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Stories of Wonder platforms and celebrates the real impact Deakin students, alumni, researchers and staff are making in the world, right now.
Deakin University CRICOS Provider Code: 00113B
Kirsten Diprose, welcome
to "Stories of Wonder."
- Hello. Thanks for having me.
- Pleasure.
So let's start talking a little bit
about your career as a journalist.
You knew you wanted to be a journalist
from a pretty early age,
but not just anywhere,
at the ABC.
(Kirsten chuckles)
Why was that so clear to you?
- Yeah, so I figured out I
wanted to be a journalist
at the age of 16,
and I think I just fell
in love with the ABC,
which is interesting,
because my family were very
much in into Channel Nine,
which, you know, back in the 90s
really produced some great stuff.
- Yeah, it really was sort
of the golden sort of home
of a lot of the sparkliest,
and still very credible, journalism.
- Absolutely, you know, it came,
I suppose the 80s is when all
the money was around in media.
People still talk about
it, "the good old days,"
and I was too young to
ever have experienced that.
But you know, they had
that Sunday morning show,
which was brilliant.
- Mm-hmm, certainly.
- You know, Jana Wendt was around.
So, and I enjoyed those programmes and,
but then I just kind of
stumbled upon the ABC,
started watching "Media
Watch," "Four Corners."
- Who was your "Media
Watch" host in that era?
- Oh, in that era? Oh, so
Jonathan Holmes was around.
- Mm, yeah.
- But who was before him?
- Margaret...
Yeah,
one of the, Margaret's-
- No, she was after Johnathan,
I reckon.
- Yeah, okay.
- Yeah.
- Yeah, everyone's got their "Media Watch"
(Kirsten chuckling)
kind of host
that a awakens them,
but yeah, "Media Watch."
- Yes, "Four Corners" and "7:30."
And I got to work on "7:30"
as one of my first jobs-
- Oh, wow!
- whilst still at uni.
- Wow, that's amazing!
- With Kerry O'Brien.
- Wow!
(Kirsten chuckles)
Well, that's, how legendary!
- Yeah.
It was pretty legendary.
I was responsible for
printing off his questions.
- Oh gosh.
- And it was
Arial Black size 20 is what he liked.
They were large printed. (laughing)
- I'm gonna make note of
that for my iPad over here.
- Sorry, Kerry.
(both laughing)
- Kerry, if you're watching, is that true?
Can we fact check with you?
- That's right.
- Yeah, but that's pretty amazing,
like that you knew so early.
Once you knew that that
was the dream though,
at the age of 16,
how did you start to make
a plan to make that happen?
- Well, I suppose by Year 12,
you know, I wanted to
do well at university.
Looked up what the,
UAI is what they used to call it then,
I suppose it's ATAR scores these days.
- Uh-huh, yeah.
- Was.
And I'm from Sydney, so
New South Wales system.
And wanted, wasn't sure
if I wanted to go to UTS
or Sydney Uni or whatever,
found out the marks were really high.
- Oh, right.
- Just 'cause it's popular.
- Yeah, uh-huh.
- And I was like,
"Oh wow, so I'm gonna have
to work really, really hard,"
which I would've, anyway, I
was one of those, you know,
bookish, nerdy people.
(Dom chuckles)
- I do remember that.
- So I was gonna work hard
anyway.
But Sydney University
I knew had a programme
where you could do an
internship in your final year.
So it was a four-year degree,
fourth year that had an internship.
And I thought if I can
get that for the ABC,
then I'll get a foot in the door.
'Cause I didn't have any,
like I didn't know anyone.
You know, I grew up in Western Sydney,
like I had no contact, so I was like,
"How am I gonna get into the media?"
But this was a pathway.
So I saw that at a young age
and was like, "That's what I want.
I'm going to try and
go for that internship.
And if I get that, a door might open."
- That is so much further ahead than,
I don't know if it's all other students,
but certainly myself
(Kirsten chuckles)
when I was finishing Year 12,
was thinking, so that's pretty impressive.
What did you do along the
way to kind of get there?
Like, what subjects did you
have to kind of nail in Year 12?
And did you get straight
into the course you wanted?
- Yeah, well, Year 12, I
really did what I liked,
and I think that's really great advice.
Like if you know you need prerequisites,
then I suppose, do that.
But because I knew I
wanted to study journalism,
do a media degree, I just
concentrated on my strengths,
which were history and
English is what I love.
So I did four units of English.
I think I did three units of history.
Well, I did ancient, modern,
and then extension history
is what they used to call it.
- Oh.
- And, (sighs) what else
do you do? Oh, drama.
And I must have done something else.
But I dropped maths in Year 11.
- Mm-mm.
- And I had to work really hard at maths
to be able to get an A, like really hard,
about like five times harder than I did.
And I remember getting
a B and just being like,
"I can't."
- Oh no.
- Which is, I look back on that now
and I don't regret my decision,
but just because you're not
good at something doesn't,
like naturally good at something,
doesn't mean you can't be,
you know?
- Yeah.
- Or it's not worthwhile.
- Hm.
- Like this is probably a
broader discussion, isn't it?
About like, what's education for,
and you know, is it purely to
get into a university degree?
- 100%, yeah.
Yeah.
- Yeah.
- You look back on,
and especially after you've
gone through a bit more life,
after you've done your
first university course,
if you're, you know,
lucky enough to do so.
And it was all, but that just to get in,
it was all centred around
that ATAR or that score.
- Yeah.
- And all the decisions you
made at the end of high school
might've been about that.
And then after you get
through that first one,
you realise, "Oh, there's a way.
There's a way to do what you want.
There's some way, there's
a pathway somewhere."
Did it all have to be
so (chuckles) stressful?
- Yeah. (chuckles)
Yeah, exactly.
So I look back and I'm not sure-
- So you dropped maths?
- I dropped maths, yeah.
- In Year 11, yeah.
- And look, I didn't need it,
like as in terms of my career.
- Mm.
- But you know,
I'm sure we'll talk about this later,
I actually now use maths quite a bit,
being on a farm now and looking
after budgets and things,
and also on a board, you know,
reading spreadsheets and reading budgets,
profit and loss and all of that.
Like, I've really had to
kind of go back to basics.
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
Well, so you got into
the course you wanted to.
Along the way, did you volunteer anywhere?
Were you at, you know,
doing radio or doing local?
I don't know,
we have a local sort of
community TV channel here.
Like, what did you do?
- Yes, so I was doing community radio
at Air FM, is what it was called.
And now I think it's Penrith Valley FM
or station or something.
And it was fabulous. It was
like this old, like house.
