Deane Ilukowicz, CPO at TPI Composites

Show Notes

Steady in the Storm: TPI’s CPO on Leading HR Through Chapter 11 with Transparency and Trust

Summary

When your company files Chapter 11, HR becomes the steady hand the business needs.

Deane Ilukowicz, Chief People Officer at TPI Composites—the world’s largest industrial manufacturer of wind turbine blades—shares how she’s guided a nearly 10,000-person, global workforce through restructuring with clarity and care.

From saying “I don’t know” the right way to co-owning tough conversations with leaders, Deane breaks down the practices that build trust under intense uncertainty. She explains why protecting your HR team’s emotional health is non-negotiable, how resilience and psychological safety actually show up day to day, and why “policies as guardrails” beats rigid rulebooks.

Deane also offers a simple, repeatable framework for continuous performance feedback and closes with a charge to every HR pro: be a business leader first.

Expect concrete guidance on communicating when you can’t share everything, keeping operations running while showing empathy, and earning—then keeping—your strategic seat at the table.

Timestamps

[00:45] – Guest intro: TPI’s footprint, scale, and manufacturing context

[02:15] – Chapter 11 realities for HR and leading with transparent context

[04:27] – Protecting the HR team: humane reductions and co-delivering hard news

[05:41] – Resilience and psychological safety: giving HR safe space to process

[08:21] – Truthful performance: using PIPs well to drive clarity and engagement

[11:48] – Continuous feedback in practice: the “one thing” framework

[15:21] – Presence, empathy, and grace; policies as guardrails while staying flexible

[21:02] – Business-first HR: understand how the company makes money to keep your seat

Takeaways

- Lead with transparent context—state what you know, what you don’t, and when you’ll update.

- Protect your HR team’s well-being; co-own difficult conversations with leaders and allow space to decompress.

- Build resilience and psychological safety by normalizing pauses, resets, and candid check-ins.

- Make feedback continuous: one thing that went well, one to improve, and one to do differently.

- Use PIPs as development tools grounded in clear expectations, not as a step toward termination.

- Earn strategic influence by mastering your business model, value drivers, and risks.

Sponsor

AllVoices brings all your employee relations work together in one place. No more jumping between spreadsheets, emails, and legacy systems just one place to document and manage reports, cases, investigations, and performance conversations. It helps you run a more consistent process, takes busywork off your plate with AI, and makes it easier to spot trends early, so you can work proactively, not just put out fires.

See a demo at ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.allvoices.co/

What is HR Voices?

HR Voices is a scenario-based podcast for People Leaders who’ve actually had to make the call.

Each episode brings experienced HR and People leaders into realistic, anonymized workplace scenarios—the kind you recognize immediately. Performance issues. Messy conflicts. Investigations that don’t fit neatly into a policy box. Instead of talking about their own companies, guests react to outside cases and walk through how they’d think it through in real time.

There are no right answers here. What you’ll hear is judgment: how seasoned leaders balance risk, fairness, legal reality, and humanity when the stakes are high and the path isn’t obvious.

HR Voices is for HR, People Ops, legal, and leaders who want to hear how other smart humans actually handle employee relations—without confidentiality breaches, hypotheticals that feel fake, or a lecture on “best practices.”

Rebecca Taylor (00:01)
Hello and welcome to HR Voices. I'm your host Rebecca Taylor and I'm here with Deane Ilukowicz the Chief People Officer at TPI Composites. Welcome Deane, thank you for being here.

Deane Ilukowicz (00:10)
Thank you for having me.

Rebecca Taylor (00:12)
I'm so excited to have this conversation with you, because I know we were just talking about, know that whatever you may be listening to this episode, we're actually recording this the day after the Super Bowl. So we were just talking about lots of events that we've had kind of going on in the fun arena. So I'm excited to kind of dive into this conversation here, because I feel like the energy is really good. So can we start with a broad kind of opening question? Can you tell us about your role? And can you tell us about TPI Composites?

Deane Ilukowicz (00:21)
Ha

Great.

Sure. My name is Deidya Luquis, as she said, and I'm the Chief People Officer here at TPI Composites. TPI Composites is the largest industrial manufacturer of ⁓ wind turbine blades in the world. So we are headquartered here in Scottsdale, Arizona, which as we were talking about is, I'm sorry, very sunny and warm right now compared to other parts of the United States and the world. And we did just host the Waste Management Open and have in the past hosted the Super Bowl. But TPI was founded in the late 60s.

