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Becoming an entrepreneur takes grit.
Deciding to do it solo takes courage.
This is 1,000 Routes, the podcast where we explore the stories of solopreneurs who have made the bet on themselves to build a business that serves their life. Every episode you'll hear about the lessons they've learned and the uncommon routes they've taken to stand out in a world that is purposefully trying to commoditize them.
Ryan Baum [00:00:00]:
I like have an idea, I don't see people doing it. And I wonder to myself, “Am I the genius who's ahead of the curve, or am I the idiot who's missing what everyone else is seeing and I'm not?” And of course, you know, because it's an internal dialogue, I usually shift to the latter, and I'm like, “no, I definitely am, I'm missing something. There's a reason people don't do this.”
Nick Bennett [00:00:17]:
Hey, it's Nick, and welcome to 1000 Routes, the podcast where I explore the stories of solopreneurs who have made the bet on themselves to build a business that serves their life. Every episode, you'll hear all about the lessons they've learned and the uncommon routes taken to stand out in a world that is purposefully trying to commoditize them.
Ryan Baum [00:00:39]:
My name is Ryan Baum, and I am a growth consultant that works with companies in the tech space on marketing. I have a content marketing background, but I kind of do a lot of different things throughout the program.
Nick Bennett [00:00:52]:
Dude, this is exciting. I'm excited to chat with you because I've known you for a little while now, but we have, I think you have more. We have more mutual friends than any other, like, connection on the planet. Like, every time I turn around someone, you're hanging out with somebody I know. Like, just this morning, I interviewed Tommy Walker, and he and I were chatting about his course, and I look at his landing page, there's a testimonial from you on there. And I'm like, how do you know Ryan? I'm about to chat with Ryan today. Like, every. I was chatting with Erica Schneider recently, and she's like, ryan and I were just hanging out the other day.
Nick Bennett [00:01:29]:
Like, dude, you're everywhere. I look up and you're hanging with, I think, the crew over at sweet fish. You're in like, the content house or something like that. Like, on the panel, sitting and hanging with those guys. I'm like, everywhere I turn, you are there, dude. Like, how are you are everywhere at once. And now, just for people who are years only, Ryan is in living his most Florida man life right now, hanging poolside like swim trunks, chillin, uh, inj. Like, living his best life right now.
Ryan Baum [00:01:59]:
Yeah, I do have a shirt on with the, with the swim trunks. For those that are listening in, Ryan.
Nick Bennett [00:02:04]:
Is fully clothed, but I'm just saying, he's like, not office Ryan. He's just unapologetically Ryan right now, hanging out at the pool.
Ryan Baum [00:02:11]:
Yeah, that's, you know, that's the only setting, like, I told you, and kind of, we were chatting before the call. Um, Devin Bramhall once told me, like, you are unapologetically yourself. And I love that as a compliment. I think for the most part, it's a good thing. I think I'm unable to be fake or be, like, overly professional, which has gotten me into trouble for sure, in, like, especially full time jobs. You and me? Yeah. I don't know, leave well enough alone when I know something is, like, fully wrong and everyone knows it's wrong, and I'm like, we're just gonna sit there and act like it's not wrong, but in a consulting environment, I think it's actually really good. Cause I think.
Ryan Baum [00:02:47]:
I think you told me this. I've had other people tell me this, that as a consultant, you're selling yourself as much as, not more than your work. And so I think it is a more kind of, like, approachable image. People feel like they know me also, in terms of, like, the three people you mentioned, those are actually, like, a really good. All three good examples of kind of how I've built this network. And so when I was at Gorgias, and I, you know, when I started, it was, like, December 2021, and I was the first content marketer hired to build the program. And I got brought in by a vp who got fired a month into my tenure. And then we lost, like, three or four marketers, all in, like, a two week period that he had brought.
Ryan Baum [00:03:25]:
Because I came in on a wave that he had hired, and some of them were from his past company, and there's a lot of things going on. And so they all, like, just dropped. And so I got booted over to the product marketing lead who didn't really have a ton of content experience. And, yeah, I was kind of, like, honestly in a panic mode. And so that was when I reached out to Tommy, and I literally just cold DM'd him in superpath. And I was like, hey, what if you mentored me? That'd be cool. I kind of need that right now. And, like, it was obviously a little bit more than that.
Ryan Baum [00:03:55]:
But honestly, that was kind of the vibe of the message. I was just like, look, I'm in this situation where I clearly need someone who is senior to me, where we can, like, kind of gut check what I'm doing. I'm not gonna get that here. Would you be open to it? And it's funny because Tommy came back and was like, you know, I am pretty busy, and, you know, it is hard to just kind of, like, give that time away. Cause I do offer consulting, and, like, I was like, oh, well, I do not have that budget, so, like, you know, much respect. Thank you for the time, and I'll see you later. And he messaged me back the next day, and was like, let's do it. And I think his thinking at the time was like, he wanted to and probably had some of the courses and stuff that he's putting out now in the back of his head.
Ryan Baum [00:04:37]:
Even two years ago, knowing Tommy, it's always, like, the master plan he's running through. But I think he basically wanted to chat through some of these topics and kind of refine his thinking by explaining them, sharing them, gut checking them, all of that. And so he was only, like, the second or the third person that I had, like, cold DM'd. The first one was Jimmy daily, actually, when I was still at Alexa, because they were driving me insane, and I felt like I was gaslighting myself. Like, I'm not a good content marketer. And I literally got on a call with him, and I told him all the things I was trying to do that they wouldn't let me do. And he was like, brother, go to literally, any other company and just do these things. And you will understand that you are a good content marketer because you're doing all the things that are right.
Ryan Baum [00:05:19]:
You just can't do them. And I was like, cool. So, like, honestly, Jimmy may be the reason why I'm still in content marketing, because he's the reason that I was like, let me go try it one more time at, like, a real company. And so, yeah, basically, Erica, I met at a superpath meetup that I organized for Jimmy. He talked all through Covid about how he wanted to get people together in person when things were open again. And so I literally just hit him up, and I was like, and I didn't have the relationship back then that I have with him now. I was like, hey, I want to put this on for you. Like, I'll plan it.
Ryan Baum [00:05:46]:
I have a venue for you. And he was like, hell, yeah. And so he sponsored it. He came out, flew out, and did the event with us, and that's actually where I met Erica, even before she started doing all the LinkedIn posts. So, yeah, I think it's just putting yourself out there, being really open to chatting with new people. I've sent probably, like, 100 cool DM's since I sent that one to Tommy. And actually, that's my preferred method of meeting people, because I think even when I have someone who can make an intro, I think people respect when you just, like, slide into the DM's and say, hey, I really respect your work, and I love to just chat.
