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We are Alyssa and Bri, two sisters who believe God wants more for women than we've been taught. Join us as we dive into the intersection of faith and feminism, learning together as we go.
To the We Are More Pod cast. My name is Alyssa. And my name is Bree. We're two sisters passionate about all things faith and feminism. We believe
Speaker 2:that Jesus trusted, respected, and encouraged women to teach and preach his word. And apparently, that's controversial. Get comfy.
Speaker 1:Have you taken your turkey out of the freezer yet? Is it time? If you haven't, you're in big trouble. Uh-oh. Now there's plenty of wild turkeys.
Speaker 1:And as per our family tradition, the newest member of the family must go hunt down a wild turkey to feed the family. Yes. Obviously, that's our family tradition. And have you done that yet?
Speaker 2:There was one time so back in the day, like, around 2020 era, we did grocery delivery shopping for a little while. Mhmm. And I remember very distinctly shopping, like, two days before Thanksgiving. And this woman on her list has a frozen 20 pound turkey.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. And I messaged her. I was like, hey. So I don't know if you know this, but this will not thaw
Speaker 2:in time. Yeah. If you need it for later, that's fine. But just so you know, they also have fresh turkeys. I can get you one
Speaker 1:of those. And she texted me back. She was like,
Speaker 2:thank you so much. This is my
Speaker 1:first time ever doing this. You saved our Thanksgiving. I just want people to be more informed. So, like, before you order a giant turkey, maybe go on ChetchyBT or Google and just be like, what are the basic things I need to go know for hosting Thanksgiving? And maybe that's one of them.
Speaker 2:Maybe it is. Don't follow the instructions on the Santa Claus.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:That man absolutely burned a turkey. Yep. He had to maybe have fire extinguishers on hand.
Speaker 1:Yep. And also, don't bother making fresh cranberry sauce just by the stuff in the can.
Speaker 2:Oh. But I like the fresh stuff.
Speaker 1:It's good. I like cranberry relish. That's different.
Speaker 2:And you also like cranberry relish.
Speaker 1:That's true.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Actually, I asked ChatGPT. So every year, my daughter and I, we make a pie. We donate a pie
Speaker 1:to the library. We buy a
Speaker 2:pie from the library. It's a whole thing.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. It is, like, her favorite tradition.
Speaker 2:And I wanted to make a fun pie because, I don't know, no one was just making something boring. So I asked it what to do, and it said to make an espresso chai pumpkin pie with cayenne caramel sauce.
Speaker 1:It's a lot of flavor. It's a lot of adjectives. There's just so much going on. But I am going to try.
Speaker 2:We'll see how it goes.
Speaker 1:You do always make fun pies. And I feel like they're the first ones to go at the library pie sale. And I did go last year. You did? Mhmm.
Speaker 1:It was almost like a non event because the pies sell so quickly that we were we were there for two minutes.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It kinda is.
Speaker 1:And there was a mad dash Mhmm. To get a That was weird.
Speaker 2:I made a cranberry pie, what, two years ago? It was really too dry. Perhaps you'll die. It was so pretty. If you've ever seen, like, pictures look up pictures of a cranberry cream type pie.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And they're so pretty. And I made it. It was beautiful. And then I brought it to Thanksgiving for all the family to enjoy.
Speaker 2:And my grandmother tried it and spit it out and said, ew.
Speaker 1:So if this is what your Thanksgiving is starting to feel like. I feel like traditionally, I will bring things to Thanksgiving or to any big family event. I'll bring a dish. It could be a creative dish or it could be a normal dish that like, everybody always brings. Like green bean casserole.
Speaker 1:And nobody eats it. It sits there and nobody eats it. So now I'm just bringing stuff for me. I was I'm in charge of bringing sweet potatoes. I was gonna make my mom's sweet potato recipe.
Speaker 1:Mom, I don't know how to tell you this. It's it's just not my favorite. So I'm going to make herb and Parmesan sweet potato casserole. No one's gonna eat it. I'm actually pretty excited about that.
Speaker 1:I am not a sweet potato fan because I don't like things that are sweet that shouldn't be sweet. But that sounds pretty good to me. I love sweet potatoes. I think they're fantastic. And I'm excited to try this one, and nobody else needs to try it.
Speaker 1:Just me. Well, and you. All of you out there. I know that you're sitting there prepping your Thanksgivings.
Speaker 2:Hopefully, your turkey has thawed by now. You're basting things.
Speaker 1:You're listening to us on a Bluetooth speaker while whipping something.
Speaker 2:And your family has come over, and they're like, are you okay? Do you listen to this all the time? Should we check on you?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Why are they talking so fast?
Speaker 2:And then you turn on Gilmore Girls. You compare us to them. You see how it goes. Yes. And you realize we're faster.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Should we talk faster for this episode?
Speaker 2:No. Thank you.
Speaker 1:I'm good. Okay.
Speaker 2:We'll get through so much content that it'll blow up the Internet.
Speaker 1:Oh, we wouldn't want that. And we don't want that. We don't want that. No. Anyway, what episode is this?
Speaker 1:'84? A good year. We weren't alive yet. No. And that's why it was good.
