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For so many modern, driven women, life is about being more than one thing. We’re multidimensional—and so are our conversations. We carry multiple identities; we can be both mother and artist; both attorney and entrepreneur. Both clinician and CEO. Both humble and proud. Life for women like us is about both. About…all of the above. It’s about the “and”...
00:00.00
heymarvelous
This is the And She Spoke podcast and in today's episode we are discussing the collapse of the sixteenth largest bank in America.
00:09.17
sandy
That would be Silicon Valley bank and what do we bank with Jeni.
00:15.61
heymarvelous
Ah, spoiler alert Silicon Valley bank not anymore
00:19.16
sandy
Ah, oh my god okay, who breathe out breathe out and that we survive the last four days so if you haven't heard Silicon Valley bank
00:26.90
heymarvelous
Um, just have a moment of peace for the bank that failed.
00:32.69
heymarvelous
Oh yeah.
00:38.54
sandy
Ah, collapsed on Friday it is the bank that we we ah have been using for the last 7 eight years and so let's start Jeni do you want to start with me running through the facts as we understand it and then go from there.
00:50.92
heymarvelous
Yeah, let's start with the with the black and white facts.
00:59.43
sandy
Um, ok so Friday the ah svb collapsed at it is the second biggest bank failure in the history of the world. Apparently so the way that it happened was last Wednesday March Eighth Silicon Valley announces that it needs to raise funds. The Ceo um wrote a ah press release and announced that it needed to raise funds and it tried to liquidate $21000000000 worth of investment in an emergency sale Thursday customers got a little freaked out. And they attempted to withdraw $42000000000 which is a quarter of the bank's total deposits in one day. So by the end of day Silicon Valley was in a negative cash balance of $1000000000 in the stocks. Ah, tanked by 60% that day and then Friday March tenth the trading is halted because when the shares when they open those stock markets open again. The stocks fell another 60% the fd I see which is the federal deposit insurance corporation shuts down the bank. And took possession of the bank and all of its deposits done. It's over 48 hours that the sixteenth largest bank is over.
02:22.50
heymarvelous
Yeah, and it's not just the sixteenth largest bank. It is like the center of the world for startups. So.
02:29.72
sandy
Course? yeah yeah I think whole there's so much to say here. Um I know way more than about the american banking system than I ever chose to when I certainly know more than the canadian banking system. At this point. It's just been a wild ride. So Jenny how did you find out about it.
02:47.45
heymarvelous
Okay, so I found out about it like kind of simultaneously in 2 places so I received an email from our credit card company alerting us to the fact that this was going on and then also our C O O slacking me on Thursday evening.
03:04.94
sandy
Um, there was a New York's time New York Times article she slacked right? I think.
03:06.69
heymarvelous
And so we are not yeah she selected a New York Times article and then we had um we had gotten an offer from our so we have a startup credit card called Brex and we had gotten an offer from that company to switch everything over to their banking partner like immediately that they would
be there. They would be providing bridge loans. They would be starting a new bank or maybe they had to think but they'd be welcoming all of their customers. Their credit card customers into their bank. Um, and so on Thursday evening I kind of like was sitting in my living room on my laptop and I just like was kind of like looking around thinking. But like this might actually be something and I messaged to you and you were like offline which was like really respectable and then I messaged you a few times and then I was like ok Sandy must not be worried about this like.
04:01.81
heymarvelous
Probably okay but I was going back and forth with our C O O in slack like.
04:04.66
sandy
Because you you were saying like do you think we should panic. Do you think we should move funds out of svb.
04:10.94
heymarvelous
Yeah, and then I went on Twitter and then I really started panicking myself because I was reading about like all of the startups that had already withdrawn money like a lot of startups that are funded by bigger Vc investment houses like had been already told earlier in the day on Thursday to withdraw.
04:28.20
sandy
Yes.
04:30.21
heymarvelous
And so I was like reading all the stories and like a lot of people were saying like Ohs there's no way this is going to be a bank run. This couldn't happen at this scale and then a lot of other people are like well I'm going to get my money out. So I fully intended on Friday to get some money out of our bank. Um.
04:47.20
sandy
Um, yeah.
04:48.66
heymarvelous
And then I had an appointment and like I was leaving my appointment on Friday morning and I I logged into slack and I saw that the bank had already been shut down. You would message me and so it was very this is like a very personal experience for us and I I just want to like pause because.
05:06.45
heymarvelous
It is March and it is now today the day we're recording this is March thirteenth and March thirteenth three years ago to this day was the day that like our walls caved in on us when the pandemic shut everything down and our company exploded literally. Overnight like over day that one day um and nothing has ever been the same and there's you and I both have like a lot of collective trauma about that experience of something very sudden and shocking happening that like was totally outside of our control and affected our lives and our company really dramatically and like.
05:42.59
sandy
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no 100% and I also know that brex and all the svb employees and the fdi I see all the people working behind the scenes.
05:43.14
heymarvelous
This was happening again right? So that was my actual first. It was like a physical reaction to the trauma like that hasn't stopped.
06:00.84
sandy
Experiencing very similar like workloads and stress and worry you know as as many of us did in those early days of the pandemic. Um, yeah, so on Thursday night when all this was going down I had my laptop. In my hands and I put it down and I very intentionally said I'm not going to log in tonight I'm just going to take a break and then then Friday I you know, open it up and I see like you're like Sandy do you need to be on the new bank account if we start one and I was like what. Because I'm in Canada so it's super hard to get bank accounts with both of us and I was like what is she talking about and then I went into our legal channel and with our co o and saw and so immediately picked up Twitter and you are not online. Yeah I know you're in your point.
06:52.59
sandy
Point I have nobody to talk to I am reading all this stuff and I am full on anxiety cannot breathe sitting up in the kitchen at the window like trying to collect myself with flashes of like this could be it. We could lose everything you know and um.
07:11.70
sandy
Even though, like most of you who have been following this story um and two hundred and fifty thousand dollars is insured right? So we're under that threshold so we knew that we have insurance for this deposit. We're probably getting it out but I don't know like how do what How does it when does it happen like who knows there is so much uncertainty. I couldn't like process it all I was just complete anxiety. Um, and I just kept following and then I see on nobody's tiered that you're not there. Just want to talk to and I'm trying to understand all this stuff like I'm reading every single article from Bloomberg Bloomberg's to like. The wall street journal to globe and mail to get everything and then I see a tweet where this guy like takes a screenshot of the recent fdi see page like the live like news bulletin updates and it says as vb has been closed and I'm like reading these words I mean it's been closed like. And and then then Twitter just blows up right? like it. You know that's been shut down and you know it's shuttered and and then you phone me from picking up your daughter and you're like Sandy are you okay and I said no, you're like what's happening I'm like the Fdic just shut the bank down and you were like.
08:28.59
sandy
Shit and so now it's like now what now? What do you do? So we could log into the bank. We could see things but everything that was coming in and outwards pending and um, just no access right? and we know that the following week this week we have payroll.
08:36.37
heymarvelous
Yeah, it was frozen. Yeah.
08:46.31
sandy
We have things coming out of that account. It's frozen like our entire app. Everything depends on paying bills. So that things keep running so we spent the entire day just like going through each payment that's coming out and making sure it went to our credit card and not just have our debit card.
09:03.45
heymarvelous
Yeah, and trying I was like rushing around trying to find a bank that would see me in person in Arizona here on Friday and it was like my daughter was getting out of school early for spring break and we were supposed to like have a spring break day and.
09:07.30
sandy
Right.
09:20.91
heymarvelous
Um, and here I am like trying to run around and try to find a bank and no banks would see me obviously like the world like the banks are collapsing right? like everyone's freaked out so I'm trying to find like 1 of the big 4 banks to get into because I don't want another hokey.
09:36.15
sandy
You know, big guns. Yeah yeah, but I think it's important to say like we we knew like once this was closed and and like there's no.
09:37.19
heymarvelous
Bank or like seemingly hoki bank or local bank. At this point I just want like I want like J B Morgan well far like I don't care I just want like something that's too big to fail. Yeah.
09:55.30
heymarvelous
Okay.
09:55.17
sandy
There's not going to return right? So we know we're going to get our cash out our deposit out but where do we put it. We have to pay people next week we don't have a bankup a backup bank account and it takes as most of you know it doesn't you can't just instantly get ah a business bank account.
10:09.97
heymarvelous
No.
10:12.60
sandy
And so the the new panic was like we need to be able to um because the notice on the Fdic website said that we would be able to have access to our funds up to 250000 so that's great, but where do we put it like if we can get if that's true. Where do we transfer it to so we panicked like oh my god we need to start a bank account.
10:22.64
heymarvelous
Like this.
10:31.20
heymarvelous
Yes.
10:31.94
sandy
Today and so yeah I'm online trying to find anything in you know meeting for you to take on on but everything was full like it was just impossible. Anyway, we got it.
10:39.12
heymarvelous
Yeah, yes, and because like the complexity of our business right? We're a delaware corporation where we operate as a foreign company in the state of Washington I'm not in that state currently. Living in a different state. You're in a different country like because we there's more than 1 person that owns 10% of the company like everyone who who owns more than 10 percent needs to be involved in the big creation of the bank account like it's not simple and so you know you have like flown to meet me before to set up bank accounts previously right? like we.
11:09.40
sandy
Um, yeah, yeah and I was ready to get on a plane to go down and move money. Yeah.
11:15.19
heymarvelous
Right? right? Yeah I was ready to fly to Washington like I was ready to meet you in Seattle if that's what it took and so it's just it's just one of those things that I think you know, um, ah I know a lot of people many thousands of people went through the exact same thing that we did Sandy and like we had.
11:29.44
sandy
The path.
11:33.10
heymarvelous
You know more than 6 figures in this bank account and so I was terrified we were losing this money. There have been lots of times where we have had well over two hundred and fifty thousand dollars sitting in that account and I just felt really grateful all weekend as we weren't sure until last night. What was actually going to happen to the non-insured money.
11:45.40
sandy
Um, yeah, um.
11:50.59
heymarvelous
Felt really grateful that we currently did not have that money sitting in there and um because if this had happened six months ago or twelve months ago or whenever like we would have like been terrified of losing like many many hundreds of thousands of dollars which I know is what lots of founders were doing and.
11:58.91
sandy
Oh my god.
12:07.67
heymarvelous
Um, and then like also this happened for us at the time of the month like we have certain times of the month where we have a lot of charges and we just sort of completed that part of the month like just the way things line up with our banking and so yes, we have payroll. Um for americans this week.
12:12.34
sandy
Um, and.
12:25.90
heymarvelous
But most of our payroll happens in other weeks and so like there's lots of things that lined up for us that like also made me feel really grateful all weekend when I was reading on Twitter like you know I couldn't tear myself away like reading the stories of ah of other companies and people were sending out you know emails to their client list like begging for them to like.
12:31.23
sandy
Um.
12:35.83
sandy
Yeah.
12:44.30
heymarvelous
Pre buy things so that they could meet payroll this week and stuff and just people it just it's just been nuts and so I just feel grateful and also like come on world like how many more things are we going to have thrown at us. Yeah.
12:45.93
sandy
Um, yeah, um.
12:57.30
sandy
I know I know I know I it was like this balancing of like we're going to be fine. You know where we ah that money is insured. We will get it. We're fine. There were stories of like startups who had like $38000000 in that account and they get to 150000 guaranteed like now we know that.
13:01.73
heymarvelous
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, right.