And we have currently operations in the US, Mexico, India, and have had operations in Turkey, China, and other locations. And in addition to that, we host a number of associates in the EU. One of the unique things about TPI and where I felt really strongly about making time for this today is since I joined TPI 10 years ago, the story was very much about growth. And more recently in 2025, TPI did file chapter 11 bankruptcy. So having the...

wherewithal and the knowledge that you have going into that sort of process teaches you a lot more about what you don't know in these times and conditions. And I think that some of your listeners might be interested in how you lead in more challenging times than in times where everything is kind of just compounding on the growth side.

Rebecca Taylor (01:44)
Yeah.

yeah, I would love to talk about that. And thank you for offering that information. Cause I think that there's, there's been a general theme of, you know, just it being a tough time to be in HR, just there's a lot going on. There's a lot to balance. ⁓ so can you talk a little bit about more, you know, leading through challenges and what are some things that either frameworks you've leaned on or philosophies? Like what's your secret?

Deane Ilukowicz (02:15)
My secret sauce. Yeah, I mean, I think it's a little different with the HR sponsorship area. So from an HR sponsorship area, you know, you really need to recognize that there's a lot of uncertainty. There's a lot of uncertainty in the business right now, but there's also uncertainty in every direction that you're looking, whether it's economic uncertainty or political unrest or whichever direction you're hearing, you're getting bombarded with information at the speed of light these days. And it's really hard to navigate and kind of calm your brain and focus on one thing at a time.

Rebecca Taylor (02:17)
Your secret to success.

Deane Ilukowicz (02:44)
And when you are in Chapter 11 process, you know, I think the organization looks to the HR organization as if we know more than anybody else about what's going on. And yes, there's times when as the Chief People Officer, I do have information that I may or may not be able to share. But at the end of the day, I do think there's some strategies and it is an HR professional, Rebecca, that you can lean on. And I have a couple of bullet points that I want to put exclamation points on for your HR community. And the one, the first one is probably transparency.

Rebecca Taylor (02:52)
You

Yeah, yeah, I'd love that.

Deane Ilukowicz (03:12)
⁓ and giving context around transparency. I think it's really important as an HR person to be able to say the words, you know, I really don't know, but when I do know, and if I learn something, I'm happy to share that with you. When you go through these processes, there's honestly more that you don't know than what you do know. And sometimes the information that you know needs to be publicly disclosed, right, before you can share it internally.

But I do think that the broader organization tends to look to HR as you know what's going on and having the wherewithal as an HR professional. ⁓ I'd rather my team and myself say, look, I really don't know, but when I do know, I'll share what I can with you, because I think that builds trust ⁓ in an organization. ⁓ The other thing I would say as an HR leader is you really need to advocate for your HR team, because they carry a lot of weight.

Rebecca Taylor (03:37)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Deane Ilukowicz (04:04)
during these events, know, for anyone out there who's done site closures or redundancies or, you know, exiting markets or divestitures, there's a lot of weight that the HR organization carries on their shoulders around impact to people. And that is not an easy thing. It's not an easy thing to be involved in the conversations. It's not an easy thing to coach leaders on how to have the conversations.

Rebecca Taylor (04:06)
Yeah.

Deane Ilukowicz (04:27)
You know, I've worked in markets where you got sent to HR's office. That's not the way I let things happen here, right? The leader and an HR professional sit down with the individual to understand and have that dialogue thoughtfully around impact. So, but as an HR leader, advocating for your team and giving them some space to navigate those emotions, I think is really important. ⁓ You know, I've got two more and then stop me. ⁓ You know, one of the...

Rebecca Taylor (04:32)
you.

Yeah.

no, go for it.

Deane Ilukowicz (04:52)
One of the other ones is resiliency, right? I will tell you, I've been talking about resiliency for a couple of years now. ⁓ And while I wave my resiliency flag from a cultural perspective, you you need a lot of grit and you need a lot of organizational resiliency to manage through these times and processes. And you need to be able to adapt and you need to understand that what's right today is wrong tomorrow. ⁓

The path that you think you're on today might be different tomorrow. And that's okay, because at the end of the day, you're driving towards what's best for the business, for the associates, for the shareholders. And you have so many interested parties and stakeholders, you're trying to thread that needle on what works best for everyone. But developing the resiliency to bounce back from days that are more hard, right, harder than others, I think is really important. ⁓ And then you hear a lot too, Rebecca, I would say.

