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The Lushness Podcast delivers protocol-driven longevity science through the lens of Black women's lived experience. Hosted by Lushness founder Laura Rutledge, each episode features credentialed medical experts and integrative practitioners covering sleep, hormones, gut health, movement, and more. This is where cutting-edge science meets whole woman wellness. This is your blueprint.
Forty one percent of black Americans are not getting enough sleep and it's killing us. If I told you something you do every single night could add five years to your life or take them away. And that as Black women, the odds are already stacked against us. Would you keep ignoring it? That's why today I'm sitting down with Doctor.
Laura Rutledge:Angela Holiday Bell. She's a board certified physician, certified sleep specialist, and author of Sleeping on the Job. She's one of the leading voices in sleep health, and she's here to give us the science and the solutions. Today, we're breaking down why sleep is the first pillar of longevity. What it's really doing to our bodies, why Black women are losing the most sleep and paying the highest price, and what you can start doing tonight to take your life back.
Laura Rutledge:If this is the kind of conversation you need in your life, subscribe and follow so you never miss an episode. This is the Lushness Podcast. Let's get into it. Welcome Doctor. Vell to the Lushness Podcast.
Laura Rutledge:It's so good to have you. I'm super excited for this. I just want to let you know that I'm very, very excited because sleep, I think most of us don't get enough of it. And you're so amazing the way you cover sleep. It just, I mean, I've been following you for quite some time now, and you've been one of the earliest advocates of Lushness.
Laura Rutledge:Like when we first started, you were just the one that was just like, yes, we'll talk about sleep. And you just gave such great information. So it only made sense to have you on the podcast. So welcome, welcome, welcome.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:Thank you. Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here, of course, excited anytime I can talk about sleep, obviously my favorite subject, but thank you for having me on. So excited to dig in and get started.
Laura Rutledge:Yes, absolutely. So of course I'm going to start with the fact that sleep is the very first protocol for longevity. And I think that we don't talk about it enough. We don't talk about how bad it actually affects Black women. And sometimes we think we can out eat, out exercise, and just pretty much find our way around less sleep.
Laura Rutledge:And it's really killing us. It's something that I learned just even through research and just even for myself. You know, I've had nights, like even in college with insomnia, you know, things like that. And I had to do a little digging because I know how I felt when I didn't get good sleep. Like even as a mother now, if I don't get good sleep, my kids don't even get a good mom because I'm just completely and utterly out of it.
Laura Rutledge:Know what I mean? So let's talk about that. Let's talk about why sleep is so important as like the first important protocol when it comes to longevity.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:Yeah, it really is extremely important. I think you hit the nail on the head. We definitely don't talk about it enough. I like to think of it this way. I say that sleep is the foundation of optimal health and the other pillars of health are built on sleep because without sufficient sleep, other things exercise and nutrition will actually not work as well as they would if you're well slept.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:So you can't out eat, you can't outwork out poor sleep. Unfortunately, we live in a society that has put sleep on the back burner for decades, eons, right? I'll sleep when I die. And you know, this, this hustle culture, but what people don't understand is when you're not getting enough sleep, your hormones are dysregulated. It's much more difficult to stabilize your blood sugar.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:You're not building as much muscle. You're hungrier, you're less full. Your cravings are increased. So all of the things that you're trying to fix or achieve with the other things are actually not working as optimally as they would if you're well rested. So I say start there, that's the foundation.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:And then you build on that with the other healthy apps.
Laura Rutledge:Absolutely no, I know that for a fact and I can honestly sit and attest to the fact that if I don't sleep, you feel it immediately and I feel like it's just for me and I'm high production like I have to be producing. So when that hits, like I have to go to bed at a certain time. Tell me what is your favorite bedtime? Like what is the best time to go to sleep for you?
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:For me personally?
Laura Rutledge:You
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:personally So as a sleep it's interesting, I am actually naturally a night owl, So we have chronotypes or circadian tendencies is another way to put it that is our DNA. It is biological. So there's only so much control you have over that. So if your parents are night owls, you're more likely to be night owl, early bird, whatever. And there are some that fall in between.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:So I'm actually a night owl. If I could just structure my life any way that I wanted to, I'd be going to bed somewhere around 1AM and then waking up closer to 10AM. Unbelievable. It doesn't work that way. And now I have a smile, so it definitely doesn't work that way.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:So I've had to be very diligent and intentional over time with shifting, and almost working against my natural circadian rhythm. So an optimal time for me now is ten. So I go to sleep at 10PM and I wake up around 7AM. I need nine hours, nine hour girly. That's what works well for me.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:But if I could structure life in the way I wanted to, it would be much later than what I typically do.
Laura Rutledge:You know, it makes all the sense because a lot of us tend to be up at night. That's the time when the kids go to bed, right? We can get things done. It's the time that we actually have moments for ourselves, but we should actually be prioritizing sleep, which definitely leads to me asking you the lack of sleep. How is it impacting Black women specifically?
Laura Rutledge:If we're not getting enough sleep, how is it really like digging into our lives that we don't even realize it or recognize it?
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:So insufficient sleep impacts every single area of your life, your mental health, your physical health, your productivity. As you mentioned, I hear a lot of people say, I don't have time to sleep because I have to get this done and that done and this done. Not realizing that sleep improves your efficiency. So you're getting more done in a shorter amount of time if you're well slept. But what we do know is that when it comes to your physical health, when you're not getting enough sleep, your body triggers the fight or flight stress response system, because your body says, we are not taking time to devote to this very restorative, very necessary and important process, clearly there must be some sort of danger or threat.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:So let's trigger the cortisol, the stress hormone, the adrenaline, because we need to make sure that we can, we can operate or we can fight against this threat, whether there's truly a threat or not. Your body is assuming that there is. What that means is chronically you have cortisol stress hormone turned on in your body. So that leads to inflammation throughout your body, weakening your blood vessels, increasing your risk of heart disease, increasing your risk of high blood pressure, stroke. Cortisol decreases your body's sensitivity to insulin or increases your risk of type two diabetes.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:The hormone that signals that you're hungry ghrelin is released in higher quantities when you're not getting enough sleep. While at the same time, the hormone that signals that you're full leptin is released in lower quantities. You're more likely to make poor food choices. You're less likely to be active. And that increases your risk of weight gain and obesity.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:All of these things are important because all of these things disproportionately affect black communities, specifically black women. And then when you think of things like mental health, your risk of anxiety and depression significantly increase when you're not getting enough sleep. And there's a very strong, very well documented bidirectional relationship between mental health and sleep. What makes it so impactful for black women specifically though, is that there are certain societal factors or risk factors that we face that more negatively impact our sleep. Like studies have shown that the more microaggressions or racial discrimination a black person faces, the less of the deep slow wave sleep they have that same night.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:So almost in a one to one relationship. And that's a sleep that we need to be fully restorative and wake up feeling refreshed and our brain to clear waste and all those things. So our risks and chances of getting less sleep and poor quality sleep is higher and it affects all those things that already disproportionately impact us in terms of our physical and mental health. So that makes sleep even more crucial and critical for black women.
Laura Rutledge:I love that because you know there's something that I was reading. I think it was either a Harvard review or a Yale review, but definitely something that accredited lack of sleep being tied to even high blood pressure. And we know that heart disease is the number one killer of Black women. And that is something that we don't even pay attention to when it pertains to how important sleep is tied to even our heart. So that's why I can't stress enough how important this topic truly is.
Laura Rutledge:And the work that you do is incredible because we really take it for granted. And so the reason for even all of this is just the longevity of us, right? We have to live better and in that, you know, with sleep. So I think the term is sleep debt. Is that what it's called?
Laura Rutledge:Like when you're in sleep debt? Yeah, here I am trying to be a little sleep expert myself.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:Think you've learned some things. I like it.
Laura Rutledge:So the sleep debt is super, it's something it's critical and it's important and we don't think about it. And then sometimes we even say to ourselves, Oh, we'll just grab a quick nap. That's not restorative sleep. That's not helping us the way that we think like, Oh, I'll take a little five minute nap because I didn't sleep all night long during the hours that are considered restorative. Our cells are replenishing.
Laura Rutledge:They're doing what they're supposed to do. And we don't even realize that those critical hours are so important. So I love that you spoke about cortisol because stress levels within Black women, that's a whole podcast in itself.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:In itself. And the thing is, I think the thing that works against us too is especially as Black women, we put on these superhero capes, we're the strong black woman, we're taught to push through. We wear so many hats and so many roles and we're their caretaker and we're the bosses and we run things. Like, even though we're experiencing these higher levels of stress and cortisol, we're taught to just push through. And I think that other people view us like we can just take on anything and we start to view that in ourselves and not give ourselves that rest, that self care that we deserve to Even restore if you can push through, it doesn't mean that mentally and physically you are functioning as optimally as you otherwise could and understand that you deserve rest in order to do that.
