From Court Side to Campaign Chaos: Who's Being Played in 2025?

We kick things off with Breaking News from the WNBA: the Golden State Valkyries are under fire after cutting fan favorite Caitlyn Chen without a word. We dig into what this says about how women's sports are handling visibility, diversity, and audience trust in 2025.

Then, in our evergreen conversation, we go deep on the Democratic Party. From David Hogg’s rebellion and Bernie’s legacy to voter disillusionment and the party’s identity crisis, we ask: can the Dems ever truly represent the working class again? And if not—what’s next?

Creators and Guests

Host

Harrison Fish

Harrison Fish is a dynamic personality and co-host of Wake Up! Provincetown, a lively morning talk show airing every Friday from the Provincetown Brewing Co. With a passion for community engagement, Harrison has become a staple in Provincetown, where he is also a working professional in the service industry. Since moving to Provincetown in 2016, he's dedicated to supporting local businesses and bringing people together through meaningful conversations. His work combines his love for broadcasting, entertainment, and activism, creating a platform for diverse voices in the heart of the town. When he's not on-air, Harrison can be found supporting local theater and the arts.

Host

Kristen Becker

What is Queer Times?

Produced by the Provincetown Recoding Studio, Queer Times is the unapologetic, high-energy queer news podcast you didn’t know you needed. Hosted by comedy legend Kristen Becker and razor-sharp commentator Harrison Fish, this Provincetown-based show delivers a weekly breakdown of the latest in LGBTQ+ politics, pop culture, women’s sports, and whatever else we want—served with a side of chaos.

From breaking news that impacts queer lives to deep dives into the absurdity of today’s culture wars, Queer Times isn’t here to play nice—we’re here to wake up, sheeple! Whether you’re looking for biting analysis, unfiltered rants, or just a reason to scream into the void, we’ve got you covered.

Buckle up, because this isn’t your grandma’s news hour—these are Queer Times!

Kristen: 00:15

And we have breaking news for this week. What do you wanna talk about?

Harrison: 00:18

Yeah. So last week's episode, we talked all about women's sports. Yeah. And we did record that a few two months ago. Yes.

Harrison: 00:26

But there has been so many things that have happened in the world of women's sports since then. But specifically this week, there's been so many things happening. We're filming this on the Friday before this episode is released. But tonight slash last Friday is the opening games for this year's WNBA season. That's really exciting.

Kristen: 00:46

Yeah. Are we gonna watch together?

Harrison: 00:48

Yeah. I kinda wanna watch the fever Chicago game tomorrow slash last Saturday. What time? I don't know.

Kristen: 00:55

Okay.

Harrison: 00:55

It might be even be during the day.

Kristen: 00:56

Alright. Okay. Great.

Harrison: 00:58

But as the season has been getting going, there's a lot of things happening. Let's talk about some of the positives first. First of all, I think this might be the first time that all of the preseason games were streamed live and free on WNBA League Pass and also on television. They have a new deal with, I think, ION TV Okay. Where they're showing up a lot of their games, which is incredible.

Harrison: 01:20

It's like, how can you have fans if the fans can't watch it? So I think this is a really great thing moving forward in expanding the culture. And what's really fun about the preseasons games is they're not typically playing their starting five. Because the goal isn't to win per se, it's to

Kristen: 01:37

Work it out. So I think all sports are the same. Right? If you're tuning into the NFL, you know, the preseason game, you're gonna see the the the starting QB for the first quarter Exactly. Maybe.

Kristen: 01:47

Yeah. Just enough to make sure that everything's loosened up, make sure that the teamwork is there. It's about chemistry. It's about seeing what the other team has to offer. Mhmm.

Harrison: 01:55

But one of the things about the WNBA specifically and what is being talked about a lot right now is that they're saying it is one of the hardest sports in the world to make roster, and we've seen that over the past couple weeks. So the WNBA draft happened right after the end of the NCAA tournament. And typically, each team will have about fifteen, sixteen, 17 players in their training camp, and all the teams have to have 12 or less players on their final roster before the season starts.

Kristen: 02:25

There are 156 total roster spots available. Right. So out of every all of the colleges, all of the people, all of the women who are playing, there are only a 56 spots

Harrison: 02:37

Yeah. In the world for

Kristen: 02:38

the WNBA.

Harrison: 02:39

Yeah. So a lot of people's favorites after watching them in college will be drafted. And then, I mean, I think only if you look at the draft class from, like, two or three years ago, there's maybe five, six, seven, or eight players still in the league because it's so difficult to make a roster spot. If the WNBA has

Kristen: 02:58

a 56 roster spots, the NBA has 560 players.

Harrison: 03:03

Yeah. So That's because they have they have bigger rosters, they have more teams. And also the thing about the NBA is they have a g league, which is basically like a what's the word? Like a

Kristen: 03:13

It's a minor league.

Harrison: 03:14

Yeah. Exactly. So the Triple a. Yeah. Their hurt players will rehab in the g league, or they'll stash some players there to see if they can work it out.

Harrison: 03:22

And the thing

Kristen: 03:23

about Or Bronnie James will live there his whole career.

Harrison: 03:25

Oh, drag him.

Kristen: 03:26

I'm kidding. I love him.

Harrison: 03:27

So Kate Martin. So Kate Martin was kind of the other player on Iowa besides Caitlin Clark. Okay. She's isn't a truly an incredible basketball player, but I don't I think her closeness to her proximity to the Caitlin Clark served her well. She was drafted in the second or third round last year.

Harrison: 03:50

She onto the Las Vegas aces. The Golden State Valkyrie picked her up as one of their expansion

Kristen: 03:57

You think it served her well because she looked like a better player for having played with Caitlin Clark? No. Because my first thought would have been, oh, then you're in someone's shadow the whole time. And you other than this phenom, you would have been the best would she have been the best player on the team had she not been playing with Caitlyn Clark?

Harrison: 04:17

Maybe, but I don't think the team would have been very good.

Kristen: 04:21

Okay.

Harrison: 04:21

The thing I'm not saying she is an incredible basketball player, and I do what I'm what I mean when I say her proximity to Caitlyn Clark, Caitlyn Clark has a lot of fans. Right. And her and then there's Kate Mars Martin, her bestie who's there. People started to love her because they were watching the game and she has a lot of fans. I might get cancelled for saying this, but almost like a Kelly Rowland Beyonce thing.

Harrison: 04:44

We love Kelly Rowland. But if she wasn't in a group with Beyonce, would she be as famous as she is now?

Kristen: 04:50

But yes. No. She would not. She would not. She would not.

Kristen: 04:53

She would not.

Harrison: 04:54

But so and I kind of was like, oh, the Valkyries want to lean in to, like, having a fan favorite, get some eyes on them, and I think that's really great. I don't think if Caitlin Clark I mean, I don't think if Kate Martin was was not on a team with Caitlin Clark, I feel like she would have had a really incredible basketball career through the through the NCAA. And I feel like it probably would have ended there or she might have gone overseas to play, but I don't think she would necessarily be in the league. She is amazing. I'm not saying she's bad or anything.

Harrison: 05:23

Then the Golden State Valkyries drafted Caitlyn Chen. Caitlyn Chen, I feel like is similar thing. She did her most of her college career at Princeton.

Kristen: 05:35

Yes.

Harrison: 05:36

Yes. Most of her undergraduate career most of her undergrad at Princeton, she got her degree there. And for her fifth year of eligibility, she transferred to the University of Connecticut, and the fandom there just fell in love with her. Yeah. And I think it's another situation like her proximity to AZ Fudd and Paige Beckers and the Yukon organization as a whole.

