPA, so our regulator, not even them were present at this meeting. So it was quite odd in a way.
And something that we know that some of the measures that are being considered, just an example would be the provisional measure because it takes place in action. and yeah, so that those were some of the discussions that were held up there. But Lula wasn't very clear at least from what we heard coming from there. he wasn't very clear as to specifically specific points that he would tackle. however, what we know
Is that the provisional measure would be effective, which is exactly what the government needs. So he's looking into effective measures that can be done from day to night, which is precisely one of our biggest criticisms in the industry of how this government handles not only this government in a to be pretty fair, but how the Brazilian industry handles the the changes. It's overnight.
This doesn't give exactly some of the changes are overnight, but this doesn't exactly give operators and the industry in general time to adapt to what they need. So yeah, that's that's pr that's mostly what we have coming from this meeting with Lula.
Leonardo (10:24.418)
Yeah, that's one of the problems actually fur that Anna touched it just right at the end. Like one of the problems the government has with changing things this fast is like for example, we know operators don't don't make the games. they're made by providers and these providers cannot change things overnight. Like the games are licensed by credible organizations. So how are going they how are they going to change things at this pace? Like it's impossible. So
So maybe maybe the government, even though it wants to add more restrictions to online casinos, such as removing autoplay entirely, they will have to keep in mind that this isn't like entirely feasible. And of course this will be an opportunity for the clandestine market to also arise because their games won't be affected. It's just the the regulators operators the regulated operators' games that will be affected.
Fernando Noodt (11:23.884)
Yeah, and it's quite interesting that the the the main bodies of the industry like the ANJL, D IV JR, Ives J and I J were not involved, nor the Ministry of Finance SBA. So that's definitely this something to to take into consideration because from outside it looks like just you're just
not caring about a whole industry that has a lot of people behind it and for which you have approved a massive regulatory framework just a couple of months ago. so it's definitely definitely interesting to see what this election race eventually turns out generating for for the industry and for now what the only thing that it has sparked is juridical uncertainty which is the
Ana Maria (12:14.288)
Mm-hmm.
Fernando Noodt (12:20.27)
worst thing any industry can be facing at any country if you want to develop a healthy a healthy market. But right now we're gonna do a very quick quick outbreak because you mentioned illegal gaming in Brazil and I want to talk about it, but we'll do so right after this very short break.
.
Fernando Noodt (13:27.68)
And we're back with more iGaming Daily to continue discussing what's happening in Brazil where Lula da Silva, the president of the country, at least for now with an election coming next October, is saying he wants to end bets at all altogether. So, it's very interesting to see the debate that's been sparked in the in the country and it's actually quite it's it has raised some eyebrows in the in the industry, especially from from
From the international companies that are looking at Brazil and saying, Hey, what's going on here? We have a regulatory framework approved only a few months ago, and now you're saying you want to end the industry altogether. that sounds crazy to me. And it does sound scrap sound crazy for all of us. But there's a whole debate around this situation, around the gaming industry. And what I want to ask you guys is to what extent.
Are the current discussion distinguishing between the legal and the illegal operators? Because that's one thing that we see across multiple markets, especially the emerging ones. is that the public opinion often treats the gaming industry as as as as one thing and it does not distinguish between the the legal and the illegal operators. So what's the situation in Brazil?
Ana Maria (14:29.68)
Mm-hmm.
Ana Maria (14:43.024)
Yeah.
Ana Maria (14:49.37)
Honestly, I do see that the measures that are being how they address both both illegal and legal operations, but I would say it in different ways, such as the advertising and sponsorship restrictions apply to the regulated market, of course. And if we talk about actually if we talk about actually affecting anyone, of course we can expect everything to affect the legal market.
'Cause they are complying with all the rules. or at least they should be, of course. But if the more direct ones, I would definitely say the advertising and sponsorship restrictions would definitely fall into the regulated market. If we're talking about a possible ban of ca of online casinos, of course, the entire regulated market would suffer a lot with it. But the proposed proposed prohibition of products being classified as excessively harmful,
would also restrict what authorized operators can offer. And then separately, the bill would also create a criminal offense for promoting an o unauthorized operator, for example. And we actually have might have a prison sentence from one to five years. So this is also something quite interesting because there's an actual criminal consequence if I can say it this way
but it it actually this proposed penalty could increase by one sixth to two thirds where promotion involves influencers, athletes or other well-known figures. So I believe that there's a distinction here into how those could be affected. Cause if you're regulated and if you're complying with the rules then you shouldn't be worried about being an authorized operator. This is something that the illegal market will have to face.
