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Hosted by Montana Funk, Young Lawyer Rising covers issues pertinent to young lawyers, from newly minted attorneys to lawyers 10 years into practice and beyond. From dealing with the daily grind and career management to social issues and financial, mental, and physical wellness, this show features the voices of young lawyers from across the country sharing their stories and advice to help all lawyers navigate their careers and rise to where they want to be.
Montana Funk (00:13):
This is Young Lawyer Rising, brought to you by the A BA Young Lawyers Division and produced by Maureen Media. Welcome back listeners. This is your host, Montana Funk. Today I'm joined by Judge Jessica Fehr. Judge Fehr currently carries a full caseload of civil and criminal matters, presides over the CS, opportunity and Recovery Drug Treatment Court and Family Recovery Court. She also serves in the sentence Review Division, the District Court Council, the Criminal Jury Instruction Commission, and the Civil Jury Instruction Commission. I'm so glad to be joined by her today. Good morning, judge. Fehr.
Judge Jessica Fehr (00:49):
Good morning, Montana. How are you?
Montana Funk (00:51):
Good. I'm so excited to have you on our podcast. I feel like this is a long time coming.
Judge Jessica Fehr (00:56):
Well, you've already spent too much time with me in your career. No,
Montana Funk (00:59):
Never. Never. Well, I'm so excited to have you on and have a judge on. You're our first judge that's been on this podcast, so it's been a long time and I think it's very important and I'm excited to hear a perspective from someone that's not an attorney, but someone who has been an attorney and now is Judge. So let's just start easy. Introduce yourself to our listeners.
Judge Jessica Fehr (01:17):
I'm Jessica Fehr. I'm a district court judge in Billings, Montana, which is the largest city in Montana. I am a general jurisdiction judge is how they describe me. So we cover really any felony criminal matters, any civil matters. We cover dependent and neglect. So that's where the state gets involved with the custody of children. I cover adoptions, guardianships, dissolutions of marriage, parenting plans and anything in between. We also do, yes, those that are having mental health crises, we also cover those cases. So it's a full spectrum and I'm a full-time parent of three boys. So
Montana Funk (01:58):
You're busy say the least.
Judge Jessica Fehr (02:00):
Yes,
Montana Funk (02:00):
Yes. Not a ton of free time, but yet you're
Judge Jessica Fehr (02:02):
Here. No, well, I think it's really important to help younger lawyers to understand how to be better. I had great mentors when I was starting out as a lawyer and I get to now work with law clerks where it's a young lawyer that I hire to work in my office and I enjoy that. So of course I was excited to be asked.
Montana Funk (02:23):
Well, thank you. I want you to kind of tell the listeners how you became a judge. So just briefly, I think a lot of people I know I for sure going into law school was like, I would love to be a judge one day, and I don't know if a lot of people know actually how you do that process. So if you're willing to talk a little bit about what you did before and how you decided to become a judge, I think that would be super helpful.
Judge Jessica Fehr (02:43):
Most kids, I blame my parents. I really was interested. I've always been interested in the law. The joke in our house was always I'd wanted to be a lawyer since I was two. My younger brother was involved in a medical malpractice lawsuit when he was 18 months old and for a lot of reasons that case strung on over 16 years. And so during that 16 years, my parents participated in three separate jury trials, multiple appeals to the Wyoming Supreme Court, and I was kind of sitting in the courtrooms or in the depositions or hearing tangentially through my parents what was going on. I also had a wicked addiction to law and order. I think I've seen every episode all the way back to the Lenny Briscoe days for those of you who know. And so I think I always was drawn to the law for a lot of reasons.