It used to be a house, you know,
this kind of like two or three
bed bedroom, brick house.
And it was converted into
a community radio station.
Still very much looked like a house.
(both chuckling)
And you'd go in the back door,
and yeah, one of the rooms had been,
well, two of the rooms had
been converted to studios.
And yeah, that's where I did my first show
with a guy who is now
on radio in Brisbane.
- Oh really?
- Yeah.
- Nice.
- And there was another
guy who now works at NOVA.
You've probably heard of
him, his name's Smallzy.
- Smallzy?
- Yeah.
This is a tiny little, you know,
Penrith Valley radio station.
It's like amazing.
So Smallzy is still going strong on,
like he was on NOVA for years
and still is.
- Oh, cool.
Shout-out to Smallzy.
- Oh yeah, I know. This
is my claim to fame.
(Dom chuckling)
His real name's Kent and he's great.
Anyway-
- I wouldn't have picked
that from Smallzy, anyway.
Go on, yeah.
(Kirsten chuckling)
- And yeah, and then,
so I did a show called "The
World of Rock and Pop."
And then I did another show-
- Cool.
- when I was 15 called "Pop Girls,"
which was with Angela Frino,
who works in ACE Radio for, in Dubbo,
I think she's the chief
of staff the last I heard.
So hilarious-
- Wow, the alumni is strong.
- they're still all in radio.
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
- Pop, what was it?
- "Pop Girls."
- "Pop Girls."
- Oh God,
so that would've been-
- Love that.
- like 2000.
- Yeah, wow!
- Very 2000.
- Very 2000. yeah, the
era of all the pop stars.
And so what did it teach you doing that?
So, what you were like 15?
- Yeah.
Yep, 15, 16.
- Yeah.
- So I did my work
experience there in Year 10,
which is how we kind of,
how I got in, I suppose.
- Uh-huh.
- And look, we just had fun.
I'm sure it would be
terrible to listen to now.
(both chuckling)
- Well, we've got the tape-
(Kirsten laughing)
to play it.
- I wish that was true.
(Dom chuckles)
I'm sure my mom does somewhere
have some takes of it, yeah.
(Dom chuckling)
- We're onto it.
We're onto it.
- Yeah. (chuckles)
- Our researchers.
- Yeah.
- Yeah,
but you learned the basics, I guess.
- Oh yeah, I mean, we used
to panel it ourselves.
And so this was in the days of, you know,
so you'd have your CDs, and
you'd be charging up your CDs.
There was a record player too.
We didn't have any records.
There was tapes.
We really used those,
'cause they didn't sound as good as CDs.
So I guess you learned panelling,
you learned how to improvise.
- Yeah, to fill-
- Yeah, to fill the gaps.
Learned about even like
sponsors and advertising
on certain programmes.
- Oh, cool, yeah.
- Yeah, I might've made
a comment off the cuff
about a certain fast food outlet
that I didn't like eating from,
and then realised that they were
like one of the sponsors or something.
You know, that was
a good learning, you know,
like being aware of like how
a programme is funded and-
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
No, I learned a lot and loved it.
Like, I did it right until,
on and off, depending on,
you know, what else I had
on school and sport-wise
till probably first year university.
I used to come back.
'Cause I still-
- Oh, really?
- lived at home my first
year of university,
and then even sometimes
I used to come back
and do guest shows just
for the fun of it, yeah.
- That's really cool that
you were able to stretch
that experience throughout that period.
- Yeah, and then I worked on 2SER,
which is the, like Sydney Univers...
Not Sydney University, sorry,
it was at the UTS building,
and it was, yeah, so it's
like a community radio station
for Sydney, kind of like 3RRR,
if you're more familiar
with the Melbourne one.
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
- Really cool.
And then it seems like,
you know, with all of this experience,
you knew exactly what you wanted to do,
and you were really focused on a career.
Not everyone at that
age is really dead set
on knowing that they want to
work, that they need to work,
and picking what that was.
I guess, why was career so
important to you at that age?
- Oh, that's a big question. I don't know.
I think I just found my passion
and knew that's what I wanted to do.
And I also knew there was no other option.
Like, you know, if I didn't
work, what was I going to do?
Like, the expectation was, you know,
I'd have to get a job
after I finished school.
- Uh-huh.
- You know, and my parents had said to me,
"If you go to university,
you can stay at home,
and we'll like support you in that way."
And I didn't have to pay board.
But then I moved out after two years
and paid my own rent after that.
But, you know, there was
like no other option.
I needed a career.
- Yeah.
- So I wanted to do one that I liked.
- Yeah, there was no question about it.
- Yeah.
- Well, you did end up studying journalism
as you've mentioned,
and you did end up getting
an internship at the ABC.
- Yes.
- What was it like stepping
into those hallowed halls
when you eventually did?
- Oh, amazing.
I remember like calling my
mom and being like, "Oh!"
She's like, "How was it?"
I'm like, "Oh, I love it! It's so great!"
(Kirsten chuckling)
- Awww.
- You know, and I mean, it wasn't easy
when you're in a completely new workplace,
and you're young and you
don't have all the skills yet.
- Yeah.
- But I just kind of took the approach
of being like a sponge.
And, you know, there were some people
who were just so generous with their time
and would sit down with you.
You know, and other people
who were just sort of busy
and probably didn't have the time.
- I was gonna say, 'cause yeah,
that's good that there were
people that are generous.
- Oh, yeah.
- 'Cause news-
- Not everyone is.
- a newsroom is,
yeah, a tough place to be.
(Kirsten chuckling)
- Yeah, and look, I think ABC in general
is probably a bit friendlier
than maybe the commercial environment.
But I can't say that for sure
because I've never worked
for a commercial outfit,
so I can't actually, yeah, back that up.
But from what I've sort of seen and heard,
look, the ABC's, you know,
just has a fabulous culture.
Always has, and still does today.
It doesn't mean it's perfect, no place is,
but it has just, it's like a
place full of really creative,
intelligent, genuinely nice people.
But no, just on on the whole,
it's just an amazing place.
- Yeah. And what did you get
to do on your internship?
- Oh, I remember shadowing
a couple of reporters,
so in radio news, and that was good.
I remembered, I spent most of my time
in radio current affairs, which I loved.
So there was, a war had
broken out in Lebanon-
- Uh-huh.
- and I remember cold-calling people,
which was a good experience
in that you're nervous,
whereas now I'm, yeah,
I haven't been nervous
about cold-calling someone in a long time.
But yeah, back then going, "Oh gosh!"
But you know, I actually got to help out,
'cause I stayed there for a few weeks.
By the end of it, they
were getting me to do stuff
that was actually going to air.
