The Pilot Project Podcast is an aviation podcast that aims to help new pilots learn what it takes to succeed in the world of flight, to help people in the flight training system learn what they may want to fly, and to give Canadians and the world a peek into life on the flight deck in the RCAF. We want to help pilots succeed and thrive! We interview real RCAF pilots for their exciting stories as well as the lessons they've learned along the way. We'll learn their tips to develop resilience and the tools it takes to make it in flight training.
Alright. We're ready for departure here at The Pilot Project Podcast, the best source for stories and advice from the pilots of the RCAF. I'm your host, Brian Morrison. With me today is my good friend, Fred Pinguinroy. Fred, welcome to the show, and thanks so much for being here.
Fred:Thanks, Brian. It's, it's great seeing you after all these years, man.
Bryan:Absolutely. Alright. So let's go over Fred's bio. Fred received his pilot wings in 2017 and later graduated from his fighter pilot course in Cold Lake in 2022. He was then posted to 433 Tactical Fighter Squadron in Bagotville, Quebec flying the CF 18 Hornet.
Bryan:Part of Fred's fighter lead in training included going to Euro NATO Joint Jet Pilot Training Program, or N JEPT, at Shepard Air Force Base, Texas, flying the T-38C Talon. After After completing his training in 2022 on the CF 18, he filled subsequent roles at his squadron as a combat ready wingman and training officer. During that time, Fred has conducted domestic NORAD operations and flown in support of a few international exercises in Europe and the United States. So Fred, having worked with your dad, I have a potential idea of the answer, but where did aviation start for you?
Fred:Yeah. That's right, Brian. You know you know very well that, my father was a a pilot in the air force, still is a pilot in the, RCAF. He flew the CP 140 Aurora in Greenwood. And he also did a bit of work for a few years as a civilian pilot, airline pilot.
Fred:So for me, I was actually born in Moose Jaw while my my dad was doing his phase 2 flight training back in 1996 in Moose Jaw on that CT 114 Tutor. So I've been, right from birth, kinda around aviation and especially military aviation. Grew up, you know, watching my dad go to work in his flight suit every day. And pretty much for as long as I can remember, I've been wanting to be an air force pilot.
Bryan:Yeah. That's awesome. So it's another kind of case of it being in your blood, really.
Fred:Yeah, exactly. In my blood. And for me, there was no other option, really. It was I was kind of become a pilot in the Air Force, and, you know, anything else was just a backup plan.
Bryan:Yeah. We're gonna get into your training in a moment. But did you find that that added a layer of pressure or were you just you were good to go, basically?
Fred:It definitely added a layer of pressure, but also added a layer of motivation. I mean, I knew that my dad was super, super proud of me for following his footsteps. But I also knew that, you know, he would still love me if I did something else, decided to do something else. So Yeah,
Bryan:of course.
Fred:I think it was just self induced pressure, you know, trying to trying to make dad proud, make mom proud, you know. But it was for me, it was motivation. I kinda took that as a as fuel Yeah. To add to the fire.
Bryan:Yeah. I know another guy that I know in the fighter world was also his dad was a fighter pilot, and certainly added some pressure for him during training. So I know that can happen sometimes, but like you say, it can also add some motivation. So
Fred:Yeah. Motivation. And also, my dad was really a good source of knowledge, and, I could call him anytime and ask him questions. You know, what what did you find difficult in this part of your training? And he always could give me a good answer, which was really cool.
Bryan:Yeah. That's awesome. How did you find your flight training experience in the forces?
Fred:Yeah. So my flight training was awesome, especially the highlight of my training program through the Royal Canadian Air Force training was the, Euro NATO drone jet pilot training program in Texas, ENGEP as it's commonly called, working with, you know, over 10 different NATO countries, NATO partners in Texas, flying the T-three eighty Talon. I think that was a really cool, cool part of my training and definitely the highlight.
Bryan:Yeah. I knew a few guys who did the NGET program, and it seemed like a lot of fun, but also super high pressure, super high intensity. Like, how did you find that in comparison to our flight training?
Fred:It's a very different way of learning. The US system is, there's a lot of pilots that go through the program. And since the 19 sixties, not one engine of course has graduated late. They've always been on time. So it is a bit of a meat grinder.
Fred:Like, a lot of pilots have to get through this program per year from all the different countries, you know, including Canada, the US, Norway, the UK, Germans. There's there's a whole bunch of us. So the the training was definitely very procedure focused. Mhmm.
Bryan:You
Fred:know, you had to know your stuff and you had to execute it well every day. And other differences would be, you know, in the Canadian Air Force system, we kinda if you wanna brief with our instructor, we go into a closed room, close the door, and, you know, it's kind of more of a a 1 on 1 brief slash debrief session. Whereas with the US Air Force, it's you're in a room with everybody else. You and your instructor are sitting, like, at his desk, but, like, all your student partners, your teammates are sitting there studying on their own, and they can listen to your brief, your debrief. So if you fail the the flight and your instructor is, like, giving you a bit of a, you know, you did this wrong.
Fred:You did this wrong. Well, you every all your buddies are are listening to that. And, so definitely adds a lot of pressure and a lot of stress.
Bryan:Yeah. There's no secrets.
Fred:No. There's no secrets. Yeah. Everything's out there.
Bryan:How did you like flying the Talon?
Fred:How was
Bryan:that as an aircraft?
Fred:Talon is really cool. I mean, it's, it's a super difficult jet to fly. Like, a lot of there's been a lot of accidents since they started flying. I think it was in the fifties that they started flying the Talon.
Bryan:So it's
Fred:a really old jet, but they've upgraded over the years, the engines, all the avionics in there. So it really was just like flying a a little fighter jet. You know, the the f 5, in fact, was based off the t 38.
Bryan:So Yeah. Isn't it almost the same but with afterburners?
Fred:Yeah. With afterburners and, different wings, I believe.
Bryan:Okay.
Fred:The thing really is a little longer, like a little fighter jet. It was really cool.
Bryan:Is it the Talon that they used in the first Top Gun movie for the enemy for the MiGs?
Fred:That was f fives. Oh, okay.
Bryan:Okay. So Very close. Yeah. Yeah. So something really interesting about your flight training is you also were in the Seneca program, which is now discontinued.
Bryan:Can you tell us a little bit about that? Sure.
Fred:So, yeah, I joined in 2014, under a program called the Seneca COTP program. What it entitled pretty much was 4 years to get a degree from, Seneca College in Toronto, as well as your, RCF pilot's wings, either in Meuchard and Portage. So for the first four years of the program, we would bounce back between our degree, our school in Markham, Ontario, and then all the flight training done either in Portage of Prairie or in Moose Jaw for a wing. So in 4 years, we could get fully trained from, you know, an 18 year old kid to a fully winged captain ready to go, onto his operational training unit and flying.
Bryan:How did you find that bouncing back and forth between Toronto and the prairies? Like, was it kinda tough because you were never in one spot for a long time? Or
Fred:Yeah. It definitely was difficult. A lot of sacrifices were made, obviously. But for me, it was it was my dream. It was my goal to to get to where I'm at.
Fred:So I did everything I I had to do. So Toronto was was a really cool city. Obviously, we we were paid to go to school in Toronto as second lieutenants. Not a lot of people can can say they've done that.
Bryan:Yeah. For sure.
Fred:And then, obviously, the flight training through the air force in Moose Jaw and Portage was super intense. So bounce back and forth between both was definitely difficult, but super rewarding at the end, obviously.
Bryan:Yeah. So you're going through your Seneca program. You're going back and forth. Obviously, the dream is to become an F 18 pilot. You finally get selected F 18s.
Bryan:What was that like?
Fred:Yeah. So actually, funny story. When I finished phase 3 with selected jets, was super happy about that. Obviously, that was that was my dream from the very get go as a kid was, was to become a fighter pilot. You know, after seeing Top Gun and watching the f 18 demo at the air shows, that was really, kinda what I was aiming for.
Fred:So when I was I got selected, for jets, went on to the phase 4 training in Moose Jaw on the on the CT 155 Hawk. Once I finished that, went back to Toronto to do my last 3 semesters of school. And, while I was there, there was a small period of time there, a few years where, there was a big, big backlog from fighter pilots Mhmm. Training through Cold Lake.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Fred:So, yeah, I got rounded up with me and my 2 other classmates, by our course director, Fuel, in Toronto. She said, listen, guys. There's no easy way to put this. There's too big of a backlog in, Cold Lake right now. So we're giving you the option.