13:15.21
sandy
That the the um government. The federal government is going to um, make sure that all depositors get all money. Shareholders are out of luck and I think that's so I think that's the right call in this case. So but it's like when when will you get it like can I just on Monday morning transfer $38000000 out like the the uncertainty of not knowing how it all. Plays like and we know we have a software company that like shut down the software shutdown because so many people were using it in the pandemic. The first couple of days so I have like these visions of like svb.
13:36.42
heymarvelous
Um.
13:47.84
sandy
Platform just like tanking because it can't handle all the requests that are coming into like so to wire money out right.
13:48.46
heymarvelous
I think. Yeah, no totally I got up at four a m and started trying to log into our bank like I just kept refreshing every 5 minutes since four a m today just because we were like just so people understand like we could log into our bank on friday.
14:01.18
sandy
Um, yeah, and yeah, yeah.
14:10.13
heymarvelous
And then at some point like Friday night I think it's when like everything shut off and it had this big like warning on the website and they're like don't worry the fdi see has taken over your bank and you'll you know tune back in next week and you'll have access to your insured funds is basically with the message said.
14:11.40
sandy
Yeah Friday afternoon was got yeah.
14:25.23
sandy
Um, yeah, all banking will resume on Monday morning. It's like really really I know.
14:29.36
heymarvelous
Yeah, really yeah, so yeah.
14:34.70
sandy
Was such a weird feeling when that happened like because I kept like just even though the bank was frozen I could I could log in just stare at everything right I could just like Okay, there's the money we're screenshottting everything and then then there was a point like you said that it just got shut and we couldn't even log in and it was such an eerie feeling to like not even be able to look.
14:41.94
heymarvelous
Um, yes.
14:47.71
heymarvelous
Um, yeah.
14:53.13
sandy
At the number on the screen I don't know it was just it was brutal but you know the other thing I wanted to talk to you about is like first of all I'm still like in shock at how fast this happened in 48 hours and and at 40 year old bank got taken out.
14:55.73
heymarvelous
Yeah, yeah.
15:08.35
heymarvelous
He.
15:10.37
sandy
And the role that Twitter played in the role that social media played in the role that panic played was so interesting to me. So apparently as I said the Ceo um issued a statement on Wednesday that they were raising money um to sort of back up their balance sheet. Basically. And I guess there was a Zoom call with the Ceo and I met. We weren't invited to the Zoom call I guess we're not the big big enough players but he was on there with customers depositors and he said the words. The worst thing everyone can do is to panic which I guess made everyone after that zoome call completely freak out and then on thursday.
15:36.98
heymarvelous
Here.
15:46.31
heymarvelous
Behind.
15:49.93
sandy
There were um, a number of venture capitalists advising their their um the tech founders in their fund to take their money out and so that was like I think what did I say $42000000000 were transferred out of svb in one day because of a few people said.
16:07.25
heymarvelous
Within.
16:07.30
sandy
You know, influential people in the vc world said I think you should get your money out and that just spun out of control and everybody was talking about it on Twitter and it caused a mass panic and I was reading this article who knows where because I read every single thing that passed through the feed on Twitter svb collapse hashtag.
16:13.70
heymarvelous
Um, making.
16:16.88
heymarvelous
Okay.
16:27.25
sandy
Um, they said like in 2000 like the biggest comparison is 2008 right? But back then people didn't really even have smartphones you know like we just didn't have this way to communicate and so it was questioning the role of social media in the in the in the downfall of Svb. Right? Like he's you know someone said this and then just like goes everybody shares it retweets it and it just ah and everyone's pulling money and there's a bank run.
16:44.80
heymarvelous
Um, yeah, yeah, no I think that's super interesting I I remember when I was teaching law. Back in my previous career when like Twitter was really just taking off and becoming popular one of the things that we were studying was the role that Twitter and social were playing sort of in. Um, arab spring and in like a lot of the big major social movements because it's like it's one of these things that it's it it like grabs on to contagion and spreads it so much more quickly than anything else and it does it politically and obviously financially and so it's like 1 of these tools that I think as humans we've.
17:22.76
sandy
Um, yeah, yeah.
17:32.58
heymarvelous
Got to be like very vigilant about how it's being used and like questioning is this is this something that we want to have around and want to have participating with and what are the rules around that because I mean this could have been really bad like this it still could.
17:45.46
sandy
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:46.82
heymarvelous
Be right? like it's Monday it's March thirteenth it's Monday the middle of the day we don't actually know how this story plays out over the course of the coming days and weeks like this this could you know we could be acting like oh everything's fine now right? or or what else right? Like what else does this does this cause to happen.
17:53.30
sandy
Yeah, right, there could be more more banks could go out to go down. Yeah, um, yeah.
18:06.54
heymarvelous
Like what other kind of Instability does this economic instability cause because I think like when you start questioning like it never would have um, dawned on me that this that like we wouldn't be able to get the money out of this bank that we like to me, it's like there's no question. This is safe and so like what else isn't safe right? so.
18:20.91
sandy
Um, yeah is not saves. Yeah, yeah.
18:25.64
heymarvelous
Had the pandemic that happened that like caused the entire everything like healthwise around us to be questioned and now this happens It's like really like this is like a house of cards that we're living in I mean that's how I feel it's like what are all these things that I take for granted or hold you know these assumptions about that aren't.
18:33.40
sandy
Um, yeah, yeah.
18:41.60
sandy
Yeah, yeah, no, it's true and I like it. There is no certainty right? That's the only thing that is certain that there is no certainty and I think it's just we have to just really recognize that like nothing is for sure. Nothing.
18:43.30
heymarvelous
Real.
18:50.63
heymarvelous
Um, and.
18:57.94
heymarvelous
A.
19:00.36
sandy
And when a bank that's forty years old and had the deposit level I can't remember what the act it was like two hundred and nine billion dollars they they fail like it's just astounding and like who is going to feel okay in like a in like a.