And I even interviewed someone.
I found a family and did an interview,
and I got dropped at the last second
just because of, there
was so much more news.
But look, that was how it went.
But I ended up getting a story,
a couple of stories on air
on "The World Today."
- That's so cool.
- So that was really cool,
because I'd sort of set
that, again, as my goal,
if I can kind of prove
myself, then, you know,
a door might open,
so yeah.
- Yeah,
- Now all Deakin students
get to undertake, you know,
similar kind of work-integrated
learning experiences,
sometimes internships, sometimes
sort of simulated things,
as part of their degrees.
So, I guess, like what value did you find
in a placement like that?
And do you have any advice
for students at the moment
on how to get the most out of it?
- Mm, great question.
And so I'm fortunate enough
to have taught journalism,
some journalism subjects
at Deakin University,
which I love doing.
I'm not currently doing that
'cause I'm doing my PhD.
- Mm-hmm.
- And I've said, "I've
just gotta finish that
before I can teach again."
But what I say to my students,
particularly, you know,
first years, but any year, it's,
first years, but any year, it's,
"Start just doing stuff now."
You know, volunteer for that
community paper or outlet
or radio station, whatever you can get on.
Or, you know, I'm sure
Deakin's probably got
some student platforms that you can do.
Start kind of building that portfolio
whilst doing your degree.
And that's the best thing that you can do.
So you've got those really
practical skills under your belt
as well as the degree.
And you need both, you know?
And you need both, you know?
- Yeah.
- And I'd say that
there're of equal value.
So yeah, work on both at the
same time and hone your craft
and use your lecturers and tutors to help.
Like, these are people who are passionate.
You know, the reason why I love teaching
is 'cause I love watching people grow.
And I always say to my
students, again, like,
"Send me something."
You know, I can't read your assignment
for instance, before it's like published.
But, you know, I'm happy
to give you feedback
if you've just got a question
or if you've written
something else or whatever.
Because yeah, your supervisors and tutors,
they really wanna be there,
and they love journalism
and they love the craft,
and so use that time
and those connections.
And yeah, 'cause it's a passion,
and I think, you know, you
wanna be as good as you can
so that when you do get an internship,
you can really just push yourself
a little bit to actually,
you know, try and get something published.
And if you get rejected, that's fine.
Like, I fell over a few times
and things didn't come off.
And like, it's not like I just was like,
"Oh," and then news got published.
No, there was,
I remember working on a
story in my internship,
and I just had no idea
of the time it would take
and, you know, like it all fell over.
- Mm-hmm.
- So don't be afraid to
fall. That's the other thing.
- It's such a big part
of that career as well.
Even like cold-calling.
- Yeah.
- Most of those calls
are not gonna go through,
or you might not get the quote,
but you've gotta keep sort
of being able to be resilient
and get back up again and do the next one.
- Exactly.
It's like feel, I think,
feel that feeling of being
uncomfortable, and that's okay,
but then you kind of
stretch and move through it.
And then the next time you do it,
it's not as hard and not as hard.
And then by the end, you know?
Like, I've been rejected so many times.
(both chuckling)
- Get ready for a rejection.
- Yes, exactly. (chuckling)
- This is what we're saying.
So you complete your internship
and you graduate from
uni, what happens next?
And talk to us about what it
was like to step out of uni
and into the competitive
job market in journalism.
Yeah, well, I was really lucky
in that I went for a cadetship,
and so I had a job lined
up straight after uni.
- Wow.
- So I was already working, my final year,
I was working as what was called a runner,
which doesn't really exist anymore.
- Yeah.
- And now-
- They get coffee, they
get, you know, scripts.
- Correct.
- They just do sort of errands
around the, yeah.
- Yeah, absolute
whatever you need person.
- Uh-huh, yep.
- And it was a great job.
And then I suppose the one above that
is a production assistant.
There's still production assistants today,
but we need less of them
because of technology.
Like, you can just do so much now.
You know, there are even,
most cameras in studios
now are moved mechanically
from the director.
- Mm-hm.
- So, but you know, these
starter jobs still exist,
just unfortunately, not as many.
So I was doing that in my
final year of university
about three days a week.
And that was really hard because I was-
- It was at the ABC?
- Yeah.
And so I would work
about six hours at night,
so I'd study in the day, work there.
- Yeah.
- Yeah, it was-
- Burning the candle
at both ends a little?
- Yes, yes.
I do remember talking to like,
doing my final year project,
which was kind of like a mini thesis,
and just bursting into tears-
- Wow.
- with my like supervisor.
And she was lovely, but just being,
yeah, I was clearly stressed
and working myself too much,
which is a problem I have. (laughing)
- Mm-hmm, stop bragging.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, (chuckling) it's not a good thing.
I wouldn't recommend it.
- Yeah.
yeah, so I sat for the cadetship exam,
and it's a bit of a process.
- Yeah, can you just illustrate a broadly?
It is quite the event.
Like, it's sort of like a multi-stage,
at least the ones I've heard about,
like kind of, you know-
- Yeah. (chuckling)
- stage one, stage two,
and they're all sort of like little tasks,
little assignments, little
pressure testing kind of things.
- Well, it was quite a while ago,
so it may well have changed, you know.
But the first one was an exam.
And so you like went to a venue -
- Wow.
- and sat down
and did this exam.
And it was like general
knowledge, questions about, yeah,
just general knowledge
about the news, sport,
just geography, the world.
And then like little
writing exercises, you know,
write a three-sentence radio news story,
write a, you know, with
exam time pressures.
And so that was first-
- Your time starts now.
- Yeah. (chuckling)
- My goodness.
That was the first one, yeah.
Or actually, no, the first
one was an application
where, yeah, you provide
all of that stuff, I think.
So I can't remember.
There was an application,
like a lengthy application,
an exam, and then there was
an interview at some point.
And there might have been another round
of something as well, but I can't remember
'cause it was like 20 years ago.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- Nearly 20 years ago.
- But you got in.
- I got in, yeah.
- And you knew before you finished uni.
- Yeah, I did.
- Before you graduated.
That's really, really cool.
- Must have been around then.
Yeah, it was the end of the year.
Yeah, I was super excited,
but I knew that I had
to move to Melbourne,
because it's like a national pool.
And there were five of
us that year from Sydney.
And so they kept one in Sydney,
and I think they moved me to Melbourne
because I said that I
loved theatre and the arts.
And that's why I think.
(Dom chuckling)
And it to me,
like this like-
- Melbourne.
- Yeah. It's defined my life.
Like, where I live now, where home is,
it wouldn't have happened
if someone in that room-
- Isn't that incredible?