Fred:Either you are gonna switch from going fighters to another community, so multi engineer helicopter, or you go to Moose Jaw, become an instructor on the Harvard or the Hawk, and just wait it out till till you can go fighters.
Bryan:Yep.
Fred:So the 2 other guys I was with, they said that, you know, they had girlfriends and kinda they said, okay. We're just gonna make the switch. They both switched to multi engine. Yep. I was young.
Fred:I was kinda still really aiming for the goal of being a fighter pilot. So I said, sure, I'll go be an instructor in Moose Jaw and just wait out being able to go to go to Cold Lake for my training. Yeah. And then I actually got a post and message to to Moose Jaw as an instructor. And about a month before I headed out, I got a phone call from Major Public Cover.
Bryan:Okay.
Fred:You probably know him from from the Aurora days.
Bryan:Yep.
Fred:And he said, Fred, would you like to go to Texas? And I was like, what? Like, like, ENGAP? He's like, yeah. Do you wanna go to ENGAP?
Fred:And, you can go right to the Hornet after that. Obviously, like, instant yes. Like, absolutely. Like, I was thrilled. So I managed to you know, there's always ways in life sometimes that you can you think that it's a there's a barrier that you can't really get over, but there's always a way at the end of the day that you can get to your goal.
Fred:So, yeah, I was really lucky to be able to go to EngUp, do that training, and then move on to the F18 after that.
Bryan:So that's a bit of an emotional roller coaster.
Fred:Yeah, really.
Bryan:It shows though how much you wanted that because it is tough. It's tough when you think you've got your goal, and then roadblocks start appearing, and, you know, maybe you end up doing something that you didn't expect to be doing along the way, because, you know, it would have been probably a good 3, 4 year stint in Moose Jaw. Right? It's not like would have just been there for a year waiting. Like, it probably would have been a full tour, I'm guessing, of instructing.
Bryan:Exactly. It would have been
Fred:a while. And it just goes to show that there's a lot of things in life, and especially in the Canadian Armed Forces, where you don't have much say on or there's you don't have much control on. But if you keep your head down, keep working at it, and you you really show that you you want something, there's always kind of a way at the end, that you'll be able to make it there. Yeah. For me, I was I was really lucky.
Fred:You know, obviously, it's timing as well. It's it's Mhmm. Being in the right place at the right time. But was really lucky to be able to go through that back way instead of being an instructor and go right on to the F18.
Bryan:Yeah. So what exactly does the F18 do? It's Canada's only fighter aircraft, so I imagine you folks have a wide range of responsibilities.
Fred:Absolutely. So, the F 18 multirole fighter, our biggest job, our number one job is defending Canada, obviously. How we do that is through NORAD. So we defend Canada and North America together through the NORAD umbrella, so the North American Aerospace Defense. And every base every fighter base in Canada, so Cold Lake and Bagaville has a quick reaction alert facility where, we always have pilots and technicians and jets, armed jets kinda ready for any eventuality, whether that be, you know, foreign aircraft flying over airspace, whether it be an airliner that's going through issues, like a hijacking or radio failure or something like that.
Fred:We're always ready to to launch, you know, in x number of minutes and ready to go, you know, intercept whatever aircraft we need to and carry out the mission.
Bryan:It's interesting that now we did an episode a few episodes back in September that listeners can check out on remembering 911. It's interesting that now that's part of NORAD's mission, where before it was completely focused on external threats, and now there's also that focus on potential threats from within.
Fred:Exactly. And I'd say a much higher part of our focus as NORAD pilots is, to intercept any airline or civilian aircraft that's going through through issues. So it's definitely, after 911, has gotten a lot more focus, which is a good thing, obviously.
intro:Mhmm.
Bryan:Yeah.
Fred:And then, yeah. So if we're not doing any NORAD operations, if we're not doing force generation activities at home, then, you know, we go internationally for the most part to defend Canada's interests abroad. Since I've gone to the squadron a few years ago, we haven't done any actual operations. So I've done a few international, exercises, LFEs as we call them, so large force exercises, both in the US and overseas. I did one exercise called Friesian flag in the Netherlands and another one called Cobra Warrior in the UK, which I just finished up.
Fred:That was in September. So I just got back from that not long ago.
Bryan:That must have been really cool to go to the Netherlands. And I think they fly, what, f sixteens?
Fred:Yeah. Netherlands. They've almost fully transitioned from the f f 16 Viper to the f 35 now. Oh, really? Yeah.
Fred:They're
Bryan:Okay. I didn't realize they were on that train.
Fred:They're ahead of us a little bit
Bryan:on that train.
Fred:I'd like
Bryan:to talk about the training and upgrade process for the F 18 pilot. And if we
Fred:could, let's start at when you leave Moose Jaw. Sure. So, if there's one thing you should know about being a fighter pilot is that the learning never stops. From phase 2 to phase 3 on the on the Harvard, you get your wings. You're starting to learn, you know, basic formation flying, navigation skills.
Fred:You move on to the Hawk, learn how to fly a jet, obviously. And then you move on to your fighter lead in training, which, you know, was on the Hawk in F-four 19 in Cold Lake. Now it's mostly done through NGAP. And I think some pilots are now starting to go through Italy and and, Finland for, for fighter leading training. So that's where you're gonna start, you know, focusing less about flying a jet and more how you're employing the jet as a weapon as a weapon system.
Fred:So, you're learning, you know, a lot of air to air tactics, air to ground deliveries, things like that. And then you move on finally to the f 18. And once again, the fighter pilot course, given f 410 in Cold Lake is it's a pretty quick transition to learn how to fly the f 18, like, doing the the basic handling of the aircraft, instrument flying, all that. It's only a few weeks, and then we move right into the tactics. The fighter pilot course is it's about a year long.
Fred:Okay. And we're gonna go through everything, from, yeah, air to air employment, air to ground employment. The f 18 is the first jet you get to that has a radar, that has, you know, a multitude of sensors. So you're really learning to be more of a of a sensor slash weapon system operator than than than a pilot, I'd say. The flying is like second nature, and then you're employing the system itself a lot more.
Bryan:I was gonna say, it's telling that the course is a year long, but the portion where you learn to fly and fight the f 18 is only a few weeks long. And then basically, the rest of that must be tactics, learning how to operate those sensors and systems, and how to employ weapons. Exactly.
Fred:And I think, don't quote me on this, but I think it's your 5th or 6th flight on the F 18 that you go solar. So it's Really? Yeah. They give you the keys to a jet, and,
Bryan:you know How's the, pressure on that one?
Fred:It's huge. Yeah. It's, it's kinda surreal, honestly. And after the fact, looking back, you're like, oh my god. I can't believe they they let me do that.
Fred:But yeah. So then when you finally finished the fighter pilot course FBC at 4 10 squadron in Cold Lake, you get to the squadron, and you think you're you're done training. It's like, nope. You're right into your combat ready upgrade, we call it. So So it's about another 6 months to a year of building up your skills as a wingman to to be combat ready, to be able to be deployed and whatnot on operations.
Fred:Part of that is your NORAD checkout where they check you out in for the QRA activities, so any NORAD intercepts and whatnot. Part of of the combat ready upgrade as well is your night vision qualification, so we start flying on, on NVGs and the Hornet. And then you keep, moving on from there. As a fighter pilot throughout your career, you go from combat ready upgrade to element lead upgrade, where you can be formation leading of 2 aircraft. And then section lead upgrade, you're a lead of 4 aircraft.
Fred:You move on to, iPug, we call it, so an instructor pilot upgrade, where you can now teach the young guys through their upgrades. You can do your mission commander qual, so you're always pretty much on upgrade or moving towards your next upgrade and has a fighter pilot.
Bryan:So the learning just never stops.
Fred:It really never does. Yeah.
Bryan:It sounds intense, but it sounds like a lot of fun.
Fred:Yeah. It's it's challenging for sure. And, you're you're always in the books, obviously. So
Bryan:Yeah. I think that's such an important thing to highlight to any young pilots listening. It's just that realization that you really don't stop studying. Like, if you're looking for an easy career, this is definitely not that. I always think about how, you know, with the amount of studying you do in the as a pilot in the air force, especially in, like, the heavily tactically involved communities.