Rebecca Taylor (05:27)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Deane Ilukowicz (05:41)
about psychological safety and psychological safety is something that comes up and people go, know, psychological safety. It matters, right? You need to give your team safe space. You need to give them space to come into your office, call you on teams, call you on the phone, take a walk, have a coffee. You know, they need space to emote with you as a trusted leader in the organization because a lot of times the HR team doesn't have.

Right that outlet like where do HR people go to complain right there? There's not a complaint department for the HR organization. Not that we're a bunch of complainers, because we're not, but you talked about, know, sometimes being in HR can be pretty lonely. ⁓ You know, you know what's coming. You know what people are being impacted when you walk through the hallway and HR organizations need to rely on their trusted leaders that they can confide in. They need to rely on each other across regions and Geos where they can have that network.

Rebecca Taylor (06:12)
Yeah. ⁓

Just feedback though.

Yeah.

Deane Ilukowicz (06:35)
of resources. I just think, you know, at the end of the day, what's best for the business is a grounded HR organization that's able to support the business needs and the outcome. ⁓ And again, I just can't reinforce enough that establishing that cross and and credibility with the business during these times of uncertainty really matters.

Rebecca Taylor (06:55)
Yeah, I love that you're saying this, especially the element of psychological safety, when you were first talking about resilience, you always hear people talking about resilience and sometimes it's framed as powering through everything all the time, no matter what. And I think a really important kind of way that you can build resilience in an organization is when it's balanced because it has psychological safety. So resilience doesn't necessarily mean you just keep going and nothing stops you. It means that you can also sort of take a pause and say, OK,

That didn't work. We need to readjust. need to shift. Let's take a step back or let's just slow down for a second and let's readjust and figure out how we need to address whatever it is that we weren't expecting that now needs a different approach. And you can only do that if it's safe enough for somebody to say, what we're doing now isn't working. And I love that kind of balance that you kind of brought to that as a recommendation. ⁓

When you talk about building trust, I want to kind of dig into that because this is sort of a theme that I love to talk about. know, at All Voices, we really kind of believe that everyone should be able to have a voice in their organization. Everyone should be able to give feedback. it doesn't necessarily mean not all feedback is complaining, right? Sometimes it's feedback that's just like, hey, you know, I feel psychologically safe enough to say that this thing could maybe be a little bit better. And I want to kind of see how we could make this better. So how do you have specific strategies or approaches, you know, for building trust within?

within the organization, not even just as HR, just also as Deany, like as a human.

Deane Ilukowicz (08:21)
⁓ Yeah, that's a great point. And I think there's a couple of thoughts I have just off the top of my head around that. I mean, a lot of it is being ⁓ truthful, right? ⁓ I think trust comes from truth, right? And I think at the end of the day, saying what you know, when you know it in the most thoughtful and engaging way possible ⁓ helps develop your brand or your reputation as a trusting person. I think the more truthful honor

⁓ truthful and honorable interactions you have with people, right, the better the outcome is. Even if the message isn't so positive, I think people really just want to know what's going on and how it might impact them. know, years ago I can think about a leader that I worked with in manufacturing and they called him the Pip King, you know, he was always the one who was handing out improvement plans, but he also had the highest engagement. And what was really interesting about that, because this is 15 years ago, right, when some of these correlations weren't as commonplace, right, in NHR communities was

Rebecca Taylor (08:57)
Yeah.

God.

Mm.

Right.

Deane Ilukowicz (09:19)
The reason he had highest engagement is because he had the most honest conversations with his people. And they knew where they stood. They knew what their expectations were. They knew where they were doing a good job. They knew where he expected them to improve. So again, I think just being honest, being transparent. ⁓ Yes, you want to advocate for your people, that's fine. But at the end of the day, if you get to a point where you don't think something's salvageable, frankly, the most graceful thing is to have that hard conversation. And that's where I see leaders trip up more so than not.

