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You can’t experience true freedom without also taking responsibility. In this episode, Alex and Ben share their perspectives on what freedom and responsibility mean and explain why you can’t have one without the other. They share practical advice for anyone who thinks their freedom and responsibility are out of balance, and Alex also explains why “freedom and responsibility” is one of Path for Growth’s core values.
Information isn’t the gap between failure and success—action is. Path for Growth’s 1-on-1 coaching helps you create a plan and execute on what matters most for your business. Apply today at pathforgrowth.com/coaching.
Episode Recap:
- What is freedom, actually?
- Freedom is a gift, but we have to choose it
- Common misconceptions around responsibility
- There’s a big difference between “freedom for” and “freedom from”
- Freedom without commitment and structure is just hedonism
- Freedom and responsibility as a core value
- What would you say to someone who’s feeling stuck?
- How can freedom and responsibility transform your life?
- How to identify when freedom and responsibility are out of balance
- First steps for exploring freedom and responsibility
- What would you say to someone who’s not taking advantage of the freedom available to them?
If you’re ready to move beyond just gathering information and start executing on what truly matters, Path for Growth’s 1-on-1 coaching can help. Apply now at pathforgrowth.com/coaching.
Resources:
Creators and Guests
What is Path for Growth?
Path for Growth exists to help impact-driven leaders step into who they were created to be SO THAT others benefit and God is glorified.
What's a common belief around freedom that you think is absolute garbage?
Alex Judd:Absolute garbage. Freedom is whatever I want to do whenever I want to do period. End of story. Garbage is what that is.
Ben Loy:What would you say freedom actually is?
Alex Judd:I like John Piper's definition, and I wouldn't presume to be able to create a better definition than John Piper, so we'll we'll use his. Freedom is having the ability to do that which will make you happiest in a thousand years. I I read that definition probably four or five years ago, and it probably took me two or three years to under to understand, and I maybe still don't, but that's pretty good.
Ben Loy:Explain that a little bit more.
Alex Judd:So freedom is the ability to do that which will make you happiest. So it's not that which will make you happy. Because if freedom is that which will make you happy, then freedom is ice cream for me. Right? But you know just as well as I do that there's a limit to the amount of ice cream that makes me feel free, and I have crossed that limit before, and I feel less free than I ever did in my entire life.
Alex Judd:Right? Being a little bit exaggerative there. But it's not just the ability to make you happy. This this conveys a deeper principle that there are degrees of desire. When you say I want something, which you is talking there?
Alex Judd:And, you know, there's spiritual ideas of is that the flesh talking, or is that is that your spirit talking, or is that the holy spirit talking really is what we're talking about. And so it's what will make you happiest, but then in a thousand years, conveys beliefs about eternity, about legacy, and about theology. And so what will actually matter in a thousand years? Well, if you share my belief system, the fact that you glorified and loved God and the fact that you love people, and that's basically it.
Ben Loy:Mhmm.
Alex Judd:Right? And so freedom then is having the ability to do that. And what's crazy is, a lot of times, it's not that we can't, and it's not that we won't. It's just that we don't. And and it's the fact that we choose different things than what will actually matter happiest in a thousand years, that's what makes us less free or, I mean, to use even biblical language, that what that is what makes us spiritually enslaved to something inferior.
Ben Loy:Mhmm. So would you say is, like, freedom a gift or is it a choice?
Alex Judd:Boy, you're, coming in with some philosophical questions here. I wanna know your thoughts on this, but I would say the fact that we have the ability to choose freedom is a gift. That's how I would answer that question. But I believe God even compels us to choose freedom. Like, but by the grace of God, I am unable to choose freedom.
Alex Judd:And so in some ways, everything all the time is a gift because if we are choosing the right way, that in itself is a gift from God. But the fact that we can play a part in the role of choosing is also a gift. So it is a choice, but it's all a gift. I reject your false dichotomy. It's both.
Alex Judd:Landed it.
Ben Loy:I I would say that it's I would say that it's always a choice. But I I think whose choice is the question.
Alex Judd:Okay.
Ben Loy:Like, I think if we're defining freedom through the lens of it being a long term, yeah, if we want to take the John Piper picture a thousand years or just straight up from the perspective of impact, right? Like freedom with the purpose of creating more freedom down the line. I would say that like all freedom is a choice. And so like the freedom that we get to experience in this country exists because people made the decision to take responsibility and take ownership and make sacrifices in a way that allowed us to have freedom. And so they chose responsibility for our freedom or in the context of personal accountability and personal responsibility.
Ben Loy:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you can use like the ice cream analogy, right? You know, you could eat an absurd amount of ice cream and end up obese and lethargic and out of shape. And that would greatly limit your lifespan and your ability to live life and do things.
Ben Loy:Or you could make the long term decision to give yourself more freedom in the long run and exponentially That freedom could exponentially grow by limiting your ice cream intake and watching our activity level. So I but that's a choice. Right? So I think
Alex Judd:And do you do you believe that the choice is a gift from God?
Ben Loy:Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Alex Judd:Yeah. Yeah. So we're I think we're So yeah. Similar. Yeah.
Alex Judd:So, basically, you're saying is you agree with me? Alright. Alex is right. Yeah. But but I think that actually connects to what we're gonna be talking about some today because if you if you say that it's not a choice at all, then you basically abandon any sense of the other word that we're going to spend a lot of time on today, which is responsibility.
