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Real News For Real New Mexicans.
Hey, y'all. Welcome back to the Chile Wire episode eight. It is Chile Wire Wednesday, and I am delighted to introduce my guest, Sam Ladue, city councilor out of Espanola. He's here to join me today for a good discussion. A lot of things happening in Espanola.
Abe Baldonado:Sam, thank you so much for coming along my friend into this podcast. So excited to have you. We've talked for a long time. We've talked politics. We've talked New Mexico.
Abe Baldonado:We are both nortenos who love our great state. Sam left the state, but we're not gonna hold that against him. He's back now, and he cares deeply about his community. And Sam, I just wanna give you a moment to introduce yourself to our followers and just share a little bit about yourself, who you are, what you do, and you know, some of your passions.
Sam Ledoux:Well, name is Sam Ledoux, and I'm from Espanola, New Mexico. I represent District 4, which is the Northeastern part of the city. It's the Ranchitos, Eliano, and Fairview communities specifically. And I am also an educator. I am a professor at Grand Canyon University.
Sam Ledoux:I'm also an adjunct professor at UNM Los Alamos as well as I work in the public schools and help with federal grants.
Abe Baldonado:Terrific. What do you teach in at the higher ed level, Sam?
Sam Ledoux:So at Grand Canyon University, I teach communications. We specifically focus on like nonprofit communication campaigns. Every now and then I teach a class on political communications.
Abe Baldonado:I was wondering.
Sam Ledoux:And then at UNM Los Alamos, I've taught the entry level US government course.
Abe Baldonado:Awesome. That's exciting, man. And I was hoping you're saying I'm teaching political science a little bit more, but We're both political science undergrads and you're also alumni of Highlands University, my alma mater. So we have that relationship there. Sam, lots of stuff happening in your neck of the woods right now.
Abe Baldonado:News broke out about some sexual harassment by the mayor there, John Ramon V Hill. Just wanna get your thoughts on the matter. Like, I I am shocked at what I've read in the newspaper. We'll probably go a little bit more into this, but this isn't the first accusation either in the first allegations that have come out against this mayor. But I thought it was really eye opening when he was quoted about what he said, you know, I get what I want.
Abe Baldonado:I'm the mayor, you know. And unfortunately, Sam, this is something that's too common in New Mexico, and and it's not common on one side or the other. I think it's just common in our politics. But would love to get your thoughts. I mean, you you all are dealing with this right now at city council.
Abe Baldonado:And so just curious to get your thoughts on this issue.
Sam Ledoux:Well, think you you hit the nail on the head. This speaks to a broader issue in New Mexico in general about the toleration of corruption.
Abe Baldonado:Mhmm.
Sam Ledoux:We have a very nasty habit of not stepping in when early when things first come out. I mean, if you're you're probably aware because it was statewide news, But just a couple months ago, he was throwing, you know, shopping carts into parking spaces.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. I I actually saw that on your Facebook, but and and this was something that really kind of fell off the radar. It was, you know, a quick news story and then no one paid attention to it again. And it was just like, okay, it's I don't know. Is it like, oh, it's Espanola.
Abe Baldonado:That's normal. Kind of like how we are with homeless issues here in Albuquerque. I think people have just become tolerant of the issue that they're like, it is what it is.
Sam Ledoux:I do think people have become a bit nose blind to the corruption. I mean, unfortunately, it's one of the things that our city government and county government are known for is just how a deep seated level of corruption, inappropriate behavior by elected officials. I could, you know, list a laundry list of names of things that have happened in my community, but everyone pretty much already knows. But the reality is is that what we have a bad habit of doing in New Mexico is a lot of these signs are early. Right?
Sam Ledoux:Mhmm. Like, let's let's use the mayor as an example. When he was a city councilor, there were already conspiracy investigations into him. The police questioned him about using fake Facebook accounts to expose people's homes. You know, he was accused of that.
Sam Ledoux:And then he got
Abe Baldonado:What a was his purpose for exposing people's homes?