Nick Bennett [00:06:22]:
People respect it when you do it with, like, a tactful. Way. Like, you roll up and you're trying to cold pitch somebody something stupid. It's a different experience is when you show up with, like, a genuine intent and you're like, hey, I want to learn from you, or, like, I want to build a relationship with you. And so it's like, it's funny. It's everywhere I turn, you're plugged into the network, and I think it's. I think that that has a lot to do with. I think how you're building, what you're building right now.
Nick Bennett [00:06:54]:
And I think that's one of the most interesting things to me about you, is, like, so we met. I don't know, it was, like, last end of last year sometime, and you were transitioning out of Gorgias, and you're starting to kind of figure out what your solopreneur life was going to be like. And you've had some starts and stops, and it's like, talk me through some of the things that you've been working through from then till now. Really?
Ryan Baum [00:07:18]:
Yeah. Well, you know, for you and everyone else who's listening at home, let me be very clear that I still have no clue.
Nick Bennett [00:07:26]:
No one has a clue.
Ryan Baum [00:07:27]:
Yeah, I'm working on it. I'm working on it, and I'm starting to get more feedback loops and understanding what I do and don't like, but, yeah, it's still very much a work in progress.
Nick Bennett [00:07:36]:
And honestly, I appreciate you caveating this with that, but, like, I will caveat that with. Nobody has a clue and nobody has it all figured out. And that's what I think you've been exceptionally forward about. Just like, you're like, I'm trying to figure this out. I'm trying to build this thing in a way that suits my life.
Ryan Baum [00:07:57]:
Yeah. So I've been. Now it's, like, six to eight months, and I've been doing some. I left Gorgias. I had, like, my severance package, and I have done client work here and there over to kind of extend the Runway. I also am, like, very lucky that I was able to save money and things like that before this happened. So I did have a little bit of cushion to play with. And honestly, it was one of those situations where I actually could feel for those first, even, like, four or five months, the almost like I was at pause and the inertia, my body almost felt like, oh, I still have to keep going.
Ryan Baum [00:08:37]:
I have to keep the momentum. I can't just pause and eat, pray, love. I have to eat, pray, love, and build business. I even said this to my therapist a couple weeks ago, I was, like, looking back, it sounds absolutely insane, because people trying to discover themselves will burn out. People trying to build a business will burn out. My dumbass looked at the calendar, and I was like, no, I can do both for sure. Let's do both. Let's send it.
Ryan Baum [00:09:04]:
And I think what I did was I compromised on both too much. And so then I basically had to do a period where I just kind of did the eat, pray, love a little bit more and really think about, like, I realized I got to 30 without ever asking myself, what do I want out of life? And I know that that's not old in the grand scheme of things, but I feel like it's too grown to be asking that question, right? At least not for the first time.
Nick Bennett [00:09:27]:
You know, my mom always tells me when I have those moments of, like, existential crisis every once in a while. Mom, be like, Nick, I don't know what want to be when I grow up. She's like, looking at retirement, and she's like, I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up. So I feel you. But also, at the same time, like, life circumstances put you in positions to kind of throw out the plan that we thought we had, and you found yourself in a situation where you were like, hmm. Like, I can rewrite this.
Ryan Baum [00:10:00]:
Absolutely. And I think, like, look, I was forced to pause, right? Because I did not leave my last job by choice, right? And then I had my neighbor across the hall. His name was Antonis, and he was 36, and he had a baby girl. And six months in, got diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. And right after her first birthday passed, that was the neighbor. I told you, I babysit sometimes. And so, you know, the situation is, like. It made me really think about, we don't have as much time as we think we do.
Ryan Baum [00:10:39]:
My dad was in the process of deciding that he wanted to retire, so he actually did that today. That's why I'm in Florida. I'm here to surprise him. He doesn't even know I'm here yet, but he had 35 years at the same company. And just, like, all these things around me, I was like, I don't want to wait to do this any longer. And I'm afraid, like, I have this moment of clarity, and I can look back at times in my life where I've kind of just let the wave of momentum of work or whatever, success, like achievement, even in college, even in high school, kind of just push me forward, and I just needed desperately to pause. And I was like, if I don't do this now, I don't know if I'm going to do it later. And so that's really what kind of, like, scared me a little bit almost into really taking the time and pausing.
Nick Bennett [00:11:28]:
So well, I think we all habitually just feel this, like, falling forward thing that you're describing. And instead of intentionally being like, what is the next move? It's just you kind of fall into the next thing. The story you're sharing about your neighbor hits pretty hard because, like, I have a two year old and my wife is going to give birth to our second any day now. And it's like, to think about my life in that. Like, it puts your whole world into perspective and you're, and you start questioning, like, your own mortality and you're like, does any of this matter at all? Like, am I doing the things that are truly fulfilling me in my work and that allows me to live my life?
Ryan Baum [00:12:17]:
Yeah, no, I mean, that's totally true. And I think one of the things that gets talked about sometimes is, like, this idea of live each day like it's your last. And people will like, subscribe to that, but they don't actually. Cause, like, I would have said that I was trying to live for today and not for the future, but if I had, I don't know, gotten nailed by a bus in Brooklyn the day after I left Gorgias, I'd be pissed. I'm like, so I spent the best years of my life working 60 hours weeks for these tech companies. That's not how I would have wanted to go out. And I was like, in my head, well, I'll get to the point where I can rest or do more. And this is the path to that.
Ryan Baum [00:12:59]:
And there is something to that grinding in your twenties to build the life that you want. I definitely wouldn't be able to do this consulting thing to the same degree without my time at Gorgias. But I don't know. No day is promised. And I just realized how much I was banking on future, like, you know, investment, compound investment. And also, like, I've also noticed people who say what I said and then they're looking at BP and then they're looking at CMO. And there's always the goalposts move really quickly. And so, you know, there's a study I was looking at that people, on average, when you ask them how much they want to make compared to what they usually make, it's like three x always.
Ryan Baum [00:13:40]:
If you make 30k, you want 90k. If you make 100k, you want 300k, you can have someone making a million dollars a year. Like, if I had 3 million, I'd be set. And it's just like, it's never enough. And so I think it is kind of like a chicken and an egg situation where you have to be like, this is enough before you feel like it is. And I think what I did in October is kind of like a leap of faith to stay in this moment that's paying off now. But what's stressing me out is, like, I have friends, I have colleagues, I have professional homies that don't have the privileged to just, like, leave their job and figure this out. But even with all this time, it still took a long time.
