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Long Game: A Heated Rivalry Podcast is a re-watch and deep-dive podcast dedicated to Heated Rivalry, hosted by Declan and Silvan. In each episode, we revisit key moments across the series, unpacking the slow-burn tension, character development, and emotional beats that make the heated rivalry world so compelling. Through thoughtful discussion, close reading, and a fan-informed lens, we explore themes of competition, intimacy, identity, and growth over time, celebrating not just the heat of the rivalry, but the long game it takes to truly understand these characters and their relationship.
New episodes published every Sunday
Declan (00:00)
Hi everyone, welcome back. This is part two of the episode six breakdown. So we're going to be picking up where we left off, which was at the fire pit with Ilya and Shane. They had a little bit of a moment together. Ilya really opened up about his past. And now we are moving on to the next great scene, which is the video game slash phone call scene.
Silvan (00:26)
I absolutely love this and I love that we're still at the cottage and we're taking our time at the cottage with these two characters.
Declan (00:33)
We worked so hard to get to the cottage where we had to hang about for a little bit.
Silvan (00:38)
Right, and I've seen so many memes about I never leaving the cottage and I don't know how we do that now that we're here.
Declan (00:44)
Yeah, no, it's well, there's always a better story to come. So let that be your consolation prize for having to give up the cottage eventually.
Silvan (00:54)
2027 cannot come soon enough, season 2.
Declan (00:57)
2027,
like I know they're taking their time and it's good fine, but God, that's so long. Do remember they used to crack out a Grey's Anatomy season 24 episode once a year without issue? Take me back to those days, honestly.
Silvan (01:12)
Right? Yeah, the golden age of TV. But yeah, you were talking about the scene where we get the phone call. Now, I really, again, I love these moments where Illya brings in the humor because they're playing this video game against each other and Shane is trash talking in the most polite Canadian way possible. Like I'm going to
Declan (01:19)
Yes.
Yeah
Silvan (01:39)
I'm going to beat you. Like it's just adorable.
Declan (01:43)
Yeah,
he's so sweet in this scene and you can see that you get the idea that maybe Shane doesn't get a lot of this. you don't like they do genuinely seem to be enjoying each other's company if I got such a nice touch to open the scene with as well. And then that joke is like my face is on the game. That was just great because obviously if anyone plays like sports games on consoles or whatever.
You do usually have the most famous player at that time on the sort of front cover of it. And the idea that it's Ilya for the hockey one is actually such a funny detail. ⁓ But yeah, no, it's such a cute scene and it's a nice sort of opener to get us into like the steamy stuff.
Silvan (02:24)
And you're so right because when we think about two guys hanging out, like I played video games with all my guy friends all the time and I still do.
Declan (02:33)
Yeah,
yeah, yeah. I don't know, I video games are just such a fun medium to share with your friends. And I like that they do know you can express a friendship towards one another. Like they don't just need to be the secret lovers in the dark. Like they can, you know, have fun together. They can hang out. They can they can chill. They can mess about and and have that sort of I think this is like one of the best things about ⁓
like being gay is that you're dating one of the guys. Like you're dating someone that usually shares all of your interests and ⁓ like is happy to sit down with you and play video games for four hours and you can both chill out together. Like it's one of my favorite aspects of being gay. So I like that they get to have that experience of like being able to hang with one of the guys and it's just fun. ⁓
So yeah, I just like, I like that element of it. It's, it's, it's really fun. It's a nice little touch. So it is.
Silvan (03:35)
I don't know whether this scene is in the book, but for me what this represented is this. You can see this is written from a male perspective as well. So Jacob Tierney wrote this, I believe.
there was something about the way these two characters are just hanging out doing very guy normal things.
Declan (03:52)
Yeah,
exactly. It's just, yeah, I think it's just been delivered in a way that feels quite realistic because I was sort of getting that feel, that experience of like, ⁓ it's like being with your best friend. It's like hanging out together. They're just like having fun. They're giving each other shit about the game. And Shane is trying to trash talk, which we know that he's incapable of doing effectively. So.
Yeah, no, I just like the details in it. I think it's just such a fun little add-on to start off the scene with. Also, this is under the book as well, this phone call is from the book and it's played very well in that as well. So yeah, I was actually looking forward to this. I was looking forward to seeing how they would handle this scene. ⁓ I think they've done it really well.