19:11.42
heymarvelous
Um, this okay.
19:16.92
sandy
You know what I don't know what you call them down there like a community bank a smaller bank with Ford right? I can know I know that they like I would question it like now everyone's going to run to the big, the big guys because why would you? Why would you take the chance when this can happen. Um.
19:19.83
heymarvelous
Yeah, nobody. Ah yeah.
19:26.65
heymarvelous
Is.
19:33.00
sandy
I think svb is a unique bank because it was obviously started in Silicon Valley and it was very much for startups and it was the bank to go to? Um, so if you because they understood that that industry right? We started with svb because of the accelerator that we were in it was just like go to that bank. There was no discussion.
19:51.11
heymarvelous
We were. We were required to use that bank. Yeah yeah, and and like I think most accelerators actually require this bank so because it's just.
19:52.81
sandy
You didn't choose you were required. Oh I didn't know that. Okay.
20:02.28
sandy
Um, ah.
20:03.98
heymarvelous
It's what is known and has has been always known. Um, if you're going to do fundraising like this is the bank that you wire money in from investors. It's also I I think this is worth pointing out. Um, it's one of the only banks that would allow non US citizens to like really easily get credit cards and debit cards and so.
20:09.92
sandy
Yeah.
20:15.99
sandy
Yes, yes, yes, that's right? Yeah, yeah, that's right I do remember this.
20:22.50
heymarvelous
Um, that was also really helpful for us because you and I were going into business together and and so and like 1 of the most interesting things right now is that um you can't why we can. We can access our funds as of a few hours ago but we cannot wire any money out of the United States so like we cannot send any money to you right? like we have to get it to another bank account first and I'm just thinking about all of these companies that are you know startups that have gone through an accelerator in the us and or have taken us investment and are largely based outside of the United States or like they're still locked out of their money. They can't access it and so.
20:46.97
sandy
Um I have yes.
20:55.32
sandy
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, the stories that will come. Yeah.
20:59.18
heymarvelous
There's a lot I think a fallout in that in the startup world that's going to happen and and like what kind of um diversity this is going to crush by just making it so hard to work across countries and collaborate.
21:06.50
sandy
Yeah, yes, yeah, and um I also you know when you get on into the Twitter world. There's a lot of really disgusting comments and and but there's a lot of a lot of talk about like. Oh those rich billionaires you know and they can lose their money and who cares and and it was like it was just so wrong to me like these tech startups. Yeah sure there are a few rich billionaire founders but not all of them and there was like all these women.
21:25.68
heymarvelous
And.
21:44.99
sandy
Who would be like you know Svb is the only bank like I had an idea for a startup I went to ten banks I couldn't get an account I couldn't get a credit card but Svb understood my business and they gave it to me and I could not have started my business without them because traditional banking does not understand tech startup right.
22:02.31
heymarvelous
Um, yeah.
22:04.44
sandy
And so my heart was just broken for all these people and for svb because it like we didn't have the best experience with them. Um, but it sounds like there's so many people who got started because Svb would would give them a bank account right? And so it's just like.
22:20.29
heymarvelous
Um, yeah, and yeah.
22:23.32
sandy
If that doesn't exist anymore if you are a woman of color or um, you know a a woman like whatever different country like you don't have any choice you got to go talk to chase like are they going to like get it and maybe they will now I don't know but.
22:28.46
heymarvelous
Or from or from a a nonited states. Yeah, please? Yeah no I don't think so I I feel like I could walk in and open in a. And a bank account at Jp Borgan Chase because I had an existing personal relationship there and that was the only way I could open a bank account for our company there this quickly and this effectively and so there is a tremendous amount of luck and privilege because you and I tried to open a chase bank account years ago together. You flew.
22:46.60
sandy
Right.
22:57.61
sandy
Oh good lord.
23:02.53
heymarvelous
The United States so that we could do that and it was like this arduous process of jumping through hoops and then and then we still couldn't get a credit card because you're Canadian like it was just terrible and then I mean for those of you that are like wondering at to run a company at the scale that we do you really need a credit card like our bills.
23:06.74
sandy
Um, was like 4 hours credit card.
23:21.40
heymarvelous
Our bills are insane and so to to have that much cash just like flowing all the time out of a bank account through debit purchases is unrealistic and so I just think like simple things like that that it's hard to get a credit card for a company like ours like those things are going to stifle.
23:37.58
sandy
Um, yeah.
23:39.56
heymarvelous
Innovation and they're going to make it so that people who are already you know experiencing ah a great deal of privilege are going to continue to have that privilege and I mean that's just the truth of it and and including us right? like we're at a place now where we you know people want us to bank with them that was not the case years ago and so I just.
23:47.95
sandy
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah for sure. No back then? no.
23:59.20
heymarvelous
I feel anyway like that's sad. That's really disappointing.
24:00.46
sandy
Yeah, it is it is I don't think I because I didn't wasn't involved with this the accelerator in the early days and I didn't start the svb I I didn't understand like how important it was to that tech community and how I think it was something like 30% of all tech startups in the United States bank at svb.
24:17.58
heymarvelous
Yeah.
24:19.64
sandy
And um night ah in the to some of the Twitter threads. There was just like let them let them let them fail like let them lose their money and it was just like so narrow sided to want that sect because you know all of them are on their fricking.
24:31.55
heymarvelous
Um, yeah yeah yeah I know I was reading those comments to where people are like because there was some local politician in San Francisco that a bunch of people have retweeted who was basically like saying let them fail like.
24:38.47
sandy
Iphones.
24:49.33
heymarvelous
Let's not bail out these people these kinds of people and and like somebody is like yeah as you write on the platform that was created as a startup on the phone that was created as a startup on the you know like everything you do you can do because of startups and so I think like people just.
24:51.30
sandy
Um, right? yeah.
25:00.24
sandy
Um, right? Yeah yeah.
25:06.89
heymarvelous
Put blinders on and they don't actually consider the bigger picture of what they're saying or like yeah, it's just yeah, yeah, yeah.
25:11.79
sandy
Yeah, like and then they're going to turn around and go take a yoga class on marvelous and then use a face filter to live stream their thoughts about whatever and like. The innovation is just stifled if we can't get money to and and I think I read too. There is like a ah lot of environmental startups. Um banked with svb right? and so like it's like done. They're all out it. This would take you back like 30 years if we lost all these startups. So.
25:31.15
heymarvelous
Yeah, oh yeah, like all like the carbon neutrality group. Yeah like yeah yeah.
25:43.57
sandy
It was just yeah, it was really unfortunate that it that turned into this kind of chatter. But and there's just it's such a naive way to think? um.
25:49.39
heymarvelous
Well and like you know this is not big tech this is not where Facebook has its money right? like this is these is these are smaller companies where like as many people have pointed out people like us work at far below market rates to create things in the world that never existed before and that's.
25:54.89
sandy
Right.
26:06.13
sandy
Or and that's like and and we have amazing team of people who for the most part your get great. That's just be part like these aren' not fish tab drops like I don't know who out there based athlete is but.
26:07.98
heymarvelous
Like and and we have an amazing team of people who for the most part work at below market rates right? That's what's being part of a startup is like these are not cushy tech jobs like I don't know who out there thinks that that's what this is but that is not what this is like. We don't like shave off all of the margin we can and hoard it in our like Scrooge Mcduck swimming pools of gold like we reinvested in our companies to create something meaningful in the world and so it's just like come on guys.
26:31.17
sandy
Yeah, yeah, and and even like all of these tech companies that are locked out who can't the the payroll is going to the designer and to the web site person and to.
26:44.70
heymarvelous
Yeah.
26:48.79
sandy
You know the HR team who have mortgages and lunches to make for their children. It's not just like there's 1 person at the top raking in the billions and it doesn't affect anyone for example, your husband's company happened to use a payroll company that.
26:50.66
heymarvelous
Great.
27:03.58
heymarvelous
That routed through Svb Yeah, right? Yeah yes, yes, yes, yes, that's an added layer to the stress of the weekend which is that there was like a moment there where I was like I don't know if either of us are ever going to paid again like.
27:07.10
sandy
Routed through Svb and and your husband didn't get paid because all the money was locked in Svp and they're not ah.
27:23.27
heymarvelous
Actually like we're both start. We're both in startups and so like there's a lot of families like that right? that are just like oh we didn't get paid you know and and very thankfully I am not a person in this moment in my life that lives paycheck to paycheck but a lot of people do So I Just also want to say.
27:24.80
sandy
Ah, that's that's stressful at all.
27:38.12
sandy
Yeah, sure they do Etsy? Yeah yes, yes.
27:41.59
heymarvelous
And then a lot of like Etsy etsy uses svb for payroll processing. So a lot of Etsy sellers weren't getting paid and I mean the story goes on and on and on so you think about like how many people in the United States it's more than half of the population lifts paycheck to paycheck so not getting paid on Friday had a real. Profound impact in people's lives and so like that also has to be part of this story like thankfully I think at this point the payroll processing and money processing companies have all caught up as far as I know and so people like maybe it's a 2 or 3 day delay but like people had.
28:04.44
sandy
Yes.
28:16.23
heymarvelous
Are going to have fees overdraft fees right? Like if you're living paycheck to paycheck having overdraft fees is a big deal for you like that means you can't buy as much food that means you can't buy gas to get to work or to take your kids to school or whatever it is like there's real effects here and so I just I don't know I think it's really like.
28:17.34
sandy
Last.
28:24.57
sandy
Um, yeah.
28:35.31
heymarvelous
That's why that like echo chamber of Twitter is so gross.
28:38.76
sandy
Right? It's disgusting. Yeah, but you know the flip side of this was we saw a lot of kindness and support. We saw venture capital firms saying to its to its um, ah founders like we'll back you up so you can pay payroll. There were companies like Nathan Latka um found what's called founder path. Um, who were like raising money to get to founders as soon as possible so that they could pay make payroll or pay their bills because we didn't know you know like a lot of them would get the two fifty potentially on on Monday and then.
28:56.80
heymarvelous
Um, yeah.
29:04.96
heymarvelous
Yeah.
29:14.19
sandy
That wasn't like it's a drop in a bucket to pay you know for their payroll or whatever like it doesn't mean anything. Yeah, it doesn't mean anything so people were just like pulling money together to support and um, that was kind of cool to watch that there was like reach out to me I've got you.
29:14.45
heymarvelous
Right? It's like maybe one week of payroll and operating it maybe for a bigger startup. Yeah yeah.
29:31.17
sandy
There were also people saying like if you need to have they um, plan on how to handle this cash flow crisis like I'm I'm doing free sessions for you and we're going to plan this is this is what I'm going to do for you like just Dm me like that was kind of amazing too.
29:45.48
heymarvelous
Um, yeah, yeah, no, it had that like early pandemic energy of like we're all in this. We've got you like we're here. Don't worry about it kind of stuff. So.
29:50.43
sandy
Um, yeah, yeah, it's true. Yeah yeah.
29:57.61
heymarvelous
Yeah I don't I don't know I don't know how to like really process this like I think I'm going to need some extra therapy in coaching around this whole thing. Um, because again it's not just an isolated event like for us it is um, just another.
30:15.61
heymarvelous
Another event in a series of events that have created a lot of just like mental and psychological harm.
30:21.00
sandy
I think yeah I mean that's why I wanted to do this podcast today. So this is like the Monday that everyone got access to the bank. It was the Monday after this whole thing collapsed and um, it's like running on adrenaline for like.