Ryan Baum [00:14:20]:
I definitely would not have been able to do it on the schedule I was keeping before. And, like, I've lost 20 pounds. I'm healthier than I've ever been. And that's not even with dieting. That's literally just like, I'm not drinking, I'm sleeping like, 8 hours a night instead of four, and I'm not eating every meal out at, like, a halal stand because I have, like, no time to do anything. Right.
Nick Bennett [00:14:39]:
Yeah. You're not stressed to death. Yeah.
Ryan Baum [00:14:41]:
And it becomes like a virtuous flywheel. Right. Because the better I feel, the more I want to work on my health, which makes all of these things better. I think better. I think more clearly, and I feel like because I've had this period to really reflect and think about what I want, who I am, I have way better, in my opinion, consulting ideas and offers. I want to test and just, like, a better mindset about building this business altogether than I would have in November. I promise you, if I had done this in November and really just leaned into the business and forgotten about all the stuff I did in the middle, I probably would have just done what I did in house, but fractionally, I would have taken on too much work. It would have been low leverage.
Ryan Baum [00:15:22]:
I would have been unhappy. It's just like, and maybe I still will be on that check back in three months, but I feel like I'm in a better place to make these decisions now with a little bit more space and grace.
Nick Bennett [00:15:32]:
Yeah. You've given yourself the ability to calibrate the compass. So you've had a few false starts, or I don't even know if we call them false starts, but you've made some progress. Kind of hit pause or whatever analogy you want to use in terms of speeding up and slowing down what were some of those things hurdles that you were trying to clear as it relates to? Just like, what were you trying to clear up in general, really? And what were you trying to figure out? And I know you said you took on a few different consulting clients along the way, and I'm sure I know, I mean, you've shared this with me independently, is like, you're like, yeah, I took on some work, learned I didn't like to do this or that thing. Like, how are you going through that process? Cause I think some people tell themselves that it's automatically crystal clear and it's automatically perfect and it's just not.
Ryan Baum [00:16:16]:
Yeah. I think something that I learned on the life side that has translated really well to the business side is this idea of being honest with ourself about what we actually want. Right. Because, I don't know, there's a lot tied up in this. I'll try to unravel it. I think wanting in general in some cases is kind of like in a weird spot. People don't want to admit that they want certain things or it feels insecure to say they want certain things. Maybe they want to do a thing that is not as financially rewarding as what they're doing now, and they're worried about the golden handcuffs coming off and what that will feel like or.
Ryan Baum [00:16:56]:
My example was my career up until leaving Gorgias was like leading in house content programs, especially at Gorgias, very heavy SEO focus, very much the classic content marketing framework, and we got results. And I was really good at what I did. But a, I don't have the same resources as a consultant that I'd had in house to get dashboards pulled and to have editors look at things. And so in terms of scope and things like that, that was something I had to consider. And also just, I don't love that type of work, at least the way I was doing it. Where you're on the content treadmill is a strong word. I think we did a better job with my team at Gorgias, making it more intentional and repurposing content and refreshing and all these things. But still, at the end of the day, volume is a big part of that play.
Ryan Baum [00:17:43]:
And I just realized there's a reason I was always super quality focused in house. It's like something that is important to me. I want to feel like the work I'm putting out feels good to me to put out, but also is like, useful in providing value to my clients and their readers. And so I just feel like it took too long for me to be able to admit to myself, like, maybe I don't want to do fractional content leadership as my offer. And I think honestly a big part of it was because that's what I knew how to do. And I already felt like imposter syndrome, going out on my own and consulting for the first time, that I felt like I couldn't change two variables at once by also shifting what I offered. And I've definitely changed my mind on that and have seeing how much people want other things from me also when I do these like, disco calls.
Nick Bennett [00:18:40]:
So you've taken a few rounds at what it is that you want to build. So what are some of the things that you've done that you've learned that you've kind of decided or that has guided your decision in terms of, like, what's coming next?
Ryan Baum [00:18:56]:
The first thing is I've had a lot of conversations, right? One of the reasons why I have the network I do is because I'm always yapping, I'm always talking to someone, and I really, really enjoyed just chopping it up with different content marketers, marketers in general, people who aren't in marketing, just like learning from them, talking about how we approach different things. And I have seen, I feel like a lot of opportunities that are still relatively untapped, where I see a lot of different content programs struggling with it, not because they don't know how to do it, but because they don't have time or they can't sell it in. So that's been interesting. And then I want to be less on the execution and the writing side for blog content. If I'm working with programs that are focusing on blog content, I think I'm more useful to provide operations sops, helping them build a framework around what they're doing. But I'm realizing I want to write more, actually, just nothing. 2000 word SEO blogs and so I've actually been taking on more ghostwriting clients for LinkedIn and realized in that process, which I would have never guessed would have been something that I would focus on. But what I realized is I kind of agonize over every word or every sentence of a blog, and you can't do that when it's at that length, but you can do that for a LinkedIn post that is like seven paragraphs long.
Ryan Baum [00:20:26]:
It's kind of the difference between copywriting and content. And so it's interesting because, like, copywriting would have felt like a big jump from what I did, even though it's still writing and like very much within my realm of ability. But with LinkedIn, there's also still this element of content and content strategy and what all the posts do together as part of a larger body of work that you're putting out into the feed and the comments you leave and all these things. And so it's super interesting and it's just, I don't think I would have even considered it if not for all of these conversations. And also just like a lot of pitches that were not about LinkedIn content where I got on the phone with people and they became about LinkedIn content really quickly. So it's just interesting to see kind of the shift.
Nick Bennett [00:21:14]:
Yeah. I also have sensed this shift in year demeanor, discussing like blog content and discussing the LinkedIn ghostwriting content, like the level of like passion that you're putting off, just talking about creating a body of work in this way and contributing to that. It's, you could tell. I sense the difference in the way that you're talking about it.
Ryan Baum [00:21:39]:
Yeah. And I actually want to write long form. The thing is funny is like, I don't want to take on a fractional head of content role doing blog content right now. At least right now, maybe later I'll have a different mindset. But I actually want to find some topics that I want to explore for blogs, like, I don't know, Zapier and pitch it to them and write it on something that I'm already doing research on that I'm already interested about, you know what I mean? And so I think what I realized is, like, writing is actually something that's more sacred to me than I realized. And so I want to do more of it, but I don't want to feel like I'm just on an assembly line with it because I think, and that's, and also like, I've been doing a lot of experiments with AI. I see a lot of opportunity for content teams to leverage AI, and none of them involves writing with it. And so, you know, it's interesting to see all these people try to shove AI into that box because I guess, I don't know, it's like large language, model language is in there.