Bryan:I mean, you could be a doctor or something, because you're gonna spend years in training, and then years more in training on the squadron, and the studying just never stops. Yeah. Exactly. I I
Fred:like your point about comparing it to a doctor because, let's say for me, I've I joined the military at 16, joined as a pilot as 18. I'm 27 now, and I'm just getting onto the hornet, just starting my my career, you know, as a as a fighter pilot. And I still got so much more to go. Right? And it's it's a lifelong learning curve, if you will.
Bryan:Yeah. For sure. So now that we've talked a little bit about the training and upgrade process, can you take us through what a normal day looks like at 433 squadron? And because, obviously, no 2 days are alike, we'll say, like, an average flying day and an average day where you're not flying.
Fred:Sure. Yeah. So, average flying day, like you mentioned, we're probably in the either in the QRA doing a shift there, or if we're not, you know, on operation somewhere. A normal flying day would consist of us showing up to work in the morning. It depends if you're, a morning wave or an afternoon noon wave scheduled.
Fred:But, yeah, you show up sometimes as early as 6:30, 7 AM, start studying a little bit, top off your studying that you haven't, really caught up as much on as you you would have liked to, and then you go right into the mission planning aspects. So looking at the weather, we do a lot of, you know, mission planning, on a a small mission data card that we carry to the jet. Would that be,
Bryan:like, one that you put all your navigation info in and those sorts of
Fred:things that you plug in? Yeah, exactly. Waypoints, weapon parameters, things like that Okay. For the mission you're about to do. And then, once you're ready, we always do a lengthy brief before the flight.
Fred:We We will do the brief with the instructor pilot, that's flying with us or just the formation lead if we're doing a non upgrade mission. The brief lasts, you know, about an hour, an hour and a half.
Bryan:Okay.
Fred:And then, we start getting ready to actually get to the jet. So for us in the in the Hornet, we wear a lot of, all c gear. So a lot of our, you know, we wear our g pants, our harness, our life vest, as well as our our helmet. Mhmm.
Bryan:So we
Fred:have to go downstairs, start putting that on. Ideally, you know, especially if you're doing a higher g mission, you wanna start stretching as well, stretch your neck, stretch your back, or else that's where when when injuries start kinda coming in.
Bryan:That's an important point, how physical it is to fly a fighter.
Fred:Yeah. Very physical. Like, just from the moment you start putting on your gear, walking out to the jet, strapping in, and the flight itself, like, it's it's pretty tiring, actually. You come back from a flight and you're exhausted mentally, but also pretty physically as well.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Fred:So yeah. So from from when we we start getting dressed to the jet, we were gonna go out to our step desk, as we call it. We're gonna have a pilot that will give us an out brief. To give us the latest weather or any anything we need to know pretty much before we take off. We go to the jet.
Fred:We'll start the jet. And, you know, there's no hiding that their jets are getting a bit older. So sometimes we have to do quite a bit of troubleshooting to make sure that that it's good to go. It can be anything from the flight control systems to our radar. Sometimes they just need a couple on and offs like an old computer has, if you will.
Bryan:But also, like you said, they are aging aircraft. But there's also a ton of systems on board. Yeah. I always try to highlight this when we talk about how an aircraft might come up unserviceable, as we say. There's so much on board that can there's like so many computers, so many systems.
Bryan:It can be the smallest thing, but you're not gonna take off without everything functioning properly.
Fred:Exactly. And then, especially if it's a critical mission, if we're in the, in the QRA, there's so many things that we have to make sure that are good to go before we take off. So after that, we take off. We only fly, it's been on the mission between an hour, an hour and a half if we don't have an air air refueler. Obviously, with an air air air refueler, we can fly as long as we want, if you will, as long as the the tanker sticks around.
Fred:And then after hour and a half, we're going to come back, we're going to land, and then then we start getting to the process of debriefing. So, we'll we'll look at everything that happened during the flight. If we employed any simulated weapons, we'll look at those those parameters, make sure everything was was correct. And then we were gonna sit in the debrief, and it's really, like, yeah, just, we're looking at our HUD tapes. We're looking at everything from the flight, kind of moment by moment and going through what went well, what went wrong, and then what are the big key we call it DFB, so debrief focus points.
Fred:What are the big things that we can take away from from this flight?
Bryan:Can you explain what a HUD tape is?
Fred:Sure. Yeah. So, HUD stands for heads up display. So that's obviously the the flight instrument, the glass pane in front of our eyes there that gives us all our, our flight information and, weapons symbology as well in the in the F 18. And then tapes, it's just short for, yeah, like an old recorder.
Fred:So in the Hornet and for pretty much every fighter jet out there, there's a system, a camera that will be recording your HUD.
Bryan:And for the listeners, a HUD is a heads up display. It's basically a screen that the pilots look through that shows all their applicable flight data and systems information.
Fred:So that you can, like, again, debrief your missions. And if there's anything, like, for combat operations, you can you can look back on making sure everything went well. And if you need to look at anything in particular, you can stop at an exact time, you know, a space and time and look at exactly what happened.
intro:Okay.
Bryan:And how long are those debriefs typically?
Fred:It varies depending on how complex the mission was.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Fred:Usually, it's minimum of an hour.
Bryan:Okay.
Fred:And then I've seen debriefs go up to especially for, like, an LFE or things like that. Like, we're talking, like, 3 to 4 hours. Wow.
Bryan:Yeah. Yeah. That's a lot.
Fred:It is. Yeah. You need a couple of coffee breaks in there.
Bryan:So that covers a flying day. What does a non flying day look like?
Fred:Sure. So non flying day, that's when we we really try to use that time that we don't usually have on a flying day to do a lot of our admin. So let's say, we have, some paperwork to do, some claims to put in, things like that. That takes up a small portion of every day. And if not, we're we're also studying.
Fred:We're we're getting ready for the next exercise, for the next thing that's coming up. Mhmm. So, yeah. So even if you're not flying, you're always doing something at squadron. You're there's pretty much no dead times.
Fred:You're always, always working. And then if you got nothing else to do, you kinda go around, try to help your buddies if they have something that they they need to get done. So it never stops.
Bryan:Yeah. I found in the Aurora world that if you ever find yourself without work, you're missing something. Like, there's something that's creeping up on you that you're not getting ready for.
Fred:Exactly.
Bryan:You mentioned air to air refueling. What's it like to go up to a tanker and get some gas? What's that like? Yeah. So like anything in life, the first time you do
Fred:it, you you're like, what am I doing? You know, I should not be this close to a big airplane like that.
Bryan:Yeah.
Fred:But, once you've done it a few times, like, I'd say 5 to 6 pokes, as we call them. So 5 to 6 attempts at, connecting to the tanker, they kinda become second nature.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Fred:You learn your your sight pictures and your references off the off the airplane you're fueling off of. And it's it's really cool, and it's a really good force enabler for, again, taking on longer missions and, doing more stuff. Like any of the large force exercise missions that we do, if the tankers aren't there, like, we can't get the mission done. Mhmm. So they're super important for us.
Fred:Hornet doesn't carry a lot of internal gas, and we burn it pretty quick. But Yeah. And then I've tanked from anywhere from, the C130H as a tanker. I've tanked off the Polaris, the CC 150. I've tanked on the KC 46.
Bryan:I've put
Fred:it on the KC 135, which we call it the Iron Maiden. It's it's
Bryan:That's getting old now.
Fred:It's getting old, and it's it's it's quite something to tank off that thing.
Bryan:It's huge. Right? That's a that's a strato tanker?
Fred:Yeah. It's KC 135. And, yeah, the system it has on it so it's an American jet, obviously. And it's meant for for boom operations for, like, Vipers and F-15s, but they have a boom drogue adapter, we call it, for the F-18. And it is sporty, man, trying to get on that thing and stay on it for fuel.
Fred:So it's a it's a a 100 percent a 110% focus while you're you're fueling off that thing.
Bryan:Yeah.
Fred:And then, yeah, also, when I was in England, we tanked off the, they call they call it the KC 30 Voyager, but it's a an a 3 or sorry, a 3 30 Airbus. Okay. So yeah. Wide range of airplanes that can tank us. And, once you learn how to tank on 1, there's small differences for the other jets, but it's all pretty similar.
Bryan:Yeah. It's really cool. When you arrived on squadron, what did you find was the hardest part of the job when you started?
