Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Learn about the principles and practice of nonviolence as an active force for personal, social, and political change. Co-hosted by Stacie Freasier, Robert Tyrone Lilly, and Jim Crosby, the show covers current events, learning opportunities, and nonviolent direct action taking place locally. Airs 1st Thursdays of every month from 1-2 pm CT at KOOP Community Radio 91.7 FM in Austin, Texas, and streaming online at koop.org.
Well, it's a hot time in the capital come Monday afternoon. It's Moral Monday, and it can't come too soon. It's a hot time for senators who need to change their tune. A hot time's coming Monday afternoon. We're gonna make our voices heard till we can't be ignored, like Moses with a word from the Lord.
Speaker 1:Nonviolence is our method, justice our only sword. New powers that be know we can't be ignored. We're gonna shut down Alec and its flood of fascist laws. We'll shine a light and mend our country's flaws. Yeah.
Speaker 1:We'll create democracy that like you never saw. Your frozen hearts are just about to thaw. We get the AK's off the street and our families out of jail. The police union is not too big to fail. We get money out of politics, our votes are not for sale.
Speaker 1:Don't tell us that's a check-in the mail. And we're gonna fund our public schools and pay teachers to teach, keep libraries full so knowledge is in reach. Will DEI and CRT and exercise free speech find leaders who can practice what they preach? So it's a hot time in the capital come Monday afternoon. It's Moral Monday, and it can't come too soon.
Speaker 1:It's a hot time for senators who need to change their tune. Hot time's coming Monday afternoon. Hot time Monday afternoon designed for the Moral Mondays movement. Gonna play one more song at the outset here called Take My Story based on Mississippi John Hertz spike driver's blues. Take my story and tell It's time to raise it up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, raise it up. Got two jobs and can't pay the rent, can't afford insurance, can't save a cent. So take a tour, mister politician, through my neighborhood. Come to my neighborhood. See if you can truly tell me you serve the common good, common good.
Speaker 1:You say you're gonna take my children, take my kids from me, my kids from me. Not till my body's cold and dead and my spirit lies free. Spirit's flying free. Take my story and tell it to the congress. Gonna make them see
Speaker 2:what to do to me,
Speaker 1:what to do to me. Okay. With that, I'm kicking it to our guest engineer, Will, who for whom we're so thankful. So, Will, if you'll introduce yourself in the show, that'd be great.
Speaker 3:Thanks, Jim. My name is Will. I'm here as the the guest engineer today. I appreciate you joining us for Austin's Nonviolent Radio Hour with Jim Crosby and brother Robert Tyrone Lily. We're gonna get started here.
Speaker 3:We're talking about problems not people. Principle three of the Kingian philosophy. Is that right, Jim?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Principle three of Kingian Nonviolence as developed by our mentor, Bernard Lafayette, and, taught at the Selma Center for nonviolence, truth, reconciliation. So the the official statement of that of principle three is problems, not people. Attack forces of evil not persons doing evil. And it's broken down into 10 points that, I want to share with brother Rob when he's get here gets here.
Speaker 1:He's running a little late, but, that's why we played two songs at the outset today. And, I wanna start though with a, thing that I think is very helpful is is when we start thinking and talking about, the problems that we face. And one way to look at them and boil them down is just, you know, in the phrase, the wealth gap. And I've got a pyramid before me. It's in the book, Healing Affluenza and Resisting Plutocracy, And there's a helpful definition of, affluenza at the bottom of page seven where this pyramid appears in a chart below it bill up above it.
Speaker 1:Excuse me. It says affluenza generates anxiety, addiction, alienation around and within all of us driving an insatiable pursuit of more money, things, and mobility. It is a pandemic that empowers the rich, endangers the middle classes, taunts the poor, and ransacks the planet. So up above that is this pyramid of net wealth distribution compiled by Paul Cavell and Emily Loftus in 2020, but it's based on congressional budget office numbers from 2016. So ten years old and as bad as these numbers are, I'm sure they must only have gotten worse.
Speaker 1:So out there in, radio land, online, If you're listening and wanna, take notes, I'd recommend it because these numbers are are just they're worth having and and getting into our heads and and, being able to be realistic about our situation. So the top of the pyramid, 1% of the population of The US as of 2016 controls 42 of the net financial wealth. The next 9%, so it gets us up to 10% of the population, 9% controls 34% of the net financial wealth. So you think of that 42% plus 34% means that 10% owns 76 of the wealth in this country over three quarters. Then the next portion of the population, 40% of the population, is left with 23% of the net financial wealth.
Speaker 1:So that means the top 50% owns 99% of the wealth and leaves the bottom 1% of the population. Excuse me. The bottom 50% of the population with 1% of the wealth. So I'll go over those quickly again and just, encourage you to get those in your head and and see what we're up against. 1% of the population controls 42% of the net financial wealth.
Speaker 1:The next 9%, 34%, the next 40% own 23%, which means that the top 99% own excuse me. I'm getting myself mixed up. The top 50% of the population owns 99% of the wealth, and the bottom 50% of the population is left with 1% of the wealth of this country. So the disparate distribution of wealth in this country is a lot of what the background for the problems we'll be talking about. And so the first point I wanna make about principle three, attack forces of evil, not persons doing evil, is that doctor King, in particular, always distinguished between the actions of specific personalities and the drama of which they were a part.
Speaker 1:This did not mean that he did not address their unjust deeds. So how we strike the balance is the big question for me, and, I'm just gonna share with you a song, the lyrics to a song that I wrote right at a year ago, a little over a year ago when, mister Musk was still, running Doge, etcetera. So you'll see it's a little bit dated by the fast changing flow of events. But this indicates to you my struggle with this principle. You know, what's the fine line between, attacking people and attacking the the, problems that we face and that their, their actions are, perpetrating or perpetuating?
Speaker 1:So this song is called Piccolo 25 because the music to it is based on Piccolo Rag, which is from the nineteen twenties or thirties, Blind Boy Fuller. Says you gotta stop doing what you're doing to me, Donald. You don't, you're gonna run me wild. You gotta stop doing what you're doing to me, Don. I mean just what I say.
Speaker 1:You say you're gonna deport 11,000,000 folks. I'm wondering how to poke a stick in your spokes. You gotta stop doing what you're doing to me, Donald. You don't, you're gonna run me wild. I mean, you're just about to run me wild.
Speaker 1:You gotta stop doing what you're doing to me, Elon. You don't, you're gonna run me wild. You gotta stop doing what you're doing to me. I mean just what I say. If we give up on Earth to colonize Mars, what's the point of all them electric cars?
Speaker 1:You gotta stop doing what you're doing to me. You're just about to doge me wild. I mean, you're just about to run me wild. You gotta stop doing what you're doing to me, Abbott. You don't, you're gonna run me wild.
Speaker 1:You gotta stop doing what you're doing to me, Greg. I mean, just what I say. Between Operation Lone Star and your school voucher scam, every Karen Texan is gonna pick up and scram. You gotta stop doing what you're doing to me, Abbott. You don't, you're gonna run me wild.
Speaker 1:And this one just, in the last couple of weeks as we've been doing Moral Mondays in front of senator John Cornyn's office. You gotta stop doing what you're doing to me, Cornyn. You don't you're gonna run me wild. You gotta stop doing what you're doing to me, John. I mean, just what I say.
Speaker 1:Trump says jump. You ask how high. Your tail between your legs. You're leaping for this guy. You gotta stop doing what you're doing to me, Cornyn.
Speaker 1:You don't. You're gonna run me wild. I mean, you're just about to run me wild. And then finally, you gotta stop doing what you're doing to me, MAGA. You don't.
Speaker 1:You're gonna run me wild. You gotta stop doing what you're doing to me. I mean, just what I say. You tell me empathy has then gone out of style. Jesus tell me it makes life worthwhile.
Speaker 1:You gotta stop doing what you're doing to me, Maga. You don't you're gonna run me wild. I mean, you're just about to run me wild. So, again, that's my struggle. You can see right there.
Speaker 1:And I kinda went through it this morning and say, okay. How do those verses point us to key problems that we face and put the individuals in the context of the larger picture. So immigration, ecology coming up, the wealth gap certainly like, that pyramid that I, shared with you at the outset, plutocracy, education with the school vouchers, just denial of history in terms of, a lot of what MAGA is doing seems like, and authoritarianism and and bullying and and kowtowing to that. So with that, welcome, brother Rob. It's good to see you, and I'm gonna pitch you things through the course of this hour, I think, from from the Selma Center's elaboration on principle three.
Speaker 1:But tell us what's going on. How are you doing?
Speaker 4:Well, first of all, I'm glad I brought my my catcher's mitt so I can catch those pitches you throw my way. And I wanna say shout out to Stacy Frazier who's not with us. We miss you. We love you, and we bid you great solidarity as you deal with the the loss of your loved one. But have it not been for her, I wouldn't be here in this space as she's been the articulator behind this collaboration of ours.
Speaker 4:So, other than that, what's behind what's on my mind right now, I guess, I would say the topic that we have at hand, you know, we've had some violence in our community recently, hit close to home in Pflugerville, and I've been contemplating my response to that. I haven't used the social media platform because that's just not the way that I choose to address these very delicate issues. But I am involved in a couple of community conversations, and I have this form here at Co op Radio ninety one point seven FM that I can use to expound. So I'm looking forward to weaving some of those concerns into this conversation today. I think the loss of any life is a tragedy, and I include in that the loss of the life of the person who takes the life of another.
Speaker 4:They don't know it, but they are taking their own lives because we're inextricably connected to one another.
Speaker 1:One of doctor King's key points for sure. And and we'll the idea of societal addiction to, you know, a a level of affluence, privilege, etcetera. Just the way we become complacent or can separate off ourselves from whole groups of people is a big part of our theme today, I think. So yeah. We're approaching the fifteen minute mark.
Speaker 1:Will, you wanna take a minute and just, tell us what's shaking as far as PSA?
Speaker 3:I'd be happy to. So, co op has its DJ residency night at Community Garden this evening from five to 11PM. That's Community Garden, 1401 Cedar Avenue. We're gonna have the new kids on the block takeover. DJ Nimbus, Ross, Cool Kell, DJ Hulo, and the much loved DJ Creech.
Speaker 3:They're taking over the needles. I believe that's a vinyl only night. We've got a a couple of pieces of traffic before you guys dive back in, but appreciate the conversation here. Stay tuned. You're in tune to ninety one point seven Co op streaming on the worldwide web at koop.org.
Speaker 5:Business member support for Co op comes from Charles Melanson, architect. To learn how your business can support coop, go to coop.org/support.
Speaker 6:The National Day of Reason is a secular celebration for humanists, atheists, free thinkers, and the nonreligious. The day is celebrated annually on the first Thursday in May in response to the statutory observance of a national day of prayer in The United States, which many atheists and secular groups deem unconstitutional. A twenty twenty three survey of over 11,000 Americans by the Pew Research Center reported that 28% of them, a growing proportion, classify themselves as nonreligious. This trend towards secularism echoes a sentiment that was beautifully encapsulated by the late great Carl Sagan who famously stated extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Please join Co op Radio this Thursday, May 7 as we recognize and celebrate the National Day of Reason.
Speaker 1:Okay, Rob. You ready?
Speaker 4:I am ready. Welcome back to Co op Radio ninety one point seven FM, and you're listening to the Nonviolent Austin Radio Hour with Jim Crosby and myself, brother Rob Lilly.
Speaker 1:Okay. Principle three, attack forces of evil, not persons doing evil. Point one, as we break that down, doctor King always distinguished between the actions of specific personalities and the drama of which they were a part. This did not mean that he did not address their unjust deeds. The way I boiled that down this morning was focus on the drama, including unjust deeds.
Speaker 1:So like I said, I'm I'm kind of uncomfortable with this song I wrote on the basis of this principle because it names names. I think it's okay to name the names, but we need to to embed them in the larger story. So with my Donald Trump thing, I focus on deportation, so immigration being the larger story. What are your thoughts on that as you hear that? Distinguish between the actions of specific personalities and the drama of which they were a part.
Speaker 4:Thank you for your question. I would say this is a very important principle and a very important idea to grapple with. I'm African American. I'm a black person in America. And in my early years of trying to discern where my problems lied, whether whether they within me, whether they within my community, whether they within the hands of the oppressor that I identified as the white man, I struggled with making the distinction between either internalizing my own malady and making it one with myself and thus defeating any chance that I could change because I would see myself as incorrigible, irredeemable, or doing the opposite with the person externally, seeing the other person as the source of my pain.
Speaker 4:And so because this person is the source of my pain, his whole the whole the totality of his being is the source of my pain. His whiteness is my problem. Mhmm. And and and after thinking about that, taking it to its final conclusion, I realized I can see those same behaviors and attitudes and a a plethora of of persons, of human beings that span the color spectrum. Right?
Speaker 4:So if so if my problem doesn't lie in someone's color, then it can't be the person. So but what is bothering me? What's what's causing me angst? It's the way that person is treating me. It's the way that person, his choices, or their choices, or their policies are affecting my life.
Speaker 4:And that was unique because up until that time, I I didn't have I didn't have a sophisticated understanding of problems. I saw every problem as a personal problem. I didn't have a word to say personal problem because I didn't know a distinction. But I internalized everything personally. And the truth was there are social problems.
Speaker 4:And social problems require social solutions. And if we remove individuals, we do not change those social problems. Because social individuals, although they may contribute to the larger story as you've articulated it, we need to deal with the story. We need to deal with the the larger ramifications of whatever this person's attitude or behaviors represents. So so at the end of the day, all of that was simply to say, you know, I believe that we can't toss the baby out for the bath with the bathwater metaphorically speaking, right?
Speaker 4:Mhmm. Today, you can be my you can be my enemy. Tomorrow, you could be my ally. Mhmm. My hope is that a people and minds can change.
Speaker 4:Or what hope is there if that can't be true?
Speaker 1:Mhmm. And part of the way to talk about the baby is the dignity of every human individual. So, yeah, don't wanna toss that out.
Speaker 4:I mean, I believe that there's no such thing. I think I think too often we label situations as bad or good prematurely.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 4:And we call something good and we qualify it in totality as something beneficial or we call something bad and we qualify it in this totality as detrimental. But the truth is sometimes some of the most amazing benefits have come to my life through great struggle with things that others would probably call bad. So so, you know, if there is a divine order of things, if there's a divine, you know, frame in which all of this is playing out, then I think using the label of good and bad is too quick. Calling someone good or bad, identifying someone because of their behavior as good or bad is problematic.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I was reminded recently of the quote that, has gone around a lot since, I think it was Alexander Solzhenitsyn said that the that the line between good and evil runs through the heart of every person. And I believe that. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Wholeheartedly. Continue, please.
Speaker 1:Okay. Number two, human indignation about conditions was the focus of doctor King's energy and attention. Personalities are not the problem. What must be changed are the conditions under which some people operate.
Speaker 4:You know, I'm a person in recovery, and we have in the I'm not a member of any twelve step group, so let me just say that forth forthright. And I don't speak on behalf of any any twelve step group. And my opinions are my opinions alone. But I've learned so many things along my journey. And I remember in one of the meetings that I would attend in the support group, they would say, focus on principles not personalities.
Speaker 4:There'd be somebody that would come into the room and they would speak quite articulately about the principles of the organization or the purpose that we're in the room for. And sometimes we we we become so enamored with this individual that we would adore them. We would extol them. We would make put them on a pedestal above ourselves. Or the the reverse of that they would act a certain way and we demonize them.
Speaker 4:We would cast them out. Mhmm. So in order to avoid that cult of worship, right? We needed to be clear that there were principles that brought us together in this room. So in this movement, the same thing applies.
Speaker 4:I can't allow myself. And now 55 and I've read some history. I've read quite a bit of history at this point in my journey. I realized that there's no one person on which the whole arc of the universe pivots. We're all minor we're all microcosms in this movement of time.
Speaker 4:Mhmm. And so whether you are quote unquote, you consider yourself great or you consider someone great, the reality is we all have the potential to make impact in this world. But what are the principles that are driving my behavior? And so that's the quest that I have. Mhmm.
Speaker 4:As you know as I've as I've evolved over the course of my many years. I've had to I've had to ask I've had to interrogate my beliefs. Mhmm. What what holds my life together? What are my values?
Speaker 4:IE, what are my principles? And so, we we've entertained, I've chosen to entertain the Kingian Nonviolent Principles as a better solution to deal with the maladies of my life and in the in the world that I've I'm navigating with my life than some of the earlier undeveloped rudimentary ways in which I looked at this world which were based on no real metric. You know, I was just grabbing from here and there. I was socialized to information that I'd never questioned And now as a conscious man, I'm choosing to question the world that I live in and what I choose to stand on in this world as I walk out my my my my life.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I'm looking back. Personalities are not the problem. What must be changed are the conditions under which some people operate. As you talk about and think about what changed for you, what what conditions changed?
Speaker 4:Well, when you as as as you talk about that reading particularly, the conditions for me that have changed, two things that can change change. One was my perspective. Right? My my physical circumstance could not change until my fur until I first changed my perspective. Right?
Speaker 4:So I chose to evaluate my relationships. I chose to evaluate the information I was drawing on or the lack thereof because at some point, I wasn't really intentionally drawing on this information, but I was. Inadvertently, I'm listening to music. I'm listening to content that wasn't edifying me. It wasn't building me up.
Speaker 4:It wasn't giving me a more virtuous aspiration, right? I was I was living very base. And once I evaluated that, then, it gave me it gave me opportunity to look around and say, well, who do I want to look like? Where do I want to be? And as I began to identify those people in the world, I moved in that direction which in by virtue of that movement, I changed my conditions externally.
Speaker 4:Now, I still had to deal with some larger social challenges. Right? Those larger social challenges, for example, I have a felony conviction. Moving from one place to another doesn't change that in America. But what has to happen in this instance, I have to find community that can struggle with me to take a look at this perpetual punishment called, you know, post conviction penalties.
Speaker 4:And and and I my responsibility is to educate these people and rally point people to this cause so that we can together apply the kind of pressure on our government that says, you know what? This is not right. We shouldn't perpetually restrict people from housing, perpetually restrict people from the resources that they need for their lives, insurance, the elect the electorate, you know, be participating in the electorate. What kind of society are we saying we want? If this is how, you know, we we treat people that have quote unquote served their time.
Speaker 4:So, yeah, just because I've moved from one moment to if I've just because I've changed my attitude or my outlook doesn't mean that I've necessarily changed the the the root issues that still restrict my life. I need community to continue to struggle with me to realize that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And that emphasis on education, I think, is a perfect lead in for this next point. Nonviolence puts the forces of evil on a stage where the realities are played out in terms of their human consequences. It never accepts evil and unjust behavior as the total expression of the individual perpetuate perpetrating it. So putting putting the forces of evil on stage, so highlighting the reality, educating like you're talking about.
Speaker 4:Or it could be like what's being done with, No Kings protest, or any protest for that matter. When people stand in the public arena and this is why I think, you know, the forces that be would prefer to rule, create rules that restrict us from taking to the streets. Mhmm. Because in some instances, when done well, when done strategically, it can put the issues at hand before the public to really reflect on. Like what happened in Minnesota.
Speaker 4:Mhmm. These folks stayed out there, sweet, rain, and snow. Right? They stayed out there for days and weeks making known that we are not tolerating this. Mhmm.
Speaker 4:This is unacceptable. They forced the nation to look at the issue. Right? Yep. And now, the, you know, the the Democratic Party, for example, they sound a little bit more in alignment with what the people wanted, which was some redress as it concerns ICE now.
Speaker 4:People were screaming for abolition of ICE but in this instance, they were talking about not funding it without some significant alterations and how they they they refrain was we wanted to operate like other law enforcement agencies without masks and things like that. That's a step. Mhmm. But that step would not have been taken unless Mhmm. The people had taken to the streets and put the issue on the stage for the world to view for what it was.
Speaker 4:Yeah. And in this instance, the king had no clothes. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, increasingly, especially in midterm election, you're seeing how nonviolent activism is a significant part needs to be a increasingly significant part of the democratic process, especially when our votes our voting and our electoral process is threatened, you know, by by various moves. So I would say
Speaker 4:she I would just say say right now to that point, you know, this is the this is gonna be a real test of nonviolence because as the systems that govern us become more oppressive and they remove the mediums of redress, they remove the mechanisms for social change. They corrupt the system. We have less and less options at our disposal. We have to be more creative. And this is what, you know, and violence is a blunt instrument.
Speaker 4:It's like a hammer. And into a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Mhmm. And so, you know, there's you know, we could let the world and society tell us this this this thing called systematic strikes. Right?
Speaker 4:You know? Mhmm. The collateral consequences in these drones and all of these things, these missiles coming out of the sky. Violence doesn't really know sophistication. It it knows only one thing and that's destruction.
Speaker 4:And so I I am continuing to believe that there has to be ways in which we can creatively explore nonviolent approaches Mhmm. To addressing our issues. But, again, this is a moment of great test for this philosophy.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So nonviolence is an essential part of the little d democratic process.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 1:Okay. Another fifteen minute mark. Will, do we have more to say? I know Stacy always says these are our opinions and not necessarily the stations.
Speaker 3:Yeah. These are the opinions of your host today, not necessarily those of coop radio. You're listening to ninety one point seven on your FM dial, sitting in with Jim Crosby and brother Rob, Lily here at the Austin Nonviolent Radio Hour. Just one reminder, on Saturday night, we've got the co op DJ residency at the Brew and Brew located at 500 San Marcus. That's at East 5th And San Marcus Streets.
Speaker 3:Got a couple of DJs from co op that are gonna be down there. Shamiria Ann from Fervent Hearts who, if I'm not mistaken, was one of the apprentices on this show. Also DJ Photon from Full Blast and Pink Bee, that's with the Pink Beats Radio Hour. So that's on Saturday night, five to, I believe, 8PM. If you're not familiar with those shows, Fervent Hearts, Full Blast, Pink Beats, you can always listen to the last two weeks of co ops programming on our website, koop.org.
Speaker 3:Thank you, gentlemen.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Thank you. I wanna bring, with the background of of, say, at least three of the of the issues that we've brought up, immigration, the wealth gap, and voting, democratic process, have those in mind as we discuss this fourth point. The conditions we are dealing with and, again, this is elaborating on principle three of Kingian Nonviolence. The conditions we are dealing with are systemic and part of a general pattern of what happens to a group of people, not just individuals.
Speaker 1:Therefore, we have to attack the policies and practices that have governed, in effect, what is an illicit relationship or interchange between groups of people.
Speaker 4:Read that one more time because it was a it was a bit much in there.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And as I reread it this morning, I just boil it down to injustice creates unequal relationships between groups, not just individuals.
Speaker 4:Oh, yes. Okay. Mhmm. You have a question you wanna put with that, or you just create
Speaker 1:I'm just throwing these softballs to you because I know you can run and riff on them. But, yeah, just as you think about impact of unjust policies and practices on groups, what are the ones that stand out to you?
Speaker 4:As I think about unjust policies and practices, what stands out to me what stands out to me is the I was watching a couple of programs on the news, the insurance industry, the corporations. And, you know, we pay into these premiums. They create all of this fine print. We have a medical condition, which is almost certain to happen. And then we get a denial saying, this is not covered under this policy.
Speaker 4:Mhmm. And so all of the money we've expended over the last fifteen to twenty years. Mhmm. At this particular junction and the fine print we're told this procedure, this policy is not medically necessary. Therefore, you're denied.
Speaker 4:And usually these things happen in the moment of great crisis and family systems. Mhmm. And now this whole family system. And this is not an isolated phenomenon. This is this is not something that only affects any one individual.
Speaker 4:Because it's an individual. That's an individual problem. That's a personal problem. Mhmm. But when it affects hundreds of thousands of people, we have a systemic problem.
Speaker 4:Mhmm. Just quick side note, I got a message from somebody out of the blue. I don't know why somebody would think this was appropriate to do. But they sent me a text message with some Google research that they had done telling me that there were no such things as systemic racism and now, I know this person. We've had dealings with each other.
Speaker 4:I couldn't understand why they would decide sporadically to send me a message as if that was something I wanted to engage on. I called them on the phone first make sure, was this a spam or this some some person that sabotages account? Somebody's playing a game on me but no, he actually he actually chose to send that to me. I didn't have the time when when I called him to engage with him. But I remember after, you know, with the the limited exchange that we did have, I remember telling him that I didn't have the time to to discuss with him on the topic right now but at an appropriate time, we could have a meaningful conversation if he desired but after thinking about it, I I I'd hesitated and thought to myself, I don't know if that was a a choice that I would prefer to pursue because for whatever reason, he's come to this conclusion and it didn't appear to me even in the short short exchange we had that he was willing to change his mind.
Speaker 4:So, I decided, you know what? I'm going to, that's when I did decide to use my social media because he is in in my social media network. So, he could see some of the things that I put out there and perhaps he would be, you know, better supported in reevaluating his ideas with a non direct approach. Right? Directly approaching him.
Speaker 4:I think he was looking for an argument. And I wasn't interested in giving him an argument. But I said I had to point out that there's some people in this world that don't believe in systemic historical problems.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 4:When I think about problems that relate to systems, I think about access to affordable housing. That's a that's a major phenomenon in our in our city. Right? When I think about systemic issues, I think about the history of redlining. I think about the history of the government's intentional the the VA loans that were they was in on the face available for every veteran but in practice, they were primarily being given to white veterans as opposed to black veterans.
Speaker 4:And mind you, my father was a veteran of World War two and so this is something that struck very close to home in my life, right?
Speaker 1:Contributing to the wealth gap we've done.
Speaker 4:Contributing because without as the property, as property accumulated over the course of years, in one particular community, then other communities were left behind and then what really is ironic is when folk then look at those communities and say, they just don't care about their communities but the truth is, let's just side note, in a in Texas alone, we had our last representative. I don't know who the African American person was that was sitting at the legislature in 1870, I think, 7076.
Speaker 1:As Reconstruction was taken back down. Yeah.
Speaker 4:During the end of Reconstruction, as that came to its conclusion. Right? As it was brought abruptly to its conclusion by the, you know, exploits of the Ku Klux Klan. We didn't have another African American representative in the legislature until Barbara Jordan. Mhmm.
Speaker 4:So that's almost one hundred years about eighty five to ninety years that this state systematically prevented African Americans. It wasn't that we weren't interested in participating in the governance of our communities. It wasn't that we didn't want resources for the development of our communities. It was that we were systematically attacked. Mhmm.
Speaker 4:By violent terrorist tactics of the Ku Klux Klan and other entities and prevented from participating in the process. And you know, as an ode to this unfortunate Supreme Court ruling, they stepped in with legal measures to prevent us from accessing the vote which then again, you know, destabilized us and prevented us from having, you know, access to the levels of power which would potentially change our condition. So, there are definitely historical systematic challenges and this young man, for example, he told me, oh, but that stuff is old. It's not, it it doesn't affect us today. So, when I'm talking with somebody like that I realize that I'm talking to a simpleton.
Speaker 4:He doesn't have a context for history. And trying to trying to have a sophisticated conversation with somebody like that. You're almost looking to be frustrated and and I don't I don't want to have disdain for this individual. So, I just decided to not engage. My hope is that in life, somebody will one day come into his life that he can value the information from and that individual will perhaps open the door to his consciousness.
Speaker 4:It may not be me and if I try to wrestle with and you know, here's another thing I don't do. I've made a decision not to delete people from my social media page. For what? I'm not going to be able to it's every time somebody says something disagrees me. Now there's some ends unsavory things that I may take off my page.
Speaker 4:But the reality is I cannot I cannot absolutely divorce myself from the environment around me in which there's disagreement. So I have to find a way to continue to be lovingly present in these people's lives even if I don't directly engage with them on these subjects. And this issue of systematic historical oppression is one of those issues that I have come to believe is an undeniably a truth in our society. Mhmm. One that I have so much evidence to support.
Speaker 4:I don't necessarily have to convince anybody to be confident in my position.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 4:I can let you be where you're at as wrong as you may be Mhmm. Or right as you think you are and and just accept that we just disagree with each other and continue to walk out my solutions.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Okay. I'm gonna read you a longish poem as we launch into this next one. And Okay. I'm gonna we're about at the forty minute mark, and we've done four out of these 10.
Speaker 1:So you're gonna have to discipline yourself, brother Rob, which Okay. I know you can do. Okay. But I wanted to I will do that. I told I told Stacy that I would share this poem because I think it may be the most radical that I can think of statement, or parallel understanding to this principle three, attack forces of evil, not persons doing evil.
Speaker 1:And it's by a mentor to me, the Zen Buddhist master, Thich Nhat Hanh, but especially a great teacher to Stacy and beloved. And this is a poem he wrote long ago called Call Me By My True Names. So don't say that I will depart tomorrow. Even today, I'm still arriving. Look deeply.
Speaker 1:Every second, I'm arriving to be a bud on a spring branch, to be a tiny bird with still fragile wings, learning to sing in my new nest, to be a caterpillar in the heart of flower, to be a jewel hiding itself in a stone. I'm still arriving in order to laugh and to cry, in order to fear and to hope. The rhythm of my heart is the birth and death of every living creature. I am the mayfly metaphorizing metamorphosing on the surface of the river, and I'm the bird that swoops down to swallow the mayfly. I am the frog swimming happily in the clear water of a pond, and I am the grass snake that silently feeds itself on the frog.
Speaker 1:I am the child in Uganda, all skin and bones, my legs as thin as bamboo sticks, and I am the arms merchant selling deadly weapons to Uganda. I am the 12 year old girl refugee on a small boat who throws herself into this ocean after being raped by a sea pirate, and I am the pirate. My heart not yet capable of seeing and loving. I'm a member of the Politburo with plenty of power in my hands, and I'm the man who has to pay his debt of blood to my people dying slowly in a forced labor camp. My joy is like spring, so warm that it makes flowers bloom all over the earth.
Speaker 1:My pain is like a river of tears, so vast that it fills up all four oceans. Please call me by my true names so I can hear all my cries and laughter at once, so I can see that my joy and pain are one. Please call me by my true names so I can wake up and open the door of my heart, the door of compassion.
Speaker 7:So that extra car you're not using anymore, maybe it's seen better days, maybe you've tried selling it and couldn't, but you know it's worth something. Donate it to Co op. We'll take care of everything. Go to coop.org, then click the support menu at the top of the home page to learn more.
Speaker 3:You're listening to the Nonviolent Austin Radio Hour with the opinions and articulations of brother Robert Tyrone Lilly and Jim Crosby. Thanks for tuning in to ninety one point seven on your FM dial. We're Co op Radio, Austin's Community Radio.
Speaker 1:So brother Rob with Thich Nhat Hanh and Call Me By By True Names as background, here's point number five as we elaborate on this principle of doctor King's. Oppressive personalities and perpetrators of injustice are also victims of the oppression they perpetuate. So think of that pirate in that point. For example, in The United States, many of the white majority have a false sense of superiority while a number of black or African Americans have a false sense of inferiority. You've touched on this already.
Speaker 1:How'd the poem strike you?
Speaker 4:Okay. Well, I wanna try to capture a little bit of this here, this thought, because this reminds me what I was thinking earlier today about Pflugerville, the shooting in there. What what what came to my mind is that I'm the shooter and I'm the one that's been shot. I'm both.
Speaker 1:Couple of minutes.
Speaker 4:You know? I'm both. Mhmm. And if I think if we can begin to wrestle with that it also makes me think of Ubuntu. Mhmm.
Speaker 4:The South African philosophy that says, in essence, my humanity is tied to your humanity.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Sometimes paraphrased, I am because we are.
Speaker 4:I am because we are.
Speaker 1:Because you are. Yeah. Mhmm. Mhmm.
Speaker 4:That's what it makes me think of. And it it makes me and I think if we could get to it and I love the way you concluded it. I think you used the word empathy.
Speaker 1:Compassion.
Speaker 4:Compassion. Yeah. Compassion. I was thinking empathy. But I think, you know, very well the same idea in the sense that if if as long if I can get to a place where I think about and I this is what's so challenging, I think.
Speaker 4:Because when when somebody hurts me or even it doesn't even have to be physical harm. Mhmm. I remember having that good discussion with a young man who's social media messaged me. I felt an emotion. I felt something that was stinging to me.
Speaker 4:Mhmm. And I wanted to dismiss him but I chose not to do that in a way that would be distasteful or harmful to him because what if? What if? What if he changes tomorrow? What if he's going through something?
Speaker 4:What if something happened to him recently that caused him to have this reaction? And I say something that only disparages him or inflames the situation, then I've then I I'm probably sealing the the deal. Mhmm. And then I I didn't wanna do that. It's I and I too have.
Speaker 4:And I love the part in the poem that says, I am arriving. The fact the fact of the matter is, I'm where I'm at now. Mhmm. Tomorrow may be in a different place, but there's definitely the fact is that yesterday, I wasn't where I'm at today. Mhmm.
Speaker 4:I'm a process.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Gotcha. Here we go. Ready? The conditions that confront us are not only systemic but are analogous to any communicable disease.
Speaker 1:Any vulnerable person may exhibit the disease's characteristics, for example, Thus, it is a mental health problem.
Speaker 4:So you have a question for me in that?
Speaker 1:Yeah. How is, for example, white supremacy a an addictive disease or analogous to one as this puts it?
Speaker 4:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And a mental health problem.
Speaker 4:That's an interesting question. I I do believe that again, let me go back to my metaphor about the recovery community. They talk about oftentimes, talk about addiction being or alcoholism being a disease. Right? Mhmm.
Speaker 4:And, you know, some people struggle with that. They want to condemn the person. Why do you keep doing this again and again and again?
Speaker 1:And you don't wanna take away their genuine responsibility.
Speaker 4:Right. Right. Right. And that's the struggle. So there's a tension in in this notion that this may be some kind of disease.
Speaker 4:How much of personal volition is involved? How much is a person's choice involved in this? All I know is that for me, when I when I wrestle with this idea of white supremacy or racism in America, I I think back to the origins of our country. We didn't start off this way. There was a mixing of the people, and there was no language to describe one group from another other than a religious designation.
Speaker 4:And then someone decided that they wanted to create a distinction and it had a reason. It had a motivation. We needed to divide the labor so that we could capitalize off of this this this, you know, demobilized people who if they band together, we would not have privilege. Mhmm. And so we they concocted myths myths and and other, you know, false pseudo scientific ideology to support it and people consumed it and it's been fed to us for so long that many people do not question its veracity.
Speaker 4:Right? Mhmm. But it had a it had it had an underlying economic motivation and it had a political and social purpose that benefited a group of people. So, whatever it is, I think it's a social disease. You know, that affects our entire society, not just the individual.
Speaker 4:The individual is the symptom. Mhmm. Of this largest climate that we're in. Right? Let's use that metaphor.
Speaker 4:This climate. Right? We go into a room and it's smoky and we start coughing. Right? I didn't put the smoke in the room, but I'm I'm I'm being harmed by the smoke in the room.
Speaker 4:And that's what's happening in our country. Mhmm. We need some ventilators.
Speaker 1:It's this ocean we're swimming in. We don't recognize the water. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Okay. Here we go. Socrates suggested that the idiot was a person who would not assume responsible participation in society. Thus, social ignorance what you're talking about?
Speaker 4:Say it one more read it one more time. Start from the top, please.
Speaker 1:Okay. Socrates suggested that the idiot was a person who would not assume responsible participation in society. Thus, social ignorance, people who don't know any better. Doctor King said in Birmingham that if you attended certain churches and heard the sermons that reinforced white supremacy over Negroes, you would not have acted otherwise either. Again, back to that pirate.
Speaker 1:You know, if I had been raised like the pirate, would I have done what the pirate did? Yeah. Yeah. Again, you don't wanna take away their responsibility.
Speaker 4:No. No. And what I always marvel at looking back at history, there were always there was always somebody or some groups of people within that larger group of persons who decided to break away from the pack. Showing us that they can be liberation from that that sickness that prevailed in our society. Mhmm.
Speaker 4:When you think about the Quakers, when you think about the the abolitionists. Mhmm. These were not this was not a monolithic group. This was a group of expansive human beings. But it that the origins of that philosophy started in the white community.
Speaker 4:Mhmm. Community that had been spoon fed on the same ideas that pervaded our society. But they they were able to resist it. They were able to articulate new ways of approaching being in community with other people. And that shows me that gives me hope.
Speaker 4:Mhmm. That in some way, we can create an environment today where people can be educated into a new way of thinking.
Speaker 1:What you got, Will?
Speaker 3:I'm sorry to interrupt you guys. We've got one more piece of traffic that we've gotta get through.