Ryan Baum [00:22:38]:
What if we wrote with it? But like, to me, the whole value proposition of content at its core, obviously this is not how all people do it, but done right. Content is about sharing something with the reader that they don't know that you know, and doing it in a way that's relevant to your business so that if you get them interested and you hook them, they're in the right place to like, learn more about what you do. That's the entire point, right? Even going back to like, Seth Godin, like permission marketing, way back in like the early two thousands, like, that's the idea. It's like inbound. You actually have to give them something that makes them want to come in. Right. And yeah, I just feel like AI is the antithesis of that. It has no experience, it has no personality, and it has no ability to communicate those ideas.
Ryan Baum [00:23:25]:
Now, I've seen plenty of good writing from AI, to be clear. I think when people talk about the tone or the syntax, AI is already a good editor, copy editor, and already can make good copy happen. It has nothing to say. It's like a kiddie pool in terms of depth. It can look real shiny, can be a perfectly. But it's only so deep.
Nick Bennett [00:23:49]:
I think the AI content situation right now is very much just the most obvious application of the, of the technology. Just because it's obvious doesn't mean it is like the point. Like, there are a lot of non obvious implementations of utilizing a tool like Claude or chat, GPT or whatever thing you want, whatever you want to use that is way more impactful. And you're not the first person I've heard talk about trying to really crack that nut, because whoever really figures it out, I think is going to be. I mean, I think there's going to be a lot of people to figure it out, but I think trying to push in that direction to utilize AI as more of an, as like an efficiency and not to just like, take away the creative part of the process, trying to automate away your existence and saying, like, how can AI write? This for me is, I think, kind of the opposite of what people want. Like, people want to read interesting things short or long. They want things that, like, feel like they can, that connects with them. I mean, and it's why, I guess, this ramble is going.
Nick Bennett [00:25:04]:
It's like we're so over rotated on volume at this point in life that we don't need more, we need different. And AI has made it increasingly easier to just pump garbage into the Internet. And so at this point, I don't need to pump garbage into the Internet. It's not like ten times a day. It's like, can you publish one high impact piece of content every couple of weeks? I saw a post you put out recently, and you named Andy Crestedina as one of the people that a great content marketer, Andy. I have been citing Andy's work back even when I was an in house marketing director to the team of marketers. That I was working with, because Andy is the perfect example of dropping a blog every couple of weeks. And it is a just a nuke.
Nick Bennett [00:25:55]:
This thing is deep, it is thorough, it is exactly what you want. It's like, I will hang on every word, and it's not even like it's completely jam packed with personality. It's just, it rocks, and it's not transactional. There's something about the way that he's constructing content, and that is exactly what I think the world needs more of in that vein. So I could talk about this all day.
Ryan Baum [00:26:25]:
Yeah, me too. I'm a big fan of him and the team at Orbit Media. I think, like, the thing about, and the other thing about Andy that's interesting is, like, he's been, been doing this like, he's been. And so a blog every three weeks doesn't sound impressive until you have 15 years of them, and then all of a sudden, you've got a lot of material to pull from. And so that's actually, like, what I'm really focused on tinkering with right now is kind of like this theory of content that I do where it's like, I'm calling it, like, content community garden right now is, like, what the working name is, and it was just content garden. And now I'm feeling like the more I read and the more I look into it, like, there used to be, like, a relationship element of it, maybe, because, to your point, I've seen how important that can be in developing anything by building my own network. But there's something to be said about what he calls an elbow like lifetime body of work, which is the acronym he uses. And, yeah, you only have to put content out at a much lower cadence when you have all these bangers in the archive that you can refresh and bring out with the content community garden model.
Ryan Baum [00:27:36]:
And again, this is, I'm building in public, like, very, don't hold me to this, even next week. But the way I'm thinking about it right now is like, those are the three pillars, right? You've got content, you've got relationships, and you've got the garden, which kind of brings it all together, right? And so when we have conversations about content mileage, when we have conversations about content repurposing, when we have content distribution conversations, people like Justin Simon and Ross Simmons, those are all facets of what I would call this, like, garden. And it's the idea of having a content program and a library where you know the boundaries and you know what's in it. I talk to too many content leaders who have no idea what half of the pages on their site have on them. And I find it really hard to believe that those pages are providing value if they don't even know that they're there. Not even to get into Google Crawl budget and just the attention span of readers on the site. You can't maintain the same level of quality and resonance when you're doing that amount of volume. And of course, SEO has rewarded that for a long time.
Ryan Baum [00:28:49]:
I get it. But to your point about resonance, I think it reminds me of Jay Ocunzos quote of like, don't be the best, be their favorite, right? And I think that's actually one of the most important one liners that we can think of when we're talking about AI content, because there's a lot of people that are doing that are in a race right now to make the best AI content and make the best lead gen pipeline, whatever with content. You will never make someone's favorite content with AI. Not at least with an AI, like one button press workflow, you know what I mean? And so, yeah, I guess it just depends on what you want to focus on. But to your point, we see this with like spark turo. It's like the modern example of dropping a banger a month and everyone talks about it and shares it. Before that, it was like animals. Like the only appointment viewing and B two B sass when Jimmy was pumping them out, people would be sharing them in slack and talking about it.
Ryan Baum [00:29:52]:
I'd even have to actually, I think animals is one of the first during that period. I think animals is one of the first business blogs where I found out about most of their new content before I even got it in my feed from other people sharing it with me or talking about it or asking what I thought about it.
Nick Bennett [00:30:08]:
That lifetime body of work lens is massively powerful when you're thinking about trying to like this over years and decades versus days and weeks. Like you said, Andy Rand, all these people are dropping bangers and it is worth consuming. I'm a huge fan of Jay's work, too. I'm part of his creator kitchen. I just had Melanie Diesel on the show recently as well. Like huge, hugely influenced by, by that line of thinking. But. So let's kind of move forward a little bit on where you're from, where we are talking about what you're doing to where you were, to where you are right now, what are you building right now and what are you working towards right now, especially as it relates to your offer and just kind of, how are you thinking about your next moves?
Ryan Baum [00:31:00]:
It's a good question. Other people, who would like the answer to this question? My mother, some of my best friends in Brooklyn. I feel like sometimes I almost want to send this bod to people because I'm just like, I have a lot of people being like, yeah, you're good, right?
Nick Bennett [00:31:17]:
Like, should we sort of gofundme for you?