Silvan (04:41)
And you really see this playful side of Ilya coming out where Shane's asking him, don't do that. And Ilya's like, well, if you get hard, then I'll stop. But I mean, look at what's happening here. And there's this sort of the look that Connor Storrie gives as an actor and the hand and the way the hand crawls down the thigh. it's just so playfully done, but it's also it adds that
It's quite a scene, let's be honest.
Declan (05:09)
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's
a saucy scene like, but ⁓ I think we're trying to make up for the fact that we've had quite a lot of heavy content in this episode so far. been a lot of focus on the emotional attachment and, you know, the show is kind of building that reputation of being saucy in a lot of ways and for really showing that sort of real, raw and upfront sex. And obviously you're going to put in some, it's the last episode and you may as well make it as fun as you can.
That seems to be the general idea behind this and you sort of, you can see also a change in Shane and how much he's willing to risk or allow Ilya to push him to risk. Because Shane's on phone call with his best friend at this point and he is allowing Ilya to keep going. So he's like, no, it's a bad idea. Like completely halfhearted, not at all.
Obviously, but then just to have the phone call going on while Ilya's doing this to him, it adds a little bit of danger into their dynamic as well. I think Shane really likes that. He likes to sort of throw of it as well. It's like, I can't believe he did that. That was sort of crazy. But it's also Ilya learning to like push Shane's boundaries a little bit. Like he's just sort of subtly just giving him little shoves every now and again.
I think this is one of them as well. think that's what this phone call is for him is trying to push him a little bit more out of his comfort zone to be like, come on, let's, let's try this. You know, we're not going to get caught. It's fine. ⁓ which is the beginning of a trend, I think for the next book where. Bigger, bigger risks have to be taken for them to maintain their relationship. So yeah, it's definitely the start of a bigger element that will continue to play out as their story continues as well.
Silvan (07:06)
I like that you talked about sort of Shane taking more risk and pushing and Ilya pushing him to take those risks because for Shane, he says like, why was that so hot? And Ilya's response is like, because you like to be bad. And there is a little bit of Shane that wants to be the bad boy because he's not like sweet baby Shane is not a bad boy.
Declan (07:19)
Yeah
No, no, sweet
innocent child. Well, just look at his upbringing, just look at the way he goes on, the way he behaves, the way he's structured his life. He's like, everything is by the book. Everything is exactly how it's supposed to be. There is no rebellion. He can't even challenge his parents. He never says no. He just agrees to everything and does anything that he's told. So for him to do something a little risque, so on that, maybe a bit naughty then.
he's going to get a thrill out of that. And I think literally that is their whole relationship. That's how this thing starts. I Shane is looking for a little bit of rebellion and he finds it in Ilya who is like the stereotypical bad boy sleeps around. And then it just turns into something completely different and totally out of his control. Like I'm very interested to see like Shane's thoughts, like what's happening in his head with all this as well because
What started off as like a guy who never does anything wrong, never takes any risks he's doing so that he perceives to be like morally wrong. And it's now resulting in consequences that he's not intended. And I think this is why later in this episode, he has a bit of a breakdown when he's discovered is because like his morality and his moral world is like being called into question by everything that's going on and he's been caught out and he's terrified of consequence. So.
All of this stuff is just sort of very subtly being played out in the background while you're picking it up as the viewer and you're seeing the change in the emotion and the story and how everything is being sort of shown to us. And all of this is playing in the background while Shane is going through this huge big journey of self-discovery and redrawing of what he knows and what he feels is moral and right and principled. So yeah, there's
There's so much to this scene and some slay just seems to be a phone call with a blowjob in it.
Silvan (09:27)
I know who thought a blowjob would create seven minutes of discussion because I mean, seven minutes is the length of a porn movie really, when we think about, you talked about the shift and there is this shift and you can see the shift within Shane, but it also shifts the dynamic between both of them because Shane's response is very much, this isn't what this is, you know, maybe at first it was like this bad boy thing or this bad thing.
but not now, and it hasn't been like that for a long time. And you get this acknowledgement, finally these two guys are being honest and direct and communicating. We've been asking them to communicate for eight years, and now they're actually doing it. And I thought it was really interesting how Ilya responds to this. So when he says like, it's not been like that for a long time between us, he's like, so you love Hayden now.
Declan (09:55)
Yeah, yeah.
