How important are global partnerships in the pursuit of decarbonization?

In the latest episode of Decarbonizing Today, Energy Bridge Global's founder, Patricia Schouker, is joined by your Edmonton Global host, Kessia Kopecky. The paid discussed partnerships and the importance of working together, the power of constituents, and long-term thinking in the face of disruption of the global energy market. 

What is Decarbonizing Today?

Explore the Edmonton Region's role in solving the global climate crisis.

In this episode, we have Patricia Schuker,

founder of energy Bridge Global, here with your Emonton Global host, Cassia Kopeki.

So Patricia, I'd like you to just start by introducing yourself.

Yes, guess yeah, it's great to be with you today.

Thanks for having me.

So um I am the founder of Energy Bridge

Global, uh So we stand at the forefront of innovation

and strategic consultancy in the energy sector.

So I'm based in Washington, DC.

um Our core focus is on enhancing

innovation, security and competitiveness.

So we really empower customers in

the energy landscape to really navigate the complex cities

of today's uh energy landscape and how to achieve sustainable growth.

Awesome.

And it sounds like you do a lot of work throughout European

as well as North American markets and it's quite extensive.

So I'd like to start just by asking you, what key

trends do you see emerging in the cleaned energy sector and

that are shaping global competitiveness and driving sustainability needs?

Yeah, no, that's a really good question, especially

keeping a, you know, starting with a global perspective, right?

Like you said, I worked on both sides of the

pond and I truly believe that a successful energy

transition cannot occur without energy security.

I think energy security means ensuring reliable

and affordable energy for all.

And many people think about energy transition,

but nobody really keep and has energy security in mind.

And unfortunately, the conversation around energy transition

often overlook the critical aspects,

um you know, which is almost a the economy between

traditional energy companies, the big one and then the renewable

energy companies that focus on sustainability.

So I think those two perspectives really

need to coexist to create that that energy.

um and, you know, you ask a lot about trends as well.

And I think it's a really interesting perspective and I'll give you a couple ones.

One of them is um definitely

accelerate accelerating the uh the decaborization policies

uh that we see then the technological advancement,

uh but last and not least we've got an investment in in hydrogen technologies.

I think these were really important to look into.

I think in the the technological advancement, I

think Canada is at the forefront. uh we've seen Alberta

launch its first commercial hydrogen fueling station.

I think it's a crucial step in

expanding hydrogen solution in the versatile energy carrier carrier.

And we see companies like Aurora

hydrogen, for instance, that awarded $3 million dollars in

in funding from the natural resource Canada,

to really advance the production of low-carbon hydrogen.

So it really shows how Canada has the potential,

but also the innovative technologies

to drive that energy transition.

So when you mentioned policy

and accelerating that as well, can you give me a little bit more what you mean by that?

Are there good examples from Canada that you've seen

or good examples that we might be able to learn

in the Edmonton region in order to accelerate our hydrogen economy?

Yeah, absolutely.

And I think it's it's challenging

sometimes to keep the momentum, right?

In that space, um I think there's a lot of lesson learn from the EU, but also um

on the North American side and the US as well. in we seen of the EU.

We've got the Green U deal really aiming for

zero net zero emissions by by 2050.,

but also the US inflation Reduction Act really provided

providing significant incentives for renewable energy investment.

So I think those initiatives are not just regulatory framework.

That's that's key to keep in mind, but how rapid

innovation and how we can attract substantial

investment in that clean technology, which in

turn enhance energy security and sustainability in the long term.

So I think it's really

getting the lesson learned from from other side

of the world that can be really critical for for

Canada taking the long view, uh we have short-term and long-term objective.

Exactly.

So that means essentially like if we can get that

kind of process accelerated and work on that environment

where it's easier to invest, then we might see more of this technological

innovation as well that we've seen, for example, with Aurora or the first

commercial hydrogen and fueling station.

So that's really good.

It's all really cyclical, isn't it?

No, it is.

