Mark Newnham, New South Wales racing, the whip and the 'eccentric genius' of Gai Waterhouse

When it was announced that Mark Newnham would be headed to Hong Kong at age 55 he was adamant it was a 'one way ticket' and he would train there until he retired. 

Mark had worked in Sydney racing for the previous 40 years, in stables, as a mature-aged apprentice, then jockey, assistant and trainer, so we thought he'd be the perfect person to provide some perspective on racing in New South Wales, where prizemoney is booming, but independent and educated industry views are sometimes hard to find. 

Mark also talks about the whip: do jockeys need to carry a whip in a race as an instrument of safety? He tells us why racing should always place the horse as hero when it comes to marketing, we touch on Australian racing's staffing issues, marketing racing careers and Mark's philosophy in guiding apprentice jockeys, something he was famous for at Randwick. 

Then there are Mark's influences: the eccentric genius of Gai Waterhouse and her superstar Pierro, Bart Cummings and Mark's father John, an old-school newspaper man who introduced his son to racing and the characters of Sydney horse racing media at a young age. 


00:00 Introduction to Mark Newnham's journey

03:02 The unique challenges of training in Hong Kong

06:05 Prizemoney is great, but what would Mark change about racing in New South Wales? 

09:04 Staffing issues in the racing industry

11:53 Mark's philosophy on guiding apprentices

14:46 Mark Newnham's career as a jockey

18:12 Influences: The 'eccentric genius' of Gai Waterhouse, Bart Cummings and Mark's father John

21:00 What makes a champion like Pierro different? 

23:56 The Future of horse racing and promoting the horse as hero 

26:53 Whip use: is the whip necessary for jockey and horse safety? 

29:56 Goals for the upcoming Hong Kong season

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Michael Cox: 00:03

Today on the Idol Horse podcast, we chat with Hong Kong based trainer Mark Newnham. Mark is somebody I've known for a long time now from back in Australia. He was a jockey and lead assistant to Gay Waterhouse, and then he became a trainer in his own right at Randwick. And, of course, now onto Hong Kong. We cover plenty of topics from the unique challenges of training in Hong Kong.

Michael Cox: 00:22

We talk about the eccentric genius of Gay Waterhouse, working for Bart Cummings, and I also ask Mark what makes a champion racehorse like Piero so special. I also wanted Mark's opinions on his former base of New South Wales, the potential sale of Rosehill Racecourse and how it improved racing there, And the whip, do jockeys really need it? All that and more coming up next on the Idol Horse Podcast with Mark Newnham. Welcome to the Idol Horse Podcast. I'm Michael Cox.

Michael Cox: 00:54

Today, our guest 2nd year Hong Kong trainer, former Sydney trainer, Mark Newnham. Welcome to the podcast.

Mark Newnham: 01:00

Yeah. Morning, Michael.

Michael Cox: 01:01

Coming off your first Hong Kong season, but also your first Hong Kong off season, which is a very unique part of racing in Hong Kong. You went for a a break in your first break in a very long time.

Mark Newnham: 01:11

Yeah. It, it was a little bit foreign to myself, and it would be to, you know, most trainers in Australia to have, have a holiday where you can actually have a complete rest, you know, with no racing in Hong Kong for 7 weeks. And even the 1st couple of weeks, the horses are are restricted to just walking and trotting exercise only. Whereas in Australia, you have, have a break away from the stable. You're still working every day because, you know, horses are racing, trialing, working.

Mark Newnham: 01:42

So you you feel as if you're you're at work anyway even if you're not in that location. So it was it was nice to have a break, but I was ready to come back to work.

Michael Cox: 01:54

It was, also Australia do not have a break. Wall to wall racing every day. Is it something you'd advocate for in in Australia? Some sort of off season? Or

Mark Newnham: 02:05

Oh, look. I think especially Sydney racing's concerned, it would be good if there was no racing in the metropolitan area, say through the month of June. Give the the tracks, the participants time to have a break. But if you still maintained city provincial and country racing, there's still an option for those, you know, horses, jockeys, trainers to, you know, have an income. But it would allow the choice then to to have a break if you needed one.

Michael Cox: 02:34

So Hong Kong was a place that you always wanted to to train. You were a regular visitor here. You rode in Macau or visited to Hong Kong. It's it's sometimes painted as a utopia for a train, as a perfect place, and I'm sure it is in some ways. Owners, right there on your doorstep, a lot of the bills and administrative stuff taken care of and and staffing.