Fred:Yeah. So, I think the biggest realization for me was, you know, having gone through all the training from Moose Jaw to Engep to Cold Lake, you know, I thought that when I was going to become a fighter pilot, you know, things would kind of maybe slow down a little bit or I'd have maybe a bit more time to chill out, be at home and things like that.
Bryan:Like, I made it.
Fred:I made it. Yeah. Yeah. I can kind of take a break now. But Yeah.
Fred:Yeah. It's quite the opposite. You show up to the squadron, it's like, alright. Combat ready upgrade, NORAD checkout so that you can be in the QRA, night vision qualification. Oh, here's a secondary duty, so, you know, the work never stops coming.
Fred:Mhmm. So for me, the biggest part was trying to find a good work life balance that worked for me and worked for also my fiance. You know, that's that's at home. So Yep. That was the the bigger, realization for me when I got to the squadron.
Bryan:Yeah. And how did you take that challenge, John? How did you overcome that?
Fred:Yeah. So like I said, kinda just setting boundaries. Like, by this time, I might not be done completely my work, but I I I'm gonna get back home, go spend some time with my fiance. And also, I really, really emphasize taking time in my day to go to the gym. Yep.
Fred:Go do, you know, go do some other activities. You need hobbies. Like, you need something else outside of work to keep you going and keep you passionate about.
Bryan:Yeah. A 100%.
Fred:And I listened to to your podcast with Rich last week talking about sleep. Sleep is also super important. Like, if you're not rested, like, you're gonna show up dragging your feet and not not doing the best work you can.
Bryan:Yeah.
Fred:So, yeah. So I'd say the best things you can do for yourself are find a good work life balance, have hobbies outside of work that you enjoy doing, and go to the gym, sleep well.
Bryan:I think that's great advice because, especially when you first get on squadron, that's gonna be pretty relatable for most people that there is gonna be an avalanche of stuff that's gonna hit you that you need to know, and you're gonna feel like you needed to know it yesterday. But there's not enough hours in the day to do all that, and you have to have some point where you say, okay, I'm done now. I'm gonna go to the gym. I'm gonna spend some time with my family. I'm gonna do whatever it
Fred:is that helps refresh me. Exactly. And like, unfortunately, you know, we have a bit of a personnel shortage issue in the Canadian Armed Forces. So there's less people. There's still a lot of work to do.
Fred:So you sometimes you feel like you have to take on more of the work that's not being, you know, taken up by other people that would be there.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Fred:So once again, you just have to find that balance that works for you, that works for your family, and just try not to burden yourself out in the 1st 1st year. Right?
intro:Mhmm.
Bryan:Yep. For sure. So we've talked about that life can be pretty intense on the F18. How much are you away flying the F18?
Fred:Sure. So, even when I'm at home doing domestic operations, we spend quite a bit of time in the QRA, like I said, where we're not sleeping at home. We're 247, at work in the facilities, ready for any eventuality. So even if we're we're at home, for me in Bagaville, away from my fiance, my dogs, and that's just the normal part of of the job. Mhmm.
Fred:And if we're not doing that, you know, we're we're often by often, I mean twice a year, usually gone on exercises or deployments down south to the States, to Europe. That's on top of any courses that you would do, like, any professional development courses. So you're definitely you know, we're not as gone as often as a community like the C 17 or the Polaris, where those guys are just all over the place all the time. Yep. But we are still gone from home quite a bit.
Bryan:Yeah. Yeah. So a question I've had from quite a few listeners is what happens if you have to go to the bathroom when you're flying the F 18?
Fred:Yeah. So I will speak for the male side of the house. Yeah. That's right. Yeah.
Fred:We have a few female fighter pilots, which is which is awesome. So for us, for the the guys, the dudes, we have little pee bags that we can that we can pee into. It is extremely difficult and challenging, especially depending on the on the mission phase you're in. So it's usually a good idea to try to get that out before you go flying or even if you're, like, in the chocks, in the airplane on the ground with a parking brake set.
Bryan:Yeah.
Fred:That's a good time to take a pee before you go. Because, yeah, we we wear a lot of you know, we wear our flight suit. And on top of the flight suit, we have all our all our, survival equipment, our g pants, and everything. So you have to kinda bring your seat up, find a comfortable position Yeah. Be able to, yeah, take the pee bag and be able to use it.
Fred:So the pee bag, usually, there's either a sponge or some sort of a powder that will absorb your pee. Yeah. But I've had I've had 1 or 2 leak on me.
Bryan:Yeah. I know that.
Fred:Oh, my god. That is not not a good feeling. Why is it wet? Oh, it's leaking. Yeah.
Fred:Yeah. But, yeah. So, definitely another thing that we really try to do to avoid using those pee bags is, we call it tactical dehydration.
Bryan:So Yeah.
Fred:Let's say I know I'm gonna cross the Atlantic Ocean for 6 hours. I'm gonna try to get really hydrated the day before.
intro:Mhmm.
Fred:And then that morning, you know, a little bit of a coffee maybe, go to the bathroom for one last time, and then the rest of the the flight, you're you're not drinking any water just to make sure that you you don't have to go to the bathroom.
Bryan:Yeah. How is it crossing the Atlantic solo? That must be really difficult for 6, 7 hours by yourself in a cockpit.
Fred:Yeah, exactly. So, I think you have a question coming up where you're going to ask me the most challenging flight in an F18.
Bryan:Okay.
Fred:I would say this isn't the most challenging, but it's the most uncomfortable, really.
Bryan:Yeah.
Fred:So I've crossed the Atlantic Ocean twice now in the F18, once coming back from, from the Netherlands and then once going to Europe to to England for Cobra Warrior. On top of your flight suit, on top of your, your normal Allstate equipment, we have to wear an immersion suit, which we commonly call a, a poopy suit. Yep. So, yeah, it's a it's a big, dry suit that you have to wear underneath all your equipment. Just in case that we ever had to eject, in in the North Atlantic, you'd be able to to survive a bit longer.
Fred:Mhmm. So, yeah, you're 6 or 7 hours in a cramped cockpit wearing your helmet, your immersion suit, all your other, equipment, and there's no room to go to the bathroom to stretch your legs. They give us a bit of food to try to kinda keep us going for the flight. So, like, a bit of orange juice, like, some beef jerky, some protein bars, things like that. But, after 3 or 4 hours, you really start wishing you're on the ground, on the other side of the Atlantic layer, taking a stretch.
Fred:So
Bryan:Yeah. I've done a mission in the Aurora that we call a duck butt, which is, for the listeners, is when a tanker and an Aurora escort f eighteens across the Atlantic so that if there is any issues, we can be on scene right away to help them with anything that may happen. And one thing I heard on the frequency that we were all monitoring was the fighters doing trivia with each other. So is that something that you always do when you do a crossing? Is it someone's responsibility to get, like the trivia questions?
Fred:Or Yeah. We we try to find ways to keep busy. So obviously, we have our our tanker frequency where we'll be talking to the tanker commander. Because one thing I must say is that we never, never, never cross the ocean alone. We always, like you said, have our tanker that's giving us the gas to get across, and then we'll have an Aurora or a c one thirty h that's, that's providing our duck butt.
Fred:So crossing the ocean is not something that you can do alone in a Hornet. You need a a big team of people to get you across. But that being said, we try to keep busy on the inter flight. We'll be, you know, cracking jokes, trying to pass the time. And, I've never done trivia, flying somewhere, but Okay.
Fred:We have done we called it a a bingo where we had the bingo card with a bunch of different items on the ground, and then we were all flying with with our cameras, our sniper pods. And then, you have to fill out the bingo cards by let's say, there was a you need to find a boat crossing a river. So you're flying over, you know, over Labrador or something. You're trying to find a boat crossing a river, then once you find that, okay, you can you have to record it through your system. And then you can, you know, knock that out.
Fred:And then Yeah. It was pretty cool. It was a good way to pass the time. I
Bryan:like that. It's a little bit of training using our systems
Fred:as well.
Bryan:And you're having some fun and
Fred:keeping busy. Exactly. Yeah. You gotta keep your mind busy, or else, yeah, you're gonna start hating the the crossing.
Bryan:Yeah. I definitely, when I was doing those missions, did not envy you folks, as I was walking around and using the bathroom and going back to the gallery to get a bite to
Fred:eat. And drinking coffee. Yeah.