Sam Ledoux:It was obviously like targeted you know, we don't know if it was him. Mhmm. But whoever was running these face face these face Facebook accounts were putting up homes of people of city councilors, of pictures of their homes saying this is where they live, they're corrupt, and then putting up pictures of, you know, city employees like the planning and zoning director. It seemed all weirdly targeted around that and the police And it was like, this is somebody who has deep intimate knowledge of the city and somebody who obviously didn't like mayor Sanchez at the time. And, you know, the police questioned him about that because of the threats the veiled threats made to people's homes.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. And this mayor, correct me if I'm wrong, just narrowly beat Mayor Javier Sanchez. Right? I mean, was a very close race.
Sam Ledoux:Right. It was about the about like 80 votes. It was one of the lowest turnouts in mayoral espanol history.
Abe Baldonado:So do you think that's what happens when we have low voter voter turnout and we don't have people showing up and getting involved in these elections? Sometimes we're left with probably some of the people that maybe are and, you know, I agree with you. And we've had this conversation off, you know, air. But, you know, I believe that most people when they go into public service are doing it for the right reasons. Right.
Abe Baldonado:Unfortunately, I think there are a large number that do it for the wrong reasons. And I think there's proof of that well before they're even elected because you see the personalities, you see the egos, you hear the comments of what they say and how they carry themselves. But I think a lot of times voters are either misled or maybe not given enough information to know who they're voting for.
Sam Ledoux:Right. I mean, there there's always there's always signs before something bad happens. And the fact is it's like the first the first hour that the man was elected, you know, Javier Sanchez went to go shake his hand and this is in the paper and he slapped it in ways. Don't talk to me and then a little like outburst happened and that should have been a warning sign right there that he could he was a sore winner. Yeah.
Sam Ledoux:And that we were gonna be in for a long four years and it's been a long four years. Yeah. I mean right out the gate he had troubles getting a city manager when he finally did. They eventually had to he eventually fired them and there was questions about the legality of how he fired them. It got, you know, brought into a huge scandal.
Sam Ledoux:Counselor Dennis Tim Salazar and counselor Justin Salazar Torres asked him to resign over it. The city manager is still in a lawsuit with the city over it. Then after that, he brought in a new city manager and then he was accused of sexual harassment the first time. Then a couple months later, he was accused of sexual harassment again. Then there was the shopping cart incident.
Sam Ledoux:Now there's sexual assault. And then throughout this entire time, there were always these talks about workplace. Like, a lot of the city employees would come to me and say, he's just out of control. Yeah. He's yelling and screaming at us.
Sam Ledoux:He's telling us all of these things. He's saying we don't know how to do our jobs. And, you know, the morale at the city of Espanola has just declined rapidly amongst our employees. And he's fairly young, but
Abe Baldonado:I I I don't think that has anything to do with it. I think, you know, or or you're taught professionalism throughout the way. And, you know, even if you're in your late twenties, I I think you should know how to carry yourself. And in a role like that, you're a leader and you should know how to carry yourself as a leader. But is it arrogance?
Abe Baldonado:Is what is it that, you know, do you as a leader, you have these outbursts with your staff and the folks that you technically work on behalf for. Right? Yeah. They they I guess they work for you as as the mayor, but they they are public employees. But they're there to work on behalf of the city of Espanola.
Abe Baldonado:So, you know, to to have outbursts like that with the staff who are are there to help lead and help make you look good, right? They're the folks that are in the trenches, right? Our government employees oftentimes are the ones doing the day to day work, they make the mayor look good, they make the city council look good, they're the ones doing the work and to, you know, treat them that way that way. I it just shocks me when I hear stuff like that, because I believe we're better than that as a state, but it's also unfortunate when you hear these things. And also, there was another incident at a casino one night where he used the police as well, right, to his benefit.
Sam Ledoux:It was actually at Northern New Mexico College. Basically, the incident was was one of our residents called the city manager's girlfriend an inappropriate word, and then he decided to call the police and to that to intervene. And supposedly, the mayor was also involved. There was a whole video recording of of it, and it's like, this is just embarrassing.
Abe Baldonado:It does sounds like a telenovela, man. It's just like is. Orteno Movidas.
