Travis shares his thoughts on the eight keystones of culture.
Join Derek Hudson as he explores Essential Dynamics, a framework for approaching the challenges facing people and organizations. Consider your Quest!
Welcome to the Essential Dynamics podcast. I'm Derek Hudson. Essential Dynamics is a framework I've been working on to help us work through our trickiest opportunities. And in this podcast, we test the concepts of essential dynamics through deep conversations with interesting people, and I'm delighted to have Travis Anderson back on for another episode. Travis is a very interesting person.
Derek:We had a great conversation about culture and football at our last, last meeting, and we're backed back for more. Travis, thanks for coming back on.
Travis:Excited to be here again.
Derek:So so Travis, we we talked about the importance of culture. We talked about the word that I was fixated on energy, and how culture, can give you access to energy. One of the phrases, you use is culture by design as opposed to culture by default.
Travis:Yeah.
Derek:So you're every organization has a culture. So if you didn't design it, then it's by default. If you if you were the leader of an organization, if you were a new leader of a organization that had a problematic culture, what would be some of the things you'd wanna include in your design of that culture?
Travis:You know, I, that's a great question because, that's a question I've been thinking about and talking about and researching for the last thirty years. And the thing I love about it is there's no cookbook answers. But what I have found is is there's there's literally, eight keystones of culture, what I like to call, foundational that that I think every effective culture one way or another, needs to be aware of in order to truly create that sense of purpose, right, and that sense of connection, that sense of unity that I talked about in our last, episode. And and I'll just go over I'll I'll just tell them really quickly and just spend a little time on the first couple, because we don't have time to go through them all. But I I just wanna give you a brief overview because they're they're fascinating to me because they're they these these keystones and culture not only work in companies, not only in sports teams, but they also work in families.
Travis:Whenever you have two or more people. Right? Whenever you even have a, you know, a marriage, any any group, any partnership, two or more people, these keystones and being aware of them and using them to build culture can be extremely effective. The first thing is is to have a sense of clarity around a cause. And what I mean by clarity around a cause is I'm talking about a deep seated sense of clarity around purpose and what it is that you're about.
Travis:What is it that that that really, gets you up in the morning? Right? And and what is it that you can rally around? Like we talked about in our in our last session, you know, it was bigger than football with University of Utah. It's about we're doing this.
Travis:We're creating a connection. We are creating excellence together. Right? That's what it's about, and creating a strong bond of brotherhood. They they consider themselves family.
Travis:And and that's an overarching cause. Right? That's an overarching sense of of clarity around purpose and
Derek:Sir, I I I like your alliteration, clarity around cause.
Travis:Yeah.
Derek:But, purpose is a good word too.
Travis:Oh, really. No. Absolutely. I and I think they're pretty much the same. The only thing that's different about cause is is it it's it it's in my mind, even a deeper iteration of of what a purpose is.
Travis:Sometimes you think of purpose is is just an overall long term objective, but cause is something that burns in your heart.
Derek:Sure. And and, yeah, a a deep purpose that some so something that means something and and probably that means something for somebody else.
Travis:Yes. Absolutely. And quite honestly, that's exactly right. That that it's not about you. It's about us.
Travis:That's the thing I love about a cause, and that's why it can be applied in your in your families and in companies and in sports. What's interesting too, I'll get I'll get I'll go over the other six really quickly. You have seven, and then we'll come back and talk about which whatever anyone you want. But the second one is is creating, common language and using common language slash shared activities. You cannot create a sense of of teamwork or a sense of of togetherness without doing things together and without having common language.
Derek:Yeah.
Travis:And so number two is having common language. Number three is is stories. People don't realize that that intentionally sharing stories is one of the most powerful ways you build culture. And and, again, we can go in-depth with that, but just know that those personal stories is what people remember. You can have all kinds of processes, and you can have all kinds of words, and you can have all kinds of statistics and analysis, but I tell you what people remember are stories.
Travis:Right? So number three, your stories. Number four are symbols. Symbols, good example of those are, you know, you take football, for example. So many symbols in football.
Travis:And you have a team. You got the Utes. Right? You have a logo, University of Utah Utes. And that's a powerful one because they have an incredible partnership with the Ute tribe.
Travis:And and they're very proud of that because there's certain beliefs of the Ute Indian tribe, native Indians, and that that they prescribe, you know, that they that they live up to. And then, of course, where would I keep you without the swoosh? Where would apple be without the apple?