Bryan:Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I would find that very difficult. So kudos to you folks.
Bryan:We've touched on this a little bit, but how physically demanding is flying the F-eighteen? And do you folks find that it has any lasting effects on your body?
Fred:Yeah. So flying the f 18, definitely very physically demanding, like we've already touched on. For me, I'll I'll speak, like, from personal experience. I had just shown up to the squadron, like, not very long, probably 6 months to a year in my first tour around the squadron. When I was flying higher g missions, mostly basic fighter maneuvers, BFM or ACM air combat maneuvers, where you're looking around a bunch with your helmets, with your your head, you're pulling a lot of g, looking backwards.
Fred:I started feeling a little bit of a pinch between my shoulder blades. Mhmm. So, you know, I started doing a bit more stretching, tried to maybe get that to go away. It's kinda stuck around, so I started going to the physio on base to to see, if she could help help out with that that pain that I was experiencing. And then, after a cup you know, a few weeks of of physio, the physiotherapist said, well, you know, I'm not too sure what's going on.
Fred:Let's send you to get an MRI to make sure everything's good, and I can pinpoint what the issue is so that we can fix it. Right? So I go and get the MRI. It comes back that I have a herniated disc in my neck, C67, which is like pushing the hernia itself, like the the disc is pushing against a nerve. So that was the kind of the pain I was feeling.
Fred:So that just goes to show, you know, I'm a pretty young guy, you know, fresh off of training on Yeah. On the F18, and already getting some effects from flying the F18. So it just goes to show how physically demanding it can be.
Bryan:Yeah. And especially, like, listeners won't know this, but you're you're quite a fit guy. Like, it's it's not like you don't go to the gym or you don't have, you got a big, thick, strong neck and a strong back and all that stuff. Like, you're taking care of yourself and it can still happen.
Fred:Exactly. And I've had a lot of time to think about, maybe what's causing that and things that could help maybe in the future. It's no secret that the F 18 LC is is also aging. It's a bit older.
Bryan:For the listeners, we've mentioned the term LC a few times now. That's aviation life support equipment. For fighter pilots, this includes things like helmets, oxygen masks, inflatable life rafts and vests, harnesses, flares, radios, and signaling devices for post evacuation survival.
Fred:It kinda gives us a a hunched forward position in the seat. Mhmm. Kind of a bad posture to start with. Compound that with, you know, the the weight of our helmet with the g forces on top of that. You know, you We're pulling up to 7 and a half g, so your head, your neck is experiencing, like, a few 100 pounds of Yeah.
Bryan:That's crazy.
Fred:Which your neck is not designed for, obviously. Yeah. So ways to mitigate that going forward. I'm still, you know, doing a lot of physio, a lot of chiro. And then I've been also working with my physiotherapist to get the like a it looks silly, but it's called an Iron Neck.
Fred:It's like a neck strengthening device. So I've I've been trying to implement that more at the squadron because I'm not the 1st guy to have neck issues. I had a good friend of mine not too long ago have to stop flying the F18 because of neck issues. So it's definitely something that we were dealing with and something that we have to really, keep on top of, you know, be I look at it, let's try to be preventive instead of reactive, you know, to injuries.
Bryan:So, yeah. Where do you find pilots tend to struggle on the F 18?
Fred:Okay. So initially, what I struggle with and what every fighter pilot struggles with initially, and we've already touched on this a little bit, is that you're now using the F 18, an airplane as a weapon system.
Bryan:Mhmm. So the
Fred:biggest thing, the biggest kinda mind shift is going from just flying an airplane, focusing on flying the airplane, taking off, landing, all that jazz. But now you're doing it always with another jet or another 3 jets, so a formation of 2, formation of 4. And on top of that, you're employing all the tactics that you have to know while also employing all the sensors you have on board. So
Bryan:That sounds like a lot.
Fred:Yeah. So going through and, you know, the F 18 is the only tactical single seat airplane in the Canadian Armed Forces. Right? We're we're always alone in the cockpit. Mhmm.
Fred:So you have a lot to deal with at the same time. So what a lot of guys, myself included, struggle with when we sir 1st started the training, yeah, we have a kind of a little riddle that we remember what our priorities are as as fighter pilots. As wingman, the first one is formation. 2nd one is sensors. 3rd one is calm.
Fred:So formation is always the number one priority. Like, if if you as a wingman stay with your flight lead, they're gonna be safe. He's gonna keep you safe. Yep. Or he should theoretically.
Fred:2nd priority becomes sensors. So operating your sensors, operating your radar, operating your sniper pod, anything else, your dispenser system, that becomes the 2nd priority. And the 3rd priority is, is calm. You know, we have a lot of tactical Brevity communications that we have to use when we're talking to our ground controllers, when we're talking to other formation members.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Fred:So, yeah. So the hardest thing initially is trying to learn how to work your your sensor. I'm gonna use the radar here because it's our biggest sensor we use in the Hornet, while also effectively maintaining formation off your flight lead Yeah. And communicating at the same time. So you're doing, like, you know, 6 things at once, but you have to prioritize those in the right order.
Bryan:So it's kind of similar to pilots who've trained in the Canadian Armed Forces, will know the saying, aviate, navigate, communicate. Except because you're in a formation, you don't need to worry about the navigate piece. So it's more like, aviate, operate, communicate.
Fred:Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And then operate is all the sensors because, you know, your Aurora guys, you had the the sensor operators in the back that could help you. But on the Hornet, you're alone. So you have to not only do you have to fly, you have to fly off your formation lead, and then you have to operate your sensors effectively to, you know, to sensors effectively to, you know, to detect and kill the
Bryan:enemy. Yeah. So I usually ask, how can they overcome this? But I think you've kind of answered that with your list of priorities.
Fred:Yeah, exactly. Like, you overcome that by prioritizing the proper things at the proper times, but also how do you help yourself on the ground? Do a lot of chair flying, obviously, like any pilot will tell you going through the the training. And we have simulators at Bagaville and at Cold Lake that we can use when it's available, when it's not being used by another formation by a trip. We can get into the sim, and we can really practice on that.
Fred:And it's a really, really good, tool for us.
Bryan:Yeah. And it's that full motion and all the whole 9 areas?
Fred:It's not full motion, but, it's like 3 60 view. And the cockpit is 100% the same as
intro:the jet.
Bryan:Pretty high fidelity and Yeah.
Fred:Exactly. Yeah.
Bryan:So the F18 is one of the few aircraft we have that carry munitions. What is it like to drop or fire munitions? Is it exciting or does it just become part of the job?
Fred:Yeah, exactly. So, on the F 18, we have numerous weapons, both air to air and air to ground. Air to ground, we have the gun in the front. You know, we have our 20 mic mic gun. We have our air bombs for air to ground deliveries.
Fred:We have laser guided bombs. We have GPS guided bombs or a combination thereof. And then for air aero, you know, we have our missiles that we can use, like Sidewinder and and whatnot for any air air to air engagement. So we have quite a few weapons that we have to know how to use. And then when you first use them, for example, the first time I fired the gun or the first time I dropped a live weapon was incredible.
Fred:It was Yeah. Can't believe it. Once again, I can't believe I'm doing this for real.
Bryan:Yeah. What a rush.
Fred:Yeah. So the first the first time you do it, it's a huge rush, but then obviously, you still wanna make sure that you're doing doing it properly.
Bryan:Yeah.
Fred:And then, once kind of you've done it a few times, like, the novelty wears off like anything in life, but you really become hyper focused on on releasing safely and properly and just, you know we wanna make sure that we're we're dropping on our weapon at the right spot at the right time. Yeah. You know, that we don't have any collateral damage. So that's that's really what your focus is on is is like, I don't wanna I don't wanna have to hurt anyone that I I don't have to kind of thing, you know?
Bryan:Yeah. It's a huge responsibility.
Fred:Exactly. Yeah. And then, so once the novelty has worn off of of employing live weapons, it becomes a lot more like, you know, I just want to make sure that when I, when I release this weapon, it's it's going to the right spot.
Bryan:Yeah. Just being as precise and professional as possible. Exactly. Yep. Yeah.
Bryan:That makes sense. So this might be a silly question, but what's it like the first time you break the sound barrier?
Fred:Yeah. So unfortunately, very underwhelming. Yeah. I'm really sorry to break it to you. So I've done it.