Sam Ledoux:And, you know, and then the one of the police officers said, this is all Espanola Movidas. And, you know, the reality is is that it hurts the city because we can't even get basic work done. We have a crime crisis in Espanola. I mean, you open up the Rio Grande sun to the police blotter and you read all the stuff that's going on every week in the city. You look at the, you know, Chief Garcia has posted the stats of the amount of crimes in the city and for a town of 10,000 people, it is staggering.
Sam Ledoux:And what are we doing? We're trying to misuse our limited law enforcement resources to defend your girlfriend, you know, or to call, you know, your political allies out. I mean, there there's so much that we're focusing on. Like, if I had to hear the word social media because a lot of people are now taking to Facebook. One of the great things of our time is that technology has allowed people to be more democratic in the sense that they can actually call their elected officials out.
Sam Ledoux:It's an equalizer in that way. You no longer have to rely solely on the news media to voice your discomfort with the government. And a lot of people have done that. There's this group Espanola Voices speak out, Speak up. And they it's a lot of concerned citizens who have brought, you know, forth issues that they've had with the V Hill administration.
Sam Ledoux:And, know, this has caused him a lot of discomfort. Yeah. Throughout my entire time on the city council, the amount of times I've had to hear the word Facebook and social media and just complaints about this group. And it's like, shouldn't you be focusing on doing your job? Yeah.
Sam Ledoux:Like, it to me, it's been it's it seems like the mayor is spending more time on Facebook than he is trying to get businesses to come to our city. Yeah. Trying to, you know, hire more police officers, make sure that our streets are clean. I mean, there's trash everywhere. And but instead, he's focused on how he looks on Facebook.
Sam Ledoux:Yeah. And that's why I've used Facebook as a tool too because it seems to be the only thing he pays attention to.
Abe Baldonado:Well, and it's always good to inform your constituents as well. Right? Exactly. Inform your friends, your family. It's a good resource for that.
Abe Baldonado:And it's great to hear that there are folks getting involved. Are they getting involved enough, though? Are we seeing folks that are cause I think it's great. I I think it's terrific when I hear that people are calling out their elected officials. That is great to me because that is true accountability because that means people are paying attention now.
Abe Baldonado:People are watching. They're holding you accountable for what you do, you say, and hopefully they hold you responsible come election time as well. Yeah. And I know a lot of people who the people who are in it for the wrong reasons do not like responsibility and accountability. They do not like it.
Abe Baldonado:And I think we see that on all aspects, education, crime, all those, the folks who do not want to be held responsible or accountability kind of just take their hands off and be like, no, how dare you don't don't don't criticize me for the lack of work that I'm doing. But are we seeing it transition now to those same folks who are getting involved? Are they voting? Are they getting involved in the election process now to so we can see that shift?
Sam Ledoux:I think there's been a little shift. But the problem also when you have just negative snooze is you get a little nihilistic. Mhmm. And sometimes people feel completely disconnected with the process. A lot of people are like, oh, it's never gonna change.
Abe Baldonado:Why I can't make a change.
Sam Ledoux:Yeah. I can't do anything. But I do think that it is starting to shift the needle. Like, for a long time, this mayor, he took livestreams off where no one could see the city council meetings unless you were there in person or you listened to Andrade O'Kelise, and that changed. Now, we brought the live streams back after constant public pressure for over
Abe Baldonado:a year. That raises a big alert for me. That's problematic for the fact that we are leaving people out of the democratic process, right? Yeah. Of Being able to be heard, have a public opinion or provide public comment.
Abe Baldonado:I think a couple of times he's tried to weed out public comment on particular issues. I think you've brought that up a couple of times.
Sam Ledoux:Oh, yeah. I mean, it first started. He tried to introduce this resolution to limit what people could say. And, like, the resolution was like, you can't say anything offensive about counselors or the mayor. You can't, say anything blasphemous.
Sam Ledoux:And I'm like, excuse me. When did the city of Espanola City Hall become my church and could tell me what is and where is not blasphemous? Yeah. I mean, who are they to tell people what they could say? And this is all because there is an activist that goes in there and he curses and all that stuff.
Sam Ledoux:But, you know, if they would have just ignored him, he probably would have gone away. But instead, they've they tried to have the police talk to him. They call him out. They scream at him. They mention him.