Harrison: 05:56

She came to the draft to support Paige Beckers who is the expected first draft pick, which she was, and ended up getting drafted as well. Yes. And there's all these clips of people celebrating that and Paige Becker is being so excited for that because Paige Becker is the coolest person in the world. And so she got drafted by the Golden State Valkyries as well. And I was like, that makes sense.

Harrison: 06:16

They're gonna do the same thing again. They're they're like, oh, that's so smart. They're gonna do a team of fan favorites because an expansion train team typically has a few years to really get going. So they're I imagined they were like, oh, we we're not gonna be the best team at the beginning, so we're not let's get fans a different way. Right.

Harrison: 06:33

So I figured Kate Martin, Caitlyn Chen, and I was really excited. Caitlyn Chen went to training camp. They had her throw out the first pitch at a Giants game. They really pushed her. Her jersey was the best selling Valkyrie's jersey you could get.

Harrison: 06:48

And they they really lauded the fact that she was the first Taiwanese player ever in the WNBA. Right. And especially in the in the Bay Area, I think it's 30 or 40% Asian Americans living

Kristen: 06:59

in the Bay Yeah.

Harrison: 07:01

And I was like, this all makes sense. This is amazing. And then typically as training camp happens, you'll get announcements, roster updates, and they'll be like, thank you so much to this person. They were absolutely incredible, but they didn't make a roster a roster spot. We look forward to looking at you in the future, and we wish you all the best.

Harrison: 07:20

But the Golden State Wait.

Kristen: 07:21

So if you don't make the roster oh, the roster, not the starting lineup.

Harrison: 07:25

No. The roster.

Kristen: 07:25

The team. Yeah. You didn't make the team.

Harrison: 07:28

Yeah. These teams typically

Kristen: 07:29

She didn't make the team.

Harrison: 07:30

No. Well and the way they didn't announce it in the way they typically announce to players, which was which is here's Caitlyn Chen, a picture of her. Thank you so much. You didn't make roster, unfortunately. And instead, they just released their final roster, and people had to find out that Caitlyn Jen didn't make it simply by her the omission of her name on that list.

Kristen: 07:51

Did they do that? Thank you so much. Good luck in the future. Deuces post for the other people who didn't make the roster.

Harrison: 08:00

Yeah. They did an announcement waving Cheyenne Sellers, which was earlier. And a a lot of fans are very upset. You look at any of the Golden State Valkyries TikTok videos or their Instagram posts, and every single comment, was like, was a fan until you dropped Caitlyn Chen. Wow.

Harrison: 08:14

And people are feeling like they used her. They had her come in, really propped her up, used her her notoriety. Notoriety, her identity to get eyes on them and then didn't end up taking her. And the thing is, I haven't mold this over enough to know where I fully stand on it, but a lot of these teams, they have 12 players on the roster and two or three of them play five, ten minutes the whole season. I don't quite understand why they didn't just put Caitlyn Chen on the team.

Harrison: 08:48

And I know that might be I know that I know that I the what I mean when I say I haven't really thought it through is, like, that is taking it away from someone else should and who could be a better player. You know what I mean?

Kristen: 09:02

My I guess I have a few questions. Is there any opportunity or because I I actually don't understand how the WNBA works in trades and etcetera, etcetera. Is the is she now a free agent? Could another team pick her up? Have the Valkyries maybe been in discussion with another team?

Kristen: 09:24

Like, I'm I'm wondering if because if so, you know, the Valkyrie is selling those jerseys. I I don't know. I'm wondering if this is a developing story in that, oh, Caitlin, they're gonna get this media. Because, I mean, even a a hate like is a like. A hate share is a share.

Kristen: 09:43

Right. And that is the media age we live in now. Right? So the idea that they stirred up controversy doesn't surprise me.

Harrison: 09:50

That is an that is an interesting question, and there is some there is some information around that. So, we brought up we just brought up Cheyenne Sellers who, like we said, was waived for the Valkyries. She was waived much earlier, and the Atlanta Dream basically pulled her into the training camp at the Atlanta Dream. Okay. So basically, she flew out to Atlanta, worked into their training camp with the opportunity to make their final roster.

Kristen: 10:11

Prior to them announcing

Harrison: 10:12

their final. But the Valkyries, like I said, didn't give Caitlyn Chen a roster update. And they kind of did it so late that most other teams had already announced their roster as well. So there's nothing left? Yeah.

Harrison: 10:27

There's an opportune I think she basically stays in the Valkyrie's training camp. Like, she could be pulled into training camp again next year.

Kristen: 10:37

Well, I mean, that's my question. It's like.

Harrison: 10:39

So there was another player who commented on a TikTok video and be like, she wasn't she was like, she wasn't good enough. Yeah. Yeah. Which I which I also understand. But and this is I wonder if this is a problematic viewpoint.

Harrison: 10:54

I think the WNBA, as they learn and grow and try to bring in a better a bigger fan base, should they be doing should they be prioritizing people with huge fan bases?

Kristen: 11:07

A DEF hire? A diversity, equity, and fan base hire? Like, here are my questions. How much did she get paid for the time spent? No idea.

Kristen: 11:18

Does she receive a cut of those jerseys?

Harrison: 11:22

No. Really? That's one of the biggest contention points in in in the WNBA right now. And Kelsey Plum has spoken up a lot about this, who's a new player on the LA Sparks. She is like, I'm not trying to get paid the same amount as LeBron.

Harrison: 11:36

I want the same percentage as LeBron. Right. They get a percentage of their jersey sales. The WNBA does not. Because all of these agreements were put in place well before Anybody got famous.

Harrison: 11:48

This huge this huge increase in viewership and fandom. And now, Kelsey Plum's jersey is selling out Paige Becker's, Caitlin Clark, and they don't get any of that money.

Kristen: 11:58

When you say that I hear that the negotiations between the team and the brand may have been established. Right? So Nike and the Valkyries may have had their deal, and it's a ten year deal, and this

Harrison: 12:14

I think I think the w m well, the WNBA has a deal with Okay.

Kristen: 12:19

Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. So the WNBA has a deal with Nike, etcetera.

Kristen: 12:22

The team's decision to profit share amongst their their players should be able to change every year. Right? That would be my Yeah. Like like, I don't think I don't think that that holds a watery. Well, this was negotiated before they got famous.

Kristen: 12:38

Right. But we live in 2025. Right. And it doesn't take a man or a person riding horseback across country to tell you about a thing. We could be able to move at a little bit of a quicker pace.

Kristen: 12:49

And because if if that were the case, if it's like, hey. We're gonna give you a shot, and it didn't work out, but you made a pile of money from us selling jerseys with your name on it and, you know.

Harrison: 13:01

Right. So basically, that is all part of the collective bargaining agreement, the CBA. Yep. The CBA is an agreement between the WNBA and the WNBA Players Association outlining the terms and condition of employment for players. So all of that is a part of it.

Harrison: 13:16

The current CBA agreed upon in January 2020 was scheduled to expire at the end of the 2024 season, but the WN EPA, EPA, the Players Association, opted to terminate it at the end of the 2025 season. Interesting. Yeah. I'm actually I wonder if they were like, let's see what more momentum we can get behind it.

Kristen: 13:37

Right. Like, This is growing. Let's not cash out now. Yeah. Let's ride it for one more year, make this even more popular and have a stronger bargaining chip when they go to the table.

Harrison: 13:45

Okay. I will say something about the WNBA as a fan. I cannot stand the commissioner. It's this woman named Kathy Engelbert and I just I feel like she's the one who needs to go if they want the WNBA to succeed. Like we've talked about last week, the unrivaled blew up and they asked her about it and and I'm summarizing the vibe, but the vibe was like, oh, it was so cute that they did that.