Ryan Baum [00:31:20]:
Yes, you should. Because no matter how good the consulting does, I would never be mad about that. But, yeah, honestly, I think, like, the, I'm just trying to give myself space to be a nerd, honestly, right now, because the clients I'm working with, I'm doing a lot of LinkedIn ghostwriting strategy, things that are pretty easy to me. And in some cases, I'm even subcontracting under smart friends who are consultants, and they're just briefing me and I'm giving it back, and it's amazing. I'm loving it. I'm having a great time. And so what that's doing is it's opening up some of the mental bandwidth to go deep on these kind of conceptual or tinker projects. Because a lot of the things I'm really interested in, I look around and I don't see, I, like, have an idea.
Ryan Baum [00:32:07]:
I don't see people doing it. And I wonder to myself, am I the genius who's ahead of the curve, or am I the idiot who's missing what everyone else is seeing and I'm not? And of course, you know, because it's an internal dialogue, I usually shift to the latter. And I'm like, no, I definitely am. I'm missing something. There's a reason people don't do this. And, you know, I've talked to some of these ideas about, I've talked about some of these ideas through with people that I really respect, including people like Ronnie Higgins, Tommy Walker, who are also very conceptual and like, these, like, weighty approaches to content. And I'm getting a lot of feedback, like, no, this is actually a smart idea and you should pursue it and, like, explore it. Like, I don't know if it's going to be something, but it might.
Ryan Baum [00:32:49]:
And I think, honestly, a lot of it is. Just like, we move so fast in tech, and there's this, like, idea of building the plane in the sky while it flies, which I hate that phrase. I want to write something about it because I used to get in fights with people at Gorgias when they used it. I got in the habit at the end of being like, would you put your kid on that plane? Doesn't feel like a safe plane to me. And I think that the model is more like, yeah, see, this is why I'm a problem in house. But I think the model is like if we want to, if we want to use the analogy, right, of building the plane in the sky. It's not building a Boeing 747 piece by piece at 10,000ft. That sounds incredibly dumb.
Ryan Baum [00:33:28]:
It is building the Wright brothers version of the airplane, which flies and is just basic, and then building whatever came after that and working your way iteratively to the Boeing 747. And maybe that's what those people are trying to say when they say build the plane in the sky. That's not what I'm seeing happen. I'm seeing a lot of dumb things happen really quickly because people won't take a, an hour to think about how to do something correctly. And so they waste an hour a week for eight weeks until they finally fix the thing. You know what I mean? And so it's just like, I understand there's a lot of pressure from VC's who want results now, and that trickles down through exec boards for the CEO to the marketing leader. But yeah, it's just there's not, we're not giving enough time and space to these things that I think are really fixable. Everyone's burnt out and they have no time.
Ryan Baum [00:34:16]:
And so something that I would love to at least build into my consulting offer is being the one with the time to nerd out and do the reading and share what I'm learning because I have the time and space that these people don't. I think that honestly, most problems that content leaders have brought to me and asked for like help or advice they would absolutely be able to solve if I gave them two full working days to do nothing but that. But they don't have that. I even talk to people who are like, I know AI is going to eat my lunch, but that's a next week problem. I'm like, that's what you said three weeks ago. Like, when is it going to be time to figure this out? And so it's not a judgment against the people that are really tired and burnt out on all this stuff. I get it. I was there.
Ryan Baum [00:35:01]:
Like, I totally understand. But there is a part of me that wonders like which of these things can we kind of fix where the solution works for like 90% of content programs stock and we can help people do it better because we're just taking a week to just sit and think about how we get SME in the blogs in a more effective way. Like, that's a project that I'm thinking through right now, something we did really well at Gorgias. And I know zero content marketers who don't want more SME in their pieces. And most of those people would say, yeah, but I don't have the time. Or, yeah, that's a lot of logistics to get that happening.
Nick Bennett [00:35:38]:
You know, I feel like you don't really see the business side of this. Like, you're, like, it feels really ad hoc, but from the outside looking in, it seems like you have built yourself a really great position just in, like, there's a lot of great marketers out there that have clients that need the things that you do. Right. And it seems like the common theme here is that every time someone can't solve a problem, they call you. Right. There's like, there are these specific content problems, and they're like, hmm, know who could help us? Sounds like Ryan. This is something that Ryan can definitely do. So it's like, you know, we've convinced ourselves as solopreneurs that having, like, a fancy website with a, with like, a flashy headline and a.
Nick Bennett [00:36:29]:
A book of Callba and this totally packaged up thing is 100% the only way to build and the only way to grow. And it's just not true because you've been able to build a portfolio around just your reputation and doing different things to get to a place where it seems like your goals are to have a more packaged and codified offer. But I. The absence of that is not the absence of a business either, though.
Ryan Baum [00:37:01]:
Yeah, I think there's, like, a few things that play into that. Like a, I am single, no kids, no debt, and that is a very specific and privileged way to be thinking about your budgeting. Right. Like, I just simply do not need as much money as some consultants do, even living in Brooklyn. And so I think, and I honestly, like, I've been working less than 20 hours a week every week since I left Gorgias. And I'd literally love to continue that because I'm outside at, like, 02:00 p.m. on a bike, and it's really nice. And so with all of that, what I've realized is that there are offers that can be very expensive for 20 hours a week, but then when you need to fill 40 hours a week or when you want to scale it to multiple people, it falls apart.
Ryan Baum [00:37:47]:
And those are the offers I'm interested in, because I'm like, yeah, you all ignore this you go over there and do SEO, this is none of your business. And I also just. I am less concerned about consistent cash flow in any given month, which also allows for things like digital products or other kind of feast or famine cycle paychecks. Right? Like, it doesn't need to be necessarily a product type service where every month I have, like, you know, exactly. I know what I'm going to do. I'm going to do the same thing over and over again. I also honestly just get bored really easily. I think the biggest thing that I've struggled with kind of building an offer that I really want to do is not the website and the polish and the flash, and it's more that all of the solopreneur and entrepreneurial advice is like, do something that is so repeatable that you can do it in your sleep and then get the margins from that and like, really be the best at this thing and the fastest at this thing.
Ryan Baum [00:38:40]:
And I do want part of my business, obviously, to have that kind of like, stability. But I do really light up going after problems I've never faced before and that's not the best for margins. But I'm also really bad at doing things I don't want to do. And if I do want to do it, I'm on a warpath. And I think that a lot of people could say that, but it's to the point where I just won't do it. And I've realized about myself and instead of, I have very bad ADHD. And apparently this is like, I've been digging into it more in the last six months, trying to understand how it affects my work. Anyone who's reading this, who's an ADHD baddie, look up ADHD 2.0.
