Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
In this podcast, Mike and Ryan discuss how to effectively run a meeting, and how to deal with people and situations that get your meeting off track. They talk about why face to face meetings are so fundamental and beneficial, given they are run well. They go over 6 situations that can derail meetings and how a good meeting runner can resolve them and “rerail” the meeting.
Welcome to Business Leader Breakthroughs where we help unlock the potential in you, your teams and your business. Hosted by Ryan Castle, along with Dr Mike Ashby, we share insights, experiences and stories on achieving breakthrough successes in business and life. In addition to a podcast, The Breakthrough also specialises in delivering management training that actually sticks, is cost effective, and easy to implement at scale to sustain change from the inside out.
Welcome to Business Leader Breakthroughs where we help unlock the potential in you, your teams and your business. I'm your host Ryan Castle along with Doctor Mike Ashby. We share insights, experiences and stories on achieving breakthrough success in business and life. In addition to a podcast, The Breakthrough is a coaching and advisory business that provides programs for business leaders, owners, and managers to develop your skills and capabilities to boost your business and enjoy a better life. To learn more click the link in the episode show notes or go to thebreakthrough.co.
Ryan Castle:Now let the breakthroughs begin. Mike on today's podcast we're going to talk about meeting magic.
Mike Ashby:Meeting magic.
Ryan Castle:Of course one of the topics in our active management program, I think we all know as business leaders that meetings are an essential part of how we run a run a business. Correct. They're certainly not the only only way. Yeah. And meetings done well are a very very effective tool in a in a business.
Ryan Castle:Meetings done poorly are an absolute killer.
Mike Ashby:When we worked exclusively with business owners, as we did for a long time, a lot of them we had to help them get over the line of being opposed to meetings. And that was because perhaps in their corporate world, in their corporate experience, meetings were a place to go and kind of, you know, put your brain leave your brain at the door. They took a lot of time from a lot of people. And a lot of business leaders have just got a kind of pathological distrust of meetings and that's just wrong. Know, they are still bringing people together face to face and having round table discussions.
Mike Ashby:It's just a really fundamental piece of human interaction. And no matter how virtual we get, and we know this because we've zoomed and kind of remoted for years, nothing replaces that face to face. F to F, we call it. F to F interaction. So it's really important that we learn how to run them well so that we will get the most out of it.
Ryan Castle:And meetings done well will beat an email chain all day every day? All day every day. The amount of you'll hear us talk about mindfulness at work as a critical concept, about developing the soft skills and emotional intelligence. You get to use a lot of emotional intelligence in a meeting because you read body language, you read tone, you can see where people's attention and focus and energy is. Yep.
Ryan Castle:You don't get to see any of that in some of those other mediums like email or Slack or whatever channels you might be using. Yeah.
Mike Ashby:And and we're big users of that stuff. We use WhatsApp. Use Asana. All those sorts of things. But nothing replaces the face to face meeting.
Ryan Castle:Run well?
Mike Ashby:Run well.
Ryan Castle:Done done in the right way. Yeah. Now, Mike, in our active management program, you talk about what can derail a meeting Mhmm. And there are there are several of them. So can you help us today with some of the what we might observe and that are taking our meetings off course and then how we might get them back on track?
Ryan Castle:Rerail? Is Rerail? Rerail.
Mike Ashby:Yeah. Rerail.
Ryan Castle:I did call
Mike Ashby:them Rerail. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Mike Ashby:They're the usual they're kind of the usual villains of of meetings. Let's start with, know, as we were talking about this, I immediately thought of the topic changer. Mhmm. And I can remember this guy. I was trying to facilitate a strategy session, and this guy had this nasty little habit of chiming in on the conversation on the discussion at point, you know, and kinda going, yeah, well, I think so and so is so.
Mike Ashby:But then, you know, I think what we also need to do, every time he would go off like that to the topic he wanted to cover. Every single time he would steal the conversation. And look, what do we do? How do we re rail that? The mindfulness at work pieces is what's really going on here.
