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A podcast focused on the Uptown neighborhoods of Inwood, Washington Heights and Harlem. Our neighborhoods have a voice and we want to be heard and felt. We love Uptown.
Each episode will elevate the people here who are making a difference in the life of this community. We’re also committed to “real talk” that seeks solutions that improve the quality of life in our beautiful Uptown neighborhoods.
Deputy Speaker Ayala (00:00)
I'm a social worker at heart, this for me has been like, it's something that is unexplainable. I pinch myself sometimes because I can't believe that little Diana from the projects is a deputy speaker of the city council and who the hell let me in.
Octavio Blanco (00:12)
Yeah.
What's up everybody, it's Octavio Blanco here ⁓ with another episode of Uptown Voices. This is episode 36 and I'm joined by my brother from another mother, Led Black, my co-host. How you doing, Led?
Led Black (01:02)
That's right, yeah.
What's up brother, what's going on? I'm excited about today's guest.
Octavio Blanco (01:07)
We have a good guest today Uptown Voices. You know, I just want to make sure that we all understand we're talking about all of Uptown. We're not talking just Inwood Washington Heights. We're talking about South Bronx. We're talking about Inwood Washington Heights, Harlem from east to west. And today we have Diana Ayala, the New York City Council member and City Council Deputy Speaker for who's representing District 8. It's so great to have you here. How are you doing, Diana?
Deputy Speaker Ayala (01:36)
doing well. Thank
you so much for having me. Really excited to be here today.
Octavio Blanco (01:39)
Yeah, it's a great time to talk. The year is, we can see 2026 on the horizon, the year is coming. And you represented a very historic and very interesting district, full of interesting people. A friend of ours, a friend of the podcast, Aurora Flores, who lives in your district. She wrote to me yesterday and she said,
East Harlem remains a community of seniors and growing families. It's still a place where folks know each other, greet and hug one another in the streets, ask for your family, your health. It's still a community where folks tell each other where the pantries are distributing foods or the farmer's market in the spring and summer. East Harlem remains El Barrio. And you are from El Barrio. I mean, I know you were born in Puerto Rico, but you have a.
really, really interesting story. And I think that ⁓ you personify the grit and determination that New Yorkers have and the perseverance ⁓ to reach the levels where you've been. So Diana, tell us a little bit about yourself and how ⁓ you've evolved into the role where you are today.
Deputy Speaker Ayala (02:59)
Yeah, mean,
purely by accident, to be honest with you. like you said, as you mentioned, I was born in Río Piedras, Puerto Rico. My family is actually from Patillas. And my mom moved this here when I was about five to the Lobe side in Manhattan. ⁓ And we lived there for many, years. When I was a teenager, after I had my son, my first son, was a teenage parent. I moved to the Bronx after having been sheltered.
lived in the Highbridge area for quite a number of years and then up in Sedwick and 195. But as I was going to school, I was introduced to somebody that was working, Fakasita Maria, who happens to have a senior center here in East Harlem. And she said, you know, when I start working there, I want to bring you with me. And she did. so that's, always, so I kind of lived in the Bronx, but I worked in the East Harlem part of the district.
I've had family that has lived here because, you know, obviously, know, El Bafio is like living in the old Lower East Side because the Lower East Side is no longer what we remember it to be. So it felt very familiar to me. It's always felt like home. you know, my children have been educated here. My two youngest were born here in East Harlem.
Led Black (04:01)
Nope.
Deputy Speaker Ayala (04:08)
And I moved here ⁓ in 2009 only because my two younger children, you I wanted to be able to go to school and to make it to report card night and, you know, see the school plays while I was working for my predecessor. And so, you know, it's been a very interesting ride. But my trajectory started kind of way when I was at Bronx Community College, the woman that I mentioned from Casita Maria.
She, know, my professor asked me, what do want to do? And I said, well, I wanted to be a nurse, but I'm scared of blood. Like I get queasy. And he was like, well, that's not a good idea then. And he said, well, what are you good at? And I said, I'm really good with people. I love to talk. I love to listen. I love to problem solve. And he said, well, why don't you take up human services? And so I did.
But the social work field is very broad. So said, well, what population would you like to work with? And he recommended the older adult population because I already had children at home. And he was like, you're going to work with kids and then go home to kids. Try something different. And I fell in love with it.
So I started there, you know, working with ⁓ the older adult population in East Harlem and in the South Bronx. I did some homebound work there as well. And then by accident through that work, met Melissa Mark Viverito who was a newly appointed council member. And a few weeks after, you know, we met, I was in transition and she offered me a position in her, in her, her office. I did not want to, you know, work for her office initially. I was very reluctant to do that because
like many New Yorkers and people that are not politically inclined because we're busy trying to survive, we don't understand politics, right? And so what we see is what we, you know, what we know is what we see on TV. And a lot of that is not good news, right? People are getting indicted, they're getting arrested, they're accused of improprieties. And I was like, I don't know. don't know that I want any part of that. And so I spoke to a couple of people like out auras, the out auras of the community and other folks who said, you know what, you should do this because
you know, this is has an opportunity to open doors for you. ⁓ And so I took a leap of faith and I went in and I said, OK, well, I'm here now. What do do? And ⁓ so we started doing I started doing heading the Constituent Services Division and ⁓ all of the people that walked in, had my issues like those are my issues, right? Somebody was on the verge of homelessness. Somebody had, you know, was suffering from food insecurity, domestic violence, child support issues.
not being able to pay rent ⁓ during the bed bug epidemic, right? Like we were looking for like just for help. We were looking for somebody to like listen, somebody that can refer them, somebody that could hold their hand through whatever they were going through and allow them to be able to see that light at the end of the tunnel. And I was so excited about that because, not because people were going through that, but because I knew that I could be helpful there, because I knew.
all those issues well. I knew those programs inside out. have, you it was a product of public housing, the shelter system. My mother, you know, many times we stood on that pantry line and, you know, went home and prepared that mystery meat that comes in the can. And my mother would stew the crab out of it and it would be delicious. You know, we all remember the pantry cheese and we will melt it and put it in the coffee. So I have.
I have all of those experiences, but then also as I was aging, as I was becoming a young adult, having to secure housing when I was a teenage parent, overcoming a really significant tragedy in my early life when my son's father was murdered while I was pregnant, that was very traumatic. And then the postpartum, right? I could go on and on on and I think people sometimes are like, you couldn't possibly like...