Laura Rutledge:Absolutely 100%. And one of the things that I know that, black women don't tend to hear often, and I know that you can shed some light on it, is something called sleep hygiene. You know, there is, you know, it's funny because I spoke with even a chiropractor and I didn't know there was spine hygiene. So I'm just saying to myself, wow, you know, this concept of hygiene is always about like what we do with our bodies. But no, there is actually sleep hygiene.
Laura Rutledge:So I would love you to talk a little bit about what that is. What does that look like? You know, we really want everyone to get a real standpoint of understanding like my sleep hygiene is important to me. How does that look for me? So yeah, let's talk a little bit about sleep hygiene.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:Yeah. So sleep hygiene is basically a set of like rules or regulations surrounding sleep to set you up for a healthy sleep life. I just want to make one distinction. Sleep hygiene is important. It sets a foundation, like I said, for healthy sleep.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:With that being said, for people who have chronic insomnia or a sleep disorder, sleep hygiene is important, but not sufficient. So if you feel that you're doing all the things related to healthy sleep and you're still not getting the sleep that you need, it is important that you seek additional help because oftentimes for something like chronic insomnia, it's going to take digger, deepening and more therapeutic practices to improve your sleep. But for the average person who's just like, Hey, I just, I'm not even sure where to start. I don't know what habits are healthy surrounding sleep. Sleep hygiene is important and can definitely be helpful.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:So basically there are the, it's a way you set up your life, your environment to give you the best chances of getting good, healthy quality sleep. Sleep hygiene includes waking up at the same time every single day. Most people don't realize that that's actually the best thing that you can do for your sleep and more important than the time that you go to sleep is the time that you wake up. That is what helps to reinforce your circadian rhythm, that roughly twenty four hour cycle that dictates when you feel awake and alert and then sleepy at night, wake up at the same time every single day. Get natural light exposure within an hour of waking in the morning because light is a strongest factor that influences that circadian rhythm in a way that tells you to be awake and alert.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:Excellent during the day. But the next point in terms of sleep hygiene is to limit that light exposure at night. It tells you to be awake and alert, it shuts off your melatonin release. We want and need that during the day. Conversely, though, as you're trying to go to sleep, we don't want light telling us that actually it's daytime, it's time to be awake, let's not release a melatonin.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:So dim the lights, limit light exposure, ideally within an hour or two before bedtime, and then no lights while you're sleeping. Like you should sleep in a pitch black room that you can't even see your hand in front of your face. Having a bedtime routine, a way to transition you from activity, stress, excitement of the day to the calm and peace of the night. Limiting, we said light exposure, but then noise or changes in volume or tone of noise, I should say at night. So either having it completely quiet or a continuous soothing sound like a white noise, green noise, whatever, many different rainbow colors of noises, but something that doesn't change in terms of tone and value of sound and then sleeping in a cool space.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:So your body temperature has to decrease by one to two degrees in order for you to transition to maintain sleep. Your body temperature along with your cortisol naturally rises in the early morning hours as you're approaching the time you wanna wake up. And that is what signals to your brain that it's time to wake up. What that means is if you sleep in a space that's too warm, you could be sending those signals too early. And so that leads to broken quality sleep, waking up in the middle of the night, etcetera.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:So cool space research says 62 to 67 degrees Fahrenheit. I would say that's a good place to start in terms of like sleep hygiene rules, regulations. Oh, and then lastly, I would say using your bed for sleep and sex only, and not using it for other activities that can detract from your brain's connection between your bed and sleep. So eating, talking on the phone, watching TV, working is one of the worst things you can do in bed. You want to preserve that bed sleep relationship.
Laura Rutledge:Beautiful, I love that. And I would love to know for longevity purposes, what is that magic number of hours that you need for sleep? Like what is it? Like what should we always be aiming for when it comes to sleep?
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:Great question. And it's one of the most common questions I'm asked. And my answer is it depends. I like to say sleep need is like shoe size. There is no one size fits all, right?