Kristen: 14:13

Yeah. That is giving woman hating woman. Instead of being like, I think it's great that our players have an opportunity to actually make money playing the game they love. And, technically, I'm excited that unrivaled is subsidizing my players.

Harrison: 14:33

Right.

Kristen: 14:34

Like, that that would have been a fun answer.

Harrison: 14:36

You know? It's just over and over again. Like, she wore I know the final game of the WNBA finals last year was in New York, but she wore a New York themed dress to the game when it's the New York Liberty against the Minnesota lynx.

Kristen: 14:53

So you think that as commissioner okay.

Harrison: 14:56

As commissioner, wear any other dress. Any other dress. Okay. Just one more thing before we move on. Yeah.

Harrison: 15:04

Yeah. Yeah. Know I could talk about this for hours.

Kristen: 15:06

I know.

Harrison: 15:07

Really exciting for potentially for me and us. So this past week, Connecticut Sun sought out a financial institution in assisting them with the sale of the Connecticut Sun. The sale might potentially come with a relocation.

Kristen: 15:23

To Boston.

Harrison: 15:24

To somewhere, but I'm hoping Boston. Mora Healy, this past March, in an interview said that she want she thinks Boston is an amazing market. They deserve to have one and that they are a team they are a city that should have a women's basketball team and I fully agree. I didn't know that Mori Healy was a professional basketball player at one point.

Kristen: 15:46

Is she tall?

Harrison: 15:47

Yeah. She played four years at Harvard and then two years in Austria professionally.

Kristen: 15:55

Do you think have you know, when you just said Harvard, was like, do you think that did Caitlyn Chen get a degree from Princeton and then transfer?

Harrison: 16:03

Yeah.

Kristen: 16:04

Okay. I was just like because there was one where I was like, dang. I guess if I didn't I went and got a UConn degree, no disrespect to UConn, and not a Princeton degree, and then I didn't make the team, it would be sticky.

Harrison: 16:14

I think she ended up getting either I'm not positive, but I think she got another degree or her master's or something.

Kristen: 16:20

Okay.

Harrison: 16:20

I would love to have a a women's basketball team in Boston.

Kristen: 16:24

And what would you call it, Harrison?

Harrison: 16:26

Okay. I I think a lot of times, less in recent years, but they often, like, kind of pair it with the MNBA team that is in the city. I'm trying to think of an example. Like, the Charlotte Hornets, I think was an m n b a team. It was.

Harrison: 16:43

And the Charlotte team was the Charlotte Sting. Okay. So I'm thinking Boston Celtics, m n b a. Boston Pint? Oh, sorry.

Harrison: 16:53

Yes. Boston Pint. I'm into that.

Kristen: 16:56

No. Sorry. What did you

Harrison: 16:56

The Boston luck.

Kristen: 16:58

I like it. Yeah. The Boston luck. Luck be a lady. Wow.

Harrison: 17:04

Perfect. It's perfect. Wow. Wow. Wow.

Harrison: 17:06

Okay.

Kristen: 17:07

Alright. So fingers crossed for the Boston.

Harrison: 17:09

Yeah. And I'm I feel like I'm gonna have to work for that organization if they come to Boston somehow.

Kristen: 17:14

Yeah. No. I'm sure that's a job for a man. I love it. You're like, I can't wait till we get a WNBA team so I can get a job.

Kristen: 17:24

No. It's not for you.

Harrison: 17:25

I would love to work in the organization of that. Alright. Alright. And, like, the promotion, the marketing.

Kristen: 17:30

Well, you would be great in any organization. I we've started an organization together right here.

Harrison: 17:35

True. True. True.

Kristen: 17:36

Look at that. I believe in you.

Harrison: 17:37

We're just gonna have to start releasing, like, two episodes a week and one of them being about women's sports.

Kristen: 17:41

I think that they're I think that you're gonna start a TikTok where you hop on our account and give a WNBA update twice a

Harrison: 17:49

I'm into

Kristen: 17:50

that. I think that's Yeah. The best use of all of this information. Because I and and then I'll watch them and learn, and I'll know what to talk about when we get here. Yeah.

Kristen: 17:57

And I just wanna put this out there that the WNBA league pass is $34.99 a year. It is incredibly affordable. And even if you're not a WNBA fan, but you like ladies, you should probably just get a WNBA league pass. And if it's not your vibe, find some broke lesbian, give her your login. Do you know what I mean?

Kristen: 18:20

And so if you can spend $35 a year on something that will have a direct impact on the future of women in sports, I think this is a great time to do that. So I'm gonna do that.

Harrison: 18:31

And also, like, if you're if you're thinking even there's an a tiny bit of an idea that you might wanna get into women's sports, reach out, see if anyone you know is is into it, and watch a game with them. It is contagious. I took one of my friends, Eden, to an unrivaled game, and she was like, oh, I don't know. Blah blah blah. By the time the end of it, she's like, I love this.

Harrison: 18:53

Yeah.

Kristen: 18:53

Yeah. Live sports is there's a reason why it's popular. And particularly in a time when you need a distraction from what's going on in the world, I find sports to be a great distraction.

Harrison: 19:05

And also she was, like, 60% watching the game, 40% checking out the hot players.

Kristen: 19:10

Correct.

Harrison: 19:11

She really had a thing The hot audience. The she really had a thing for the referees.

Kristen: 19:14

I was gonna say, oh, yeah. No. The refs get people.

Harrison: 19:16

She was like, I don't know that I've been in a space that has this high percentage of hot lesbians.

Kristen: 19:23

And it it just you know, there's a lot less people yelling, very good.

Harrison: 19:29

Yeah. You know? There's just a lot

Kristen: 19:30

there's, like, a lot less of that, and it's an enjoyable sport experience. So Mhmm. We covered breaking news about the WNBA. We're rolling into our our fifth episode. Is this episode five?

Harrison: 19:41

Episode five.

Kristen: 19:42

We talk about the Democratic Party. Yeah. Make sure you like and follow and subscribe. Do us a favor this week. Just share that you like this podcast.

Kristen: 19:51

Yeah. Just like go on your socials. Your Facebook. Your whatever it is you do. Give it a little share.

Kristen: 19:58

Tell people you're enjoying it. We are very grassroots. We need all the help we can get, but we're having a great time. We wanna keep doing it.

Harrison: 20:05

Yeah. And everyone who does listen says they enjoy it. I'm you're something that other people will enjoy.

Kristen: 20:12

You're technically giving them a gift. Yeah. Give the gift give the gift And us a gift. Of us. Give the gift of us, and we'll receive the gift of us.

Harrison: 20:21

Yeah. Okay. Bye.

Kristen: 20:23

Queer is in. Welcome back. It's the Queer Times. Yeah. Welcome back to Queer Times.

Kristen: 20:32

Welcome back to Queer Times.

Harrison: 20:34

Okay. Today, our topic is the democratic Party. The Democratic Party. I grew up where my father very much was like, I'm not a member of a party. I, every time, will do my research, do my due diligence, and vote for the person who I think is best.

Harrison: 20:52

But I do think at around 2,005 when I was in high school, said, But it's been a very long time since I voted for a Republican. Yeah. And I think that kind of still stays true for my parents. I'm lucky enough to have very kind of left leaning liberal parents. The arguments me and my dad have about politics tend to be both coming from the left.

Harrison: 21:16

Like, luckily, I don't have to argue with my dad about Trump things, but we get to argue about, like, the best way to implement health care for all.