Octavio Blanco (07:26)
You
Led Black (07:45)
my God.
Deputy Speaker Ayala (07:51)
have gone through all of these things and I'm like, oh wow, there's a lot more that I just don't, know, like, because then I don't wanna sound like I'm, you know, dragging it. But, and it's not for pity, but rather to say like, I've been there, I've seen all of these things and they've all impacted me and a lot of us have been impacted by these issues and we've survived it. This is how we do that, right? And I'm gonna help you to get from point A to point B the best that I can so that it gives people hope.
And I did that for a really long time while my children were still small. And then, you know, when Melissa became speaker of the city council, by then my two younger children were old enough that I could, you know, start doing more ⁓ like night meetings and stuff like that, which I really wanted to integrate myself into because I love the community and I understand the issues really well. But it gives it a different lens when you're able to participate and, you know,
the Resident Association meetings and the Precinct Council meetings and the school meetings, because you hear from the people directly, right? You're hearing from a larger cohort of constituents. And so that really was a lot of fun for me. what ended up happening was then Melissa promoted me to Deputy Chief of Staff. And I did a lot of the visibility for her because she was a speaker of the city council, right? She was doing a lot of really important things downtown that benefited our community and could not provide that level of.
of visibility. you know, I got here by accident, but I thank God that I did because, you know, she, I guess through the course of that time, the 12 years, almost 12 years that I was with her, she had always said, you I would love for the next person to succeed me to be a woman, you know, and obviously a woman of color. ⁓ And so we should start thinking of like who that person is. And then two years before she left, said, you know,
I want to have dinner with you. And we went out for dinner and she's like, I want you to, you know, I want you to consider running. And I said, absolutely not. I am not, you know, am not an elected official. I don't look like an elected official. I went to community college. I was a teenage parent. Like I, ⁓ you know, I, I don't know anybody with money.
Led Black (09:47)
Hahaha
Octavio Blanco (09:47)
You
Deputy Speaker Ayala (09:59)
I am a horrible public speaker. get really nervous. She was like, Diana, you can do with it whatever you want to do with it. But the important thing is that you love the community that you come from. And that is pretty evident in your relationships with the people that come to our office. And I think that you will make a really good representative. And so I thought about it for a while.
You know, like many of us, I suffer from imposter syndrome even still today. And I said, what can I do this? Am I able to do this effectively? I don't want my community to lack anything because I'm not able to produce. And I thought about it for a while and I spoke to people that we have lot of really interesting people in this district that have been around for many, many years.
you know, all concurred and they said, no, I think they will be great. You should, you know, go for it. And so I went for it thinking that I would lose. I was for sure. I was like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to give it a hundred percent, but I doubt that anybody's going to vote for me. Um, and it was a very interesting period, but I won. won very slight margin. I was running against the sitting assembly member and I think I won by 123 votes, which tells you that every single vote matters. Every single vote really does matter.
Octavio Blanco (11:20)
Wow. Wow.
Led Black (11:20)
Wow.
Octavio Blanco (11:23)
Every vote counts. Every vote.
Deputy Speaker Ayala (11:24)
Yeah, and it was my first time running, so it
Led Black (11:24)
That's right. That's so true.
Deputy Speaker Ayala (11:27)
was really cool, I've been here, yeah, eight years, and I've been, I ran, was the chair of the Committee on Mental Health of ⁓ Substance Use and ⁓ Addiction and Disabilities, and then I chaired now the General Welfare Committee, and in both cases, ironically enough, I chaired those,
Led Black (11:30)
That's beautiful.
Deputy Speaker Ayala (11:51)
⁓ committees at a time when there were things that were really relevant and really critical happening that kind of tied itself to the work that we were doing. Like when we were doing, when I was on mental health, the Thrive Conversation, right? ⁓
Bill de Blasio's wife Charlene was doing a lot of work around the mental health crisis and trying to figure out how to be helpful. And it was very controversial, but I thank her because I think it had not been for her. She started that conversation. She normalized our ability to talk about mental illness and what it looks like. She gave it a face and I really appreciated that about her. And then as the general welfare chair,
Led Black (12:15)
That's right, yep.
Deputy Speaker Ayala (12:34)
We got hit with a pandemic. We got hit with a ⁓ large number of migrants that migrated here in the last few years and is the largest influx of migrants that we've seen coming into any city at this magnitude. So I've been pretty blessed and I think that I've done a good job. I've worked really hard. I really believe in the work that we do and the people that we service.
And again, I'm a social worker at heart, this for me has been like, it's something that is unexplainable. I pinch myself sometimes because I can't believe that little Diana from the projects is a deputy speaker of the city council and who the hell let me in.
Octavio Blanco (13:17)
Yeah.
Well, know, nobody let you in, you let yourself in, thank goodness. And it's not by mistake, you know, some people might call it divine providence to have somebody with your experience and your ability to relate to your constituents be there and do the work that needs to be done. So, you know, we're really, really impressed by your story and by the work that you do.
Led Black (13:32)
That's right.
That's right.
Octavio Blanco (13:47)
And we do have some, we, that's why we want to invite you here. I want to talk to you a little bit about the, about what's going on and what people can expect in the coming years. But before we get into questions, I want to just say to our audience, please subscribe. You know, this is something that we, that we, it's free. You can subscribe. We're not charging you anything. And that way you won't miss any of the episodes and any of great people who.
who we're bringing on because the fact of the matter is that mainstream media doesn't do a good enough job about addressing our community. And that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to address our community and we're trying to highlight the people like the Deputy Speaker Ayala who are making our community better. So thank you for being here. I'll kick it off ⁓ with the questions ⁓ to talk about immigrants. you were just mentioning the influx of immigrants that we have in this.
in this city and in particular in our communities. ⁓ And immigrants are under attack, right? ⁓ So we want to understand what is there, whether they're documented or undocumented, immigrants are under attack in our communities. And so what are some of the services that might be available to people who are being, who are vulnerable, ⁓ whether they be legal, mental, health?
or otherwise in, not just in El Barrio, but specifically in El Barrio,
Deputy Speaker Ayala (15:12)
Yeah, mean, citywide,
think one of the biggest ways that we can help is to ensure that these folks have access to free legal services to help them better understand what their path to citizenship looks like, whether or not that is viable or not, and allow ⁓ each individual the opportunity to make an informed decision about whether or not they would like to remain here.