Silvan (10:20)
This is Ilya really pushing. I almost think Ilya wanted to say, love you way back when. And he's just finding ways to introduce it or to push it. And rightfully so. You talked about Ilya sort of pushing those boundaries a little, letting Shane get comfortable and then pushing them again. And I think this is what he does here.
Declan (10:25)
yeah.
Yeah, 100 % because I think Ilya knows that Shane perceived him to be like that in the beginning of their relationship and so I think that's why he's been so hesitant to be the one to speak out because, you know, ultimately it almost seems like it has to come from Shane. Like these changes, like this omitting and the changing of the relationship and the dynamic sort of has to come from Shane because Ilya is sort of is who he is and he needs someone to look
past the bad boy image to see what's underneath. Because he's going to struggle to do it on his own because as the fences are up, given his past, he is really, scared to express who he truly is as a person in a very like public way for somebody to see. And so it's almost up to Shane to kind of chase after that element of it to go, actually, I'm seeing behind the bad boy and I like it.
So, yeah, I think that's also why in the previous episode in the hotel scene, earlier, when Shane says, I really like you, and he's like, no, you don't. He's like, no, I really do. I think that is like Shane saying to Ilya, I like the person that's behind you, not just the bad boy front. Like, I like that person. And Ilya can't believe it. He's like, no, you don't. You don't like that person. You're you like the bad boys. No, I like you.
And that's a big moment for them. And I think it sort of carries throughout the rest of the episode, the number five episode and then number six episode. yeah, it's the change in their dynamic is subtle, but you can definitely see it and you can see the building blocks that brought it to fruition. And yeah, that's just good writing.
Silvan (12:22)
Yeah, and pacing. We didn't get it all at once. We couldn't have it all at once. It wouldn't be believable.
Declan (12:25)
Exactly.
Exactly. Why does a show work so well? Because they are together from the very start. Sex is fun but meaning comes from the emotion, comes from the romantic dynamic, it comes from longing and wanting someone for who they are. It's like what everyone dreams of.
Everyone dreams of being loved and accepted by a person for exactly who they are. I mean, it's what everyone craves. It's your whole biology is built around that idea. When you go out, to a club or you go out and you think of dating and anything like that there, that's your ultimate goal. Your ultimate goal is to be seen by someone who loves and appreciates you, despite the fact that you might have flaws that even you yourself don't like. So yeah, like the change in the boys is just...
It's done in a very subtle way, but in a really satisfying way for the audience to really cling to because it feels real. It's a real build up. It's, they're getting to know one another. They're seeing behind the layers. They're seeing each other's faults and what makes them so great. And they're learning to accept that. Yeah, I actually really love that about you. Like I love you the way you are. And that's, that's huge. It's, it's it's someone you don't really try to let go or get away from.
and life so yeah everyone buys into the story because that's ultimately what we're all after.
Silvan (14:02)
And you were talking about how sort of Ilya's pushing and Shane just needs a little bit more time to catch up in a way. And again, here we see this in this next scene where they're playing football out in the garden and Ilya brings up the passport for the first time, I think. And he brings up moving to Canada and definitely not playing for Montreal, although
Would it be the worst thing in the world if they played on the same team?
Declan (14:24)
like they say at the All Stars, like they are incredible together when they're playing so you know it wouldn't be a bad idea. I'm not going to say anything.
Silvan (14:37)
Okay, say less Declan. But he talks about moving and playing in a Canadian team to be nearer each other kind of thing. But he doesn't say that. What he's saying actually is, I need to not have a Russian passport, so I'm going to move to Canada. So that's what he's saying. The subtext is, I want to be near to you. I don't want to see you three or four times a year if we're lucky.
Declan (14:38)
Stay less.
Yeah,
yeah, yeah. It's crazy how even now they are dancing around each other. Obviously it's great TV but their inability to be direct with one another in ⁓ situations like this, I think it's because Ilya is risking a lot so he isn't saying this. He clearly fears the rejection.
which is why he's going about it in this sort of passive way in which we're sort of getting hints and suggestions and he sort of lets Shane come to his own conclusions and he lets him infer what he wants from it. But the thing is when you don't communicate directly, you leave a lot open to interpretation, which means you risk not communicating the correct thing. And I think that's basically what happens. then the following scene now when they're on the sofa.
But yeah, it's no coincidence that Ilya is taking this very roundabout approach to this because he's afraid that if he asks directly that he'll be rejected.