Ben Loy:Yeah. So what is responsibility? And I guess what are some misconceptions around responsibility?
Alex Judd:I actually don't have a, like, strict functional definition that I lean into with responsibility, but the thing that I always think of is the ability to respond. Right? Response ability. And it means you can't respond to something you're blaming on something else. Right?
Alex Judd:I I heard someone say recently, blame. Be lame. Blame. If you wanna be lame, blame. Right?
Alex Judd:Which is memorable, to say the least, but you you can't blame. You can't play the role of victim. You can't exercise denial and take responsibility at the same time. They're mutually exclusive. The minute you stop denying and start owning is when you gain the ability to respond, though.
Alex Judd:So the act of of owning in some ways or or taking responsibility for is gaining a level of agency in the very act.
Ben Loy:I think a lot of people view responsibility as, I mean, slavery in a lot of ways, right? Or limiting or oppressive. Like, how yeah. Like, how does that speak into your definition of responsibility or, really, I think, the accurate definition of responsibility?
Alex Judd:Isn't that just such a sinister deviation from truth, I think? Because what we literally just said is responsibility is the ability to own what's real and and act in accordance with what's real.
Ben Loy:Mhmm.
Alex Judd:Whether that's continue doing it or doing different things to get different results, all that. So responsibility is the ability to name and see what's real and then act in accordance or respond to what's real. If that is correct, I would say you could actually fool me that that simultaneously is a definition of freedom. The ability to see what's real and the and the the flexibility to respond to or act differently or the same in response to that. Right?
Alex Judd:In some ways, it's like it's it's almost like it's not even this pair. It's almost like they're the same thing. And the fact that we have gone so culturally astray that we're literally like that that our definition of freedom is the opposite of responsibility. Mhmm. I think it's just a a marker of how far we've missed the mark.
Alex Judd:Mhmm. And that we think freedom is an absence of responsibility, and in reality, the two are so similar that they could actually be defined in almost the exact way, I think.
Ben Loy:Why do you think that is? Like, why do you think that our our culture well, I mean, I guess we have a country that that sort of establishes this in in law, looks like freedom is a right. And so I but there's a certain level of Like, I feel like as we've continued to take steps forward as a culture in America, that the responsibility we have to steward that freedom becomes less and less important. And the, like, give me my freedom becomes more and more important. Like, why why do you think that is?
Ben Loy:Yeah.
Alex Judd:First of all, I'm a dummy because walking into this conversation, I actually didn't think about the fact that I'm going to be talking to someone that served in our nation's armed forces. And and one thing that I know to be true is that people who have done that view the word freedom differently than other people. And so I a question that I wanna hear you respond to is I'm just prepping you. Is, like, how how has your view of freedom changed as a result of your experience there? But before we get to that, I think one of the reasons to your question why we've strayed so far is we, or I can even say personally at stages of my life, don't understand the difference between freedom for and freedom from.
Alex Judd:We think when we say freedom as being an ideal, which it is an ideal, and it's a biblical ideal. It's a biblical value. Right? It is for freedom that you were set free. We think that that describes or that the ideal is freedom from freedom from commitment, freedom from responsibility, freedom from rules, freedom from anything possibly that could tell me what to do in the immediate moment right now.
Alex Judd:We think that freedom is freedom from any of that. In reality, true freedom is freedom for something greater. It's saying it's not saying it's a total absence of commitment, responsibilities, rules, laws, structure, discipline. It's not at all saying it's an absence of that. It's saying it's an intentional agency filled voluntary adoption of the right rules, commitments, boundaries, all of that so that I I can operate in alignment with what I was actually created for
Ben Loy:Mhmm.
Alex Judd:Is what I would say.
Ben Loy:Mhmm. Yeah. I I mean, I love that distinguishment. I feel like it frames the reality, which is, I would argue, what the Bible says about freedom and it puts it up against what our culture currently says, like, freedom is all about.
Alex Judd:Yeah. So I I already primed you for the question. So I wanna get your thoughts on the question, and then I wanna hit on the cultural moment that we're in. I'm gonna stop hitting on the next question before the question that we're in. So I'm just gonna give it to you on how how does your view of even the word freedom different because of your time as a member of the Coast Guard?
Ben Loy:You know, I mean, lot of people will say, you know, military service is sacrifice and and and service, which it is. Right? I don't know if, I don't know if everyone who like signs that dotted line and swears in has completely weighed the implications of that until they're in it. Right? I think I had enough of an understanding and maturity about the decision I was making that like, I think I knew what I I knew the decision that I was making at the time, but there are a lot more implications and you don't really completely understand the gravity of it until you're you're kind of in it.
Ben Loy:I mean, when when you join the military, like you are giving up freedom. Like you are surrendering your freedom. You are actually surrendering rights that like citizens of The United States have. Like you will no longer have those rights for the time that you are in the military. And even in some context afterwards, like you can still be prosecuted under the UCMJ after you separate from the military.
Ben Loy:One of the things that's interesting is like, this is just a really obvious example of what this looks like is under the UCMJ, like you can be prosecuted and even potentially jailed for adultery. Like, it is a it is a it is an offense. Like, it it it can get you it you're in you can lose your employment, like, can get kicked out of the military, you can get, you know, other than honorable discharge for it. And depending on the circumstances and the nature of it, like, yeah, you could spend some time. And that's not typically what happens.