Mike Ashby:Now at one level, we could follow that guy down that rabbit warren. That's not mindful. Mindful is here's our topic. Oh, this guy is, making a little comment about that so that he can segue off into his track. If that's what's happening, I as the meeting runner need to need to kind of manage that.
Mike Ashby:And you interrupt, actually, because what they're doing is rude. They're taking the platform and making it their own. They're hijacking the meeting. So the hijacker, you just go, yep. Look.
Mike Ashby:Can we just can we just hold on to that thought? You can let him finish or her finish, you know, just let them let them go and just say, good point. Let's just kinda park that one for the moment and come back to. So because you're running the process. You're the leader running the process.
Ryan Castle:Mhmm. Yep. That's a goodie. What about the, people that perennially turn up late to our to our meetings?
Mike Ashby:Yeah. Yeah. And it and I think everybody has this problem. One of the active management program clients said, the really interesting thing about this program is it's the only meeting. The collab meeting is the only meeting that people turn up to on time.
Mike Ashby:Great testament to the program Sure is. You know, and I think all you can do there is well, number one is be there on time yourself because as the leader, you set the tone. If you're late, everybody else will be late. So number one, be there on time yourself. Second, start on the dot.
Mike Ashby:Never recast, never go back over, you know, for the benefit of those who've come late, here's what we've been talking about for the last five minutes. Never. I used to wait, you know, when I was running seminars, I'd wait, oh, know, I need a few more buns in the seat, etcetera, you know. And somebody said, look, I made the effort to get here on time. How about you start?
Mike Ashby:Right. Fair point. So just start, and people will either work out that they're gonna miss out and if that's their call, that's their call. And then, you know, that's their choice.
Ryan Castle:Yeah. And I think when you first set a meeting up actually agreeing what the framework and the must haves for the meeting are so you get everybody buy in and begin it going, hey. You need to be here on time. We are gonna be starting on the dot. There will be no recap.
Mike Ashby:Yeah. Yeah.
Ryan Castle:Yeah. Setting those ground rules really helpful helpful as well. Yeah. Okay. What do you do with the dominator?
Ryan Castle:The person that just always wants to take over the conversation. There's always one. At least. Sometimes two.
Mike Ashby:Actually, as I think about it, it's probably quite often me.
Ryan Castle:And as our good friend and fellow coach Britta would say, and what will you do when you hold up the mirror?
Mike Ashby:Yes. Yes. Oh, I'll just turn it around. Yeah. Yeah.
Mike Ashby:What I tend to do with people who make a lot of contribution in the meeting, as soon as they I find a gap, cut them and move to somebody else and invite others to speak. And what do others think? And sometimes if it goes on, I will actually say, Ryan Mike, actually, let's be honest, mirror. Mike, loving your loving your contribution, but I'd just like to hear from somebody else. And all you're doing, again, you're just paying attention to the process.
Mike Ashby:Because people like me, we know we talk too much.
Ryan Castle:Beautiful voice though, we
Mike Ashby:love the sound of it. Dulce So, you know, I'm perfectly relaxed if somebody says, Taiho, you know, let's hear from somebody else. It's I know that it's the game. You're not offending anybody by just by just simply saying, you know, can we just just hold your view for a minute? Let's hear from somebody else.
Mike Ashby:Mhmm. Pipe, constructive and professional.
Ryan Castle:Yep. And what about when we get into this, repetition loop? Sometimes as individuals, sometimes as the whole meeting where we we feel like we're going round and round in circles, talk about the same thing.
Mike Ashby:Yeah.
Ryan Castle:We might be reinforcing what's already been said, but it has been said. Yeah. What do we do when we've got the repetition loop happening?
Mike Ashby:I think one of the great skills of a of a meeting runner is to summarize. It takes practice and practice and practice, and doing it deliberately and mindfully is especially when the conversation is starting to kinda loop, again, you're aware of it rather than running in the loop yourself. It's a simple summary that summarize that point the person is making. So what I hear you say is, dot dot dot, is that correct? And they say, whatever.
Mike Ashby:Blah blah blah. And they go, okay. So that. And you box it. And then when they come back to it, as they will, because these these tend to be one trick ponies.