Silvan (16:08)
Yeah, definitely. you're right, Ilya is scared of this rejection. mean, anyone would be, right? Like, they've got two weeks together, and if he says the wrong thing now, it could be a really awkward week and a half.
Declan (16:23)
Or it would just be over. yeah, like the whole thing is just called off because if Shane's not willing to allow Ilya to make sacrifices to make it work, then Shane is clearly not going to sacrifice any of them self in order to make it work. So it would be sort of like a no go. there's a lot there. Like I think given Ilya's past, the fact that he has no family, that he's taken a massive risk, that he's in love with this guy.
Silvan (16:26)
Right?
Declan (16:54)
His potential to be hurt is probably higher now than it has been for a very, very long time. ⁓ Like he does not open up to people, so he doesn't and he's doing it with Shane and he's putting himself out there. He's taken a risk. He's in love with this guy. This guy has his heart in his hand and he's afraid of like basically letting him know that he has his heart in his hand in case he crushes it. And that seems to be his thought process whenever he's dancing around this sort of big issue.
Like he is.
Silvan (17:27)
And you can see that dance again in this scene where they're both on the couch laying down and he says, I could marry Svetlana. She has an American passport.
Declan (17:36)
Yeah.
Silvan (17:40)
And you can see why Ilya is asking. Like he wants, you know, the big grand gesture and Shane isn't giving it to him because Shane's eyes are welling up with tears because he wants to kill him for suggesting that Ilya could marry Svetlana for a passport.
Declan (17:56)
Yeah, yeah.
This is the thing, Shane struggles to read between the lines, so he does. Like this approach of Ilya's does not work for people like Shane. Shane needs to sort of be told what you want, but that requires it's too hard for Ilya at this point in time, so he's trying to do it in this roundabout way.
which like I said before opens up the interpretation. what Shane is getting from it is that, ⁓ you want to marry Svetlana? You don't want to marry me? Like, why don't you want to marry me? Like, you know, do you not see that for us? So like, so you're going to do that for citizenship? Like, does that mean you're going to be together? Like, what does this mean? And you can sort of see why he's getting upset because in his head he's like, he's not fully.
with me, he doesn't want to marry me, he doesn't want to all these things with me, these big milestones. Like you want to do them with somebody else? Like how could you say that? Like I'm here like nerdy in tears because you've said that. And it takes Shane then to have the bravery to go, don't marry her. That's Shane saying to Ilya, please don't. Shane is being more upfront at this point in time and he's giving Ilya the confirmation that he needs that.
Silvan (19:07)
Yeah.
Declan (19:18)
Maybe I don't need to do that then. Maybe I can do it with him at some point. Or we'll find another way.
Silvan (19:25)
Yeah. And it's interesting because I had a slightly different take on that when I was watching this scene because Shane asked Ilya, but you like women as well. And so for me, thought, Shane then questioning, Ilya, obviously Ilya is into Shane, that's without a doubt. But is there an ideal kind of life that Ilya is imagining? For example, does Shane think Ilya wants to settle down with a woman? ⁓
Declan (19:30)
⁓
Mm-hmm.
Silvan (19:53)
like Svetlana, even if it's not Svetlana, does he want that sort of traditional type of life that is not with Shane, for example? And so it almost feels like there's this, you know, probing familiar, like, hey, are we in? And Shane is like, are you out? And they're having almost two different monologues at the same time and not, but that monologue isn't together, it's separate.
Declan (20:01)
Yeah.
Yeah, there's layers.
Silvan (20:21)
And so their thought process almost feel like they're diverging in a path in a way. And yeah, get that sort of where they diverge, they come back together because Ilya then says like, he says something along like, like, I don't want that ever that problem to ever go away or something like that. ⁓
Declan (20:39)
Yeah, it's like the problem is that I'm in love with this guy. Like I, he doesn't say in love, but like he is obsessed with this guy and he can't stop thinking about this guy. And so that's a problem I hope never goes away. Sawing along those lines, but yeah, that's the general sort of, that's the general gist of it. And it's, yeah, it's sort of Ilya assuaging his fears being like, I'm not going to do that. Don't worry about that. I'm not going to do that. I just put it right there. I need to know where we stand.
you know, I'm in, I'm in. And as soon as Shane gets that off him, he's in like, time to plan. Completely, yeah, his strategy completely changes. And so he goes from like a passive actor in this whole thing to right, time to take charge. Let's see how I'm going to make our future happen. And it's, it's one of his
Silvan (21:20)
He changes.