Ben Loy:Like people do get kicked out for it, but it doesn't usually go to the extreme. But that's just the reality that like our current culture, like the rights that we have, like you you can do something like that in the civilian sector and in life and not deal with those the same amount of punitive consequences that exist in the military. Right? Like, you are literally I mean, you are and that is one example of how you have you are submitting to and removing rights that other people would have in The in in The United States when you join the military.
Alex Judd:Which for me, I think that almost highlights the way I'm kind of visualizing this is, like, there's a capital f freedom and there's a lowercase freedom.
Ben Loy:Mhmm.
Alex Judd:And you are giving up your lowercase freedoms. Right? You don't get to decide when you wake up. You don't get to decide what to wear. Or where you
Ben Loy:live or what
Alex Judd:what to eat, what your weight's gonna be. You don't you what what's so crazy, though, is these are theoretically the men and women that believe most in the the ideal of freedom that our nation was founded on. Right? And but if freedom is just those things, like who I date, what I what I do, I mean, quite frankly, like, with my, with my sexuality, with my sexual life, like adultery or not, things like that. Right?
Alex Judd:Like, if freedom is just those things, those people would never, like, opt in for that. Right? What they're really saying is I'm actually gonna give up some lowercase f freedoms because I believe so much in the overarching capital letter freedom, like the ideal of every person should have the right to be able to choose to do the things that would make them happiest in a thousand years. Worship God, the ability to love people, even the ability to own property, things like that. Like, they believe in those ideals so much that they're willing to personally sacrifice personal inferior freedoms for the higher virtue and value of freedom.
Alex Judd:Does that is that a proper way of thinking about it?
Ben Loy:Yeah. Yeah. And I I think it just I I think this conversation will continue to develop in this direction. It just speaks to the reality that true freedom comes at the price of, like, taking responsibility and and making the choice to think farther than the end of, like, your nose and the desires that you have in in any given moment. Right?
Alex Judd:That's right. Which the the term for what you're talking about there is hedonism.
Ben Loy:Mhmm.
Alex Judd:Right? Hedonism is the philosophy that life is for pleasure, and that is a narrative that if you adopt that life is for my immediate pleasure all the time, It's so weird. We we get convinced that that is what freedom is, and we get, like, thoroughly convinced that that's what freedom is. And you become a slave to your most immediate desires is what you become. Mhmm.
Alex Judd:Is whatever you feel most strongly about at that time is what you become a slave to to the point where we see how bad choices become bad habits, bad habits become addictions. And, I mean, if if you have known or ever been an addict, enslavement is the proper word. Like, that is what actual addiction is. It's wanting more and more of something that works less and less. Mhmm.
Alex Judd:And what's wild, though, is that I don't know if it's unique to our time, but what I do know is we live in a time where it is so easy to be convinced that freedom is total absence of stricture commitments, rules, regulations, discipline, structure at all. And that is hedonism.
Ben Loy:Yeah. So freedom and responsibility is one of our core values at Path4Growth. I I would like to dive into a conversation of, yeah, why did you choose that and, like, how has that played out in the business?
Alex Judd:Yeah. That will be less of a philosophical discussion and more of a pragmatic discussion because the more time we've spent with this language of freedom and responsibility, the more we I personally have learned about the philosophical ramifications of it. I could not have had the discussion that we just had five years ago. I'm I still quite frankly struggle to have it now because I can I can picture it, and I and I feel like I've actually experienced the relationship between the two? But even to explain the philosophy can be really challenging and really difficult.
Alex Judd:So if we're talking about the practical side of it, practically, where it came about was I'll never forget. I I was sitting in Eagle River, Alaska, and I had gotten on a work meeting at, like I mean, it it was like I got on a work meeting at 5AM that day because I was on Alaska time. Right? And I was meeting with someone on the East Coast, and so I got in a meeting at 5AM. And then after that, I I had, like, a long breakfast with friends, and then I went for a run, and then I came back and did some more work.
Alex Judd:And then I took a nap, and then I went for another run. I did a little bit more work before the end of the day, and then I wrapped up and went to an early dinner with friends. And then in Alaska, it, like, stays light in the summer. It's always light. Right?
Alex Judd:And so I think we went for a hike at, like, 10PM, and and that was, like, one of my days in Alaska. Right? And I just remember being, that was so awesome. And then just thinking, like, it would suck to employ people and and for me as a business owner to be like, I get to do that, but you don't get to do that. And I just kinda asked myself, well, why is it that I get to do that?
Alex Judd:Is it just because I own equity in the business? Is that why I get to do that? And what I recognized is, no, the reason why I get to do that is because I'm willing to live with the consequences and benefits of doing those things. Like, I was basically saying, this is how I'm going to spend my day. And if in the process of spending my day this way, I end up losing customers or I end up missing a deadline or I end up not communicating the way I was supposed to communicate, you know, in response to, you know, a message that I had received or something like that or the business a decision isn't made and so the business slows down.
Alex Judd:I kind of said, I'm willing to live with the ramifications of those things occurring, but the reason why I'm doing this is because I don't think those things are are going to occur because I've taken responsibility for those things. And so what I recognized in that moment is, man, the reason why I can have such wonderful days, wonderful, full, very unorthodox days like I had that day in Alaska was because I was willing to take responsibility for the associated consequences and benefits associated with it and for the decisions that I was making. And that that I didn't have the language at that time, but what I realized is, well, if that's available to me, I think we can make that available to everyone. And then I said, well, why shouldn't we try? And so that's where we ended up with the core value of freedom and responsibility.