Kristen: 21:25

ICE had a pretty democratic union upbringing, moved to Louisiana, and was still pretty union. Our base was union. And therefore GM Right. Union blue collar workers who are now Trumpers for reasons

Harrison: 21:43

Interesting.

Kristen: 21:44

Number one, older. Number two, Fox News and living in Shreveport, Louisiana for a long time, I think, really was part of it, but mostly the last twenty years probably. So, you know, there's been a lot of watching television and watching Fox News, and it's what old white guys do. Yeah. Now you know?

Kristen: 22:05

And and, like, I wanna say that without being condescending because, you know, you don't wanna be like, wow. Really? That's you believe all that? We don't really talk about politics in my house, in my family anymore. My sister and I are pretty aligned.

Kristen: 22:17

Mhmm. I don't need to be aligned with people I that I love and respect. I don't need to be aligned with them, but I certainly don't have to like their choices or hang out with people who think that I'm less than.

Harrison: 22:30

Yeah. I mean, I'm very lucky, and I I would say privileged to not have had to be confronted with, like, who do I want to keep in my life Who has different views than me? The family that is on the periphery that kind of is more in line with the right and Trump kind of found themselves out before any of this went down for other reasons. I mean, I remember in high school when it was the kind of I was in civics class. It was it must have been around the two thousand and four election.

Harrison: 23:00

And I remember, obviously, we're talking a lot about it in class, I it was my first big confrontation. I was like, wow, everyone around me is a Republican. I grew up in Connecticut, but in a very rural area of Connecticut. A lot of farm industry in that area, and a lot of all the kids in my class, there was out of the 25 of us, there was maybe 10 people who seemed to be more Democrat leaning, and then the other 15 were Republican leaning. And I remember I was flabbergasted.

Harrison: 23:29

Kind of and mostly because I was looking at what the party stood for, and I was like, why would you like that? You know? And I remember I created like a quiz. I did like the 20 biggest hot button issues and then was like, do you think this should happen or this should happen? Then on the end it told you whether you are more aligned with the Democratic Party or the Republican Party.

Harrison: 23:51

I gave it to the class, and I wasn't shocked to find that more people were aligned with the Democratic Party when it was just, Here's the issues, here's two stances on it.

Kristen: 24:03

But they identified as Republicans.

Harrison: 24:04

Yeah, and it also didn't change after they found out. I remember being really frustrated, and I remember my civics teacher very much being like,

Kristen: 24:12

That's the way it is. Politics is identity.

Harrison: 24:15

It's not necessarily identity, but it's not based on policy very often.

Kristen: 24:21

No. But it is about so when I was maybe about ten years ago, I was doing a lot of southern touring, and I was I was going trying to get as many queer southern people to sit down and talk to me and recorded all these conversations. And at one point, there was this lovely group of people who were like, we'll just do, like, a a circle in the yard. We'll put a fire on, and and and we'll have a conversation. We can record all of it.

Kristen: 24:47

It was great. And I had a great time. And I remember someone saying that and I'm gonna use the f slur if allowed.

Harrison: 24:57

Not that I'm the person to say yes or no, but I'll say yes.

Kristen: 24:59

Will you accept? Yeah. And for listeners, here it comes. But he says, oh, it's way better to be a fag than a liberal around here. It's like, we can handle your homosexuality.

Kristen: 25:10

We absolutely cannot handle

Harrison: 25:12

your liberal. It's like as long as you're So

Kristen: 25:15

when people are like, where do law cabinet Republicans come from? This is where they come from. They come from being raised in a culture that is Republican.

Harrison: 25:25

And also, as I talk about the DNC, I know I'm not particularly criticizing the DNC as a whole. I'm mostly criticizing them around their presidential campaigns, their presidential platforms, because I do feel like the Democratic Party from state level down does really great work. And they're a little more

Kristen: 25:46

We're talking about the national.

Harrison: 25:48

Yeah. I think on the state level, Democrats really work really hard for the things that people need. And I don't think that that is true of the national Democratic Party and the presidential campaigns that they put forward, policy positions. Because, mean, maybe this makes me a conspiracy theorist, but in the past four months of the Trump presidency, there's been a lot of talk about oligarchy, and I think because it has been so brazen within the Trump presidency with having Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, all of these other billionaires at his inauguration, things like that, it's a little more in everyone's face. But I don't think

Kristen: 26:33

the Democratic Party is- For the working class?

Harrison: 26:37

Is different. They're right there with them.

Kristen: 26:41

Well, and that's the problem, in my opinion, that they've run into, is that they used to be the party of the working class, and they are no longer the party of the And you can't say, oh, boo hoo, these billionaires, but, like, our billionaires are great. Yeah. Right? Like, you you can't do that. Yeah.

Kristen: 26:58

And so they do have an identity crisis right now. And so much I'll be honest with you. Part of the reason I think Trump won is because the Democratic Party snuffed out its rebellion. Yeah. There Trump started with the Tea Party.

Kristen: 27:21

The Tea Party were the obnoxious wing Yeah.

Harrison: 27:24

It was very fringe.

Kristen: 27:24

Of the Republican Party, according to Republicans. Bernie was the left's tea party, and what the RNC didn't do was squelch it. The RNC was like, I guess if

Harrison: 27:38

Well, let's not say they didn't try. I think they tried to for a minute. They all didn't when Trump was first involved in the Republican primaries, no one took him seriously. Everyone thought he would fail.

Kristen: 27:50

Agreed. But when he didn't fail, they let him succeed. Mhmm. Bernie was not failing. They made sure he failed.

Kristen: 28:00

Mhmm. That's a huge difference between the RNC and the DNC. The Republican National Committee was like, we don't like this. We're gonna do everything we can to stop it. But if the people wanna push it forward, they will.

Kristen: 28:15

And I I mean, I guess I don't know. I just feel like everything that went around the Hillary Bernie situation lost the confidence of most of the people on the left in the DNC.

Harrison: 28:31

Especially younger generations. Especially younger generations. Yeah. And, I mean, if the Democratic party was half as good at fighting Republicans as they were fighting the left, Trump never would be president would have been president.

Kristen: 28:45

It's it's also something that, you know, I also I think the thing that I forget about is the Obama situation too. Right? Like, was that the progressive party, the progressive wing of the Democratic party that was pushing Obama forward, and did they allow that to happen versus and and and was it was that happening the reason why they couldn't allow it to happen again with Bernie because they owed it to Hillary? And and that's kind of how I feel about the Democratic party is they are constantly in this place where they're like, oh, wait. But did but okay.

Kristen: 29:28

We let Obama sorry, Hill. Our bad. We know it was supposed to be you. We know you earned it. But the groundswell from Obama was just too much.

Harrison: 29:36

Yeah.

Kristen: 29:36

And we couldn't be racist. Right. And so Hillary says, alright. We'll go next time. And next time goes, and Hillary's like, okay.

Kristen: 29:46

This is my time. I'm a little more distanced from some of those scandals. Here we go. And then the Bernie swell begins. And the DNC was like, hell.

Kristen: 29:56

And she was like, absolutely fucking not. Not for another white guy. Right. And that's what happened. I don't know.

Kristen: 30:02

I just feel like it's always happening amongst five people in a room who are deciding where all of the resources are gonna go.

Harrison: 30:08

Yeah. I mean, the the DNC doesn't feel like they are committed to democracy. Seems like they are

Kristen: 30:16

It seems like they don't quite believe in it.

Harrison: 30:18

Yeah, and you can see little bits of it, and especially in what's happening right now, but you look at the whole VoteBlueNoMatterWho was definitely created in some five person brainstorming session in the DNC headquarters, and it's literally, Don't think too hard, just vote for us, which I think was a losing strategy.