Mike Ashby:They've got a thing on their mind and you say, but I think we've got that point, understood what you said. Got it. Now can we, you know and again, you just push the meeting to somebody else. Mhmm. People who are particularly fixated on things and people do get like that, I I even even I even I may get a bone that I want to kind of be somewhat dog like with.
Mike Ashby:Yes. I don't mind being told to kinda let it go, dude, you know, your kind of major point.
Ryan Castle:Yep. Yep. Loud and clear. Let's move on. Yeah.
Ryan Castle:And I think overarching here is one, the the mindfulness, so the awareness of what's going on in the room and Correct. That we are seeing these things. The second one is that term psychological safety within teams that we you know? Yeah. You're very comfortable with me going, Mike, we've heard you.
Ryan Castle:We've we've done it. We're moving on.
Mike Ashby:Yeah. Fine.
Ryan Castle:You know? And and you've gotta have that kind of trust in in a team to be able to do that effectively. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Ryan Castle:For sure. How about how do we handle the different types of processes? So in our team, we have
Mike Ashby:How do we handle these things?
Ryan Castle:A talk out loud processor. For those of you not on video, I'm point pointing at Mike. He's he can process very quickly, talks out loud. He can formulate ideas and make decisions very quickly. I am the, what I call the silent processor.
Ryan Castle:I just need I just need five or ten seconds of everyone could
Mike Ashby:you please shut up
Ryan Castle:so I can work my way. Five or ten. So I can okay. Maybe occasionally a little bit longer. So that I can process it.
Ryan Castle:I kind of map it all out in my head and then I'm I'm pretty quick to get into a decision. And then we have team members that are overnight processes. Yeah. So they're like, okay. Take that on board.
Ryan Castle:That's good. Yeah. I can't give you my decision, my feedback right now. I need to think about it. Yeah.
Ryan Castle:How how do we manage that in the meeting environment?
Mike Ashby:I think it is just understanding people's different processes, and they're pretty much the extremes. They kind of think out loud type. I can be saying to my wife early on in in our, you know, in our relationship, know, before we married and all that kind of stuff, we actually worked together. She'd say after the meeting, oh, I thought so and so don't out loud. And I'd go, why didn't you say something?
Mike Ashby:She said, well, you know, I was just kind of working out getting getting my points together and then waiting for the opportunity and by the time that happened the conversation had moved on and I said, oh, oh, look, I don't even know what I think until I start talking. And she her jaw dropped. She said, no. Seriously. Oh my god.
Mike Ashby:And pretty much from that day she did she started doing that she just dive in. Yeah. And look, her career just rocketed. Seriously. She made such a, you know, obviously a great contribution to make.
Mike Ashby:Sure. But just switching that that process. So she was too too much processing. As a as a meeting leader, you know, between you and I, you know, you and I have worked closely for a long time and and I have got to the point of zipping it rather than rushing, you know, when I've said something and you're sitting there and I'm thinking he hasn't heard, he hasn't heard, there is did I say anything? Is there anything actually going?
Mike Ashby:What? And I'm still waiting, I can just about set the timer and early on I would kind of jump in to kind of clarify or push you along or, you know, help you find the words because come on, come on, I've now learned I think, Ryan. Yes, you have. I think I just and I say to people, you know, with others in the room, like in our board meeting, I'll say to the chairman, just give him a minute. And I think in part that's part of the trust thing that goes on with a team and the meeting leader saying, Ryan, what do you think?
Mike Ashby:And then just waiting and and I think may I have even I think I've even done this. Probably have. I can remember times where people will want to jump in because there's a silence. It's just just just a second. So your job is meeting readers.
Mike Ashby:You are running the traffic, you know? And it's a it's a responsibility and a piece that you gotta pay attention to. And if you know that you've got an introvert or a or a process or a silent processor, you've got to give them space. And to that psychological safety piece, they've got to have space to process their thoughts and then and then deliver in their time. Yeah.
Mike Ashby:So again, it's just being mindful of how different people process things.