Ben Loy:And how does that play out practically and, like like, our PTO policy? Just shed some light on what that looks like within the business?
Alex Judd:I honestly think it's just a reflection of reality, and it's just a reflection of what it looks like that's actually true, which is everyone is self employed all the time. People think I employ them. I don't employ them. Everyone is self employed all the time, and that is true for every employee ever because, like, you are going to have to live with the consequences or benefits of your actions. It's just sometime we have this bureaucratic organization that shields people from that.
Alex Judd:I think what we are good about in our organization is we just say, man, I want you to experience a whole lot of freedom. I want you to be able to decide when and for how long your family should go on vacation. I want you to be able to decide, you know, how much time you take off. I want you to be able to decide when you're gonna start work. I want you to be able to decide that if we have an in person experience and it was just like an all out sprint for seventy two hours that you're gonna take the next Monday off.
Alex Judd:I want you to be able to decide how much time you're gonna have off for Christmas versus Thanksgiving versus spring break. I want you to have all of that freedom because I want to have all that freedom and because I think you do have all freedom. But to take advantage of that freedom, what do you have to take that I cannot take for you? Responsibility. You have to take responsibility for the results that you are uniquely responsible for getting to make this a viable and growing business.
Alex Judd:You are responsible for making sure you communicate well ahead of time so that you being gone isn't creating unnecessary work or hardship for the other people that you're supposed to be collaborating with. Right? You've got to take responsibility for the customers that you're meeting with over the course of that week or that month and them making decisions about whether or not they want to continue working with you or not based on your decisions that you're making with your time. Those are just a few examples. Right?
Alex Judd:But as long as you're down to take that responsibility, you should get and do get to experience that freedom because the two go hand in hand.
Ben Loy:Is there a a time or a story you have for, yeah, like what that's looked like and when that played out well for a team member?
Alex Judd:Olivia on our team drafted her maternity plan the last time she had a child, and she said, this is what I want to do and this is how I'm going to make it a win for the business. That is extremely unorthodox. Right? That fits in alignment with the the culture of what we wanted to create. And and the thing is is, like, I'm actually down for anyone doing that paternity or maternity.
Alex Judd:Right? But I want everyone on our team to take responsibility to do exactly what I had to do whenever I had our first daughter, whenever Aspen and I had our first daughter, which was how much time do I want to take? What are the ramifications of me taking that time? And how can I solve for those ramifications in such a way that it's like the business doesn't even take a hit? The business actually even grows while I'm gone.
Ben Loy:Mhmm.
Alex Judd:And and what does that require? It requires a lot of forethought, a lot of planning, a lot of communication, a lot of persuasion and influence. It can't be just something like, hey. I decided the week before that I'm gonna take a month and a half off and experience that freedom, and so now I'm gonna scramble to take responsibility. That will not work.
Alex Judd:Right? Because what we are all responsible for is if we wanna be absent for a period of time, how does this thing not just not just base level sustain? How does this thing grow while I'm gone? And it could be that you're like, man, I can't be off for six months and that happened right now. Like, I'm I'm I haven't yet created the systems where that can occur.
Alex Judd:Probably means that you either need to take responsibility in a different way. Right? Meaning, like, maybe I I take some unpaid time off or something like that. Or maybe you need to say, like, I I need to not take six months off. I need to take three months off or x y z.
Alex Judd:Right? So I think that's one example. It applies a lot to vacations. It applies a lot to how people request time off. I don't like people asking me, hey, can I take this day off?
Alex Judd:I like them telling me, hey. I'm taking this day off because here here was my plan for the day, and here's what I'm doing instead of that plan or things like that, or here's how I'm solving to make it a win for the team as a whole. I think what we're always looking for is an ability to take responsibility in a way that's a win for the individual, a win for the team, and a win for the customers. And if we can find a way to take responsibility and that it's an actual win in all those areas, then the freedom associated with that is almost, like, indistinguishable from the responsibility.
Ben Loy:Mhmm. So you've you've talked about how responsibility with Path for Growth and with the team makes room for time off, vacation, whatever. I I I know that your view of freedom goes far beyond that and and your yeah, your belief in this core value goes beyond that. Can you explain that a little bit?
Alex Judd:I mean, it actually ties in lot to what we talked about for maybe the first fifteen minutes of this podcast, which is my biggest goal for the people that work on our team is not for them to just experience the incredible benefit that is unlimited PTO or for them to be like, I can eat a long breakfast today with my kiddos or for them to even be like, I get to go to the gym in the middle of the day. Right? That's not my greatest goal for the people that work on our team. My greatest goal for the people that work on our team is that they deeply understand and believe in the inextricable link between freedom and responsibility. Because taking a long breakfast can make your morning better.
Alex Judd:Understanding the link between those two virtues will make your life better. And I think if wisdom is competence with regard to the realities of life and that when we operate in the lane of wisdom, we're going with the grain of the universe, then what I think we experience is, man, this is a lot of work. It is way more work to experience more freedom. Right? It because it's way more work to take more responsibility, but it's actual life.