30:28.34
heymarvelous
Yeah.
30:39.58
sandy
Four days straight and just like shaking and then you know, check checking all the sites and Twitter to see what's going on because it was happening and obviously happening in real time you don't want to miss anything I knew that they would want to because I read it on Twitter I knew that they would want to make an announcement and either having a.
30:48.37
heymarvelous
Yeah.
30:58.24
sandy
Ah, ah someone to buy the bank or um have another plan. The government would have to step in ah before markets opened on in Asia which is like five o'clock my time so like just like waiting knowing that you just can't let it go and it's just.
31:15.84
sandy
I Just feel shaky and I know we're fine but I still like it's just the. It's just a terrible I Just can't come down from it.
31:24.25
heymarvelous
Yeah, yeah, totally yeah I feel like just rocked just like you kind of settle in to like things are normalizing and they're like there's no stability like you said and I like to talk about it like islands of stability like there. There was like a little. Ah, tiny pocket of an island of stability there like post- Pandemicdeic Island and now I think the kind of I'll just be following the economy a lot more closely because obviously um I feel like that's a responsibility I have in the rule that I have to be paying attention to things but you know. At some point like I don't know I feel like just reading Mary Oliver poetry and just like feeling in my human body and like recognizing like the actual things in my physical space around me because all of this other stuff is.
32:04.28
sandy
Um, yeah.
32:15.44
heymarvelous
These made up systems that we have like have so I've allowed them to have so much control of my life and I just it feels really unhealthy and um, you know the other thing Sandy that I saw is a lot of founders and like investors actually were posting.
32:17.68
sandy
Um, yeah.
32:28.63
sandy
Mental Health yeah yeah yeah I that's that was my thought too is like if this if they lose that money if it there is no like there will be suicides because the.
32:32.45
heymarvelous
Like really like look out for each other and take care of yourself because like this is the kind of thing that causes suicide right? like this is the kind of thing that yeah, um, yeah.
32:48.13
sandy
Just it all comes crashing down. So I thought that too but I was impressed with the level of like the mention how often mental illness was mentioned and if you need help here's resources like people were just pulling stuff together to help each other it was It was quite remarkable. But yeah, so thankfully.
32:49.60
heymarvelous
Yeah.
32:55.46
heymarvelous
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
33:06.13
sandy
Everyone's getting their money. The depositors are going to be covered. There's just billions of dollars being transferred as we speak out of Svp accounts. Um.
33:15.18
heymarvelous
Yeah, as I'm going to go refresh. We're still waiting on a few transfers like as we're recording this podcast like transfers were initiated and we haven't seen them all. Um.
33:20.24
sandy
Um, yeah.
33:25.74
sandy
Yep, come through I'm sure they will. Yup.
33:26.50
heymarvelous
Go into different accounts. Yeah, but it's it's a bit nervewracking. Yeah, so so this is kind of a live play by play you know I think I thought about actually recording something over the weekend. But I I think you and I were both such a mess that it wouldn't have been helpful.
33:35.50
sandy
I I think no I I needed to know I needed to see those transfer like back into the bank and transfer initiated and like that we were going to be able to make payroll then then we can talk about it without bursting into tears or screaming and sparing.
33:46.74
heymarvelous
Yeah, yeah I know Yeah, okay.
33:54.57
sandy
Um, ok so that is that's it. That's like I just think it's important to hear the stories of the behind the scenes of running a company at this level and um for some of you. It may be like a distant news story but to us. I don't know minute by minute we lived it for the last four days so insane all right? Do you want to move on to join hustle.
34:12.75
heymarvelous
Yeah, yeah, let's yeah, let's move on to join hustle. Let's do the hustle first because it's related.
34:24.28
sandy
Yeah, so I think the hustle is just to take a look at your bank and um I don't think like for me the lessons learned here is I don't think as a business owner I will ever be okay with just having one bank account anymore. I want to know that I have a place to instantly transfer if something happens to that bank. Um, and more importantly, um, so in Calgary here I have a personal banker private banker and it's just really great to be able to have a person that you can pick up the phone and call. And then as you said you went and got chased this morning. Um, yeah, this morning you created ah our new chase account and you were able to get some things faster because you also had your private banking there too. Um, so it's like a relationship meant means everything.
35:08.89
heymarvelous
Yes, it really does it just like it made this process go so much more smoothly and I think so so I think the hustle is like yeah check your bank like.
35:14.41
sandy
In banking. Just.
35:24.10
heymarvelous
Just be careful about where you bank and like pay attention to your bank. Although I I still would have felt like Svb was a super safe bet for us. Um diversification I think is important and not just like I Also just think not having a ton of cash like.
35:29.37
sandy
Um, yeah, yeah.
35:36.19
sandy
Yeah, like what you don't yeah but I will say don't have $38000000 in 1 place I will say that as a non.
35:38.16
heymarvelous
I Don't know I mean that's my like we're not financial advisers. Don't listen to us but like yeah, that's a really bad idea. Yeah, so so just like honestly I don't know for me Personally, it just makes me want to really reallocate like.
35:54.25
sandy
Yeah, which is trying to become the city. Yeah yeah.
35:55.00
heymarvelous
Where those resources are and you know we have done a lot to not have ah a ton of cash sitting there like to use the money in different ways and to invest it in different ways and so I'm grateful that we made those choices but even still like I just I know a lot of people are like going to gold and like things like that right now. But I just I actually just like have some real estate.
36:13.40
sandy
Yeah.
36:14.27
heymarvelous
Have some stocks like have some cash have some crypt like maybe just like have like have a spread so that you're I mean that's like my take on it. This again is totally not advice. But it's just like evaluate like really think it through for me diversification. Seems like the way to go like that feels safer like the more banks the more kinds of asset Classes. You have the more just like just like spread it out and then if anything catastrophic happens to anything like you're you got other things that's all.