- sent me to Melbourne.
In my head I thought,
"Oh cool, I'll be in Melbourne for a year,
and then I'll come back
to Sydney." (chuckles)
That didn't happen.
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
- Well, yeah, so you moved interstate,
and you'd have to move, how
quickly do you have to move?
- Well, I started in February,
so I would've finished uni in November.
I must have found out
around November, December.
And then I started my job in February.
So I had a few months, yeah.
- And did they help you?
Like, did you have to find a place to live
and all that stuff-
- I found-
- on your own?
- Yeah, I had to find a place
to live.
They paid for my stuff to get moved down,
but I had to, yeah, pack all that up,
and yeah, find a place to live.
I only knew one person in Melbourne,
which was a friend of a
friend who I'd met once.
- Oh my goodness.
- And her name is Jane,
and she's the most beautiful
person in the world,
and we're great friends today.
'Cause I stayed with her
for like the first week,
she'd only met me once,
and she drove me around to
all of my house viewings.
We had the Melways on the lap
before the days of GPS.
(Dom chuckling)
And yeah, we became great friends.
And I'll always be forever
grateful to her for that.
- Yeah, wow, what an experience
to get all that, you know,
move your whole life over, at what,
like 21 or something like that?
- Yeah, was 21.
- Early 20s.
- 21.
- Incredible.
So you ended up working
at the ABC in the end
for about what, 10 years or something?
- Yeah.
- Can you take us through
sort of the highlights
of what you did there?
You did your cadetship.
- Yeah, I did my cadetship in Melbourne,
and then they like to send
you to the country somewhere.
- Mm-hmm.
- Went to Bendigo, which was great.
And again-
- Lovely.
- you know, if anyone's
thinking about journalism,
the cadetships, there's
not that many of them,
and there's less and less these days.
But if you can get a gig in the country,
like on a country paper or
radio station, go there.
'Cause in the country, you know,
you really have to sink or swim.
You'll cover anything and everything.
Big stories happen in the country.
Yes, not every day, but I
promise you they do happen,
and then you'll get it.
So I reckon I really got more,
a bigger bite of the cherry
when I went to Bendigo than
that first year as a cadet,
where you're sort of generally
getting the smaller story,
so the whatever.
You go to Bendigo, if
it happens in Bendigo,
it's yours.
- It's your own.
- Yeah, so that was a great experience.
And then got a job back
in Melbourne about a year,
a little after, a year
later, in radio and TV.
And you know, it's funny looking back
'cause we were the first cadets trained
in both radio and TV.
So we were multi-platform
journalists, which just seems so-
- Ooh!
- Yeah, like today-
- And now today,
it's like, "Ugh, yeah, duh."
- Of course. (chuckling)
- That's really interesting.
- Yeah.
- And was there one that you gravitated to
more than the other?
'Cause you mentioned radio before.
- Yeah, ugh, radio I've always loved,
like, I've loved the theatre of the mind.
Like, you have to think
about not having the vision,
but then I love TV too.
- Yeah, you get to paint
a picture.
- Yeah, because then you're like,
you lead with the vision first.
- Mm-hmm.
- So you've gotta switch
your brain and go,
"What's my best picture?"
Start with that. And you write to that.
- Mm-hmm.
- So I enjoyed that.
There's, I suppose I like
the freedom of radio,
like you didn't need in TV,
or you're waiting on pictures,
you've gotta physically go there
or get sent the pictures from somewhere.
You're always like piecing it together.
- It's almost like double the work
in some ways.
(Kirsten sighs)
- Like more than double.
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
- You're editing.
Yeah, you're literally
editing audio and visual
and pairing it together and-
- Yeah.
- Yeah, yeah.
- But it's still super powerful.
So I can't pick a winner.
Oh, look, probably radio overall,
but yeah-
- (chuckles) There we have it.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
(both chuckling)
But yeah, it was funny
back then, it was like,
"Oh, you can do radio and TV."
And they had to like train
up the old, you know,
"I only do TV."
And there were some people
who were really rusted on
as TV reporters and rusted on radio.
But of course now, that's all changed.
And yeah, then we started doing online.
I didn't start doing online
articles for years later, yeah,
but I loved it.
And I loved having like more
space to tell the story.
- Totally.
Yeah, that no longer are there the set,
you know, bulletins or shows.
And like, what are some
of the memorable stories
that you covered in this time?
- Yeah, there was a lot.
Probably Jill Meagher is-
- Oh my goodness, yeah.
- yeah, the saddest one
that I'll always remember.
And I mean, she worked at the ABC,
so she worked-
- That's right.
- on the floor below me.
And I'd never really met her.
I remember standing next to
her in a queue at the, like,
you know, waiting for
a coffee at the cafe.
But yeah, I covered all
of that from God to woe,
from when she was first missing.
And you know,
I just remember how shell-shocked
everyone was at the ABC,
and also all of the commercials.
Like, you know, you'd be
hanging out there with 9, 10,
you know, they were all there obviously,
and they were all like, "Oh,
this is awful. We're so sorry.
Gosh, we hope, you know,
hope she gets found."
And then, of course, you
know, we find out the worst.
And when police released,
they had the footage of her
walking along the street,
and yeah, and to when
the killer was in court,
you know, for the first
time, that first appearance.
And yeah, I always just remember
her amazingly stoic husband
you know, in that moment.
Yeah, but it, like even now you
can see I get sort of teary,
'cause it was just horrible
and so real, and yeah.
- Yeah, that would've been
a very challenging thing to cover,
particularly with the
sensitivity in that newsroom,
and yeah.
- Mm.
And I was the same age as her, you know,
maybe two or three years younger.
- Yeah.
- So you just,
it's like-
- Could've been anyone.
- could've been me.
It was that kind of, ugh.
- Yeah.
- And just the impact on her family.
And we made, I remember the
ABC made a diary, you know,
that we could all write in
to give to her husband and family.
So yeah, like I've never
met him, but I just,
yeah, just remember him
so vividly from that time,
and how, yeah, how stoic
and amazing he was.
And I can't imagine, yeah,
what that must have been like.
- Yeah.
So moving on from the ABC a little bit,
when does Deakin come
into the picture for you?
- Yeah.
- I think you, were you doing
your honours here or something?
Paint the picture for us.
- So Deakin University came into view
when I moved to South West Victoria.
So I had always thought about
doing extra study later on.
I wouldn't have had any time
when I was working in
the newsroom, you know,
generally working 10 to 12-hour days.
But then I moved to Southwest Victoria
because I met my husband, who's a farmer.
So I met him in Melbourne
and ended up moving out to a
little town called Caramut.
