Beyond Your Default

In this episode of Beyond Your Default, George and I are digging into something that is woefully misunderstood: bravery. We’ve all been fed this narrative that bravery has to be some dramatic, action-hero moment—full of fearless, toxic positivity or like rushing into a burning building or staring down a villain in some epic showdown. But here’s the thing: that’s complete nonsense.

We’re breaking down what bravery actually feels like in the real world. Sometimes it feels like you’re about to puke. Sometimes it’s quiet, personal, and shows up in ways that nobody else will ever see. Bravery isn’t about waiting for some magical feeling of confidence to wash over you—it’s about stepping into the scary stuff anyway, even when your brain is screaming:

“Abort mission!”

🌶️ Spice up your inbox: Subscribe to the Beyond Your Default newsletter

So if you’re sitting there wondering how the heck you can be braver in your everyday life without having to slay a dragon or leap off a building, this one’s for you. George and I are diving into the ways we’ve both shown bravery in our own lives (it wasn’t glamorous), and how you can start recognizing those small but powerful brave moments in your life, too.

Bravery isn’t some magical state of being where everything suddenly feels great and you know exactly what you’re doing. (If that happens, let me know, because I’ve been missing out.) It’s messy, it’s uncomfortable, and it often looks like taking tiny, awkward steps forward when you’d rather curl up in a ball. But if you’re still moving forward—no matter how scared, unsure, or uncomfortable you feel—you’re already doing it. You’re already brave. And that’s the whole damn point.

So stop waiting for bravery to feel epic. Start giving yourself credit for the brave things you’ve already done, and get out there and do the next scary thing. Because trust me, you’re braver than you think.

🌱 Related Episodes:
Bravery Topics We Cover

everyday bravery, quiet courage, overcoming fear, bravery vs. fearlessness, cultural expectations of bravery, taking action despite fear, personal growth through discomfort, mindset shifts for bravery.

Highlights from Our Conversation
  • Bravery Isn’t Fearlessness (Because Let’s Be Honest, Fear Never Fully Goes Away): Let’s cut to the chase—if you’re waiting to magically feel fearless before taking action, you’re going to be waiting forever. Bravery isn’t the absence of fear; it’s showing up and doing the thing with fear tagging along for the ride. We break down how fear and bravery are basically two sides of the same coin, and why being scared doesn’t disqualify you from being brave. In fact, it’s kind of the whole point.

  • The Everyday Acts of Bravery You’re Probably Overlooking: Listen, yes, jumping out of a plane might be brave, but so is setting a boundary with someone when you’ve spent your whole life being a people-pleaser. We dive into the tiny, everyday acts of bravery that don’t get any applause but make all the difference—things like saying “no,” asking for help, or simply getting through the day when life feels heavy. Trust me, these are the real MVP moments of bravery.

  • Why Hollywood’s Definition of Bravery Is Screwing You Over: Society—and yes, Hollywood too—has trained us to think bravery is all about big, visible acts of heroism. But in reality, most bravery happens when no one’s watching. We talk about how these warped ideas about bravery have messed with our heads, and why comparing yourself to some superhero storyline is a surefire way to feel like you’re not measuring up. Spoiler: You don’t need a cape or a grand gesture to be brave.

  • George and I Share Our Not-So-Glorious Brave Moments: We’re getting real about the times we’ve had to be brave—and spoiler, it didn’t look like the movies. From business decisions that scared the hell out of us to moments of personal growth where we had no idea what was coming next, we talk about the times we didn’t feel brave at all in the moment but looking back? Yeah, we were. If you’re waiting for some epic brave feeling to hit before you make your move, we’re here to tell you: that’s not how it works.

  • Stop Waiting for the Feeling—Just Do the Damn Thing: If there’s one thing we want you to take away from this episode, it’s that bravery isn’t some feeling that sweeps you off your feet. It’s about moving forward when you’re scared out of your mind. We break down why waiting until you feel ready is a trap and how the most important thing you can do is just start. Whether that’s having the tough conversation or finally taking the leap on something you’ve been putting off—just go.

  • How to Start Acting Bravely (Even When You Don’t Feel Like It): Want to know how to be braver in your everyday life without feeling like you’re gearing up for battle? We’ve got you covered. George and I walk you through practical, real-life strategies for stepping into those moments of discomfort and taking action, even when you’re not feeling particularly bold. It’s not about waiting for bravery to arrive—it’s about building it as you go.

  • Recognizing the Brave Moments You’re Already Crushing: Here’s a hot take: You’re already braver than you think. Seriously, when was the last time you gave yourself credit for all the times you’ve been brave, even when it didn’t feel like it? We talk about how to look back at your own life and recognize those small moments of courage that probably flew under the radar—and why you should start celebrating those wins, like, yesterday.
Quotes About the Importance of Love

“Bravery is the capacity to perform properly even when scared half to death.” - Omar N. Bradley

“It is not the strength of the body that counts, but the strength of the spirit.” - J.R.R. Tolkien

“Bravery is being the only one who knows you’re afraid.” - Franklin P. Jones

“Success is not final, failure is not fatal: It is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

“The bravest thing I ever did was continuing my life when I wanted to die.” - Juliette Lewis

“You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, ‘I lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along.’” - Eleanor Roosevelt

“Bravery is the audacity to be unhindered by failures, and to walk with freedom, strength, and hope, in the face of the things unknown.” - Morgan Harper Nichols

“It takes courage to grow up and become who you really are.” - E.E. Cummings

“Courage doesn’t always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, ‘I will try again tomorrow.’” - Mary Anne Radmacher

“True courage is in facing danger when you are afraid.” - L. Frank Baum

“Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear—not absence of fear.” - Mark Twain

“Fortune favors the brave.” - Virgil

“Have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become.” - Steve Jobs

“Bravery is the engine of change.” - Aisha Tyler

“The bravest sight in the world is to see a great man struggling against adversity.” - Seneca

“Courage is grace under pressure.” - Ernest Hemingway

“Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.” - T.S. Eliot

“You cannot swim for new horizons until you have courage to lose sight of the shore.” - William Faulkner

“He who is not courageous enough to take risks will accomplish nothing in life.” - Muhammad Ali

“It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare.” - Mark Twain

“Scared is what you’re feeling. Brave is what you’re doing.” - Emma Donoghue

“Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway.” - John Wayne

“Bravery is not the absence of fear but the action in the face of fear.” - Unknown

“Real courage is when you know you’re licked before you begin, but you begin anyway and see it through no matter what.” - Harper Lee

Related BYD Episodes

Creators & Guests

Host
George B. Thomas
A catalyst for growth!
Host
Liz Moorehead
Content therapist and speaker.