Michael Cox: 02:57

After 1 year, what a lot of people come here though and don't succeed to the level they want. What is it that is challenging that is uniquely challenging about Hong Kong racing?

Mark Newnham: 03:07

Oh, look. I think your points, yes. It is, it's probably as close to as perfect a system as you can have as a trainer's concerned. But I'd say the challenges here are more of expectation of owners, the public, the press, you know, they, they expect you'd be able to turn their horse into something whether it may not be much at all, but that's that's the job of the trainer. And, you know, that part doesn't really bother me.

Mark Newnham: 03:41

Pressure of expectation. I expect myself to perform at a good level. So I would say that, you know, that's something that I place on myself anyway. I've got a good ability to ignore the the outside noise. I remember in the 1st couple of months I was here, and I stuck to a plan fairly rigidly on what I wanted to do.

Mark Newnham: 04:04

And, my secretary started mentioning some of the things that being said in the the the local the local Chinese press. And they weren't complimentary but I told her I didn't need to know. It didn't bother me. And I said, what could I do about it? The only the only way you can negate that is to have success.

Mark Newnham: 04:26

And what I needed to do was have time to adjust to the system here and how it works best and the horses I was presented to train. So, you know, in those first few months, you have a group of horses that have been rejected by other stables, really. So that's what you get to start with. And, you're expected to turn miracles with some of those horses. I can remember after we did start to get on a little bit of a roll with a couple of horses winning.

Mark Newnham: 04:59

The next thing that came along was that, he can't get a horse to win 2 races in a row. But these were horses that could never win 2 races in a row anywhere. So I'm not sure why they expected that I would be able to suddenly do it. And, yeah, these are horses that have been racing in the system here for 2 or 3 years and, you know, would win once in every 15 to 20 starts. But that's that's the sort of thing that, the local press, push upon you and they push upon the public.

Mark Newnham: 05:28

But, you know, the that that's all part of it. And, you know, it it's it's the same it's the same press and public that are clapping you when you win. And, you know, they'll be they'll be harsh in their criticism when you're not. But that that's that's part and parcel of Hong Kong.

Michael Cox: 05:47

You've said that this is a one way ticket for you that a lot of people come to Hong Kong and they think, well, I could go back. But you've adamant that, no. I wanna be in Hong Kong. So this is your life, and you're committed to it. In that way, I thought it'd be interesting to ask you some questions about looking back at at racing in New South Wales and Sydney, where you've been, which is huge prize money.

Michael Cox: 06:08

A lot there for trainers to not complain about. But if you could change 1 or 2 things about racing in New South Wales, what would it be?

Mark Newnham: 06:19

Oh, look. I think the availability of of stabling is is a major issue. The other is is the training of people. I think, you know, there there's a lot of money being splashed about, in prize money. And all the participants, me included, were major beneficiaries of that.

Mark Newnham: 06:40

So it's it's hard for people to speak up about things when they've had a major income boost. But look, the being a a Randwick boy since I was 15 and started in the stable center and have a long history of working there, it depresses me to see the state of the stabling at Randwick. And, you know, there's been 2 new grandstands built at Randwick in in the last few years, whereas the stabling hasn't been touched for 50 years. And it's in a it's in a very poor state and, you know, quite often it was embarrassing to take owners there that hadn't had horses trained at Randwick before when they see, you know, the brand new grandstands and and, the glitz and glamour of the Everest and and, and other new races. But, you know, to come and visit their horse in in, dilapidated stables, I don't think it's appropriate in, you know, in in in this age.

Mark Newnham: 07:47

And, yes, it does cost a lot of money to build stables. And, you know, during the recent parliamentary inquiry into the sale of Rose Hill, it did come up. And I think the quote was that to spend 40,000,000 on new stabling at Randwick was a would give a poor return, a poor rental return. But, you know, I see it as an investment in the industry. You need horses to race and you need horses to be stabled.

Mark Newnham: 08:18

You need horses to be stabled at Randwick. I mean, Randwick should be promote you know, should be promoted as the premier track in Australia and previously has been, and it should be treated as such. And, you know, for race clubs like the ATC are obviously cash strapped. Where they get that money is racing in New South Wales. And for them to make an investment in stabling at Randwick, I could see only shoring up a future for racing.

Mark Newnham: 08:46

And it does not make money for race clubs having training facilities, but they're a necessary part of the business, and that's how it should be treated.