Kristen: 30:43

Like, there's no it it's a losing strategy, and it's and the fact that they're still doing that

Harrison: 30:51

Yeah. And they won't let it go.

Kristen: 30:53

So David Hogg is has raised is the vice chair of the Democratic National Committee. And if you don't know David Hogg, David Hogg is the survivor of the Parkland shooting Parkland High School shooting who dedicated his life from that moment on to making this country better, particularly when it comes to guns, but not specifically and only exclusively when it comes to guns, and has worked his way up and became vice chair of the Democratic National Committee and has said, hey. I raised $20,000,000, and we're gonna start to primary Democrats who are sitting on their asses, basically, and Democrats who are doing the status quo. And is changing the perception within the Democratic National Committee or was trying to. And the DNC just came out and said, no.

Kristen: 31:45

Don't do that or you gotta go.

Harrison: 31:47

Yeah. Which reeks of antidemocracy. You know? Like, what is within the Democratic representative system, what is the problem with giving people more options?

Kristen: 31:59

No. It's it's this two party system is it blows my mind, quite frankly, that in a country this size, we really think that two options are enough. Like, there's just no way that you can have this many people.

Harrison: 32:15

Especially when, I don't I mean, obviously, I don't I'm not a part of the Republican party. I kind of don't not that they don't care what they do when it comes to the candidates they put forward, but I'm not enough in that process because I don't need to pick the prettiest turd. But within the Democratic party, they specifically haven't given us an opportunity to choose. The last true unadulterred primary I feel like we've had within the Democratic party was 02/2008. Like, you've already brought up how they meddled with the Bernie Hillary situation in 2016.

Harrison: 32:55

And then you look at the 2020 primaries, the first primary Pete Buttigieg won. Bernie came in second. The second primary Bernie won. And then Pete Buttigieg, had won 50% of the primaries, dropped out to endorse a candidate that got- that wasn't anywhere near the lead. And then everyone else dropped out, dropped out, dropped out in order to endorse Joe Biden.

Harrison: 33:24

And in order to, like, consolidate support in order to be Bernie because Bernie was doing so well. And you have to ask why. And as a reasonably intelligent person with fairly decent cognitive ability, I can't think of a real reason except for oligarchy corporate control. Like, those are the only reasons I can think of why they would need this establishment Democrat to be in place rather than a person who is push pushing for better labor practices, higher minimum wage, health care for all, all things that are good for the majority of Americans, but not good for the insurance industry, corporations. Like, that's the only thing I can come up with.

Kristen: 34:12

I'm gonna play a little bit of the other side, but the same. Sure. What if it's not that deep?

Harrison: 34:18

It's just like, he's our friend.

Kristen: 34:20

Yeah. What if it's not that deep? And it Bernie's always been the guy on the edge who's like, you're wasting too much. You know, like, Bernie's always been on the fringe Yeah. And has never bowed to the establishment.

Kristen: 34:34

And the establishment really likes you to bow to it, which is why a Buttigieg bowed. I mean, Buttigieg military service, like, if you if you're gonna ask a guy to be a team player, he's gonna be a team player. Mhmm. Particularly as a newcomer on the federal level. Mhmm.

Kristen: 34:47

I feel like it's as simple as who gets invited to the parties, the people who are out at other events. The people who are doing the politicking and not the actual work, the people who are who are more concerned about the elections than the legislation, like, I feel like those people were taking care of their friends. Like, I and and I'm sure that it's influenced by corporate spending. I'm not saying that. Obviously, is.

Kristen: 35:16

You know? Obviously, anybody pushing back against corporate profit is going to get cut out. And I think that that's the key is that it doesn't matter if it's democrats. It doesn't matter if it's republicans. Right.

Kristen: 35:26

Whoever is gonna cut out cut the profits of the corporate and the big business structures is gonna be the candidate that nobody wants. No. Definitely. And that is the problem. And what happened here, I think, Republicans somehow got convinced that that wasn't gonna that the Republican base got convinced that Trump was not for the global elite, which is When he was when he's the worst Yeah.

Harrison: 35:57

Out of all of them.

Kristen: 35:58

So I had hoped that we were going to be on the cutting edge of a regrouping with the DNC.

Harrison: 36:09

It seems like at this point, it's going to be a hostile takeover if it happens at all.

Kristen: 36:13

I don't think it's gonna happen at all. Their response to David Hogg, and specifically his plan was to primary incumbents in safe seats that he deems ineffective. So basically saying, listen. You're a democrat in a blue district. You're they're going to elect a democrat, and so I'm gonna primary you.

Kristen: 36:34

Not in not in purple areas. In in blue, this is a safe way to light a fire under the ass of some incumbents. And the DNC was like, absolutely not, kid. Get the fuck out of here. And this young this young man, who's 26 now, has done more for awareness and bringing the youth vote into the DNC than anyone else, I think, in the committee.

Kristen: 37:04

I mean, obviously, AOC is incredibly effective, but this is somebody who's not in in an elected office. And so to treat their own like that, instead of just listening, I hope he starts a third party.

Harrison: 37:20

I think I like, yeah. But, also, I think that is a a losing battle to start a third party. I hope

Kristen: 37:28

I

Harrison: 37:28

I mean, the thing

Kristen: 37:28

is It has to happen. It can't just be these

Harrison: 37:31

two. It has to hap the thing is is, like, it can't really happen until the Republican party realizes.

Kristen: 37:36

It's not gonna die. You have to kill it. Yeah. It You can't kill it if everyone's playing on the same team.

Harrison: 37:42

But it but I agree. But if it's a fifty fifty split, and then you split one half into twenty five twenty five

Kristen: 37:49

But I I I think that for the same reason that we talk about the Democrats and the Republicans are the same because they're they're oligarchs on both sides. Mhmm. I think that the third party pulls the cop the proletariat out and make makes a third party that doesn't every every time we say third party, we're like, oh, it's gonna cut the Democrats in half. And what I think is happening is the groundswell of class and wage disparity and all of that is going to cause a third party that will pull 50% from Republican, fifty percent from Democrat, because it will pull the poor people or the working class voter.

Harrison: 38:24

No, I agree. I think there is a political platform to run on that could do exactly that. If I were to run, I would run independent. I would run on a heavy Americana visually themed campaign, and you run on populist ideas that help people. Like?

Harrison: 38:46

Healthcare for all. People are truly having a hard time living in America.

Kristen: 38:51

Literally living, staying alive.

Harrison: 38:54

Yeah, and the reasons that they're having trouble is because they don't have healthcare. They're in massive amounts of medical debt. There isn't an opportunity to better yourself by through higher education. And all of those things, if you were to run on a platform that would make the average person's life easier and more fruitful, I feel like there is a way to do that. But I also kind of think that's where Bernie was in 2016.

Harrison: 39:25

You can look There's kind of a statistic where of an amount

Kristen: 39:29

of Bernie Do you think that Bernie would have beat Trump in twenty I also agree with that.

Harrison: 39:33

Yeah. But I think there's also a statistic of an amount of Bernie supporters that jumped ship from the Democratic Party when he lost the primaries to go over to Trump. I feel like a lot of kind of centrist liberal people use that as a way of demonizing Bernie. Like, Oh, people who like Bernie like Trump too, which means Bernie must be a monster like Trump, which I don't think is true. I just think especially in that moment, the Democratic Party was pushing forward the most establishment candidate you could ever, ever imagine.

Harrison: 40:12

And then Trump won on this Anti establishment. Anti establishment drain the swamp, and there were plenty of people who could see through it to the monster that Trump was, but not everyone. Right. You know what I mean? And I feel like that truly was the tipping point.