What is Beyond Your Default?

What Is Beyond Your Default? "Everyone keeps telling me I should be happy, but I'm not." “I feel stuck.” “I have a calling, but where do I start?"

Right now, you have a choice. You can continue living within your default norms, playing it safe, clocking in and out every day, and scraping by to achieve what's supposed to make you happy hopefully. Or you can choose to accept the challenge of living beyond your default. Stop wishing to live your "best life” and start living your best life. Success leaves clues. And they're waiting for you to discover them.

George B. Thomas:

What's important is that you're stepping out of your comfort zone because many times I feel like the comfort zone is where we get stuck. And if the comfort zone is keeping you from doing and being what is you, the true you, then it's not really a comfort zone. It's a freaking jail. So here's the real deal Holyfield. And if when we can look at bravery in the way that we're talking about right now, it becomes something that is within everyone's reach.

George B. Thomas:

And the reason that I'm bringing that up is because, Liz, you even kind of alluded or said, like, I'm not brave or I'm not that brave or I don't have the it is in your reach to have that thing. Understand that it's not about the big moments. Bravery is in the small choices we make every day to be a little bit more honest, to be a little bit more authentic, to be a little bit more aligned with our values, to be a little bit more, well, us.

Liz Moorhead:

Welcome back to beyond your default. I'm your host, Liz Morehead. And as always, I'm joined by the one, the only George b Thomas who thank you, George, for the first time in 2 or 3 episodes. You haven't said something that absolutely terrified me in terms of our topic for today. You haven't threatened me.

Liz Moorhead:

You haven't made some sort of, well, you'll see comment. So just

George B. Thomas:

I mean, I could, but I won't. I'm not brave enough to actually do that this week.

Liz Moorhead:

I see what you did there.

George B. Thomas:

You like that?

Liz Moorhead:

See what you did there because we are talking about bravery this week. We're talking about what it looks and feels like versus what it actually looks and feels like. Right? That dissonance between what we're told what it is versus what it actually is. But before that, curiosity.

Liz Moorhead:

We just came out of a holiday weekend. What are your highlights and lowlights, bud?

George B. Thomas:

The lowlight is I suck at my brain sometimes. I wanna feel guilty for not doing work on a long

Liz Moorhead:

It was a weekend.

George B. Thomas:

Just hang on. Let me finish. Because, like, I was heading into the weekend, and I was like, oh, the wife's gone. The girls are gone. I've got an extra day.

George B. Thomas:

I have 3 days with no meetings. Like, imagine all the work that I could get done. And then I was like or I could just take 3 days off and actually become a potato. And so I did do some, like, internal work, Meaning, like, sidekick strategies beyond your default George b Thomas, like because there's things that we're prepping for that are coming to the masses, but client work kind of fell to the side from, like, watching the dogs because, again, people were gone. Binge watching Umbrella Academy all 4 seasons, by the way.

George B. Thomas:

Super interesting thoughts around that whole show, but not why we're here. And then also, I watched finally. I had been wanting to watch it. I watched the Gran Turismo, like, the kid who was, like, a online racer who became a real racer movie. Anyway, I did have some time to relax that I that's the highlight, by the way.

George B. Thomas:

It was quiet and relaxing and just but the low light is I woke up every morning of the weekend and this morning of this is Tuesday when we're recording this instead of typically Monday, going, oh, man, dude. Did you screw up? No. You didn't screw up. Did you screw up?

George B. Thomas:

So my highlights and my lowlights are around my mental unpacking of when to just take a break and when to actually work more.

Liz Moorhead:

Yeah. Because what's interesting about that mental narrative that you just talked about is that you could go one of 2 ways. You could say that friction in my head is telling me I should have done work, or that friction in my head is a symptom of me not knowing when to relax. Also, I opened up my Slack this morning. I'm very excited to dig into all the stuff you left me.

Liz Moorhead:

Don't

George B. Thomas:

be rude.

Liz Moorhead:

First of all, number 1, lie. The lie detector

George B. Thomas:

test is not that was a lie.

Liz Moorhead:

I love that kind of stuff. Usually, what I do is, like, when you leave me a bunch of videos, I'll just queue them up while I'm working in the morning, and it helps me, like, reinspired for the week. Yeah. So I like this stuff because you and I are kind of, like, on off schedules. You'll get stuff from me in the night times.

Liz Moorhead:

Yeah. I'm sleeping. Yeah. You're sleeping, and that's when Liz is up in her little cave of wonders doing her random ish. Right?

Liz Moorhead:

And then you are my little weekend warrior. Now what was interesting is for me is my little highlights and lowlights. We were talking about this before we hopped on. I actually was forced into taking meaningful time off this weekend.

George B. Thomas:

Is the universe wonderful?

Liz Moorhead:

Yes and no. Because well, here's the thing. It's a less extreme version of what we had a conversation about of, like, George had a plan until he didn't. I've realized I've criminalized off time. I've thought about taking vacations, and then I don't take them.

George B. Thomas:

You have

Liz Moorhead:

to take vacation. Or I do take them, and I still work.

George B. Thomas:

Inbound. Yeah.

Liz Moorhead:

Oh, okay.

George B. Thomas:

Alright.

Liz Moorhead:

No. But, like, I will take vacations and still work. I will take vacations and still say, hey. I'm available. And then finally No.

Liz Moorhead:

This past Friday, there was a massive area Internet outage where I was. I was able to still take some calls, which was good, but I definitely maxed out my hot spot. And I said, you know, I'm gonna check things out over the weekend. Still couldn't do it. And, honestly, I did not realize how burned out I was.

Liz Moorhead:

Because I think sometimes when we think about burnout, we think about burnout from the perspective of, I'm exhausted. I hate what I'm doing. Like, I'm just tired of it. The problem is I actually really love what we do, and I'm really inspired by what we do, and I my brain is constantly thinking about it. Yeah.