(03:36):
My parents also have been incredibly involved in their communities and either in small ways or big ways have always contributed. And so a part of me always felt like no matter what I did, I needed to be active in my community. So I went to law school right out of undergrad and then started with a private law firm here in Billings, a midsize defense firm. Did mostly insurance defense. I did that for two and a half years, and I think I was in a courtroom once and I was bored because that's where I wanted to be, was in a courtroom. I got an opportunity to go to the United States Attorney's Office here in Billings. And so I did that for seven and a half years. Loved every minute of it. I don't think there's anything that made me more proud, at least at that point in my career, than getting to stand in front of a jury and say, I represent the United States of America.
(04:29):
It a pretty, it still gives me goosebumps when I say it out loud. I loved the work. We did everything. I did affirmative civil cases where I acted as a plaintiff's attorney on behalf of the government. I did criminal cases. We have several Indian reservations where there's jurisdiction for violent crimes. So I did violent crime cases. I did white collar crime where there's financial issues and I loved the work. I was in trial a lot in the courtroom, a lot. I had two of my sons when I was in that office. And after having two boys and being in trial constantly with a lot of travel, I decided it was time to do something different. So I went back to the same law firm. They were gracious enough to take me back. And I was there for, gosh, I want to say about five years, became a partner and did mostly medical malpractice defense.
(05:23):
Again, I blame kind of the early formative years of being in a malpractice case with my brother. And I also loved medical malpractice because you got to work with amazing experts. The plaintiff's lawyers were great, the clients were great. It was a wonderful experience. And then we had a judge retire in Yellowstone County and in Montana, judges are elected, and so we either have the opportunity to run during a general election for a position, or if a position comes open midway through a term, then we can be appointed by the governor. And so I thought, what a cool job to actually be in the courtroom, but be in a different role. I was 38 when I applied to be a judge, and I thought, yeah, this would be a good transition. So I applied, made it through the committee interviews. Three of us went to the governor's office and interviewed. And in hindsight, during the interview, I tried to be what I thought he would want to see
(06:30):
And it didn't go well. And another judge was hired who's wonderful, and I work with him all the time. And I went home and I was demoralized and all things. I gave myself 24 hours to cry and eat carbs. And then we got to just keep moving. So I went back to my job, went back to my partners, they were relieved I wasn't leaving, and my clients were happy. Two months later, another judge was leaving her position and I thought, well, what do I have to lose the packet's already done? So I turned it in and got another interview with the governor, and this time I was me and I presented, put everything on the table whether it was politically appropriate or not, and I got the position. So I was appointed. I had 30 days to close up my practice, which was a nightmare. And I was sworn in 2018, and now I stand for election every six years.
Montana Funk (07:23):
That's so cool. That's a lot to get there. You've seen. I feel you've seen a lot.
Judge Jessica Fehr (07:28):
It is, it is. And people ask me, here's the deal, judges, state court judges, we're not in it for the money. We take pay cuts to leave private practice to come here. But I will tell you that I feel like I'm actually making a difference in my community. There are really bad days, but there are really good days. Well, I do it forever, I don't know, but right now it feeds my soul and it's challenging and every day is academically different. So for now, it's a great job. I'm very lucky.
Montana Funk (07:59):
I think one of the big things too, obviously I practice in front of you, but as a judge, I feel like you have the opportunity to be a mentor for a lot of people who are coming in, whether it's civilly or criminally, but being in front of a judge for a first time, you have the ability and power to help them however you see fit. So I'm curious, when you took on that role initially, what did you feel the transition was between, okay, I'm an attorney and now I'm actually the person that is going to be mentoring attorneys. As a judge,
Judge Jessica Fehr (08:30):
The hardest part is that you go from, no matter what you're doing in the law, whether you are a probate attorney, a criminal defense attorney, whatever you're doing, you are an advocate for your client. So everything that you do has that spin. You are always advocating on behalf of your client. As a judge, I'm not advocating for anyone. In fact, I'm not allowed to. I'm just the referee, the umpire. And so that was a huge transition for me was getting used to not advocating and instead taking the information in and then making decisions for the mentorship piece. I was really lucky that I can't say that there was a single judge that I practiced in front of state court or federal court that didn't say to me at the end of a contested evidentiary hearing or at the end of a trial, come see me.