Alex Judd:Mhmm. It's not like you're living with some bureaucratic umbrella that shields you from the consequences or benefits of your own decisions. It's like, I I actually get to live with the consequences and benefits of my decisions and how I use my time. And I I don't get to blame anyone else for how I'm using my time. I just get to seize all of the opportunity associated with taking responsibility.
Ben Loy:If someone's, like, listening to this podcast and maybe they feel stuck and that's maybe they're in a job or a career that they, like, don't see a lot of upward trajectory in, maybe they feel stuck in their business, like they don't they don't know where they can grow, want to grow, maybe they feel limited in their ability or their resources to do that. What would you say to them as it pertains to freedom and responsibility? You gotta change. And
Alex Judd:that's either you've gotta change or you've gotta change. Right? And so, you know, I knew someone a while back that just every single time we would get together, he would complain to me about his job for the same reasons. And at a certain point, you are the one that keeps deciding to show up. And so you've gotta say, is this an attitude problem that I want to keep working here?
Alex Judd:So you are freely making that decision. So you need to take responsibility for having the right attitude to work at the place that you want to work. Or do you want to take the risk of going to do something else, and that's what you're freely doing, and you're gonna chain take responsibility for changing that way. But to the degree you chronically keep showing up the same way to the same thing and getting negative results and then complaining about it, you sacrifice your ability to complain anymore because you have the freedom to choose. This is what's so crazy is when you adopt a tragedy narrative, you start talking like someone that lives in a tyrannical dictatorship.
Alex Judd:And praise God, none of us do. And I guarantee you that if you do, there's no way they're letting you listen to what you're listening to right now because it's the antithesis of everything that stands for. And so you don't live in that, so you get to choose. But the thing that we so often do is we tell ourselves, I don't have any say. This is all related to circumstance.
Alex Judd:It's all related to what someone else is doing. It's all related to my boss. It's all related to the structure of the world or the structure of this organization or the structure of how things have worked out. And the minute you say that, you will not feel free because you are not free because you have chosen to give all of your freedom away.
Ben Loy:Yeah. I mean, because taking responsibility implies that or it it is often followed by making decisions that are gonna make you uncomfortable. Yeah.
Alex Judd:And so we avoid it. Right? Or making commitments. Yep. Yeah.
Alex Judd:And that's where it's yeah. It's such a it's such a garbage trash lie that we think freedom operates opposed to or polarized from commitments. Right? I love David Brooks' definition, and he says commitment is when you fall in love with something to such a degree that you put structure around it for the times when you no longer feel in love with it. I mean, you and I both know people that have been married for twenty five years and would say, praise god.
Alex Judd:That's the greatest blessing of my life. And if I look at that person and I say, so that means that person feel like staying married every day for twenty five years. Incorrect. Right? No.
Alex Judd:They chose to stay married because they believed in the capital f freedom more than they believed in the lowercase freedom of me just doing what I want whenever I want how I want.
Ben Loy:Do you have any fun stories about yeah. Maybe maybe an area where you experienced this to play out in a way that was either unexpected or maybe just, yeah, really drove home this this belief in freedom and responsibility.
Alex Judd:Yeah. I like that you say fun stories. That's that probably Ben's way of being like, this has been a little intense. Let's say let's use a fun story. Yeah.
Alex Judd:Sure. I mean, there were so many times early on in the business where it was almost like I had to realize, like, oh, I can do this. And this still happens to me. Right? It was gosh, what was it?
Alex Judd:Two days ago, it was 11:00, and I was at the gym, and I had just finished a a brutal 1,500 workout, which is my idea of a good time. And then I read a book in the sauna and cold plunged back and forth for a little bit. And then I went into the steam room and I had some thoughts about what the theme for our next, experience in the Tri State area in New York would be, and I documented some ideas around that theme. And on the drive back, I was like, I literally can't believe this is my life. Like, this is called Tuesday is what this is.
Alex Judd:And and and it's honestly, it's a gift for me that, like, our team members can experience the same type of thing. And that I think it would be good for us to have a discussion with about, like, how this applies in different types of organizations. But because it's such a core value for me, we've made it a core value of the organization, and we have made intentional decisions about how we structure the organization so that our team members can have the availability to be able to do that type of thing.
Ben Loy:Yeah. You just played out that situation of you at the gym. What are the decisions that you made or that you have made previously to make that a reality?
Alex Judd:Yeah. A lot of things. I don't do stuff like that if the business is in bad shape. If we are churning customers, if if we have team members that, like, aren't doing well. Right?
Alex Judd:That's not to say that I won't go to the gym because that's part of like personal maintenance and vitality, but I'm probably not gonna do the full on cold plunge sauna back and forth steam room like
Ben Loy:In the middle of the day.
Alex Judd:I'm not gonna do the whole car wash. Right? Is what what I'm saying. Right? But but so it's like there's a whole host of decisions associated with putting the business in the position where we're we're we're happy and healthy right now.
Alex Judd:Team members are doing really well right now. We've got opportunity on the horizon. We're growing the business. So I I think that I and Michelle, who operates as my assistant, we take pretty extreme ownership over my calendar and and scheduling out my the results that I'm responsible for pretty effectively. And so I'm responsible for vision of the business, culture of the team, profitability of the business, the leadership team being led, managed, and held accountable.
Alex Judd:Right? Those are my responsibilities. And right now, the the last time I read yellow green notes, I was green in all of those areas. Right? And so it's like, well, part of that is, okay, well, because I'm winning in the areas that I need to be winning, I I can, in good conscious, experience more freedom associated with that.