Fred:The first time I broke the sound barrier was on the T30 Talon. It is a supersonic trainer.
Bryan:Okay.
Fred:It was a bit more pronounced than the Talon because it's, it's a smaller airplane. So once we hit the sound barrier, the speed of sound Mach 1, not right away, but a bit later, you had kind of a little bump that you could feel.
Bryan:Okay.
Fred:But if not, like, for example, bringing the sound barrier in the F18, the only reason you know you're going supersonic is by looking at your HUD and then Really? Jet telling you that you're over Mach 1.
Bryan:Okay.
Fred:They're from inside the cockpit, there's no sound difference. There's no, vibrations. There's no there's nothing really.
Bryan:Okay.
Fred:And I've honestly never heard a, like, a shock wave from the ground. So
Bryan:No? Yeah.
Fred:And we can't hear it, obviously, in the jets. No,
Bryan:of course, because you're going faster than it.
Fred:Yeah. So, unfortunately, very underwhelming. Okay. But, but it is pretty cool when, you know, you're flying tactically and then you look down like, Oh, I'm going supersonic. Cool.
Fred:And then you each move on to the
Bryan:next thing. Yeah. I mean, I remember even in the Harvard when you started having a speed that could be measured in mock, you're like, I'm going mock something. That's kinda cool.
Fred:Yeah. Exactly.
Bryan:Well, very, it's a cool concept.
Fred:Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.
Bryan:So you've talked about LFE, or large force exercises. Yeah. Those would involve dogfighting friendly nations. Correct? Yeah.
Bryan:Correct. Which country do you find has the most difficult opponents? So
Fred:anytime we do any training with our partners, you know, we're pretty much always training with NATO partners.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Fred:So I'll talk to you when we went to the Netherlands on Friesian flag or when we went to the UK with Cobra Warrior. A lot of times when we train, our partner countries, our NATO partners, will they're going to be threat replicating an enemy threat. So they'll fly not the way they usually would, just to replicate flying as an enemy.
Bryan:Right. Because their aircraft would have different capabilities and different tactics.
Fred:But sometimes just for our own proficiency, we'll go, like, 1 on 1 for any, we call it with individual range engagements with, with other fighters. So for example, when I was in the UK, I went and did, air combat maneuvering, which is 2 versus 1 dogfighting Mhmm. With a Eurofighter Typhoon out of Walssemyth. So Yep. That's pretty cool.
Fred:We're over in the North Sea, and it's me and my flight lead, 2 Hornets. And we have, the Eurofighter behind us who's, playing the the enemy, if you will. Mhmm. And, it's like 321 fights on kinda thing. And, I can't really say that any one NATO country is is better than the other because we're all trained the same way.
Fred:Mhmm. So it really what is has a more or a greater impact on the fight is the capabilities of the aircraft. Yeah. If you're dogfighting, you're fighting a typhoon, which has, like, pretty good thrust to weight ratio, or, like, it's gonna be better than you in certain ways. But once again, like the Hornet, if we go we get slow and we go get into what we call our one circle fight, where imagine, like, you're you're doing a knife fight inside of, like, a telephone booth.
Fred:Like, that's where the Hornet really is excels at. And so Yeah. You wanna try to get your your enemy to to follow you into your favorite fight so that you can defeat them.
Bryan:Yeah. That makes sense. On that same note, you mentioned that the capabilities of the aircraft are important in those exercises. We're still using older 4th generation fighters. Do you find that our training and competency can help overcome newer tech?
Bryan:Or is it pretty difficult?
Fred:Yeah. So one thing that I've found, that I've been really proud of is that anytime, like, us Canadians show up with the F18, like, yes, it is a bit of an older jet. It's a 4th generation fighter. We're flying with, like, 4th and a half gen or 5th gen fighters out there. And we just have to be upfront with what our capabilities are.
Fred:But whatever is given to us in the mission, we do it really well. And it's really cool to see, part of your nation's, like, you know, working with the Americans and the Brits. They see us Canadians like, Oh, you guys, like, you're doing pretty good with what you have. And that's that's kind of our, our pride and joy is, being able to still, with the equipment that we have, go out and and give our very best and, and still, like, play a pretty big part in the overall mission. That's awesome to hear.
Bryan:Yeah. So how do you think our training will change at the tactical level when we upgrade from 4th Gen to 5th Gen fighters? Is that going to be like a huge shift in tactics and how we do business?
Fred:Yeah. So like you said, there'll be a very, very big shift, a mindset shift. And the biggest one is to do with security. You know, the 4th gen fighters, we can take the F 18 on the road, do a cross country. We can do all the tactics that we we train to in the jet itself, in our airspace.
Fred:The big paradigm shift going to the f 35 and to any 5th gen fighter is that a lot of the tactics that they use are super sensitive, and, they can't be replicated in the air because of security threats that will be maybe watching watching those things to get more information. So the big shift, is that, for example, going to the F35, a lot more of our tactical missions will be flown in the simulator. You know, we'll still do stuff in the airplane, but up to a certain level. Everything else will be done in the simulator. So definitely a lot more time spent in the sim for a 5th generation of fighters.
Fred:But obviously, the guys are still meeting their minimum number of hours every year in in the jet.
Bryan:Yeah. So that'll be one of the biggest changes. It's just the, mindset on how we train and where we train.
Fred:Exactly. Yeah. So it'll be a it's a big shift. You know, with the F 35, we won't be able to really take the jet down the road Mhmm. Per se.
Fred:We won't be able to do a lot of the things that, you know, we can enjoy doing with the F 18. So it'll definitely just be a mindset that we'll have to get used to.
Bryan:Yeah. And I think that's something that we're seeing kind of across many air forces though, is this push for higher levels of simulation, obviously because of cost savings, but also because you can have a higher fidelity. We're getting to a point where simulators are getting very good and you can have that higher mission fidelity where you can actually go and do the business versus just simulating it somewhere where there's artificial constraints that get put on the mission.
Fred:Yeah, exactly. And, you know, for example, in the F-eighteen, there's, there's some stuff that we just don't do in the airplane because it would be negative training for us to do so. Mhmm. It's better to just go in the simulator and replicate through the simulator, any of the threats that we're going up against. It's better for us that way than actually going to the jet and trying to replicate something that that doesn't really work.
Bryan:Yeah. That makes sense. What's the best day you've ever had in an F 18?
Fred:Best day that I've ever had in an F 18? I'd have to say it was not too long ago. This past September, I'd exercised Cobra Warrior in the UK. It was me and my good friend, who's now also my brother-in-law. We were both in the same formation.
Fred:He was my element lead, and I was his wingman. And, we're, going to execute some dynamic targeting. So we're pretty much just flying around, refueling, waiting for for the higher level operations to give us a dynamic task, so a target to to go, drop weapons on. So him and I are just, you know, first time flying together overseas in a large force exercise, and we get given this, you know, this dynamic task. You know, alright, you have to go drop weapons and this number of weapons on this target.
Fred:The target just so happened to be in Scotland.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Fred:We're flying over the North Sea. So him and I get ready, you know, we do our our fighter to fighter breeze to go drop, and it was just so cool just being with an old friend that I did all my pilot training with, who's also family now, and Yeah. And go and and doing the business, as we say, doing the mission, dropping our simulated weapons and Skaal, and turning back around, and just coming back just feeling like absolute heroes. Even if we were only a very, very small part of the entire mission, it was pretty cool.
Bryan:That is really cool, though. You work for so many years, and then you sometimes get these opportunities where you're there with a friend who you've worked through it all with too. And you're like, here we are. We're actually out here doing what we trained to do. And how cool is this?
Fred:Yeah. And then, like, he did an incredible job as a fly lead. We did pretty well as a formation. Not just the 2 of us, but there was 4 of us total. So we're it was just a really, like, cool moment.
Fred:Like, hey, we we had fun, but we also did pretty good out there. So That's awesome. Yeah. It's really cool.
Bryan:What's the hardest day you've ever had in an F18?
Fred:Yeah. So hardest day? I talked about it earlier, but I wouldn't say there's there's been one really, really difficult day, but very uncomfortable be crossing the Atlantic or any long, long flight in the F18. After a couple hours, you just, like, need to get some blood flow going. You need to get out and stretch your legs.
Fred:Mhmm. And you can't always do that. So definitely the most challenging or the most, uncomfortable flights are those long transits, long cross countries.
