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Welcome to Dig In, the podcast brought to you by the minds at Dig Insights. We're interviewing some of the most inspiring brand professionals in marketing, innovation, and insights to discover the story behind the story of their most exciting innovations.
Jess Gaedeke (00:00)
Hi everybody, welcome to the Dig In podcast. I am so thrilled to be joined today by a longtime friend of Dig's. I'm joined by Amir Jamil, Associate Director, Analytics, Insights and Capabilities at Barilla. Amir, thank you so much. I've been looking forward to this for some time.
Amir Jamil (00:15)
Thank you, Jess. Glad to be on.
Jess Gaedeke (00:17)
So I'm gonna start with an impromptu question, just throwing one at you.
you could be any superhero, who would you be?
Amir Jamil (00:23)
That's a tough question. There's so many good ones out there, Batman, Superman, but you know what? I'm thinking the Ghostbusters. They worked together as a team. They defeated the evil slime in New York City. And you know what? Their jokes stand the test of time.
Jess Gaedeke (00:38)
Don't they? That's a good one. Yeah. And I love the resurgence of Ghostbusters with this like latest generation. It's kind of cool for our kids to be able to experience Ghostbusters all over again, Yeah. Well,
us a little bit about
Amir Jamil (00:47)
Careful.
Jess Gaedeke (00:48)
background and your role today at Barilla.
Amir Jamil (00:50)
At Barilla, I'm the Associate Director of Analytics, Insights and Capabilities.
I lead insights for both North and South America. And I've been with Barilla for almost five years now. And prior to Barilla, I worked at other CPG
Frost, family-owned packaged meats company,
Leaf Foods, and I was on the supplier side at the NPD group for a couple of years, which is now Circano.
Jess Gaedeke (01:14)
so you've been both on the client side and the dark side is what I like to say for people that have done both, but I'm sure that's certainly, yeah, exactly. Well, I think that's probably part of the reason you're such an empathetic partner to work with.
Amir Jamil (01:18)
I prefer the client side.
Jess Gaedeke (01:27)
let's dig in. As you know, our listeners really do crave inspiration from leaders. And I think one of the best ways to inspire is to tell a story.
have a really rich story about guiding the consumer segmentation strategy at Barilla. So I'd love for you to kind of take us back to the beginning of when that initiative first started. What was the context at the time?
Amir Jamil (01:49)
I joined Barilla in December of 2020, so COVID was at full force. I don't think I've actually physically saw the people on my team, the broader team, key stakeholders until after a couple months in. you know, from joining on teams, you always want to try to get face-to-face meetings all the time and build relationships. So for the segmentation study,
You know, we were long overdue, went through an entire RFP process. We ended up not utilizing the partner we used in the past and brought a new research partner in the company.
was the new guy. was starting a new team, building a fresh, clean slate. so we started the segmentation initiative. We had a kickoff call with a team. You know, we reviewed the high
Level outputs, key questions I'll be answered went through the whole nine yards. And I thought things were going well. then,
some folks on the team, they were asking, you know, legume at the time, you know, was growing double digits. And had still had such a small share, but it was growing. So why do you a pasta segmentation? Why not focus on legume? So I kept getting pushed back on that. It was, it was very difficult. You're trying to build relationships and.
Jess Gaedeke (02:48)
Mm.
Amir Jamil (02:54)
It was difficult at the time, I remember.
Jess Gaedeke (02:57)
mostly
as a new guy, like you said, right? So this is your first kind of foray with them. so, yeah, talk more about what that felt like probably at the time.
Amir Jamil (03:06)
Yeah. So,
remember it kept getting,
on it and I'm hearing if I didn't run a segmentation on legume it wouldn't be actionable. It would be helpful for the,
in the U S and Canada. And, you know, those are the last things you want to hear as an insights lead at an organization.
so
I'm the new guy. I'm trying to build trust with the team. I brought on a new research partner.
I'm trying to build a solid reputation in my new
So
how do I get the segmentation as a big win for me? And what am I going to do about it? Right. So I ended up doing a one-on-one conversations with the team. Let's sit down face to face. Let's talk about
know my bosses were aligned with approach, trying to garner support from the rest of the team.
explained to the team that, you know, our focus should be dry pasta. We need to look at the dry pasta
could still get visibility on legume, but it should not be the sole focus.
if I remember correctly, this took a couple of days
some people were holding out,
was just really sitting down face to face, talking to them and really building trust and ensuring them that we could still get a good read on legume.
and we all aligned to it.
the ironic thing was, I think it was a year or two later, the legume segment tapered off and they were actually experiencing decline. So had I
exorbitant amount of budget on a legume segmentation,
that wouldn't have been effective at all.
Jess Gaedeke (04:20)
Yeah,
sure. Yeah, wasted money for sure.