Liz Moorhead:

And it really reminded me when I finally was forced to disconnect, I didn't realize how exhausted I was. I slept for 10 hours one night.

George B. Thomas:

Oh, that's yeah. I've had days like that where all of a sudden I'll go to sleep and be like, am I ever waking up? And I I do. What's interesting, Liz, is there's a narrative that I think we need to pull at at some point because a conversation around how to diagnose burnout when you love what you do is a real thing. Because that's the thing.

George B. Thomas:

Like, I don't ever really correlate it to that I'm burnt out. I would say I'm tired, but what's the dang difference? Like, we should have an episode in the future where we dive into diagnosing burnt out and being tired in a world where you love everything that you do.

Liz Moorhead:

Well, the other thing too is that should you wait until you're burned out in order to actually take some rest? And that was the thing. I was dealing with this whole feeling of I feel guilty. I feel tired. It's like, Liz, you've been busting your ass.

George B. Thomas:

Yeah.

Liz Moorhead:

You have been producing you. Like, no one is questioning whether or not you're showing up.

George B. Thomas:

Yeah.

Liz Moorhead:

So maybe just, like, take a beat, and it worked out beautifully.

George B. Thomas:

Yeah, Liz. You should be brave enough to take a vacation.

Liz Moorhead:

Oh, how

George B. Thomas:

You should be brave enough to, like, take time for some oh, what is that called? Self care? Oh, yeah.

Liz Moorhead:

How long have you been I

George B. Thomas:

didn't do it at the beginning, but I just did it in the episode.

Liz Moorhead:

How long have you been waiting to do?

George B. Thomas:

Since the beginning when you said you didn't do anything to mess with me this morning. Like

Liz Moorhead:

I know. Thanks, bud. I really appreciated that. But so it was weird. It was a low light at first that then became a highlight.

Liz Moorhead:

And it made me realize, you know, Liz, if you wanna make sure there's no divine intervention about whether or not you, take time off and take some naps and some rest and some self care time, maybe you need to start planning that in. Yeah. But it ended up being a lot of fun, you know, to put the phone down, to not be always connected. And I'm excited because this week ends up being really perfect because I have so much deep work planned. I have basically no plans for this.

Liz Moorhead:

I'm just very, very excited to get back into it, and I feel very reinvigorated. The other highlight I will say, though, is I made my Italian wedding soup this weekend for friends. And just the healing power of that soup.

George B. Thomas:

I love I think we've said this on this podcast before, but I love me some good wedding soup.

Liz Moorhead:

Oh, it's the best. It is the best. And what's funny is my friend who I was with, I had given her the recipe before. And she says, Liz, I don't understand. Whenever you make it, it's different.

Liz Moorhead:

And I said, yes. Because there are 2 things that I do that I never put in the recipe because it's mine. Oh. Mhmm.

George B. Thomas:

See now. That's not fair.

Liz Moorhead:

I'm not allowed to. It's a family recipe secret.

George B. Thomas:

Oh, okay.

Liz Moorhead:

It's kinda like the 11 herbs and spices. I'll give you 10.

George B. Thomas:

Oh, yeah. Which, by the way, have you ever looked at KFC's, like I think it's their Twitter account because it's like who they follow. It's like somebody named Herb or something.

Liz Moorhead:

Oh, the 11 or they follow 11 herbs spices.

George B. Thomas:

Spices. Yeah. It's crazy. Anyway, not why we're here, but you you my brain went to, like, that

Liz Moorhead:

as you said.

George B. Thomas:

Yeah.

Liz Moorhead:

Mhmm. And I said, yes. There there are 1 or 2 things that I do that do not go in the recipe. And then at some point, I will tell somebody what those 1 or 2 things are.

George B. Thomas:

Oh.

Liz Moorhead:

As is traditional.

George B. Thomas:

I'm in the room when that happens because

Liz Moorhead:

It's stupidly simple, but it makes a huge difference.

George B. Thomas:

It's like my buddy who the other day, we went over, and he made chili, which by the way, there was a whole conversation of, like, who makes chili for a pool party. But here's what got it even more odd. The chili was amazing, but there was, like, questions about the chili. And so finally, my buddy was like, well, do you taste the cinnamon in it? And we're like, hit the brakes.

George B. Thomas:

You put cinnamon in your chili to which Yeah. He did. And then my one buddy goes, but it tastes like almost like barbecue chili. So it's not that hot spicy, like, puts you on your back, sweat your face off because it's a pool party. Well, here he had put not sponsored, by the way.

George B. Thomas:

I think it's baby Ray's or whatever. Yeah.

Liz Moorhead:

Sweet baby Ray's.

George B. Thomas:

Sweet baby Ray's. So barbecue sauce and cinnamon in the chili, which was very hearty and was, like, the best thing to eat at the pool party. Anyway, maybe that was the highlight of the week for me. I don't know.

Liz Moorhead:

Are we ready to get brave?

George B. Thomas:

Let's get brave.

Liz Moorhead:

So we already teased this a little bit, but I'm gonna keep this simple, guys. I think we need to have a structured conversation today around what we believe bravery to be and what it actually is. What we believe we should feel like when we are, quote, unquote, within the act of being brave, and what it actually feels like, which is often dry heaving. But that's really what I wanna talk about today, George. And I actually wanna go ahead and dive right into this conversation and ask you how you think our cultural perception of bravery affects how we act, and are there any misconceptions about what it means to be brave out there?

George B. Thomas:

I think so. It's funny because as soon as I read this question, for some reason, the word cultural stood out. And I immediately was like, what's the Bible say about bravery? And I don't know why when you like our culture, like, I went to the other side, but I did some digging. And and if you look at bravery in the Bible, it's like, okay.

George B. Thomas:

Where does bravery come from? Trusting in God's strength and protection in your life, and there's, you know, Joshua and Psalms and all sorts of places where you can find this information. In the Bible, it talks about bravery from a standpoint of courage to stand up, for righteousness, for the doing the right thing, being in the right places. Bravery is, like, this thing that you have because you're not worried about being persecuted. Actually, it's maybe even a thing that you lean into because of the bravery that you have.