So we're on a sheep cropping
and cattle property there.
And I, yeah, was working
in Warrnambool at the ABC,
at the radio station there,
just sort of on these
sort of short secondments.
My job was still actually
technically in Melbourne,
and that was good, but was like,
"Oh, this could be an opportunity
to maybe do a bit more
study or maybe teach."
So before I did my honours,
I actually started teaching at Deakin.
So I just at random-
- Right.
- reached out to a couple
of Deakin University journalism scholars,
and they used to teach journalism
at the Warrnambool campus then.
- And so I reached out
to Professor Kristy Hess.
She was just my doctor,
I think at that time.
- Kristy?
- Yeah, she's a legend, and my
supervisor for my PhD still.
- Kristy?
- Yeah.
(both chuckling)
- Hello.
- And yeah, she replied.
So, which was great.
We met up for a coffee.
And yeah, I eventually started teaching
media law and ethics, which was great.
And radio, like, radio
news. Ah, that was great.
And then a year or two later, I thought,
"Yeah, I'll do my honours."
And I was able, I had a child,
and I was on long service
leave from work, so I thought,
"Oh, I'll do my honours."
And I did it over two years, actually,
'cause I had a child in the middle there.
And like the flexibility of Deakin
and being able to do it from home,
being able to like research from home.
- Mm-hmm.
- Like, I don't know,
if the younger generation
realises just how amazing this is.
Like when I was at Uni
in Sydney-
- It didn't used to be
like this.
- Exactly!
(Dom chuckling)
I remember spending
all of my money, my 10 cent coins,
photocopying books and borrowing books,
and it would take forever to like access
the information.
- You'd just live
in the library.
- Yes.
- And you'd have to get it all done-
- Yes, you'd be looking at your-
- and then lug it out.
- You're going,
"Oh gosh, gotta get that
train, that last train,"
and yeah, trying to, you know,
and then you'd get home, you'd
realised you'd printed off,
you know, only half of it.
Or you go, "Oh, that. I've just wasted $4
on something that
(chuckles) is irrelevant."
But now you can access it
all online. It's amazing.
- Yeah, it's crazy. It's incredible.
And so you start doing that, and yeah,
again, you had kids during this time?
- Just one, yeah.
- Just one, all right.
And so when do you then
move on to the PhD?
- Yeah, it took a bit of time.
So it took me two years to
do a, yeah, one-year degree,
but like just with that
flexibility, I was doing part-time.
- Yeah.
- And then I took a break
and then I finished it off.
And I really enjoyed
that process of doing it.
And again, meeting Kristy,
she kind of told me about
the pathway of doing a PhD.
She said, you know, "You can
do an honours and then do PhD.
And an honours is, you know, sort of less,
and it's also like a mini PhD,
so you'll learn the skills," and yeah.
So then I had a few years,
I thought I just needed a
bit of a break from study,
and I'd then I had another child,
so I didn't start my PhD
again until three years ago.
So I finished my honours
in 2020 just to start.
And then, yeah, '23, I
must have started my PhD.
So I ended up having probably,
I was intending to have
like one or two years break,
a little bit longer, but that's okay.
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
- Life happens.
- Exactly, I'm not in a rush, like.
- Yeah.
- And I know that I am
interested in academia
and I think I'll always work
in academia in some sense,
but I also work in industry
and love doing both.
So I don't know if I'm on that trajectory
to be a professor.
Probably not. I don't know.
- Mm-hmm.
- I'll have a fancy
doctor title, hopefully,
when I finish this PhD.
But I think,
(Dom chuckling)
yeah, I'm still a big
question mark over that.
- Yeah. More to come.
- Yeah. (chuckles)
- So, what is your PhD covering?
- Podcasting, would you believe,
is one major thing.
- Oh.
- But it's local news sustainability
in rural and regional Australia
is its overarching theme.
So it's part of an Australian
research council project,
which is looking at
local news sustainability
and which is amazing to be part of.
Like, I'm just like this little baby PhD
that's part of this
great big broader project
with lots of other professors
and people doing some great work.
But I'm specifically looking
at how news podcasting,
or podcast journalism, can be used
in rural and regional Australia.
- Mm.
- Yeah, particularly because
we're in this, (sighs)
I guess, news in local
areas is becoming diminished
I guess, news in local
areas is becoming diminished
because the business model's broken.
You know, a lot of local
newspapers have shut down.
- Yes.
- Yeah,
because they're just-
- Hundreds.
- no longer viable.
All the money essentially is
going to Facebook, Google,
you know, your big tech giants.
And the advertising
money that used to flow
to the paper from the local community
is just flowing to these big tech giants.
And no one has yet sort of
cracked a way to make it work.
You know, there are larger outlets
who are providing local news,
but probably not to the same level
or standard that those
local newspapers did.
So yeah, I'm looking at podcasting
and as a way of understanding that,
but also, the power of conversation
that podcasting enables,
and how that's kind of changed
our notion of journalism
and what is journalism.
and what is journalism.
You know, objectivity was
king when I was starting out,
and you know, everything
had a certain format.
You know, the radio news,
that this is how it was.
You had, it was three lines
in a grab or a voicer,
which is, you know, and
it's still like that
for the radio news bulletin.
But the rise of podcasting, you know,
has just unlocked another way
of understanding the world
and using journalism, which, yeah,
is something that I'm looking into.
'Cause it's, like it's murky.
It's kind of-
- Well, yeah, and I guess
my question is really,
when you say conversation,
are we talking about,
say, the aesthetic almost of conversation?
That kind of conversational,
digestible way
to receive information?
Or are we talking about, you
know, hot takes on the news?
Or what do you mean when you say that?
- Yeah, so probably more
so that that conversation
of just the dynamic between
two, or maybe more people,
that it's a bit more casual, less formal.
- Mm.
- Almost, like you said,
yeah, more easily digestible.
We've got a problem of news
avoidance at the moment.
And this is a more accessible
way for many people.
So, I mean, you're right in
that a lot of news podcasts
are two people talking about the news.
And that's certainly one
way of receiving the news,
is listen to people talk about it.
But another is the actual
interview with someone
who has information about
something that is newsworthy
or knowledge or-
- Mm.
- And that's an interesting one.
And like, there's some academics
called Newman and Gallo
who have classified news
journalism podcasts.
And so they've got like that
20, 30 minute deep dive chat.
- Mm-hmm.
- So if you listen to say
like, "ABC News Daily,"
that would be it, you pick a topic.
And it's great.
I love listening to these
'cause they just give me a
good overview of something
when I'm ready for it.
(Kirsten laughing)
- Yes.