I serve as a district that has a high migrant community. that is one of the biggest things that they come to our office for. It's like, do I seek legal assistance? I want to be able to become a citizen. I want to be able to do this correctly. But I want to share very quickly, we had a, in my building actually, I had a neighbor whose son was arrested several years ago.
when I was a staffer and he was picked up for a murder. He was 18 years old. He had come here as his parents were not naturalized citizens. So they brought him here and then they had two other children that were. And he was arrested, ended up that it wasn't even him. He had nothing to do, was nowhere near the site. They didn't know anybody that knew anybody. Like he was an innocent kid walking home, spent a couple of months at Rikers and then ICE picked him up as he was being discharged.
and send him to immigration and they were going to send him back to a country that he didn't know because he had been here his entire life. He was 18 years old. He came here when he was two three. He didn't have any family that he knew ⁓ in Mexico. And it was a very traumatic experience, but that is the experience of many of the migrants here in New York City and the United States.
⁓ many of these folks are just families that are looking for a better life, right? That are running away from persecution or poverty in their own countries. I tell people, nobody will take the, I've heard stories from asylum seekers about things that they've witnessed and the months that it took to get here by foot.
the hunger that they went through, you know, just the trauma of it all, having to leave their family without knowing if they're gonna see them. And nobody does that just for the sake of coming to the United States, right? People do that out of desperation. And I think that we forget that there's a human element here, right? And that these are individuals. And should they come in properly like everybody else? Yes, they can, then they should, right? But that's not always a possibility for everybody. And so...
I think that we need to be a little bit more open-minded and sympathetic and try to figure out strategically. think both parts, right, there should be a bipartisan issue where both parts try to figure out what the best route is for improving the borders and allowing folks better access to citizenship here.
Led Black (18:02)
And Deputy Speaker, first of all, I want to commend you, you know, just from just a few moments just talking, I can see the passion that you have for your work and for the people of East Harlem. And I think the people of East Harlem are very lucky to have you representing them. I'm from Washington Heights all day, but I was actually born in El Barrio. I was born in Metropolitan Hospital, you know what mean? I know, yeah. Yeah. So, you know, it's funny, like people from East Barrio,
Deputy Speaker Ayala (18:23)
Yeah, that's my creepy hospital.
Led Black (18:31)
They're fighters, they're luchadores, you know what mean? I think they got a luchadora in you, you know what mean? But my question is really like, we've stopped happening federally, right? So I think that a few Republicans broke away, you know, in Congress, they're still, the premium skyrocketing is still, but it looks like it's gonna happen anyway. And that's gonna affect the people of uptown. So, you know, what are the plans to kind of help mitigate some of that suffering that these hikes are gonna cause?
Deputy Speaker Ayala (18:58)
The health plan, right?
The health plan hikes you're referring to? Yeah, I mean, you know, it's interesting because a lot of people didn't understand that that was what the government shutdown was all about, right? It's like, you know, people will put in a position where they're like, do you want health care? Do you want food? And we're like, what do you mean? Do you want health care? Do you want food? We need both. Because we know that, you know, the majority of the folks that are going to go without medical care
Led Black (19:03)
Yeah.
Yeah, yep.
That's right.
Octavio Blanco (19:17)
Yeah.
Led Black (19:18)
Right.
Octavio Blanco (19:20)
Yeah.
Deputy Speaker Ayala (19:21)
are probably going to be Black and Brown folks from communities like ours that, you know, don't have the resources. And these are sometimes, most of the time, working individuals that are working poor and cannot afford to come out of pocket to pay these high premiums. And so that has a, is going to have a devastating, you know, impact. I think that, you know, Congress and the Senate, they will, you know, will put in a very, very difficult, you know, position. ⁓ And I don't know what the answer to that is going to be. I thank God that we have
You know, we still were live in a city where we have access to free medical care, you know, or a metropolitan hospital being one of those hospitals, right? Like you can walk in there and you don't have to have insurance. You have a toothache, you you're having a baby, you have a medical emergency, you should always.
you know, feel free to walk in there and they work with you, right? If you got a bill, because people are like, I don't want to go because I'm going to get a bill. They'll work with you to try to figure out if you qualify for any programs and services. And if you don't, then they will give you a scaled down, you know, ⁓ fee that you can pay monthly, right? You can pay it.
pay as much as you can, know, whenever you can. So it's not, you know, these are not individuals that are seeking, you know, free services. We're making it impossible for them to receive them, even when they are citizens, even, you know, for us. know, my children work, I have a child that, you know, ⁓ is working and doesn't have any insurance. His job, you know, he works on the books, he pays taxes, and he has no insurance. It's ridiculous. He has to pay, you know, to enter one of these programs, right, through the Obamacare program.
Led Black (20:52)
Ridiculous.
Octavio Blanco (20:53)
It's ridiculous.
Deputy Speaker Ayala (20:54)
and
be able to access some sort of medical care. And this is a child that, you know, had, he had cancer many years ago. So he has to continuously go and check up. And I put him in my plan, but after he hit 26, I couldn't keep him, right? And so it's, this is a real, this is a real issue that is impacting American citizens every single day.
Octavio Blanco (21:11)
Hey.
Led Black (21:15)
That's right.
Octavio Blanco (21:16)
Yeah, it's a shame and ⁓ those solutions are imperfect and really it's up to our federal government to get it together and make sure that ⁓ like many other places that we value the healthcare that we're giving and make it affordable for the people and God forbid ⁓ free maybe, wouldn't that be great. ⁓
You know, and it's so unpleasant that we're talking about these basic needs, right? Like we're talking about food, we're talking about healthcare, and we're talking about housing. ⁓ In New York City, we're in a housing crisis, and ⁓ you know, I want to hear a little bit more about, you know, what's working, what's not working, ⁓ and ⁓ what are some of the
Deputy Speaker Ayala (21:49)
Isn't it?
Octavio Blanco (22:12)
⁓ plans that are in the future. I know that the ⁓ Community Opportunity to Purchase Act is something that might be ⁓ voted on sometime soon. And I wonder if you could speak a little bit about what that's all about.