Ryan Baum [00:39:17]:
It's by the dudes that did the first one, the first book driven to distraction. And it's been huge for me to understand the way my brain works. And I've always thought like, oh, well, my adhd is like a malfunction of my brain. It's like a dumb part of my brain. I hate it. It's annoying, it makes it hard to focus, hard to stay on track. And when you kind of give yourself more grace about how the brain you have works and work with it because you don't actually have a choice, by the way. We can only do so much to change it, it starts becoming a little magical with the opportunities it opens up because when I say, man, I'm ADHD and I can't focus and it's hard for me to manage long term projects.
Ryan Baum [00:39:56]:
And I look at some of the ways that people consult and I'm like, oh man, I'd be a trash consultant. But when I look at ADHD, it's just the way my brain is different. It also brings a lot of creativity, I think laterally in a way that a lot of people don't. And I also just am like a yapper again. And so I had a call that a company paid me to be on a couple weeks ago where they literally just like, no prep, no workshop, paid me for a few hours of my time advising, and it felt truly like I was in my zone of genius because it is hard for me to compete with people over these really long time horizons. And that was like an issue when I was in house that I had to struggle with of keeping all of these different threads and projects going all at once. But if you get me in a room or on a zoom call, I am very fast in that space and I can be way more competitive against anyone because I have done the nerdy content reading and I have it all saved and I'm ready to pull it out and use a framework and do the thing. Not only is it doing this repositioning of what are you in the top 1% of that, they ask consultants to do, like understanding your zone of genius, but it's also just like being honest about what I can and can't do and building an offer that is situated for my brain instead of trying to like, run uphill.
Ryan Baum [00:41:15]:
Like business is already hard enough. Doing your own business without setting yourself up for failure.
Nick Bennett [00:41:20]:
Yeah, I mean, well, first of all, as someone else who has with ADHD, I will tell you, I used to think of it as a handicap and it took me a while. I'm going to check out this book, but it took me a while to realize that is actually my superpower and it is most certainly the thing that makes me different in the best possible way and allows me to adapt and just kind of move quickly in a way that other people don't. And it took me a bit to come to that conclusion on all this work, but you were talking about building an offer and stuff that's highly productized, that's super repeatable. I think that's a component of it. And I'm a huge advocate of doing those things because it simplifies your life and it just depends on where you're at in your life in terms of the type of work that you want to take on. Now, one of the things that I think is really interesting is you're like, I really like these abstract problems. The trouble that I have found with trying to go out into the world to solve abstract problems for people is that it's really hard to generate business without solving a particular problem. Like, the problem of abstract problems is really difficult, is really abstract.
Nick Bennett [00:42:32]:
And so it's hard to market that, it's hard to sell that, it's hard to service that. When you solve a really particular problem, it kind of backs you into programmatically building a program that accounts for that or that solves for that, and you end up getting really, really good at it. So I don't necessarily think it's productized to productize to just like work five minutes a day and then go hang out on a beach, but it's more, so get really, really good at solving a particular problem. So if there's a really abstract problem that shows up in a business, the same type of way that you can solve, I think that positions you really, really well. Like, if there's a really abstract content operations problem, you kind of get all of the things you need and you have systems in place that allow you to solve it for people and create. Like, this is the final hurdle that's really difficult for people to clear, which is solving the problem and making it, like, massively valuable. Right. You need to generate impact or make a massive impact inside of someone's business that generates an exponential outcome for them.
Nick Bennett [00:43:37]:
And in order to get there, it's hard to kind of click all these puzzle pieces into place. And I think the bigger picture is just like, find a problem you're super passionate about solving. And with that, the rest of the pieces will slowly start to take shape and then fall into place. Because without that problem you give a shit about, it's going to be tough to get out of bed and put your feet on the floor every morning.
Ryan Baum [00:44:01]:
Yeah, exactly. And that, that's where I really feel like in the past couple weeks, I've started to feel more clarity around what needs to happen in my consulting journey. Because kind of the conclusion, honestly, that I've come to, from talking to like, you know, 100 consultants, content leaders, whatever, over the past six months, is that the real problem that I think a lot of content marketers are facing is their boss. They know what to do. They know how to get the work done, and they're either having trouble selling it in or getting the resources or protecting their team's time from like, dumb requests from sales team and other places. And I, but to your point, and like, that's something that I do feel like I can help a lot of content leaders solve. And I started my coaching certification and I may do more coaching in the future. And I've done like informal calls with friends and they said it's been really helpful.
Ryan Baum [00:44:54]:
But like, to your point, that's a really difficult service to sell in. It's like a very soft skill as a service. No one wants to buy that. Certainly not the VP who you're trying to like.
Nick Bennett [00:45:05]:
You want thousands of dollars, right?
Ryan Baum [00:45:07]:
And so I realized this is kind of the blocker, right? And then I was like, okay, well then what is like not even the Trojan horse? Because it's not a Trojan horse. It's just like, what is the entry point, right. To start having these conversations? And I think that something that is an entry point for this, that also feels very tangible but still brings a lot of these like abstract skills and things that I have to the table is like content operations, right? That's something that at every single point in my career, when I show stuff that I'm doing at my company or wherever, to other content leaders, that's the thing that they always bring up the most, right? It's like strategy and content operations. And to me they're like two sides of the same coin. And I did a post about this a week ago about how strategy is trying to make sure that your outcomes, that you are like your intended outcomes are happening and that what you're producing is not at odds with what you were saying you wanted upfront. And I think that you can't separate execution from that. Strategy needs to be execution first in mind and execution needs to keep the strategy in mind at every stage of that process. Something like content operations can be as simple as just making the Asana template for you that you work through and helping you implement it and the change management stuff that comes with that.
Ryan Baum [00:46:26]:
But then you can start having conversations about like, okay, well, we have to integrate a request form into this system. Well, how do you feel like you're dealing with requests right now? And most people would be like, I do way too many and I don't want to. I'm like, okay, well, like, let's talk about why that is. And so I think it opens up some of these opportunities. And then to your point, once you start kind of like honing in on that, I think the next stage is understanding. Like what is the, if I want to conquer a more conceptual problem, people have to be able to wrap their mind around it. It has to feel tangible. And so that's when I started thinking about this content community garden model, because content ops, basically the idea of the whole thing is getting, for lack of a better word, and I don't even want to say this even as a joke, but do more with less.