Sam Ledoux:And for a while when they took the live streams off, guess what he did? He brought a camera into the city hall and started live streaming himself. Mhmm. And that tells you everything you need to know. Right?
Sam Ledoux:We gave him all kinds of attention and then we wonder why he's not going away.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. So Sam, what happens next? I I know I I've seen the newspaper. You all had called a special session, a special meeting for Monday. That didn't end up happening because y'all were potentially looking at a resolution to move into the local election act, which means it would have extended your terms as a city council, but also the mayor, which could potentially be problematic because now he would have a longer term.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. And so I know that meeting got pushed back, but I'm aware you all are meeting tonight as well. And do we see is this mayor going to resign?
Sam Ledoux:I really hope he does. I've called for his resignation because whether he's innocent or guilty, he can't run the city anymore. We have had no city manager since we took a settlement agreement for over a month. There's currently no interim city manager And I currently, at the moment, unless there's a lot of new evidence brought, don't feel comfortable voting for the pick of his I mean, his pick for interim city manager because she's directly involved in this, you know, situation that we're currently in. And who knows when we're gonna have someone who's actually in charge of the city.
Sam Ledoux:Yeah. Because the way it works in Espanola is that the mayor is a ceremonial position. The mayor has no direct authority to dictate things to city employees.
Abe Baldonado:Which I think has been argued with you. Right? I think you've made that comment before and it really hits a nerve with someone who say, no, I have power. But I think I've seen some of that as well where he's tried to correct you and say, oh, no. I'm the mayor.
Abe Baldonado:I'm I'm the man. Yeah. Right? And I think it's in the comments in the newspaper where he he has also shown that same type of personality. But I think you have to resign.
Abe Baldonado:Right? Because Yeah. One thing is allegations and, okay, due process. I get that. And he still is awarded his due process in this.
Abe Baldonado:But people have corroborated this. You know, a city councilor witnessed this. Unfortunate the former city manager witnessed this, but they didn't report it, which to me is shocking. I'm like, you all saw this, didn't report it, but are now confirming, yeah, there was some misbehavior and misconduct and harassment that we saw, but we're only saying it because now it's out in the public eye. But we would have remained silent had it not been brought to the public.
Sam Ledoux:Oh, well, once again, you know, fish don't know they're wet and the nose blind issue. People people get so tolerant of misconduct, bad behavior, corruption that it's hard for them to really speak out against it because they've just become so used to it. Mhmm. And it really begs the question. Right?
Sam Ledoux:How can things move forward when people are so used to this? The reality is, and I was taught this by one of my mentors, the former Santa Fe County Chair of the Republican party, Orlando Baca. He always used to tell me, Sam, those who show up decide. Mhmm. I mean, let's be honest.
Sam Ledoux:I was elected by 30 votes. 30 votes was a difference between me and someone who was at the time allied with the mayor. I think he's no longer allied with the mayor, but at the time he was. And that was a difference is that those 30 people showing up on election day and voting. And that's the difference that you're gonna have to make.
Sam Ledoux:You're gonna have to go out there and say it's worth spending the time. It's worth going to a city council meeting. It's worth making a Facebook post. It's worth running for office. I mean and that's another issue is that usually these people don't have anyone stand up to them.
Sam Ledoux:Right. In the last city election, there were four councilors up for election. Only two were challenged. That means 50% of the races were uncontested.
Abe Baldonado:Wow. I mean, we see that even at the state level, national level, you know, especially on the progressive side. There's folks not challenging them and they're remaining in there. If anything, the progressives are the ones challenging your more moderate centrist folks and even your conservatives and they're winning, but we're not doing the same. You know, the folks that are on the common sense lens.
Abe Baldonado:We we I don't know if we have accepted defeat. I hope we haven't because I don't think we're defeated. Have we lost in the short term? Absolutely. But do I believe we could take it back?
Abe Baldonado:Absolutely. But like you said, it's gonna take a lot of hard work. You have to get out there. You have to have those conversations. You need to get involved in your city council, your school board, whatever it may be.
Abe Baldonado:You have to go speak your mind because if you don't, chances are you're not getting involved in the election process either.