Michael Cox: 08:56

Semi related, staffing, training of people. Staffing in Australia is a a massive concern. You've played your role as a noted, developer of talent as a trainer with your apprentices. Tell me just on staffing, the challenges of that in in Australia, like, where the where the challenges lie. I hear it a lot from trainers and it's been what been written about finding people appropriately trained people to work with horses.

Mark Newnham: 09:24

Yeah. Look. I I there's just not enough formal education for for young people to come into it and not enough promotion for them to come into racing. Racing is a great industry across a broad spectrum of employment. And there's new jobs in racing that weren't around when I started 15 or 16, no one had a racing manager and and jockey managers and, you know, so it's not just about being a stable hand.

Mark Newnham: 09:50

But you'll find those people now who are racing managers, jockey managers, and, you know, a lot of them even jobs on, Sky, presenters. They all started off working in stables. It gives you a connection with the horse and gives you an understanding of racing. So there needs to be some promotion of of racing as a career path. And also, from a parent's point of view, somewhere to say, I'm not just sending my son or daughter to go and pick up horse manure.

Mark Newnham: 10:23

There is actually some formal training coming with this and there is a career path beyond that. And not that there's anything wrong with that, like, there's guys still working in stables now that started at the same time as I did and are quite pleased with their lot in life. I think one of the misconceptions about racing is that they're poorly paid. If a trainer was only paying an award wage at Randwick, he would have 0 staff. I know, from our staff pretty much just basic level ground staff would be getting, 26, $27 an hour, which I think if they're going up and packing shelves at Coles, it's probably 18 to $20 or $22 an hour, I think it got up to.

Mark Newnham: 11:14

But and and with a lot more, I would say, enjoyment and job fulfillment than packing shelves. So, you know, I think that's a that's a great misconception about racing is that the pay is very poor. You know, what the hours, yes. You have to adjust to the hours, but, you know, there's you see it everyday, Sky Channel. The enjoyment of the strapper even leading in their horse that they've looked after at 4 AM every morning, wet, cold, warm, you know, every day of the week.

Mark Newnham: 11:50

That you don't see enough of that promoted to young people as you can do this and you know, lots of people who walk into a stable and start a job now have 0 horse experience. And it's left to the trainer then to provide that training which means you have to sacrifice a staff member to train that person for, you know, the next weeks, months until they get to a level where they can work independently. So, look there's a lot of good things that have happened in New South Wales Racing especially since Ricefields legislation and Racing New South Wales responsible for that and have done a great job in funding the industry. I just think that some of those funds could be used more appropriately.

Michael Cox: 12:37

I don't wanna miss this question because I think I did. Rosehill. You mentioned the Rosehill inquiry into the the potential sale of Rosehill. I might as well ask you why you're here. Where do you stand on it?

Michael Cox: 12:49

Is this a you've you've you've you're obviously an ardent follower. You watched The Inquiry?

Mark Newnham: 12:54

Yeah. I've watched quite a

Michael Cox: 12:55

few episodes. Pretty good television, actually.

Mark Newnham: 12:57

It was it was the it was the best look. It it should have been picked up on Netflix. It, you know, it it was much much better and much more enthralling than watching anything on, pay TV. That's for sure. But, look.

Mark Newnham: 13:12

It's unfortunate that it it it it came to that. I think, you know, racing should be better than airing their dirty laundry in a in a public forum. I don't think, you know, this I don't think the sale of Rosehill was ever much chance of getting off the ground. I'd be very surprised if it did. Looking at other states that have sold race courses, I don't think the sale of a race course has ever benefited the industry.

Mark Newnham: 13:39

So look, I I don't think it'll come about, but it did expose some of the issues that that are going on behind the scenes in racing in New South Wales. And look, like most things, I'm sure there's fault on both sides.

Michael Cox: 13:56

Just on your role as a as a trainer that took great pride in in developing apprentices and some some champions there with with Tyler Shiller, Robbie Dolan, and and you also had, Tom Sherry. You come from a great lineage of trainers that have produced apprentices. Theo Green through one of your bosses, Ron Quinton. What is it that you try to impart on apprentices and and even just young people in your stable that you thought was maybe passed on from Theo Green through Ron to you?

Mark Newnham: 14:30

Oh, look. I think if if if the person is prepared to to work and and listen and learn, I think it's the duty then of of the trainer to pass on any knowledge that they may have because, you know, I started I had to start somewhere as well. So, you know, just little things that only experience bring you is an easy way to manage young people. And whether they're a work rider, stable hand or your apprentice jockey, they all need some encouragement and and wise words at some stage. So, you know, it I made mistakes when I was their age and realize as a young man that they're gonna make mistakes.