Ryan Baum [00:47:16]:
We're not going to stop hearing that as marketers, right? We're not. It's just not going to happen. Money is not free anymore. People are feeling it tightening. Everyone is feeling the pressure. So it's just like it's going to happen. And so instead of like just being upset about that, what if we actually thought about how to do more with less? And I think a lot of that is smartly reusing content, understanding the cadences that you can repost old content, understand what's working and what's not, so you can do more of the right things and less of the wrong things. And so like, I think that what I want to start testing just to be fully transparent and in public about it is I want to start testing LinkedIn posts and things from my account about content operations, developing this content community garden model, talking about how I think content should be repurposed and just in general, how you can build the systems that are in your program and around your program to be able to get work done efficiently.
Ryan Baum [00:48:12]:
And that might be AI in some cases, it might be automation in others. But the goal is not like if you have 8 hours to write a blog and you would have spent 4 hours interviewing, getting the research, compiling it, writing the brief, all of that, and 4 hours writing like, I want to do that first part in 30 minutes and then give you 7 hours to write a banger piece, right. And I don't see people talking about AI in terms of like, we can make this, we can make our work better with this. It's always faster. And a, I think people think it's too good to be true. B, you're literally telling content people to adopt a service that you're explaining is going to replace them, right? Because like, doing better work, content leaders still in the room doing faster work, replacing human writers now you're getting right at the core of their Maslow's, you know, pyramid. Like, they're not going to be happy to hear that. And I think that's why there's been a lot of like stopping and starting on AI.
Nick Bennett [00:49:07]:
One of the people from the marketing AI Institute, Kathy joined. I'm totally butchering this. Kathy from the marketing AI Institute I joined a call that she was hosting recently, and one of the things that she said that really struck me was like, the whole point of AI is to not create space in your life and fill it with work. It's to create space in your life and go outside.
Ryan Baum [00:49:29]:
Yeah, but that was also the promise of several other, like the industrial revolution and all these other, like, that's the problem. And not, not to get like full happy hour Ryan on everyone on the pod, but like, capitalism will find new work for us to fill that void. And like, at the end of the day, like you, AI will not be the thing that creates that time if we are just filling it with other.
Nick Bennett [00:49:48]:
But the point, the point is to create the space and then like, be intentional with what, how you feel it. So, I mean, let's, let's end here. It's clear that you give a shit about this work and what you're trying to build here. My question for you is, why is this meaningful to you?
Ryan Baum [00:50:08]:
Hmm. Well, I have gotten a lot of advice to go broader than content, that there's not money in content consulting, that content leaders don't have enough budget or have the budget at all, or the decision making power to use it. And that's definitely true in a lot of cases. A lot of times you have to go through the BP. But I just am so in love with the broader content community. The people are so smart, so nice, so creative. I was in PR before. I would not have spoken so highly of my industry peers in that space.
Ryan Baum [00:50:46]:
I keep coming back to content leaders and wanting to build something, work for them and with them, because these are people I want to be spending time with and doing work with and even like outside of a workplace context. I love hosting content meetups and I do in New York for different businesses. I've done one for audience, plus they went for like animals, superpath. It's so fun to get all these people in a room because even if they don't talk about content at all, they are so curious and have such great conversations. So like, to me, it's not that I think that doing content marketing better is like changing the world, but it is making a difference to people that I care about and also more people who are like the type of person that I care about. The other thing I'll say is content marketing is almost like its own little cmo.org in the broader marketing organization because you're doing so many different things. And I think part of the thing that burns content marketers out is we're expected to know how to make the words good, make the value good, the operations to run the editorial process, how to correspond with all these other marketing teams that want to use our content. So you have to understand lead gen, understand product marketing.
Ryan Baum [00:51:55]:
I've written for all of those teams before, even salespeople in the past. There's just like, and you get into like communication theory and like, you know, content design, there's like 15 different, you know, even on like an easy day, 15 different like, disciplines that you're running around doing. And I don't think content leaders have the capacity to like, go as deep on those as they want, and that's what makes them feel tired. All this to say, like, I am really, I think that if we can figure out certain things in content, it also applies to creators, also applies to how we message and communicate in general. Like, content is a very, one of the things that made me feel comfortable going back to content again for the job at Gorgias was like, even if I do this for a year and decide content's not for me, what am I going to be? Madden that I learned how to communicate even better and share ideas even more effectively and make people sound smart, that's not ever going to be in short supply. And so when I think about, I've gotten multiple times in the past few months, someone say, wow, you're thinking about AI or content in a way that's different than other people I'm talking to. Why do you think that's where the puck is going? Why are you skating there? And my response is like, I don't even know if that's where the puck is going, but that's where I want it to go. So I'm skating there because if it doesn't, I'm probably going to do something else.
Ryan Baum [00:53:13]:
Marketing already is kind of like something that I don't always feel amazing about doing and just like getting people to part with their money and some of the copywriting frameworks that are the most effective are about making people feel less than and they don't have what they need. And if I'm not able to do it my way, I don't know, I'll figure out a new career. But that does make it easier on me to kind of do it my way because it's the only option I feel like I have. I don't feel like I can do marketing in a world where we're all just managing robots and trying to shave another 1% off of the spend for the paid ads. I want to do marketing that feels like it matters.
Nick Bennett [00:53:54]:
A common theme among everyone that I speak with on this show and just in general, is their whole goal here, with everything they're trying to do is impact. And it gives me so much hope for humanity is like, everyone here is so passionate about trying to make things or trying to leave this place better than they found it. Especially, like, I talk with a lot of marketers and sales people because that's just the world that I know. And that's like, where I've spent my career, and everyone sees a lot of the same problems with the way things are, and they're working really hard to, to make a difference and impact as many people as possible in the best way possible. And so your ambitions are very much in line with a lot of, with everyone else's. And I share this with you because there's hope. I guess it feels so frustrating at times, but there is hope. Everyone is trying really, really hard.
Nick Bennett [00:55:01]:
And sometimes I feel like it feels really lonely when you feel like you're the only person pushing for this and it makes you feel really good to have these types of conversations with people who just, like, give a damn about giving a damn.
Ryan Baum [00:55:16]:
Yeah, absolutely. I think almost everyone I talk to, even if it's in a small way within their team, their company, is trying to, like, they see things they don't like in content marketing, tech marketing, tech in general, and they want to do something about it. I fundamentally believe that the people I talk to almost always are in that camp. How much they can do depends obviously on their emotional energy. And just like, everyone's exhausted. There's been a lot of talk about the general malaise in marketing, and especially content marketing right now. I was at golden hour a few months ago, that audience plus hosted in Brooklyn. The vibe, not only on stage, but in the breakouts and lunches and stuff, is like, man, shit's not really good right now, is it? Like, and everyone's really feeling that it's weird.