(09:21):
And I would go in and I would sit in their offices and they would tell me, here's three things. You did great. Really well done. The jury really responded well to it. Here's three things I want you to work on for the next time. And sometimes that feedback was really hard. I will be totally honest. Sometimes it felt very personal or critical, but if you can go in and have those conversations with the judges you practice in front of and take it to heart, I think all we'll do is improve your practice. So I think mentorship is really important.
Montana Funk (09:53):
I want to talk a little bit about how as a judge you feel like you can mentor young attorneys and what young attorneys can do to kind of get that mentorship. So let's take a quick break and then we'll jump into that conversation. So if you're willing to explain or if you can explain when you meet, let's say a new attorney, whether it's an associate or a young criminal attorney, what is something you are looking for as a judge that will make that individual stand out to you? So
Judge Jessica Fehr (10:26):
The first thing is come meet me. I can't tell you how many times I walk out on the bench and I have notices of appearance from counsel and I know who those attorneys are, and I walk out on the bench and I have no idea who the humans are that are sitting at council table. Usually they, in most cases it's babies, right? They're young attorneys who I joke and that I have more facial hair than most of them because they're like 25. If you're going to appear in front of a judge, whether you're with the government agency or you're in a firm, make a point of going to their office, especially in smaller jurisdictions like us, make a point of going to their office the week before, call their judicial assistant, their secretary, their assistant. Just say, is there a time when I could pop in and introduce myself? That's the first thing because I get so used to the attorneys that practice in front of me when I see new people. It's like, who are you? Who's your grownup? Who's in charge? And I think it's, it's important one because it shows that you understand that and it shows a little bit of respect to the judge.
(11:28):
The other thing is communication is so key, and I learned this from one of the federal judges I practiced in front of. There is nothing more frustrating as a judge than being surprised. You've prepared, you've stayed up late that night before going through the file, you think you know what the issues are, you think you know what the testimony is going to be. And then you walk onto the bench and they say, well, we have one issue, judge. And you find out that there's something that happened five days ago that they're just now bringing to your attention, and it throws off the entire plan for what that day was going to be like in litigation. So the judge I practiced in front of used to have a notice practice, and that was if something wonky happens, something crazy, something out of the ordinary, just file a notice.
(12:14):
And then the judge was never caught flatfooted. And so again, I think it's one of those things where remember that judges only know what you tell them. It's not like when we're practicing and I had a room full of medical records and for experts helping to educate me. I only know the case based on what has been filed in the public record and what you have told me as counsel. So I don't know all the ins and outs. I don't know about the horrible questions asked at the deposition that you're going to try to keep out. I don't know that your client is struggling with cancer treatments right now and won't be able to sit through a six day trial. I don't know those things you have to tell me. And I think that's part of it, is understanding that if you communicate respectfully and well with the judges chambers, life-changing in the relationship building, and honestly Montana, that's something you've always done very well. Oh, thank you. Whether that's popping in and communicating with my judicial assistant, whether that's saying, could we please have a conference with counsel? That's an important step so that the judge is never caught unaware.
Montana Funk (13:22):
Do you think there's anything that can be said to attorneys who maybe are listening right now and are saying, I could never do that. I'm so shy. That terrifies me. The idea of going into judges chambers and introducing myself makes me nauseous. What would you say to those people who are just the thought of that makes them extremely anxious?
Judge Jessica Fehr (13:40):
There? A couple things. One, you have chosen a profession that does require you to speak in public. So this is a little tiny itsy busy thing you can do to start working on that. The other thing is, I would hope whether you're with an office of public defender, you're with a private law firm, you're with a county attorney's office or a district attorney's office, that there is someone who is mentoring you, someone who is assisting you as you transition into that position, I would hope that that person honestly is going to be the one to say, let's go meet judge Fehr.