Derek:Yeah.
Travis:You know, I'm just a big believer that symbols are so powerful, not only in terms of logos, but so many other things that that that can make a difference. In addition to symbols, then you have, you have traditions. Right? You have traditions. And and and one good example of tradition is is I work with a lot of of, steel manufacturing and erection, one in particular, erection company.
Travis:And one of the traditions that they have is a topping off party after they built, you know, a 60 story hotel in in Las Vegas or wherever, and they also built Los Angeles Rams Stadium and whatever else. The last being, the highest being, is is that they they paint it white, and they have a little Christmas tree on one side, and we don't have time to go into that. But there's a symbol and a purpose for that. An American flag on the other, and it's white, and everyone signs their name for the people that were on that team. Have you are you familiar with that?
Derek:No. But I I get the value of everyone signing their name, and I've been involved in
Travis:That's an
Derek:amazing different ceremonies like that. Yeah.
Travis:Traditions that that that bring people together, whereas in families or companies or, you know, in sports, whatever. I mean, ball games are traditions. You know? There's just so many traditions that have been going back for hundreds of years. So then the next one is you've got, you have rituals slash norms.
Travis:Ritual slash team norms and company norms. And and and and rituals are are are basic things that you get into habits or routines or, you know, certain like, one of the things I really highlight for people, you need to do, quarterly retreats. If you really are are serious about cultures, and sometimes that's for the entire company, sometimes it's for certain parts of the company, whatever it is, but you need to get people together in person. You know? I I I know that technology is great, and you can use a lot of other, digital kinds of things, but I still big believer there's nothing like an old fashioned conversation with a group of people.
Travis:Right? So
Derek:And you and your preference would be around a campfire if you could
Travis:Absolutely. Outside. I love the outdoors. Right? Because that's where that's where peep when you go outside, the walls come down.
Travis:Yeah. And I love doing, things all the way from climbing Mount Kilimanjaro to the group of executives there, to to ropes courses, to to to, high performing, Mandarin school, high performance driving. I mean, it's just having adventures together. It goes back to what I said earlier about those shared activities slash common language. And so in addition to that, there's two others that are really important that people often forget about.
Travis:And one is what I like to call creating psychological safe space. You gotta create psychological safe space for people to be themselves. Because if you don't create that psychological safe space, then people can't really connect. And when you do that, the last I think this is the last one. The the last keystone is what I call deep human connection.
Travis:And the only way to create deep human connection is do what I've all those other keystones create that, but deep human connection goes another step further and that is you really have dialogue and conversations that come from the heart, not just ahead. Mhmm. Those are some keystones that that I find particularly useful and helpful to keep in mind if you wanna build a culture is you have that as a checklist. You know? What are our symbols?
Travis:Right? What what are we what are we doing to create opportunities for for people to do have traditions and some and rituals and and norms that you create. Right? And and and those common bonds and how if you just use those keystones, that's one of the best places to start. But I think you have to start at the very top, which is to have a a true cause.
Derek:A true cause. Yeah. Actually, there's another reference to that. Simon Sinek calls it the just cause. You have to have a just cause.
Travis:Interesting. Yes.
Derek:And if if people accept it as a just cause. And and then I think what from your football, from the from the Utes football team, I take that sometimes the purpose doesn't have to be the outcome of the organization. It can be the impact on the people involved.
Travis:Absolutely. In fact, that's so interesting. I just, had a dialogue with, Kyle Whittingham about a year ago. I interviewed him for a book I'm writing about, about building culture called the Culture Builders. And, and I said, what's been the most meaningful, the most, meaningful and and valuable aspects of coaching?
Travis:Right? And you'd think it would be the wins, and he didn't say that. He said it's a connection that I've built with these young men, helping them create an experience through where they become they they grow from boys to men and to be able to have a connection with each other that lasts a lifetime.
Derek:Yeah. I was gonna say and I have to think that a coach like that would have a collection of, alumni that that he keeps track of
Travis:Oh, for sure.
Derek:Like, for the rest of their careers. Whatever and and weigh passports.
Travis:No doubt about it. Once you're a you're a youth for life, man. That's the thing that's awesome about it is is that they're all cheering for each other, and it's it's a tribe, man. It it really is. You know, you're a youth, and no pun intended, you know, because it's, it it really is fascinating how tight they all are, of the alumni and everything else.