Harrison: 40:28

And I think of the Democratic Party truly reinvested in working class people and young people. I think the biggest mistake in them pushing back against David Hogg, like you already said, he has done more so than anything to engage young people. And in the same way people have the idea of Bernie Sport is going up to Trump being a derogative against Bernie. People will sit there and go, Young people are lazy. They don't want to come out and vote.

Harrison: 40:58

And it's like there's nothing It's a zero sum game for them. Their lives are still going to be challenging for the reasons they're challenging, whether Trump is there or not. Whether it's Trump or whether it's a Democratic candidate winning. And I know there are issues within there like trans people, queer people, people of color, but it's hard. You have to give people a reason to go out and vote.

Harrison: 41:26

I mean, you look at the last election in 2024, and there were out of the amount of eligible voters. 90,000,000 eligible voters didn't win. 75,000 voted for Kamala Harris, seventy seven thousand million. Yeah. 75,000,000 voted for Kamala Harris, seventy seven million voted for Donald Trump, and 90,000,000 people stayed home.

Harrison: 41:52

There's so often this conversation about the Democratic Party needing to pull people over from voting for Trump. That's always, we gotta convince those Trump voters to vote.

Kristen: 42:02

You have to you have to motivate.

Harrison: 42:04

Yeah. Those people are the idea that it's this like there's a in the spectrum of Trump are like right to left. There's a delineation of like, this is where the line where people go from Trump to Kamala to Trump to come. It's like, it's not that.

Kristen: 42:21

And they they do refuse to acknowledge their role in disenfranchising their own voter.

Harrison: 42:25

It always frustrates me when it comes to like, whenever I'm like, you have to give young people something to vote for, but they don't come out and vote anyway. I'm like, that's kind of the point. Like, the older generations, they vote.

Kristen: 42:38

Correct. So that's that's why they wanted a cop. They're like, if it's gonna be a vote of color, let's have her at least have cop history.

Harrison: 42:43

Also, like, they're coming, if you can count on them, forget about it. Meaning, not like, if you have a restaurant and this group of people is coming and this group of people isn't coming, you give those people a reason to come. If these people are going come no matter what, you cater to these people so everyone will come. You don't cater to someone who's already a guaranteed vote. If they're going to vote for you no matter what you do, do something that makes other people vote for you.

Harrison: 43:15

But when it comes to AOC, I understand and I have that fear as well because, I mean, a lot of homophobia is based on misogyny, so I like have a glimpse into how misogynistic our country is. And also, I see it all around. So I, I like, have a similar fear. But at the same time, I think if a candidate came out and was like, I'm going to do health care for all, I'm gonna make higher education affordable, I'm gonna make the public school systems better, I'm going to tax billionaires. But what would you do

Kristen: 43:48

once they were assassinated?

Harrison: 43:50

Well, I just feel like if someone, anyone came with those kind of things, it would be a landslide.

Kristen: 43:58

Those ideas never get out of local politics. This is this is this is the part where it's like I think this is why I'm excited for somebody young to do something new because it is so entrenched. You hear this with, I heard it when I would lived in Buffalo. Like, knowing who was in they called Erie County the Wild Wild West of Western New York, of of New York state politics. Because it's, like, entrenched in, like, South Buffalo old boys club Irish guys who pass it down to someone's nephew, and then it's somebody like, the it trickles down.

Kristen: 44:35

The the lack of democracy trickles down to your local government and figuring that part out. And and those ideas don't make it up the chain because those ideas won't make it on a national level because those ideas will not get funded by the corporations that you need the money from to win the elections ever since Citizen United.

Harrison: 44:55

Yeah. But, I mean, AOC wins elections without I I I feel like the

Kristen: 45:00

AOC wins a very specific election.

Harrison: 45:04

I I kind of don't agree with that.

Kristen: 45:07

Okay. Just don't agree that

Harrison: 45:10

corporate money is this, like, superpower when it comes to elections. It has been because it's there's no example of doing it without it. There just isn't. There isn't an example of someone being like- There's never been a candidate for presidency who's been like, And I'm not doing corporate money. To say it wouldn't work is- it's kind of unfounded because there's never been an opportunity to say that it's like, yeah, the person with the most corporate money tends to win because but the other person the most

Kristen: 45:42

money tends to win. Yeah.

Harrison: 45:44

But I think the reason those policy positions like Health Care for All, things like that, don't work on a national level is because they It's not because people don't vote for them, it's because they're not given the opportunity to vote. Yes. When have we ever been able to vote for a candidate who is running on

Kristen: 46:05

a platform of healthcare for all? Obama? Yeah, that's true,

Harrison: 46:09

and he won.

Kristen: 46:09

When Kamala was like, I'm gonna make sure that you can all buy a house, that's when I knew we were fucked. Why is the most out of touch thing. Yeah. It's like, how could you ever do that? Heard in my life.

Kristen: 46:23

And that is when I seriously began to question my affiliation with the Democratic Party. That they that's what they came up with as the appeal to everyday Americans who cannot afford rent in any city in this country Mhmm. Working. You can't what is it? You can't afford a two bedroom apartment on on minimum wage in any place now.

Harrison: 46:51

I I hear that statistic a lot, and I'm just like, where's the place where I could afford any apartment on minimum wage? Is that the thing? Could I make $7.75

Kristen: 47:04

an hour No, there's nowhere. There's nowhere.

Harrison: 47:07

Then why are we using the statistic of a two bedroom apartment? Yeah. When I hear a statistic, I feel like it's a losing argument because when people are like, when I hear, Oh, you can't afford a two bedroom apartment anywhere on minimum wage, I'm like, Do people think you could?

Kristen: 47:23

I think when you say two bedroom, you imply family.

Harrison: 47:25

Mhmm.

Kristen: 47:25

And so they're saying, like, you can't build a family anymore. Yeah. And building a family is key on the populace. Mhmm. List of things to do is to make all the babies.

Kristen: 47:37

So I think they're trying to appeal to that. Yeah. But that was certainly like, that was just for me the moment where I was just like, I have never seen like, it's just so out of touch. Mhmm. The Democratic Committee is so out of touch with what it's like to be an everyday American at this point.

Harrison: 47:53

And also, like, when you say something, I'm gonna make sure every everyone can afford a house, that's terrifying to anyone who already owns a house.

Kristen: 48:00

What do you mean?

Harrison: 48:01

How do you make it so that everyone can afford to buy a house without lowering property values? You know what I mean?

Kristen: 48:10

I guess so.

Harrison: 48:11

Either you're going to make the minimum wage $50 an hour so that people could put

Kristen: 48:17

I can't believe no one ran on raising the federal minimum wage.

Harrison: 48:21

Yeah. Well, the thing is, Bernie has been running, or there's been this movement for a $15 minimum wage for the last fifteen years.

Kristen: 48:31

No, now it's too late. Now it's gotta be twenty.

Harrison: 48:33

Yeah, now it'll get done in five more years, and everyone

Kristen: 48:35

will be like, We did it.

Harrison: 48:36

But that $15 we were fighting for in 2010 is $35 Yeah. I mean, I would take it one step farther than David I don't think the I'm like, yeah, let's primary safe Democrats. But I think the best way to gain ground and beat Republicans, I think we should be running super like if Like far left. Yeah. Rather than primarying safe seats, seats that we know we're gonna lose, let's throw a crazy leftist in the mix and see how it works out.

Kristen: 49:15

You know

Harrison: 49:16

what I mean?

Kristen: 49:16

I like that idea.

Harrison: 49:17

If we're gonna lose anyway, let's let's figure it out. Let's let's try something.