Alex Judd:So I think that's another piece that really, really matters. I think a good standard to adopt is, like, just an internal standard of stewardship and, like, am I doing my best? Because if you're not doing your best, there will be a moment where you're in the sauna and you're like, I'm really enjoying this, and you will get flooded with guilt, and you won't be able to counter that guilt with anything because you're not doing your best. And so and I've experienced that before. I think we're in a season right now where, man, when I'm working, I'm working extremely hard.
Alex Judd:And I am and I can in good conscience say, am I doing my best? It doesn't mean that I'm not, you know, in the middle of my second set of bench press, and then I think to myself, should I be doing this right now? I could be working right now. I do have those doubts, but then what I am able to counter those doubts with is I am working for the glory of God. I am doing my best, and I am green in the results that matter.
Alex Judd:And I can say in good conscience that I am taking responsibility for the things that he's given me to steward and be responsible for. And so I can do set three on the bench press is what I would say. So those are a a few of the different things that go into being able to experience a morning like that morning.
Ben Loy:What's a way that someone could maybe identify, like, maybe do a do an audit on themselves of where they're lacking in this in their life, whether it's personally, professionally, in their role, at work, in their business?
Alex Judd:Where they're lacking in freedom or in responsibility or both? Both.
Ben Loy:Yeah. Or or, yeah, maybe maybe finding, doing an audit of of, yeah, what does the balance between those things look like in each of these categories?
Alex Judd:Well, I guess some questions I I would ask people is, do you feel like you're becoming more of the person that you were created to be? Not just the worker, but the person. Do you constantly feel like you're not doing enough? What are the results that matter most for you, and are you attending to those areas? What are the things that you've been uniquely given to steward and exercise self control over, and are you attending to those areas?
Alex Judd:And I think that last one is actually really worth hitting home on. Like, what do you actually want? And I'm not I'm talking all caps lock want. People often become a slave to their business when they feel like they have to do things that they don't actually want to do. But in reality, they haven't clarified what they actually want.
Alex Judd:And the minute we start to clarify what we actually want, man, I I wanna be I wanna have a thriving relationship with the God who created me. I I wanna be a really faithful husband. I wanna be a strong and present father. I wanna be a pillar of my community. I wanna be physically active and and really, really healthy.
Alex Judd:The minute we clarify that we want those things, and I wanna be a professional leader and professional communicator. Right? Those are all statements that I'm saying yes to. And the minute we're saying yes to those things, there are there are boundaries and methods and commitments that we can make to become more of those things. And those boundaries, methods, and commitments represent the responsibility that we have to take to experience holistic freedom.
Alex Judd:And so what what often happens is people say, I want this, but but they want the freedom and they don't want the responsibility. If you want the freedom, take the freedom. Just also take the responsibility associated with it because what I had to learn is it's all wildly available to you. You really run into issues the more you say, I just wish I could. Or, man, it would just be awesome if I it's like, you can.
Alex Judd:You just have to realize that you can and you have to be willing to accept that there's responsibilities associated with any goal outcome desire that you choose to pursue.
Ben Loy:If freedom is saying yes to things, responsibility, it sounds like, is often saying no to a lot of other things. Like choosing what you're for implies that you're going to be eliminating or saying no to a lot of things that you, in the now, like, might want to say yes to.
Alex Judd:Yeah. That's interesting. I certainly think that especially it starts that way. What you know as well as anyone is that, like, the responsibility itself feels like freedom the more you say yes to it. Right?
Alex Judd:And and, you know, as a Christian, it's like operating in alignment with God's boundaries becomes not this, like, burden that it's like, oh, I have to do this. Right? It more becomes like this blessing that I was created to delight in. But the first times we do it, it I mean, it very much is going to the gym for the first time, and it sucks. Right?
Alex Judd:Because it's like, this is operating out of alignment with my habits, my comfort zone, my automatic, my default. And that feels uncomfortable. It feels disjointed. I feel weak doing it. But the more I do it, not only do I get better at it, I actually enjoy it.
Alex Judd:And then it becomes incorporated into the person that I am. And and so in that way, the responsibility becomes part of the person that you are, and that's just such a joy, I think.
Ben Loy:Mhmm. Why does it feel like often, like, the action that you take in the first, let's say like, let's just pick the gym or working out or running or something physically active, because I feel like it's an easy analogy. Why does it always feel so painful, especially in those beginning weeks? And then six months down the line, it's almost an identity.
Alex Judd:I don't know if it it really fully gets to the answer of the question, but the image that I have in in my head is this morning. It's starting to get a little cold in Arizona, which praise God. And let's be very real here, cold in Arizona is like low sixties, right? But it's starting to get a little bit cold in Arizona. So I wake up in the morning now and it's like the blanket feels so good.
Alex Judd:Like, it feels so good to be under the blanket, to be like, it's dark. It's it's Right? Like and everything outside of the blanket feels totally wrong, totally antithetical to, like, what I lowercase want in this moment. And so it's in that moment that I have a choice. Right?
Alex Judd:Am I gonna leave what's known, what's familiar, what's comfortable, what I lowercase want for what I capital w want. Which what what do I want? Man, I wanna have some genuine time in prayer and scripture before Lily gets out of bed in the morning. Man, I I capital w want, like, to move my body a little bit by going for a walk. I capital w want to drink my greens before I drink coffee.
