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Social Justice - A Conversation
Wesley Knight 0:00
You're listening to local programming produced in KU NV studios. The content of this program does not reflect the views or opinions of 91.5 jazz and more the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, or the Board of Regents of the Nevada System of Higher Education.
Charles Stanton 0:18
Good evening. This is Professor Charles Stanton. I'm a professor of Boyd School of Law,
Blanca Pena 0:23
and my name is Blanca Pena. I am a third year law student at the Boyd School of Law, and this is Social Justice a conversation, a conversation.
Charles Stanton 0:34
Well, good evening, everybody, and welcome back to social justice a conversation. I'm here with my co host, Blanca Pena and we wanted to try to do something a little different to start our program tonight, having to do with an article that I don't know how many people saw it, but I saw it. I saw it last. I saw it last Friday, and it made an enormous impression upon me. You know, many times when we do this show, and of course, you know Blanca and myself, we are progressives. We are people who believe in progressive values. And many times, you know, when we get on the show, I can imagine people think, well, you know, all those things that they're talking about, it's not totally possible that all that could be happening, and I can understand that, because there are so many things happening in our country right now that it's almost impossible to keep up with all the incremental carving way of democracy. But in this article, we have a story about the Secretary of Defense. He's been mentioned before on this program. And my feeling, and I know the feeling of a lot of people, not just in academia, but in the military, is that, you know, this was a very unwise choice. Well, the basis of the article. The basis of the article has to do with the fact that the Secretary of Defense blocked the promotion of four army officers to be one star generals. And the question became, well, whether or not the reason they were blocked was because they lacked the competency to be one star generals or for other reasons. And the article, basically, the article basically goes into the fact that of the four people, two were women, two were black, and basically the rest of all the people, all the rest of the other people on the list, were white. Okay, so anyway, the man who's the the army Secretary, Mr. Driscoll, he was being pressured repeatedly to remove these people from the list of people who could get the one star general promotion. And of course, the man who was the, you know, the army secretary, said there was no reason to deny them this these this promotion, these promotions because they had long records of exemplary service. Anyway, the Secretary of Defense broke all protocol because he took the names of those four people off the list, even though there's no legal justification that he had the ability to do so. So now, basically, in this, in all these promotion lists, there's only a few female or black officers. And the writer of the article who wrote this article with basically interviews with 11 current and former military or administration officials, and he had, he had basically attacked the the woman who was the the army
Charles Stanton 4:15
secretary for selecting this particular woman she was supposed to be in charge of the Military District in Washington. She had outstanding service in Iraq and in Afghanistan, and she was, she was not able to get the appointment. So when he asked, when he asked the army secretary, who usually is responsible even more than the Secretary of Defense for knowing which people are highly qualified. He was asked why there was so much opposition to this particular woman, and he was told, he was told. Uh, according to the Secretary of army, that President Trump would not want to stand next to a black female officer at military events. And this is, this is where we're at now. This is where we're at now. So in other words, it's not about competency. It's not about experience. It's not about, you know, integrity. It's not about your record of service. It's about your gender or the color of your skin. And this situation has happened now repeatedly since this man became president again, including, but not limited to the fact that the man who was the he was the first general Lawson, he'd been the Secretary of Defense, he had been on the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and pretty much all those people who had been appointed by President Biden have been removed, even though, even though close to 50% of our active military, officers and troops, almost 1.4 million out of 3 million, are People of Color.