Mm-hmm.
Declan (21:37)
best and strongest qualities that he can do that. And it's also so typically him that he is like the problem solver. Like he is, he's in it. He's trying to figure out how to solve it. And he's doing it all for Ilya. And that's sweet.
Silvan (21:54)
Well, he is Mama Yuna's child, let's be honest. Like she can problem solve and work a PR thing better than Kerry Washington in Scandal, I think. Olivia Pope level kind of PR. But I like the language they use here in this scene where they talk about it being a problem. And it almost casts me back to episode four with Rose about how they talk about, your sexuality isn't a problem.
Declan (22:08)
Yeah.
Silvan (22:23)
And I just loved this mirroring and this bringing this problem theme back because then not only is he getting it from Rose, like this is not a problem, but he's also getting it from Ilya. Like this is not a problem I ever want to go away.
Declan (22:38)
Yeah, yeah, it's not something I want to fix. Yeah, being obsessed with you. Which is objectively just a very romantic thing to say to so.
Silvan (22:48)
Right. to me, this almost reminded me of Brokeback Mountain when Jack and Ennis are on the mountain having this big old argument and you get that very famous line like, I can't quit you. And this is what the sentiment, the sentiment of this comes out in here, not the way they've done it, of course, because it's a different scenario, but this, can't live without you. I'm in.
Declan (23:01)
Yeah, I wish I could quit you guys.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah,
that's the thing. Yeah. And that's what makes the dynamics so difficult is knowing that the both of them are so attached, like they still have to deal with the realities of their lives. And I think it's important that Ilya does bring it up because this is huge. The two of them are like all over each other. They are in love with one another, like they're enjoying each other's company. It's very domestic and it's working for both of them. They both love this time that they're having together.
And that is all the more scarier because it's like, how do we get more of this? want, we're going to want more of this. what, how do we spend more time together? Like, how do we make this work? And yeah, it leads to this conversation, which is very emotional and, you know, is done in this very roundabout way that then has to, has to come to a close by them actually being upfront and honest with each other about it.
Yeah, there's a lot of growth in this in their relationship just told through these past few scenes. Yeah, it just really works and it works for taking us into like the high drama of the episode down like the discovery of the dad walking in.
Silvan (24:22)
Yeah. And even before we get David walking in, like you were talking about Shane literally being up all night and waking Ilya up and like, right, this is the plan. This is what we're going to do. We're going to start the charity. You're going to move up to Canada. We're going to be two hours apart. If people see us, it's going to be okay because it's part of the charity and we're going to shed this rival image. And it took me this long to realize, ⁓
People outside still view them as rivals because we spent so much time in this bubble between the two of them, I forgot they were rivals.
Declan (24:57)
Yeah, that's the thing. No, I think that's on that maybe the book does a bit better is that you can sort of it's more clear that the public view them as like these rival players who don't really like each other. But obviously. We get to see them together and like, oh my God, these guys are in love and this is so we don't get to see as much of that sort of element of things. But. Yeah, it's.
It's a small point, but it does mean that whenever it comes to this conversation where they're like, we need to scrub the rival image completely. Yeah, it sort of affects that a little bit, but not enough to really overly complain about it, to be honest. yeah, it is a small detail, but I'm glad you picked it up because it is true. Yeah, you don't really get a full idea of how huge their rivalry is ⁓ from the show, but you sort of get a sense of it more in the book.
Silvan (25:44)
Yeah.
This is like Brittany versus Christina back in the early 2000s. Like you just forget how much they were pitched against each other wrongfully. Wrongfully, have to, exactly. And the theme that comes in this conversation when they're sort of in the middle of the night for them is that of retirement. So, and I want to get your take on this because Shane says something along the lines like, then we can be together when we retire. And this theme of retirement isn't the first time we've heard it, right?
Declan (26:02)
have Lloyd Media.
Mm-hmm.
No.
Silvan (26:25)
We see this with Kip and Scott when Scott tells Kip, like maybe in a few years when I retire and that's when Kip sort of really pulls back, pushes the drink away and he's out. And I'm thinking about this theme because it almost represents this when we're old and we're done and we're done.
and we don't have any obligations to anyone or when we've made our money and we can just leave and not bother with anybody. I wanted to get what your take on that was because I have so much more to say about retirement.