Mark Newnham: 15:28

So you have to battle through those things as as you see fit and sometimes it's about giving them a kick in the pants and sometimes it's about, you know, giving them a hug and they might be 5 minutes apart too. So it's it's challenging for young people that are obviously successful, you know, as as jockeys with social media as prevalent as it is now. That, you know, by telling them not to look at it at all is, you know, it's it's that's a waste of time because you know they're going to. But I always tried to tell them that, you know, just try and keep it somewhere in the middle, you know. Don't don't get too far ahead of yourself when you're going when everything's going well, and don't get too down when when it's, when it's not because yeah.

Mark Newnham: 16:26

It's it's similar to, you know, a coach of a football team, you know. If if they're winning, the coach isn't that great. If they're losing, the coach isn't that bad, you know. And it's the same with it's the same with riding, you know. You're already a good jockey.

Mark Newnham: 16:41

If you've if you've reached a certain level in Sydney racing, you're already a good jockey. But, you know, you're going to have the ups and downs. It's not going to be, you know, one way traffic on the way up, you know. There's they're going to be dips in in form, injuries, suspensions, and, you know, you've got to learn to deal with all those things.

Michael Cox: 17:01

Tell us about your own career as a jockey. I I was witness to a lot of it. I was the racing writer at the Illawarra Mercury there for a long time, and you would be the allocated rider on a lot of Gai Waterhouse's horses that came down to Kembla Grange to break their maiden or or just get a win. Yeah. Tell me about your your career as a jockey.

Michael Cox: 17:21

You're actually a mature age apprentice. Right?

Mark Newnham: 17:24

Yeah. I didn't do it till, later on. I think it was probably I had my first role when I was 22, and I was the first one to do it actually. It used to be a finishing apprenticeship at 21. I've been working at Randwick since I was 15.

Mark Newnham: 17:39

I think when I started at the, limit weight was 49 kilos. I think at that stage, I was probably 51 or 52, so there wasn't any thought of becoming an apprentice jockey. And then look fast forward a few things, I I I was traveling foreman for, Bart Cummings at 19. You know, did that for a couple of years. I met my now wife Donna in Perth on one of those trips.

Mark Newnham: 18:06

And then when she eventually moved over to Sydney, my lifestyle improved no end. I was probably about 60 kilos at the time and, you know, living a young single man's lifestyle, you know, eating takeaway, drinking beer. So when I tidied up those, those habits, my weight gradually came down. And then it got down to a stage where I thought I I could give it a go. And it was a it was a bit of an itch that I needed to, you know, needed to scratch as they say.

Mark Newnham: 18:43

And, so I got I had a relatively successful apprenticeship, especially the last 2 years with Ron Quintin who had just started training. I was his 1st apprentice and one of his first employees. The final year, I ran 3rd beyond, I think, Corey Brown and Lenny Beasley. So 2 very good riders. It was a good year of apprentices.

Mark Newnham: 19:06

And then I was in that position where I was getting rides in town but not on anything any horses that could win. And I rode at a Kembla Grange meeting not long out of my apprenticeship where I rode 3 seconds for Randwick trainers all behind horses trained by Gai. And she had 3 different 3 different jockeys on them. So and she was really starting to get a bit of momentum then. This is sort of mid to late nineties.

Mark Newnham: 19:41

And she I went and found her on the Monday morning, asked her if I could ride some work for her. I hadn't had, any rides for her as an apprentice, and she always had her own. So and then it started from there. So that was I had my first ride for in 1996. And, the last ride I had in 2011 was for her, and it was a winner.

Mark Newnham: 20:03

And, look, it was and and I stayed there until 2016.

Michael Cox: 20:09

I wanna run through a few influential people in your life and maybe a bit of word association. The first word that comes to mind about them and something you learned from them. And I'll start with gay because we're we're talking about it, Gai Waterhouse.

Mark Newnham: 20:23

I'd say an eccentric genius, but attention to detail. She made you a better person.

Michael Cox: 20:31

I've heard some stories about her, like, really pretty unconventional methods when it comes to managing people, like giving jockeys that ride for her a book to read that she thinks that they could take a lot from. I think she sent Nash Rawiller to, NIDA acting school for a short course to see if she could improve his person personable, sort of way related to owners, potentially. Like, was there anything that she did for you that was particular in the way that she tried to shape you as a person?