Travis:And that's what's special about it is is, it really is very unique and and and and and and and pretty, different than where the college world is going right now with with a lot of it's all focused on individual achievement. It's all focused on on on personalities of coaches and that sort of thing. And I I I I just really hope and and, you know, that that there's there's get there's other organizations that can follow the the example they use where they don't they don't get caught up in that. Even though, there's a lot of colleges that pretty much become just little professional teams and they and they and because of the ability to they transfer portal and all that where, you know, players can just move around. It's almost like they're free agents, and and Yeah.
Travis:And it's really and it's really unfortunate. And and Utah is one of the few teams that have very few turnover. They have very, very few people that leave the program. And once they're there, they're there. And I think that's one of the reasons why they've been successful.
Travis:And it's the same thing in companies. Right? They have turnover issues. And if you can build a level of connection where people don't wanna leave, And I have stories upon stories on some companies that I've had a chance to interact with where literally they don't wanna leave because of the of the culture. They just don't.
Derek:Well and we talked last episode about sources of energy, and that's that's gotta be one when people have that deep of a connection and a purpose. I I wanna bounce off some of these, things. But first of all, I was gonna ask you when are you gonna write your book? And then you told me not only that that you're writing the book, but you told me the title of the book.
Travis:Yep.
Derek:So, do you have a target for when that's gonna be done?
Travis:I'm hoping be, be probably midyear next year. Yep.
Derek:That's fantastic. So 2023, listeners watch for Travis Anderson, the Culture Builders, and I'll try and squeeze it on my bookshelf here, my background. I wanna pick up on shared activities.
Travis:Yeah.
Derek:I've been in, a bunch of situations where people say, Well, we're not really performing as a team, or We need a better relationship. And my experience has been the best way to get a relationship or to feel like a team is to do stuff.
Travis:Mhmm.
Derek:And it could be work. In fact, it's probably best that it's work. Yeah. And here's here's the story. It didn't really happen to me.
Derek:It's but it's this is kinda how I feel about it is, you know, I was a little when I was a little kid, we lived in a new neighborhood. And, so there's a new kid moves in, and the moms meet, and and, my mom has this mom over with her kid, and they say, you know, we think you should be friends. And I'm like, that kid looks weird. He talks funny. I'm not interested.
Derek:Like, why would he be my friend? But, you know, mom says you have to be friends. And so you can sit and stare at each other, and that's only gonna go so far. So you go in the backyard and you say, you know, I've always wanted to build a tree for it in this tree. And the kid says, my dad just built a fence.
Derek:I got boards. And away you go, and in fifteen minutes, you're friends.
Travis:Yep. Absolutely.
Derek:But when under your mom's supervision to stare at each other and try and find common ground is impossible. And and I really have felt so many times in professional settings, particularly when I was in the public service, and we were talking about, relationship between different organizations.
Travis:Yeah.
Derek:So different corporations, kind of a common interest, and we're supposed to work together. And I'm like, we just have to work together. Like, there's no we we're not gonna whiteboard this thing out. We're just gonna do it or it's not gonna happen. Do you agree with that?
Travis:%. You know, it's like, I you've gotta have a vehicle to create that sense of teamwork. Right? You you've gotta have you do things together. That's why I love sports is you're you're doing stuff together, not just during the games, it's in the practices.
Travis:Right? But it's together, and you can't do it. You can't do it on your own. You gotta develop your own personal skills, but then you gotta figure out how to work together, and you need to be able to have tangible ways of doing that. And to be honest with you, I think the physical kinds of things can make a huge impact.
Travis:You know? That's why I love doing these outdoor types of retreats because you're actually doing stuff together. Right? We just did one of the Bear Lake couple weeks couple three weeks ago, and, it was a group of the top of a group of 12 top leaders of this organization, and we spent tons of time, you know, working through some clarifying their vision and talking about, you know, business processes and such. But we all I always figure out how to involve different activities.
Travis:Again, what's the ropes course, whatever? Well, the winter is kinda tough. You know? You got Bear Lake. There's two two feet of snow out there, and, you know, we've done all kinds of crazy stuff like build snow caves and what have you.
Travis:But this time, we got real creative. We end up the last event for everybody, including three women, was to do a polar plunge. And and we had and we had this Bear Lake. It was, like, 15 degrees, and and and we had a couple of luckily, a couple of marines. I was part of their executive team from way back, but they went back into their marine mentality because we didn't just jump in.