Deputy Speaker Ayala (22:26)
Yeah, that actually
we're voting on that tomorrow and it allows ⁓ residents to have first right, know, first dibs ⁓ if they're the line, if a landlord is selling, It allows the community to purchase, which is really not a unique idea.
But it hasn't been mandatory because back in the day you had a lot of organizations, right? We had a lot of what was called pill buildings where the tenants would take over the building and the landlord ended up being a slumlord. ⁓ then those buildings became HDFCs and those residents became homeowners. So that is not a new concept. However, those were very extreme cases because those were cases where the landlord was losing the building, right? This is more for landlords that are looking to sell, right? And so a lot of the times,
You know, we have speculators in our communities that are looking to buy buildings and then they use, you know, pretty ⁓ incredible tactics to ⁓ get rid of the people that live here in illegal ways, right? To have them, they force them basically to self evict if necessary so that they, ⁓ you know, vacate the entire building and then turn those buildings into market rate apartments. And so this is one of those tools that is not gonna generate a whole bunch of
you know, of housing, ⁓ you know, it's not gonna, there aren't that many buildings that would qualify to go through that, but it does offer, ⁓ you know, a very unique opportunity for the community to get some buy-in in terms of whatever real estate is available in their community ⁓ and allow them to stay and to dictate like what those buildings end up looking like. It's been, you know, it's been pretty controversial. Obviously, Rebne, you know, doesn't like that.
I, you know, and I work with REBNY I, you know, I don't, you know, I don't think that they're the devil. I like many people, you know, ⁓ would say, I think that they, you know, represent us, they represent landlords. Landlords deserve to be represented as well within reason. But I think that, you know, right now we're building a lot of affordable housing and people complain that it's not affordable enough. What I say to that is that those apartments are not intended to be affordable for people that need subsidized, ⁓ you know, housing.
Those apartments are meant to be affordable for working individuals that cannot afford to pay market rate. And that in those apartments actually were in an attempt to replace ⁓ units that we lost to the stabilization many years ago. And so, yes, they are not affordable enough, but there are some caveats, right? If you have section eight, you can qualify for one of those apartments and it doesn't matter what your income is. If you have city FEPs,
you can qualify for that. you're in a shelter, there's a carve out for 30 % of the units that allow families that are in the shelter system to be able to come into those units and pay 30 % of their income. So they're not entirely out of reach for regular New Yorkers, but where we do need to do more is in creating more subsidized housing for veterans, for older adults, for families living below the poverty line, because those folks cannot, and that's why,
the City FEPPS program has grown as the second largest subsidy program in the city to date because so many people that are working people cannot afford to pay the rent on their apartments. And so this gives them a little bit of an aid. So I think that we need to make sure that we create more of these programs that we extend and really lobby the federal government to extend and put in more money.
and resources towards Section 8 as well, because this is really acting as a Section 8 voucher and the city has had to kind of figure out where we're gonna come up with the money to pay for this. But it is a necessary ⁓ benefit that we cannot afford not to pay for, because otherwise we're paying for folks to be in shelter, which is three, four, five times more expensive to do. We also need to really hold landlords that are warehousing buildings accountable.
If you look around your own neighborhood, mean, there are hundreds of units that have been sitting there for years, you know, with the building shuttered and there's no accountability. There's no penalty for that and no incentive right now to ensure that those landlords are, you know, keeping the building up to code and bringing those units online. I recommend that last year, I think it was last year, the year before ⁓ Mayor Adams.
was proposing a $10 million ⁓ fund to give to HPD so that if my landlord, let's say I live in a 50 unit building and my landlord has 10 units that are
empty, but she hasn't rented them because they're not there in deplorable conditions and she doesn't have the money because she's a small landlord that they will pay her to fix those units so that she can rent them up. And I'm like, well, that money, right, if we have money to do that, we should have money to work with these landlords that have been warehousing these apartments and have some sort of arrangement where, you know, they're giving back, right, as an exchange, you know, 75 of the units go to the families and shelter or low income New Yorkers that are applying through the Housing Connect, you know, lottery system.
That's how I think that we, you know, we raise the number of vacancies, well, we reduce the vacancy rate, because right now we're like at 1%. So we need more housing ASAP, but people forget that it's not just housing, it's subsidized housing as well. It's very, very critical.
Octavio Blanco (27:51)
Yeah, absolutely. And also, when landlords do renovate, should ⁓ be proving how much money that they've put into their ⁓ renovations. Because I've heard stories ⁓ of tenants who they try to get their rent boosted. And ⁓ the landlord turns out
you know, didn't provide any evidence of just how much they put in there. So yeah, I agree that there's so much that needs to be done there.
Deputy Speaker Ayala (28:21)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Led Black (28:24)
And
Deputy Speaker, like kind of segueing on that, like, you know, homelessness and drug abuse, those issues kind of often intersect. And, you know, I live in the low 180s and Octavio lives like a block away, right? So I'm in the zone where Armpoint is, right? And, you know, I've lived in his neighborhood my whole life. You know what mean? I've had stints all the way, but I grew up during the crack era, right? I seen it all. But to be honest, and I think harm reduction overall, the way it's been implemented,
has been just to cause further blight in our communities. I feel like, and I found out from the councilwoman Carmen de la Rosa, that this was enacted on the last day of de Blasio's term at midnight. So to me, if harm reduction was about fixing the obvious heroin problem we have, it would be everywhere. But it feels like it's only in El Barrio and it's only in Washington Heights.
And like I said, I've seen the, you know, okay, I'll give you an example. So I grew up on, so up here, right, is the dividing line, right? So if you live east of Broadway is poor, more Dominican, more of color, west of Broadway is more affluent, more money, right? So when I was like, I lived on Wadsworth on the hood side, right? And I used to be able to look across to the good side, right? And now I live on the good side, right? But now I see how I live on that corridor.
So, Unpoint has created a heroin corridor where now we just have bands of homeless addicts, know, pooing on the, defecating in the street, just making everything worse, sleeping, things I've never seen. I wanted to hear your thoughts on it because I don't believe that the harm reduction, the way it's been implemented has been to benefit us. And I also feel in certain ways it's like a Trojan horse, right? So, my mother has lived in the same apartment since 79. She's paid 600 some odd dollars. I think it's about
making the life worse for a lot of people here and pushing us out. And I wanna know your thoughts on that.