Ryan Castle:One more, what do we do when we find our meetings running out of time? Because that's a, you know, continuous experience for many people in many organizations where the meeting seems
Mike Ashby:to be
Ryan Castle:going well, they're deep, but
Mike Ashby:they're like, oh god, we've
Ryan Castle:only got like five minutes left left to do. What do we do?
Mike Ashby:I think again that kind of art of summarizing, trying to wrap the discussion and then, set up another meeting for another discussion. So this is where we've got to right here, and these will be the points that we wanna kinda take on going going into the next meeting. In general, we should probably and again, this is another kind of, what do they say? My eyes have seen further than my feet have trod. Yeah?
Mike Ashby:I always have a thing in presentations that I'm gonna run out of material. So I tend to kind of ease in slowly and warm
Ryan Castle:up and
Mike Ashby:then you have to run quite quickly at the end.
Ryan Castle:Yes.
Mike Ashby:So, yeah, my lifelong quest has been to, finish on time without just chopping a whole lot of content to say I will come back tomorrow and do that. And part of it is just pushing myself along at the start. And it's the same with meetings. And the other piece, of course, is to do the most important stuff first.
Ryan Castle:Yes.
Mike Ashby:You know, to be really careful about the agenda. I was in a board meeting where we always used to run out of time for the big strategy discussion. We'd spend all the morning and half the afternoon on operations. Yeah. And then, oh, how about our positioning and what's going on in the industry?
Mike Ashby:Oh, sorry. Got a plane to catch. My strong thing was turn around. Fuck. Did you know?
Mike Ashby:Start with strategy, start with the big picture, industry market, etcetera. And then at the end of this time, we can do the updates on where we're at with the operational stuff, the the management stuff.
Ryan Castle:And particularly in a board context, that's the that's the job of the executive team to running the operations. Yeah. Absolutely. Yes. Course, some insight from the board is useful, but work on those other other elements is is far more more critical.
Ryan Castle:That's
Mike Ashby:generally, that's true.
Ryan Castle:So because we know that one of the good things to do in a meeting summarize where we've got to, let's do that for this podcast.
Mike Ashby:Let's summarize.
Ryan Castle:Are you gonna do that?
Mike Ashby:Well, I think I would summarize my summary point would be the job of the meeting leader is to observe what's really going on. That's the mindfulness of workplace, which is what's happening in this meeting. It's actually very common sense in terms of dealing with derailers. It's perfectly obvious what you do with them. And you'd be professional and you'd be direct.
Mike Ashby:They get it. So long as you're both those things, so long as you're not, you know, rude and and Yes. And cutting them off. Yes. But the real key bit is to know what's going on.
Mike Ashby:Is that a summary?
Ryan Castle:I think it's the perfect summary because it's the if there's one thing you could take into your next meeting is to be mindful of what's going on in the room.
Mike Ashby:Pay attention to the dynamics.
Ryan Castle:Yeah. You're paying attention to those dynamics, as you say, they're actually pretty easy to manage if you're aware of them. Yeah. But keep that awareness front and center and you'll be amazed how much more effective and efficient your meetings become.
Mike Ashby:And and you just follow your instincts. You just listen to your own instincts and, gosh, this person seems to be hogging the airways. If you think that, they are. Mhmm. If you think that somebody is being negative, they probably are.
Mike Ashby:And a conversation with them outside the room or whatever, or that they're kind of hogging the agenda or staring at it. Follow your instincts and be deliberate about managing that process.
Ryan Castle:And bring active mindfulness to what's going on in the room but also to yourself.
Mike Ashby:Oh totally. Yeah yeah yeah.
Ryan Castle:And then you know it all starts with starts with us.
Mike Ashby:Yeah that's the hard one actually especially you know kind of talking too much and if you're running the meeting then actually You've
Ryan Castle:got all the best Well, course you have. Happens. Hold up mirror. Team. Appreciate you joining us today.
Ryan Castle:If you've got any insights in what makes great meetings work for you or experiences you had in your environment, Throw us a comment, drop us a line we'd love to hear and have those shared out with our audience. Thanks for joining us. Bye. Cheers.