Travis:What they did is is is that they always saw to just walk straight into the lake with their arms locked as far as they could or the tallest guy up to their chin, and the other guys would just hang on. Right? And then they would come back. And what was so awesome first of all, some of them went one woman told me later. In fact, I gotta give her a call.
Travis:She says that probably was one of the most breakthrough experiences she's ever had because she never imagined she could ever do something that tough.
Derek:That's crazy.
Travis:She went out there and just as as as halfway out there, it was getting colder and colder. People are shivering, you know, and just literally taking deep breaths and just half of them didn't know if they could make it. And the one of them ring just bellowed out just out of the blue. Stay in the fight. Stay in the fight.
Travis:And all of a sudden, they had to talk about energy. You could sense and feel that energy. They went all the way out, and then they came back and just automatically fell into place. The one of the marines led the led the group back, and the other marines stayed back and made sure everyone got there. And it wasn't orchestrated at all.
Travis:Wow. That's the thing that you're gonna remember the rest of their lives, especially the women. And one of those women literally ear tears in her eyes at the end of that retreat, looked at me, and she said, I will never forget that I can do things that I never thought I could do. Being out there in the cold with some marines.
Derek:That's a bragging thing you can brag about for forever. And it's not about the bragging. It's about the when you need to, you can look inside and say, I can can be Oh, you
Travis:create those memories. That's what activities do. Right?
Derek:Yeah. I had I had an experience where I was, I was a guide but not a leader of the boys Yeah. On on a glacier trip in the Canadian Rockies, and there was a kid there who shouldn't have be who shouldn't have come.
Travis:Mhmm.
Derek:He was, he was on the spectrum. He didn't have any really friends there. He had two ingrown toenails, and he was a big kid, and he was out of shape.
Travis:Oh, wow.
Derek:So he got up to the Alpine hut we were staying, never got on the glacier, and then we hiked out in a snowstorm.
Travis:Oh, wow.
Derek:And and, immediately, he falls at the back. So there's his two leaders, and I stayed at the back. And, you know, he's he's not with the boys again, picking our way through the snowstorm back, back to get picked up by a bus. And, at at a critical point, he said, I think I have only three minutes of battery life left. You you can imagine what kind of world this kid lived in.
Travis:Oh, yeah.
Derek:One of the one of the leaders got him talking about his favorite thing, which was, comic book superheroes.
Travis:Oh, wow.
Derek:Obscure ones even, I think. And, that kept him till the end. So then we got on the bus. I ended up sitting next to him. He never saw the mountains.
Derek:His head was down the whole time. He he wasn't hanging out with the guys. He was in pain the whole time. And, he looked over and he said, that was the best experience of my life.
Travis:Oh, wow. That's amazing.
Derek:So what he missed was some of the connections except his his adult leaders were awesome. Right? They made him do it. They they showed him he had reserves that he didn't think he had. And so, yeah, those kinds of experiences are fantastic, and I think we can get more value out of hard experiences at work.
Travis:Yeah.
Derek:If we connect it back to the purpose, we recognize the contributions different people make. And and while it's good to get outside, sometimes you have to have that experience in the real trenches of the work that you're doing.
Travis:No doubt about it. You know, that's the thing I love about corporate America. Corporate Canada, I guess, too.
Derek:Is Well, we'll see. Yeah.
Travis:Is is it's a playground to change people's lives. That's the thing I love about culture. If you do it right, it can make a huge impact on people's livelihood and the way they are able to connect with other people. The sad part is pretty is pretty, atypical. I just read you some statistics.
Travis:It's 70% of people at work feel that they're not engaged at work. 70%.
Derek:You know, and they're take and they're taking money from the company, and the company's paying them.
Travis:Yeah.
Derek:And what a waste on both sides. Right? What a waste. A phenomenal waste.
Travis:And and and a potential to bring people together. As I said before, culture is all about connection and uniting. Connecting with people and then uniting over a common cause.
Derek:So I wanna jump down to the bottom of your list because we gotta wrap up here, Travis. This time goes so fast. You talked about deep human connection, and you said it has to get to the heart. So I'm tracking this because in my work on essential dynamics, I'm on the people side. I'm a process guy.
Derek:I'm a strategy guy. I'm not as strong on the people side, and I know that. Then I'm thinking, what's the question that I can ask organizations to think about, where they would say, you know, we need to make a change? And the question I came up with on the people side was, what are you doing to deserve the hearts of the people?
Travis:I love that.