Kristen: 49:22

I'm here for this. Yeah. I would okay. If you're gonna lose anyway. Yeah.

Kristen: 49:28

That's a really smart idea.

Harrison: 49:29

In these definite red seats, let's see if you throw someone up there who is let's raise

Kristen: 49:36

Who's kind of like a Democratic libertarian. Not a Democratic socialist, but a Democratic libertarian.

Harrison: 49:41

But I think if AOC ran on her platform against any republican anywhere, she would

Kristen: 49:50

What's her gun take? Very much. It would depend on it would depend guns. Guns would depend. That would be the thing.

Kristen: 49:56

I've Because that's the thing that really riles up those red districts.

Harrison: 50:03

Feel like the gun debate is starting to enter the kind of abortion conversation where the obviously the conversation around abortion and abortion access is important right now. But I'm speaking of like before all of this, when Roe v. Wade was the law of the land, 80% of Americans thought that people should have access to abortion. Yes. But it was still viewed as this fiftyfifty issue because politics made it that way.

Harrison: 50:35

Republicans know that there is- of that 20%, a lot of those people that- a lot of those people within that 20% are going to vote on a single issue, and it is abortion. They're gonna vote for the candidate that is pro life, so that's

Kristen: 50:56

why the Republicans add that to their policies. I think that same percentage feels the same way about guns.

Harrison: 51:05

20%? Yeah. Think that's what I'm saying. I think the gun reform issue is this fiftyfifty thing. I think more than half of people know that there is a need for there to be a change in gun laws.

Harrison: 51:23

I mean, you have to think, like, since 2016, it's been eleven years, eleven years of new voters in the system aging into voting age that were-

Kristen: 51:35

Have been shot

Harrison: 51:36

at. Potentially been shot at, or are seeing people their own age peers on TV being shot at theirs and had spent their entire childhood doing drills just in case. It's about activating those people.

Kristen: 51:55

The doing the drills just in case part just fucked me up little bit. Yeah. That's like because I was thinking about, oh, yeah. We used to do tornado drills. We used to do

Harrison: 52:01

Fire drills is all we do.

Kristen: 52:02

Storm drills. Right. Because these are things that are out of your control, and you need to be prepared for things that are out of your control. But the gun thing is we'll have to do a gun episode.

Harrison: 52:12

Yeah. Oh. But I just think trying to like, shaming a generation of young people, and by young people I mean 40 and under, millennials and Gen Z, shaming them for not coming out to vote when what you're offering them is Trump or some 80 year old, some 80 year old rich person who spent their entire lives in politics who has no idea what it means to actually pay a student loan payment, who has no idea what it means to have absolutely no chance of ever owning a home in their lifetime. Like, they're not gonna come out and vote for that person.

Kristen: 52:46

What I feel like I want the DNC to be like, we don't care what the federal law says. We are gonna set term limits for all of our candidates.

Harrison: 52:57

Yes. Do you

Kristen: 52:58

know what I mean? Like like, something where all Democrats are gonna go, we we understand the importance of new voices Mhmm. In political decisions.

Harrison: 53:05

Literally seeing that the DNC doesn't want that in this moment.

Kristen: 53:09

Correct.

Harrison: 53:09

I mean, when it comes down to it, I'm really just hoping that the DNC really looks inward and also outward and creates a strategy that is a winning strategy, and it's winning because it's beneficial to everyone and all people within The United States.

Kristen: 53:26

Well, it's redefining who they are and who their base is.

Harrison: 53:29

I

Kristen: 53:31

my moral of the story is this immediate response to David Hogg And James Carville, who I used to kind of really love actually as this Louisiana person, calling a kid a twerp for thinking differently or, like, pushing the expectations that they have for their party is just gross. And it's not the way to do it, and it's not gonna win any hearts and minds, and it's not going to engage young voters. And it's the exact the DNC just did the exact opposite of what they needed to to respond to this. Mhmm. And for those reasons, I'm out.

Harrison: 54:07

You're never voting for the DNC again.

Kristen: 54:09

I'm just having a really hard time I get that. Identifying

Harrison: 54:12

I hope that I

Kristen: 54:13

never stupidity. Like, you're identifying with that.

Harrison: 54:17

I I mean, through my experiences being around older people, whenever I present my opinions, I'm often met with a you just don't understand.

Kristen: 54:29

Sure.

Harrison: 54:30

And I hope that I never become a person as I age that thinks simply because I'm older that the experiences of someone who has gotten to the age of 25, 30, 40, their experiences and their perspective is just as valid as mine. And time, that extra twenty, thirty, forty years does not bring twice, three times, four times the amount of wisdom. I think it's simply a perspective thing, and I think we're the DNC is showing that they are untrusting of people that aren't themselves and people who don't look like them.

Kristen: 55:11

I think that it is I think there is something to be said for experience, but I don't think that means that conversation shouldn't be had. When when you bring an idea to somebody who's older and more experienced and they say, oh, you just don't understand, for me, that's when I go, oh, explain it to me then. Mhmm. Because I'll lean in on that. And then the more you explain to me and the more I counter that I do in fact understand Mhmm.

Kristen: 55:35

I don't think anybody should be blessed with just, oh, you think it? It's real. Great. No. Challenge it.

Kristen: 55:42

If you bring an idea to me, and I work with kids all I'm almost 50. I work with young adults all the time. They bring me an idea, and I go, and then they're like, and I'll explain why. And I'll be like, well, what about this, this, and this? And then they go, oh, I never thought about it that way.

Harrison: 55:56

I also but I also don't think the only measure of experience is time.

Kristen: 56:01

No. But with time is the opportunity for more experience. Like, I don't think that it's the only one, but I think that, you know, a a person who has lived their life in their one small town who's never left who does the same thing over and over again at 60 probably has less experience than a 30 year old who's lived in four different communities and has traveled even just this country. Right. For sure.

Kristen: 56:21

But I'm not saying that I just think that with time, there is more chance for experience. Not that everyone has that experience, but there's more

Harrison: 56:29

But also, look at Carville. He's been living in a mansion since Reagan.

Kristen: 56:33

Correct.

Harrison: 56:35

That isn't I'm sorry, that isn't experience that I value. No. Then he's talking down to a person like David Hogg whose experience is shooter drills, shot at in their school, not being able to afford college, having the people around him, their lives decimated by college debt, watching his friends and family members' lives being ruined by medical debt. I would argue that David Hogg has more valuable experience at 25 than that person has a baby in this moment.

Kristen: 57:07

I I think that in this moment, you're correct. I think that James Carville was completely outdated and antiquated in his response, and I think it showed an arrogance of someone at the top of a party that is exactly the problem that we're all talking about. I agree with that wholeheartedly. I'm just not ready or in a place to lump all people 60 together or all people 20 together. I'm not I don't I don't wanna do that any more than I wanna say all gays do this and all lesbians do this and all trans people do this.

Kristen: 57:37

Like, to me, it's just a broad stroke. Mhmm. And so setting an age restriction for something like voting feels like a very broad stroke. Mhmm. And I I I would love to see more intergenerational partnerships and more intergenerational working.

Kristen: 57:53

Like, James Cargill had a great opportunity to go, interesting thought, kid. Why don't we go talk about it?

Harrison: 58:00

Right. And I guess the reason I will stand here and say people over this age shouldn't be able to vote is because that is the energy that young people get from the older generation. It's the you don't you just don't understand. You and, like, I'm willing to be argumentative and push back in a way that is going to upset older people because

Kristen: 58:25

But you're not you're not ready to be in a position to say, maybe I don't understand.