(14:14):
So my hope would be that. And then the third thing is if you don't feel like you're going to throw up every time you go in the courtroom, I don't think you should be doing the job. The very last jury trial I did before I became a judge, I was seven months pregnant with my third son. It went twice as long as it was supposed to go. And every day it was like, if you don't feel like you're going to throw up on your shoes, it's time for a different job. This is a job of, especially as a trial attorney, anxiety, a little bit of panic, little bit of stress, a lot of stress, a little bit of stress, yeah, a little bit of stress. So I do think that there's a certain amount of, you're going to have all kinds of emotions. You're going to have good days and bad days, and part of being a lawyer and being successful is figuring out how to manage all of those emotions in an appropriate way
Montana Funk (14:58):
When someone's actually in the courtroom practicing in front of you. I guess I have kind of two part question. The first is, what do you notice the differences between a civil attorney and a criminal attorney are practicing in front of you? Do you notice any differences?
Judge Jessica Fehr (15:13):
I do. I think the biggest difference for me is that the civil attorneys are usually not in court as often unless they've been maybe pulled from a county attorney's office or they've been pulled from federal practice and so they're not as comfortable in the courtroom, they're not going to have as much experience. Sometimes there's some forest for the tree issues. I don't need for you to go through 700 pages of the tree to disease that this expert has written. That's not necessary for me at an evidentiary hearing. So I think that's part of it is civil attorneys just aren't in trial as much, unfortunately. And so every trial is a big deal and sometimes I feel like they get a little lost in what's really important. And part of that is the fear in front of a jury. A jury is they're looking especially anymore with all of the TV shows that are on, they're looking for a program that entertains them.
(16:16):
They want to be entertained. And so that's part of it is there has to be a little bit of showmanship in presentation. Criminal attorneys get a lot more experience, they get a lot more attorneys. And then I think it's important to make sure that for criminal attorneys in particular, that they don't get sloppy because when you are in court all the time, it's really easy to just think, oh, this is just a felony DUI, not a big deal. I've done this a hundred times. We still have to take the time, review the file, interview the witnesses, be prepared, and that's what I see sometimes is call a witness. Had it happened in a trial recently where the witness actually said, no one prepared me. It was asked the question, were you prepared by counsel? No, nobody prepared me, nobody met with me. Nobody returned my phone calls. I have no idea what's going on. This whole process has been a joke. And I mean you could hear the air get sucked out of the room in that moment. And I thought, no matter what the trial is about, no matter who the witness is, if you're calling them to the stand and they're putting their right hand up and swearing under oath to tell the truth, give them the courtesy of a 20 minute face-to-face meeting with the attorney. So I think it's some of the grace and the courtesy maybe
(17:34):
That has been lost with C and has been lost with zoom and has been lost with social media and texting. Some of that I would like to see brought back with younger attorneys.
Montana Funk (17:45):
Is there anything outside of actually how they practice in prep presentation wise that you think is a do or a don't as an attorney? So that could be how they dress or how they present themselves or any of the sort?
Judge Jessica Fehr (18:00):
I think it's important. Again, I probably am dating myself, but I practiced in front of a female judge, and I remember once I showed up and I was just covering a quick arraignment. This was in federal court, it was in the magistrate's courtroom, smaller, more intimate courtroom I had on. I remember it was a pink sweater with a white button up underneath it, and it was, I thought, an adorable outfit. And I ran over, did this arraignment very quickly, and when I got done, the judge's assistant asked me to come into chambers. I said, sure, nervously of course wring my hands. I went in and she very respectfully but directly said to me, you are asking me to limit the civil liberties of that defendant when you show up as an attorney, and the least you could do is wear a jacket. And I was able to keep my emotions together, partly because she is an amazing woman and I respected her so much.