Sam Ledoux:Yeah. And that's and that's the biggest issue. Right? I mean, I think on my ballot, my last general election ballot, there were three contested races. Like, it was a president, congress, and then one state rep seat.
Sam Ledoux:Every other race oh, and then the senate, so four.
Abe Baldonado:Four. You also did something a lot of folks never believed a Republican could win in Rio Reba County and you went and did it in the city council, which is a celebration that should be celebrated because I know you know, you did it at grassroots, you know, because I think even we had talked when you were about to run that it was gonna be an uphill battle because Republicans typically don't win, but you have. And I think one of the things that I saw was you took the time to meet with people and you you kinda did things that we don't see anymore. You know, I've always said that as a public official, you are kind of like an educator. It's your job to educate and inform your constituents because they oftentimes don't understand everything in the public policy perspective.
Abe Baldonado:And so if you take a vote on something, I'd look at it as if you're a statesman or woman, it's your duty to educate your constituents why you voted yes or no on a particular issue. Because I think rhetoric is usually there about why something's bad, why something's good. But what's the reality and what's the context of the policy? How does it impact your constituents? And so when people take hard votes, you know, I wish they would get back out into their communities more and say, hey, I voted no on this or I voted yes on this because this is how it would have impacted you.
Abe Baldonado:And we don't see that anymore, but I saw that you still do it even now after you're elected. You do your coffees with a counselor and so you meet up and you let people come by and just have a conversation with you. And I think that's something that a lot of people don't feel that they have opportunities to do with their elected officials is to meet them and have a personable conversation.
Sam Ledoux:Well, corruption thrives in darkness. Right? Mhmm. Corruption is is best when you don't know know about it. When there's a city government that doesn't like having public meetings, doesn't like having public comment, doesn't want to be on the Internet, limits access, doesn't really want people to talk before or after the meetings and tries to like silo itself off from the public, that should tell you there's some stuff going on.
Sam Ledoux:Right. I try to be as open and transparent as possible. Like you said, if you wanna talk to me, if you don't like what I do, you could tell me to my face right at McDonald's. Yeah. You know?
Sam Ledoux:Or I'm always available online. I don't delete or censor comments like the mayor has been accused of doing. I don't, you know, try to silence anyone. I think it's healthy for a democracy.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah, dialogue is good.
Sam Ledoux:Exactly. The more dialogue the better and, you know, sure there's some negative voices sometimes, but often people who care will drown that out if But you let the issue is, is that politicians have become so afraid to even confront people who disagree with them that it's making them worse politicians in my opinion. Like for instance, I've been in a couple of town halls recently and and it's not just I'm not gonna single out one politician, but it's been a couple of them where they prescreen their questions. They they ask you to write down on a piece of paper your question and and they have their staff look through them and then they they go and they pick them out. And this is becoming the new norm at town And I'm like, that's not a town hall.
Sam Ledoux:A town hall is You take the hard raise questions. Your hand. You, whoever you are, ask me a question. That is a real town hall. It's not a town hall to have pre written discussions and you get to basically pick what topics you wanna
Abe Baldonado:talk about. That to me just shows they're afraid because either they're hiding something or they don't wanna say the wrong thing and they're trying to protect that elected official from saying something that maybe they shouldn't say or what whatever it
Sam Ledoux:may
Abe Baldonado:be. But that doesn't surprise me because I think we've seen that that a lot of the elected officials now are sticking to the script. Mhmm.
Sam Ledoux:Yeah. They don't they they wanna talk about what they wanna talk about instead of servicing Mhmm. The needs and concerns of their constituents.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. Well, when we elect people, we expect them to take on the hard issues.
Sam Ledoux:Yeah.
Abe Baldonado:Have the hard conversations. That's what we elected you for, not to take the softball questions and the softball answers. We want you to take on the real problems. And you know, unfortunately, I've seen it even now, with the Hermits Peak Half Canyon fire. You know, there's a lot of lip service from the congressional delegation saying, we're doing everything possible.
Abe Baldonado:No. You're not. They haven't done anything. I mean, there has not really been any efforts made to make people whole who have suffered and have lost everything or have lost a significant amount of their livelihoods with their ranches, whatever it may be. And it's still an uphill battle.