Rebecca Taylor (09:24)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Deane Ilukowicz (09:49)
Because they don't want to do that. They don't want to hurt someone's feelings. They don't want to impact families. And I hate, look, I get all that too. And I'm painfully empathetic when it comes to those things. But at the end of the day, sometimes just rip the bandaid off and have that dialogue. The organization and the person are going to be better for it because then they can smoothly transition on to the next.

Rebecca Taylor (09:51)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. I think a really important factor of that is the fact that you've had experience with someone who's used PIPs successfully, right? Because they do have sort of a correlation now where it's like if someone gets a PIP, that usually means it's a formality until they get fired. you know, in some cases it is, in some cases it's when they're not used properly and you have, you know, managers that aren't trained well and that's kind of how they're using it.

all of a sudden, HR never hears about anyone. And then the manager comes in and they say, this person needs to go. And you're like, well, where's the documentation? Where are the conversations? So if you have a leader that's used that documentation successfully and has actually seen people overcome PIPs because expectations were clear and they had the support to kind of get to that next step, that's like chef's kiss that the manager needs to be preserved, right? ⁓ And so I think like the...

Deane Ilukowicz (10:39)
That's right.

Mm-hmm. I agree.

Rebecca Taylor (11:02)
Performance conversations are sometimes some of the hardest conversations to have too, because this isn't me doing a ton of research, it's just me speaking from my years of experience doing this. People tie so much of their identity in work, right? So when you're giving someone feedback on their performance, sometimes they take it as feedback on their personality, because sometimes the feedback is also skewed towards their personality, which is probably a whole other rat hole of a conversation we can go into. ⁓ But I think there's like, with...

the way that tools are built now or the way that we can kind of think about how we manage performance. I do think that there is sort of a chance to kind of have more performance feedback that's based on things that you do so that you can kind of get the feedback on how to do those things better and make it less about personality and therefore make it more productive. But that's my theory. That's my hope for the world.

Deane Ilukowicz (11:48)
I agree,

you know, and I will tell you that many years ago I heard Craig Wartman speak, ⁓ he was from Kellogg out of Chicago at the time, and one of the things he said is you can give feedback all the time, right? And feedback's a gift, right? We hear that term, and maybe it doesn't feel like a gift at the time.

Rebecca Taylor (12:03)
Right.

Deane Ilukowicz (12:05)
But to break that down very simply, what we try to do here is anytime you have something happen, whether it's a presentation or a conversation or a call, rather than waiting for these milestone markers of performance, which frankly are archaic and probably you're gonna start seeing more and more organizations move away from some of these cycles, because people need feedback more often than twice a year, is break it down very simply. What's one thing, one thing, Rebecca, you thought really went well from this podcast? Awesome.

Rebecca Taylor (12:25)
Mm-hmm.

Deane Ilukowicz (12:31)
Great, agreed. Here's one thing I thought really went well, right? And then here's, Rebecca, what's one thing you can improve? And then, Dean, what's one thing you would do different, right? Now, if all those things match up magically, then the conversation's pretty simple. But when there's mismatches around, ooh, you thought it went well and I thought maybe it can be improved, or you thought this didn't need to be different, or I might have thought it did, that opens up the dialogue for a very rich conversation based on a very simple.

Rebecca Taylor (12:38)
you.

Yum.

Deane Ilukowicz (12:56)
two questions, right? So I don't think it needs to be as over-orchestrated as a lot of organizations take it to, ⁓ but you can give feedback very simply and have it be wonderfully effective.

Rebecca Taylor (12:56)
prompt.

Yeah.

Yeah, I agree. And it's baking it into sort of micro habits and behaviors that you can have, like you said, just sort of talking about performance and how it shows up in a work effort that you did, whatever that might look like. So if you're in a sales call, let's give feedback to how someone handled an objection, see how do you think you can get that call to be better? What are things that you wish you said that you didn't? And then taking the next call and implementing that feedback and then making the next thing just a little bit better.

I think when you have performance cycles where you're only getting feedback once every six months or once a year, it turns everything into, I have to change all of these habits and behaviors in one huge grand amount of time. But that's not how life is. That's not actually how you show up day to day. Like if I get a review tomorrow that there's all these things that I have to improve, I'm not going to show up today suddenly improved in those areas, right? Like you have to kind of do it, practice it and have the space and frankly, the psychological safety to.

to mess it up and to keep on improving it and have that sort of dialogue that's there. I really like that example of just, can keep it simple.