Deputy Speaker Ayala (30:22)
Listen,
my thoughts are all over the place on this one, right? I have family members that have, you know, that suffer from substance use disorder, mental, serious mental illness. I lost, you know, several family members to the AIDS epidemic, including children that were born out of those relationships that died very, very young.
As a result of that I drew last year. I lost my brother my younger brother to a heroin overdose He had serious mental health, you know issues as well and I and I represent a district where obviously, you know You got you guys I think Washington Heights East Harlem in the South Bronx are pretty comparable in terms of numbers of You know, we we split time right between which one of us has the highest number of overdose related deaths
⁓ it's not it hasn't been an easy, you know, few years, ⁓ the intention behind so there's two things that are happening right and once you have you have a growth, in the ⁓ Drug the evolution of drug addiction, right? We had synthetic marijuana that was like out there and people were like just going crazy and you know They were naked down down the street beating people up
And then we were able to get some legislation to pretty much eradicate it. We didn't get rid of K2. I don't want to say that we got rid of K2 because you can still probably find it in whatever, but you're not finding it in the quantities that you did. However, while that was happening, there was also a growing amount of fentanyl that was coming into our communities. And we didn't know it because we didn't know what the hell fentanyl was.
Led Black (31:48)
Right.
Deputy Speaker Ayala (31:56)
Fentanyl is a really powerful drug that's used to sedate horses. And they're mixing this product with heroin and cocaine. Even in marijuana, in some cases, people are making pills and they're, you know, lacing the pills with that. And so we had so many folks in our community die as a result of this growing crisis.
Led Black (32:09)
and cocaine every day,
Octavio Blanco (32:11)
Yeah.
Deputy Speaker Ayala (32:20)
but it was happening at the same time that the pandemic was happening. And there were just so many different things that were, you know, in the universe of drug addiction and mental health and just, you know, ⁓ health in general. And so I saw in my district that this was happening. And so I was working with the administration. I'll tell you, On Point was the only organization that actually came out. you know, at that time we were just focusing primarily on like the syringe litter. There were syringes everywhere in my public playgrounds.
in my utility, ⁓ in the corners, like it was, I mean, everywhere, everywhere. And what I found was that these organizations, which I do believe save lives, I do not believe, I think that the problem that you're seeing, that I'm seeing, and that my community seeing is the over saturation of those programs and services, because we do need them. We do need them. We don't need all of them on the same block or in the same neighborhood, right? They need to have a fair distribution.
process. That's the problem because if you had, you know, if you had 10 restaurants there, you know, you're coming, you're seeing people coming to eat. You have ballerinas, you know, classes there. You're going to see all these ballerinas coming and going. But if you only have, if you continue to just over-saturate with substance, you know, use disorder or harm reduction programs, and you're going to see people that, you know, that need help coming and going. And then what happens is that unfortunately,
Led Black (33:16)
Yeah.
Octavio Blanco (33:18)
Yeah.
Deputy Speaker Ayala (33:41)
the drug addicts, right, they know that they have a very vulnerable population there. And so now they take up stake in that community as well, because they want to make clients out of these folks that are struggling. And that's so it's a very, it's a very difficult issue to tackle because it requires a multi agency effort.
On 125th Street, what we did, and it has been working, it is significantly better than when I started working it in 2014. We were able to create a community-based group that was made up of sanitation, DOT, the Department of Homeless Services, the Homeless Outreach Unit, mental health providers, the Department of Health, the harm reduction groups that were in the area.
And we were able to kind of figure out what were the issues that we were seeing. And then we listed those and then we created an action item on things that we could do in the immediate and things that we could do a little bit further down. After we finished all of that, the reduction of the population went down by like 80%. However, there was still a 20 % that was out there. That becomes a policing issue. If the police are not policing the drugs that are coming into our community, you're gonna continue to see that.
But the police was redirected towards gun arrests because we were in the middle of the pandemic and gun rate know, crime went up through the roof. So our narcotics division was out there collecting guns. They were not, you know, paying attention to the drugs and they allowed that industry to grow. So it's very, very complicated. But what I will say is that On Point was the only organization throughout that that really helped
⁓ me and at least in my experience in my community to come out to speak to folks to try to get them into treatment to help us pick up the needles to make sure that those corridors stayed clean at all times whenever we called them they came out there and I had to fight hard to get them some funding to do that because I couldn't believe that they were giving them money to get the needles away but they never the state never created a plan to ensure that that syringe was properly disposed of they assumed
Led Black (35:44)
you
Deputy Speaker Ayala (35:46)
that people would bring it in and then they could get a clean one. And that's why it was called needle exchange, but that's not the way that it works. And we cannot afford not to give out clean needles because then that leads to a higher rate of HIV infections, hepatitis C infections. So the program that you're referring to now is the ⁓ safe injection ⁓ component of the work that they already do.
So, Point has already been in my district for a long time. They're not new here. But what they didn't provide was that service, officially. Everybody knows that in all harm reduction spaces, people go in and they usually go into the bathroom and they get high. And, you know, the staff is paying attention to make sure that nobody overdoses. It was happening in the McDonald's bathrooms. It was happening, you know, in the corner. And so this program, which is very controversial,
Led Black (36:14)
Mm.
Deputy Speaker Ayala (36:35)
because people assume that we are enabling drug use. We're not. What we're saying is, listen, we know that people are getting high in high quantities here. We know that because of the needles, know because we're seeing it. And so let's offer them a space where they could come inside and do it safely if they're gonna do it anyway. But while we have them in here, we know one, that they're not overdosing, two, they're not using dirty needles, so they're not getting anything else.
Led Black (36:43)
it.
you
Deputy Speaker Ayala (36:56)
And three, we can connect them to those services. So it's not more enabling, it's meeting people where they are. And the reason that you have it in Washington Heights and I have it here is because we happen to have a higher number of individuals that are using in these spaces. And so that's where those services go. And there is a very, I think you touched on it a little bit earlier, that there's a very direct correlation between drug use, mental illness, and poverty, right? Those things are all connected.
And we have all of those. So it is a work in progress. And I really do appreciate that that service is there. I think that the reason that de Blasio did it, the way that he did it was because people were gonna say, hell no, we don't want that. But we know and we've learned since then that we've saved thousands and thousands of families ⁓ of individuals from overdose deaths as a result of the programs. And they're not ideal. I wouldn't have in my mind have imagined that we would need to go to
Led Black (37:41)
Yeah.