Harrison: 58:29

What do you mean?

Kristen: 58:31

Well, you said you're ready to be argumentative and push back, but are you also ready to learn? Because there will be I learn every day. But there will be situations where someone says you don't understand, and you really don't understand. And you don't understand because you

Harrison: 58:45

But the the thing is is I get told constantly, I don't understand because I'm only this age, where people that are 70 James Carville never gets told he doesn't understand.

Kristen: 58:59

He's got a wife. Right. Who's a Republican? Who's a Republican?

Harrison: 59:04

Oh, man.

Kristen: 59:06

Mean I also think that part of this is very particular to our community. We live around a lot of people who are older than us. Mhmm. And we lack a lot of diversity in discussion here because of the prohibitive cost of living, and there aren't a lot of young people here. And so I think that your specific experience has only come from one way.

Kristen: 59:29

Yeah. And you haven't had enough time with a 21 year old telling you how shit is when you get to go, oh, actually, you just don't understand. And once you get a little more of that

Harrison: 59:39

Most a a substantial portion of my close friends are in their early twenties.

Kristen: 59:44

And do you and do you do you get to say

Harrison: 59:46

I learn from them every day more so than I learn from older people.

Kristen: 59:50

But do they learn from you?

Harrison: 59:51

Yeah. Of course.

Kristen: 59:52

And you're the older person?

Harrison: 59:53

Yeah, but I learn from them more than they learn from me. I guarantee it.

Kristen: 59:57

Possibly, but it still happens, and I think that's the point. Because what you're coming across is like there's nothing to learn from these people, and all they're doing is telling

Harrison: 01:00:05

you this. I'm saying there's nothing to learn. I'm saying they're beating our heads. They're beating us over the head with everything that they want. They think their opinions are the most valid, and they beat us over the head with it every day.

Harrison: 01:00:15

I'm not saying I'm not willing to learn. I'm saying they're not willing. They're not you're saying, like, I'm not willing to learn. They're not willing to not let me learn. Mhmm.

Harrison: 01:00:25

You know what I mean?

Kristen: 01:00:26

Like, it I'm sure this episode will help. Yeah.

Harrison: 01:00:29

No. I love when people come for me.

Kristen: 01:00:34

I like the But if

Harrison: 01:00:36

you are one of those older people who's just getting mad at what I'm saying, actually take some to think about it. About whether you, when you come across someone in their twenties, thirties, forties, do you actually listen and try to understand and recognize that they have a different perspective because they have different experiences than And just because you have thirty more years of experience doesn't make yours more valid because your experience of you being in your twenties is different than the people who are experiencing their twenties than now. Someone, I just watched a TikTok of someone who said that, like, I was talking about buying a house with my parents, and they said, I don't know why you're looking at these expensive $700,000 house. You should be looking at like $100,000 starter homes. They don't even know they don't exist Yes,

Kristen: 01:01:24

they don't exist anymore.

Harrison: 01:01:25

I guess what I'm saying is it's the older people that are closed off to learning. And they are constantly reinforced with the idea that they don't have to.

Kristen: 01:01:36

I think, again, that that is true, but a general statement. Sure. And I just am holding hope for those glimmers of understanding enlightened elders Mhmm. Who don't believe that they have to hang on to everything they have, and they are willing to mentor. I think that if we made mentorship cool again and not creepy,

Harrison: 01:02:01

that Right.

Kristen: 01:02:03

You know what I mean? That there are people out there that you can learn and have an exchange. I just I just fully will die on the hill of a diverse group of brains working together with varying levels of experience and life experience is gonna come up with the best result for everybody.

Harrison: 01:02:17

But I and I agree, and I know I push back in kind of an extreme angle with these ideas.

Kristen: 01:02:25

You're an ageist, you mean? No, I'm kidding. Sure.

Harrison: 01:02:28

But like, I feel like I agree with you. And I feel like the people with the most to learn about being diverse is older people. The people who have the most to learn about bringing people in, and it's apparent. Look at the Democratic Party.

Kristen: 01:02:43

Older white people.

Harrison: 01:02:43

What we're talking about. Yes, fully older white people. It's like, look at what we're specifically talking about. It's the Democratic Party where it is exceedingly people in their sixties, seventies, and eighties telling everyone else they don't know what they're talking about, telling everyone else their opinion is invalid, and that they should just get in line and get on board with what they decide they're doing.

Kristen: 01:03:06

And telling everyone that their opinion doesn't matter, and also telling everyone that there is no room for a new way of doing it. And I think that is the part you're correct. I wholeheartedly believe that the DNC is too old, it's too white, it's too out of touch, and it's too ingrained in, frankly, sucking its own dick. Mhmm. Right?

Kristen: 01:03:26

Like, that's what it is. And I would just like to see a little bit more of a disruption that is intergenerational.

Harrison: 01:03:33

Right.

Kristen: 01:03:33

I think because I I just don't believe that there aren't progressive people who are I mean and this is probably because I'm getting older and being like, you know, I work really hard to try to stay aware struggle of it all. And fortunately, I'm broke, so I get some of the struggle. Right? Like, I'm not a wealthy person in this community, so I get to relate to that component. I'm not, you know, the poorest by any means, but I'm I'm you know, we're not buying houses here.

Kristen: 01:04:02

You know what I mean? So I I agree with you. I just wanna see a little I just wanna see a little bit more of overall diversity all around. Mhmm. Color class, class race, ethnicity, age Yeah.

Kristen: 01:04:19

Religious belief.

Harrison: 01:04:20

Yeah. And I mean, I guess before anyone decides to shit on me for my experiences and my opinions of the older population when it comes to politics is like, there's no need. Like, I don't have to be inclusive to your exclusivity. I don't have to include you when you're the people who are being exclusive.

Kristen: 01:04:40

Correct.

Harrison: 01:04:42

It'd be better. It'd better. And I know a lot of people are going to say that my opinions are based on me. I think people in their 30s and 40s should be running politics because I'm in my late 30s. But it truly isn't that.

Harrison: 01:04:56

I truly think when I'm 50, 60, I think I will still agree that the majority of the people with the largest say should be people in their 30s and 40s because that era of your life is when you have the most to lose, the most to gain, the experience of what it's like coming in, and using that experience to craft what your life is

Kristen: 01:05:19

going to be like moving forward. I'm happy to have some folks that age. Yeah. I just don't want them all to be one of anything. I think they should majority be.

Kristen: 01:05:28

I don't think well, but who's gonna make the babies then? I mean, we have we have to keep our humanity alive. And I'm

Harrison: 01:05:36

just having babies until we can make money and survive and afford eggs and the whole thing. But when it comes down to it, I just

Kristen: 01:05:44

Also, people in their thirties, no disrespect, but, like, no.

Harrison: 01:05:48

What do you mean?

Kristen: 01:05:49

Wait till you're 40 and then you'll know. Oh. We'll see.

Harrison: 01:05:52

She's one of them. Cut the camera.

Kristen: 01:05:55

That's a scene. Alright. Well, thank you for listening to Queer Times, everybody. These are Queer Times. Yeah.

Kristen: 01:06:02

I'm Kristen Becker. You can find me at at kristenbeckercomedy. This is

Harrison: 01:06:07

I'm Harrison Fish. You're find me at Harrison Fish.

Kristen: 01:06:10

And, obviously, subscribe, follow, review. Please review. Give it five stars. It's on Apple Podcasts. We're on Spotify.

Kristen: 01:06:18

We're on YouTube. We're on all the things. Tell your friends, comment, share, spread the word, and we'll see you next week. Love you. Queerly.

Kristen: 01:06:28

Bye. Queer as Ben.