Bryan:Yeah. That's fair. I heard you recently had a memorable flight on your personal airplane. Can you tell us about that?
Fred:Sure. So, my father and I, a few years ago, we bought an airplane together, a small, a Stinson 108-two. So it's an airplane, a Tel dragger airplane.
Bryan:It's so beautiful.
Fred:Tube and fabric. It's like an old retro car. Right? And it was built in 1947. Obviously, it's been fully restored since then a few times.
Fred:So, yeah, we bought that thing together. We've been maintaining it ourselves for a few years now. So we put the aircraft from a certified category to owner maintenance. And ever since we bought the airplane, know, we were buying the air the airplane from, an older gentleman that hadn't flown it in a few years. So the airplane just needed a bit of tweaking and troubleshooting just to for example, for the engine, it's an older engine as well, just to make sure that everything was running smoothly.
Fred:So we've had, like, little things here and there with the engine, but nothing major at all. So, yeah, this happened this past summer. It was in early June. It was the first time we took the airplane out for a flight in the summer. So, you know, we opened up the hangar doors, and it was myself and my fiancee.
Fred:We got in the plane. All we were intending to do was just a a nice little female flight around the area just for fun. Do about an hour in the local area. Just look look at the sights. You know, we we only fly about a 100 knots in that thing, so it's just fun sometimes.
Fred:It's kinda like a motorcycle ride. Just go out. Right? And Yeah. Just explore.
Bryan:You don't have to have a reason. Just go go for a flight.
Fred:Yeah. It's cool sometimes to just go flying for the sake of it. Right? Yep. So we take off, and about 10 to 15 minutes into our flight, we're heading, over the Sagne River towards Bagaville.
Fred:And we took off from a small airport called Saint Anare, which is to the north of Bagaville. And then I start feeling a slight change in vibration from my engine, slight change in sound, and, I just noticed, like, a a change in power output, if you will, from the engine. So I started looking at yeah. My my instruments, and then we have one gauge on the on the airplane that, is an EGT, so exhaust gas temperature gauge. And I started looking at every we have 6 cylinders, so I started looking at every cylinder.
Fred:And then I get to number 4, and I see that cylinder number 4 is a few 100 degrees colder. So I'm like, okay, it's just it's not firing anymore. But usually, just like a spark plug that's not firing anymore
Bryan:or Mhmm.
Fred:You know, it can be something very, very benign and very basic. So I just look at, my fiancee. I said, hey, babe. Like, Yeah. Number 4 is not firing anymore.
Fred:This is the cylinder. It's probably just a spark plug. We're just gonna turn back around and go and go land because, you know, you don't wanna purposely fly, you know, an older especially an older engine like that, on 5 cylinders just for fun. Right?
Bryan:Yeah. For sure.
Fred:So we turned back around, started heading back towards Saint Honore, the airport where we're based at. And, about 2 to 3 minutes after that, approximately 10 miles from the airfield, all of a sudden, we're about a a 2,000 feet AGL at this point, so above ground level. And the engine just starts making this absolutely horrible sound, like Yeah. Bang, bang, bang. Huge vibrations, huge loss of power.
Fred:Yeah. And then, like, any pilot will tell you in an emergency situation, it just took me a few seconds to be like, what the heck is is going on? Like, is this happening for real kind
Bryan:of thing?
Fred:Yeah. And then I start trying to troubleshoot, operating the different, the mixture level, like, to the different magnetos, switching fuel tanks. I'm trying everything just to to see what you know, trying to find what's going on. At the same time, I, you know, I look at my fiance and I said, babe, like, this is not good. Start looking for a field.
Fred:My fiance's a nurse, so she stayed, like I was really stressed. She was, like, super calm. Like, she was like, okay. Yeah. No problem.
Fred:You're doing great, Fred. Like, keep doing it. And I'm like, wow. Wow. Like,
Bryan:No pressure.
Fred:Yeah. You're way too calm for me right now. So we start she starts looking for a field. I declare an emergency with the the airport. So, you know, Saint Donaire tower.
Fred:Mayday, mayday, mayday. My golf hotel, 10 miles east. We're having an engine engine issues, engine vibrations. I'm gonna come back, runaway 36, which was like the the runway pretty much ran on my nose. So ATC, you know, they they copy the emergency.
Fred:They say, Mike Gough Hotel, like, airport is yours. You're number 1. Rental, your choice. Do you require any further assistance? So, as he's telling me this, I'm still flying the airplane, obviously.
Fred:Right? I have 88, navigate, communicate, and the engine is just not producing any power anymore. I'm having to to trade altitude for air speed to keep the airplane flying, And, it's pretty evident to me, like, in the windshield that the the runway is getting further and further up on my windshield. I'm like, I'm it's 7 miles ahead of me. I'm not gonna make this.
Bryan:Yeah.
Fred:So at that moment, after ATC tells me that, I I reply, my gov hotel, unable. We're landing on the highway. We're landing on the highway between Shakuni and Tatoo Sac, which was We had just flown over a highway, a road, and as my girlfriend was calling out fields, you know, to the right of us, I was looking at them and they looked too short. They looked kind of steep. And, you know, you can't verify the condition of a field.
Fred:You know, it might be pretty wet, and you could just dig right into the to the soil, right? Yeah. So in that moment, I made the decision that we had just flown over a highway and that I was gonna be putting the airplane down on the highway, so landing the highway. So I started kind of joining a a left hand downwind, if you will, for for the either road. There's about a a mile stretch of highway.
Fred:There's, houses on either side. ATC, like, when I when I said I'm landing on high over, they're like, Roger, like, we're dispatching an emergency crews. You know, there's not much more at that point they can do. Right?
Bryan:Yeah. Yeah.
Fred:So I I keep flying the airplane, join a left downwind for the the road. And then my 2 big things here are well, there's houses on either side, so there's gonna be power lines. And also, there's cars on the road. Right? It's it's a highway.
Fred:So as I'm making my Dan win, I look to see I'm trying to find a good moment where I can turn in for the final, where there's no cars that are incoming towards me. And then just just my luck that day, there was some construction further up on the road where there was a very long portion of the road where there was no incoming car. So I'm like, perfect. This is a good moment to turn in. I turn in towards the road.
Fred:And then, as I turn on to final, I pass over this one last car, the Ford F150 pickup truck. It's white. I'm looking at the guy in the eyes, and then he I he's probably looking back at me like, what the heck is going on? Right?
Bryan:Oh my gosh.
Fred:And then the last thing I have to look out for is all those power lines. And, they're really hard to see Yeah. Because there's there's no, like, buoys on them or anything that or high vis markers that I could see. So I get on final. I I'm keeping my speed a bit a bit higher so I can have more maneuverability from the airplane.
Fred:I fly over one set of power lines thinking that those are the last ones. And then I look up and I see another set of power lines, like, kind of right on my nose. And so I, like, do a little bit of a a duck of fuel. I duck under the the other set of power lines, a little bit of a bunt. And then then, yeah, then I'm under all the power lines, land on the road, like, a a 3 point landing with a tow drag around the road.
Fred:And then, yeah, start using the brakes. And then with the I had about 20 miles an hour left on the airplane of of energy, of kinetic energy. So I I just looked up to the right, and there was a little nice little gravel driveway. And I said, well, that looks like a good place to park. So I just used my speed and kinda just turned into the parking lot.
Fred:The engine, like, shut down. And And then I look at my fiance, and we both look at each other like, did that just really happen? You know? Like, holy moly. We're we're lucky to be alive.
Fred:Right?
Bryan:Dude, I'm, like Yeah. Fully clenched up right now here listening to this.
Fred:This is crazy. It happened very, very quickly. And then so we get out of the airplane. You know, the adrenaline's, like, through the roof at this point. You're just like, wow.
Fred:I can't believe this just happened. And then I'm looking at the cars, like, expecting for a few cars or anything something to pull up to the to the airplane, but cars just kept driving on the road as if nothing had ever happened. And then finally, about 2 minutes later, some guy pulls up on a bicycle and he goes, was that, like, was that on purpose? Like, you're why why'd you guys land here? And I'm like, sir, like, I did not wanna land here today.
Fred:Like, we we tried an end of failure. Can you please just call the police maybe and and help us out? And so as he goes off to call the police, I go to the engine. I open up the kellin for the engine, and then as I I open it, I see there's, like, just oil all over the place. So I knew, like, yeah.