Speaker 8:Hi there. This is Selector Dale, the host of Roots Train. Join me every Sunday from noon until two for two hours of vintage Jamaican music. From ska to dance hall, from studio one to channel one, it's all here on Roots Train every Sunday from noon until 2PM on Co op, Austin's community radio station, ninety one point seven FM and koop.org.
Speaker 3:Welcome back to the Austin Nonviolent Radio Hour with brother Rob and Jim. I'm Will Schutz. You can hear my alter ego sometimes on roots train as ranking w. It sounds like this conversation is gonna have to be continued another week, gentlemen.
Speaker 4:Could happen. Could happen. It could happen. We miss you. Miss you, Stacy.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Mhmm. So we, as nonviolent people, want people to become engaged in self realization, growing to understand that they have the ability and a responsibility to help correct unjust situations. So how do we share that perspective, you know, in our nonviolent activism? Certainly an aspect of that.
Speaker 4:Well, what comes to my mind, Jim, is the early development in my life when I was struggling with what my place was in this world. I had been criminalized from a young age. I had found myself incarcerated at a young age. I had internalized my sense of being rejected. And I was on the outs from society.
Speaker 4:And I even started hating society. But at some point after multiple experiences of incarceration, I got to a place where I started hearing these old folks say to me in my mind, you're destroying your community. Now, at the time, I didn't feel like I was a part of the community but that word community kept dogging me. What does it mean to be a part of the community? What is this thing that they're pointing to that means so much to them that I feel so disconnected from?
Speaker 4:I had to make a decision. Either I was going to be a part of or I was not going to be a part of. And the the the answer was fairly easy for me. I I did not like the results I was getting at the time. I didn't want to continue to get those results.
Speaker 4:But I still had concerns about what I'd be embracing if I accepted community. And that's when I learned that you didn't have to necessarily accept everything. You could be a change agent. You could determine that you wanted to address the problems of your society. Right?
Speaker 4:Mhmm. And and that's what I chose to do rather than just simply, you know, submerge my identity, the parts of me that weren't in complicit in compliance Mhmm. With the larger expectations of of me in this world. I dealt with a great deal of anime. Mhmm.
Speaker 4:Anime. Anime is the word I wanna use. This internal discord. Mhmm. And there were ways that I could resolve it without necessarily causing myself more harm.
Speaker 4:I don't know if that necessarily answered the question, but I that's
Speaker 1:Yeah. And and bringing up community, you remind me of principle too, beloved community. Beloved community is the framework for the future. So that's what we're, you know, our goal, what we're working toward and realizing the presence of it around us as we go.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, just quick side note thinking about violence again. There were times that I carried for firearms in this community. Not this community, but the larger idea of community.
Speaker 4:I stood in front of homes that I didn't own. I brandished weapons. I scared people. I shot that gun wantonly at persons that I deemed my enemy. Sometimes it was fictitious in my mind.
Speaker 4:I was just sometimes paranoid. And and at some point when I got a chance to reflect on that and I thought about the who worked hard to own that home. How dare I? How dare I cause such suffering and pain to someone else? And for what basis?
Speaker 4:I had to look at what was underlying my choices and and what I concluded was I was wrong. Mhmm. And and the and the onus was on me to change. In this instance, the world didn't need to change. I needed to change.
Speaker 4:Mhmm. If I was gonna have better outcomes in this world.
Speaker 1:Okay. Two more. I'm gonna read them both to you. Okay? Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Universally, people have an aversion to sporting causes that are based on simple personality conflicts. Naturally, people have the capacity to go beyond a good guy, bad guy perspective of a social problem. So that's an interesting question. Do we have that, you know, natural tendency that we see that is not that simple simplistic? And then number 10, focusing anger and indivisible on personalities is not only violent but produces more apathy, that enemy maybe you're talking about, about the real problems and conditions.
Speaker 4:I I think in both of those instances, I know our time's coming to an end. I'm thinking about how important it is for us to really engage with the information that's available to us in this world. We've given you today a discourse on nonviolence. What are what are your principles? What are you standing on in this world?
Speaker 4:How do you approach the life that you're leading? Do you have a philosophy for your life? And if so, work that out. Begin to struggle with that. I think the Bible says that we must all work out our faith in fear and trepidation.
Speaker 4:And so for me today, I would be I I feel much more at one with myself and at one with the world as I strive towards becoming this better version of me and a better version of us. Out, Jim.
Speaker 1:Thank you, Rob. Well, take it home with take my story again. And I love this song because or the idea behind it anyway because it, am I coming through okay? I'm off the mic. Hang on just a sec.
Speaker 1:Because part of what the Moral Mondays movement has done is to try to really highlight and, put, put the spotlight on the stories of impacted people. So bad laws, the effects they have. So that's kinda what this song meant to be about. Take my story and tell it to the congress. Gonna make them see what they're doing to me.
Speaker 1:Making minimum wage ain't making a living. It's time to raise it up. Yeah. Raise it up. Got two jobs and can't pay the rent.
Speaker 1:Can't afford insurance. Can't save a cent, I can't save a cent, go take a tour, mister politician, through my neighborhood, come to my neighborhood, See, if you can truly tell me, you serve the common good. Serve the common good. You say you're gonna take my children, take my kids from me, Not till my body's cold and dead and my spirit flies free. Souls are flying free.
Speaker 1:Go take my story and tell it to the congress. Gonna make them see
Speaker 2:what's it doing to me.
Speaker 1:What's it doing to me?