Deputy Speaker Ayala (37:54)
be in a place where we will have to make these decisions, but that's where we are. And until we start cracking down on the narcotics that are coming into our community, we're gonna continue to see and to depend on these programs.
Led Black (38:05)
But if I may push back, Deputy Speaker, right? ⁓ The fact that it happened at dinner night without community consultation, right? The fact that Blasio did it as he's leaving, as he's walking out, that to me seems nefarious, right? And it also seems nefarious. There's only two in the country, in the country, there's only two safe injection sites in the country. And they're in El Barrio and in Washington Heights. So the only place in my hand where people of have any kind of power, it's put there.
So I agree that it's a problem, when you selectively just put it in our communities, it feels funny. And then another thing is like, it also feels like it's an addict-centric approach instead of the rest of the community, right? Like I see the kids in my community live less of a life, you know, because of the addicts. I see it, right? You know, okay.
Deputy Speaker Ayala (38:50)
I absolutely agree. I agree. agree. Again,
in Patterson playground in the South Bronx part of my district, I had young men injecting on one side of the bench of the fence, and then the kids were playing baseball on the opposite side of the fence. And I was like, this is ridiculous. This is horrible. know, our kids are, you know, seeing things that normalizes behaviors that are not normal.
But I think that that's the point, right? The reason that both Washington Heights and East Harlem have these services is because the provider that was chosen, which was on point, because they do provide good quality care, is the only provider that does both. And so that's how they ended up in Washington Heights as well. And you're right. But what I do appreciate is that, at least in that area that I represent, ⁓ there aren't any more people outside industry shooting up.
Led Black (39:17)
Yes, yes.
Deputy Speaker Ayala (39:44)
Right? You have, you have, we have issues on the block where they, where they exist, but it's not necessarily an on point issue. It's really, again, a drug dealer issue. And there have been also problems with some of the local buildings that are adjacent to that. have always historically had issues. And it's just a coincidence that they're all together and on point kind of gets a little bit more of the blame. But I'm with you. I don't want my kids to see, I don't want my kids to see a dirty, you know, to see somebody injecting.
I don't want my kids to know what that is, what that is, or that that's an option, you know? That's horrible. It's freaking horrible that our kids can tell. My grandson moved to North Carolina and there were fireworks and he was like...
Led Black (40:17)
Yep.
Deputy Speaker Ayala (40:21)
no, that wasn't a gun. I can tell when a gun is shot. That wasn't shooting, those are fireworks. I can tell the difference. How the hell, at seven years old, that little baby is telling us that he can recognize the distinction between a fire. It really is mind blowing. again, the service that has been done to the community is really that the state has done a horrible job of siteing ⁓
And they haven't, they don't do, and neither does the city. They don't do environmental, like localize environmental impact studies to see how much of a specific program we have in that space. Are they good programs? Are they bad programs? What are the pros, the cons? And then determine whether or not we need more. ⁓ What they do is wherever the real estate becomes available, they just plop it there, right? With no regard for the people that live there.
And that's what you're seeing in Washington Heights. That's what we're seeing in South Bronx. And that's what we're seeing here in East Harlem and in the Lower East Side. And there are a couple of other pockets. And there's no coincidence that all of those communities are communities of color, where we have a higher density of poverty. So they need to do better. think creating those type of coalitions in individual communities is also helpful because it keeps us accountable. It keeps the agencies accountable. De Blasio also did try to do that. He tried to create that system modeled after the one that we created in East Harlem.
For a hundred and twenty first three, but I don't think that it ever really took off.
Led Black (41:47)
Thank you.
Octavio Blanco (41:48)
Yeah, thank you. ⁓ I guess my, I would like to piggyback on just, then we'll, and then we'll move on. But just to say that how do we, as, as, as residents who are, who, who are, who are, who care about the wellbeing of addicts, but also care about our communities. How do we make sure that these services get expanded?
into other areas like Chelsea or Hell's Kitchen or Midtown where those are not places where there are no drug users. In fact, I do think a lot of people travel uptown to our communities, you know, from these communities. So how do we make sure that, okay, we've tried it here, we see that it's saving lives, we're for that?
Deputy Speaker Ayala (42:27)
not.
Led Black (42:32)
Yeah, becomes a magnet. Yep.
Octavio Blanco (42:43)
Let's do that, let's expand that. How can we make sure that it's not just, okay, we did it, it's done and it's in these communities and that's it.
Deputy Speaker Ayala (42:44)
Yeah.
Yeah, I think
you you also you have to be vigilant, you know, the community boards play a pretty vital role in this as well. ⁓ Because what I've seen in my district is we have not we haven't opened any new harm reduction programs in my district since I've been in office. Again, I believe in them. I was the chair of the committee that, you know, fought for funding for these type of programs. But we haven't allowed the state because also there's a big distinction. The city doesn't open, ⁓ you know, harm reduction programs. Those are state funded.
programs
and they approve or disapprove. A lot of the groups that I have have been there for over 35 years. You know, they're not going anywhere because they have long-term leases and it's very difficult to open harm reduction programs anywhere. they're not going to try to figure out where else to go. they're there, they're going to keep them there. So I think one of the ways that we have been successful is pushing back to make sure
I've had some like on the West side, they're like, we're getting displaced. So we're going to move to the East side. We're like, absolutely not. You know, we have way too much being on top of not only just the, you know, the harm reduction, um, not the inpatient, but the, um, the walk in clinics, also being, you know, attentive to some other programs that have inpatient programming and have residential programming, because those grow at a larger rate than the
harm reduction programs do and nobody pays attention to it because they look like housing, right? But those, have to get permission through, you know, from the community board. They have to allow the community board to know that they're planning to plant seeds. Yeah, we just had two different groups that came in and I'm like, absolutely not. Listen, again, it breaks my heart because these are my people and I know that they need us.
But we cannot be the only one bearing the brunt of the responsibility because it's a disservice to the community and it's also disservice to them. We had a whole shelter for people with mental health issues, serious mental health issues on 125th Street.