Alex Judd:I I capital w want to do 52 push ups so that my blood is flowing before before I start my day. And that way, I approach everything else that I do in the day with a greater sense of energy. And it's like the war between those two things. And the lowercase w is always louder in the moment unless I can conjure a vision of what the capital w actually is. Unless I can literally see myself not only just doing those things, but experiencing the benefit and the gift of those things.
Alex Judd:And so to go to your question, I think what we so often struggle with is capturing a vision for what we capital w want. And so we settle for the really loud, man, the blankets and the covers feel so good right now. And faced with discomfort, pain, unfamiliar, all of that, or what feels really good right now, we just say I'm gonna opt in for what feels really good right now.
Ben Loy:We're wired very differently because I sprung out of bed this morning. Well, that's good, man.
Alex Judd:That's good. That was not me this morning. That probably had something to do with Lily's sleeping routine last But yeah.
Ben Loy:You talked about like, yeah, inputs or desires being really loud. It made me think of like in rescue summer school when you're on the bottom of a pool, like holding your breath, your heart rate is high. And I mean, you have to actively and continually make the decision to not rise to the surface to breathe because you have a longer vision of where you want to go and that would be quitting. That would be the antithesis of the direction you want to go. But I mean, it's so visceral in that moment because your body is like screaming, you know, for air at that time.
Ben Loy:But then the reality is that like, if you ever have like pushed yourself in that area, like in breath work, in holding your breath underwater, like you actually can go much, much, much farther than you think you can if you just find some resolve and just like continue on forward. Like the point at which you think you're gonna pass out is so much farther than what it feels like in the moment.
Alex Judd:It's so interesting that we live in a time right now that like I mean, it's at least on my feed, it seems like the singular most popular topic for content creators is do hard things, like some version of do hard things. And everyone is presenting it as like their revolutionary message that's original to them that they're like, I'm gonna let you in onto the secret, do hard things. But I think what it is reflective of I think it's really good that it's as popularized as it is. Right? I think it's comical that we present it as an original idea, but that's beside the point.
Alex Judd:But I I think what that's reflective of is we are all looking for ways to train ourselves against immediate gratification in a world where immediate gratification is more accessible than it's ever been. Mhmm. And when we find those means and manners of practicing and training ourselves to resist that, we, like, wanna share it with people, and we want other people to get in on the goal. I think that's what's going on there, And I think it's directly related to the relationship we're talking about with freedom and responsibility.
Ben Loy:How would you recommend someone, I guess, start exploring this? And in my own personal life, I feel like I have understood this best professionally when I was experiencing it personally, whether that's through fitness and like accomplishing fitness goals or other areas like just personal development and, habit, you know, habit stacking, habit building? Like, what do you think is a good first step for someone to take as it pertains to freedom and responsibility?
Alex Judd:I I would say spend genuine time prayerfully answering the question, what do you want in a given time frame? And maybe that time frame, if you're if you're very new to this and you don't feel like you have much agency right now, is what do you want by the end of this week? Maybe it's what do you want six months from now? Maybe it's what do you want three years from now? Right?
Alex Judd:I I would if you're new to this line of thinking, I would start with what do you want even by the end of this day or this week. What do you want in a given time frame? And then ask yourself and list it, what is the responsibility that that demands of me? What is the responsibility that that demands of me? And it will tell you things about your money, about your time, about your energy, about your relationships.
Alex Judd:If you really honestly answer that question, you will get or if you ask that question, you will get answers. And seek and you shall find. Write down those answers. And then ask yourself, am I willing to take that responsibility? And and even that is an act of freedom because you have the ability to say yes or no to that question.
Alex Judd:You you wrote what you really want theoretically. At that point, it's just theory. You wrote what it's gonna take, and now you're asking yourself the question that is a freedom question. Do I actually want this? Am I willing to take the responsibility?
Alex Judd:And what's so cool about that question is even if you say no, you are still exercising freedom. Even if you recognize here's everything that it's gonna take to get what I supposedly want, I'm not willing to do that, then what you're basically saying is I am freely deciding that I don't actually want that. But then you are released from the burden that you are putting your on yourself of saying that you want things you don't actually want, which I think is actually an incredible weight that people carry around with them. So just to review the questions you're asking, what do you actually want in a given time frame? What is the responsibility that demands from you?
Alex Judd:And are you willing to take that responsibility?
Ben Loy:Was there ever a time, where in hindsight you were like, you may yeah. Maybe I lean a little too hard into freedom on this one.
Alex Judd:Oh, goodness. I'm sure. Well, you know, I say I'm sure. I actually think that my the thing that I've had to grow in more is that there's more freedom available to me than than I often take advantage of. Like, I I and that, I think, is something that I'm I'm continuing to learn and grow in is I operate my default is scarcity.
Alex Judd:Mhmm. And there's not enough, and I can't be doing this right now. And so the thing that I've often had to lean into is, oh, I can actually do this. Right? I have received advice from people that given the resources and talent and sheer amount of content and reach that we currently have, path for growth is playing small ball.
Alex Judd:People have told me that. And I think that's reflective of, man, we are actually taking more responsibility than freedom we're allowing ourselves to experience. And in some ways, have to take responsibility for the freedom too. And that's actually a critical part of it. So I know it's not a direct answer to your question, but I think I'm more actually over index on the opposite, not realizing how free we actually are.