And and, you know, you you're bringing there or a project, but,

you know, everyone has one thing in mind nowaday,

which is, how can we be more sustainable in those technologies that we put out there?

And you've seen, you know, now we all talk about AI, right?

This is the constance, uh, and it's everywhere, wherever you, wherever you are.

And I think there's a lot of lesson learn, uh, for instance,

from the Nordics, because they have that

advantage to be a cold location, right?

But also, I mean, Canada is also the same, right?

If you if you look at the on the North American side, and I think there's

you know, a big commitment there to make available those

renewable sources to feed, feed those energy requirements.

And I think there's a really good example there, which I recommend look at.

It's called the the Veripori data centers in Finland,

which is absolutely fascinating because they consume up

to 40% of their energy on the cooling, right?

So that could be a potential solution with the big

need and demand of energy required to feed those data centers.

So

you mentioned AI, and I'm

wondering if there's a bigger picture with AI and how this might fit into it.

Can you tell me a little bit if there's a connection there?

Yeah, absolutely.

And and um I think

the on the on the Canadian side,

obviously, the Canadian government is really active in supporting

those AI research in the energy sector.

I think through investment innovation hubs,

collaboration that we're seeing, uh it's really, how can Canada

foster the development of AI solution full clean energy?

And we're we saw recently the the Pan Canadian AI strategy

uh supported by the federal government, fund

research institutions like the vector Institute and

Miller, which are heavily involved in applying AI

and how to tackle energy challenges,

but including improving renewable energy integration,

optimizing energy use and reducing carbon emissions.

So we're seeing a lot of collaborations, but also new

startups coming into that ecosystem.

And, you know,

that being, how can AI reduce energy consumption

and emissions and commercial buildings?

So we're going to see a lot more of that into uh into the energy sector.

Yeah.

So Adinton Global, we not only focus on

hydrogen and clean technology.

One of our core focus sectors is also AI in

technology and that pan Canadian AI

Institute or center of Exellence that you that you mentioned earlier, we are actually home to one of the three in Canada.

It's called Amy, the Alberta Machine Intelligence Institute.

So

being that we're very well experienced

in our region with energy and we have so

many resources with with AI.

I definitely mirror exactly what you're saying.

I think there's a lot of opportunities to use it and utilize it and

make everything more efficient and hopefully reduce emissions

while we're doing it as well and create jobs.

So, yeah, so I'm going to ask you another question

here, going leading into that kind of innovation space. from

your perspective, what are the main barriers holding companies back from adopting new technologies?

Like AI, for example, would be a good one.

And are there any opportunities that are coming from that, too, from these barriers?

Yeah, no, this is a, you know, all those advancements are great, right?

But it's not perfect definitely.

And there's three barriers that I'm seeing

now, uh that I one is the high upfont cost

uh that we're seeing, uh which is a major challenge.

For example, you've got um advanced

energy storage systems, uh that require

substantial initial investment, um, but this also present an

opportunity, right, for a government and financial institution

to really step in and increase their funding

and incentive, um, you know, like providing

like the EU is providing European invest the European investment bank uh for green projects.

So really, how do we mitigate the cost?

The second is the regulatory uncertainty.

Obviously, we are getting into

an election in the US, Canada as well soon.

but the regulatory can be enough barrier.

And that is, you know, not just due

to what kind of regulation, but understanding the sector and how it evolves.

And there's a big mismatch between, you know, often policymakers and

energy companies per se.

So I think it, but it also opens opportunities for

companies to engage in policy advocacy and

shape favorable regulatory environment.

And the last one, but not least, but it's

also an important one, I would say technical challenges

that are really prevalent.

I think we're we're talking a lot about how

nuclear energy could feed, you know, the need for energy in AI.

And I think next generation nuclear reactors face

hurdles related to scalability and public acceptance.

And that's not just for nuclear, it's also for other technologies out there.

So really I'm

I strongly strongly believe that collaboration with

research institution, technology providers, the

ones that you mentioned and partnerships, right?