(19:02):
And so there was that part of that kind of Roman Catholic guilt where I thought, oh my God, I disappointed her. And from that day forward, and I will tell you it's still true today in my judge's closet, next to my robe is a black jacket, a black suit coat. Because from that day forward, I always kept a suit code in my office so that no matter what was going on, no matter what I was wearing, I could look professional and meet that standard. Now things are changing, things are evolving, but I do think if you think of it in terms of it's not, am I wearing an expensive suit, right? It's not. Am I wearing whatever they say is the trend, my butter yellow jacket, right? That's not what matters. Some of my best suits I've bought thrifting, some of my favorite suits I've bought thrifting.
(19:51):
The point is, think about what you're doing, right? If you are going in and you're representing somebody in a dissolution of marriage, this is life-changing for them. This is ending a chapter, this is beginning a new chapter. What do we convey as attorneys physically out of respect for the court and our client? The same thing in a criminal case, whether you're a prosecutor or a defense attorney, you want to convey with your physical appearance, this matters. This is important, and you understand the gravity of what you're doing here today. So really, I don't care what you're wearing, I'm no fashionista, but go into the courtroom with that sense of gravity. And so for me, how do you walk in, right? Do you walk in like a yard sale? We all have yard sale moments, but for the most part, especially if you're walking into maybe jury selection, right?
(20:42):
Where there's a hundred citizens staring at you, they're watching every single thing that you do. They're looking at the organization on your council table, they're looking at how you talk to staff, they're looking at how you talk to your client, they're looking at your mannerisms, your body language. And I know that can be stressful for attorneys, but you just have to be aware that, again, I think that they make those judgment calls unfortunately in the first five, 10 minutes that they're watching you. So be mindful of that. Speak kindly to staff, speak kindly to the court staff. Be organized. Something happens that you don't expect. It's okay to laugh. It doesn't always have to be well, somebody's fault or the other thing is, and I think this is important and I have to do this all the time, you are ultimately responsible for what happens in your cases. We all have staff, we all have snafus that happened with our staff. But at the end of the day, if it happens in my office, whether I knew about it, touched it, had anything to do with it, I am responsible. And I learned that lesson as a young attorney.
(21:49):
You just say, I understand it won't happen again. And then maybe there's some constructive discussions that need to happen at the office. Some process changes, but don't argue with the judge when something goes wrong, you can give an explanation, but at the end of the day, thank you, it won't happen again. And so part of that is just the overall presentation and being the person who's kind of in command and understands the gravity of what they're doing.
Montana Funk (22:18):
And it kind of sounds like overall everything you're saying just goes to respect, just being respectful of your time as the judge, the court's time, your client's time, just in general, presenting yourself in a respectful way is kind of everything you're saying, at least to me, what that goes to.
Judge Jessica Fehr (22:35):
Absolutely. And here's the thing, life happens, right? Like I said, I have three kids, I'm a single mom. There are things that happen that I could tell you stories for a whole other hour about the crazy things that my children have done and have put me through. There are going to be times when things happen, especially as a lawyer, just communicate. Somebody six are raising up their nose and has to end up in the emergency room through story.
Montana Funk (23:01):
I going to say, experience or
Judge Jessica Fehr (23:02):
Not. What heck yep. Just call the judges chambers, right? Here's what's going on. I really apologize. Did not expect this to happen this morning. My colleague is on their way over, or I'm filing an emergency motion to continue, or if the judge's calendar allows, I'll be there in 20 minutes. Just communicate and judges will work with you and appreciate you. They may give you a hard time, but they will appreciate the communication and so respect for the judge, respect for the client, respect for yourself, and the position you hold as an attorney.
Montana Funk (23:36):
I want to talk a little bit more of the dos and don'ts of being a young attorney. So let's do that after the break When it comes to writing motions, because that's kind of on the opposite side of actually presenting in court. Are there any do's and don'ts you can think of in terms of actually writing that you would say to young lawyers? Because a lot of civil attorneys are going to just be writing a lot of summary judgment motions or whatever it may be. So what do you see that immediately gives you pause as a judge versus briefs that come through that automatically? Okay, this is professionally written and well done.