Blanca Pena 6:20
Yeah, it's an unfortunate truth here that we see every day. How you know people of color and people who are a part of minority communities are expected to go above and beyond, just to even be seen as average or even be seen at all? I remember when Kamala was running, I mean, she had a whole resume full of experience both and in all branches of government, and you had this other white guy who had no experience, really, in anything, and she, I almost feel like there, there's only so much you can do before you realize that it doesn't matter how good your resume is, people will really only look at you for what you look like or where you came from, and that's really, really disappointing. I think I had mentioned it last week, if not last week, definitely one of the prior shows. But I still hate that quote from Charlie Kirk that said he would be nervous if he saw a black pilot driving a plane that he was getting into that it's just, it's so ignorant and so racist, and this is coming from someone who who has had to work really hard to be able to even be afforded some of the same things that my white counterparts have had. And this whole idea of a model minority, right? It's, it's, it's trash, to be quite frank with you, especially when, when you have people who do get certain positions or awards or accolades because of who their parents are or because of how much money they have. And you know, the other day last week, actually, I don't know if you saw what was happening at the law school, but the Federalist Society had a speaker come in for one of their events. I forgot his name. I think it was Ilya Shapiro, something like that. Sounds familiar, yeah, yeah. And I had looked him up briefly because I was curious as to who this speaker is and what he stands for, and I ended up on his Twitter, and I had seen some really disgusting tweets. He had reposted a video of a protest that was going on, and he said something like, all of the foreigners here should get their visas revoked and deported, right? Like, blah, blah, blah, blah, and he was going off on this tangent. And it's funny because after I finished class, I was walking out of the law school, and I saw Elia Shapiro walking in with, like, I don't know, little entourage. There were some kids, I assumed they were his, and stuff like that. And I can't help but think, you know, what would he tell me if I were to tell him, Hey, I'm not from here, like, can you say it to my face that you don't think I should belong here, right? And I've heard it before. I've had really interesting conversations with people who voted for Donald Trump, where they start talking about people that come from other countries and how they're a quote, unquote burden and stuff like that. And I confront them about it, I'm like, Okay, well, I'm not from here, so what do you what do you want to tell me? I'm not committing crimes, I'm just going to school. It wasn't even my choice to come here, but I'm here. What do you have to say to me? And they say, Oh, well, we're not talking about you. You're one of the good ones. And it's like, no, you are talking about me. And I think this issue arises from people having this idea in their head of of this, like, monster, like, of this, like, the of these brown people who are like, like, running across the border, like the freaking World War Z zombies, and like, they're coming in and they're stealing all the jobs, and they're taking all the benefits, and they're. Not doing anything to help, and that's just not the case. And people are so they're so complacent in their own ignorance that they refuse to step out of themselves and realize that we really are just people exactly like them. We look different from them, but we are exactly like them, and we are just as capable and we are just as talented. And for Pete HEG Seth to come in, I mean, who is he? You know what? I mean, like, Who the hell are you? And for him to remove those people off of the promotion list too. I mean, two female or two women and two black people. I mean, that's just, that's horrible.
Charles Stanton 10:36
Well, I think, I think it's something that has become very normalized. It's interesting that you can you can normalize evil as much as you can normalize good. So that you have a lot of people in the country who have grown up with the mythology that you were just talking about, and the lack of knowledge, the lack of introspection, the lack of interest in finding out more than you already know, is one of the biggest problems we have in our country. When I was a young man, I was always very much interested in learning. I always wanted to grow as a person. When I went to New York University, I had gone to a very good academic high school, but there was very little teaching about history. It was mostly science and mathematics. And I was able to take it at New York University courses in Black Studies, a number of courses in sociology. And I got to, I got to read some amazing books. There was a book called The man's name was Oscar Lewis. Was called La vida. It's one of the great books about, you know, the Latino experience in the United States. And then there was another great book, which, interestingly enough, has come back into print called strangers in the land. It's one of the great books about, you know, the founding of America and how, you know, we ended up in the place that we're at, yeah, but I was always, I was always interested in that. What's interesting to me, and I don't know how you feel about it, but why is there such a fear of knowledge? This has always fascinated me as a person, as an academic, but just as a human being, that if these things are out there for us, that can can enrich us and make us more tolerant and more aware of not just our own surroundings, but of our the way we deal with other people. Wouldn't we not want to find those things out? Why wouldn't we want to get get that extra intelligence that we can. We can make it part of ourselves. But I think people are lazy in a lot of ways. Yeah, it's much easier to just say, Well, you know, this group of people, or that group of people, they're not, they're not up to my standard, or whatever it is, but not to look at the history, not to look at the background, not to look at many ways, how the country was founded, even, and I think that, I think it's been heightened by, In a way, social media, the social media, and you know all these different websites and you know, podcasts and everything are not about learning at all. They're not about education. They're not about knowledge. They're just about presenting a set of beliefs to people that they know they have an audience for Yeah. So if they say, Well, you know, this group of people is going to be inferior, that group of people is considered inferior. Well, we got a big audience out there. Yeah, there are people want to hear that, but actually, but actually, to have programs where you discuss these things from from a scientific and from a humanistic point of view. They don't want that, you know, they were talking about, they were talking about, it was an article about Chuck Nourse, about how Chuck nourris created the manosphere. And I, you know, to me, you know, when I was watching these movies, you. That was, like the 10 million thing from my mind. It was an action movie. He's a karate master, you know, octagon, all these movies, but apparently it was one of those things that led to other sites coming where what you have is very interesting today. You know, people are liberal, people are conservative, people, whatever they are, but I noticed the demonization more than I ever used to notice it of people with a different belief than, than than I would have, yeah, yeah. Or vice versa, whatever way you put it. So like, if, like, if I don't like, say I don't know somebody that comes on who's a commentator. Okay, well, I don't hate the person. You just disagree. I just disagree with them. That's it's not something where you know, and it's become normal, though, yeah. And then you you attach to that person, all these other character flaws, even though you don't know the person at all. Yeah, it's very it's a very odd thing. And I guess it gets ratings. Yeah. I mean, if you go on YouTube at night and you just go across the panel, right? Well, you know, it's beyond belief. Yeah, it really is. It really is beyond belief. It's gotten so bad, really, where you have these supposed experts, which I use that word very loosely, commentating on all these different things and like saying, like, outrageous stuff, there's no limitation on anything. And, you know, maybe, maybe, like, if you're an adult, that's, you know, into learning, or you're a perceptive person, you can understand it and understand what they're doing, but a lot of people don't.