Deane Ilukowicz (14:06)
And then if you've ever done that kind

of review and then your associate looks at you and is like, why are you just telling me this now? Because I could have changed that six months ago and now we're six months further behind and I've got this brand now. So we owe it to people as leaders to give them more time.

Rebecca Taylor (14:11)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. And it's baking performance improvement into conversations, but not making it feel like I'm serving you this detention, serve it. It's just like, here's where we can have a little bit of performance improvement. Let's measure that, let's go. It doesn't have to be this whole thing. And if those workflows can be managed in a way where they don't feel as intimidating, and you can actually look back and see, hey, in the last month or two, I have seen measurable improvement here, then that's exciting for people to see.

Deane Ilukowicz (14:30)
That's right.

Rebecca Taylor (14:47)
It's motivating and it drives resilience too, because people can look back and see that they've had wins. And that's another benefit of continuous performance management. It's not just continuous correction. It's continuous wins that people can say, ⁓ this is something good that I did. I'm going to use that to keep doing good things.

Deane Ilukowicz (15:03)
Yep, for sure.

Rebecca Taylor (15:04)
Yeah. So I'm curious about, you you've got a lot going on, it sounds like. I'm sure many, many things that kind of are happening all at the same time. Is there a project that you're working on right now that you're excited about or an initiative that's kind of getting you excited that you're working with your people on?

Deane Ilukowicz (15:21)
Yeah, you know, I think I thought about this question I had a time and I don't know that it's new, but I think it's coming back to center ⁓ on presence, right? ⁓ Presence, empathy and grace are the three words that I thought about when I was thinking about this. ⁓ Presence means something very different today than it might have 10 years ago, right? I mean, even 10 years ago when you're on conference calls and you're one on the call and not in the room, it felt odd, right?

Rebecca Taylor (15:32)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Deane Ilukowicz (15:49)
And then

COVID happened, right? And the world overnight somehow magically figured out how to communicate through a myriad of platforms, right? We use Teams at TPI. And they turned it on just like that. Now I will tell you that living through that was hard, ⁓ but talk about building resiliency and muscle when it comes to how to navigate something unplanned, right? A worldwide pandemic is not really on your agenda for a Wednesday. ⁓

Rebecca Taylor (16:02)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Hopefully you only do it once

too.

Deane Ilukowicz (16:16)
Yeah,

well, H1N1, you know, not quite the same as COVID, but still they're gonna, all these things come in cycles. But that said, you know, being present to me means being present in the conversation, right? I am the worst when it comes to multitasking. I feel like I can do 10 things at once and I may be doing three of them pretty well, maybe five okay, but the other ones are probably like, you're not getting the attention that they really need in the moment. So I've been trying really hard to practice presence.

Rebecca Taylor (16:20)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Deane Ilukowicz (16:44)
And I've been trying to encourage my team to practice presence because when you have due diligence requests and business, you know, partners that need you and associates that are concerned and the world is just moving at a lightning speed around questions that need answers and issues that need addressed and benefit plans that need renewal and merit process that needs to, you know, there's always these things, there's always a lot going on, but really find your moment to focus and be present.

Rebecca Taylor (17:07)
Yeah.

Deane Ilukowicz (17:11)
And when you're present, the classics, seek to understand, seek to listen, don't jump to the judgment, right? It's very easy to do when we're all really busy and we're moving fast. But take that moment to think about how would that make me feel, ⁓ you know, the wonderful story, Blink, right? Take everything you know in life and Blink and make a comment that's leaning towards the empathy gene first, right, before you start judging people. And just be graceful, right? We talk a lot about...

you know policies in HR and compliance in HR and that stricter side of the discipline and the function. But it you know hey look to me there's guardrails on the road stay in the guardrail right you you don't have to be in the left lane or the right lane just don't go flying off the road and we'll probably be okay right you go flying off the road and you don't tell me and then I find out later and then now I've got a bigger issue to solve and you're raising your aiming in a panic right it's not helpful for anyone but but.

Rebecca Taylor (17:52)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Deane Ilukowicz (18:09)
Focus on, right, know, stay in the road, use good judgment, let the policy be your guide. Yes, there's stronger policies here and there because they're legally required. I get all that. But we should not be so bound by the black and white because the world is just not like that. It hasn't been like that for many, many, many, years, let alone today with all the different things that people are being pummeled with from a social perspective. So ⁓ I would say I'm trying to do it better. I'm trying to model that behavior for my teams.