Judge Jessica Fehr (24:13):
One is make sure you know what your local court rules are when you're a new lawyer. Most jurisdictions have not only the broad rules of civil procedure, rules of evidence, rules of criminal procedure, they also are going to have local rules that's going to tell you expectations about filings, copies, courtesy copies, how does it work? Page limits. A lot of jurisdictions now are developing artificial intelligence rules, so it's very important you look at your local rules, make sure you understand them. If you have questions about it, talk to a senior lawyer. The other important thing is proofreading. Again, we all have typos, but when I get a motion and a brief that clearly, no one even read it one time after they had finished typing. The reality is when I started as an attorney, I remember walking into the law firm, there was a dictaphone on my desk and I was like, what is this thing? They kept trying to get me to use it, and I said, it's quicker if I type it myself.
(25:14):
And so I think a lot of us, and then I think your generation, we type it ourselves, don't have assistants that are typing things for us. So when you're done, I know sometimes I get done with an order and I think I'm sending it right now. I'm done. I don't ever want to see this again. Put it aside, read it again, have someone else read it just for proofreading. That's really important. Double check your sites, double check, double check, double check. Don't cite a case that is no longer good law. It's going to affect your credibility with me. The other big thing with AI is it's important one to know your local rules and know if you're required to cite that you used ai. The other thing is AI will create sites for you, and so you have to understand that if AI is assisting you in drafting any of your briefs, you need to then go and double check all of the sites that perhaps are referenced or suggested by the program you're using. Because chat, GPT wants to be real helpful. If there's not a case that on point, they might make one for you. The biggest thing is credibility with a judge. You walk in, you have it, you lose it. You'll spend the rest of your career trying to get it back.
Montana Funk (26:25):
Can you tell when an attorney uses ai just out of curiosity?
Judge Jessica Fehr (26:28):
Yes. Yeah, yeah.
Montana Funk (26:29):
Okay.
Judge Jessica Fehr (26:30):
Partly because it reads right out of a textbook. Attorneys can't help themselves. We think we're very funny, we can't
Montana Funk (26:38):
Help. No, we know we're funny.
Judge Jessica Fehr (26:39):
Please. Is that what it's humans? Hysterical. Humans. Humans. So we can't help ourselves to throw in what we think are very witty references, popular culture references, drop a footnote that references somebody's favorite movie. We can't help ourselves from doing that. I enjoy that. It brings a little levity to what I have to do when I have to read 500 pages. But in AI generated briefs or responses, clearly they're being generated that way because there's none of that. There's no colloquialisms. There's zero humor, zero kind of reference to anything within the community. So I shouldn't say I can always tell, but I usually have a pretty good idea.
Montana Funk (27:22):
This is kind of on the opposite side. Going back to trials and I guess hearings, have you ever heard feedback from a juror or maybe people who aren't the direct attorneys about what makes attorneys stand out to them?
Judge Jessica Fehr (27:38):
The biggest thing, and you and I have had this conversation before, I think you win or lose a case in voir dire, which is when you select your jury. I think that at that point you either have the credibility of the jury, either believes you, believes what you're going to say, or it's an uphill battle. Now you can win cases and maybe you haven't won over your jury during selection, but I do think it's a really, really important part that a lot of attorneys are not great at. I would encourage young attorneys to every opportunity you have to either sit through one, sit, maybe second chair, participate in that process, or in smaller cases actually do the selection. The only way to learn is by actually doing it. It's when the jury doesn't feel like you're wasting their time. So getting up and going back through the same questions that the prosecutor just asked or that the plaintiff's attorney just asked. So you told plaintiff's counsel this, correct? Yes. And then you said this correct. I've had whole trials where that is 75% of the cross-examination and it's mind numbing. That's when you'll hear me start digging around in the cough drops that I keep on top of my desk because I have to get myself some sugar so I can stay awake, stay awake,
Montana Funk (28:51):
Right?
Judge Jessica Fehr (28:52):
Yeah. It's just one of those things where you can't do that. What I see from the bench, and again, I'm in an interesting position, I can see what's going on and my job is to observe and keep the peace, right? So you'll see when a defense attorney, plaintiff, or excuse me, civil or criminal, when they have gotten the jury's attention, it's because they get up on cross, they ask the questions they need to ask, and they sit down and the questions have a purpose, and those questions are tied to the theme of their case, and you will see the jury physically lean forward. You will see the jury physically uncross their arms or uncross their legs. You will watch their body mannerisms change when the attorney stands up because they're ready for whatever they're about to get thrown. When there's an attorney that perhaps has not been as well received, you'll see the opposite. You'll see the arms get crossed, you'll see them sit back in their chairs, notebooks go in their laps. They start fumbling for their water. So the body language is really important, which again is a reason why I think nobody should try a case, which is one lawyer, because having that second lawyer, having a paralegal and investigator sitting there being able to observe all of these things. So key,
Montana Funk (30:10):
And I was actually going to say, I've recently heard of a couple of cases that have gone with one attorney, and that's always interesting to me being on the side of council table because having a person, even just to have someone there for the support, having a support system is always something that I'm going to want. So it's interesting to hear from a judge's perspective that you can also notice it in the jurors too, that even they can see body language wise, how us as attorneys are acting. So I think that that's just something that's important that we don't really ever think about as attorneys. So that's a helpful perspective and I think it's important to talk just briefly about, you'd mentioned earlier that you can hire law clerks, and we haven't really touched on that, so I want to just briefly talk about what those are and how a law clerk may differ from an attorney who's actually practicing in front of you.
Judge Jessica Fehr (31:01):
So I hire law clerks. Usually they're here for a one year term, so it's usually a newer graduate from law school who maybe is taking the bar the summer after law school. Generally the term is September to September. My goal with a law clerk is to help them to move into a position where they're going to be successful. So I have law clerks that come in and say, oh, I hate criminal law. I don't want to do any criminal law. Well, tough. I'm a general jurisdiction judge, so we're doing criminal, and they have all without fail said to me, I'm so glad you made me do criminal work because I also believe it's important for law clerks to watch as much court as possible. So while I rely on the law clerk to do research, for me to write memos, to do drafts of orders, I also really encourage them to be in the courtroom as much as possible because I think that's the best way for lawyers to learn what works, what doesn't work, what do I like? What style do I like, what don't I like? I think they get a better idea of maybe you get to see behind the chamber store, so you get to see what is really going to annoy a judge. What makes a judge's job easier,
(32:17):
And I can always tell when someone has been a law clerk based on their filings. Oh
Montana Funk (32:21):
Really?
Judge Jessica Fehr (32:22):
Oh, with those folks, I always get a courtesy copy. We always get a word version of every proposed order. The citations are always the correct format and have clearly been double-check. They know the things that are going to drive a judge crazy. I also think it's important that when you're a law clerk, not only are you working with me, but you're working with the other seven judges in our jurisdiction, you have exposure to all of them. So when you go to a firm or you end up in a county attorney or a public defender's office, you're a known entity. I think of, we have a mutual friend who practices in front of me right now who was a law clerk who is now in my pod for the criminal defense attorneys, and he was a known entity when he came back to work as an attorney.