Blanca Pena 16:57
Yeah, and just to touch really quick on your point about knowledge, I think people are lazy, because that's why we have headlines, right? Like, people read headlines and then they don't read the article, or people look at a thumbnail on YouTube and the caption, but they don't watch the video, right? Nobody opens up a book, right? At least people who don't care enough about it. And I think that's why it's so easy for people to get caught up in all of these, all of these ideas, because they they're okay with knowing what they know or what they think that they know. And as for these crazy commentators, I mean, I'll be the first to say I am a big supporter of the First Amendment. I think we should all be able to speak our minds and say what we need to and if, if there is, you know, any way to combat quote, unquote, bad speech, you do it with good speech, right? And I definitely don't think the government should have any say in what we do or don't say. It's interesting, because I have been thinking about this for a while now, about like I don't I try to avoid getting on a high horse myself. I try to avoid putting myself in a position where I think I know better than someone else, or I'm more I'm smarter than them, or anything like that. But I also try to avoid making assumptions myself, because if you if you were to ask me, like, Okay, if you think of someone who's Maga, like, what does that look like for you? And that obviously pops up a picture in my head, and I automatically think, you know, ignorant, racist, mean, like, like, you know, and that's a very quick instinct. And I I know that not all people who support Donald Trump are exactly like that, like there's, there are different versions, if you will, of all of these people. And I try not to put this blanket over them, but in the same breath, I try and reflect with myself, and I think about, you know, do do I put myself in a position where I try to have conversations with these people, or do I just look the other way and just continue to inform myself, because I struggle with this a lot where I'm like, Well, do I even need to convince someone else of my own humanity? Like, is that even my burden to bear at this point? Or should I just let people be who they are? But then, in the grand scheme of things, does that improve society? If we all just turn around into our own echo chambers and and stick to what we know instead of confronting each other, I asked this question to one of my professors over at Boyd and and he made a really good point. He said, You know, don't, don't go into the conversation assuming that you're all knowing and all correct and that they don't know anything like they you you want to go into these. Conversations, at least being open to the idea that they might be correct in some aspect. I don't know what it is i If you were to ask me right now, I still wouldn't be able to tell you what it is that they would be right on on the other side of the aisle. But if I go in with this blocked mindset, then where are we going to get with anything, and that's the problem in this country. No one wants to talk to each other. Everyone just wants to yell or fight or call each other names or deport like everybody just is in this weird, negative bubble and space. And I think that is definitely coming from the top down. I mean, you have our politicians saying all these horrible things, and then it just creates this domino effect where everyone thinks that it's okay to treat people like this, but it's not, yeah,
Charles Stanton 20:47
well, I think, I think the what you say is very true. I saw this coming personally, personally myself. About 15 years ago, I saw it in television, primarily, initially, all the reality shows that were coming out, the dumbing down of the audience, you know, the bachelor, the bachelor about all these Keeping Up With The Kardashians. Yeah, all this stuff, all the stuff. And moving away from, you know, factual stuff, stuff that really was helpful to people, stuff that was relevant to people's lives. And I think the President realized that, yeah, I think the President realized that I was able to put a show on for like 13 or 14 years, a reality show that people actually believed in that was real when most of it wasn't real, right? Why not take it to the next step, which is to run for president, even though I personally have no qualifications to do that, right? They're not going to look at me that way. They'll look at me as this very successful, highly motivated, very astute person who built, who built an empire, etc, etc. And, of course, a lot of things played into his favor. The main thing that played into his favor, of course, was that he ran against the woman, which obviously, in our society, is not an equal, is not an equal match, because a woman, a woman, will not be judged by the same standard as a man will be judged. There's an unequal there's an unequal distribution there. So as a result, you could, you could bring a person like Hillary Clinton, who had been, you know, had been an attorney, who had been a secretary of state, who had had all these United States senators, etc, etc. And not