We're seeing much more partnership nowadays

in battery technology, where we saw, you know, Tesla

partnering with Panasonic to really help address those

challenges and accelerate the adoption of new technology.

So, very barriers, yes, but

also, um, you know, opportunities for innovations, market

differentiation, strategic partnerships that are all essential to

get to that goal and objective that we have of net zero.

I think the one thing that you're saying that really stands out

to me is the partnership specifically.

It kind of ties into so many different spaces, even even

when you're working around a regulatory environment or trying to incentivize

technology if you're trying to get research in

order to make it so that this stuff works and works effectively at a good cost.

Like all these partnerships together,

like we can't just all do it by like uh by one person.

So the five thousand hydrogen vehicle challenge, it's an

initiative that was started by Edmonton Global, and the goal is

to get five thousand hydrogen or dual fuel hydrogen powered vehicles on the roads within five years.

So it's an ambitious goal, but it's very realistic and

we can't really do that by ourselves.

So

essentially all these partners within the Edmonton region, all these organizations,

realized after a lot of research, a lot of discussion, a

lot of engagement with the community and the energy industry,

that there is a problem that we're facing, which is essentially this chicken and the egg scenario.

So explaining it, it's essentially you

can't have a chicken without an egg, you can't have an egg without a chicken, just the same as you can't have

people wanting to buy trucks that are hydropowered

and decarbonize their fleets without people who are willing to

invest and build infrastructure just just as the

opposite where people aren't going to want to build and invest without the

demand of people wanting to buy and use the trucks and the technology.

So I'm wondering like what your thoughts are on that and like,

as far as looking at those barriers, your perception of how that might maybe overcome any of those barriers.

Or if you see any opportunities and just that little bit that I told you.

Yeah, no, I mean, it's a, you know, one of many, right?

Where, again, it's an opportunity, but also a challenge.

And I'm a huge believer in the public private partnership being absolutely fundamental

to the development of CCUS, right?

Because we spoke about that extensively.

But it's notable that investment are

coming again from government and corporation with significant

carbon liabilities, rather than traditional investors investing in those in those partnerships.

And I think, you know, it

can be challenging sometimes to do public private partnership.

You know, it's got a lot of potential, but there's a couple aspects that,

you know, need to trigger that ecosystem because it's not only a partnership.

It's also an investment.

And it's really hard to, especially when

you're in an early early stage, there's high financial risk as well.

And I think government or stepping in with incentives,

we've seen like tax credits and grants and subsidies, right?

That are part of that partnership to really how we de risk an investment

and encourage encourage private sector particip participation.

So I think all those traditional investors,

you know, like venture capitalists, or private equity firm, they're

less inclined to invest in those projects,

because they require really long-term, high up

front capital without immediate returns, right?

So once they get into such project, it's really long term.

It's not something where they expect to return within the year, a year or two.

So, you know, I think the there's

much less reliance on bay companies, right?

I think we're looking at that new ecosystem of startups,

like you said, that are looking for partnerships to grow better

and faster, but it's also part of resource sharing

as well.

I think that's a big advantage where you see in those partnerships,

um, you know, energy, the, you know, department of energy

and private sector, but also research groups,

right, developing carbon capture technologies, which really

allow them to share not not just the resource, but the expertise

and the risk, which can really

help overcome those barriers that we mentioned at

the beginning, which is part of innovation as a whole.

Yeah.

I think, too, especially like when you talk about resource sharing, like information sharing as well.

So for hydrogen and clean technology, there's because

it's emerging and like it's a lot of it's transitional

from the traditional energy sector.

So a lot of that information and those processes can be moved over, altered, adjusted.

But when it comes to understanding the economics and what

the market needs are, I think collaboration is really

important because people are getting information from so many different places.

And if you're not sharing and talking about it with each other, then you're

really kind of in the dark for some things as well.

So silo also, right?

It sector.