(33:10):
That gives him a little bit of credibility. So he starts with a plus in his column, and so I think it's being a law clerk, I'll tell you, the pay is terrible. It is slave wages. I hate it. I wish law clerks should make double what they make right now, but it hasn't been in the budget, at least in the state of Montana, but it really is an opportunity. I have a wonderful young lady who's going to be joining me here in a couple weeks from the University of Vermont, very excited. She has a super varied background, and I always learn from my law clerks, they always have life experiences and perspectives that I benefit from. I don't want to be surrounded by people that just tell me, yes, I want people that push me. I want people that argue with me respectfully, but I don't want people to say, yes, of course, you're right, judge and Stepford Witt. I want people that say, I think there actually might be a little bit to this argument, or I saw this case, it concerns me. I love that back and forth in that dialogue. So I love having smart, capable, funny people. There is a list of movies that I do ask my law clerks if they've seen, and then if they haven't, I strongly encourage them to watch them, which most of my law clerks they're young, have never heard of, and so
Montana Funk (34:26):
I would love to know them after
Judge Jessica Fehr (34:28):
This recording. Most of them are nineties dem comedies, but wonderful that are necessary to understand my sense of humor. I think
Montana Funk (34:39):
This sounds going to sound terrible, but have an individuality, have a personality that you can bring different perspectives to the table. It kind sounds like is something that's helpful as a clerk.
Judge Jessica Fehr (34:49):
I think that the best lawyers that I see and the people I enjoy the most are the ones who are themselves. Never try to hide your individuality. You be who you are and that will shine through and you will have an exceptional career. It's the folks that try to be, I want to mimic this person's style, or like I did in my first interview to become a judge, I presented and answered questions like I thought they wanted and it didn't work. If we can figure out how to be individuals presented, individuals, be authentic. The jury sees that, the judges see that, your colleagues see that. Don't ever be inauthentic. It's a disservice to yourself. This profession is so broad and so open, and there's so many different things you can do with it. Don't think that you have to put yourself in a box and wear the black suit and the red tie, and that's just not who this profession is anymore. If you are authentic and good at your job and prepared, you're going to be successful no matter what area of the law you're in.
Montana Funk (35:55):
I have one last question for you, and I think you kind of just answered it, so feel free to say exactly what you just said if that's what it was. But what is one thing that you can think of that makes an attorney memorable to you or that will keep the attorney that you say, that's who I love when they're practicing in my courtroom versus the others.
Judge Jessica Fehr (36:15):
That's really hard, Montana, because I value a sense of humor so much. I mean, you know that from practicing in front of me, I'm probably more sarcastic and dry than I should be, but I appreciate a good sense of humor. I appreciate a well-timed comment, a well-timed moment. But really at the end of the day, the lawyers that I am pleased to see on my docket are the lawyers who are prepared, whether that's civil or criminal. When you come in and you know your case and you are organized and you are ready and your witnesses are ready and your staff are ready, I love seeing those lawyers because then, and here's the thing, we all know stuff happens in trial, stuff happens in court, stuff happens when you work in the human services industry, which is what we work in. But if you're prepared and 90% of what's going to happen, you then have the grace and the talent and the skills to roll into the next 10% when things happen that you don't expect. So for me, I think the number one thing is be prepared. And when you're new, that's going to mean spending more time than you want, more time than your partners think you should. Understanding the case, the law, doing notes, outlines, however it is you learn, but it will get easier. It's that first five years, that's a steep learning curve. And then once you get there, you start to have more confidence and then you're unstoppable.
Montana Funk (37:39):
Well, that's all I have for you. So thank you so much for joining our podcast today. This has been awesome and I appreciate it.
Judge Jessica Fehr (37:46):
Yes, thank you, Montana. You're wonderful and I'm so glad you're doing this for Young Lawyers.
Montana Funk (37:51):
Well listeners, that is our show, and thank you as always for tuning in. If you like what you heard today, please recommend us to a friend. We can be found anywhere that you listen to podcasts, listeners, after three years. This is my final episode as the host of the A Young Lawyers Divisions podcast. I want to express my gratitude to each of you who have listened and joined me on this journey. I wish you all the best in your future and in your developing careers. I am Montana Funk, and you've been listening to Young Lawyer Rising, brought to you by the A, a Young Lawyers Division and produced by Moreane Media.