However, we know how fast things change. We know how fast IPs change and a new it's like the Hydra. You cut one head and then five more just show up in place, you know? So I would definitely say that the biggest the biggest loss would definitely come to regulate to the regulated market, and not that much the illegal one. 'Cause it's easier for them to just run away and not comply with anything because again
Ana Maria (17:15.494)
They're not complying to the official rules, they're not complying to the Minister of Finance and everything.
Fernando Noodt (17:22.595)
So it ends in it ends up as as an enforcement issue rather than a regulation situation in Brazil apparently.
Ana Maria (17:31.351)
Yes, I I I would say
Fernando Noodt (17:33.782)
Yeah. And Lula actually said that there's been around sixty thousand clandestine platforms already blocked. We all know that you block one and like you said, Anna is like the hydra you block one IP and then they they just mask mask it or or duplicate it. I I don't know, I don't know the the technic technical details, but they they can easily bypass those those blocks. But another major development in Brazil besides the
the decision or the push from the president to to end the industry altogether is the proposal to dramatically restrict vetting advertising across television, radio, social media, streaming, websites, podcasts, all you name it, all all our channels. So what would a a major gambling advertising restriction or ban would mean for the industry if it becomes law in Brazil?
Leonardo (18:34.04)
So in my opinion, this is as worrying as it is what Lula is trying to do with the precautional measury, because this bill stands from an union between right wing and left wing parties in Brazil. So it's almost like everyone is against gambling or and betting right now, at least in the in the Senate. it will be a a major problem because if you're taking away gambling advertising, you're also a
Affecting sponsorships in football and sports, for example. last time I checked, for example, 14 of the 20 clubs in Brazil's top flight are sponsored by by an operator. So if you're taking away the possibility of then advertising their products, sure the clubs will earn less, for example, the competitions will make less money. And if it could potentially even break some of our football clubs because they are so dependent.
Of that money right now. Like Anna knows better than me. Her club, Flamengo, is only perhaps one of the two well-structured clubs here in Brazil right now. The rest are indebted, like the bigger ones. So you have Flamengo and Palmeiras who could get away with it, but the rest not so much.
Ana Maria (19:47.971)
Yeah.
Ana Maria (19:55.625)
and Leo, you me even mentioned Flamingo. Flamingo actually representatives actually issued a segment saying that they were worried about this bill precisely because of how much this could impact the the redistribution of how the money is actually going. This is a separate topic, but it's the public secure this is the public one second, seguranza publica.
Leonardo (20:22.234)
S public safety. Yeah, public safety.
Ana Maria (20:22.66)
Public security. Okay, sorry. Safety? Yeah. Okay. Flamingo actually issued a statement. and they were concerned about how this redistribution of assets coming of money coming from, you know, the tax collectment. And they issued this statement saying that they were worried about how the sport was surviv the Brazilian sport in general would survive.
with you know money being taken away. So we have on one side this is it con this is concerning the safety measurements that the government already has approved. Now it's just about the details, but it's reducing the money that goes to the sports, how how much the sports the betting tax collection, how much of it goes to sports. so we have this affecting on one side. And if we also have the advertisement ban
The money i it really it shrinks. It shrinks too much. And it's just like Leo mentioned, the sports in Brazil rely a lot on operators because they're the ones putting money into sport. They're the ones putting money into athletes as well, into you know, promotion. We saw after the Olympics how some betting some operators were on national television broadcasting some of athletes that otherwise we wouldn't see on television, you know. But
doing actually some very important and meaningful ads and commercials and you know with how they put on their branding. So it's I I would I a hundred percent agree with that. I I I do believe that in a way it could be even more something to worry about more than Lula's decision per se. Cause that's again is election focus. But on the other side we have an actual gather of different political parties aiming
a same target and we have from two sides. Like I just mentioned the safety pack like we mentioned and also the advertisement ban. So definitely something to be on the lookout for.
Leonardo (22:29.728)
And Lula will have no strength to even veto this project because like he has no political strength right now, or even if he wins to to some to avoid this, because most of the senators anyway are going to be against Lula next year by all the polls that we're seeing. Like he will not have a majority in the Senate or in the chambers, for example.