Ryan Baum [00:56:04]:
And the vibes are bad. The vibes are rancid. And tech content marketing right now to the point where, like, I've actually been setting up more, like, when I'm setting people up to chat with each other, like, people on my network that I think need to talk, it's less about, like, hey, you're doing this middle funnel program. They did it really well, which is what it would have been before. And it's more like, I think you need someone who's going to brighten your day. So I'm going to like, you know, make this connection. And I think both of you will benefit from having this chat. Honestly, though, I think it's just like marketers in general, but content marketers specifically are hopeful, are dreamers, I think, as, like, artist, false setting, and there's not a lot of hope and dreams right now.
Ryan Baum [00:56:42]:
Like, things are tightening. People are feeling like their work isn't valued. AI is kind of just like, gestures wildly on the horizon. And no one, I think, including Sam Altman, knows exactly what that's going to look like in like, three or four years. Vibes are weird, and I think anything that makes us feel like we don't have the security that we crave and everyone craves it, and it's like, at the root of all of our saboteurs and biases and the fog that makes it hard to see clearly what you need to do next. It's like, am I going to be able to feed my family? Am I going to be able to provide value to the companies I work for? Is my job even going to exist in three years? Like, it's. When you're asking questions like that, it's hard to be stoked about writing a.
Nick Bennett [00:57:25]:
SEO blog about, like, CRMs for, like, pool companies.
Ryan Baum [00:57:29]:
Yeah. You know, well, that is really the perfect topic because you're so, you're so right about that. That is exactly what it is.
Nick Bennett [00:57:34]:
Yeah. It's like, it really sucks the life out of you sometimes. But just to be clear, there's nothing wrong with writing those blogs and doing that job. Like, it's a, it's a noble job and it's a noble freshman. Someone has to, like, people have to do that work because people do need to know that information, but it just takes a different shape. So I just, like, want to be clear. Sometimes I feel like I come off like the person who has that job, who used to be like, I used to have that job and then who used to have that job? And it's like, it's not. There's nothing wrong with it.
Nick Bennett [00:58:03]:
It's just like, at some point, there's more to life than writing that blog. Like, I had Jed Marley on a few weeks ago, and he was like, he's like, yeah. I just felt like I was stuck in this loop of, like, creating sales content and trying to sell sales tech to sales companies and stuff. And so it is just like, it gets a little weird.
Ryan Baum [00:58:23]:
Yeah. What I will say, though, is, like, I. That's not really the lens that I personally come at it from, when I'm like, oh, man, SEO. Because, like, at Gorgias, we really, I mean, like, my team, I had Jordan and Alexa as editors. Daryl was our video editor, Christelle was our writer. And basically, like, we made really, really good SEO content that was very valuable. The problem with SEO for me is this is like this endless treadmill, and the people that want it done never have the patience to resource it and see it through. And so even when people are making good SEO content that they can feel good about and that the reader will benefit from, that is making the Internet a better place.
Ryan Baum [00:59:05]:
They're getting yelled at because it's not happening fast enough that we can't predict exactly how Google is going to, like, you know, index that content or, like, get. Getting compared to, like, a paid ad program that has ten x to spend that we do like. Yeah, ten x my budget and I'll bring you the leads they're bringing. Let's do it. You know what I mean? And of course, they never want to have that conversation, but I think that's it. More than the actual writing of SEO content, I actually think SEO is in, like, a more interesting place right now than it has been in a long time, and I'm excited to see where it goes next. I also just don't want to be the one selling that program to vps and cmos that have, like, a three week time horizon for when it needs to, you know, hit.
Nick Bennett [00:59:42]:
I feel you there, man. Ryan, it's been a blast, dude, thanks for coming on and chatting with me, dude. It's, like, so good to catch up with you. It's been way too long and thanks for sharing your story, dude. I know, I know. Way more people feel seen because of it.
Ryan Baum [00:59:57]:
Yeah. And I appreciate you creating the space because, like, when you messaged me about coming on, my response was basically like, oh, I don't have any wins or knowledge to share with these people. And you were like, good, book it. And I think, like, I'm happy to be vulnerable about my journey because I want more people to talk about this. And again, like, feel like they're not alone. But also, it's on people like you with platforms to provide that space and be like, no, I want the mess and the false starts and everything that comes in the middle because that is, like, such a key part of it.
Nick Bennett [01:00:29]:
It's just the reality of it.
Ryan Baum [01:00:30]:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, it's been great. I really enjoyed catching up, you know, good luck in the next few weeks as baby number two comes. I hope everything is, you know, healthy and easy and happy as it can be and that the kid is a sleeper this time.
Nick Bennett [01:00:44]:
Thanks, brother. I appreciate it, man. I'll talk to you soon.
Ryan Baum [01:00:46]:
All right. I'll talk to you later, man.
Nick Bennett [01:00:53]:
Hey, Nick, again, and thanks for listening. If you've enjoyed this episode, you can sign up for the 1000 Routes newsletter, where I process the insights and stories you hear on this show into frameworks and lessons to help you build a new and different future for your own business. You can sign up at 1000routes.com or check the link in the show notes. We're going to ask you the hardest question I'm going to ask you all day. That is, what would be your last meal on earth?
Ryan Baum [01:01:25]:
The first thing that comes to mind is I love. I love burgers. I, like, get them all over New York City. I'm always on a quest to find, like, the best burger. Realistically, my final meal, if I could just, like, have full control over it, would be to have, like, a table full of, like, basically tapas and, like, small plates where I could try a bunch of different things that are really good and, like, share that with, like, a group of loved ones that I don't really care so much about what the food is.
Nick Bennett [01:01:51]:
Ooh, I like that. Tapas. Like, just. I want, like, 200 plates on the table.
Ryan Baum [01:01:57]:
Yeah. And while we're at it, like, we're in Barcelona. Like, let's just do it in Barcelona.
Nick Bennett [01:02:01]:
It's crazy you said this because there is a restaurant in West Hartford, Connecticut, not too far from my house, called Barcelona that is all tapas. And it's like, you show up and you order, like, 50 small plates, and I'm like, as you were saying this, this is the dining experience that I had in my mind.
Ryan Baum [01:02:17]:
It's like a very spanish way of eating.
Nick Bennett [01:02:20]:
It's a very delicious way of eating.
Ryan Baum [01:02:22]:
Yeah.