Declan (26:56)
It's kind of like washing away your life to get to the good part, which I think we are honestly just... Now I'm going to get into a whole political rant here, so be careful and tell me to shut up if you want me to shut up. But we are hardwired to believe that we shouldn't enjoy our lives until we're in our late six ties whenever most of our life is done. And the only reason why you're taught to believe that is because people want you to work more.
They want to exploit you more. They want to make more money off you. They want you to be the little worker ant that you are and to only work and make them as much money as possible. you sacrifice so much in that. You give up so many experiences. You give up time with family and with friends.
Because you will not get that time back. You can make as much money as you want in the future. You will not get the time back which you spent with your family. yeah, just a little aside there. But this is the same thing. It's the same idea. These guys have to wish away their youth just for the chance to be together, to finally enjoy their lives together. Why should you have to do that? Like why should you be forced into that position? That's not fair. And it's immoral as well.
Why should you have to waste these precious years with the person that you love? All just to appease a wider audience? Like to appease people that don't give a shit about you? Who will forget that you exist every time you skate off the ice? it's just, yeah, an interesting theme for me to bring up because I do have like strong thoughts on it. ⁓ But yeah, in the context of the show, it's also just a summer dynamic.
trying to wash away your life so that you can finally get to the good part.
Silvan (28:49)
I'm so glad you said that because I feel like we're on the same page on that. And we did not discuss this beforehand. So it just shows how closely our thoughts are aligning because you're right, retirement for people outside of social us as people is the end of something. It's the end of your life. It's almost like you said, wishing time away. And it's incredibly sad because
Declan (28:55)
No.
Silvan (29:17)
We are programmed into it in a way, you know, in the same way that they are being programmed into thinking they can only come out when they retire. And so there are so many parallels to us as viewers watching this. And in a way, it reminds me as you're talking, like how people wish away the week in a way, it's like Monday to Friday, can't do anything. Right. Saturday, Sunday, that's when I'm going to program myself. That's when I'm going to have my time, when I'm going to have the fun time. And
Declan (29:37)
you.
Silvan (29:46)
I really jar with that kind of thinking because I wasn't brought up in the UK. And so when I came here and I came across this, was like, but what, so nobody does anything in the middle of the week? That's five days of places you can go, people you can meet, dinners you can have. And I get it. I get why that is the case, but there is this wishing things away and we've already seen them.
Declan (30:06)
Yes. ⁓
Yeah.
Silvan (30:15)
Quote unquote waste the last eight years worrying about this.
Declan (30:18)
Yeah,
100%. Like they could have been spending this time together. They could have been building a family, building a relationship. They would have, you know, it's always never, it's never too late to start, of course, but you can't help but grieve the lost time. It's, sad. So is. And I hate the idea of, you know, even myself, like in 20, 30 years time, wishing that I had done things differently because I waste so much time or so much of my life doing things I didn't want to do, which, you know,
what I'm trying to do about doing now. I've switched careers. I'm moving towards a different career path entirely. We saw one that I find more fulfilling and I find more purpose and flexibility with. So I'm very conscious of that idea and I do think it's implemented well in the show. someone that has a healthy mindset will not deal with this kind of crap, which is what happens with Scott and Kip.
Kip hears that and he goes, no, I like you. I actually love you, but I am not willing to waste years and years of my life waiting for you, missing out on living all just so that you can keep this image of yourself for your career. No, I'm not doing that. Whereas Shane and Ilya have sort of hardwired it into themselves and hardwired it into the relationship already.
⁓ like there are years on at this point, like to them, it's, they've created like a, a situation where it's, it's been acceptable, but it's becoming less and less acceptable as time goes on. The feelings have gotten bigger. They are now being as open and as emotionally vulnerable as Scott and Kip were from the beginning. And now they're going to be faced with the same sort of issues. Like, I don't want to wait for you to retire for.
me to be with you. Like how fucking sad is that? So yeah, it's a big obstacle. It's a big issue. And I'm glad that they bring it up now, especially in this season, because those kinds of themes, like the themes of, you know, wasting time and not being together fully in the way that they care, like those are big themes that are going to be introduced in the next book as well. I don't think that's too much of a spoiler. I that's obvious that's going to have to be a thing.
So yeah, yeah, very, very interesting you brought that up.
Silvan (32:51)
And I think for me, what this serves as, it's a catalyst now, because then we get Ilya saying, I love you. And this is the first time that they've said this to each other. And I thought it was really interesting how Ilya says this in Russian twice. I mean, he's nozzled up against Shane's neck, but he says it twice before he then says it in English. And then Shane has that realization.