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:So most people have heard the recommendation you should be getting seven to eight hours of sleep on average. If you look at the research in terms of longevity, they tend to use a seven hour benchmark. So studies have shown that sleeping less than seven hours has negative impacts in terms of longevity, more tends to be more positive. But with that being said, it's an average. So the reason that that number is there is because that is the average amount that's optimal for most people or the, should say the average person, but just like shoe size, the average woman shoe size in The U S is somewhere between eight and eight and a half, but plenty of women wearing five, nine, ten, etcetera.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:So if you wear a size ten, but you're to squeeze into those size eights because of the average, it's not gonna be uncomfortable, right? But I say you need to determine what your individual sleep need is. Mine is nine hours. I need nine hours of sleep to feel fully rested, functioning optimally, ready to go. If I get seven, I'm sleep deprived.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:I've built up two hours of sleep that for that night. And so there's no sense in trying to squeeze, like you should just get this number, you should get this number. It is important to determine what your individual number is and then aim for that on most nights.
Laura Rutledge:Smart, smart. Yeah, that's really, that's why I talk about that sleep debt, because even for me, I know my number, I have to get seven or more. It has to be seven or more, but let's talk to the women who may not be able to get that seven or more, depending on what is, what can they do? Like what are some things that they can prioritize? What are some like key hacks or concepts that you have that only a sleep doctor would tell us, but we wouldn't know to ask those questions because we don't get access to a sleep doctor all the time.
Laura Rutledge:So what would be like some things that really super busy women, you know, that really want that sleep, that know that they're operating in a deficit? What is it that they could do?
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:So first of all, I always say, and I work with, the clients that I work with are busy professionals. And, like myself, when I was going through insomnia, I was a resident working eighty hours a week. And so I often couldn't reach my sleep need. With that being said, I recommend starting with an audit of your day and where your time is truly going. Because when I do this with clients, we often find that there's a little more time to sleep than we initially thought, but maybe we're not prioritizing it in a way that we thought that we were.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:Right? So when I say prioritize sleep, don't mean go to work, come home, take care of home duties, binge watch your shows, scroll to social media for a couple hours, dibble and dabble on a little work and then say, okay, whatever time is left for sleep, I'm asleep. That's not prioritizing sleep. It's really starting your day with sleep in mind. The way that I have had to operate in my life, especially now that I'm a mom, I actually am even more diligent about it, is I block off nine hours from ten to seven I'm sleeping.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:That is one thing I do know. And then what else do I have to do around that? So I pick everything else around my sleep because I do it better and I do it more efficiently. So I would say start there, but there are some people who truly like, I just can't meet that sleep need. And in those situations, understand that your sleep quality is more important than your sleep quantity.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:So if you can get, you know, my sleep need is nine hours, right? But if I can get seven hours of quality, continuous sleep, it is much better than nine hours of broken quality sleep, right? So your quality is most important and what contributes to most of your quality is your regularity. So that gets me back to the point of waking up at the same time every day, attempting to go to sleep at the same time every day, understanding if you're not sleepy at your bedtime, don't go to sleep, but the attempt should be made there. Making sure you're limiting things that can negatively impact your sleep quality, like caffeine too late in the day, taking naps that are too long or too late in the day that impact your quality, wine or alcohol that could impact, your sleep quality, doing things that enhance your sleep quality, like exercise, light exposure.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:So you want to control the variables that you can control. And if you can't meet that sleep need, focus on quality, regularity, and limiting things that negatively impact your sleep quality.
Laura Rutledge:I like that. Yeah, definitely. Because for me, I work a lot at night. Sometimes at night is the time where I can really catch up on things from the office. It's just the time that I can do everything.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:Yeah.
Laura Rutledge:But what I have started to do is make it a hard stop.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:Yes.
Laura Rutledge:That is one of the things that it's about boundaries.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:Yes.
Laura Rutledge:And when we really look at it, our sleep quality really is tied to our self care and self worth because I know I deserve to sleep. I deserve to feel great. That's the part that I think a lot of us think like, I gotta get this done. It will be there. That's the one thing I always say, it will be there.
Laura Rutledge:And even if you can get something done, just know that just tapping away at something will accomplish something. You're not starting from ground zero, but your sleep, you can't get it back.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:You can't get it back. And guess what? You're going to do whatever that is so much better when you're well rested. I guarantee you. Absolutely.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:The time that you have to take to redirect your attention, you're moving slow like, oh, what was that? Now I'm forgetting things like you're doing, you're not doing a good job at any way. So you might as well get sleep and then come back to when you're refreshed and ready to go. And I guarantee you the finished products will be better.
Laura Rutledge:Absolutely. Because I do know when I start spinning in a circle,
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:like when
Laura Rutledge:I know I'm tired and I'm getting sleepy, I'm like, okay, I, okay, I'm opening the same tab twice. I'm doing that's when I know it's time to hang it up. It's time to get rest. And I think that I'm getting older now. I'm also perimenopausal.