And one more thing I would add is on the the

policy alignment, you know, what comes to mind when you say that, it's the

Edmonton Green energy innovation strategy,

right?

I think that really talks about that, too, about industry

needs and creative, a supportive environment for clean energy development.

And I think that really helps to facilitate and

ensure the success of those public private partnerships.

So having a strong government mechanism like

like that strategy, I think is critical as well..

Definitely.

So going back a little bit to energy

security, I know that this is a top priority or key,

like kind of focus pillar for uh for your organization.

So what key security risks do you believe companies

maybe just specifically in the Edmonton region?

If you can't get that specific, you can go even beyond because I

know you've done a lot of work in Western Canada.

What should we be doing to prepare for forward

with the clean energy transition when we're looking at energy security?

Yeah,ess, you you're touching this sweet spot here.

Sorry. definitely

a passion of mind and and no, I always say, you

know, when you talk about energy security, you have to put it into perspective,

because it's not, well, I mean, it's the less, the least well defined.

So, you know, I think energy security

is the low vulnerability of vital energy system.

So in there, uh and really for for you audience,

um I want them to keep in my two man idea in that definition.

One is

not it's not the energy security of a black box, but

the energy security of specific systems.

It could be electricity, it could be all and gas.

It could be transportation.

It could be storage.

And then the second, I think that is important in part is

the security aspect, which is the vulnerability.

So when you look at the vulnerability of that open energy system,

you have to look at how energy security has evolved

over time over history.

And I think there's three main elements that

we have to keep in mind.

The first the first of um is

the subvereignty perspective.

So you have to answer the question of who controls the energy?

Do we import it?

Do we produce it?

Which country we are we producing locally?

If it's local, then who is who

is produc who is producing it locally?

The second, I think it's really how our

energy system will how long it will last.

And in that perspective, you have to look at how robust

our infrastructure is, and how it can withstand

threats like cyber cyber threats, physical threats.

And the first the third aspect is really the notion of resilience.

And when we face a disruption,

how quickly can the system respond and recover?

And I think this is absolutely critical.

And that's wherever you are, Canada, the EU, the US, regardless.

And I see a lot of of that,

you know, the last point being discussed among investors and

how are they also involving that energy security?

And I think in Europe, probably the biggest change that we're seeing is in Germany.

and I'm really curious to see how that's going to grow.

And by that, why Germany, because it's they see energy

security as me.

And by me, I mean my affordability, not

necessarily above the countries, power, the country's energy and capabilities.

And I think the constituency, like yourself,

Casia are powerful in that energy energy

system, because you're active participant of, you know, of that system, right?

At the end, you also vote.

So you you consume that that that energy.

And I think, you know, if you look at those

this energy security element, it's usually

people look at it in the in the in the more affordable more to it than it sounds like, right?

Exactly.

Yeah, and it means different things to different people as well, right?

And I think it's much more localized.

You know, if you live in Edmonton, you're not seeing it,

you're not defining energy security in the same way as if you will be in the East Coast.

There's different elements than needs to be than is to be there and included.

Okay.

So I'm wondering if, um

and I don't want to get like super political or anything, this is just an example that I'm thinking of.

So when the Russia and

Ukrainian war started a couple of years ago and it

seemed to me at least that there was quite a disruption in the energy

market globally.

Like here, gas prices went up quite a bit.

People's energy prices.

There is news all over the world about if people

can heat their homes or have enough power.

So I'm just wondering, like, is that possibly like

a real world example of everything you're talking about?

Or am I on the right track with that?

Yeah, you definitely are on the right track.

And there's numerous example.

I mean, if you look at just, you know, in 2023,

there were about 68 cyber attacks

shutdown, damage and physical impact to 500 operational technology.

And that is basically about 68

cyber attacks on physical system in the energy sector.

And that number is growing expensively.

You mentioned one.

You've got the colonial pipeline in 2021 that

really highlighted the vulnerabilities in our critical infrastructure, but also the urgent need

for robust cybersecurity measures.