Declan (33:14)
Yeah. ⁓
Yeah. It'd be interesting to know if Shane recognizes what he said from the phone conversation they had when he was in Russia. I think that would be a really cute detail. I don't remember if that is a thing in the book, but yeah, it doesn't matter. Either way, it's such a sweet moment and it's...
It's such a physical representation of Ilya opening himself up fully to Shane. It's like he's the little barrier there. He's still saying in Russian, he's saying in Russian and then it's English. He's fully opened himself up at this point. And you'll notice that from this point on, Ilya is a lot more direct about them in their interactions. So they are here like, I've done it, I'm open up. Now you got me and I'm just gonna be me. ⁓
it comes across in the way that his behaviour adjusts in the next scenes. Like he's not quite the same Ilya he's still funny, he's still a little bit cheeky but he's a lot more forthcoming with his feelings and what he's thinking and believing so yeah a really really nice little detail added on.
Silvan (34:15)
Yeah.
And even his body language changes very subtly. Like even in that scene, when Shane says it back to him, he collapses on him. It's like he's been holding so much in and he gets his affirmation like, he loves me back. And he just lets go. And I thought that was really beautifully done in that scene.
Declan (34:34)
Yeah. ⁓
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah,
that emotional catharsis finally happens.
Silvan (34:51)
Yeah, and I wonder if this is the first time someone has told Ilya that he is loved apart from Svetlana since Ilya's mama's died, for example. I can't imagine a lot of people saying that.
Declan (35:04)
Yeah,
I mean, his dad is his dad. His brother hates him, actively hates him. he does the opposite of love. So apart from Svetlana, sort of that familial love, that friendship love, which is a very important love in itself, and it's never ever to be underestimated. Having someone new that doesn't know him, get to know him from very scratch.
all the way to the end to every little crevice of his life to then after all of it say I love you. Again it's the acceptance it's that need for someone to accept who we are in our entirety and love them for you like regardless of it so yeah beautiful moment.
Silvan (35:53)
Yeah.
I wanted to get your take on when Shane asks Ilya does it fucking kill you too? And then Ilya responds, not anymore.
I have mixed thoughts about this, but I wanted to get what your take on that was.
Declan (36:17)
think at this moment in time, if Shane says, you want to come out to everybody? Billy would say yes.
He has gotten the one thing that he wants. He has it. He doesn't care about anything else. I think he would drop hockey at that moment in time if he thought he could be with Shane forever. That is all he wants. Ilya's goal in life is to be loved, wanted and loved and cared for. And he loves hockey. He loves to win. But this is more important to him.
Whereas with Shane...
He's still torn. He is a hundred percent he's in love with Ilya. But is that love stronger than his love for hockey and his love for the way that his life is and for the quiet that he has and the peace? He's still fighting that argument. He's still fighting that himself. I think. I think that's what it means. Like, does it kill you to kill you to be so torn up about this? To not know what you want and to to be torn between two loves? No.
I only love one thing. I love one thing more than anything else and that's So I do think Ilya loves Shane more than Shane loves Ilya. Not like by a huge margin yeah it's telling so it is of where Shane's head is right now. Shane isn't fully ready for all this.
Silvan (37:51)
no, Ilya is a couple of steps ahead and he's just patiently waiting. He's like, he'll catch up. He just needs some time and that's okay. And that's what love is. Love is patience and it's kindness. And I'm going to start quoting a walk to remember here because that's what they say in that movie. But yeah, I won't. won't. ⁓ And so we talked a little bit about the spiciness of this episode with the call to Hayden and then the blowjob scene. And then
Declan (37:56)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Silvan (38:21)
I thought it was really interesting how immediately after this I love you declaration, we get a sex scene after this. And you can see a lot, like I'm not complaining. And again, Charlotte Hunter or Jacob Tierney really love this recovery position that they have some of the guys in, because you can see lines so beautifully. But like, good Lord, when Shane puts his thumb in Ilya's mouth, like I'm like, ⁓ I could just...
Declan (38:27)
Bye.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
That's all
I'm going to do. ⁓
Silvan (38:50)
⁓
my goodness, are you kidding me? Like, and then he's like, just fuck me. I'm like, wasn't he already doing that?