George B. Thomas:

When when the Bible talks about bravery, it's about, like, overcoming fear and anxiety in your life. When it talks about bravery, it talks about leadership and service, which, you know, me, Liz, I was immediately nerd now. They're like like, yep. There's some leadership stuff from the Bible. Like, let's go.

George B. Thomas:

Shocking. And so if we think about just this idea of biblical bravery, it's not about and you're gonna hear this a couple times as we kinda move forward. It's not about this absence of fear. Because so many times, it's like this fear conversation and this bravery conversation get kind of, like, convoluted or stirred up together.

Liz Moorhead:

The word is conflated.

George B. Thomas:

Conflated. There you go. That's a I'm gonna use that in scrabble at some point in time. But it's this presence of, like, faith and trust in God's guidance and strength that allows you as a human to step out and stand firm in the face of adversity, acting according to, like, core values, will of God, regardless of, like, the personal risk that you might face. So, like and I wanted to unpack that piece because I feel like it's completely different than what when you say cultural perspective.

George B. Thomas:

And so if I just from that, go and answer your question, I think our culture has definitely shaped how we think about bravery. And, Liz, I would say it's maybe not always in the best way. When we think about bravery, we often picture these huge dramatic moments. I don't know. A a hero running into a burning building or somebody standing up to a villain or a bad I'm using air quotes if you you can't see this if you're listening.

George B. Thomas:

A bad human, right, a villain, a bad actor. When we think about bravery, we probably go to, like, our favorite movie, our favorite story. If we think about bravery, we go into the history books, then we're actually, you know, thinking about how it has to be this big, bold, visible thing, visible. Well, they were brave because we could see it happening. And, Liz, because of this, I think many people think that if they're not doing something epic, I should do that.

George B. Thomas:

Epic. Like, if they're not doing something epic, they're not being brave. And this is simply not reality. You see, this type of thinking, this epic, big, bold has to be seen. I think that it creates some big misconceptions.

George B. Thomas:

One of the most common ones is that, Liz, bravery means having no fear. Like and, again, I kind of alluded to this at the beginning, but we look at brave people and and think, man, they must be fearless, which by the way, there was there used to be, like, back in the I think it was eighties or nineties where it was, like, the a brand of, like, around this whole idea of, like, no fear. Right? I don't I don't know if any of the listeners are as old as me to remember no fear, but it was this, like, almost call to, like, well, not have fear. But, again, that's not all true at all.

George B. Thomas:

Like, bravery isn't about not being scared. Bravery is about feeling fear and still moving forward anyway. And so if we only think of bravery as this, like, fearlessness, we end up feeling like we're not brave because, well, we still feel afraid. And I know, like, you this is kind of hard to unpack, which is why I'm glad that we're having this conversation of, like because if you don't feel like you can be something because you're thinking of something else, then it's very hard to step out and be and do that thing. But the truth is, fear is actually part of being brave.

George B. Thomas:

So, listen, I'm gonna stop there. I have another misconception that I wanna talk about, but I'm gonna stop there because I wanna get your thoughts on that.

Liz Moorhead:

I agree with a lot of what you said. I think there is a perception of what we believe bravery to be when we personally and internally are at our most fearful. It is a story that we tell ourselves that unfortunately makes us feel as if we are not brave. Right? But it's exactly what you said.

Liz Moorhead:

We we believe to be brave is to be without fear. No. To be brave often feels like vomiting. To be brave often feels like, okay. I'm doing it scared.

Liz Moorhead:

I'm doing it anyway. Right? But I think the other thing we have to remember is that we are all very different. And so what we are afraid of, what can feel hard to us may not feel hard to somebody else. But what may feel easy to you may be hard to somebody else.

Liz Moorhead:

You may need to tap into bravery at times when your neighbor does not need to tap into bravery. But when we look at them and we see them doing something quote, unquote without fear, well, maybe that's because that's just the thing they aren't afraid of, but that doesn't mean they aren't afraid of other things. I think it's an interesting thought loop that we get caught in because we are trying to find a way to make ourselves feel as if we are lacking. We are telling ourselves a story about why we can't do something. And when we look at somebody else and go, but they're brave.

Liz Moorhead:

Honestly, that internal monologue we have has nothing to do with them. We are looking outside ourselves to have a conversation about something that should be completely internal.

George B. Thomas:

Oh, okay. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

George B. Thomas:

Yes. I love that you bring up this could be internal. I love that you like vision or seeing of the thing because that leads me into the other misconception is that bravery is always something that's loud and obvious. Mhmm. Which is not the truth.

George B. Thomas:

In reality, some of the bravest things we do are very quiet and very personal. Like, Liz, I started to break down things that could be considered very brave, me and you, by the way. Oh, boy. So some examples of my bravery that we've talked about on this podcast, embracing my full identity takes bravery. If you're going to embrace your full identity, you will need to be quietly and personally brave to get past that.

George B. Thomas:

This idea of integrating all aspects of your personality, your history for the good, even the rough parts. Like, it takes bravery. Challenging the default mindset. Right? Like, starting this podcast and advocating for living a life beyond your default, to hit record and just show up on a daily basis or weekly basis, quiet and very personal bravery, facing fear head on and reframing how I even think about fear to intersect with this conversation of and by the way, you can go listen to, historical episodes where we talk about fear, and I talk about false evidence appearing real and transforming fear into excitement to better handle challenging situations.

George B. Thomas:

Bravery. Being vulnerable in public, self belief, high school dropout, 1 room log cabin, almost dying 3 times. Putting all that out into the world, bravery. Liz, you on the podcast have been very brave, letting go of energetic ghosts. Right?

George B. Thomas:

Identifying and releasing relationships and situations that drain your energy, facing the discomfort of potential loss in your life, bravery, embracing this idea of authentic conversations. The fact that most people don't wanna, but you're encouraging deep and sometimes challenging discussions. Right? George, when are you gonna show up as a whole human? Right?