Mark Newnham: 21:03

No. But one thing that, she did do, which I'm really grateful now is that I had a I had a fall one day at Hawkesbury on on, one of the horses, and I did quite a bit of damage to my shoulder. And it within, oh, I'd say a week to 10 days, she rang up. She said, oh, what are you doing? And I said, well, I can't do much.

Mark Newnham: 21:30

We've got palm in a sling. You know, it's gonna be a few months. You know, this is a, b, and c. And she said, oh, why don't you come to the track and give us a hand? And I said, well, what am I gonna do?

Mark Newnham: 21:41

And she said, well, we'll find you something to do. And for the next probably 4 or 5 months, I went to the track each morning. I couldn't drive the car for the first couple of months, so she had me picked up each morning. I went to the track and I, I watched and clocked the horses. It was a great learning curve from the other side, and it probably set the wheels in motion for for where I am now.

Michael Cox: 22:07

Okay. I'm gonna go to another trainer, Bart Cummings.

Mark Newnham: 22:10

Yeah. Well, that was, look, that was a great job for me, early in my working life where I got to travel around Australia, New Zealand. We had horses traveling everywhere at the time, late eighties, and got to handle some really, really high class horses. I don't think there's been a stable ever since that that I'd say at one time we probably had 8 or 9 group 1 horses in the stable, you know, horses like Campaign King, Beau Zam, Sky Chase, Tristianar, Gold Trump. They were all in the stable at that at the one time.

Mark Newnham: 22:47

And, you know, I got to handle those horses, travel with those horses, ride those horses. And, you know, I learned a lot and he placed a lot of responsibility on my shoulders. One of the first trips away I did was with Campaign King to Queensland for the, Doomben 10,000 and, and the Stradbroke, which he he won both those races. And he would come up every couple of weeks and we'd talk each day and that was before mobile phones. So your allocated time might have been, you know, 5 PM.

Mark Newnham: 23:19

And if if, you know, something went wrong in the morning, you weren't always able to contact him so you had to make decisions. And, you know, I was probably only 20 years of age at the time. So it it, it gave me a lot of responsibility but what it did is give me an insight into what makes a good horse and how to prepare a good horse.

Michael Cox: 23:43

On that, I'll jump right to a horse. And what word comes to mind, and what did you learn from Pierro?

Mark Newnham: 23:49

Champion is the the the word that comes to mind straight away. He's he's the best horse I've ever sat on and I was lucky enough to ride him work most of his career, and I got to ride him in a couple of barrier trials at the, during his last preparation. I hadn't ridden in a race, well, for 18 months, I don't think. I still maintained a jockey's license and rode a few trials while I was Gay's assistant. And Nash was coming back off an injury to an ankle.

Mark Newnham: 24:20

And we had had a couple of barrier issues with him in Melbourne the previous spring leading into the Caulfield Guineas and the Cox Plate. So it was imperative that they were on there going into the, the autumn, which was going to be his last preparation. And we're at the barriers one day with him and a whole another story, but I won't get into us. Anyway, we're having a few issues and there's a couple of other people involved that I probably didn't agree with her on on their involvement with the horse and it all got a bit frustrating. And then she said to me, why don't you ride him?

Mark Newnham: 25:02

And I did. And, with the help of Steve O'Halloran who who looked after him and and rode him, work a lot of the time as well. Got him through the barriers, and then it came to a trial day. And she said, I don't wanna put Nash on him yet because he still got this ankle issue. Are you able to ride him?

Mark Newnham: 25:21

So I got to ride him in a couple of barrier trials, which look. It was a great thrill for me, but, he was such a good horse, mentally, physically. He he just had everything you need in a champion horse.

Michael Cox: 25:37

Is there a defining characteristic that you find amongst some of those great horses that Bart had like a Beau Zam, Pierro? Obviously, they're all different physically. I mean, what what is it about a champion that sets him apart, do you think?

Mark Newnham: 25:53

The most common trait amongst those was great lungs. They could do a piece of work, and their recovery was so quick. You know? They could have a strong gallop. And by the time you turned around and walked 50 meters, it it was it was as if they'd, you know, trotted out to the middle.

Mark Newnham: 26:11

You know? So their lung capacity and, and recovery was just better than other horses. And, you know, then there's the little x factor that you can't put your finger on is the is their is their will to win. You know, Pierre, I could work with the best horse in the stable and beat him ahead and work with the slowest horse in the stable and beat him ahead. He just knew how to how to beat the opposition.