Rebecca Taylor (18:25)
Yes. Yes.

Yeah.

Deane Ilukowicz (18:38)
And I'm trying to impress upon our leaders. Just, you need to be a little patient, right? People aren't trying to drive you crazy. They're just going through what they're going through. And if you've got 10 of them, right, you're getting pummeled with 10 people and you're trying to be the one person that's keeping the finger in the dam and trying to keep the business running. Because by the way, we're still producing product. We're still running a business of almost 10,000 people. So I try to remind my business leaders on my HR team from time to time, hey, look, you we still have 10,000 people working for this company.

Rebecca Taylor (18:43)
Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Deane Ilukowicz (19:07)
We still have customers, we still have products, we still have commitments. All those things matter. But then you've got all this stuff over here that you need to be empathetic and you need to be patient and you need to build resilience and you need to be adaptive and yeah, you need to your performance keys done. so again, it's trying to just take a deep breath, calm your center and just be a little cognizant that the world is a tough place right now. I think goes a long way.

Rebecca Taylor (19:08)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah? Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think it's really, really good advice is just kind of be more present and try to focus on the things that maybe the things that you can control or just, or just listen to, just listen to people and just sort of acknowledge like, Hey, this is an important thing that you're feeling, or this is an important factor of your experience in your life that is, you know, showing up here and that's okay too. Here's some perspective here's, you know, where we can support. Here's where you might, you know,

here's just ways that you can just kind of listen to each other a little bit better. I love that as sort of presence and grace and patience. That was the other word that you said that's really resonating. Cause it has been, it has been a culture of let's move really, really fast a lot for, in a lot of businesses. I come mostly from startups, but I've worked in public companies too. And for years it's been, you know, fast, fast, fast, grow, grow, grow, grow, you know, go crazy. But I think like now, you know, it is sort of a good time to sort of say, okay, where have we had?

a lot of action and not a lot of thinking and a lot of learning. And let's kind of take that as a spot to maybe register or regulate our inputs a little bit better to find the real themes, patterns and trends that we need to act on and address on from a cultural perspective within our organizations versus the noise that might be coming in. And maybe noise does have patterns, but maybe the pattern isn't what everyone thinks it is, right? Maybe it's something else that you need to figure out. Yeah.

Deane Ilukowicz (20:55)
Agreed.

Rebecca Taylor (20:56)
This is great, thank you. Do you have any closing thoughts as we wrap up the rest of this conversation?

Deane Ilukowicz (21:02)
You know, I didn't start in human resources, Rebecca. I started in operations. And you know, I think that's helped me grow from a business perspective. And again, advice is advice. But I think for any HR person at any level in the organization, you need to focus on being a good business person first and a strong HR strategist and practitioner second. Because if you don't understand the business and how it runs and

how it makes money and where it's winning and where it's challenged and all those related business discussions that you want to be at that table for. People talk about HR being at the table. ⁓ Once you are in that spot, you want to keep that spot. But you need to understand the business at its most foundational level in order to be the very best HR practitioner, strategist, partner that you can be. So seek to immerse yourself in those dialogues where you can.

It's just going to make you be a stronger HR professional. And I had no intention to be in HR when I started. I was going to be a plant manager and a GM and an office officer and all that stuff. And I'm very glad I fell into this profession somewhat by accident. It's been rewarding. It's been challenging. It's a function that's going to continue to grow and add strategic value in the future. And I'm just very excited for all your listeners who are hoping to or currently in human resources.

Rebecca Taylor (22:01)
Hahaha

Yeah, that's great. Thank you. Absolute mic drop there. Cause you're right. You know, learn the business and then that's going to help you to kind of have the influence to know even what are the best things that need to be done from an HR perspective too. It's like, you got to know what the goal is to kind of get there. So thank you and thank you everybody for listening. Yeah, this is really fun. Thank you, Deane. And thank you everybody for listening. And I hope everybody has a good rest of your day. Bye.

Deane Ilukowicz (22:37)
For sure. I've enjoyed the dialogue. Thank you.

Yeah,

enjoy your day. Thank you.