George B. Thomas:

I hear you telling stories of, like, these conversations with other people in your life, Navigating this journey each week, the uncertainty of the personal growth that will or will not come from the investment of time, but it takes bravery to be intentional about where your energy goes and stepping into this beyond your default, which many times can feel like the unknown, and it's gonna change these phases that you go through. That takes courage, that takes bravery. It's setting boundaries and saying no sometimes to something that doesn't feel right, or admitting to others that we need help, like these acts of bravery. Ladies and gentlemen, they don't always get an applause. They don't always get attention, but they're incredibly courageous because they come from these places of deep honesty and authenticity.

George B. Thomas:

And, again, I'm sure if we could get you on the mic, you would have your own list of things that you could be like, well, if I look at it that way, I'm pretty dang brave. So, Liz, I'm I'm curious about your thoughts. Like, you brought up culture. So have you seen these cultural ideas shape what people in your circles or you yourself think about bravery and and what it is?

Liz Moorhead:

Yeah. I mean, especially the funny thing is is that I don't think about it too much when I don't have a personal circumstance in my life where I need to or I perceive a need to be brave. Right? When I'm not stressed about something, I tend not to be terribly worried about the whole bravery quandary. It's just not a hypothetical thought experiment I'm engaging in.

Liz Moorhead:

But I think and maybe this is just me, maybe others can relate to this, but I know if there's something in the back of my mind that is lingering that I'm not addressing or it's no I know it's something where, quote, unquote, I need to be brave, I'll start seeing reminders everywhere of what I believe bravery is. And depending on my head space and my mindset, I will either be looking for examples of what I should do or subconsciously seeking out evidence that I am not brave or there's something different. Right? So that was what I was getting to before. Right?

Liz Moorhead:

Like, let's pretend for a moment that, you know, you have a a fear of dogs, but your friend doesn't. Yeah. Okay? You look at your friend and they just seem so brave. They're not brave.

Liz Moorhead:

They just don't have a a built in, baked in fear of dogs. And so you just start drawing these comparisons. But let's take it to a work thing. Right? Like, let's say you're someone who wants to get into public speaking and you have a friend who is a public speaker and they're naturally very good at it.

George B. Thomas:

Not scary at all.

Liz Moorhead:

Yeah. For that Yeah. For them, they may say, wow. They're so brave to go on stage. Ugh.

Liz Moorhead:

And they're also just so good at it. What's interesting is whenever I find myself drawing those comparisons particularly around bravery, if I'm being brutally honest with myself, I'm not just sitting there comparing whether or not they are brave. I'm also comparing talent. I'm comparing other things. So this is where we have to be very mindful of the thoughts that we're having in those moments.

Liz Moorhead:

Right? We we naturally and subconsciously seek out evidence of the story we want to believe and reinforce. And sometimes bravery is a part of that equation. Right? We are not brave enough, but we are not only not brave enough, we are not talented enough, so why bother?

Liz Moorhead:

We are not only not brave enough, we are not experienced enough, so why bother? We are not only not brave enough, we are more likely to get rejected than whomever we are projecting the story upon. Right?

George B. Thomas:

Downward spiral.

Liz Moorhead:

Exactly. So often, bravery is a Trojan horse for us to kind of shove a lot of our own other insecurities in there. It's usually hiding something a lot deeper.

George B. Thomas:

It's funny. You're breaking my brain. Not to interrupt you. I do apologize. But listening to you do that immediately, and I don't know why, but for some reason, my brain goes, man, if that's the game the listeners play, like, inject some I am statements into your life like yesterday.

George B. Thomas:

I am powerful. I am educated. I am brave. Whatever you usually let your negative Nancy or, you know, negative Norman Brain do, find the polar opposite of that and, like, I am statements. I sometimes will fall asleep.

George B. Thomas:

Like, you know, I'm struggling, by the way, not that you can come into my bedroom when I'm sleeping, listeners, but if you could, you know that I'm struggling if it's a night where I fall asleep to I am statements. Because I am literally reenergizing, rejuvenating myself even when I'm try like, just let it drip into my brain, Lord, please. Because I need a little more juice to make it through the next couple days or the next couple weeks, or I've been struggling with who I am and why you have me on this dangone planet. I'll be going to sleep with I am statements.

Liz Moorhead:

Well, let's get into what bravery actually is. George, from your perspective, what is bravery really? So full Real softball for you.

George B. Thomas:

Full full circle ish right here. Bravery is choosing to be true to yourself even when it's scary or uncomfortable. It's about making decisions, big, small, life, whatever, that align with who you really are or maybe even who you wanna become, and more importantly, what you believe in rather than what's easy or expected. The two directions that I would ask humans not to follow are the easy street and expected avenue. Bravery isn't something you either have, by the way, or don't have.

George B. Thomas:

Bravery is something that you practice. And, Liz, during the first part of our conversation, I couldn't help but, like, think about in my brain. Like, I don't know if I'm thinking about bravery as I do the thing, but many times, it's reflective of, like, oh, that took courage. That took bravery. Like, why was I able to easily step into that?

George B. Thomas:

Because of the practice, 1% better each and every day, of leaning into the true self, leaning into comfort in discomfort. Ladies and gentlemen, it's about taking small steps every day to move you closer to the life you wanna live. The precipice of this entire podcast, a transformational journey from being stuck in the pit to being able to celebrate at the peak. But these small steps get you closer to this life that you wanna live even when those steps feel uncertain, even when it feels like it's a step you can't take. The truth is, by the way, Liz, you ask me, like, what is bravery really?

George B. Thomas:

It depends. It's that's a great marketing answer. It depends, but it's different for everyone. Like, it will look different for you than it does for me, than it does for almost every single one of the listeners. For some of the listeners, it might mean speaking up in a meeting, at work, or at home when you're usually quiet because that's just who you are expected to be.

George B. Thomas:

For others, it could be ending a relationship that isn't healthy or taking a leap into that new career, which sounds really scary. Well, I don't know those people. I don't know if I'm good enough for that job. You only know once you actually dive in. Like, I can't help but think about when went from working, the expected 40 hours a week, insurance, 401 k, like, all the things to how about we just give all that up and go out on our own?

George B. Thomas:

Like, that sounds amazingly easy and expected. Nope. It's the exact opposite of what would have been easy and expected. So, like, pray for one person might not be for another. By the way, I would start another company tomorrow because been there, done it, where there's people listening to this that are still in a job that they might not wanna be in and dream of doing their own thing, but that would take courage and bravery.