Michael Cox: 26:37

What about just with those, champion horses as well? Is there a particular way that you need to treat them differently as a trainer? Is there a challenge in training a better horse that isn't there with a lesser horse of lesser ability?

Mark Newnham: 26:51

Like like people, you've gotta you've gotta set them bigger challenges. So a horse of that calibre actually needs to be challenged more than an ordinary horse because the ordinary horse, you'll you'll you'll just blow his mind. You'll you'll you'll break him. But the good horse, you really have to give him a bit more to do because it's not hard work. You know, he finds he finds a gallop over a 1000 meters and running up 2 furlongs in 24, you know, a a stroll in the park.

Mark Newnham: 27:26

Whereas, you know, a horse that's getting ready for a maiden and, you know, and and that may be the the the climax of its career, he'll find that challenging. But, you know, a good horse, you've gotta you've gotta treat him as an elite athlete and and set the bar a bit higher.

Michael Cox: 27:44

Okay. I'm gonna go random name it. I just wanna pick a jockey. And I was doing some reading this morning, and I didn't realize. So what word for Hugh Bowman and what you've learned from watching him ride?

Mark Newnham: 27:59

Well, the the one word that comes to to mind with you is patience. You know, he's he's never flustered in a race. You never see you never see Hugh in trouble in a race. He's he's usually well in control of the situation. And I think that was evident, you know, when he was riding winks.

Mark Newnham: 28:19

I don't think anyone would have been under any more pressure leading into that final race, the Queen Elizabeth at Randwick than than Hugh Bowman. And he didn't blink. You know, he gave it the best ride. You know? Whether you needed to give her the best ride or not to win, he still gave it the best ride.

Mark Newnham: 28:36

And the way he handled the pressure of of that occasion, that pretty much sums up his career. You know? But when he did arrive at at Ron Quinton's, I was the, you know, leading jockey at Kembla and, you know, courtesy of Gai's horses traveling there for maidens all the time. But along came a young Hugh Bowman and, he'd probably ridden a 100 winners in the bush, but got a 3 kilo claim at Kembla which made him very popular and a much better jockey than myself and the other guys riding there. So after a few months of Huw riding, 3 4 winners each day, we're pleased to see the back end of him and, and see him start to ride in town and use his 3 kilo claim there.

Mark Newnham: 29:17

So, yeah, I remember mentioning it to to Ron one morning saying, mate, can you just push that kid into town now? He's ready. He's getting in my way.

Michael Cox: 29:27

The, the the last name I wanna put to you with the word association and and what you learn from him is your father, John Newnham.

Mark Newnham: 29:34

Yeah. I think, like, from dad, I learned a great love of sport in general. You know, our our weekends would be while I was still younger to be, you know, a bit of football or cricket on a Saturday morning, races in the afternoon, and then you'd you'd you'd be at someone's place on on a on a weekend generally having a barbecue and and, and watching the rugby league in the afternoon. And, you know, he would bring home all the he'd bring home a briefcase full of papers at night and, you know, I'd be straight to the racing section which, you know, we'd have the the sun and the mirror as the afternoon papers and we'd have the the Herald delivered in the morning. And I couldn't wait for him to get home on a Friday night.

Mark Newnham: 30:19

We'd have the Sportsman. I'd have the golden guide out of the sun, and, couldn't wait to have a look at the fields for the next day.

Michael Cox: 30:25

Just to explain it, your your father, John, was a newspaper man in the the great days of newspapers in Sydney when there was plenty of them, and they were doing very well, and he was a a sports editor of the Sydney Morning Herald at one time, I think. Yeah.

Mark Newnham: 30:38

Yeah. He was the sporting editor when I was quite young, and then, he moved into advertising. But, oh, look. He he, a a good friend of of the families when we used to go on family holidays with them was, Bill Whitaker. And so he actually gave me an introduction to Bobby Thomson who, that was the first job I had when I went to Randwick.

Mark Newnham: 31:00

And, but, dad, he he loved he loved all sports. And, you know, it was when it came time for me to, you know, leave home and and and go and work in the stables, you know, it probably looking back now and being a father now, it probably wasn't easy for mother and father to send their 15 year old son out the door to go and and work and live elsewhere. But, you know, they're, they obviously could see it was something I wanted to do. Mom's father had been a a a trainer and a jockey and, you know, when I was growing up, he ran a managed a small stud, at Orange for one of his owners. And so quite often in holiday time, we would go up there.