Derek:Because it's so often the the leaders that I've worked with over the years are trying to get people to do stuff.
Travis:Yeah.
Derek:And they're trying to figure out how to pay them differently so they'll do stuff or how to communicate with them and, I don't know, like somehow manipulate them into doing stuff.
Travis:Yeah.
Derek:And and to your point, the potential is there, people aren't engaged, they'd love to be engaged. And so I'm asking them, do you deserve the arts of the people? And if you do, then then figure out how to get them.
Travis:Yeah.
Derek:And I think you'll be blown away.
Travis:Absolutely. I love that. You got one of the hearts and minds. Right? That's what you gotta do, and that's what happened.
Travis:That's why, that's why I love sports because I think it happens in with the best teams is is that the best the best coaches in football and basketball and any kind of sport are able to capture the hearts and minds of the players and and they and and all the players do the same is is that it's a it's it's a it's a work of of it it's a work of the heart. And and one of the things that's very unique about, the retreats that I like to do is, yeah, we spend time strategizing and thinking about stuff and doing stuff that takes intellectual brainpower. But I'll tell you some of the most powerful and the things that I remember the most are are the shared activities, and then we do what I call a deep dive. And a deep dive typically happens usually it takes about two to three hours, usually the group of 10 to 12 people where we talk about questions that that usually are never talked about, such as, what was it like growing up? Right?
Travis:What was your biggest childhood challenge? What was the key defining moment that changed the way you think about life? Those kind of questions. I could go on. But usually, two and a half hours into that with guys that that that are that are pretty tough, including the Denver Bronco top ten, twelve players, the Denver Broncos that thought they were the only ones that came from a pretty difficult background.
Travis:I'll never forget. At 01:30 in the morning, it took five hours to get through that process. And it wasn't a dry eye in that place because they all realized that they came from places that no one ever knew. They talk about how they came home when they saw their brothers covered up on the porch because they just got shot, and all they saw was the red sneakers showing out. And and their parents, a lot of times, they're most of them have only one parent, and and I'll never forget one person told me that, you know, he he was a he was seven years old.
Travis:He pretty much had to take care of his three little brothers who was three, four, and five because his mom was strung out. And the only way that he that he was able to take care of those kids is they had to and they had a McDonald's in the corner. He knew exactly what time they throw out the stuff from the breakfast and and whatever. He'd go out there and and and the garbage containers and and and bring back some some old, McMuffins and stuff and put it in the fridge. That's what they live off of for the next three days.
Travis:And when you hear those kind of stories, another guy is saying, oh my goodness. And they and and and they just recognize that they that football was there it was the only way out of of of that kind of a life. And and if the one that makes it into football, there's 20 others that that don't. And, for me, that deep human connection that you create by sharing that kind of stuff is stuff that that really quite frankly, I think had a lot to do with the fact that when I we start having these retreats three years before the foot before the two thousand fifteen Super Bowl when Peyton Manning took him to the championship. And they got stronger every year because of that bond of those top 12 players.
Travis:Once you get those top 12 players, they're once follows them just like the executive team. I spend 80% of my time working with the executive team because they set the tone for everybody else.
Derek:So I think what you're saying is that's possible for any leadership team willing to do the work.
Travis:Absolutely. That's what it requires. Gotta be willing to do the work, and you have to be willing to let your ego and your pride step down, and you need to step up with your heart. That's what it's all about in my mind. And and it's so hard to do in an environment mostly where that's not necessarily something that people are used to.
Travis:It's out of the box. But I gotta tell you, it's more worthwhile work that I've ever had a chance to do. I I I don't I can tell you that I have memories that I will never, that I'll always cherish for the rest of my life because of that.
Derek:Well, Travis, thanks so much for, coming on the podcast today and giving us a tiny dose of Culture by Design. Remind us where people can find you.
Travis:Well, probably the easiest way is I have a website called culturebuilders.com, and, love anybody to reach out. If if you need to even call me, I'm happy to just I know a lot of people are really hesitant to give numbers out, but I if anyone has any questions or wants to talk about culture, my number is (801) 550-6049. And, be happy to talk to anybody that has interest because it's a topic I never get tired of talking about.
Derek:Hey. Hey. Thanks. One of the great things about those Utah numbers is you think they're toll free. So Well, thanks so much, Travis.
Derek:Thanks, Brynn Griffiths, for helping in the studio. I'm Derek Hudson. And till next time, consider your quest.