36:33.90
sandy
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, and the more banks you have each of those accounts as I understand it would be Um, yeah.
36:46.13
heymarvelous
Yeah, each each. Ah but each bank like each you can have 1 account within a bank that's insured. So yes, so there's I think this is also going to cause a rise of an entirely new kind of sector in banking where you like we've already experienced one of these. We're using one of them now. But you put your money in and then it's.
36:53.10
sandy
Yes.
37:00.99
sandy
Um, yeah, yes.
37:05.53
heymarvelous
Spread your money out across as many banks as it needs to so that you only have 250 k in any single bank and I think that that's just how people are going to bank now too is like you're going to go to some kind of central hub and then those people or that company is going to move your money around for you which is probably smart. Although I think.
37:09.14
sandy
Yeah, and.
37:24.50
heymarvelous
And the United States I think that the rules are probably going to change because 250 k is not as much money as it was when that rule was created right to ensure that amount of money. So I also think that though some rules are going to change around that.
37:33.55
sandy
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I just want to to my canadian friends. Um, as I understand it like so we have 6 banks up here and we pay more and they are super stable and it's.
37:43.97
heymarvelous
Oh.
37:50.60
sandy
There we don't like the number of banks the us has is just astounding to me and there is a graphic on floating around on Twitter showing how many banks have failed and you know in route like little circles to show the the size and then svb and um washington mutual is that right? Washington mutual those 2 banks are like huge and then there's like.
38:03.71
heymarvelous
Yeah.
38:08.90
sandy
Hundreds of small banks that have failed um that just can't happen in Canada because of our regulations and if any of the banks failed up here would literally take out the canadian economy so it just won't happen. So the the stability in Canada is totally different than the US but we pay for it is.
38:24.88
heymarvelous
Who.
38:26.83
sandy
Much much much more expensive up here to bank Although Svb was her month I never understood that oh my God Yeah, it was super confusing.
38:30.30
heymarvelous
A lot. We're paying many hundreds of dollars a month in just fees for them to a statement to us like it was so fusing to me never made any sense like. And you're they're making money off of by loaning our money out or investing our money and yet we're paying them so many hundreds of dollars every month. Yeah, so that is a change from these normal banks because in normal banks in the Us.
38:48.21
sandy
Um, yeah, it was insane.
38:59.10
heymarvelous
You actually like don't pay anything if you have a lot of money That's my experience more money you have like you don't pay anything you have less charges. So anyway, that's just like a whole weird thing. But.
39:02.22
sandy
Um, yeah, right.
39:08.81
sandy
Yeah, okay so hustle is just look at your bank and there's going to be Um, yes.
39:13.89
heymarvelous
Pay attention to your finances your business finances your personal finances don't take anything for granted, nothing is actually secure be smart. That's all vigilant. Yeah I mean kind of like fireproof safe. Um can I Just tell you we were looking wait. We have I hope.
39:19.61
sandy
Like hundred dollar bills in my mattress now. Yeah, okay, let's do some joy. Can we talk about something else.
39:31.79
heymarvelous
Yeah I have 1 more thing that's really funny that I want to tell everyone on the podcast. So um, we've on and off looked been looking for houses here like as another home in this new state where we're living now and one of the houses that I toured like and I've been in this house multiple times because. Anyway, it was a good location I didn't love the house but also I couldn't buy the house because of this reason it had a safe room. It had like a go room in the closet in the primary bedroom. There was like this really janky wall like they like didn't match the rest of the house like it was like crooked and bumpy and weird. And there was a mirror on it. A big mirror and I was like what is this weird wall in this walking closet and I like moved the mirror to the side and it was like a secret room. It was like a secret handmade janky room and house with like the gun safe and like all these cameras in it. And I'm like people are so and you're like selling your house with a real estate agent and everyone who comes in your house now knows about your secret room because it's no, it's not actually hidden. It's like so obvious it's like.
40:37.45
sandy
But it's still yeah, that's like how will that work if they come into the house to look for you. They'll like instantly see the wall is janky and it's like they'll find you.
40:46.41
heymarvelous
Yeah I know somebody is like not doing a good job with their wall I think my guess and my husband and I talked about this because we have like been in the house multiple times because we're like oh maybe this is a good house and then we can't actually buy the house because of this room but I I because I cannot stand the idea of having that in my house. But. Like maybe the person like didn't want to hire someone to come and build this properly because they didn't want anyone to know it was there so they like snuck the materials into their house and made their janky like Escape room themselves because they like didn't want anyone know was there and now like the secrets out because it's like listed on the mls. But. Anyway, this just that like there's people legitimately that are like living like this right? They're like ok, there's no,, There's no real society I'm going to take all my money and my guns and I'm going to stick them in my fake janky closet room and like that's where I'm that's where I'm hiding out. So.
41:40.34
sandy
Um, okay, all right I don't yeah yeah.
41:42.98
heymarvelous
That's such an american story isn't it Sandy I knew you would appreciate it. That's like when I told you when I was buying my truck and for those of you that don't know I have ah an f one fifty and when I was buying my truck for myself a few years ago and I was like like picking all the configurations of the truck. And you could like put the handgun safe in like the center console is like 1 of the like features you pick when you're like designing your truck and and you're like what you what I was like yeah, it's like the handgun safe and you're like what it's like I think for a truck. It's not that weird that it was like.
42:03.63
sandy
No, no, no, but is that weird to you or is that like a normal like I mean it's is ah but did you think it was weird as a non handgun owner.
42:16.36
heymarvelous
Part of the f one fifty build I mean I wasn't going to buy the handgun compartment. Yeah, it's like I look at that. That's interesting.
42:20.53
sandy
No I know but were you just is it like it's like picking your rims like it's the same thing like you did you I had changed. Oh my god like a gun rack I get because like out here in Alberta got lots of those but.