George B. Thomas:

And, by the way, a little bit of strategy to get the point where you can actually do that. What's important is that you're stepping out of your comfort zone, because many times, I feel like the comfort zone is where we get stuck. And if the comfort zone is keeping you from doing and being what is you, the true you, then it's not really a comfort zone. It's a freaking jail. So here's the real deal, Holyfield.

George B. Thomas:

And if when we can look at bravery in the way that we're talking about right now, it becomes something that is within everyone's reach. And the reason that I'm bringing that up is because, Liz, you even kind of alluded or said, like, I'm not brave, or I'm not that brave, or I don't have the it is in your reach to have that thing. Understand that it's not about the big moments. Bravery is in the small choices we make every day to be a little bit more honest, to be a little bit more authentic, to be a little bit more aligned with our values, to be a little bit more, well, us.

Liz Moorhead:

So how do you see it as different from fearlessness? Because some of what you talked about here is either absence of fear or not letting fear control you or having a mastery of your fear. But how do you see those two things as being different, and why is that distinction important?

George B. Thomas:

First of all, it's funny because I had to sit and unpack this, which is, by the way, why I love this show and I love the time to do this because bravery and fearlessness for me often got mixed up into, like, this what what word did you use earlier? Convoluted?

Liz Moorhead:

Conflated.

George B. Thomas:

Conflated. Yeah. Like, just this thing. Right? And so fearlessness is when you don't feel any fear at all.

George B. Thomas:

It's like jumping into something without thinking about the risks or what could go wrong. It's just like fearlessness. We're just no fear. We're just gonna do it. Don't care.

George B. Thomas:

For some, jumping out of a plane, no fear. For some humans, hopping on a roller coaster, no fear. For others, climbing a 30 foot ladder, no fear. This idea of not paying attention to what could happen, the ramifications, being fearless, It it sounds nice. But if not kept in check, it can be a bit reckless because there's no awareness of the danger or the consequences of the thing that you're doing that you have no fear or being fearless around.

George B. Thomas:

FYI listeners, the 3 things that I listed are the 3 things that scare me to death. Like, scare me crapless, skydiving, roller coasters, and heights. For me, it's not no fear. It's, oh, god. Like, fear.

George B. Thomas:

But here's the thing. I've climbed a tall ladder and even ridden a roller coaster. Why? Bravery because I wanted to ride the roller coaster with my family. I needed to go fix something for the family.

George B. Thomas:

Bravery due to the service or communal reasons to get past the fear. You see, bravery is all about feeling the fear and deciding to move forward anyway. It's when you know the risks and you understand what could happen. The roller coaster could go off the tracks and I could die today. I could lean over to the right too far and the ladder would slide down and I'd end in the hospital.

George B. Thomas:

But you still choose to act because you believe in what you're doing. I believe that needs fixed. I believe I need to spend time with my family or whoever it is that you're doing this thing. This is important, by the way, understanding this. Because if we think we need to be fearless to be brave, we might not ever act.

George B. Thomas:

And the lack of acting is the worst thing that we can do. Imagine if we never created this podcast. Imagine if we never created our own business. Imagine if we never got married. Imagine if we never had kids.

George B. Thomas:

Like, I can go through this list of things through my life, where in the moment, I might not feel like I was being brave, but because I pushed forward and did the act, I was actually being very brave, very courageous. Listeners, I want you to think about what are the acts that you've done that if you historically look back, you're like, oh, I'm a badass. That's where you need to lean into. That's the energy. If we don't pay attention to the acts that we've had, we'd wait forever for the fear to go away, and we'd miss out on a lot of the opportunities, the magical moments on the other side of that fear because we are able to activate or engage bravery in our life and lean into those opportunities of growth through the discomfort of this thing.

George B. Thomas:

And by the way, you might be hanging on a a string and wondering, but, George, you only mentioned ladders and roller coasters. I'm just gonna step out right here and be very brave. Ladies and gentlemen, I don't think I'll ever look at skydiving as an opportunity for growth, but I digress.

Liz Moorhead:

That's gonna be a hard pass for me too, dawg. So I could be honest.

George B. Thomas:

I'm not doing it. Being for real. When we see bravery as action in the face of fear, we start to understand that fear and again, you can diagnose what you truly believe and think about fear, listen to the historical podcast. But you start to understand that fear or the energy is a natural part of life. Having these moments of fear doesn't mean we're weak or incapable.

George B. Thomas:

Punchline, it just means we're freaking human. And being human means we get to decide what to do with that fear. You can let it stop you, or you can use it as a guide towards what really matters in your life.

Liz Moorhead:

So what does it feel like for you, George, when you're actually being brave? What's it feel like for you? What the actual physical or emotional feelings that you feel?

George B. Thomas:

Yeah. This one's a hard one for me because, first of all, I think we have to realize, I may say how it feels for me, and it may be a complete disconnect for the listeners. Because being brave feels different for everyone, but it does usually come with a mix of emotion. And we've talked about fear. Right?

George B. Thomas:

What happens when you're in this fear or energy moment of your life? Palms might get sweaty. Your knees might get weak. You might feel like you have a knot in your stomach, which, by the way, is it just me or is anybody else thinking about the Eminem song right now?

Liz Moorhead:

I was literally about to say about mom's spaghetti.

George B. Thomas:

Arms are heavy. Like, the lose yourself lyrics, by the way. I'm like, okay. I just recited Eminem on Yep. Beyond Your Default podcast.

George B. Thomas:

But anyway, sweaty palms, weak knees, heart racing, like, these are all signs that you are stepping into something uncertain or challenging in your life. The interesting thing for me, and this is where listeners may be like me, I may be like them, is there's also this thing that happens in fear. In the churning it or activating the bravery, there's this sense of clarity and purpose, and even excitement. Some people have looked at me like I have 3 heads when I make this certain statement where I'm like, oh, man. I get excited when life gets rough.

George B. Thomas:

And, like, what the is wrong with you, dude? And I'm like, oh, I can't wait to see who I'm gonna be on the other side of it. Because there's this clarity, and there's this purpose, and there's this excitement for understanding the journey, and growth comes through those chaotic moments that induce fear and and activate you to be brave. It's like if you get out of your brain, that, like, lizard brain area, it's like you know deep down that you're doing something important. Something that is true to who you are, true to who many times you're afraid to show the world.