Mark Newnham: 31:50

And that was where I really got to have an association with horses 1 on 1, not just as a spectator. So look, I could see they could see it was something I was, you know, very keen to do. And, yeah, it it's it wouldn't have been an easy it wouldn't have been an easy decision for them to, you know, allow me to go and do it, but, oh, look. I think we're all pleased they did.

Michael Cox: 32:16

Do you would have been around a a a cast of of great characters there at the the race course if you followed your dad to work in any given given day. If he was working at the at the track, were you ever tempted did you ever think that you would become a a racing writer, commentator? Tell me about some of the people that you're around, and did they influence you?

Mark Newnham: 32:35

Yeah. Look. It was, it was certainly it it had crossed my mind. And in if I hadn't have gone down the path of of of going working in the stables, probably where I would have ended up. Mom's uncle was actually Bert Bryant, the, the great race caller in in, in Melbourne.

Mark Newnham: 32:54

And, couple of holidays, I went and spent time with them as well. And, he was a huge celebrity in Melbourne, not just as a race caller. He was he was when when race callers and and, you know, racing participants were celebrities. So it was certainly different being around him. But, you know, going to Randwick and and and Rosehill on a Saturday, the press room there used to be guys like Bert Lillye, you know, John Holloway, Keith Robbins.

Mark Newnham: 33:24

And, you know, I heard some language there that I didn't hear at home. So it, it it it probably prepared me for stable life pretty well, but it, it it was it was good fun because there was something going on all the time. And, you know, quite often, you know, they'd give me a little job to do, you know, be their runner to go and write down, you know, the it might be the the the futures markets in the, you know, Caulfield and Melbourne Cups. And if they're having a winning day, you know, they might slip you $2 or $5, which to a 13 or 14 year old was a good day. But I'd usually punt it as well and quite often came home, you know, with a little more than my pocket money.

Michael Cox: 34:06

Are you saying some people would say that that's the best of racing in terms of its, you know, place in the public consciousness. You mentioned Bert Bryant being a celebrity and and and and racing being a mainstream sport. I'm gonna finish with this question. And what what are your hopes for horse racing? It's a it's a industry of lived and bred and obviously a massive advocate as we heard before about people working in it.

Michael Cox: 34:30

What are your hopes for racing globally going forward?

Mark Newnham: 34:34

Look. I I think if if it's approached from the 2 most successful jurisdictions at the moment, Hong Kong and Japan, and they promote the horse. And that's the area that will grab the public's attention. Now promoting the participants but promoting the horse as as an athlete, as a superstar athlete. As you can see here coming up on Sunday, there's a retirement ceremony for Golden 60.

Mark Newnham: 35:07

Now that that should be encouraged. You see it in Japan a lot as well and that that gets people's attention. You know, we unfortunately, in in Australia, breeding seems to have overtaken racing. And a lot of those good horses are retired early to stud as colts, which, you know, and Pierro was certainly one of those. And and, you know, the commercial realities of that are valid.

Mark Newnham: 35:38

I mean, how can, you know, if a horse is standing at, you know, 60 or 80,000 and serving 200 mares, you can't win that on the track. But, from a racing purest point of view, you want to see those horses competing and you want them promoted. You know, I just don't think and the recent parliamentary inquiry, there's no point fighting amongst ourselves. I mean, there's enough opposition to racing without there being internal battles. And one thing that, came to light recently with that is that, Vicki Leonard who runs

Michael Cox: 36:18

Kick Collective.

Mark Newnham: 36:19

Yes. And I think she's doing an absolutely outstanding job in in promoting racing. And to her to have read recently where her press accreditation was taken away by the ATC is mind boggling. There's someone who is willingly promoting your sport and you're excluding them, like and and treating her like she's the enemy. She's she's actually fighting the battles of of welfare and for you.

Mark Newnham: 36:54

So why would you not embrace that?

Michael Cox: 36:57

Well, it's a it's a common ailment over the years with some jurisdiction. I thought that was a particularly petty decision, it would seem, on face value. But the other part of it is racing should welcome different views, especially but that that's the most mind boggling part of of that particular decision. That this is someone who is literally setting up a a group independently to advocate for for racing.

Mark Newnham: 37:29

Yeah. So look, to me, yeah, a very petty decision. But, you know, we don't have enough, collaboration of of what should be said, in opposition to people who have concerns over over horse welfare. Look, I know how well the horses are looked after, but I've worked in it my whole life. But my son who has no involvement in racing, he finds it hard on what to say to his friends as to, oh, jockeys whip horses and, you know, like, that's probably the most contentious issue there is.