Declan (38:59)
Yeah, yeah, it's, again, I think trying to find a balance, but also it's, it's now become an expression of their love. So it has, it's become something different. more, it's a different meaning now. So it does then just a quick flop, just to feel good for a bit. I think that's what that is. That's the, that's the final step of like, when we're being intimate, it's more than just physical now. It's emotional intimacy. It's, it's the whole package. This is.
the dream. This is the best kind of sex that you can have with someone that you are head over heels in love with and that you feel safe and intimate with. So yeah, I think that's why that's in there.
Silvan (39:39)
and without being cheesy, this is now they're making love. They're not just having sex anymore.
Declan (39:42)
Yeah,
exactly. it's the more upfront way of showing it.
Silvan (39:52)
but it is heated rivalry and we still have to get like a little titty grab and a thumb in the mouth and a kiss of the nipple. Keep giving that to us because they know their demographic.
Declan (39:54)
Just that way you gotta get a little ass like obviously if he did rivalry
Yeah.
Silvan (40:06)
And what was really interesting about the post-sex scene is you get the scene at the lake, right? And throughout this whole episode,
The scenes have felt quite short to me, like they're a minute or less. And especially, you know, when we contrast these to the previous scenes in previous episodes, they feel like they're longer or there's a lot more dialogue for some reason. And I feel like for me, what that does, it sort of portrays what happens when we get these characters alone You know, it's these, it's a series of just normal, mundane looking things.
Declan (40:26)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Silvan (40:41)
This is them being in an actual relationship now. There's no hyper arousal. There's no sympathetic response because they've only got an hour to have sex and one's got to leave the room. There's no flashes. There's no big explosions. And to me, this episode almost feels like a collection of quiet moments.
Declan (41:02)
Yeah, yeah, it does. It feels like an indie art film. That's kind of what it's like. It's like a glimpse into someone's life. It's a slice of life. So it is. That's kind of what you're getting, but with a very particular theme of a relationship trying to blossom, but is restrained as a result of sexuality. That seems to be the general sort of, I don't know, like tone of the whole thing.
Like you get these very artistic looking shots like when they're out in the lake, it's it's like darkly saturated and it's quite intimate and they're very hidden and ⁓ Shane is out of the water observing Ilya just admiring and Ilya is being free and like I think that's a good metaphor as well for where they're sort of with it with this whole thing like where they're sitting with it.
Shane still feels a little bit alone in it. He still feels a bit removed from the situation. He's afraid to jump in so far. Like he obviously he's a man of his love and that's very true. ⁓ But Ilya is the one that's swimming freely and he's enjoying the water and he's not being restricted and he's not in this cold isolated place.
So yeah, there's the contrast there as well. Like everything is quite artistically done and it's told in a very art house sort of way. And I just really, I think it's a really interesting stylistic choice and it's a good way of communicating changes in their relationship and the dynamic. So yeah, the whole thing just sort of works for me. I think this episode is so good. It's just really good TV.
Silvan (42:43)
Yeah, good Lord Declan, you're good, because I didn't even think about that. And you can do this without notes, I hate you so much. So in my head, with my notes, what I had was, ⁓ Ilya's playing mermaids. How fun is that?
Declan (42:50)
You
But he is, he's having fun. He's free to be who he is at this point in time and he feels safe and while it's all secluded and dark and it's hidden. He's the one that has the freedom of movement, he looks relaxed, he's fine. Shane is one that's tied up, he's cold, he looks isolated. ⁓
Silvan (43:18)
Yeah. Yeah. And
Ilya is playful. He's like, give me kiss. There's this cuteness aggression to it where you want to like bite the cheeks of a baby kind of thing. And ⁓ I wonder if you can talk about this scene because this is different from the books, from what I've been told through TikTok. So I believe that in the books, they're actually on a dock.
Declan (43:28)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, go ahead.
Yes, they're on the dock. That's right. And they're actually in the water together. So they are and they're being playful and, you know, just just being themselves and messing about and more of that sort of like guy friend sort of we're just chilling. We're having fun. It's when they get out then and they then kiss on the dock. And then that's when the father sort of sees them through the glass. So it is so that's when that all kicks off.
you
Declan (44:17)
so again we're kind of running over here so
We're going to divide this again. this is going to be part two there. I'm so sorry. There's so much content for us to talk about. We have been going at it for hours at this point. So yeah, we're going to stop here for this one. We'll meet you again in part three and yeah, we'll pick up where we left off there.