only, not only could you, could you have her run as a highly qualified person, but had her run against the man who did whose discourse on the bus couple of weeks before the election clearly was disqualifying, because the man basically his regard for women is of a very low regard. Yet, yet, yet, the man became elected president. So he's made the president. The presidency, of course, is a disaster, because, like anything else in life, whether it's the presidency or being a teacher or being a student, you need a certain human and a certain experience to do it. So we basically, we basically staggered through and survived covid Only because, by the grace of God we were and our scientific community, we were able to come up with vaccines that basically saved, like, millions of people's lives. Okay, so the lesson was made for a while. Joe Biden becomes the president. And of course, Joe Biden had his had his problems as well. But anyway, Joe Biden steps down, and who does he who's going to take over for him, who's going to be the standard bearer of the Democratic Party? Well, a woman that was even more qualified than Hillary Clinton, except, except for Richard Nixon, probably Kamala Harris was the most qualified person ever to be running for president, if you, if you look at her background, District Attorney of olden District Attorney of San Francisco, Attorney General of California. You United States, Senator, Vice President, etc, okay, but she was handicapped. She was handicapped. She was handicapped because she was she was black, she was handicapped because she was Indian. She was handicapped because she was a woman. So you got a whole segment of the population that's basically cut off from voting for her Yeah, even though she's Yeah, has the goods Yeah. And then the irony of all ironies is almost all of her positions were about upholding the law, and the man who's elected is a convicted felon, yeah, but better we elect the convicted felon than a woman. Yeah, it's God forbid that we would elect a woman to be president. This is, this is heresy, except for all the countries in Europe and Asia and all the other places would have elected a woman and Mexico and Mexico too, yes, yeah,
Blanca Pena 26:01
I'm with you on that. It's kind of going back to what I was saying earlier, about it doesn't matter how good you are, it doesn't matter how much qualifications you have, you'll get stomped on by a white man because he's a white man, and that's just how it is. And I, I also don't want to take away from all of the other problems that the Democratic Party had during the last election, because I do think there was a lack of unity, and especially with the Israel and Palestine conflict. I mean, I think that divided the party a lot, and I don't want to take away from that, because I do think, you know, both parties have not been listening to their constituents when it comes to problems like that, where, where, you know, we have a, we have a an entire country who is being, you know, subjected to genocide on American taxpayer money. And we have the Democrats who like always paint themselves as being there for the people and for the working class people and and let's get health care and let's do this and that. But it almost feels like they're they're stuck always, all the time, like it's so frustrating to see, and it's even more frustrating when it almost seems like the Republican Party, no matter how crappy their politicians are, no matter how many times they drop the ball, they still back their guy, they still go and they vote and they do what they're supposed to do, and and I
Charles Stanton 27:28
think that, I think a lot of that, though, is the tie into business, oh for sure, tie into corporate America. I mean, you know, the whole question, the whole question of the Middle East is something that is age old. It goes it goes back many generations. But Thomas Friedman, who's written so much about the Middle East, he's been the Times correspondent over there, he said, the basic problem that you have, though, is that you have two sides, and neither one of them that wants the peace. This is what you're dealing with. So you're dealing with that, and you're dealing with you're dealing with these age old hatreds of people, yeah, and, but, but we see it. We see it in our own country, in the way we treat our own people, yeah, so in a way, you know, we were not really the most apt people to be, to be, Oh, for sure, to be lecturing Israel, lecturing anybody with what we've got going on here. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's amazing. It's amazing to me, though, you know, as we started the program with the, you know, promotions in the military, how a man could actually come out and say that, yeah, regarding the President of the United States, visa vie a woman who served her country, I just don't get it. Yeah, I just don't get it.
Blanca Pena 29:08
Yeah, neither do I. If anyone in the audience gets it, send us an email, please. Yes. Well, with that, thank you all so much for listening. We'll see you next week. Good night. Take care. God bless you.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai