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In "Lost in the Feed," we dive deep into the digital landscape, exploring how social media shapes our perceptions and relationships. This episode examines the illusion of connection that platforms create, leaving us feeling both connected and isolated. Join us as we unpack the complexities of online interactions, the impact on mental health, and how to navigate the noise to find genuine connections in a world dominated by curated feeds.
Creators & Guests
What is The Shrink Down?
Four lifelong friends, all clinical psychologists, unpack the latest in current events, pop culture and celebrity news through the lens of psychology.
Vanessa (00:01.11)
Welcome to the Shrink Down. We are four lifelong friends, also licensed clinical psychologists, who are gonna be talking about things that pop up on social media and the news. We thank you for listening in today and welcome back anyone who's listens to our first two podcasts. Today we're gonna be talking about phone use, screen time, social media, all the things.
What sparked their interest in this was Jonathan Haidt, is a psychologist who came out with a book recently called The Anxious Generation. And he's been interviewed a ton. I'm sure you've probably seen or heard of him. He has a great Instagram where he's on Instagram and he posts some really good just like little bits of information. His book is really dense. It's really good, but it's dense. So that's like a really good place to just get some snippets.
We've all seen posts about, you know, using too much screen time isn't good for kids, but it's not just kids, it's also adults. So today we're gonna be talking about use in both adults and kids. Before we get into it today, we are gonna be sharing our four minute faves. This is where we share either a book that we love, a movie, it could be a hack, it could also be a beauty product. So something that we have loved for a long time, some kind of OG favorite of ours, or something new that we've come across.
Lauren (01:17.706)
Mm
Vanessa (01:19.077)
So let's get into it today. Wilhelmina, what are you sharing with us today?
Wilhelmina (01:23.829)
So yeah, I'm going to bring back an oldie but a goodie. I have been reading Untangled by Lisa DeMore. It is a book that was put out several years ago. In fact, I think she's many books since, two more books since Untangled. And it goes through, it really talks about how parents can navigate the teen years in girls specifically.
Lauren (01:40.778)
A couple cents.
Teri (01:41.732)
Two more cents.
Wilhelmina (01:53.877)
And I'm reading it because my daughter just turned 12 and we are starting to enter that, the hormones, the emotions. And I found like myself questioning like, my gosh, what is going on? How do I, what, how do I manage this? And what I love about this book is that she really approaches adolescents from like, there's so many things that are normal. they are, they're going from children to adults.
Vanessa (02:00.525)
Ha
Wilhelmina (02:21.383)
And there are ways that they sort of break away from childhood into adulthood. And there are so many things that are so normal that are scary for us as parents because they kind of become different people, but they're all normal. So she says, here's the seven kind of stages you can look for. Here's what's happening within them. Here's what is normal. Here's what you can do as parents to like navigate that. And then she also kind of gives some snippets of like, if this is
beyond this, then here are some resources too. But so many of the things that, like myself even, like I've been like scared and sort of sad because I'm like, what happened to my little girl? And she's like, this is normal. This is all normal. They're practicing adulthood. They're having lots of hormones and they're breaking free from their, breaking away from their childhood. And so it's been so helpful.
Lauren (03:00.849)
Yeah
Vanessa (03:01.59)
Right. Right.
Lauren (03:04.503)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (03:18.761)
for me. just keep, I'm listening to it and I just, I keep kind of plugging away and then when my daughter has another meltdown, can kind of, Lisa, talk to me. Tell me what to do.
Lauren (03:24.226)
of the rain.
Right. Please.
Vanessa (03:30.68)
I her view of the world is changing, right? The lens is changing and that's confusing, right? And so that's where you're seeing some of that kind of turmoil with the emotions as, I think kids are very, you know, when they're little, it's like, it's just them in the world. And now all of sudden, you know, they're getting older and they're like, wait, there's other people in the world, right? And, you know, how do I interact with them and how do I engage with them? And yeah, so it's also, she may not realize it, but I think it's scary for her too, probably at times, right?
Wilhelmina (03:35.305)
Yeah, it is.
Lauren (03:37.225)
Hey.
Lauren (03:49.28)
that abstract thinking.
Wilhelmina (03:49.481)
Yes.
Wilhelmina (03:57.373)
Yep. And we've noticed that when she's overtired and yesterday she had a big meltdown and she had just come from this babysitting course that she's taking, babysitting for success. And so she's learning to like, here's what I do, here's what I do. And she came home and she literally had the biggest meltdown. And we were like, what happened? And all of a sudden we're like, this happened two days ago.
Lauren (03:57.505)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (04:23.847)
after the babysitting class as well. And it was sort of like, yes, like this idea that she would then be the person in charge. She would be, it made so much sense to us that we were able to just sort of sit with her and be, and even though it seemed insane. Yeah, at one point my husband brought her water and she's like, dad's poisoning my water. And I'm like, well, no, no, he's not. But okay, know, okay, it's okay.
Lauren (04:26.434)
just overwhelming.
Lauren (04:31.702)
Yes. Aww. Yeah.
Teri (04:32.528)
Mm -hmm.
Vanessa (04:40.146)
Hahaha!
Lauren (04:40.926)
Yeah.
Right.
Lauren (04:49.14)
Probably not, no.
Teri (04:50.735)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (04:52.639)
We're just gonna sit here and just be.
Lauren (04:54.518)
You know what, your recommendation is such a good reminder, Wilhelmina, for everybody that just because we have studied all of this, and we know all of this, when it's our own kiddo, we go to the resources as well. So we're big fans of, you know, practicing what we preach.
Wilhelmina (05:11.081)
Yeah, absolutely.
Vanessa (05:11.575)
Absolutely.
All right, Terry, what are you loving and sharing with us today?
Teri (05:18.103)
Okay, so we actually touched on this person last episode Demi Moore and About six months ago. I was with my kids at the library Just looking for something to check out and on the shelf was Demi Moore's memoir I believe it's called inside out. I forgot it's a it's Demi Moore's memoir I'll find out the exact title and I am partial to memoirs as it is. I like reading about
Lauren (05:41.527)
the
Teri (05:46.383)
different people's lives, historical figures, current people who are still alive, not alive. And yes, I'm a big, big JFK buff and JFK Jr. Forget about him, the most handsomest man in the world. Still, still. And it was a great read. It was an ode to the 80s.
Vanessa (05:50.402)
JFK.
Wilhelmina (05:51.802)
Hahaha!
Lauren (05:51.807)
Yeah.
Lauren (05:55.798)
Yes. That's right.
Wilhelmina (05:58.771)
Mm -hmm, me too.
Teri (06:09.809)
and the Brat Pack and all of those movies. And I was born in 1981, so a lot of what they referenced, I was a kid, but I remember mid 80s and being a kid and the movies coming out. And it was just such a lovely, wonderful read. I have such a deeper appreciation for Demi Moore as an actress and a person. What originally caught my eye was I was curious about her marriage to Bruce Willis. And I remember that being in the media a lot a while back and then her marriage to Ashton Kutcher.
Wilhelmina (06:34.399)
Mm
Lauren (06:37.078)
Yeah.
Teri (06:39.557)
So that's what sort of sparked my interest in, I'm going to give this a read. But she goes through her childhood, her adolescence, all of her different events in adulthood. And it is just a really good, easy read. a fun read, like a beach read. So I would recommend it.
Lauren (06:52.983)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (06:54.815)
How does it rank with Rob Lowe? Because you gave me Rob Lowe's memoir, his first one, years ago. And I loved that one. It was so good. OK. OK.
Teri (07:00.851)
I liked that one too. Yeah, On par. I loved Rob Lowe's memoir and I loved it. On par.
Lauren (07:02.443)
Mm -hmm
Wilhelmina (07:09.503)
Because similar, talked about the 80s. It talked about his rise, like his initial like rise like to the top in such a short period of time. That was so good. So good. Such a good recommendation you gave me.
Teri (07:18.532)
Yes.
Vanessa (07:21.26)
Awesome. All right, Lauren, what do you love and sharing with us today?
Lauren (07:25.42)
So this week in particular, this is not new, but what I'm loving and cheering is Vicks on socks before kids go to bed when they have a cold. Do you guys do this? You don't? I know, I know, it's I know. This is not new. But when I tell you, I am so thankful for, this is my fave this week. Both my kids came down with that, we're back to school for three weeks cold. That like everybody I swear across the nation is struggling with right now if you're a parent.
Teri (07:35.279)
That is old school. I've heard of it, but I've never done it.
Vanessa (07:36.492)
That's old school. No, I don't.
Lauren (07:55.19)
whatever germs it is. Now, thankfully, my kiddos just got that cold, but the Vicks on socks before they went to bed, I know there's zero research behind it, but it's like for me, it's like chicken soup, right? And like how that makes you feel better. It helps them sleep. It makes them feel better, whether it's placebo or not. They get over those colds in like zero time. So Vicks on socks, pretty simple, right?
Teri (08:19.121)
Do you put it on, do you rub it on the foot and then put the sock over it or do you put it in the sock? you smear it inside. Got it. Okay.
Lauren (08:23.616)
I put it on the sock. Good question. Inside out sock. do. No, so I turn the sock inside out, smear a good layer on the bottom of the sock and then put the sock on the feet. my boys love it. We've been doing this forever because I think us as 80s children, we grew up with this, right?
Teri (08:35.601)
I'm going to try this.
Vanessa (08:43.48)
I mean, feel like VIX is one of those things, like fix it all, like sort of thing. Yeah, exactly. It's like, you're coming out with something? Get some VIX.
Lauren (08:46.304)
Right? Right. It's like Windex from, like Windex from, what is that? My big fat Greek. Seriously. And we love Vix in our household. But again, like this week, my husband was traveling. Both boys had a cold at, of course, different times because it's never at the same time. And I'm telling you Vix on socks and they sleep well. And then that's that good sleep knocks it right out of them. So pretty simple, but like a good reminder to everybody. Vanessa, what you got?
Wilhelmina (08:46.399)
Yup. Rub it on the chest!
Teri (08:46.575)
Yes.
Wilhelmina (08:53.823)
You
Vanessa (09:15.618)
So I'm gonna be sharing a makeup product. So the reason why I thought of this is, well, I love it, but this person I followed on Instagram, Courtney Shields, is co -founder of a brand called Dibs. So I know I've talked to you guys about this. And so, yes, so they have some of my favorite makeup products. But the reason why I thought of it is because it's now available in Ulta. So before you used to have to order it online. So now her products are available in Ulta.
Lauren (09:28.054)
know her.
Wilhelmina (09:31.017)
Yep, you've recommended me.
Lauren (09:41.964)
Ow.
Vanessa (09:45.16)
And she's touring, like stopping if in different cities. I shouldn't say touring. Well, I guess it's touring. Go stopping off at different altas in different cities. And, you know, she is in Chicago right now. And that's my hometown. And I love it. And so I was like, Chicago. And I love the product. So I will say my two favorites that I love is she has a brush that it's on one side. It's for like powdered makeup. The other side is for the not liquid. Yeah, liquids. And so.
I never really cared about brushes. Like I'm like one of those people who walks in like Marshall's and sees the like 599 brushes. And I'm like, yeah, that's great. That sounds good. I'll just take that. But I swear this brush is amazing. So I will say the brush is worth the money. It is so good. It just blends the products in really well. And then the other thing that they have, it's like a duo side. It's like a stick. And so on one side, it is blush.
And it's a cream base. And then the other side is like for contouring. And so that product is just amazing. I love it. So dibs. that's my love for today's dibs. And what made me think of it is she's in Chicago and I miss Chicago.
Lauren (10:46.39)
Nice.
Teri (10:52.663)
Is it D? We miss you. D -I -V dib dibs.
Wilhelmina (10:55.625)
D -I -I -N
Vanessa (10:55.672)
Yeah, so it's D -I -B -S. Yeah, so it's Desert Island Beauty Status is what it stands for, DIBS. So yeah, so now you can go to Ulta and you can find it there. You don't have to order online. So you can actually like, which I think is nice is that you can like look at the different colors. So there's like lots of different shades. Because I think it's kind of hard sometimes to like order stuff like online if you can't see it. So I've kind of figured out just based on like looking at like, you know, different people who tried things on, I like, okay, I think that's good. But sometimes you just, it's
Lauren (11:09.932)
That is nice.
Lauren (11:14.614)
Really hard. Yes. Yeah.
Lauren (11:23.532)
Yeah.
Vanessa (11:24.64)
it's better to see it in person. that's my share for today is dibs.
Lauren (11:26.902)
Nice.
Wilhelmina (11:28.797)
And one of the things you had recommended that for me for contouring, and I got also one of the things that's a double -sided thing, but it's supposed to match your pH for the blush. I love that. I actually will put that one on if I'm going to drop off the kids at school and I'm just putting on a little something. And it just creates that just little rosy glow. I love it. So yeah, I love it.
Vanessa (11:39.376)
that one. Yeah, she's got one like that. Yeah. That one.
Lauren (11:52.304)
rosy cheeks. Nice.
Vanessa (11:54.05)
I haven't tried that one, that shade, yeah. Well, that's good to know, because I was curious. I was like, I wonder how that works. Well, good to know.
Wilhelmina (11:58.525)
I wouldn't wear it for like, I kind of just liked it as a little like, you just want a little something. It wouldn't be like, yeah, just a little pick me up. But I do, if I'm like gonna go to yoga or orange theory, I'll just like a little color in the cheeks. And I like that one.
Vanessa (12:02.636)
Well, pick me up.
Vanessa (12:11.392)
Yeah, you're good. Awesome. All right, so today we're going to be talking about phone use, social media use, in any kind of screen time really, in both kids and adults. And so I wanted to start off by just sharing some stats because I thought this was interesting because I wondered like, what's the average amount of time that adults spend on their phone each day? Have you guys looked this up?
Lauren (12:37.098)
I know what mine tells me every week. No, no.
Vanessa (12:38.36)
Okay, right. have you guys looked it up at all? Do you guys know? If you looked it up, don't say, okay, what do you think it is? Take a guess. Yeah, so this is the average American spends on their phone each day. Okay. Okay. Okay, so this says the average American spends four hours and 37 minutes on their phone each day, which is equivalent to 70 days per year. But here's, it does break down. So you're not wrong. So, but then they break it down to like generation. So for,
Wilhelmina (12:39.016)
Yeah.
Lauren (12:44.716)
Ugh.
Teri (12:45.157)
Is that the question?
Four is my guess.
Lauren (12:52.428)
Sex.
Wilhelmina (12:53.429)
I was gonna guess six.
Wilhelmina (13:03.015)
don't I don't know.
Lauren (13:03.036)
gross.
Vanessa (13:08.088)
So that's just Americans in general. So Gen Z's, six hours and five minutes per day. Baby boomers, three hours and 31 minutes per day. So again, that's the average for everybody, but then depending on like your age bracket, you're gonna spend more or less time. Yeah, I don't have stats for them. So yeah.
Wilhelmina (13:13.528)
Lauren (13:13.878)
Okay.
Lauren (13:18.262)
Okay.
Lauren (13:24.672)
What about Gen X?
Interesting. Yeah. I'm like, well, well, we're probably four hours. I was going to say mine is usually four hours a day, per week. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. It doesn't surprise me though that the younger generation is obviously skewing it. Right?
Teri (13:29.263)
No one cares about us.
Vanessa (13:31.64)
because we're like that weird kind of we're probably in the middle like what's between six and three yeah we're probably four hours
Teri (13:36.113)
Where's right? Yep.
Vanessa (13:40.054)
Yes. Isn't that crazy? That's a lot. how do
Wilhelmina (13:47.667)
yeah.
Vanessa (13:49.196)
And do know who spends the most amount of time on social media?
Teri (13:55.621)
boomers.
Wilhelmina (13:57.109)
I was gonna say that.
Vanessa (13:58.2)
It's women, no, women age 16, no, women age 16 to 24. No, social media. So it's women age 16 to 24, social media, sorry. Yeah, that was social media specific. It was 16 to 24. Yep, young girls, yep, yep, yep.
Lauren (13:58.315)
women in their 40s.
Wilhelmina (14:00.371)
I would've been in the 40s. Perry menopause search.
Lauren (14:03.946)
No, media.
Teri (14:04.018)
Lauren (14:10.714)
yeah, women. yeah, young girls. Ugh. that's awful.
Wilhelmina (14:14.022)
yeah, that makes sense.
Teri (14:14.159)
Hmm. Yeah. Well, I will say to kick this off, this is Terry, that I have tried to dramatically shift both my screen time and my social media usage since The Anxious Generation was published a couple months ago. And what was really a wake -up call for me is the fact that my oldest child is nine. And while we are
Lauren (14:20.82)
Yeah
Teri (14:41.009)
Ideally, hopefully, waiting until high school to get a smartphone, obviously social media after that, that is a mere few years away. And the reality being his, what my husband and I do in our household matters a hundred times more than what we say. And having my cell phone ever present in my hands, even when legitimately more than 50 % of the time it's likely work related, doesn't matter.
Lauren (14:57.334)
Mm
Teri (15:09.531)
My husband and I joke with each other. We'll say, it matter? Being on your phone is being on your phone. And what I found helpful for myself is just deleting some of the apps. Like I will delete Instagram for a couple of weeks or even a month or two, or even just a week. Because if the app is there, it's Pavlovian. It's almost automatic. I'm in line at the grocery store. I'm in line at Target. I'll just check this out. And so what's been huge for me at least is the recognition that
There is someone, two people actually, have a seven year old and a nine year old in my house and time goes by so quickly, especially in parenting land, that I know we are gonna be navigating, even if we follow appropriate boundaries, we're still gonna be navigating it very soon and I have to force myself to do better. That being said, I am also very thankful that, I often joke, I don't know if I would have gotten a PhD if social media and cell phones.
I mean, what a distraction. Imagine trying to write a dissertation with social media around. It is, I am so thankful for having a childhood and adolescence and even young adulthood without any of those available, but they also are sort of like brain candy. I mean, I certainly find my, right? Like my husband and I put the kids to bed and we're side by side scrolling our phones and we laugh about it.
Vanessa (16:08.682)
yeah, absolutely.
Lauren (16:08.826)
Right. Right.
Vanessa (16:26.772)
Yeah, I mean, I'm on.
I mean, I will absolutely say that I use my phone way too much. And it's crazy because, like you said, work. So I feel like it started off with work. So when I open my own private practice, you're solo, right? You need your clients. You have this drive to answer right away because they could go find someone else, right? So constantly checking my email. But you're right. It doesn't matter if it's work or not work. They see you on your phone.
Lauren (16:30.348)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Teri (16:50.747)
Yes.
Vanessa (16:58.712)
and my daughter is seven and she, think last year when she was six, she started asking me, when do I get a phone? And I was like, like she's already asking. So we've already had a conversation. We've already starting that conversation about when you're getting a phone. And I told her, well, when you're in a teenager, when you're high school and she said, you mean 18? And I said, yes, yes, when you're 18. So, and I know that that's probably that's not realistic 18, but we're already having that conversation about this is not something you're gonna get.
Lauren (17:05.387)
yeah.
Lauren (17:17.858)
Sounds good. Yes.
Vanessa (17:28.394)
as a kid, right, or even a preteen. She knows that, that we need to be older to get it. And I've been trying to be more mindful too of not having my phone all the time with me or in my hand. You know, I've been trying to like, when she gets home from school to like put it away and not be like, I just got to do one more work thing. I just got to, you know, and it's hard. It's so hard. It's so hard.
Teri (17:45.265)
Hmm.
Teri (17:51.089)
It is.
Wilhelmina (17:51.701)
It is so hard. And so my daughter is 12. She started middle school this year. And I will say the majority of her friends got cell phones over the summer. mm -hmm, yep. 11, yeah, 11 to 12 year olds. Maddie's an old 12. So like she's the first, so most of them are 11. And...
Teri (18:06.095)
So summer before sixth grade.
Vanessa (18:09.816)
So these are like 11 to 12 euros. Yep.
Wilhelmina (18:20.809)
My daughter knew because I've been telling her forever that she's not getting a smartphone until she is older. So she knew she wasn't going to get one. But then we started running into there are no home phones anymore. there's no pay phones anymore. So now she's taking the bus. She's wanting to see if she can be with friends. And there's no way that she can call me without like I used to
Lauren (18:36.822)
Right?
Vanessa (18:38.2)
Thank
Wilhelmina (18:49.809)
use the school phone, the phone in the office. That doesn't happen. So we ended up getting my daughter an old school flip phone. yes. Yep. She loves it. Yep. And she loves it. She feels like she's so excited. She gets to text her friends still. She can still send a little. She does it with the press the number three times to get the letter and old school.
Vanessa (18:51.221)
you
Teri (18:53.179)
Mm -hmm.
Teri (19:02.513)
That's great.
Lauren (19:03.719)
Yep. Yeah, dumb, they call it a dumb phone. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (19:19.657)
She loves it. So it gives her that she's able to call, she's able to, but she's not, that's it. It's not anything else because I was like, nope, we're not starting this yet. We're not staring at the screen just yet.
Lauren (19:32.396)
You know, it's hard.
Teri (19:32.561)
that provides the autonomy that she needs at that age, but without that full access, unrestricted access.
Lauren (19:41.058)
But you know, it's interesting what you said, why aren't schools allowing kids to go to the office and use their phone? And that's gonna have to shift back to being allowed as hopefully, and at least in my personal world, I've seen, you know, my boy's school has banned cell phones from the school. Not only goes up to eighth grade, but they are encouraging kids if you need to make a call, our office is available.
Wilhelmina (19:49.385)
Right.
Teri (19:50.001)
Mm
Wilhelmina (20:00.981)
Mm -hmm.
Lauren (20:09.164)
We're going to need more of that within schools across, well, not just the United States. I mean, this is going on in developed countries. The statistics are all over the place that we're all too married to our technology. But we're going to need more of that ability. Like you were saying, if she can't go to the office and say, can I make a quick call to my mom about how I'm getting home, right? I want to go with this friend and not on the bus or something like that.
Vanessa (20:10.274)
That's nice.
Lauren (20:36.674)
that that's gonna be a detriment to encouraging groups of people, because that's what we're gonna need, right? Because that's what has caused all of this is like you said, seeing everybody in her age group, her class getting a phone, right? So in order to kind of shift the narrative, I think what Terry started off with the behavior at home, of course, that's paramount. That's number one, what parents are doing, kids pay attention to all habits.
Vanessa (20:59.158)
Yep, the parents. Yep.
Wilhelmina (21:01.065)
That's number one.
Lauren (21:04.482)
And our phones are becoming one of those things. So if parents sit on the couch all night long, kids pay attention to that. If parents say, let's go for a walk after dinner, that just is a habit that gets built into their brain. Same with the phone. But it can't just be the parents. It's got to be sort of this collective push toward shifting the narrative. And we have to. Because now we have the research.
Teri (21:05.339)
Hmm.
Teri (21:27.835)
Community culture. Yeah. Yeah.
Vanessa (21:28.63)
Yeah. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (21:29.438)
Yes.
Lauren (21:34.208)
Before we.
Teri (21:34.555)
We didn't before, it was hypothesized. Right.
Vanessa (21:36.448)
Even though it was more anecdotal, you're like, I think, Yes, yeah. Yeah.
Lauren (21:39.104)
We all just said like, seems like it's not great. And you remember that article that came out, this was a couple of years ago. And I know we've all referenced it in our actual private practice with families. There was a study that came out that was talking about, why aren't kids meeting their milestones in adolescence like they used to be. And it was about driver's license and part -time jobs, right?
Teri (21:42.35)
Now we know.
Wilhelmina (21:59.003)
yeah, driver's licenses and such, yes.
Teri (22:01.169)
Hmm.
Vanessa (22:02.412)
Yes.
Lauren (22:05.93)
And there was anecdotal evidence at the time that sitting in their beds and looking at a screen was becoming a problem. But there was also quite a bit of information in that particular research about, we putting too much pressure on academics, extracurriculars? These kids don't have time to do these other developmental tasks. But now we've got the research. We didn't have it then. Now we know how horrible it is for all ages, right? Mental health.
Vanessa (22:33.336)
I think, yes.
Lauren (22:34.914)
physical health, et cetera.
Teri (22:37.105)
Well, and speaking of, right, in your sleep, and one thing that Jonathan Haidt, I've heard him say a few times is, and I think about this often, is once you put that device in front of them, it never goes away for the rest of their life. And I think about how, yes, and right, and so the fact that smartphones, the iPhone came out when I was,
Vanessa (22:37.267)
Sleep and it your sleep.
Lauren (22:41.121)
Yes.
Vanessa (22:52.619)
the rest of their lives. Yep.
Lauren (22:54.646)
He just was talking with hope.
Wilhelmina (22:55.635)
He just did this. He just posted this. Yes. Yes. yeah, yeah, that was it.
Vanessa (22:56.524)
He just, yes. I sent it. I'm looking forward seeing you guys. Yes.
Teri (23:06.321)
27 years old, I was able to go almost 30 years reaching full brain maturation, having tons of rich, wonderful life experiences without that addition. And even giving it to them at 13 or 14, when their prefrontal cortex and certain areas of their brain still has a lot more maturation to go, we're still, it's still gonna be a very different experience for them because once we put that in front of them, it's there.
Lauren (23:08.512)
Right. Right.
Vanessa (23:11.362)
without it. Right.
Lauren (23:13.751)
Right?
Vanessa (23:27.424)
yeah.
Teri (23:35.257)
not to be dramatic, but for the rest of their lives. And yeah.
Vanessa (23:36.728)
the rest of their lives. Yeah. He mentioned you mentioned the other day that he calls a phones experience blockers. And I love that. That's I mean, that is exactly what it is. Yes, all of us. Yes, all of us.
Teri (23:45.145)
And I think that's true for all of us. Yeah, and I think it's true for adults. And this is gonna be a weird stat that I just looked up. But when you talk about that teenagers aren't hitting the traditional teen milestones, think of John Hughes movies, right? Like the different teen milestones, sex rates among teenagers having sex are the lowest they have ever been because they would prefer, because
Lauren (23:45.622)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (23:47.639)
it absolutely is.
Lauren (24:01.601)
NAH
Wilhelmina (24:08.925)
What? Because you can't have sex with a
Vanessa (24:09.804)
because they're not together. You can't have sex unless you're together.
Lauren (24:10.038)
Yeah, they're not in person.
Teri (24:16.497)
Yeah, you must be in the same room to have sex. And yeah, it fell even from 2019 to 2021. So there's COVID, it fell from 38 to 30 % of high school students who reported ever having sex. And that is atypical. Now some researchers will say some of these milestones like drinking alcohol, experimenting with recreational drugs, use of nicotine, which is a
Lauren (24:17.826)
Right?
Vanessa (24:18.721)
The same room.
Lauren (24:22.636)
That's fascinating.
Wilhelmina (24:23.413)
Yeah
Vanessa (24:24.497)
you
Teri (24:45.061)
you know, it's not really cigarettes anymore. It's vaping, which is a whole nother conversation. Those rates, so vaping is up, but alcohol use is also lower than ever. So in some ways, it's not always a bad thing, but there's other milestones like Lauren had mentioned when it comes to driving a car, wanting to drive a car, getting a part -time job, having sex with your boyfriend or girlfriend. Yes, there's milestones that are being impeded because people have these experience blockers, but they don't even
Vanessa (24:47.382)
Right. yeah.
Lauren (24:47.564)
Right.
Vanessa (25:03.394)
Yes.
Wilhelmina (25:05.373)
Moving out of the house.
Vanessa (25:07.052)
Right. Yes.
Lauren (25:08.919)
my gosh.
Teri (25:14.745)
I don't think younger people even know what they're missing. They don't know what they don't know.
Vanessa (25:19.18)
Right, because they have never experienced that, so they don't understand what they're missing out on. I was just recently watching where they did this experiment with teenagers. And so they took the phone away from them. they said, because it's not just taking the phone away, it's also increasing autonomy and independence. And so they were saying, so they took this group of teenagers, and they took their phones away, and they sent them camping alone. Yes.
Lauren (25:19.671)
Right.
Wilhelmina (25:36.009)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Lauren (25:36.162)
Great. Encouraging independence.
Teri (25:37.349)
Yeah, that's both.
Lauren (25:42.124)
Yep. Yes, I saw this. Yep. Yep.
Wilhelmina (25:44.905)
I saw this too, yeah.
Vanessa (25:45.176)
They sent them camping alone. And so they were basically like there was no adult there. They were like they're all 16 year olds and they're like, you're to go camping. And so they went camping and then they interviewed the kids afterwards. And, you know, they all had such a positive experience together. And then when they got their phones back, they were talking about how they felt like they didn't need to be on the phone all the time, which was really great. And I was like, so that's part of it, too. It's not just saying you can't be on the phone. You don't get a phone. It's also facilitating then these social interactions with
Lauren (25:49.609)
Mm -hmm.
Lauren (25:57.036)
Yes.
Lauren (26:14.782)
Right. Right.
Vanessa (26:14.924)
with kids, right? I was just this morning at a talk and came up about kids like social development and they're like, these kids these days, they just don't know how to and it's because of COVID. And I was listening and I was like, COVID certainly played a role, but I would not say that it's COVID. I think that catapulted some kids more into the social media, further into it, but that's not why these kids are having such a hard time.
Lauren (26:26.966)
Ugh.
Teri (26:38.051)
It furthered it.
Vanessa (26:44.534)
you know, with their social development, I really, the phones, exactly. Yes.
Lauren (26:46.722)
And it's been four and a half years. So when I hear that, that drives me nuts a little bit because I agree with you in that moment, if they were in a particular developmental stage in the spring of 2020, it did impact their development at that particular stage. But four and a half years later to be utilizing that as a reason why social development now is impeded at whatever particular stage is not, it's just not true, right? And so to your point, I think we're looking for
Wilhelmina (26:48.467)
Yeah, yeah.
Vanessa (27:12.162)
Right, yes.
Lauren (27:16.512)
the easy button, but we know the stats. so the question I want to ask you guys is, OK, so we know it. I know this is fairly recent, but we actually have not just anecdotal, real good statistics from Jonathan's book. So why aren't we immediately changing what we're doing? Why aren't we immediately breaking the bad habits?
Wilhelmina (27:17.909)
Mm -hmm.
Teri (27:18.693)
Hmm.
Vanessa (27:19.629)
Yes.
Wilhelmina (27:39.743)
So I think, one, I think people are scared. I think people don't wanna do the work. And I'm talking about myself included. mean, I know all of the things. I know all of the things and it's still really hard. I have, there was a documentary that came out a few years ago, Netflix, The Social Dilemma.
Lauren (27:50.368)
Yes. Mm -hmm.
Teri (27:52.273)
100%.
Lauren (27:55.83)
Mm
Lauren (27:59.372)
Yeah.
Lauren (28:05.036)
Mm
Wilhelmina (28:05.309)
And it was like all of the tech people who had developed these phones, developed the social media, had basically said, like, we made this addictive. Like, we made it this way. And they talk about their, they try not to use cell phones. They don't give their kids cell phones. this isn't like Jonathan Haidt's book is giving us the data, but this has been, this is not new news. And I remember telling people to watch The Social Dilemma.
Lauren (28:21.079)
right?
Lauren (28:28.418)
Mm -hmm. Right.
Vanessa (28:29.474)
Right.
Wilhelmina (28:34.397)
and they would be like, ooh, I know, but I just, ooh, I just can't. And I think, can't. And I think it's that they, if they know it, like really know it, then they'll feel like they have to do something. And so it's kind of like, yeah, I mean, I know it's not great, but it is the easy button. I mean, it's the, well.
Lauren (28:38.348)
Right?
Vanessa (28:55.126)
Yeah. Well, I think it starts off with obviously us, but I think also there's this big parents, I think there's a couple of things going on with parents. Parents don't want to be the bad guy. They don't want to be the one to tell their teenager, you're not going to get this. Or people are like, well, they already have it. And it's like, OK, well, then you can take it away. And then they're just like, what? Take it away. And so they don't want to be put in that position. And then I think for some of the parents of younger kids,
Teri (28:55.742)
huh.
Lauren (28:56.181)
You know, if you're I.
Lauren (29:06.818)
Right?
Lauren (29:15.298)
can set boundaries, right?
Vanessa (29:23.742)
it makes their life easier, right? Like, you know, like being able to just say, here, take this tablet right now, because then I don't have to deal with a behavior problem or, know, yeah, absolutely.
Lauren (29:25.792)
Right. Yes.
Wilhelmina (29:26.099)
Yes.
Lauren (29:31.202)
Mm
Lauren (29:35.488)
We've all done it.
Teri (29:35.642)
Mm -hmm. We can sit through a dinner and have an extra glass of wine. Yep.
Wilhelmina (29:37.012)
Yes.
Lauren (29:39.766)
Yep. Yep. We've all done it.
Vanessa (29:40.766)
Exactly. it makes you, we've all been there, right? And so it is, you know, I feel like people don't want to be, you know, putting themselves in these situations because it's like life is already hard, right? And so it's like, now I have to change the way that I've been doing things. And yeah, I think it makes people really uncomfortable.
Wilhelmina (29:41.075)
Yep. We've all done it. You're right. We've all done it.
Teri (29:52.762)
Unconstrained.
Lauren (29:55.234)
Right?
Lauren (30:01.25)
Well, and from a psychological perspective, we know that it's an actual chemical change in the brain when we create a habit. Any bad habit, good or bad, it changes our brain. And we get that little comfort from engaging in a habit, whether it's a productive habit or not, and release a dopamine. And so we have to actually chemically change what we're doing. And that's the hard. It's when people are like,
Teri (30:08.111)
Yeah. Right.
Wilhelmina (30:17.919)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Teri (30:19.579)
Mm -hmm.
Teri (30:23.473)
Mm -hmm.
Vanessa (30:23.671)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (30:26.943)
Yeah. Yep.
Vanessa (30:28.086)
It is.
Lauren (30:31.008)
This happens all the time. have, the four of us have had this conversation offline a number of times about our practices and specifically those of us that evaluate and provide the recommendation about sleep hygiene to families. So whether it's the teenager, often it's a recommendation about sleep hygiene for parents and teenagers, for the teenager, but even adults that I evaluate, and I'm sure you guys have run into this, Vanessa and Terry as well, it is unbelievable the resistance.
Teri (30:44.294)
and
Wilhelmina (30:44.321)
Ugh.
Wilhelmina (31:01.084)
yeah.
Vanessa (31:01.348)
a million excuses! I mean...
Lauren (31:01.822)
I get immediately about why I can't change what I do in my bed. I've got to watch my Netflix. I've got to do my homework on my phone. I have to FaceTime my boyfriend. It's like, why are we meeting with such resistance? Right. Is there anything else we could do? Right. So it's, we know that it's hard to change a bad habit, but
Teri (31:03.575)
They
Vanessa (31:06.701)
Yes.
Yes.
Teri (31:12.269)
They want to know.
Teri (31:16.497)
They're like, do you have any other strategies besides what we know works?
Wilhelmina (31:16.725)
Bye.
Vanessa (31:19.18)
Yes.
Wilhelmina (31:21.779)
You
Teri (31:24.145)
Basically, yeah.
Lauren (31:28.308)
It's just so interesting. We've all been there. It is difficult, right? There's a reason that smoking still exists. We've had that data forever, right? And yes, it's shifted and it's changed and it's lessened, right? The percentages, but it's still there. We all have our things that make us comfortable and we don't like being uncomfortable. And so I think as a human experience, we can all appreciate that technology and phones are something that make us comfortable.
Vanessa (31:34.828)
Right. Right.
Vanessa (31:58.178)
Absolutely.
Lauren (31:58.4)
Right. And also know we got to change it. Yeah.
Teri (31:58.545)
And what I've often heard is, right, what Vanessa touched on, what I've heard from parents of teens and young adults, mainly teens, I'm thinking of 12, 13, 14, 15, sort of this little bracket of when a lot of kids are getting phones and or access to social media, but it's before high school. So let's say sixth, seventh and eighth graders. The parents will say either one of two things, the toothpaste is already out of the tube, not gonna go back, we already got him the phone.
Wilhelmina (32:25.823)
Mm -hmm.
Vanessa (32:26.354)
Yeah.
Teri (32:27.909)
But again, what Vanessa and Lauren are speaking to, it's hard. They don't want to have to be uncomfortable and they don't want to do some hard parenting. And parenting is really, really hard, whether it's phone or not a phone, right? It's hard. right? And choose, choose your, choose your hard. Do you want to be dealing, so which heart are you willing to deal with as a parent? And then the other, yeah.
Vanessa (32:33.272)
Right? Right. So hard. So hard. And it doesn't matter how old they are. It's hard. No.
Lauren (32:35.362)
Right? It's hard. So hard. Right? Right. So.
Wilhelmina (32:42.301)
it never gets easier. It's just all, it's all hard.
Lauren (32:47.626)
Yep. Right. Right. It's one of my favorite phrases. Yep.
Vanessa (32:50.604)
Right. That's great. Yep.
Teri (32:56.689)
And then the other piece is if there's multiple kids in the family, if older siblings got a phone at say age 12, it becomes the culture in that little immediate family. And some of those kids were COVID kids, right? So they had, they were somewhat isolated. my older sister got a phone at 12. So I'm going to get a phone at 12. And the parents don't want to have that battle to say, you know what? We might've goofed with our oldest and we probably were premature. was during COVID. We know better now, like we said, we know better, we should do better. It's time to do better.
Lauren (33:09.121)
Yep.
Teri (33:26.885)
So for you, it is gonna be high school. And I know that's really disappointing and you have a right to be mad. Here's your dumb phone, here's your smartwatch. It's not, I think where people have been somewhat confused and I hope Jonathan Haidt will continue to amplify this message. It's not all or nothing. It is not smartphone, social media, or no devices, nothing. It is watches, it is dumb phones, it is any devices in between as you're waiting for the brain to mature more.
Lauren (33:42.134)
Yeah. Yeah.
Teri (33:55.973)
before you expose it to certain stimuli, where they can have that independence and autonomy and text with their friends and have that independence. We all want our kids to become more independent.
Vanessa (34:06.464)
Right. But even starts off younger too, just to tag on what you were saying. It's even the iPad in the little ones, Like, starts there. So like, even before the phone becomes, you know, something that they want, it starts with the iPad and the, you know, what little ones are watching, right? So that's where I think it starts.
Lauren (34:07.003)
But also, yeah.
Lauren (34:13.728)
Yes.
Teri (34:14.341)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (34:14.444)
Mm
Lauren (34:16.503)
Mm -hmm.
Lauren (34:22.272)
Yeah. Yep.
Yep. Yeah, I would agree with that. I think it has to be paired with what you were saying now that we know, and it doesn't have to be all or nothing, and it has to be just these small changes that we make with technology use, both for us as we're modeling it, us as adults in general, whether you have children or not, right, as well as for kids. But it has to be, what Vanessa said early, pairing it with these play -based activities.
Right. And experiences. And when I say play, mean, that goes for adolescents and adults as well. It's utilizing a phone to say, let's make a plan to meet. Let's make a plan to have our kids get together and make sure there are no phones and they're putting them in the box. And all the parents know that. Right. So all these teenagers are going over to my house tonight and we are putting phones in a box and I will have my phone on if you need to get in touch with me. But those teenagers are not going to sit next to each other on their phones and
Teri (35:19.269)
Mm -hmm.
Lauren (35:24.444)
and look at social media, post things, whatever, they're going to have some sort of experience, right?
Vanessa (35:30.978)
That's what you're doing, Melamina, right?
Wilhelmina (35:31.263)
So this just, yes. So I, when my daughter's friends started getting phones, I saw kind of an immediate shift when they would come over, because I'd been seeing them come over and play for years. And all of a sudden I was starting to see they were on the phone, they were this, and I was like, no, no, no. And I immediately went onto Etsy and bought myself a unplugged box where it's right in our front, right in the front door. And the,
Lauren (35:55.35)
I love that.
Wilhelmina (36:00.767)
kiddos put the phone in the box. I always say like, let your parent know I'm here. At this point, all the parents have my cell phone too. Or if you need to text your parent, you can of course go to the phone and get your text them. And then I say, go play. And I literally have seen them just sitting there staring at the screen, then I make them put the phones in and suddenly they're playing games, they're...
Lauren (36:24.406)
They come back. I love it. I love it.
Vanessa (36:26.434)
talking to each other. Yes.
Wilhelmina (36:26.473)
doing make believe they're talking and I was just like it makes me so happy but I did it is uncomfortable to be the like the person that's like Yeah, I don't want to be that mom. I'm like and I keep joking I'm like, I hope we I like I love that they want to come here I hope that now that I'm gonna be that mom they won't stop but they won't stop coming and then I was like they can come here and they can eat the junk food
Teri (36:28.271)
Mm -hmm.
Vanessa (36:31.8)
That's great.
dot parent.
Teri (36:35.639)
That mom. You're that mom.
Lauren (36:37.11)
Right?
Wilhelmina (36:51.837)
They can watch, you know, like when they're a little older, they can come here and watch the R -rated movies. Like I'll do I'll be that parent. Right. Like, but like just just get off the screen. Like I'll give you other little fun ways that you can, So but it's it's it's a risk I'm taking, but I just feel so strongly about it that I got to do it.
Lauren (36:52.353)
Yeah.
Vanessa (36:56.116)
Right.
Lauren (36:57.566)
Right, right, right. Yeah.
Lauren (37:09.484)
Well, and hopefully there will be a shift in parents in our worlds and parents everywhere that it will be that you're not the only mom. That it's more of a majority for moms and dads and parents everywhere to say, we're putting that away, let's do this, right? But it...
Teri (37:10.009)
I think it's worth it.
Vanessa (37:25.238)
Yeah, the more you can share that, hopefully then other parents will say, that's a good idea. Let me do that. I think one of the things we I think one of the things that we should talk a little bit more about, you know, why are we saying that we shouldn't be using the social media, the phones? Yeah. So I think we've we've kind of commented on like, you know, it's definitely impacting, you know, teens, kids, ability to like interact socially. I can't tell you how many times I've seen young people like trying to like.
Teri (37:25.904)
Mm
Lauren (37:28.48)
I think it's a great idea.
Teri (37:30.383)
It might empower them.
Lauren (37:37.024)
I was thinking the same thing.
Vanessa (37:50.6)
know, interview or ask a question. And it's like, have you ever talked to human being before? Like, you know, like no eye contact. They're so nervous. So why don't we spend a few minutes just talking about like, what do we know about? Why are we saying this? Like, I love them.
Lauren (37:52.706)
Now.
Wilhelmina (37:55.347)
Hahaha
Lauren (37:55.882)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Lauren (38:03.682)
I have the stats, if you'd like, from his book, from Jonathan's books. OK, so just a couple of infographics, talking about young adults. So those that are of, he terms it undergraduate age. So let's say like that 18 to 24 -year -old range. 134 % increase in anxiety since 2010, 106 % increase in depression.
since 2010 and 72 % increase in ADHD since 2010 as well. And he does go through another, you know, a couple of other things. Everything has increased, bipolar disorder, anorexia, schizophrenia, substance abuse. There's just, but specifically his data really, yeah, it's interesting, right? 67 % increase. Now there, think there's a little bit of, we diagnosing better? Are we catching it earlier? Those kinds of things with some of these other diagnoses.
Wilhelmina (38:34.281)
Yeah, yeah.
Vanessa (38:35.207)
yeah, that's a big one.
Teri (38:35.589)
Hmm?
Wilhelmina (38:47.189)
Schizophrenia? Interesting.
Wilhelmina (38:54.953)
Yeah.
Vanessa (38:55.586)
Yeah, there's other factors.
Lauren (38:58.21)
But his, would say a big focus of the data is anxiety, depression. And then those things that can be kind of secondary to that, like eating disorders, things like that, because of what we're seeing on social media. Anxiety specifically, there's been 139 % increase in that 18 to 25 year old range. 103 % increase 26 to 34 year olds.
Teri (39:06.095)
Mm -hmm.
Lauren (39:25.698)
52 % increased 35 to 49 year olds and people 50 years and older, there's actually been a decrease. And that would probably be in line with what Vanessa was saying earlier about that boomer generation is on the phone less, right? And so they're actually getting out in the world and doing things. That's a great thing. Maybe taking care of their health in different ways. So that's actually good information, but that's why we're talking about it, right? It's not.
just because that we're real big supporters of this book and we want to do different, right? For our kids, it's really, there are real data that show we're seeing it in our practices. And it's sometimes even harder to see where it came from, right? We talk. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (40:03.753)
We are. Yep.
Vanessa (40:04.02)
Absolutely. Yes. Right.
Teri (40:04.045)
on a daily basis. are navigating this.
Wilhelmina (40:09.225)
Yes, we've been seeing it for years. We've been talking about this. The four of us have been talking about this for years. So that's why we were so thankful that Heights Book came out and we're like, this is what we've been seeing. This is it.
Vanessa (40:09.432)
Yeah. Yes. Yes. Absolutely.
Lauren (40:14.496)
Mm -hmm. Yeah, yeah Yep. Yeah. Yeah and
Teri (40:17.957)
Yes.
Vanessa (40:19.276)
Yes, yes. And it's not just the kids. And I think that's the huge, it's adults too. There are higher rates of anxiety, depression in adults as well. It's negatively impacting all of us, all of us.
Teri (40:20.741)
Yes. And what's interesting.
Wilhelmina (40:23.689)
Yes.
Teri (40:24.847)
Yes, it's both.
Lauren (40:27.788)
Full grown adults, yes.
Teri (40:34.001)
Well, and you mentioned the year was 2010 since if we track back the data and what Height mentions in his book is the iPhone came out, it was released in 2007, the Android was released in 2008. The phones became more prolific and got in everybody's hands by like 09, 09 -ish, 08, 09. That was a huge piece, yes. Yeah.
Lauren (40:37.92)
Yes, yep.
Lauren (40:51.436)
Well, in the two -way camera.
The two -way camera is 2010. So that was when the significant increase in Facebook and Instagram, so social media platforms, it changed from posting photo albums, like all us old people do on Facebook, right? Like here was my trip to, 45 pictures from the bar, right? It changed to in the moment pictures.
Teri (41:01.637)
these.
Wilhelmina (41:09.333)
yeah.
Vanessa (41:10.422)
Yeah.
Teri (41:11.761)
30 pictures from one Friday night.
Teri (41:18.032)
Yeah.
Lauren (41:23.104)
selfies of what they were doing in the moment. That was the shift.
Vanessa (41:23.84)
Right, I was about to say that it's different though. Yes, because we were like taking our pictures and then you'd upload them later and it would take forever. Now it's like instant. You guys remember when we were on our trip, this last trip, and we went to that bar and there was music? All of the young girls were sitting on the couches on their phones and the four of us were dancing on the dance floor. And we were like, what is happening?
Teri (41:24.4)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (41:30.483)
Yes, you'd be in the moment.
Lauren (41:30.572)
Two days later, right. Yes.
Teri (41:30.737)
Mm -hmm.
Lauren (41:41.832)
right, yes. Yes. They had on their phones the entire time.
Wilhelmina (41:42.217)
Yes.
Vanessa (41:48.522)
They were all taking pictures of themselves and just hang and like as if they were having fun. And meanwhile, the four of us are like, you know, living it up on the dance floor. was fascinating to see.
Wilhelmina (41:50.526)
Yes?
Teri (41:57.841)
Yes.
Lauren (41:59.062)
Yes.
Wilhelmina (41:59.253)
And going down slides where then we realized, wait, we just went down these crazy like two story slide and we didn't get any footage of it. And like we got like one clip of it. We're like, well, hey, we had fun. Like we, it was so great. And that's what they say about phones is actually when you're out and about and you're taking photos for like a memory, like, let's take a photo of the night, like whatever. You're in the moment taking the photo of that moment.
Vanessa (42:07.542)
Hahaha!
Wilhelmina (42:27.455)
But if you are taking photos that you are taking to post, you are already out of the moment. You are already thinking about who's gonna see it. Is it cute enough? Is it good enough? Is it your, you literally are out of the moment if you are taking videos and pictures that you are intending for the intention of posting.
Lauren (42:34.658)
Yes.
Teri (42:35.087)
Hmm.
Lauren (42:46.871)
Yep. Right. So there has been, you know, there has been sort of this like retro, I don't know, moment. What do we call it? Have you noticed that people are getting like the disposable cameras for different events? Right. But you know, it's so funny about that. I love that idea. Right. Because then you just have to take the picture and it is what it is. Right.
Vanessa (42:48.034)
posting. Yeah, that makes total sense. Total sense.
Wilhelmina (43:01.897)
Yes, yes!
Vanessa (43:02.73)
yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Teri (43:03.311)
Yes.
Lauren (43:11.052)
But if you still have your phone and you're taking it, right? So there has to be sort of, OK, if we're going to do this, let's put our phones away and use the disposable and really kind of be in the moment to your point. There's a lot of work to be done. I would say, go ahead. No. Yep. Yep.
Vanessa (43:22.68)
right. Any, there is any last thoughts on today's topic?
Teri (43:30.553)
My, the phrase I keep coming back to is like, now that we know better, it's time to do better.
Vanessa (43:36.856)
Absolutely. And we all. And so we are here to say that we are all in it with you because we all need to do better, including the four of us.
Lauren (43:42.102)
Yep. Yep.
Wilhelmina (43:45.319)
Absolutely. I keep trying to see that number go down per week and I'm like, it's not moving very much. It's not going down.
Teri (43:45.817)
definitely.
Lauren (43:46.57)
And I would say even though it's a little, right. I know, I would say even though it is a little counterintuitive, I will acknowledge that, but there is a lot of good information on Jonathan Haidt's website, his Instagram profile about how to do this. The other thing I would plug is the Wait Till Eight campaign. They've been doing great work for a while. I don't.
Wilhelmina (44:10.598)
yeah, yes. We're doing that with our schools.
Teri (44:11.224)
Yeah.
Lauren (44:15.202)
I don't think people really totally understood what it is, but it's this campaign. If everybody could be in together in different communities, parents be in together and not give phones until eighth grade. that, so I would say if you are looking for more information and feeling, or you can contact us, we've got it all, we talk about it all. It's sort of important to all of us, but there are some really good, you know, online resources for that piece. Just do it separate from your kids.
Teri (44:15.771)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (44:42.709)
And the wait, absolutely. And the wait until eighth is great. We're doing this in our community. And what's wonderful about it is if you can kind of spread the word, when you sign up, if you feel like take the pledge for your kid and put their school in, you'll actually get an email once you get, I feel like it's 10 families. There's a certain number of families. If they all do it, you'll be like.
you're all in this together and you actually get it. So some of our classes already in the elementary school have gotten that. And so it's really awesome to see. It's a great, go onto the website. They have tons of information.
Lauren (45:07.716)
Aww, that's so nice.
Lauren (45:18.028)
Yeah. Awesome.
Vanessa (45:20.278)
Well, that was a super great chat today. I think we talked about all the things that we had kind of thought we were going to talk about and we're hoping to talk about. Lauren, you mentioned that if anybody ever wanted to reach out to us, you can email us. The email is the shrink down dot podcast at gmail dot com. If you ever want to reach out. Thank you so much for listening today. We hope you join us next time on the shrink down.