When 125th Street, you couldn't walk out the door, would be, I mean, thousands of people out there. They were living out there, defecating out there, having sexual relations out there, you name it, it was happening. And these people that are already triggered are coming out of their building and this is what they're coming out to. And I'm like, who in their right mind thought that this was the ideal location to put this building? So people are making money out of our tragedies, right? People are making a lot of money for harm reduction programs and for shelters.
Octavio Blanco (45:10)
Mm-hmm.
Deputy Speaker Ayala (45:23)
And they're not doing it in the way that the people that are relying on those services can really benefit from them and live a healthy life away from those vices.
This part.
Octavio Blanco (45:35)
Yeah, yeah.
Well, thank you for addressing those concerns.
Led Black (45:38)
Yeah, thank
you. Thank you.
Octavio Blanco (45:40)
It is hard and also, you know, my condolences to you for losing your brother. think, you know, that's the reality that we live in. And that's a cancer in our society from top to bottom. It doesn't care about socioeconomic status. It's, ⁓ you know, and frankly, it's no longer it's not even a party thing either. A lot of people got addicted because they had, you know, injuries and they were on pain painkillers. And then it it progressed.
rest
into something else. again, know, a really tough
Deputy Speaker Ayala (46:10)
Salute.
Led Black (46:12)
But I had to,
but I, yeah, but it also feels too that when it was us, it was our problem. And then when it's white people, it feels, we have to do harm reduction now. Like, we care now. Like, I hate to that part, that's part of it that kind of rankles too, you know, a bit.
Octavio Blanco (46:19)
Yes. ⁓
Deputy Speaker Ayala (46:24)
Yeah, it's true. It's a truth. It's a truth.
I mean, listen, it is what it is. You're not lying. You know.
Octavio Blanco (46:31)
It's true. ⁓
Led Black (46:34)
Yeah, during the crack era, we were just crack fiends by nature, This is who we are, right? We we just bad people. And now, because there's so many white people falling into addiction, and a lot of white people end up in our neighborhoods from Jersey, from Westchester, and then they become our problem, right? And now we have to take care and pay for them, right? That's one thing that just, it bothers. And again, it doesn't feel like, again, I don't believe that it's just because East Harlem and the Bahio have so much addicts. The Bronx has a bunch of addicts.
Octavio Blanco (46:38)
Yeah.
and
Led Black (47:02)
34th Street, I mean, so there's a lot of addicts everywhere. And it does feel like it's done on purpose. It feels like it's a magnet. you know, like it attracts, like you said before, like I tell all the young dudes in my neighborhood, no, hey, let's sell crack on 180th because we got customers, baby. Let's make money. And that's where it feels, it really does feel like it's an attack on my community.
Man, shout out to Deputy Speaker Diana Ayala. That was a very good interview. I have to say that like, to be honest, she's a breath of fresh air as a politician in a lot of ways. You know, I'm kind of used to like, I know everything and I do this and I do that. And it was much, it was a different thing, right? It was like, hey, I'm here in consultation with my community and I'm taking a lot of different viewpoints. So I think that's refreshing. And I think it's another great conversation, brother. you know, I think we're onto something here, man.
Octavio Blanco (48:41)
You
I agree with that. I think it just shows like, look at her, she's a part of the community who rose not because of political connections or proximity to power or proximity to money, but she rose out of ⁓ her experience. Her experience fit the work that she's trying to do. And she seems to be still to this day, connected in a very...
in a very, very close way to the people of her community. And so I'm just really glad that we were able to bring her on board. But to the audience, it shows you just what can happen when you get involved in the community. I keep harping on this. It's important that we as residents, we as constituents, that we show up to the board meetings, the council meetings, that we show up to vote. You saw how she won her election by 124 votes.
That shows you that even though we may not believe it, every vote does count. And let's not forget that it's easy to talk about federal laws and federal lawmakers and even state lawmakers. And those are important. I'm not trying to say that they're not important, but where the rubber hits the road in our lives is at the local level.
at the very local level. So it's important that we stay connected, that we attend meetings. They're happening around just in your neighborhood. So please, you know, remember about the power that you hold.
Led Black (50:24)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah,
it's democracy or bust, right? So it's democracy or the shit we have now happening with fucking Trump, right? So, you know, it's interesting. I was watching this thing on Instagram, and it was a TED Talk, and, you know, she says when authoritarian regimes stop moving, they tend to set.
Octavio Blanco (50:32)
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Led Black (50:44)
And you know, we're there, we're way further than people think. And that's why democracy is the only antidote, right? And that's why the community board matters. That's people, getting people out to vote, matters. Cause you're either at the table or you're on the menu. And we've been on the menu for far too long, right? So it's like, it's important we have a seat at the table. And again, it isn't perfect, right? It is no system that is. But again, it is important to unite and have our voices heard and to vote.
Like we know what the fuck we're voting for. I think that's the problem. think too many of us were fooled by nonsense and we're in a situation. But again, the only antidote is to keep going, keep voting and voting people that care. if you think you're that person, run too, right? Like it needs to be that kind of thing because what happens is the political system is calcifying and people stay in their seats for too long and they stop caring. And we can't have that look because this is the result of that.
Octavio Blanco (51:16)
Yeah.
Yeah.
And in New York City though, I should say that in New York City, the political system appears to not be calcifying. So in New York City, we live in a interesting little bubble where different things are happening. New voices are being elected, new faces. It is absolutely, absolutely. But how does, but how does that?
Led Black (52:00)
It's a very beginning though, but it's a very beginning. Mom Donnie's a bit, and Schumer needs to fucking go, Jeffree's, there's a lot of house cleaning to go. let's not, you know.
Octavio Blanco (52:13)
how does that happen? It happens by us presenting ourselves to take over so that others who might be having more nefarious, you know, ⁓ ideas don't fill the gap. So look around, see the fact that we are in an interesting part of our history, our political history, where uptown is, you know, gaining some notoriety and power. But let's make sure that those who are ⁓
you know, taking gonna be taking over those who are taking the reins are the folks that we really believe in and not folks who are who have like nefarious ⁓ ideas and are not looking out for our interests and are just looking out for the money, right?
Led Black (52:58)
Yeah, yeah. I I'll give you a quick example, but Chuck Schumer again, because I fucking hate that guy. He was on on he was on some show and, know, and he started saying, you know, he said, Oh, what happened in Bondi Beach was horrible. Right. But then he goes, Go Bills, Go Bills. Like this is a fucking atrocity that happened. And you're talking about Go Bills. Like what I'm saying, Chuck Schumer and the rest of the lot, they're just so out of touch. And again, like I just think they're like
Octavio Blanco (53:14)
What?
Led Black (53:26)
I'm just I'm sorry that I go off on that run every time. I'm just so tired of the whole group. And I blame them all for for the current troubles, right? Because because they didn't stand for nothing. And now look where we're at. Like, just think I keep hammering that home. I don't think people understand where we are right now. You know, Minnesota on Monday, ICE agents were dragging a pregnant woman through the streets and then just putting like, you know, like a tear gas on the crowd.
waving guns. These are guys that are former like January Sixers and former Proud Boys. Like we, these are our brown shirts. This is the Gestapo. Like we need to wake the fuck up.
Octavio Blanco (54:08)
Yeah, and it's, and they're going to be getting an infusion of cash and it's not going to let up. So bring a whistle, have a whistle. Don't get involved physically if you can avoid it, but blow that whistle. Make sure that you're alerting everybody. ⁓ Make sure you're recording, but don't get physically involved yourself. ⁓ You know, this has been another
really, really important discussion and I'm and I'm glad that we are continuing our expansion across uptown.
Now with East Harlem, we wanna make sure that we're also inviting the South Bronx, which is historically our brothers and our cousins uptown. I've heard you, a lot of folks on social are expressing their desire to be part of this conversation. And you're absolutely right, South Bronx, that's part of uptown too. So. ⁓
Led Black (55:09)
Greater uptown,
that's greater uptown.
Octavio Blanco (55:10)
Yeah, greater uptown greater uptown. So what do you say
lead? What do you say? Spread love? you're not ⁓
Led Black (55:15)
No, I'm not ready to say yet. Hold on. I'm not ready to say spread love. No, I'm not ready to say spread love. Hold on. So hold
on. So just to show you again, this may never happen, but as we're speaking, right, I get an alert right on my phone. Right. And again, this is what we live in now. Right. So look at this. One thousand seven hundred seventy six dollar checks for the military. The president is considering bonuses for many service members. And in 1776, right.
Octavio Blanco (55:44)
God.
Led Black (55:45)
You would have saying like this is we have gone to the point of anything this guy wants. Like we live in a shithole country. Right. That's what's happening. This is where we're at now. Like Trump decides it's just so fucking sickening. You know what mean? It's just so I'm just so tired. And I'm and I really you know, so someone did a thing. didn't post it yet, but it was like it was like a guy talking to God on the phone. Right. He's like, yeah.
Octavio Blanco (55:53)
Hahaha
I saw that.
Led Black (56:14)
And he's like,
hey God, you know, be really cool if you did that thing on Christmas. He's like, be really cool if you did that thing. And like, everyone knows what that thing is, right? because we're so, I'm so, like, to be honest, I don't want, I'm not ready to sign off just because that Rob Reiner shit fucking pissed me off so much. And it's funny, like, I didn't realize.
Octavio Blanco (56:18)
⁓
Yeah.
⁓ man.
Led Black (56:39)
Did I even like Rob Reiner so much? You know, I didn't even know I had an attachment to the White House, right? Like, Rob Reiner, he got killed by his son, him and his wife were killed by their son, murdered brutally, right? And then this guy has another, well, he has Trump's Arrangement Syndrome, like, he has no class, and this is the most powerful man he's leading our country. That's what I'm saying, I'm just so upset by that. And it's like,
Only a few people are upset, right? Only people on one side are upset. Like, here's Michael Bay's, well, that's Trump being Trump. And that's how we got to where we got. Like, it's so foul. Like, I just can't believe every day a new thing. And again, I'm so done with Trump. And when that thing happens, I'm gonna celebrate, because that thing can't come soon enough. It cannot come soon enough.
Octavio Blanco (57:21)
I know you said you're gonna,
you're gonna throw the biggest party of all parties, I'll be there. ⁓ But I will say this, let's hang in there. You know, I do know that we, you know, it's it's tough sledding. It's tough sledding. ⁓ Let's mean the country has shown us like, like, you know, country has shown us something about itself that's really upsetting.
Led Black (57:39)
Mm-hmm.
Octavio Blanco (57:52)
Let's try and let the country also now show us something about itself that is redeeming. It might take a while, but let's work towards that. think, look, it's hard, man. I struggle with where we're at. It's not a fun place to be. But ⁓ I hear things like the deputy speaker's history, right?
Led Black (58:02)
Mm.
Octavio Blanco (58:21)
her background, the struggles that she's seen, you know, throughout her life and she continues to persevere. Let's be inspired by that. Let's continue because we're New Yorkers, damn it. And New Yorkers have that grit. We have that determination. We deal with so much BS, but we still
Led Black (58:22)
Mm-hmm.
Octavio Blanco (58:45)
We still love each other, even though, you know, people say New Yorkers are rude. We're not rude. We just talk the truth. And we also, you know, but you, you get lost in New York. You'll have a crowd of New Yorkers trying to tell you the best way and arguing with each other about which is the best way to get to where you're trying to go. You know, so, so, so I just want to say, like, I know that the, that the, that the situation is bleak. Our leadership at the top level of our country is a cancer.
disgusting human who has no care about his about about us as Americans. He just has some something else going on. But
that being the case, we have to maintain our sanity and our hope. And we need to be inspired by the people who we have close to each other. And so ⁓ I do think that people like...
the deputy council, think we can, you know, look, she's dealing with so many, it's a thankless job. New York City is not a place that's ever gonna be perfect, you know, but she's there in the trenches and so are so many other people from nonprofits to the artists, to you and me.
Led Black (59:57)
Mm-hmm. Yup.
And we won the NBA Cup yesterday, so that's a preview for the fucking finals, you know what mean? So that's a good thing. And I'm not even coming in is a good thing. And you're right, New Yorkers, we make it happen and we're gonna see you make it happen. But I do believe this democracy is terminal decline, unfortunately. Yeah.
Octavio Blanco (1:00:09)
Yes, I know.
Led Black (1:00:28)
But still, spread love as the uptown way. See you next episode. Subscribe to the show.
Octavio Blanco (1:00:33)
Subscribe, subscribe. All right, thank you, Led. Thank you very much.
Led Black (1:00:38)
All right, y'all, thank
you.