Mark Newnham: 38:07

And there needs only to be one line that we all share with those things. And that and that is that it's it's not designed to hurt the horse. And I know from having my apprentices that I'd say at different stages of their careers, I told each of them that they were trying to hit the horse too hard. You don't want to hurt the horse. That's not the object of the exercise.

Mark Newnham: 38:34

The exercise is to actually encourage the horse to extend his stride. So, you know, we need to educate not only our riders but the public that this isn't this isn't a bad thing. What the the jockey is trying to do is is signal to the horse what he wants him to do. If you're running next to me and we're running at virtually top speed and I punch you in the stomach, you're not gonna go faster. But if I need to just slap you on the shoulder to get you to focus and and and and look forward and and keep up with me, it'll get your attention.

Mark Newnham: 39:14

And that's all you're trying to do with the horse.

Michael Cox: 39:17

You I'd run faster if you tap me on the backside.

Mark Newnham: 39:19

Well, you know, it's, but if I punched you in the stomach and tried to hurt you, you wouldn't. And that's the thing with you're not trying to hurt the horse. You you're only trying to get him to extend his stride. So what we need to do, and it has had its own natural evolution, is that jockeys, when I started, were all told and taught to ride like Mick Dittman and Greg Hall. And that's what was expected, and that's what was taught really.

Mark Newnham: 39:46

It wasn't until I went to Ron Quinton that he said, listen, mate, you don't need to be doing that. You you you're trying to help them, not not hurt them. But since then, your leading jockeys now, James McDonald, Joe Moreira, they're not heavy whip users. And that's all the kids modeling themselves on now and and rightly so. But that should be pointed out.

Mark Newnham: 40:10

And that's where, you know, money should be spent on the education of jockeys and young jockeys coming through is that this is what is expected of you and this is why. And if if you're confronted with questions on whip use, these are the most appropriate answers so that we've got we're all we're all singing from the same hung the same hymn sheet, you know.

Michael Cox: 40:38

The, one question I always ask whenever the whip issue come up, which it it has here, I ask horsemen and jockeys, is because there is some talk that the whip is such a problem for perception of of racing that we should just do away with it. And what it really comes down to then is a question of is the whip an instrument of safety as well as it is encouragement? Do you think it is unsafe for jockeys not to carry a whip in a race?

Mark Newnham: 41:06

Yes. Yeah. It it definitely unsafe for a jockey not to carry

Michael Cox: 41:12

with a race. Can you explain why?

Mark Newnham: 41:14

Because there's occasionally issues where you need to be able to use that as a as a as a help in a steering tool. But more so to signal to the horse as to when you need him to do things in a race that actually might save your life. Because there'll be different stages where you need the horse to respond quickly if a horse is shifting ground in front of you and you have to make up ground quickly to hold that spot. It's easy to say, oh, you can give up that spot.

Mark Newnham: 41:48

But if the horse is shifting in quickly, you'll end up on the back of his heels. So you need to be able to get that horse to respond and move forward quickly, and it might only be by a neck, half a length to hold that position. Because if the horse outside you is hanging in badly and shifting its ground, there can be sometimes the the guy on it may not be able to help you anymore, but you need to be able to kick up and hold that spot. And the easiest and quickest way to that is to give your horse a tap on the shoulder and and ask him to move forward. So, yes, it is a safety issue, and jockeys do need a whip in a race.

Michael Cox: 42:29

We might, just looking forward to the rest of this Hong Kong season. We're recording this, after the 4th meeting. Last question, your goals for this season, what do you what's your expectations? This is when you're looking back at the your 2nd season in Hong Kong, what would what would success look like?

Mark Newnham: 42:47

Obviously, to have more winners than I did last season, that's an obvious. I'm not one to really put a number on it, but, you know, I've got a better team of horses and more of them. So I'd be very disappointed if if I you know, we had 31 winners last year. So more than that is good. You know, more than 40 is very good.

Mark Newnham: 43:06

Any better than that's, you know, excellent. So, you know, that's that's achievable. And, you know, with I've got a good base of horses, owners, staff now and good systems in place. So there's no reason that can't that can't happen.

Michael Cox: 43:26

Alright. Good luck for the rest of the season. Thanks for joining us, Mark.

Mark Newnham: 43:29

Thank you. Anytime.

Michael Cox: 43:30

Thank you.