- But then there's
also, the extended chat,
and interestingly,
these academics include,
say, the "Joe Rogan Show" as part of that.
- Yeah.
- And, you know, he certainly
wouldn't be objective,
but this notion of objectivity
is something that I think
isn't perhaps as important
as it used to be.
And whether that's a good or
a bad thing, I'm not sure.
But I don't think objectivity
has never really been achievable, right?
No one's objective.
- Mm-hmm.
- You can try to be as
objective as possible
or follow steps to try to be,
but we all come from our own experiences
and biases and interests.
- Absolutely.
Even, and it goes on
down the line as well,
even the editor that's
putting the running order
of something together.
- Yeah.
- And you're kinda like,
"Well, we are making a choice
as to what the most important
thing to know today is,"
right?
- Exactly.
- Yeah.
So, yeah, but then, you know, you've got,
there are plenty of people in podcast land
who make no effort to be objective.
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
Like, and they they are quite
politically left or right
or whatever, and they
don't apologise for it.
And it's kind of an interesting
dynamic what's happening.
- Yeah, very interesting.
And I guess, where is
that sort of leading you
in your journey with media at the moment?
Are you still working across
multiple, you know, outlets
as well as doing your course
and as well as raising kids?
- (chuckles) Yeah, so I am
working just a little bit,
so obviously doing my PhD,
I produce podcasts myself,
so I've got my own,
which is called "Ducks on the Pond,"
which is for rural women.
I started that back in
2021, and it's, yeah,
something that I love to do.
So it's a podcast that just,
we talk about anything and everything
just according to what it's
like to be a rural woman.
So we talk about business,
we talk about farming,
we talk about mental
health, all sorts of things.
Yeah, and it's going strong.
So I'm still doing that.
And I make the odd podcast
for people as well,
like for organisations.
- Oh, okay.
- Yeah.
- Yeah, so you're a podcaster for hire,
or a producer for hire almost?
- Yes, yes, sort of whatever
slot you need me to be.
Yeah.
- Yeah, nice.
And that's working well.
And I work casually still
for the ABC as a presenter,
so I fill in on the
conversation hour at the moment.
- Oh, nice.
- Yeah.
- Wow, so you've still
got a nice little menu
of different journalism experiences.
- Yeah.
And look, I'm just, you know,
I'm on the farm as well,
and there's sort of
responsibilities there.
- Yeah, incredible.
Yeah,
but my husband does like a
lot of the on-farm stuff,
that's not me so much. (chuckles)
- So your life today and living on a farm,
you know, studying, doing a PhD,
when you look back at
finishing Year 12, (chuckling)
was this part of the plan?
- No. Well, podcasts
didn't exist then, for one.
I don't know
that definitely the farm
wasn't part of the plan.
I probably would've thought
I'd be a foreign
correspondent or something.
(both chuckling)
- Yeah, as every journalist does
when they enter their course.
- That's right.
(chuckles) And that didn't happen.
But this is an adventure
all the same, I think,
being on a farm and
being open to what life,
you know, offers to you
as well as what you are striving for.
And perhaps that's, you
know, a big lesson for me.
Being so kind of driven outta the gate,
you also kind of need to look at
what the universe is
perhaps offering you too.
And if it's not something
that's in your plan,
doesn't mean that you should dismiss it.
You should actually look at it, you know,
what opportunities does it provide?
What, yeah.
So it was a hard thing to kind of,
I knew that my career
would be very different
to move to the farm, but, you
know, look, I was in love,
what was I supposed to do?
(Kirsten chuckling)
- That's so romantic.
- It is.
I made my husband get
the internet, though.
Like, he had a really
bad internet connection.
This was before the NBN.
- Uh-huh.
- So he kindly did all
sorts of strange, you know,
rigging up something to the roof
and whatever, you know.
(Dom chuckling)
I said, "I'm not moving
until we get the internet."
So he did that.
And I feel like I just kind of was like,
"You know what, I'll
figure it out as I go."
You know, I knew that I'd have kids,
and I just would figure
it out as I would go.
And technology has just
been such a blessing for me.
- Yeah, and it's really like evolved,
even internet connections
and the options-
- Huge!
- that you have to connect
has changed so much
even in the last like five years.
- Yeah, it's meant that
I can work from home.
And then, COVID, as
horrendous as that was-
- Oh wow, yeah.
- it kind of-
- Changed the culture around work.
- Exactly, changed the
whole culture, so that I,
you know, I could do all
those things already at home,
but now it's just opened up
all of these organisations.
Mind you, Deakin was ahead
of the game, you know?
- Oh yes, that was their thing, right?
- Yeah.
- Flexibility
and learning, you know, where
you are in a different way,
in a remote way.
- 'Cause I was actually
teaching in Geelong in 2020,
and I think I did two lessons in person,
and then it all switched to online.
But Deakin was already set up,
and I was actually already
teaching a one online course,
so it wasn't too hard to shift.
Had to change some of the assignments
and whatever, the pracs
and, you know. (chuckles)
I remember you'd normally say, you know,
"You can't interview your mom,
or you can't interview
your flatmate," you know.
And then suddenly, we'd be like,
"Well, look, if that's the
only person you're living with,
then, okay, yes, you
can interview your mom."
(both chuckling)
- Are they in your bubble?
- Yeah. (chuckling)
- All right.
- Exactly.
So yeah, it's just been,
like, some of those unexpected
things, like I'm glad I just,
like I took the leap.
And kind of let go of
the control a little bit.
- Yeah, I guess that's the only kind of...
Do you have any extra advice for people?
You've already kind of
given it to new people,
but just when you're so driven,
if you've got a goal in
mind that you wanna reach,
and you're heading into uni
or you're finishing school,
what's your advice for picking
the moment to sort of let go
and let, you know, the
path sort of show itself?
- Mm, I think it's
really great to be driven
when you're young, because
you know, you don't,
you only know so much when you're younger.
- Yeah.
- Like-
- And you think you know-
- Yeah.
- Everything.
- But you don't
all the paths that might come.
But what you can do is get a great skill
or a great expertise in something.
or a great expertise in something.
And then that can take you
in all different unexpected places.
Like, I didn't know that
podcasting was going to exist
when I studied radio.
- Mm-hmm.
- I mean, wow, (chuckles)
now I can do it from home.
That's amazing.
But yeah, so just kind of do
what you love, get that skill,
that qualification, that
ability to contribute.
And, you know, your first
job may not be the dream job.
And I think I am, like I
was just incredibly lucky
that I got that dream job.
It's possible, right?
So that's the first thing,
it's definitely possible.