Abe Baldonado:And
Sam Ledoux:I mean, when you're in city like, when I'm in city well, I tell them that this all the time. I need to talk about homelessness.
Abe Baldonado:Mhmm.
Sam Ledoux:I need to talk about drug addiction. I need to talk about crime because that's the things that people are concerned about. We can sure. We can have, you know, discussions about the beauty of our culture. Yeah.
Sam Ledoux:We can do have discussions about all the amazing projects being done throughout the city. But ultimately, that should be a job for our tourism Right. You know, campaigns. That should be a job for, you know, the chamber of commerce. It's not a job for the city government.
Sam Ledoux:The city government needs to tackle the hard issues.
Abe Baldonado:Right. Well, and I think it's also an insult to the beauty of our culture, especially Hispanic culture when you have people in the streets, when you have them hooked on drugs, and all we do is give band aid fixes to stuff and not really tackling the real problems.
Sam Ledoux:Yeah. Well, you know, I get frustrated because you often hear these Norteno politicians. It's like this everywhere. They just don't talk about it as much. Oh, no.
Sam Ledoux:Or or my favorite one is like, there was one politician who they asked him about the drug problems and he's like, well, it's actually not people in Espanola that are overdosing. It's people from the surrounding communities that come into the city and it increases our numbers. And I'm like, who cares where they live? Right. Like it's happening in our It's still happening here.
Sam Ledoux:And it's like, and we have to deal with the consequences of it.
Abe Baldonado:Well, in Espanola is surrounded by many communities and a lot of people, even if you're from Medanales or you're from Abiquiu, you know, my family's from El Rito. Most of them, they'll tell you from Espanola because it's the the largest city nearby. And to them, they feel like they're from Espanola. So Espanola's problems are their problems even though they live 20 miles away from Espanola. They still feel like, the problems in Espanola still impact me because I go there to get my groceries.
Abe Baldonado:I go to Walmart. I go to Walgreens. And, you know, I see these folks on the street who are either homeless or suffering from drug addiction. So it impacts them.
Sam Ledoux:Yeah. I mean I had this conversation with our finance director the other day in a council meeting. He was like, well, yeah, there's been a significant drop off from GRT which is you know, New Mexico's somewhat equivalent to a sales tax where cities get almost all their money from. And he's like, but that's be that's gonna be made up by the fact that people are buying from Amazon now that the state is getting a tax from Amazon. And I'm like, sir, that's not a good answer because if you're from Abiquiu or El Rito and you buy from Amazon, that sales tax money does not go to Espanola.
Sam Ledoux:It goes to Rio Ribba County.
Abe Baldonado:Right.
Sam Ledoux:And that's the kind of small thinking that they have there at City Hall that I'm trying to address is like, if we don't get our crime problem under control, more and more businesses are gonna close. GameStop just closed. Del Taco just closed. Shoe Depot closed, you know, and it just goes on and on and on. Like, there hasn't been a new like, there's been one new business opened in Espanola just recently.
Sam Ledoux:It was Soapapia Cafe, but businesses aren't very breaking down the door in Espanola.
Abe Baldonado:Well, I'll tell you even driving through to visit my family, the Walgreens always seem to be having a situation. There's always cops there when I've passed by, whether it's robbery or who knows what else, but I've even just seen that problem where I see a window boarded up because someone broke it or did something. It's very unfortunate. And and, Sam, you may agree or disagree with me, and I'm gonna go down a little bit of a rabbit hole here, but I've always said Rio Reba has some fantastic opportunities for prosperity. And when people ask me, well, from what?
Abe Baldonado:I say mineral rights. There's a lot of mineral rights and opportunities there that, you know but unfortunately, people don't like the energy industry in Rariba County. I think some people have grown to start understanding what energy can bring to a community and the prosperity that comes with it. And I've had conversations with folks from Maribah, but I think there's some opportunities there to lease out some mineral rights and, you know, across the the county that can actually lift people up from even just the royalties. I mean, in some instances, we've seen royalties go up to $30,000 a month for some folks that lease out their mineral rights.