Fernando Noodt (22:55.799)
And besides advertising, the bill also talks about the prohibition of bonuses, free bets, cashback and loyalty programs designed of course to encourage users to bet. But I wanna focus on the advertising.
part of the of the thing so if you want to read more about the bonuses make sure you go to svcnoticias.com slash br and you can read all that's happening in Brazil not only this story but all developing stories in the Brazilian market also make sure you subscribe to the newsletter but before we go do you see like a broader shift in Brazil
that goes from just regulation itself, which is probably the most necessary part of a of a healthy industry, you see a shift from that to just trying to reduce the visibility and the size of the legal market altogether in Brazil.
Ana Maria (23:57.921)
You know what? I you just mentioned and we had just for our listeners we had a a little silence because I was honestly thinking about how to how to answer this and be the most direct I can. something that I keep thinking is that the market has some decisions ahead in terms of
Okay, is this going to reduce our size? Is this going to reduce our visibility? And I keep thinking of examples such as alcohol and tobacco. So we they both those b those industries, both of them, have faced major, major changes in visibility, and in this case advertisement over the years. So Brazil is actually pretty restrict in the saints in this sense with those two
w with those two markets and they're still thriving. They're still thriving through different i it's always about being creative and about finding the right ways within what is available of course to broadcast your product, to broadcast your industry. So you don't see in in this case, you go to a bakery and sometimes you see there a couple of you know like beers. They're all there.
You go to the cashier and there is a bunch of tobacco cigars in the back and you can just order and that's it. However, I believe with the difference with gambling is that there's not right now at least there's not physical, there there's not a physical presence. There is not a land based option. so where is the customer going to see the product if advertisement is completely off?
So I do believe that this is the biggest difference, and I do believe that this is where the market could be more affected in terms of visibility. Because if we're talking about online, Yemen, the visibility, most of it, is going to be online. And if the restrictions also concern, you know, like physical, like banners or promotions on stadium at stadiums or where is the customer going to see the brand exposure? So I do believe that this poses a different
Ana Maria (26:16.218)
I do believe this pose is different beast for the industry to slay to understand how it works, how to go around it. I do believe that this could reduce the market's visibility in a way the size. It's something that I it's also a bit hard to say, especially right now, cause it depends a lot on what international operators think of it, of local operators, of how creative these companies can be. I do believe that this can actually speed up a process.
That we already knew that it was going to happen, which is the market downsizing, not downsizing in terms of the the reach, but the number of companies operating in the country, of course, would downsize. I do believe that this is going to make this process faster. This is what's happening, it's making it faster. And not only faster, I don't think it's making it in a very sustainable way as well, but this is a process that we were also going to see in the future. So I do believe that this will definitely show which companies can be
Smarter in a way. I don't exactly like this word that much right now, but it's smarter as to how they're going to show their product, as to how they're going to advertise themselves, how they're going to go around these bands to try their best to, you know, still of course comply with the laws, show their products. So this is an interesting difference between market size and visibility. That is definitely going to be something to be on the lookout for in the next couple of months.
And the marketing teams will definitely, definitely have to work a lot from operators in order to make this issue doable in the future, you know?
Leonardo (27:53.802)
And I think it's all pretty interesting that all of this is coming at a moment that Brazil has just managed to shrink the participation of the illegal market, according to the less research that IBJR in asked for. it reduced it from almost fifty percent to forty percent, around forty percent of the market share that the illegal market has in Brazil. So
So we'll have to hashtag and wait and see and see if this will strengthen the the clandestine operators again. I think so based on what Lula is promising and what the senators are working in right now.
Fernando Noodt (28:40.458)
Absolutely. There's a few bumpy weeks ahead for the Brazilian gaming market and for Brazil society altogether because we know how elections can get. But if you want to keep up to date with everything going on in Brazil, make sure you subscribe to SBC Noticias Brazil's newsletter as well as all other SBC Media newsletters and follow iGaming Daily on social media and subscribe to
The podcast on your preferred podcasting platform. But that has been all for today. Thank you very much, Leo, Anna Maria. Thank you very much, Anei McDonald, for producing this episode. I'm Fernando Nott and to our listeners out there. We'll see you in the next one. Goodbye.