But there are so many pathways
to get that dream job,
and you might just have to take
a side step to then get in.
But, so I think being goa-
oriented is super important.
And I'm still goal-oriented today.
But yeah, it's once you've got that skill,
then you'll find more doors open
and more opportunities come.
So what would a sustainable,
thriving local news
ecosystem for those areas
look like to you?
- Oh, that's like the
million dollar question.
- Yeah, if you could
just answer that for us,
that'd be great.
- Yeah. (chuckling)
- And we'll just note it
down to make it happen.
- It's kind of like what the ARC,
Australian Research Council
project is looking at.
And so I don't have a
nice, neat answer for you,
but it would be great to have,
you know, local news
that is built by the community it serves
and operated by the community it serves,
that knows its audience.
And rural or regional news
is kind of unique in that,
because the community
is so relatively small,
when you're the journalist,
you really live in the community,
you know the people whilst
you're also reporting on them.
- Yeah.
- You have all these weird ties as well.
So it's kind of,
it's almost a slightly
different form of journalism
that I think happens in metros.
And there's, you know, lots of
people a lot smarter than me
that have written about this already.
And so it's a really special dynamic
in that it serves the population,
in that it serves the population,
in that it, you know,
you want local news to be able to tell you
what the council's doing
and if the council's not doing its job
or doing something bad,
as well as kind of being
that ear on the ground,
that way people connect as well.
So it kind of plays that
dual role of watchdog,
but also community facilitator.
So I wanna see that. And I wanna
see that in a modern sense.
You know, it's traditionally
been the local newspaper,
you know, there are newspapers
that used to be 150 years old
that are all shutting down.
- Yeah.
- But now we're in a world
where there's so much more opportunity,
like podcasting online, digital,
and yet we can't get the
business model, right?
Like there's no way of funding it yet,
unless perhaps we look
at government grants
or industry working together a bit better.
So kind of dropping the competition,
at least for rural and regional areas,
to be able to support each
other and share resources.
So that's another way of doing it.
So yeah, but we need to find
a model that is realistic,
because we do find popping up,
and in my study I'm looking
at podcasting, you know,
and these little news
podcasts have popped up,
and they're often just
kind of independent people
who are really passionate.
A few of them are retired, you know,
retired, one's a retired lawyer,
another's a retired radio broadcaster
who have just started doing it.
So that's these kind of passion things
that really aren't earning any money.
They might get some sponsors,
but it-
- Yeah,
but it's not like sustainable.
- Not sustainable, you know?
So yeah, if we could just find a way.
And same with online,
there's lots of new little
online things popping up.
Some of them have been, you know,
have managed to become sustainable,
but they're often still
on that line of like-
- Yeah, who are they?
Are they checking the facts?
Are they doing the reporting?
- Yeah, but even just like
funding-wise, there's still like,
"Okay, we're sustainable in
that lens, but only just,"
and still really highly reliant
on just like that passionate person or-
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
Or maybe some have like
a wealthy benefactor
that's started it.
So it's just, yeah,
we need something that's
sustainable financially,
but again, serves the local community
for the purposes of that community.
- Yeah, you've mentioned a
lot of little upstarts there
of, you know, a single
person's initiative.
I guess with your experience at the ABC
and now doing podcasting,
and also trying to
explore the format really,
of conversational content
and news delivery,
what's your opinion on, you know,
institutions versus sole proprietor,
entrepreneurs starting things?
Have you found there are
strengths and weaknesses in both
or one's better than the other?
- Yeah, there are definitely strengths
and weaknesses in both.
I think institutional
still has the credibility,
and somewhat rightly so,
as in if you are part of an institution,
there are ways of doing
things that can help,
that give you that credibility
of knowing that this is accurate checked,
you know, as not biassed as possible,
or at least you know, where
they're coming from a bit more.
But that said,
why do we dismiss some of
the independent people?
Like, just because they
don't have that great,
the huge audience or the huge backing,
because technically, we
can do so much on our own.
You can be that one person
who does all of the technical stuff
as well as all of the written stuff.
- Yeah.
- So that's, I mean,
and that's what I'm doing in my research,
in that, like I, that I know
of, and the only person so far,
that is treating all of these
podcasts as news podcasts.
You know, whether you're an independent,
whether you've kind of sprung
out of a local newspaper
or you've come out of the ABC
or Southern Cross Austereo,
you know, you're providing
news in a podcast format,
you're kind of on that level
equal, even though, yeah,
there might be big differences
in production quality
or audience numbers.
Although interestingly,
there's not that much
difference in audience numbers.
- Well, yeah.
- Not as much as you'd think.
- Yeah, interesting.
- Mm.
- And there's all the
potential in the world
for something to hit
and people can find it-
- Exactly.
- and build its own audience.
- It's rare, but it can happen.
You could be the next Joe Rogan.
- You could be,
(Kirsten laughing)
and that's what we're all aiming for.
And I guess, finally, what do you hope
that people understand about
the power of conversation
as a tool for connection and change?
- Mm, I think there, we
often hear that phrase,
"the art of conversation."
And in this world of social media,
we kind of use conversation
or the word conversation
in ways that aren't conversation.
Like, you know, we'll say
join the conversation,
but it's really just texting in
or writing a comment on an article.
But it's not that real two-way interaction
that is so nice where, you
know, you're both invested,
and you're both willing
to learn from each other.
So, you know, a good conversation
is where you are both asking questions,
are both giving of yourselves.
And it's really interesting
in an interaction like this, right?
I'd say this is a conversation,
but you're clearly the interviewer,
and I'm the interviewee,
but you're still giving of yourself.
- Mm-hmm, yeah.
- Yeah,
and it's an interesting thing
in like podcast newsland,
because a lot of the
traditional news journalists
are telling me, like, they
find that hard of going,
"Oh gosh, you know, I have to feel safe
to give an anecdote about myself," or-
- Yeah, without coming off as biassed
or revealing too much,
or making it about you.
- Exactly.
So it is a weird kind of,
almost like a fake conversation
in that if we were just
sitting down having a coffee-
- Simulated.
- Yeah. (chuckles)
Well, I would be asking
you some questions back.
- Yeah, yeah.
(Kirsten chuckling)
How rude and weird
would it be if I didn't?
But podcasting is really harnessing
But podcasting is really harnessing
what's good about conversation
in that relational kind of aspect,
the storytelling that
comes with a conversation,
the ability to just follow
the train of thought,
to ask those questions
that are kind of a little bit off the,
you know, off the list.
So yeah, and I just think it's so powerful
because you actually
create a genuine connection
with someone.
- Yeah, it's like authentic.
- Yeah.
- It feels authentic.
- It feels authentic. And I think it is.
And with the people, you know,
particularly the independent
podcasters I've interviewed,
they talk about, you know,
becoming friends with someone
after doing an hour podcast
or if you see them down the
street, you're gonna say hello.
Like, you've just got their life story.
Like, yeah.
- Mm-hm, mmm.
Like, yeah.
- Mm-hm, mmm.
- So it's, and another
interesting thing is,
for me, as someone in media,
you know, the interview
used to be something you did
to feed into the article or the piece
that you were creating.
- Yep, story.
- Whereas now with podcasting,
it's no longer a byproduct.
It's the actual-
- It's the product.
It's the product.
- Yeah.
- It's the artefact.
And so you, in this conversation,
are the ones shaping it.
You're shaping the narrative, you know,
but you're making it seem
like we're just having a chat.
But I know what you're doing.
You are shaping the narrative.
Beautifully done, by the way.
(both chuckling)
- Did we get that?
- Yeah. (chuckling)
And kind of using that, yeah,
the art of conversation.
And it's, I mean, it's a
wonderful thing if you can,
I think it's a skill that
anyone can learn, though.
You know, some people kind of think,
"Oh, I'm not, I'm not
good," or "I'm just not,"
you can learn it.
- Yeah, good advice.
- So across all your work,
podcasting, research,
regional storytelling, what
impact do you hope to have
on rural Australia's.
The impact I think would
be for rural people
to tell their own story more.
So I feel like that's
what I'm trying to enable
in whether that's my industry work,
where I'm helping other
people create a podcast,
or in my research where, you
know, we're looking at avenues
to make it easier or to get funding for,
or, you know, to set up their own thing.
'Cause I think, you know, that's my worry,
is that we're becoming increasingly
urbanised as a country.
And then that divide
between rural and urban
can potentially get bigger
as more and more people
don't have that connection
with rural Australia,
because their whole family's
always been in the city
or they've migrated to a city.
We need to know where our food comes from.
We need to know what it's
like to live rurally.
And I love to live in a
country area, but you know,
getting into a doctor
right now is really hard.
Like, you know, you generally
have to wait three months.
- Wow.
- Yeah.
So you have to just go to emergency
if there's something wrong.
You know, there's just struggle,
like different struggles
that happen in the country.
And it might not get picked up by metros
until it's really dire.
Or if it is picked up,
the nuance of the conversation
may not be picked up.
- Mm, and it's so much easier
to sort of like have those two audiences
completely in their own bubbles
with the way that the media landscape is.
- Absolutely.
- Yeah.
I've got some quick
wrap up questions here.
- Yeah.
- So what's your favourite
show on iview at the moment?
- Oh, on ABC iview, mm,
probably "Insiders."
(both laughing)
- Great answer. Great answer. Correct.
- I do love "Insiders" still.
And I sometimes miss
it on Sunday mornings,
so I love catching up.
- You can catch up.
Yeah.
- Yeah.
- Absolutely.
What's one thing
that you wish people knew
more about agriculture?
- That, ooh, that's a good one.
That the people in agriculture
really love what they do
and care about the food that they produce.
They feel proud of what
they do, and so they should,
and sometimes they feel that
the city don't understand that.
And I just wish that
both sides could see it
a little bit clearer.
You know, like agriculture is something
that's constantly changing and trying to,
at the moment, there's a lot of technology
that's being used to change things.
There's probably more pressure
around sustainability, and rightly so.
And that's good.
And I think most people
are genuinely trying
within the kind of
realm that they operate.
And I'd like other people
to know that on the whole,
you know, farmers are often
price takers not setters.
So, so much is beholden to.
Yeah, the weather, the global markets,
and just the industry
structures that already exist.
So it's hard for a farmer
to just suddenly change
the way that they're doing something.
And if they do change like dramatically,
they change everything,
then you could lose your entire
money for the year or farm.
So change has to be incremental.
So there's a lot of exciting
stuff happening in agriculture,
and I love it.
I find it endlessly interesting,
but I just wish, yeah,
that people perhaps in the city
understood how it works a little bit more.
And I understand why you don't,
because I was from the city,
I had no contact with farming,
so I didn't know what a farm looked like.
Like, well, like I knew
what one looked like,
but a commercial operation,
I wouldn't have known how that worked.
And a lot of people are like that.
- Yeah, we could all do
with a better understanding,
I think, of that world.
- Yeah, and it goes both ways,
you know.
People in the country,
if you've kind of grown up their
third or fourth generation,
to assume that someone from the
city would know such things,
I think is unfair as well.
Like, I really hate when I watch a show,
like I love "Farmer Wants
a Wife," love that show,
and watch it religiously, but
I cringe and feel horrible
every time they make the
women run around chasing sheep
when they've never done it before,
as if they should know how to do it.
Why would they know how to do it?
We should get the farmer
into wherever those women are working
and get them to do their job.
That's ridiculous.
- Yeah, yeah.
- Anyway.
- Who knew farmers want a wife?
- Yeah.
- Farmer wants a wife,
not highly factual
to what-
- Yeah, I know. (chuckles)
to what they're trying to do.
- We need more
female farmers too.
Like, to be the, you
know, the farmer that-
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
- Yeah, we're gonna even it out.
- Even it out a bit, yeah.
- Yeah, next PhD.
(Kirsten chuckling)
Finally, well you’re on ABC news breakfast
quite a lot.
I guess, who's your favourite
presenter over the years?
There you go, Virginia
Trioli. Michael Rowland.
- Yeah. Oh, that's mean.
(both chuckling)
They're all lovely. No,
and that's true, they are.
Look, Michael Rowland is
just, yeah, stand-up guy.
Yeah, Lisa Millar is great as well.
And look, some of them,
I didn't know as well
because I may not have
worked with them as much.
But yeah, look, I'll give
Michael the number one spot.
Really caring, smart guy.
- Yeah, there you go, Michael.
Longtime viewer, I'm sure.
- Yeah. (chuckles)
- Congrats.
- Oh, and probably also
because my children love him.
I don't know why, they
just took a shining to him
at a really young age.
And then when Michael said he
was leaving "News Breakfast,"
my youngest was like,
was devastated, yeah.
- Awww.
- You are missed.
- He's like,
"I didn't know anyone else," you know.
- Awww.
(Kirsten laughing)
Well, that's nice.
That's, well, yeah, if your kids like him,
that's a really good endorsement.
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
Well, Kirsten Dis, nope,
(chuckles) Kirsten Diprose,
thank you so much for coming
on "Stories of Wonder."
- Oh, thank you so much for
having me. It's been fun.