42:30.27
heymarvelous
Oh my god Andy my father was a card carrying member of that all right? So we don't need to get into this conversation right now. But no, it was not shocking to me. That's the answer all right. We can move on now we can move on.
42:39.10
sandy
Wow. Okay, okay, all right. Can we have some joy give me some joy hit me with joy.
42:48.90
heymarvelous
Okay, now that society has totally collapsed and you've heard us talk about that. Let me talk about something beautiful. So my joy is just is so I went to Taliesin West which is Frank Lloyd Wright's southwest home where he used to winter with his um. His proteges and his family and I had been holding off and going because I just really wanted to go at a time where I had some like mental space. So of course I chose the weekend where the banks were crashing and I just actually went for the opposite reason that I needed to like totally distract myself.
43:20.10
sandy
Um, the banks collapseing. Yeah.
43:26.10
heymarvelous
So we went to Taliesin West and it was so amazing and just to like be in the creative physical space of someone like Frank Lloyd Wright who obviously is so iconic and brilliant and um it was just so cool to so to like experience the architecture because just like.
43:35.37
sandy
Ah.
43:42.54
sandy
Um, Wow. Yeah yeah.
43:44.32
heymarvelous
Reading about someone or you know like studying their designs I mean it like the Guggenheim obviously is amazing. That's the only building of his that I had ever actually been in which I love in New York but um, anyway, so I finally went to this and there's just all these these. Like really amazing like design feature sandy where like he has this idea that you you when you go into a space like go into a building you go through this tiny tiny entrance like and then and then when you get into the to the and you get into the space. It's this.
44:14.42
sandy
And.
44:19.82
heymarvelous
Spans of experience because you have to go through this almost like tunnel tiny little doors and like cramped spaces where you feel like you almost have to duck and then you like get into the room and it's like it's like breathing like it's just like your body and like physically relaxes because you've just went through this like transitional space and then you're like.
44:20.53
sandy
This man.
44:32.66
sandy
Ah.
44:38.19
heymarvelous
Birthed into the rooms. It's just oh, it's just amazing I loved it so much. It's a Zm now. Yeah, so yeah, so you yeah, you can go to like a bunch of his different buildings are part of I guess.
44:42.12
sandy
Um, so is it just like a public place that you just pay and you can go chore a museum. Ah.
44:54.44
heymarvelous
This connected museum I don't really understand it all. But um, yeah, it's like so this was his his It was like his winter residence for years and years and years and um and so he would bring like all of his students. Basically all of his apprentices with him and they would like.
45:04.78
sandy
Um.
45:14.32
heymarvelous
Travel on mass between Wisconsin and and Arizona and in the winter they would spend all this time and they had like no glass or anything in the windows. It was just like these tents and it but it was like these. The architecture is like this concrete and these stones that they found on the property in the desert and the way the windows are configured like everything is just intentional I think that's why I loved it so much like every view of every space and every design of every single thing is intentional and um.
45:32.66
sandy
Um, and.
45:36.53
sandy
Wow Yeah, yes.
45:45.11
sandy
Wow, that's amazing. That is yeah I want to see that next time I come down there. That's cool. My brother is an architect so I know of of of Frank Lloyd Wright because of him and I just I also just love I mean who doesn't love the buildings I don't know.
45:45.79
heymarvelous
Really really fricking. Cool. Yeah, highly recommend? Yeah, next time you come tear zone.
46:00.25
heymarvelous
Yeah.
46:03.76
sandy
Maybe there's a few people but it just every there's a couple homes that I you know I'm always looking for a new house here and and there was a couple that reminded me I call them the Frank Lloyd Wright houses are not really, but it's like this that there just something about the way that they were the layout was just like very Frank Lloyd Wright I just loved to.
46:22.11
heymarvelous
Um, so he yeah I mean you should totally do it it I think it's just like quality of life if you can live in a house like that like I he has this whole theory that you build like that that the heat it's organic architecture rate. So it's that the the.
46:23.81
sandy
There's this one house have my eye on it.
46:38.52
heymarvelous
The designed space fits in like organically with the natural space and it doesn't mean like organic the way we think of that word usually but he has this idea that you build on the brow of a piece of land and so you don't build on the highest point or the lowest point you build on like the brow because like it should just it should fit at this kind of.
46:43.58
sandy
Um, ah.
46:57.79
heymarvelous
Like the architecture should be at this like natural level where it would make sense to frame the landscape like your eyebrows frame your face. It's just like oh my God I Wish everything was this intentional. Oh and he had like like breezeways because it's the desert right? And so like he would build these breezeways and you stand in them and like because of.
47:05.96
sandy
Um, that's super cool.
47:11.28
sandy
No.
47:17.52
heymarvelous
Some kind of physics effect that I can't remember the name of like it gets windy like you're just there's no wind and you stand in these breezeways and it's windy there because it's been architected to be windy and like have air movement and it's just oh my God humans are capable of so much and we you we like really don't use it. You know like why.
47:19.39
sandy
Who.
47:26.15
sandy
Um, Wow aha.
47:36.79
heymarvelous
Not design everything like this apparently like honestly like we should all just think a little bit more intentionally about the spaces that we live in and the spaces where we work and the work that we do.
47:36.83
sandy
Because we're too busy tearing each other apart on Twitter on apps.
47:50.30
sandy
And the work that we do like where we want to focus and what we spend our time on you know, um who okay that was ah a good one.
47:54.93
heymarvelous
Yeah, yeah, all right? Well yeah, so if you are anywhere near a a Frank Lloyd Wright piece of architecture. Highly recommend that you go and experience it immerse in person. It's worth it. It's spectacular.
48:10.92
sandy
Um, and then go meet your banker.
48:12.99
heymarvelous
And then take care of your ish and diversify your assets across lots of places because nothing is safe. Nothing is secure welcome to 2023 all right see you next time.