Speaker 1:Hurtful. So while you are preparing to feed your family
Speaker 2:Mhmm. We are gonna do an episode today about how Jesus fed the people.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:We have talked in the past about and actually have been posting all over social media the phrase feed the people. Because if you're unfamiliar with the situation or if you are in The United States, there's been a lot of discussion about SNAP benefits, which are basically federally funded feeding of the people, food stamps kind of thing
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Has been under fire lately. We did finally get some of it approved, but there's a lot of new restrictions that are gonna cause a lot of problems for people over the holidays and in the coming years. And so we wanted to talk about how Jesus chose to feed the people.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And how as Christians, we are supposed to be following that example and fighting for legislation to follow that example as well.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. And in Bible times, they also had systems in place to feed the underprivileged, the food insecure people. They would section off a portion of their farm fields and say, I'm not going to harvest this section. This is for whoever needs it. And there's no questions.
Speaker 1:There's no form that you have to fill out to prove that you need it. It's on an honor system. If you need it, take it. Unfortunately, that's not what's happening in the world, specifically The United States today. Right.
Speaker 2:You see that highlighted really well in the book of Ruth Mhmm. Where Ruth and her mother-in-law Naomi have basically lost everything. And they move to a new country, and they're immigrants. They're alone. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:They have nothing. And they're women. Yeah. Which makes it even more difficult
Speaker 2:Yep. To provide for yourself. There's not a lot of legal moral pathways for them forward. Mhmm. But because these systems are in place, because God himself put these systems in place and told his people, this is what you're gonna do, they were provided for.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And she was able to get up every morning and go to these fields and harvest food to feed them, to keep them alive, to keep them going. Because God felt that that was important enough.
Speaker 1:Is that where she met Boaz? Yeah. Was his field. Okay. What up, Boaz?
Speaker 1:It's a
Speaker 2:really exciting name.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think it might be the name of my firstborn.
Speaker 2:There are many instances throughout the Bible where people's physical needs are met. I think oftentimes, as Christians, we think of meeting people's spiritual needs.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:You know, like, oh, we're gonna give them a place to pray. We're gonna hand out free bibles, Maybe a water bottle here and there. Mhmm. But for the most part, it's that spiritual need. I'm gonna meet that.
Speaker 2:Which is not a bad thing. Mhmm. Hand out the free Bibles. I'm not saying not to. But the Bible shows us that the physical needs get met, too.
Speaker 1:I real so we just went and saw wicked. What? You're shocked. Right? Quite frankly, was a spiritual experience.
Speaker 1:Like, it's very good. But one of my favorite lines is I think it's right before she sang or they sang the four good song Mhmm. At the end. The line, Elphaba delivers to Glinda, Galinda, is goodness now has to be an action. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:It can't just be a word. And how much more likely are you to bring people to Christ if their physical needs are met, too? If they're not hungry, if they're not scared, if they have a roof over their heads, and they see that goodness of God, how much more likely are they to see God? Yeah. And see God through you.
Speaker 2:Yeah. To want that for themselves. To say, look at these people who care for others. I want that. I wanna be part of that.
Speaker 1:Because look at this incredible community. Because I've been cared for. Now I can care for someone else. Exactly.
Speaker 2:Two of the really great examples in the Bible of Jesus specifically feeding people, so we're New Testament at the moment, is first when Jesus fed the 5,000. So there's these two really cool instances. Now, I wanna make a note that for both of these, one is the feeding of the 5,001 is 4,000. They likely only counted the men. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:So women there were plenty of women and children there. Mhmm. But just because of the way their society is structured They don't count as people. Yeah. So it was 5,000 men in this instance.
Speaker 2:Probably significantly more people. You assume that many people brought their spouse. Many people brought their children. Say everybody has three children 2.5 children. You know, whatever.
Speaker 2:That's a lot of people. Mhmm. You're talking 15,020 people, maybe more. Mhmm. So this story is featured in all four gospels.
Speaker 2:So Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John,
Speaker 1:in case you weren't aware of those. The good four.
Speaker 2:And essentially, the story goes that people followed Jesus out into like, this whole whole city, basically, picked up, they were like, let's go.
Speaker 1:They follow him into the middle of nowhere for, like, multiple days.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And it's getting it's getting late. Stomachs are grumbling. People are getting crabby. You know how you get crabby when you're hungry?
Speaker 1:Especially during church. Think about that. Yes. All you want is a sandwich. You're, like, imagining, oh, Applebee's after this.
Speaker 1:Yes. Those mozzarella sticks really sound good. They're they're snipping at each other.
Speaker 2:You know? Like, people are angry. People are annoyed. They're hungry. And Jesus says, okay.
Speaker 2:Well, we need to do something about this. Mhmm. And the disciples, their first response was, send them away. Mhmm. Which is not an unreasonable response in theory.
Speaker 2:Right?
Speaker 1:Well, we didn't plan for this. Right. But we don't have the means to care for them, so maybe it's best if they go home. Kind of like today. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Well, the whole idea is we didn't ask them to be here. Mhmm. We didn't ask for this responsibility. Mhmm. Therefore, this responsibility shouldn't be on
Speaker 1:us. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:So the men in the situation say, send them away. And Jesus says, no. You give them something to eat. And so he sends the disciples out into the crowd. Right?
Speaker 1:Also, keep in mind, they've seen the impossible Right. From Jesus. Why wouldn't they just be like, well, yeah, you can do something, Jesus. Right?
Speaker 2:Could you
Speaker 1:snap your fingers real quick? Yeah. I've seen you turn water into wine. Alright. Turn this a rock into bread, please.
Speaker 1:But
Speaker 2:they get sent out into the crowd to see if anybody has any food. And the story goes that no one in these fifteen, twenty thousand people brought food except one little boy who had five loaves and two fishes.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Now I wanna present an idea to you. This is not biblical. This is Alyssa. Okay? But just go with me for a minute.