I'm curious too, because consumer segmentation work, can be such a significant time and financial
lot on the line. How do you measure success for that type of initiative? Like how do you say that was a successful engagement and gave the organization what we wanted and
Amir Jamil (04:41)
Yeah, it was all about the actionability. We're able to size the prize of the different segments in the pasta category. identified a clear focus for each of our sub-brands of which consumer segment to target and what the dollar volume opportunity would be.
segmentation was executed for the US and Canada.
type
workshops that we ran were also implemented in the other regions.
Jess Gaedeke (05:04)
Yeah, and at the beginning of the story you were talking about how you
actually going away from
existing research supplier, right? So you also had that newness in there. How did you build conviction around that decision and that recommendation?
Amir Jamil (05:16)
I
with the past segmentation,
weren't any quantifiable segments to target. So there's no tie-in with the Nielsen data to identify the size of the prize. So basically, bringing in a new partner that can do the information that's very robust in terms of providing a segmentation and specializing in it really helped solve the case.
Jess Gaedeke (05:36)
Yeah, yeah. So what would you say is one of your biggest takeaways from that experience and maybe like a lesson you'd hope other insights leaders could take away from it?
Amir Jamil (05:44)
I think
key thing is to build trust and sit down with the key stakeholders and really talk to them. And on one hand, show empathy, but really build your case with facts and data and explain why this is the right way for the business. And if your objective is focusing on the business and not getting personal
objective, that's the best route to take.
Jess Gaedeke (06:05)
Yeah, yeah. Focus on those outcomes, not the emotion along the way. That's really good advice.
Amir Jamil (06:11)
No,
think as an insights lead, we always need to focus on the consumer, have a laser focus on the consumer and keep them at the center of all the things that we do to drive growth for our brands.
Jess Gaedeke (06:21)
well, you live and breathe that every day. So thanks for sharing that inspiration. So we're going to turn to one of your more passionate points of view or the things that you're really paying attention
of the things that we've talked about is just the importance of Gen Z and keeping track of them. So tell me a little bit about how that plays out and how you approach your work.
Amir Jamil (06:40)
think for lot of insights professionals across different categories, the biggest challenge is to stay relevant with the Gen Z consumer.
And especially in food where you see private label coming out with not just three tier offerings, but multiple tier
not just the good, better, best
really blurring the lines
consumers perceive as high quality and
You want to make sure your brands stay relevant to the consumer with what your product stands for and why
superior to a private label
Jess Gaedeke (07:11)
there anything really surprising that you've learned about Gen Z and their relationship with pasta
Amir Jamil (07:15)
I
looking at Gen
there's so much, lack of a better word, clutter going on
everything
social media and trying to reach out to them that I think you really need a breakthrough in some way that is authentic and meaningful to
And you really need to define what your product stands for for them because maybe the older generations get it.
maybe it was past campaigns, but really redefining what you stand for to that cohort is important.
Jess Gaedeke (07:41)
Yeah, definitely. And I imagine, I think pasta is probably one of those categories that the brand that you buy early in your life, probably you stick with it.
would think that's the dynamic. So super important to grab them now at the forefront of their pasta making journeys.
Amir Jamil (07:55)
Yes, and especially with pasta, a lot of them buy Barilla because their parents bought it and that's what they grew up on. And you want to continue that momentum and continue
impact of the brand for future generations.
Jess Gaedeke (08:07)
Yeah.
it's true for the Gaedeke household. We are very consistent buyers of the Fusilli to be exact. That's what my son has quite often. Yeah, he really is into that.
Amir Jamil (08:10)
Thank
Facility, very nice.
Jess Gaedeke (08:20)
as you approach...
Amir Jamil (08:20)
I'm a big
of Orchiate,
Jess Gaedeke (08:21)
just made a dish last week with that actually with some leeks and bacon and it was really delightful. We make pasta probably more often than I should for the waistline, but hey, you're here for I'm sure.
Amir Jamil (08:32)
Hey, try your protein plus.
Jess Gaedeke (08:35)
yeah, that's Pack it in there, absolutely.
Amir Jamil (08:37)
Keep you satiated
Jess Gaedeke (08:39)
in your role, Amir, with being not just insights but also capabilities, I'm just interested,
Amir Jamil (08:42)
Mm-mm.
Jess Gaedeke (08:44)
new tools and new frameworks are you seeing a lot of value in today?
Amir Jamil (08:48)
AI is definitely a big topic today and we definitely would like to incorporate AI-based tools in our
AI becoming so prevalent now, hopefully we want to drive cost savings and allow us to focus more of our bandwidth on more strategic work.
Jess Gaedeke (09:04)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. So
is that the benefit? that the outcome you're seeking when you figure out where AI should play? that you want to get better insights? You want to do it faster, at least less expensively?