George B. Thomas:

It's a whole another podcast. But these magic moments in life are always on the other side of this thing that we call fear, and the tool to get past it, to get from here to there, this is exactly what we're talking about, bravery. When you're being brave, first of all, I don't even know if you're like, and I'm being brave right now. Like, it's I don't think it works like that. But you may have this, and this is me.

George B. Thomas:

Right? But you may have this. It is a strange mix of anxiety and peace at the same dang time. There's the tension of this stepping into the unknown, but this sense of liberation because you're doing what feels right. How many times in your life, listeners, are you making the hard decisions to just do what feels right versus what your circle expects?

George B. Thomas:

When you're going through this bravery vortex, many times it can feel like you're breaking free from what's been holding you back. It can feel like you're actually standing up for yourself in a way that you never have been able to before. Bravery, I would say, it's not comfortable. Maybe there might be times where it's less uncomfortable, but there is a power in it. A feeling of being fully alive, being fully aligned, and being fully activated.

George B. Thomas:

If you do anything from this podcast around bravery, realize that it's around being alive, aligned, and activated in the directions that you need to go. For me, I know that there is a divine inspiration that is putting me on a path. For you, it might be you. It might be the universe. Like Liz, it might be your dang inner cupcake.

George B. Thomas:

That's how it's gonna be different for everybody, but I need you to lean into this being alive, being aligned and activated. And think back to a time, listeners, when you did something that scared the absolute crap out of you. You did the right thing because it was the right thing to do. And why am I getting you to call back to that? Because you did it once.

George B. Thomas:

You can do it again. And when you make it a repeatable action over and over and over again, it becomes easier. When you reflect back to that time, by the way, scared the crap out of me, did what was right because it's right, how did that feel like in your body? What was going on through your mind? Because if you can record what was happening in your mind and understand the feeling that was in your body, you can pick it up and diagnose it in the moment.

George B. Thomas:

You asked me as part of that question I feel like it was a 2 part question you asked me. Can you share a personal experience of what it felt like? The first time I rode a roller coaster, I was scared crapless. The first time I asked a girl out, I felt like I was gonna vomit. The first time I rode a horse, by the way, felt like I had zero control.

George B. Thomas:

The time I started my own business, like I was jumping off a cliff. The time I launched this podcast, like I was asking others to judge me. It's just a part of life. It's a part of making choices. You can't get away from it.

George B. Thomas:

Quit looking at Hollywood. Look internal. Look at your heart, your brain. It's not something that you don't have. It's something you've been doing.

George B. Thomas:

Now just pay attention to it.

Liz Moorhead:

You know, for me, it's similar to what you've discussed, and it's also a bit different. I think there are some of the basics that we've talked about. You know, we've been beating the drum pretty hard that there's this really great quote. There there are a thousand quotes that are basically some version of this. True courage is in facing danger when you are afraid, l Frank Baum.

Liz Moorhead:

Courage is is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, but not absence of fear. Like and that's Mark Twain. Like, there are so many quotes out there that are beating us over the head of, like, bravery is not caring. It's not that. So, you know, there are times where bravery feels like drive heaving.

Liz Moorhead:

There are times where bravery feels like I am absolutely, deathly afraid. But true bravery, for me, at least, is where I am not thinking about bravery at all.

George B. Thomas:

Yep.

Liz Moorhead:

Because it's kinda like, do you wanna make real money? Don't make money the goal. Right? Do you want to do all of these different things in your life? Well, if you obsessively cling to a very specific ideal of what success looks like or a very specific metric, you're going to miss the mark entirely or you are going to forever stunt your growth.

Liz Moorhead:

Like, that's just the reality. So when I think about moments of true bravery, I'm not sitting there going, do I feel brave yet? Do I feel brave yet? Do I feel brave yet? There's another quote that's, you know, bravery is is an action.

Liz Moorhead:

It is movement. It is doing the thing. The moments where I'm truly brave are where bravery for me is not a part of the conversation feeling or intellectually at all. I'm doing the thing. And I may be experiencing fear while I'm doing it.

Liz Moorhead:

I may be experiencing all of these other things, but you gotta go. You gotta go. You gotta go do the thing. And so bravery to me often is something maybe I may think about in hindsight. Man, that was a brave thing I did.

Liz Moorhead:

Right? If we constantly feel, like, we need to tap into bravery in order to be brave, we're kinda missing the point. If you have something in front of you that requires you to do something, stop worrying about whether or not you're brave and start thinking about the fact of, like, if you're sitting there waiting to feel motivated to do something, you will be waiting forever. Mhmm. If you are waiting to feel confident about something before you do something, you will be waiting to feel confident forever.

Liz Moorhead:

It's that thing that James Clear talks about in atomic habits. Right? Motion before emotion. And we've talked about this on another podcast. It there one of my favorite quotes is you're not a tree.

Liz Moorhead:

Move. Now granted, I sound like I'm doing this from the perspective of Liz moves and moves through fear and stuff. I've written no. Ding a lings. I still find myself in moments of paralysis.

Liz Moorhead:

I still find myself in moments where I get stuck. But I've noticed the times when I struggle quote unquote to be brave, I'm masking the real problem. It's not that I don't know how to be brave. In many cases, it's just because I feel overwhelmed and don't know what my first step should be. Or I don't know it's okay to ask for help.

Liz Moorhead:

But often, it's just what the first step is. Because I'm either obsessively thinking about every single step I think I need to take, or there are too many things all at once and I don't know where to start. And all I need to do is just sit down and then make list, or make a plan, or just step out on stage, or just do the dang thing. I wrote about this once in the newsletter beyond your default.comforward/newsletter. We want things to be harder than they actually are, because it creates a safety in which we don't need to take action if things are harder than they actually are.

Liz Moorhead:

Like, think about having to break up with someone. Yes. Theoretically, having tough conversations is tough. But if let's strip all the emotion out of it. You need to call them.

Liz Moorhead:

That's a phone call. You need to set a time to meet. That's not difficult either. And then between 5 20 minutes or maybe longer depending on how they react to the new overall, it's about cumulatively 30 to 45 minutes of lift. And I know that sounds like really heartless to say it that way, but let's be realistic here.

Liz Moorhead:

We often will exert a lot more mental energy than it does to actually complete a task. You know, the breakup. Again, that thing could take 5 minutes. They might get upset. They might throw water in your face, and then they may walk out the door.

Liz Moorhead:

They may actually ask a lot of questions, so it takes an hour. Either way, the lift is pretty light. You have to sit with uncomfortable feelings, but feelings, it's just a feeling and it sucks to hurt people. It sucks to do things that aren't fun. Even going to the DMV, which we also will just hold over our heads, and it's awful.

Liz Moorhead:

Right? So even that, like, is an hour, maybe 2. Actually, if you do a little planning, you could probably get an appointment and you'd be fine too. You know? It's one of those things where we think in order to be brave, we must make the goal being brave, and I think that's where we get tripped up.

Liz Moorhead:

So when we ask what bravery feels like, bravery feels like you're not thinking about bravery. You're just dealing with whatever is in front of you. And it'll be messy, and it'll be uncomfortable.

George B. Thomas:

Oh, yeah.

Liz Moorhead:

But like like I said, a breakup, you will spend hours, days, weeks giving yourself mental anguish over something that may cumulatively from a lift and transactional perspective anywhere from a half an hour to 2 to 3 hours. You can watch The Godfather part 2 and have it be done. And I know, again, that's a very heartless way to put it, but think about things in your life where you have spent more time thinking and worrying about the thing than actually doing the thing. I had a work task last week, and from the outside by the way, I don't think anybody would have noticed I had an issue with it. Got it in on time.

Liz Moorhead:

Looked great. Client approved it. Everything was awesome. Just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. That was a task I put off.

Liz Moorhead:

Still hit my deadline, but I definitely was, like, I'm gonna knock it out at the beginning of the morning because it's the thing that's freaking me out. Definitely punted it to the next morning. Thought about it that whole day that I had punted it, and it was fine. It ended up taking me about 35 minutes to complete, and it went swimmingly well. And it was delivered on time, and the client was happy, and everyone was happy.

Liz Moorhead:

It was a dumb thing. I gave myself 12 hours of anguish for absolutely no reason. So I don't know. That's my thoughts about bravery in terms of what it feels like. Bravery, true real bravery feels like doing whatever it is that needs to be done without thinking about, am I being brave?

Liz Moorhead:

This big brave. Do you think John McClain was sitting there worried about being brave in Die Hard? No. And that man was miserable the whole time. He was complaining the whole time.

Liz Moorhead:

He did not to be there. He was supposed to not be working. He was, like, what how do I get into this shit? You know what I mean? Like, that's what makes John McClain, but now granted, is he completely unrealistic and throw in his body, like, withstands things that should not be with yes, because it's movies and shut up.

Liz Moorhead:

But at the same time, that's what makes Die Hard so flipping, quote unquote, relatable. John McClane doesn't wanna be there. And then in Die Hard 2, he doesn't want to be there extra. And he even goofs, like, just cut as a cheesy guy. How does this keep happening to me?

Liz Moorhead:

And he's not happy about it. He's not sitting there like, yes, a moment to be brave, a moment to explode, a moment to take my shoes off and walk across glass or go through on a snowmobile or in an airport. No. He's so relatable because he's just going forward because he has to.

George B. Thomas:

Yeah.

Liz Moorhead:

That's what bravery feels like to me.

George B. Thomas:

I love that. Moving forward because you have to. I totally thought of Nike, like, just do it. Just leave. Just do it.

Liz Moorhead:

Like, we're having a whole conversation about bravery today, and really the whole point of the conversation is stop obsessing about being brave and just get your ish done. Like, that's really and here's the thing. And going back to other conversations we've had, doing the dang thing, it's hard because it's easy. You want it to be harder than it actually is because actually going through the motions and doing whatever it is that you're supposed to be doing, that's not a lot of effort. What you're concerned about is sitting with uncomfortable feelings.

Liz Moorhead:

What you're concerned about is rejection. What you're concerned about is am I already too late? Well, none of those things are gonna change. You just gotta go. So, George, I'm curious.

Liz Moorhead:

What's the one thing you want people to take away from this episode? Or do you want me to go first?

George B. Thomas:

I'll go first because mine's simple. Look for ways that you can be alive. Look for ways that you can take action. Look for ways where, again, you're not thinking about being brave, but because you are alive and you are a human who takes actions. I am a human who takes actions.

George B. Thomas:

I am a human who is brave. I am a human who embraces discomfort. Just be alive and take the actions you need to take.

Liz Moorhead:

My one thing from the episode is this, you're already brave. I guarantee you, if you were to look back at your own life right now, you could make a pretty substantial list of moments where you know and can see now you were brave. And in the moment, you did not feel brave. Bravery is kind of like a recession. You can really only declare a recession after it's already occurred.

Liz Moorhead:

You're probably not gonna feel brave about something until after it's already happened. Look back at your own life. You will find more evidence of you being a brave whole ass human than a scaredy cat. And guess what? If you even find evidence of, like, man, I could have been more brave.

Liz Moorhead:

Fantastic. Lesson learned. Congratulations. You're a human being. You're not gonna be perfect all the time.

Liz Moorhead:

None of us can be imperfection is exhausting and boring. Your goal this week, my challenge to you is to champion the moments where you were brave and didn't give yourself that pat on the back because you earned it. You really did. And then, put bravery out of your mind. Recognize bravery in retrospect.

Liz Moorhead:

Don't seek it out as you look towards your future.

George B. Thomas:

Yeah. There you go. I mean, listen. If you're listening to this podcast, you're focused on personal growth. You're trying to develop yourself to be the best human.

George B. Thomas:

You're trying to develop your lifestyle to be a life that you're living beyond your default. Bravery is the doorway to improving your decision making along the way. It's the doorway to enabling you to activate problem solving skills that you're gonna need when the hills and valleys of life. Bravery is going to be the doorway that helps you strengthen relationships and helps you build inner trust and outer trust. It's gonna be the doorway that creates this positive change that you're going through.

George B. Thomas:

It's the doorway to the passion and purpose that you need. Just be brave. Open up the door and walk that path to a life beyond your default.