Speaker 2:Out of 15 or 20,000 people, do you really think that not one single person but this little boy brought food? In order for that to
Speaker 1:be the case, it would have had
Speaker 2:to be some weird god thing where god was like, memory lapse. You know in Harry Potter where Hermione erases her parents' memories?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:That's what would have to
Speaker 1:happen for all of these people to not bring food. Yeah. Because you're going out. People tend to prepare. Right.
Speaker 1:We I love a cooler. I'm a throw something in a cooler. If I know I'm following this guy for an unknown amount of time Mhmm. You better believe I'm throwing some Doritos in my car. But they didn't, in theory.
Speaker 1:They didn't. And they didn't have Doritos. They did not have Doritos. How sad for them. A really hard time.
Speaker 2:But this little boy volunteers his food. But if we assume that everyone didn't get suddenly memory wiped Mhmm. Then the likelihood is that people probably did have food, right, and chose not to share it. They had something and decided that instead of giving it, that they were more important and they were going to take care of themselves.
Speaker 1:Because they were hearing Jesus' lessons, but they weren't living it. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:But this little boy said, I'm not the most important person in the room. Everybody else is hungry too. I don't know what you can do with what I have, but take
Speaker 1:it. Mhmm. And I think there's so something so wonderful about just the giving spirit of a child too, which we should all embody. But I feel like a kid is so much more likely to give than an adult is. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And you say or believe, like in Santa. Oh, don't listen to this if you're a child. Children, you shouldn't have been listening anyway. Let's be real. Santa's real.
Speaker 1:Who do
Speaker 2:you wanna be known as in history? Because all those people who were selfish, who chose not to give of what they had, who chose not to open up and be wildly generous. Mhmm. Because they didn't know where their next meal was coming from. There's part of me that understands.
Speaker 2:Right? Because if you're sitting there and you're like, I'm all the way out in the desert. I've gotta feed my kids. They're hungry. I can't share this with other people.
Speaker 2:I get it. I hear you. Mhmm. And yet Jesus tells us to be radically generous. Do you wanna be the people who chose to keep what they had and were forgotten by history?
Speaker 2:Best case scenario, you're just forgotten by history. Or do you wanna be the little boy that we still talk about?
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:The little boy that was the hands and feet of Jesus.
Speaker 1:Helped facilitate a miracle Right.
Speaker 2:For thousands of people. He went up to heaven after he died, and Jesus high fived him and was like, hey. Remember when we did that cool thing?
Speaker 1:Yeah. And then probably gave him so much more bread and fishes. Probably. I'm sure that's what he was craving at that point. Not Doritos.
Speaker 1:No. So that's that story. One of Jesus' really incredible miracles Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Where he cared for the physical needs of his people
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Where he chose to feed the people.
Speaker 1:Now we talk about Jesus of, obviously, the New Testament, but this isn't only happening in the New Testament. God is working all of the time, specifically in the Old Testament. We think of, like, angry God of the Old Testament, But he was also radically generous in thinking about his people. Because think about the Israelites who escaped, and they're wandering through the desert, and they're hungry. And they have nothing.
Speaker 1:And he's like, Guess what? I'm gonna provide for you. Mhmm. Manna from the sky. And you're telling me you don't believe in miracles?
Speaker 1:Literally, it rained food. Right. And I believe too, didn't they got bored of manna, and so he gave them something else as well? I don't know. I think that's the case.
Speaker 1:I do know that he was like, take what you need
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:But don't hoard it. And if you do hoard it, it's gonna turn to worms. Yeah. And I learned that in Sunday school. We reenacted it one time in Sunday school.
Speaker 1:And and I will think about mana every time I see a cotton ball because they were throwing cotton balls at us. And I really wanted to eat them. Oh, gosh. This from the girl who ate silica gel as a child and ChapStick. I was just really strange.
Speaker 1:Or like an elf. He does eat cotton balls. Yeah. But God of the Old Testament is feeding and caring for his people because that's important. Their physical needs are important to God just as much as their spiritual needs.
Speaker 1:Right. Or Elijah in the Old Testament found a widow and her son. And I had a book on this when I was a kid called Don't Stop, Fill Every Pot. It was the best book I often quote it. Just that, though.
Speaker 1:We just say, don't stop, fill every Yeah. Just the title. And it was during a time of famine. And Elijah, through God, was able to perform a miracle where her oil never ran out and her flower pot never ran out. So they didn't go hungry.
Speaker 1:Physical needs are important too. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And God steps in to take care of them. Mhmm. And if we are to be the hands and feet of Jesus, if we're gonna live that out, then that's what we have to do too. Mhmm. I saw a quote, and I'm absolutely sure that I have quoted on on here before, and I'm not gonna look it up.
Speaker 2:But essentially, says, we either need to be a nation speaking specifically about The US, but I think a world that is radically generous and kind and giving like Jesus, or we need to admit that we know all these things to be true and just don't wanna do them. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Which is what's happening. Mhmm. We can say, God is good. But to the person who's hungry right now, and they're looking at the Christian people who say God is good, and they're starving, how do you believe God is good in that moment? We should be radically giving.
Speaker 1:How fortunate for many of us that we get to celebrate Thanksgiving And we get to pull out a 22 pound turkey that barely fits into our oven. And our walls are busting at the seams full of delicious food.
Speaker 2:Our walls
Speaker 1:are Our walls are busting. Wow. The room is about to explode. It's really unfortunate. But there are children, and there are families, and there are people out there who aren't as fortunate.