Laura Rutledge:So I know that if I don't prioritize getting in the bed, I may wake up over some, it could be something that way I could go to the bathroom and then it's hard to fall back asleep. I'm training myself because one of the things, and this is just on from my earlier career, I was, you know, I worked in the music industry. So we were trained to watch our phones all the time at night, like if anything going on, an emergency, anything like that, we were trained and that was hard to break because I had been doing it for so long. So I learned like once the phone goes off, don't touch it. Even if you wake up in the middle of the night, don't touch it because you are training your brain it's time to get up.
Laura Rutledge:And so these are the things that we normally don't have these conversations, you know, with our girlfriend or whoever, like we're not talking about those things, but no, these little things have helped. And I can say in my older age, I've gotten much better sleep than when I was much younger.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:Wow, that's amazing. That is so weird. Yeah, because
Laura Rutledge:it takes time. And then I saw how my body was responding. Like even when you step on the scale, you're like, wait a minute. From a night's rest, I dropped three pounds. Like things like that, I started to notice as I've gotten older, but with getting older comes wisdom.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:That intentionality, right? To really see how it's affecting you and to make small changes that add up over time. Simply not looking at your phone overnight makes a huge difference because when you look at that time, when you wake up, your brain is like, okay, let's count down how much time we have left to sleep. And that causes you to be alert and vigilant. When you're checking notifications, when you're like that trains your brain to be on.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:Even when you're sleeping, it trains your brain to be in a lighter stage of sleep because, Hey, something might come through and I have to check that. And so you're not getting that deep restorative quality of sleep. Something that has really helped me. And I've been doing this for years and years and years. But especially now is I have my phone automatically go on, do not disturb at 9PM.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:I don't have to like turn it off. It automatically turns on. So that's one less step. That's a less of an activation energy I have to expend to like, okay, let me turn this off so I don't get notifications. It automatically does.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:So I'm not hearing the chimes and the bings and all the things. And I've trained other people in my life to understand that after 9PM, unless it's an emergency, access to me is denied. I will talk to you in the morning. But they respect that because I've put those boundaries into place for myself because I respect my sleep, my self care, and what restores me. And so that's how we also have to operate in our lives.
Laura Rutledge:That's perfect. That's perfection. And that's why it's all tied into boundaries, right? It's all tied into self care. It's all tied into, no, it can wait.
Laura Rutledge:I think there's a lot of things that we're prioritizing because of lack of boundaries that tap into us losing said sleep. You know what I mean? I know that doom scrolling is like the number one reason why people are not sleeping properly. Looking at that light well into the wee hours of the morning, it's killing you. Like it's killing your brain, like the doom scrolling.
Laura Rutledge:And I think that once we start to prioritize like what matters more, sleep starts to become one of the primal things that you are creating, like you look forward to going to bed.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:Yes.
Laura Rutledge:When body hits that cool bed. I'm telling you, it's the best part of my day. I know that. I know I'm looking forward to going to bed tonight. Like sleep is that amazing.
Laura Rutledge:And I think that it was so important to really talk about this because we're not getting it. So my question to you is this, let's say a listener is listening right now and they're like, listen, I want to feel what you guys are feeling. I want to sleep too. I want to do, you know, what you guys are talking about. What is the one thing if you don't do anything else?
Laura Rutledge:What is the one thing that they can do today that would, you know, set them up, you know, on a pathway to getting that phenomenal sleep? I know that we tapped on insomnia being something chronic and, you know, I do want to get into, I don't want to lose the people that actually really need help with insomnia, but for the person who's listening to this, was like, yeah, I really want to sleep well. I want to sleep better. What's that one thing that they can do?
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:Set that consistent wake time and by consistent within an hour of day to day, right? So for my people who I know like, but I don't get to sleep in, I get it an hour. Okay. So you normally wake up at seven, you can sleep in to about eight. And in the way I like people to think about it is most people spend five days exhausted, sleep deprived, just making it through.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:And they live for those two days where they get to sleep in and throw off their sleep even more. Then five days I'm struggling. So I understand it feels good to sleep in, but imagine how much better it'll feel to be rested all seven days of the week. It really is significant and honestly life changing. Make the commitment that you know what, I'm gonna wake up.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:If my wake time is seven between seven and eight every single day, every single day, no matter what, just set that timer and then build on that. That's the other thing too. Some people think that, oh, I have to overhaul every single thing that I do. And it's kind of like when you're going on a diet, right? And it's like, if you're saying, okay, I'm only eating fruits and vegetables and only high protein, 160 grams a day, I'm going to get 10,000 steps.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:I'm to work out every single day. You say you're going to do all that, it's like it's this insurmountable task. And so most people are less likely to do it. If you start with one habit, but then build over it, it becomes something that's easier to accomplish and you'll see the improvements over time. So make one change, build on that.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:But if you do nothing else, keep that wake time consistent. And I promise you it will improve your sleep.
Laura Rutledge:That's very true. I mean, innately for me, my body's always waking me up exactly 7AM every day. I'm not the 5AM girl. I'm not, let's be for real. Let's stop the performative stuff.
Laura Rutledge:Let's just be very for real because if we're going to bed like twelve, one, like how some people are and waking up five and doing the workouts and the green juices and let's just be for real. Let's talk real life. Let's talk longevity. Let's talk what our body really needs. Let's go to bed at night.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:Let's go to bed Yes. At And there's nothing that's really better about 5AM. I hate if you're a super early bird and your circadian rhythm naturally wakes you up at that time. Excellent. But there's nothing that makes 5AM better than 7AM or whatever.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:The most important thing is that you're meeting your sleep need, you're getting good sleep quality and you work with the schedule that works for you. You don't, it's you. I will not be getting up to 5AM to do anything, besides catch a flight if I have to. Otherwise, no, thank you.
Laura Rutledge:Exactly. And I think that that's something that when people listen to those successful, you know, like, oh, they're up at five. You can do that if let's say you're going to bed at eight or you're going, and most of us, let's be very for real, we're not. Mothers, the business women, the career women, we're not, we're not going. If you are, that's fantastic.
Laura Rutledge:Then maybe you need to teach us some things like how are you going to bed at eight with all that you've got going on? But I think that we're talking to the mass majority of us that are stressed out, that are chronically sleep deprived, that our nervous system is shot, our cortisol levels are through the roof because we're not sleeping when we're supposed to be sleeping. And I think that's more so what we want to make sure that you understand that you can control it. You can pick and choose how well you want to design your sleep life. And I think that that's something that we don't hear as often as we should.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:So
Laura Rutledge:my last question, I'm just going to end with this final question because I'm just, I'm enjoying this because you're kind of validating, some kind of dusting my shoulder.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:You're kind
Laura Rutledge:of validating some of the things that I kind of knew about sleep, but no, it's good to learn, like even just when you wake up that your cortisol levels are rising as you wake, like I didn't know that. So, and then for me, I always have to take care of those things for me because with cortisol, that's the belly fat, that's all the things that come along with, and if you are finding a way to lower that naturally, then we need to hear more about things like that because that's super, super important. So if the listeners could take one thing away from you, one thing today, if they just had to be like, this is the one thing that I heard that I know for a fact that I'm going to take with me, what would that be?
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:It's actually something that you said earlier that I was like, oh, you are literally speaking my language. And it is that above all of this, you deserve to sleep. You deserve to rest. Rest is not a reward that you earn at the end of a day, long as you've gotten enough stuff done, as long you've been as productive as you should be, then I'll treat myself with rest. By virtue of existing, you deserve to rest.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:One of my favorite quotes and the way that I end almost every single talk I do is instead of asking myself, have I worked hard enough to deserve to rest? I've started asking myself, have I rested enough to do my best work? And I think when you put it in that mind frame that rest is a foundation of living a happy, healthy, optimal life and allows you to give the best of you in all that you do, then you understand how important it is to prioritize it. Then it's worth making some of the sacrifices necessary to get the rest, but you have to believe that you deserve it first and you have to believe that it's one of the most important things you can do for your mental and physical health. So I want to leave people with that.
Laura Rutledge:I love it. Thank you so much, Doctor. Bell. Had so much fun. Feel like it was so good to just hear, like some of the things that are affirming.
Laura Rutledge:You know, I think the affirmation in it is what, like, we don't want to be the ones to give you permission that you have to sleep, but you giving yourself that permission is already a form of liberation and self care and boundary setting, which is some of the things that we tend to have problems with, which is setting those boundaries. If the more we recognize it, the more we understand, even just watching how our bodies change over time with better sleep, I think that we'll really start to see the prize and the benefit in it all. Thank you so much for sharing. It means a lot because I think more and more, the more conversations like this, the more we can change people to understand that they have the power to choose.
Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell:Absolutely. I agree. And thank you for creating a platform that allows us to do that. Thank you.