Ben Loy:Talk a little more about that because I do think while while our culture leans really hard into into comfort, then yeah, like freedom, the immediate, I do think there's also a subcategory, especially in our culture right now. I think Alex Hermosy is like someone who I think of who exhibits this really well. I would say he is an overcorrection of responsibility or like, yeah, like the point of life is to suffer and to build and like, and that's it, right? Like, grind, grind, grind, grind. Don't experience any freedom.
Ben Loy:Yeah. And while I don't think you are that extreme, what you're saying is you lean internally that direction. So Mhmm. If you could say something to yourself five years ago on this subject of responsibility, what would it be?
Alex Judd:You keep making excuses for why you can't do things you can actually do. And the reason why you're making those excuses is because you're afraid to take on the responsibility of actually doing them. Mhmm. Thanks for asking that question because I think I could experience this same thing today. Right?
Alex Judd:Is I often see that people don't they think they don't want the freedom, or they I guess they do want the freedom. I did want the freedom, but I was really afraid of the responsibility and that I wouldn't be able to take it. And so, therefore, I lived in this weird middle ground where I didn't experience the freedom, but I wished I could. Mhmm. But I was actually actively making decisions not to experience it.
Alex Judd:I just think there is more available to us than we often realize. And not only that, the message that I needed to hear is it is not inherently immoral or prideful to want those things and then to genuinely pursue them in a way that loves people and glorifies God.
Ben Loy:And
Alex Judd:that actually when you do that and you delight in doing that, God is glorified and other people are served, and you end up taking on more responsibility, and that's a good thing. Yeah. You know? I I think of John 15 I think it's John 15. Abide in me.
Alex Judd:I I am the vine. You are the branches. Right? And, for if you abide in me, you will bear much fruit. It was really helpful for me to to read through that and then realize what does bear mean?
Alex Judd:You will bear much fruit. I always read that as abide in me and you will bear much fruit. That means you will produce a bunch of fruit. There will a lot of a lot of good things that come from the work that you do. And certainly production is part of bearing.
Alex Judd:But what bear actually means is you will be able to hold the weight of. Right? Abide in me because if you abide in me, you will be able to hold the weight of a whole lot of fruit. I read that as like, if you lean into me, stay connected to me, depend on me, look to me as your source and your provision, you will be able to hold the weight of a lot of responsibility. And that is a really, really, really good thing.
Alex Judd:And we shouldn't shirk that. We should praise God for that and delight in it.
Ben Loy:Yeah. I don't think we really touched on on it until just now, but it it really is like an expansive or an expanding concept. Like, when when you navigate this well and you and you use your your freedom and your free will to take on more responsibility, like, that in turn creates more opportunity and more fruit. And then it continues to if you steward it well, like, continues to grow and to expand.
Alex Judd:And that's the I'm so grateful that you said that because I think a lot of our core values don't compete with each other. They complement each other. Mhmm. And I think freedom and responsibility runs rampant unless it's not also paired with strength is for service.
Ben Loy:Mhmm.
Alex Judd:Right? Like, we are incredibly blessed to be able to be strong, to take responsibility, and to experience great freedom. And, man, it is such a strength and such a gift and such a blessing that that I've had my eyes and we collectively have our had our eyes open to this reality of how the world works that when we take responsibility, we get freedom. What is strength for? It's for service.
Alex Judd:Right? And so how do we use that? We don't use this to basically just bolster up bolster up our own lifestyles and basically orient everything with regard to our work around my personal comfort zone, that is actually defeating the purpose of what we're talking about.
Ben Loy:The
Alex Judd:reason why we are strong in freedom and responsibility is so that we can serve other people. And that's why it exists, and and ultimately, it exists so that we can glorify God. And that's the overarching principle behind all of this is it's all submitted to that aim because freedom for the sake of freedom isn't freedom at all.
Ben Loy:Mean, it just makes me think of Jesus. It's like what it I mean, Jesus took the responsibility for us so that we could experience freedom. Right? And I mean, if our calling is to reflect him in that way, like, yeah, it's really pointless to be pursuing this with the mindset of like, oh yeah, just want to build up and kind of counterintuitive to go, oh, I want to pursue more responsibility and navigate this wall so that I can create more comfort around my own life. It's like, no.
Ben Loy:This is for this is for the service and the the benefit of the people around you, the people that are in your life.
Alex Judd:Yeah. I mean, Garden Of Gethsemane. Right? Jesus, what do you want? A capital w want to be smack dab in the center of the father's will.
Ben Loy:Mhmm.
Alex Judd:What do you lowercase w want? I really want that if there's any other way, like, we do that because I really don't wanna do this. But he made the decision that the the actual want, the deepest desire, the spirit was going to conquer the flesh in that moment. And, wow, praise God that that's our example and that that's what we have to follow.
Ben Loy:If you wanted someone listening to this episode to take away one thing or to hear one thing, what would it be?
Alex Judd:There is so much available to you. You have you have no idea how much is available to you, but it will always demand that you take responsibility. Thanks, Alex. Thanks, Ben. Well, there you have it.
Alex Judd:Thanks so much for joining us for this episode. If you want any of the information or resources that we mentioned, that's all in the show notes. Hey. Before you go, could I ask you for one quick favor? Could you subscribe, rate, and review this podcast episode?
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