Abe Baldonado:It's it's shocking. So I always tell people, I'm like, Espanol, Ria Riba County is missing out on a great opportunity. And I think the Hicadilla nation has figured that out. They do a lot of oil and gas extraction. And I know they're looking at some other energy opportunities as well.
Abe Baldonado:But I think there's opportunities there too to work with the community to understand that, hey, y'all are sitting on a gold mine here and can change the trajectory of your financial health for generations. You just have to be open to it.
Sam Ledoux:Well, you're right. There is a lot of discussion about that. Just recently, we had to talk about GM Motion, which is a mining company in in the city of Espanola. And, you know, there were city councilors who were thinking about shutting it down that would have impacted a ton of jobs, ton of money, a ton of opportunity within the city. I know that we also have, you know, Cook's Espanola, Gravel Transit.
Sam Ledoux:There's a lot of opportunities available in Rio Reba County for minerals and there's also there's tons of opportunities in general. We're located in a prime location. We're right between Aspen we're right between Santa Fe and Taos.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah.
Sam Ledoux:There's so much opportunity that we could build upon just the location itself. But often politicians kind of, you know, kick the can down the road because they see us more as a bedroom community. People don't work in Espanola. They sleep in Espanola and they go work in Santa Fe and Los Alamos. Yeah.
Sam Ledoux:That's often how the city has been treated because we've let ourselves be treated that way and we failed to chart our own destiny. And that is really hurting us in the long run because now for the first time, the census data came out, 95 people have left Espanol. We're 95 people smaller. And we had, like, basically a static population growth from 2010 to 2020. I think we had, like, an increase of around 36 people.
Abe Baldonado:Oh,
Sam Ledoux:wow. So we're actually starting to lose population. This is the first time since World War II and the Great Depression that we were losing population.
Abe Baldonado:I'm guessing you're losing probably Rio Rancho
Sam Ledoux:Santa Fe, Albuquerque. Yeah. Like, you know, and then Powacas getting more developed. Like, the reality is is that we're losing people. We don't have any housing.
Sam Ledoux:I mean, I think the average home in Espanol is the lowest you're gonna find is gonna be around $300,000 and that means you're gonna have to work in Santa Fe or Los Alamos, almost guaranteed because there's very few jobs in the city of Espanola that you're gonna find that can pay you the money to pay that kind of mortgage. We have fought development. I mean, we're I'm trying hard. There's a Silky Road in Espanola that we wanna develop, but it keeps hitting roadblocks because it's not the exact type of development some of the city councilors want. And it's like, we would be lucky to have any development at this point.
Abe Baldonado:Right. Well, and there's opportunity there with the amount of jobs that Lionel has open right now that they're recruiting for to get people to move there. In Espanola is a beautiful valley that can provide a great place for people to afford to live and live close to Los Alamos. So without Los Alamos prices, because I know Los Alamos housing prices are very high. But, you know, Espanola provides the happy medium and you have everything you need there as far as grocery shopping, whatever it may be.
Abe Baldonado:So it's unfortunate that they're fighting that that economic growth. Sam, getting close to wrapping up here, but I just want to give you a minute to share your vision for Espanola and New Mexico. You know, we're two nortenos that oftentimes have a lot of political discussions and talking about the future of our state. And, you know, even over lunch today, we talked about, you know, how do we get people more involved? How how do we get people to vote?
Abe Baldonado:Because, you know, we've talked about we have low voter turnout. We have a lot of people registered to vote, but only a fraction of those people vote. And we've talked about that, you know, a lot of people sometimes just don't feel like their voice will be heard or will make a difference. And so I just wanna hear your vision for not only Espanola, but New Mexico.
Sam Ledoux:Well, I think that things like the Chili Wire are very good because we're getting information out there that most people don't ordinarily hear. You know, unfortunately, you know, I'm I'm a old legacy media guy. I used to work for the Santa Fe, New Mexican, the Los Alamos Monitor.
Abe Baldonado:See, like, billboards, newspapers, radio.
Sam Ledoux:So I I know how I know how that is. And unfortunately, lot of those institutions are just not what they used to be. And these we need to build new institutions to inform the voters. Mhmm. We need to push for more information to be out there and I'm really hopeful that the Internet is instructive in that.