Amir Jamil (09:16)
faster insights and hopefully
some budget.
Jess Gaedeke (09:19)
smart respond, right? Yeah, I think that's what we're hearing from a lot of leaders out there.
What's your hot take on the future of the food industry?
Amir Jamil (09:27)
the biggest thing happening right now is GLP-1.
my team has worked on sharing some of the key insights with the rest of the organization. I mean, it's huge. It's 21 billion sales
And a lot more more consumers are adopting to it as a way
improve their
and
lose weight. we expect to see shifts in groceries.
especially with desserts and sweet and savory snacks, as consumers on GLP-1 will gravitate more to nutrient-dense options
whole foods, fresh produce.
Jess Gaedeke (10:01)
Well, like you said, your protein forward offerings are probably a good fit within that segment.
Amir Jamil (10:06)
for sure.
Jess Gaedeke (10:07)
All right, we're going to turn to the final dig. This is all about you just as an individual out there living your life. So feel free to take off the professional hat if you wish for a moment. What's the last product or service that you bought on impulse?
Amir Jamil (10:17)
The last thing I bought would be concert tickets. I've always loved going to shows. You can only imagine how I felt during
90s Rock Band Oasis is touring. They have a reunion tour. So I'll be seeing them in a couple of weeks at ⁓ Soldier Field.
Jess Gaedeke (10:33)
Nice. Ooh, I Soldier Field. That'll be fun.
going to see Dave Matthews' band next week in Tahoe. yeah, I'm so excited because I was obsessed with him in college some tons of times, but it's been a long time. So I'm like little too excited about that Tuesday night event.
Amir Jamil (10:39)
very nice.
And they really know how to jam. They could just improvise and take a four minute song and turn it into 15 minutes.
Jess Gaedeke (10:52)
Exactly. Exactly.
Exactly. And no show is the same. So I'm really excited.
the category or product or brand that you could rationalize any price point for? You just have to have it in your life.
Amir Jamil (11:06)
are lots of them, especially with the carbonated beverage, Olipop I would pay extra for, I know Slice made a comeback. I first tried them at the Expo West Show this year.
Jess Gaedeke (11:10)
I'm going to.
yeah.
Amir Jamil (11:19)
olive
I learned that from meeting the chefs when I first joined Barilla and
Jess Gaedeke (11:19)
Mm-hmm.
Amir Jamil (11:24)
use it for cooking and even as an appetizer.
Non-food related, I'd say Brooks running shoes. You can't put a price on good shoes. Comfortable and they're a little stylish.
Jess Gaedeke (11:33)
Yeah, definitely. Well, you mentioned the barilla chefs You must get to try some really good food in your line of work.
Amir Jamil (11:42)
have a side-med lunch ⁓ every month, so we get to explore all the
varieties of food with pasta
And we also have learning kitchens where we learn to make pasta and sauce. I actually made sauce for the first time with my bare hands. It's quite exciting.
Jess Gaedeke (11:57)
⁓ very
cool. Very cool. I love it.
have distinct personalities. And so I'm curious, is there a brand that you would like to date and a brand that you would like to marry and they can be the same brand or different?
Amir Jamil (12:10)
technically, you I'm already married, but I mean, you know, looking for a
maybe a little quirky, easygoing, get a of humor and open to new ideas.
So Old Spice comes to mind.
called them one of my dad's brands along with Barbasol shaving cream.
Jess Gaedeke (12:25)
Yeah.
Amir Jamil (12:27)
themselves to a younger audience. And I remember commercials that they used with AI with Drago from Rocky IV. And they just had some very funny and quirky commercials out there.
Jess Gaedeke (12:39)
Yeah, I love that brand too. It's really fun to observe just from a branding and advertising standpoint. My son's 13 and he's already a loyal buyer of Old Spice, know, both the body wash and the deodorant. And I think that's another example of getting them young. He'll probably be a lifeline buyer, I would assume, of that brand. So
what keeps you inspired at work? You can tell that you've got a lot of energy around what you do. I'd love to know why.
Amir Jamil (13:02)
being challenged and doing new things. You know, right now I'm working on a company wide initiative to improve our processes. Can't really divulge on the details now, but you know, maybe a topic for our next podcast, but really, you know, working along cross functional teams and when you get the moment infusing humor in a situation, I mean, you you do, you do something you love and you have fun doing it, right? There's nothing.
Jess Gaedeke (13:26)
Yeah.
Amir Jamil (13:27)
Nothing wrong with that.
Jess Gaedeke (13:27)
That's awesome. Well, hopefully we can all be so lucky to love what we do the way you do. Thank you for being a friend of Dig's and for joining me on the podcast. This was a really great conversation today.
Amir Jamil (13:36)
Thank you, Jess. Appreciate