Fred:I knew at that moment that, okay, something actually did happen. And, yeah. So turned out to be just long story short, to finish the story, the intake valve on my number 4 cylinder, it came loose.
Bryan:Okay.
Fred:We don't know why. You know, it's it's hard to kinda because we're not we're not technicians or anything like that. It's hard to to know why. But, the intake valve came loose, and those engines are known for doing this, this particular type of engine. The intake valve went into the was drawn in into the cylinder by the piston and then punched out through the cylinder.
Fred:So there was a big hole in the cylinder.
Bryan:Oh, wow.
Fred:So obviously the engine was not producing any power and just I lost all my oil in like a minute.
Bryan:So Yeah. So was that a big fix or not too bad?
Fred:Actually, we got real lucky. We have a really good friend of ours who has a bunch of, parts for this airplane and is a real subject matter expert on these these airplanes. And he had a cylinder waiting for us ready to to use, so we we were just able to change the piston, change the cylinder. And, about a week later, my my father, took off from that same road with Transport Canada approval and, the police blocking and everything. So took the plan on the side of the road and took back off, a week later.
Bryan:So do you guys feel good again flying it? No like, did your fiance feel good getting in the plane still?
Fred:Or Yeah. Like, right after it happened, she she was a bit shaken up, like, especially when the, the adrenaline started wearing down.
Bryan:Yeah. For sure.
Fred:But, again, really surprising. I'm really proud of her. She, you know, a couple weeks later, said, I'm going flying. Do you wanna come with me? Like, don't feel like you have to.
Fred:Not at all. Right after what happened. And she said, I'm flying with you.
Bryan:So That's awesome.
Fred:She's a real she's a trooper.
Bryan:What is the most fulfilling part of your job?
Fred:Most, fulfilling part of my job, kind of as as I'm walking towards the F 18, you know, I've just done a bunch of mission planning and preparation for the flight where you kinda you're focused, right, on on the mission. And as I'm walking to the F 18, it's kind of that moment, like, wow. Like, this is pretty cool. I'm one of the one of only few people in this entire country that, you know, is given the keys to an f 18 to go fly. Right?
Fred:It's I'm super privileged to do that, and it's a it was a dream come true. And every time every flight, I try to kinda pinch myself like, hey, man. Like, you're you're flying an F18 all alone, and, like, the government and your leaders and everyone else is trusting you to fly this thing. So Mhmm. It's pretty cool.
Bryan:In 30 seconds or less, if I'm a pilot in training, why should I want to fly the F18? What makes it unique, and who would that appeal to?
Fred:Yeah. So the F 18, it's the only tactical single seat aircraft in the, Canadian Armed Forces. You're the only one flying the jet. Right? And, you're the mayor of Cockpit City.
Fred:You get to make kind of your own decisions throughout the flight while still, you know, flying formation off of your flight lead and still, you know, being part of a larger team. So that's pretty cool. It's one of the only communities where pretty much everything you do is is tactics. Right? You're training for employing the f 18 as a weapon to help the guys on the ground, like the soldiers on the ground, or help, like, the the bigger mission.
Fred:Right? So that's that's pretty cool.
Bryan:Yeah. I mean, it sounds amazing. It sounds like a really cool experience. And I find it very interesting, the mix of, like, you need to be independent. You need to be able to fly by yourself in an aircraft.
Bryan:It's the only, as you say, the only solo aircraft we have. Well, sorry, the only solo tactical aircraft we have. But at the same time, you still need to be a team player. You guys super emphasize teamwork.
Fred:Yeah. Exactly. You're you're always flying with with another formation member, if not more. So we're always working together during the brief, the mission planning, the debrief. We're always, you know, you're flying your cockpit, but there's always someone else that's nearby you that's, that you have to work with.
Fred:Right? You're never really working alone.
Bryan:So we're down to our final three questions. We ask them to every guest on the show. What is
Fred:the most important thing you do to keep yourself ready for your job? Yeah. So most important for me, like work life balance. Take the time to be at home. Leave work at work.
Fred:Right? Try not to bring anything, home and, spend some time with my dogs, my fiance. Spend a lot of time I try to take at least an hour a day to go to the gym, stay active, stay fit. You know, especially as a fighter pilot, you wanna make sure that you you're fit to do the physically demanding tasks that, that that requires. And, and like I said earlier, just have a have a hobby.
Fred:Have something that you enjoy doing outside of work Mhmm. That kinda get, you know, gets you gets your mind off of work and, just to get away from a little bit, recharge, and then come back even stronger to
Bryan:work. Yeah. I like that. It's a good balanced answer. We've already talked about this a little bit, but it is crazy how all encompassing it can become if you let it.
Fred:Exactly.
Bryan:And it's so important not to let that happen.
Fred:I agree.
Bryan:What do you think makes a good pilot?
Fred:Yeah. So what makes a good pilot? I kinda liked the, we used to have a fighter weapons instructor course, which would be Canada's, like, top gun equivalent, if you will, for fighter pilots. And, the 3 words, 3 tenets that they, they follow is, you know, be knowledgeable, be credible, and, be approachable. So, you know, I think that that goes not only to fighter weapons instructors, not only to fighter pilots, but, like, any any pilot or any leader, really, in the military.
Fred:Like, be knowledgeable. Just know know your stuff. And even if you don't know, like, all the answers, you can always go back and and look it up, right, later on. That's that's why we we train. That's why we fight.
Fred:And it's just come back and and learn some lessons. Incredible. You know, I like have always act in the best interest of, like, you know, the team, and, just keep the trust of your peers high. Right? Just just be the guy that everyone wants to go to war with and that they can trust you no matter what.
Fred:And then be approachable. Just always be, you know, try to be as nice as possible. We all have our rough days and days where we just don't want to talk to anyone. Right? But, yeah, try to be the guy that people aren't scared to go up to and ask questions or talk or Yeah.
Fred:That's about it.
Bryan:I like that. Alright. For the final question, I want you to picture a new pilot. Let's say someone who's in their flight training right now in the RCAF. If you could give them one piece of advice, what would that be?
Fred:Yeah. So I'd say my one big piece of advice is, now when we first joined the air force to become pilots, we we see all the the steps that we have to get through to finally get to our goal. Right? And it can seem like a lot, like a mountain that you have to climb. Right?
Fred:Mhmm. All the upgrades, all the training phases and whatnot. So I'd say, like, try to really take everything, like, one flight at a time, one day at a time, and try to really enjoy that moment and that flight, because you're, like, you're never gonna get it back, and you might as well you know, if you're putting in all this effort and you're making all these sacrifices for something, like, at least just try to have fun. Yeah. Yeah.
Fred:Take it in. Like, be in the moment and look at, like, look at it day by day, fly by flight, and try not to look at the entire mountain ahead of you.
Bryan:Yeah. It's so easy to lose sight of that and to to get focused on, like, I gotta get this done. I gotta succeed. And to stop enjoying that. You're flying aircraft that most pilots in Canada would do anything just to have a female flight in.
Fred:Exactly. And then, you know, one day, I guess, you're you're gonna be a bit older and looking back at your young days and being like, oh, I miss those days. Right? So
Bryan:I already do.
Fred:Yeah. There there you go. So try to, yeah. Even if you're a a young buck moving up, the training system, just try to enjoy every flight.
Bryan:Alright, Fred. It's been so great to catch up again after all these years. And I just wanna thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to do this interview. So thank you very much.
Fred:Brian, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much, man. Yeah.
Bryan:Alright. That wraps up our chat with Fred about the CF 18 Hornet and life in the fighter force. For our next episode, we'll be sitting down with Colonel Dan Coutts, the current wing commander of 15 Wing Moose Jaw, to talk about his career flying the CH 146 Griffin, as well as his time currently as the wing commander. It was an interview I really enjoyed doing, and I highly suggest you check it out. Do you have any questions or comments about something you heard on the show?
Bryan:Would you or someone you know make a great guest, or do you have a great idea for a show? You can reach out to us at the pilot project podcast atgmail.com or on all social media at atpodpilotproject. We'd like to thank you for joining us in this new year and wish you a happy new year. And as always, ask for a strong start with your help with the big three. That's like and follow us on social media, share with your friends, and follow and rate us 5 stars wherever you get your podcasts.
Bryan:That's all for now. Thanks for listening. Keep the blue side up. See you.