Sam Ledoux:And I think as you know New Mexico's technological age comes to a forehead, we're finally starting to see outlets like the Chili Wire, outlets like the New Mexico Sun, and new media institutions being formed so that voice gets out there. Yeah. That it's not just the same good old boys who control all the information, all the media, and all the, you know, institutions.
Abe Baldonado:Well, and also direction. A lot of it oftentimes, Santa Fe, New Mexican, you can tell they're appealing to their base. Right? So they may not give you the whole story. Right?
Abe Baldonado:They give you the left story. Leave out the right story from the right or the middle. And I think you're right. I think outlets like the New Mexico Sun, the Chili Wire, other podcasts that are happening across our state are going to be a great vehicle as long as they're real and they're honest. And think that's the most important thing.
Abe Baldonado:And I think a lot of people have felt that they're not getting the real entire story when they hear about stuff. And so I I can assure you that even in Espanola with the mayor, there's probably some folks saying this is pretty biased against the mayor. Did he really do this? Did is this a hit piece on him and just trying to get him out? Some folks may even come in and say, well, Sam just wants him to resign and and quit.
Abe Baldonado:And and that's not the reality. The reality is there's a long trail of history that shows this mayor has had misconduct, sexual harassment, and it's all coming to a head. And but a lot of people don't know about it. Like you said, you know, a story was covered just very shortly about the shopping cart incident and then it just disappeared. And and we acted like it never happened again.
Abe Baldonado:And why are we doing that?
Sam Ledoux:Well, one reason I think that online media is going to be a good solution is that you're not limited by the amount of space on a page. You know, I think that was one of the biggest problems I had as a newspaper writer is trying to create a sufficient story with the limited availability that I had Yeah. On the page. Had the limited availability on a column. And then the fact that you have to count on the reader to read the first column and then flip over like six pages and read the rest of the story.
Sam Ledoux:Right.
Abe Baldonado:So I'll bet I mean, you're limited to five, maybe 600 words. Exactly. And so here's a good opportunity for a podcast, we could talk for thirty forty minutes about a particular issue or many issues and address it and have a real honest conversation. And so
Sam Ledoux:So And I think and I think it's up to citizens like us to put ourselves out there and to get the information out there. And I think that's when we're gonna start to see some real breakthroughs.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah.
Sam Ledoux:Because, you know, I don't always agree with the folks in the Espanola Speak Up Facebook page, but if it wasn't for them, a lot of this stuff wouldn't be talked about.
Abe Baldonado:Right.
Sam Ledoux:It took a couple of, you know, really motivated citizens to get their voice out there. And then things started to change.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. I, you know, I respect anyone who speaks up or gets involved regardless what side. I mean, long as you're passionate about it. But what I respect more are the people who actually want to have real dialogue. That, you know, some of your activists are just activists for just making a scene out of things.
Abe Baldonado:But if you're an activist who just wants to have a real conversation, I'm happy to have a conversation with you. You may disagree. But if you're willing to sit across from me and have a conversation, I'm good with that. I I respect that. And, you know, we may not agree.
Abe Baldonado:And we will probably find out in that discussion, we probably want the same outcome. We just have different ideas of how to get there. Exactly. And that's something that we've talked about a lot about on the Chile Wire and that we found is that we're more alike than we are different. It's just having that conversation.
Abe Baldonado:The folks who really want to see good change are usually up for having conversations. It's the folks who just wanna make a show out of something, but just tell you, scream at you that you're wrong. That those are the folks that usually just wanna create a disturbance instead. And so city councilor Sam Ladue, I appreciate you. Y'all didn't notice, he he gave a shout out to the Chili Wire.
Abe Baldonado:I promise you, I didn't pay him to say that. So I just wanna assure you that was authentic. I didn't pay him, but I appreciate you, my friend.
Sam Ledoux:And Yeah.
Abe Baldonado:Thank you so much for coming on the Chile Wire. Thank you. We'll see you next time. Well, that wraps up the Chile Wire Wednesday for this week. Tune in next time for
Sam Ledoux:our next
Abe Baldonado:Chile Wire.