We've seen it with Freeport as well.

That was, you know, huge loss.

I mean, Freeport LNG uh could not export

for six months, so you can only imagine the financial loss.

uh, but also keep in mind, you know, that attacking

a physical system also means

attacking every single sector, right?

It impacts the financial sector.

It impact the health care industry, it impacts everyone transportation, innovation,

right?

It's really, you know, keeping in mind that energy is truly the foundation

for our day to day.

So our name, just, you know, an attack

on on one is an attack to many, uh quite frankly.

So, you know, when you put it into a perspective, it's

it's quite, um, you know, it's quite extraordinary.

Oh, wow, I have never looked

so deeply into that and it's I I feel like now I have a bird's eye view of

of what that actually means energy security.

So really interesting to see that, especially like

how it might tie into the global scale and global connection,

like between, for example, like Canada and Germany

or Canada in the United States.

So really, really interesting.

That kind of leads me into Segue when we're looking at other

regions in the world,

based on what you've learned, because you've worked globally and you've seen a lot of this.

So from your perspective, what can the Edmonton

region learn or what lessons can we learn from markets outside of Canada?

And I think it's a good segue to what, you

know, the security energy security aspect, right?

Because,

you know, we say, oh, energy security,ree and create infrastructure and so forth.

But it's not just cyber security.

It's, you know, in that energy security bucket,

I put in there a supply chain, right?

Which is a big topic nowadays, um, especially with semiconductor shortage

uh really, how do we maintain a resilient

and diverse supply chain, but also geolitical risk as we're seeing lately.

So all those elements are going to have a big impact overall.

The lesson learned for for the global

energy market truly is, I think the diversification of energy resource.

I think that's going to be absolutely critical.

I think we we are going

toward that that tread and objective of having a mix mixed

renewable technologies, you know, wind and cellars and hydrogens.

alongside, you know, other emerging emerging technologies.

And I think that could really enhance energy security and resilience for Edmonton.

also collaboration, uh and innovation hubs.

I mean, we mentioned earlier, some some strong innovation hubs

in Canada in the US, we've got the energy research

park in Houston. that fast its partnership between industries.

So I think Edmonton can really benefit

in strengthening its its own ecosystem of innovation and

and hubs and partnership to drive that clean energy innovation.

And last, I would say the kind

of the long-term policy vision as well.

I think that's critical as well, because you need to look at

what is Edmonton providing, what kind of supportive

policies can help me develop bigger

and better, uh global, you know, clean energy developments.

And I think that's, you know, that would be my my three takeaway in terms of lesson learn.

Awesome.

Well, thank you so much.

I'm glad hopefully anybody watching or listening will will

take this and be able to learn from it a little bit.

I do have one last question for

you and again, it's

it's about the Edmonton region, but if you can't

be super specific, then we can take a little bit broader based

on your perception and your understanding.

But when we're looking at everything that we talked about, so

like if it's policy regulatory,

uh if it's partnerships, hubs, how we're

connecting to the rest of the world and really thinking about this overall,

like, what is the Edmonton

Reg's economic impact as well as how does our economy

make an impact on the global climate crisis?

So thinking of that, is there anything about the Edmonton

region that you see that stands out to the rest of the world, that

maybe the rest of the world might be able to learn from?

Or maybe there's opportunities for us to continue standing out?

Yeah, absolutely.

No.

That's that's a great question.

I think, um

you know, I think it's how do

you keep up with the pace of that energy transition, right?

I think it's challenging and Canada has been doing a really good good

job there. um and and it's not just challenging

challenging the ecosystem,

but really how do you grow and stay innovative?

I like to say, you know, you want to be on the

leading edge, not the not the bleeding edge of things.

And I think that means you need a lot of

capital that doesn't necessarily turn into

profit immediately and earnings earnings for a considerable amount of time.

And where you when you are a big company

or not so much, right, you have to I think

Canada has been really good at you have to go beg.

You have to be connected.

You have to be everywhere.

But when you're everywhere, it gives you two two things.

It gives you power.

It gives you influence, but it also gives you enemies.

So there's, you know, there's another challenge, right?

But I think that you were here to get along with everyone.

I know, right?

Of course.

But you need to think about that all at the time, right?

And I think

um I think that, you know, a

sudden change take a lot of time, uh but also,

you know, being in the infrastructure, um,

you know, being in Canada and being so much involved in infrastructure, um,

you know, what it comes to mind is permitting, permitting and permitting and permanent.

But it doesn't matter.

I think one sentence to answer your questions.

It doesn't matter what energy source you want.

If you cannot build it, then you cannot get it, right?

And I think Canada has been really good at,

you know, keeping the course, having supporting policies.

Again, it's nowhere nowhere easy to get it through the finish line.

But you've got a really strong skill force.

I mean, Alberta's investment in educational programs

focused on on clean energy technology, technology has

been absolutely fascinating and excellent and there's

really good results and talents coming out of

of that, which are critical for the longterm

success, because we're missing that talent in that energy

in that energy space.

And I think Canada's really working on that in

those innovation hub that are growing and growing, you know, to name another one, you've got the

you've got the the Toronto, uh discovery

district, I think, that really support clean tag startups.

uh We're in this strong, you know, innovation hubs, economic growth.

And I think Edmmonton can really benefit from, you

know, from those initiatives to foster faster growth.

So again, I think we're it's always challenging, right?

We're getting into elections.

There's a lot of shifts of regulatory things.

But at the end of the day,

um, you know, corporations startups, all those new innovations

have, you know, a lot to say and a lot to do.

And I think it's just about adapting uh into these challenges.

Adapt and overcome.

Exactly. and innovate.

Okay, so that's pretty

much our time for this interview.

But I do want to leave one thing for you if

there's anything you want to tell me that I didn't ask you.

Is there anything that you're maybe looking forward to as

we look into the future of the energy market and the energy economy?

Yeah, I mean, the one thing I would add is really how

um AI will play a role in CCUS.

I think it's, you know, we're it can be seen in in different ways.

How is AI how will II optimize

CCUS systems?

I think there's a lot of noise out there.

I think I the world is is brainstorming more than anything.

There's no clear solution to that.

But I think there's very strong companies in

Canada that are leveraging AI to enhance your,

you know, the effect effectiveness of

of CO2 sequestration, uh in

in concrete, you know, um helping helping

reduce emissions in the construction industry.

And I think it's, you know, we need

to use all that ecosystem of data that we have to really, how can it

how can it get gets a faster uh to to where we need to be?

So meaning AI can be used to monitor, it

can be used to analyze, to improve the efficiency of

of capturing CO2. emissions from different

industrial processes and enabling more cost effective

and scalable solutions to reduce those those greenhouse gas, greenhouse gas.

So

I think there's a lot of great things coming out of Canada.

You know, one project I've seen is, you know, the Pan Canadian AI strategy.

I think I'm following this with a strong strong eyes.

So I think it will be really interesting to see that that develop development.

But um, yeah, that's one thing I wanted to add.

Good, then we'll definitely have to keep you up to date on everything happening in the Edmonton region with AI.

Definitely.

Yeah, we'll add you to the mailing list.

We do.

Okay, well, thank you so much, Patricia for joining today.

It was really great to learn about everything that

you're sharing them, especially that big picture is one thing that I've

really wanted to dive into and really understand is

just like what can we what can we learn from your perspective that goes

all around the world and comes back to Edmonton?

So I think it was a very effective.

I learned a lot.

This is Patricia Shooker from Energy Bridge

Global, the founder and CEO.

So yeah, feel free to research the

company and reach out to Patricia.

And, yeah, I really hope that we get to do something like this again with you.

So it's been a pleasure.

So thank you.

you for the conversation, Casion.

And I look forward to following the great work you guys are doing.

I look forward to following what you're doing.