Speaker 1:And what more can we be doing to help them? Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Remember that to those people, God is only good if you are good. As the person who is the representative of God, God is only good if you are good too. Mhmm. If you suck and you say, I suck in the name of
Speaker 1:God, then to them, God sucks.
Speaker 2:Like, that's the reality. You are reflection of your creator. When you claim him as yours, you are a reflection of who he
Speaker 1:is Mhmm.
Speaker 2:To the world. So what do you need to do differently to be a good reflection?
Speaker 1:The church asks you to tithe. Mhmm. So in the Bible, it talks about giving 10% of your income or what you have to the church so then the church can give back. Mhmm. But what does that actually look like?
Speaker 1:Because especially in today's climate, maybe 10% of your income is just not doable. Mhmm. But what do you have? Like the little boy with the fishes and the loaves. What do you have?
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Maybe you have some extra time and you can volunteer. Maybe you have some extra clothes you can donate. Mhmm. Maybe you do have extra resources and you can donate some food, but something to make a difference.
Speaker 2:Or even Brie and I were talking about this, fighting for legislation to protect the vulnerable.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:To protect people who are food insecure. Because we need strong voices demanding that Mhmm. Worldwide. We need those voices saying, I will stand in the gap for the people who are hurting. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:So maybe that's all you have. Maybe all you have is your ability to shout from the rooftops Yeah. That this is wrong, that the world is going in the wrong direction. Do that. Do that thing.
Speaker 2:That can be your generosity.
Speaker 1:I just find it interesting that the same people who go on missions trips to third world countries to help feed them, to help build churches are also fighting to take away SNAP benefits from The US. Mhmm. We should be wanting to feed everybody. Yeah. And I'm not saying it's wrong to go to another country and help them out.
Speaker 1:I think you should. But also be giving towards everybody. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:One of the really interesting kind of case studies that we looked at for this episode, and you guys may have seen this. It's on TikTok. A woman, and I am going to mess up her name. Her name is spelled n I k a l I e. So Nikolai, Nikolie, I'm not really sure.
Speaker 2:Her last name is Monroe. So she decided to do kind of a social experiment.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And she called around to a bunch of churches all across The US. Right? Not just Christian churches, but, like, just general churches. And she said that she was a single mother and that she had a two month old baby and she could not feed the baby and she needed formula and asked for help. She said an overwhelming amount of the churches said no in one way or another.
Speaker 2:And I'm gonna read some of the things that were said. So the West End Baptist Church in Alabama said, we don't keep formula on hand. Lakewood Church in Houston offered to route her over to their benevolence ministry, which lots of churches have. But then they said help might take several days or several weeks. I don't know if you guys know this, but babies have to eat every day.
Speaker 2:They don't really like to wait a week. First Baptist Church of Dallas said that they had no programs to help. And then at the end of the conversation, which she did with all of the conversations, she said, actually, this is a social experiment. You know, I don't actually need help. They hung up on her.
Speaker 2:Didn't keep going. Now some churches did offer to help. In Kentucky, the Heritage Hope Church of God offered immediate help. And she was talking to the pastor, and the
Speaker 1:pastor actually asked her what flavor of formula she needed. Which if you're a parent or deal with formula at all, they don't have flavors. That's not a thing. It's not like vanilla or chocolate.
Speaker 2:But just that I mean, he didn't know, but he was willing to help. Whatever whatever she also, the Islamic Center of Charlotte offered immediate help. They didn't check membership or background or anything. They just said, what can we do? Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Those two churches are an example of what a church should be doing, of what as Christians we should be doing. And yet so many churches want you to be a member.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:They want you to be volunteering. They want a big commitment from you of some sort. And I got I know you guys know this. I worked at a church for, what, about a year and a half. And we had a benevolence fund.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. We did. But in order to access that benevolence fund, you had to fill out a form online. The church didn't have membership, so that wasn't an issue, but you had to fill out a form online. Many of the questions asked things like, do you attend the church?
Speaker 2:How long have you attended the church? Do you volunteer at the church? Do you have kids in the kids program? You know, etcetera, etcetera. And then after that, you had to sit down for an interview, an in person interview with one of the pastors, and they would ask you the same kinds of questions.
Speaker 2:Now, technically, it wasn't a requirement that you attended the church or volunteered at the church to get the benevolence fund, but a whole lot of people are gonna see those questions and say, this isn't for me.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Which I find interesting because what does Jesus ask of us? Nothing. Mhmm. He asks nothing of us when He died on the cross.
Speaker 1:You wanna talk about feeding the people, think about the Last Supper when He told the disciples, like, pretty much, Guess what? See you. Here's my body. Here's my blood. I'm going to spill it for you.
Speaker 1:And we represent that in the church through communion, which is like a sacrament. So you take your little unleavened bread and your It's wine or styrofoam. It's bad. In representation of Jesus dying for you. And we consume it.
Speaker 1:Right? We're fed. But the church should be reflecting that. Radically giving. Asking nothing of you to give back.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Here, have formula. Right. Have what you need.
Speaker 2:When Jesus fed the 5,000, when he fed the 4,000, when God gave the manna, all of these different stories, there was no, like, employment check. Mm-mm. Nobody said, hey. Are you working at least twenty hours a week? There was no, are you sure you really need this?
Speaker 2:There was no, do you attend my church? Mhmm. There was no, are you gonna go from here and be good? None of it. There was no expectation.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Just take it.
Speaker 2:That's it. It's that simple. I wanna keep going with that sentence and be like something profound. But it's just take the Yeah.
Speaker 1:Be fed. Be well. Take what you need. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And that is supposed to be our reputation.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:In the New Testament, when the church starts after Jesus goes back to heaven, It says that they sold all their belongings, lived together, shared everything, and used that money from selling all of their belongings to bless the community. And you have to assume to feed the community. Mhmm. To be the hands and feet of Jesus to the community. They had the funds to do it because because they sold off all their belongings.
Speaker 2:And I'm not saying, hey, sell off all your belongings. But, like
Speaker 1:If you want to, fine.
Speaker 2:But that was their reputation. That's what they were known for, giving to the community. That's what the church was, was a giving institution. And it's not what many of our churches are.
Speaker 1:No. Alyssa and I were talking about before we started recording, just from being in so many churches Mhmm. Big and small, you start to see a lot of things, especially when you start to volunteer or work behind the scenes. Just the abuse of money. And when you start to think about that as someone's tithe, things get really tricky.
Speaker 1:Someone is giving even if it's just like $20 a month, and that's all they can do, that's significant for them. And they're hoping that something good happens with that. Maybe it's they know it's part of the pastor's salary, but hopefully something else good can come from that. But there's a lot of just waste. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:I actually have two great stories for this one. One of them, I
Speaker 2:did a lot of ordering for the church.
Speaker 1:I did a lot of event planning for the church. I was in admin, so that's kind of the the lane that I lived in. And I remember at one
Speaker 2:point we had to order water bottles for some event. I don't remember what. But we needed, like, an excessive amount of water bottles. Right? Now my first instinct with that kind of thing was like, I have a Costco membership.
Speaker 2:Let's order all these from Costco so somebody can go pick them up. I was like, I know we had a staff of hundreds of people. This is a megachurch. Right? Somebody's got a truck.
Speaker 2:The church had a van of, like, a free stuff van or something like that. And I was like, somebody take that up to Costco. Somebody take their truck up to Costco. Get a whole pallet of water. Bring it back.
Speaker 2:Right? Because if I tried to have it delivered because we didn't have a contract with anything, so I would have had to have it delivered via, like, a grocery delivery service. It was gonna cost double.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Double for all of these water bottles. And we're talking in large mass, so a significant chunk of money. And I took this to one of the pastors, and I said, hey. Is there can you, like, grab somebody and ask them to run up there's, like, a week of lead time. Can you ask somebody to get this?
Speaker 2:And she said, no. Just order them.
Speaker 1:And I remember sitting back and being like, okay. Because
Speaker 2:that's just waste. It's just the church wasting funds that, yeah, like, people to give sometimes. It's a
Speaker 1:lot easier to spend someone else's money Mhmm. Than it is your own. But if you think about it that way, like, pretend it's your own. And think about all of the other things that you could do with the excess. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Brie and I looked up SNAP benefits in The United States. And sort of the maximum amount that people are getting is between 5 and $6 per person per day Mhmm. For food. And when you really think that through with the level of inflation we're all seeing, and I think probably worldwide, if you really think about if I had to eat, not just eat, but also buy toilet paper, also buy shampoo and Feminine hygiene products. Exactly.
Speaker 1:Like, everything that you need to just survive. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Could I do that on $6 a day? And it's really hard. Mhmm. It's really hard. So those water bottles, if we had had somebody go pick them up and we could have saved the $2,300 extra that we paid, that's someone's almost two people's entire month worth of SNAP benefits that we could have paid for instead.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. And you and you put that in perspective, it's sickening. Mhmm. Things need to be reworked. If you're working full time, you should be able to survive.
Speaker 1:Things need to change. But we need people to stand up and say things need to change. But in the meantime, until things do change, we need to help each other.
Speaker 2:I've heard a lot of people say things like that. Like, well, why aren't people working more? Nobody wants to work anymore. People are just lazy, etcetera, etcetera. I read an article today, and it said that in The United States, based on the federally mandated minimum wage, in order to be above the poverty line, you would have to work ninety hours a week at minimum wage.
Speaker 2:That's not possible. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:It's it's just simply not. It's not sustainable. Also, jobs aren't willing to let you do that. They don't wanna pay overtime either. So you'd have to have multiple jobs.
Speaker 1:Right. Can't have any kids because you can't see them.
Speaker 2:And that's just getting above the poverty line. You're not talking about like, okay, and I have enough to feed myself and also pay my rent and also survive, put gas in my car. Mhmm. That's just I'm sort of maybe kind of alive. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:So the argument of just work harder, just pull yourself up by your bootstraps, just just be a little more independent, you can you can if you try harder. It's really it's a fake dream. Mhmm. Brie said this a couple weeks ago that the American dream is a dream, and that's all. It's a fantasy.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Because we are simply not in a position. And I think globally, we're seeing this too, where people are not
Speaker 1:in a position to just pull themselves up by themselves. Mhmm. And I find it very frustrating that a good chunk of the American people are brainwashed into believing that a certain amount of billionaires really truly care about them. And these billionaires are saying, no, no, no. This 1% of the population is a problem.
Speaker 1:And they're taking from you. They're taking from you. Do you know how much money like, you said this a couple of weeks ago. You would have to spend, like, $10,000 a day. If you were a billionaire and you spent $10,000 a day, You could not spend that amount of money in your lifetime?
Speaker 2:Not like 20 people's lifetimes. It's insane.
Speaker 1:It's an outrageous amount of money. And these people are telling you that people who can't even afford to eat are the problem. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's exactly like in Wicked. Yeah. We actually we saw if you are able to go see it, I would highly recommend seeing part two. But it's really indicative of society today.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. In one of the songs was it in the first one or the second one? I think it's the first one.
Speaker 1:Yeah. The wizard tells Elphaba and Glinda that the way to bring people together is to give them a good enemy, to say this group of people is gonna hurt you,
Speaker 2:so it's us against them. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And that's what we see happening here. But Jesus didn't say it's us against them,
Speaker 2:even to people who were out to get him. Mhmm. He said it's us. Another instance that we mentioned earlier is when Jesus fed the 4,000.
Speaker 1:We had to differentiate between the two. Yes.
Speaker 2:Now while the first one was told in all four gospels, this one is only featured in Mark. It's in Mark eight. And, again, remember, 4,000, but 4,000 men. So double, triple that potentially. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Now this crowd had been with Jesus for three days. So we gotta assume that they probably packed some food. So maybe they were a little they hadn't hit been hit with the spell, you know, all the things.
Speaker 1:But they've run out of food. They followed Jesus too far. Yep. And they're like, what now? Where am I?
Speaker 1:There's no McDonald's. No Doritos. No McDonald's. What the heck? It's a tough time to be alive.
Speaker 1:And the disciples, again,
Speaker 2:now I don't know timeline wise if this is prior to or after the 5,000.
Speaker 1:But again, the disciples say, send
Speaker 2:them back home. Send them back home because it's not our responsibility. We did not ask them to be here. Were just living our lives. 4,000 people started following us.
Speaker 2:You know
Speaker 1:how that goes. And again, there can be miracles. They didn't know that song.
Speaker 2:They didn't know that song.
Speaker 1:The prince of Egypt hadn't come out yet?
Speaker 2:No. Not yet.
Speaker 1:Ah. It's weird. They were living it. So Jesus told them after they said, alright, send them away. Jesus says, if I send them away hungry, they're gonna collapse.
Speaker 1:Which is just I love that Jesus is like, they're gonna die. I feel like we would have gotten along well with Jesus. He's got a really sarcastic side. He does. At least based on the translations.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I like to think of Jesus less as the the holy whatever guy as, like, super sarcastic and hilarious. And just looking at them like,
Speaker 2:have you lost your mind?
Speaker 1:Are you okay? Yeah. Because he does that a lot. He does. He's like, how many times have I shown you what I can do?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Okay. This is ridiculous at this point. I need you to, like, grow a memory. Look me in my eyes.
Speaker 1:Who am I? But anyway, so with this one, I think he has, like, seven loaves of bread and seven fishes. Anyway, he has, I think, more loaves and more fishes than
Speaker 2:this one. And again, he divides it all up, hands it out. And in both of these instances, not only was there enough, but there's extra.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And abundance. And abundance. So not only does God want to provide for us, does God tell us to provide for others as the example of Jesus, but to provide for others in abundance. Mhmm. To give them more than they need.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. To not say, okay. Well, you're only having four people over for Thanksgiving. So I might donate a turkey, but it's only gonna be a five pound turkey instead of the 20 pound turkey. You know, whatever.
Speaker 2:But to give them as much as you can and not ask any questions.
Speaker 1:Outrageous generosity. Mhmm. That's what we're called to do.
Speaker 2:Jesus did not ask them, like, hey, why didn't
Speaker 1:you plan better? He didn't ask them any of this. He just took care of the problem. And the disciples had everybody come to the front empty their pockets. They had them do a handstand and shake.
Speaker 1:Just make sure they didn't have any But boots this
Speaker 2:he fed them because they were his people.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Because they were his people who he loved. Mhmm. That's the message of the Bible. Love God and love others. Love others the way God loves them.
Speaker 2:And God loves them enough to feed them, enough to put legislation in place to feed them
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And then enough to feed them when an there's an emergent situation, and then enough to not ask questions when they need to be fed.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:So love people the way God loves people because that is your biggest command.
Speaker 1:And love is an action. Mhmm. Love isn't just saying, I love you. Love is saying, I love you, here's some sweet potatoes. We have to be better.
Speaker 1:Because just like Elphaba said, goodness is an action now. We have to show, like, that song, like, I live in the goodness of God. Or there's so so many things about God is good. God is good. God is good.
Speaker 1:But when you're hungry, how do you know that God is good? Mhmm. By his people coming and feeding you.
Speaker 2:I think we've all been in a situation where it doesn't feel like God is good. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Well, you look around in the world today, and tragedy after tragedy, it's hard to keep saying God is
Speaker 2:good. Mhmm. There was a time in my life where we lived well below the poverty line. It was right after Nathan and I got married. And we applied for food stamps, SNAP.
Speaker 2:And I remember them asking all these questions. It was hard to get ahold of somebody. There was this long application process. Meanwhile, I don't have food in the cupboards. Right?
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:We were very young.
Speaker 2:It was very difficult. And I was still in college. And we finally get a callback from our caseworker, whatever it was called at the time. And he told me that Nathan qualified and would get about $20 a week for groceries. But because I was still in college, they assumed that I had some sort of meal plan through the college, and so I didn't qualify.
Speaker 2:And even though I told him I didn't have a meal plan through the college, I was not paying for that. He said, well, too bad. The people that you're fighting against when you fight against SNAP benefits are people who are barely surviving.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:They're your kids. They're your friends. They're people you would never know were struggling. Because I came back home and I saw the whole family and nobody knew.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:I think I told my parents, but other than that, like, the broader family did not know that we were struggling like that.
Speaker 1:Because it's something that you don't advertise most of the time. You just try to keep your head up and or keep your head down. Keep your head somewhere. And push through. But it's hard.
Speaker 1:You're right. It's your friends. It's your neighbors. And if you're gonna make this dance, I'm pro life, you have to support life. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:You have to feed life to keep it alive.
Speaker 2:I actually saw a good argument about that the other day. And it said people who claim to be pro life but are against SNAP benefits, are against Medicare and Medicaid, are against all of these things that keep people healthy, well, and alive. They're not pro life. They're pro birth.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:They want babies to be born, but they do not want to care for them at any point after that. We should care about God's people, about the people that are here Mhmm. That are walking around. I don't know. It's such a bizarre hill to die on for so many Christians to me.
Speaker 2:Don't feed the people. I started posting about this, I think, a couple of weeks ago on our social media, and we had the biggest drop in TikTok followers Mhmm. After I started posting about it. And that is what it is, but it's just such an interesting stance to take. You're fine with all the rest of the things that we say.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:We say a lot of stuff. Okay? We say a lot of stuff.
Speaker 2:They're not subtle. No. You're fine with all of that. But the line you draw in the sand is feeding people.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. And honestly, I look at my paycheck and I see the taxes come out. Maybe that's a bit of a bummer to me. But I know that if I needed something or I maybe would have known. If I needed something, I could be provided for.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. It's not affecting me all that much. Mhmm. I'd rather know that this money is coming out and someone is able to use it. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Someone asked me recently, well, do you want your tax dollars to go to support medical care for an illegal immigrant? Yep. I do. I don't have a caveat on who should get medical care Mhmm. On who should be fed.
Speaker 1:Because Jesus didn't. Because we're supposed to be the hands and feet of Jesus. And he died for everybody. Didn't matter what you looked like. It didn't matter if you disagreed with him.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. He died for you. We have
Speaker 2:convicted murderers in prisons.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And nobody's arguing that they shouldn't have medical care and food.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:But you're arguing that parents, that immigrants that came to our country just trying to
Speaker 1:live a better life, trying to
Speaker 2:give their kids a better life, that children, the elderly, all these people, that they shouldn't have medical care and be fed?
Speaker 1:What a bunch of hypocrites. Mhmm. We are. If we sit there and say, is so good. God is so good.
Speaker 1:God is so loving. He died for me. He died for you. He loves you. Meanwhile, you're right.
Speaker 1:You're denying medical care for anybody. Mhmm. You're denying them food. You're denying them love. God didn't put boundaries around his love.
Speaker 2:He didn't put boundaries around who he cared for.
Speaker 1:Or a form that he had to fill up. Right. There's no application.
Speaker 2:He just didn't do it. He said be radically generous. Give of everything that you have. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And those are the people that are noted Mhmm. In the Bible. And their story lives on forever. The poor woman who gave pretty much everything that she had. The little boy who gave the loaves and fishes.
Speaker 1:It happens over and over again in the Bible where people are radically generous, and they're noted. Be radically generous. Yeah. And excuse me. I'm thinking of the woman that put the expensive perfume on Jesus' head as well.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Or on his feet? I think on his feet. His feet. Well, that
Speaker 1:was an uncomfortable pause. Think it was what I was thinking. You're right. That's who history remembers. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And that's who I wanna be. That's who you should wanna be too. As Christians, as human beings Mhmm.
Speaker 1:With a soul, with a conscience
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Love people. And demand better of the systems around you too. Mhmm. Demand better of your churches.
Speaker 2:Demand better of your government entities. Demand better of your individual communities. Because there's a lot of failure as we're seeing through many of these current stories. Another instance that I dealt with in a larger megachurch and I say I tell you these stories because I hope that you can go to your churches. If you are a giving a person who is giving at a church, that you should, as a responsible person, be asking where that money is going.
Speaker 2:And that church should be able to give you receipts to some degree. You know? They should be able to tell you, alright. This is what we're doing. This is what we're doing for the community.
Speaker 2:This is where your money's going. One of the instances that happened for me was planning an event. We had a group at our church called Radical Givers, and that was the people who, in theory, gave more than 10%, but we couldn't know that. We just knew that they gave a lot of money. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:So these were the people that were, like,
Speaker 2:high value to the church. Right?
Speaker 1:You don't wanna lose these ones. They're they have
Speaker 2:little gold halos as they walk in. You know? And I was given a budget, I think, of about $50 a person for dinner. And because we were putting on this big event. And I was gonna get you know, we didn't have plates and silverware at
Speaker 1:the church and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:So I was gonna get, you know, those nice plasticky plates. But, no, we had to have really nice fancy plates. We had to have nice silverware. We had to have multiple drink options. We had to have real tablecloths and centerpieces that were fancy and expensive and all of these different things.
Speaker 2:Right? I mean, out. And just for the dinner itself was about $50 a person. And this was for the rich people.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:This was an invitation only event at a massive church,
Speaker 1:which, personally, I would be pissed off. I would be angry if I saw all of the money and planning that went into this dinner for me at a church. I'd be like, I thought this money was going towards They something should have taken them all to a food bank. Or, Hey, we're gonna go pay off all the food bills at a school. Or, We're gonna go pay off someone's medical bills.
Speaker 1:You get to come with us. Come on.
Speaker 2:Would be amazing.
Speaker 1:That is what we should be doing. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Not giving them overpriced pasta. Thousands upon thousands of dollars. To essentially convince them to give more money Right. Was what was happening. So instead of exactly.
Speaker 2:Like you said, like, showing them what good can be done.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Here's how we are the hands and feet of Jesus as the church. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Instead of that, it was like, look how fancy we are. Look how much excess money we have. I don't know about you, but it makes me feel 10 times better to give something than to receive something. Mhmm. Now I know everybody's I like a gift.
Speaker 1:But it makes you feel really good to give. I think that would convince me to give more money if I saw the goodness of that. Right. If I saw this light up someone's face. I I just don't get it.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't give more for chicken piccata.
Speaker 2:I think that's how we often structure our churches, though, is we put the wealthy people, the important people up on a pedestal, and they want you to know that they are wealthy and important. Mhmm. They'll go around and they'll tell you, yes. I'm part of the radical giver club.
Speaker 1:Yes. Do you see my pin
Speaker 2:and my top hat? And that's how we structure things. Jesus said it is easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle than a rich man to go to heaven. You are not meant to sit there in all your finery, your best Sunday clothes, and talk about how much money you give.
Speaker 1:There's all kinds of stuff in the Bible about that. You're right. There's verses about the way that women should dress. And a lot of people misconstrue that and think that, okay, this means that women have to be more modest with themselves. Cover up.
Speaker 1:But the verses really say, hey, women, don't wear your hair in braids and wear purple to church because you don't wanna look too expensive. That's really what it was. They want you to just be a regular person. You shouldn't be going to church to show off how wealthy you are. That was the whole point of making those rules.
Speaker 1:Because you shouldn't be obsessed with your own wealth. You should be obsessed with God. And because God loves his people, you should be giving back to his people.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Any space that you're in, any church space that you're in, demand better.
Speaker 1:Demand that they show God. Because if they don't, then they're not good enough. Mhmm. And we have high standards. We do have high standards.
Speaker 2:And we're not lowering them. We've been told so many times, no no church is perfect. Just go to one. And no church is perfect.
Speaker 1:No. No person is perfect.
Speaker 2:And that's fine. But if your religious space if your religious space at church or your religious space in your own heart Mhmm. Are not representing God, the love of God, the love that Jesus showed to his people, if any of your religious spaces are not showing that, it's not good enough. Mhmm. And you have to demand better.
Speaker 2:You have to demand better of your churches. You have to demand better of yourself. Demand better of your communities. Mhmm. Keep people fed.
Speaker 1:And maybe that looks like instead of a Sunday service, everybody is going to bring a can of food, and we're all going to go to the food bank together. And that's our Sunday service. Or maybe we're hosting a breakfast for everybody in the area, and everybody is invited. Get creative with it. Maybe we don't just sit in our four walls and we talk about all of the good things that God did, but we act actively go do good things.
Speaker 1:Imagine the impact of that. We've structured church in this really weird way here in the twenty first century where, like, we sing three songs.
Speaker 2:We sit down. We hear a half hour long message. We stand up. We sing two more songs, and we leave.
Speaker 1:Throw communion Yeah. Generosity moment, Jenner.
Speaker 2:That is not how the early church did it. They served their community. You're right. What if we didn't do it that way? Mhmm.
Speaker 2:What if church didn't have to look like everybody else's church? What if you all go out into your communities and say, you know, our church is important to us, but maybe every other Sunday instead of sitting in this church, we go and we do something.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. This is a ton of people that you got to dedicate one to two hours of their week. What could you do? Mhmm. Go do something.
Speaker 1:And that does mean people listening to this podcast getting up and talking to your church leadership about that. Or if you're not actively in a church, that means getting up and doing something good. Mhmm. Taking action.
Speaker 2:Love is an action. Love is a verb. If love is just in your heart Then you fart.
Speaker 1:Then it's not doing much. Then you stink. I don't have to cut all of that out. No. That was good.
Speaker 1:So I should put that on my shirt. No. If love is only in your heart, then you fart and you sink. But I think the great
Speaker 2:thing about this community that we have built with you guys is that I have full faith that this little group of wonderful people has the strength, the ability,
Speaker 1:and the desire to go out and do those things. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:That all we have to do is take a step, and God will use us to change the world. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:I have every faith that that can happen. So do those things. Mhmm. This is your call to action today. Hello.
Speaker 1:Do you want a bracelet?
Speaker 2:This is your sign.
Speaker 1:Have you been asking for a sign from god? This is it. This is it.
Speaker 2:Okay. So tomorrow
Speaker 1:for you guys is Thanksgiving. We released this episode a day early, which we probably should have announced we were doing on the last episode. We definitely didn't. We didn't? We did it two episodes ago.
Speaker 1:Oh. Which was maybe not the most helpful. Surprise. So this episode came out a day early, so enjoy your Thanksgivings tomorrow, if you're in The US. If you're not Enjoy your Thursday.
Speaker 1:Wednesday. Thursday. Wednesday. Tomorrow will the next day will be Thursday. But this comes out on a Wednesday.
Speaker 2:Okay. Enjoy your Wednesdays and Thursdays.
Speaker 1:Enjoy your day whenever you listen to this. Next week, we are gonna
Speaker 2:be talking about being an ally and what it looks like to be an ally over the holidays when oftentimes we sit in rooms with
Speaker 1:people that have very different opinions from us or make very inappropriate jokes. Oh, family. So we're gonna talk about that. And then we are gonna launch into a holiday series that we haven't quite decided on, but it'll be fun. And it'll be fun and creative and Christmas And I thought we did decide on it.
Speaker 1:Did we? Well, if we did, I can't think of one.
Speaker 2:Well, Happy holidays.
Speaker 1:We need to write things down. Mhmm. Alright, guys. Well, happy Thanksgiving, and we will see you guys next week. We'll see you guys next week.
Speaker 1:Love you. Bye. Goodbye. Gobble. Gobble.