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Conversations about things that interest me… until they don’t. Because new = shiny ✨
Featuring cool people and unbridled banter.
Dive in. Jump out. Rinse. Repeat.
Erica Alshuler (00:44)
on today's episode, I am joined two beautiful, amazing women, Evanne Riskas Barcenas whose voice you will have heard before, aka Effie Zilch, aka best friend, my life-long friend of almost three decades, mother of two not-so-tiny humans.
a newly minted shiny for the moment recurring co-host and no big deal, a songwriter, musician, performer, in not one but two bands touring around the US, maybe the world, who introduced me to our other wonderful guest, Julia Riley Martin, host of the Dream Your Life Now podcast, mother of three, Inspirer of Many, myself included, in the form of podcasting,
coaching, workshops, and now a coach of coaches with your business, to grow your own coaching business that you run, and we'll hear more about. But most importantly, and why you're here today, and why both of you are here today, is because you made giant scary leaps in your career, in your life, as part of what we will be calling a midlife awakening. So welcome, welcome. Yay, we will
hear from you shortly, I'm so excited to have you on. because this is, we're new to this, I will assure you that it will be bumpy, but everything we talk about, including how to find these wonderful women and how to learn more about them and anything we talk about will be linked and shared. But, midlife awakening, what is this? One day I was having those big feelings of overwhelm where I...
I had motherhood, I had career, I wanted more. I needed a new version of happiness that had more purpose. And I kind of paused and had this big realization that, oh, this is what they call a midlife crisis. Oh shit, I'm in the middle of a midlife crisis. I brought it to this group of amazing women through a networking group called Chief, and we had a guide and smaller groups. And our guide was a coach, a life coach. And she said, no, no.
I call that a midlife awakening. And this rebrand was everything to me in the last two, three years and ultimately what led me to my big life choices. But it's this feeling that a lot of us share maybe approaching or in our 40s where we need to unlearn everything we've learned our whole life about what was important and find some version of ourselves that is in more alignment with who we really are.
on blossoming in new ways, awakening instead of just, maybe you have to break down like a caterpillar in a cocoon before you turn into your butterfly, cheesy references. But with that understanding, and I kind of sprung that phrase on you guys too, I'm curious to know, did you know you were in a midlife crisis slash awakening? Or is this, looking back, are you going, oh yeah, that's what it was? Julia, have you, did you have any sense when you were in it?
Julia (03:53)
Oh, I mean, 100% I don't call it the midlife because for me, midlife is like 50s, 60s. But I definitely call it an awakening. And like when I was in it, in it, I knew something was happening. Like I knew that I wanted to change my life, everything that had been pulling me and all these
Erica Alshuler (04:01)
Okay
Julia (04:16)
kind of like ideas that were swirling around and this like feeling of misalignment it all just came to a head. And it was like, boom, I had to make a decision to do something. Otherwise it was just gonna be too painful and uncomfortable to stay where I was.
Erica Alshuler (04:31)
It's crazy how strong and different it feels from other urges. I was saying to Evanne earlier, I have ADHD. I will end up talking a lot about that. I want to change things all the time. This, like you're describing, came to a head is so different from that rearranging your room vibe.
Julia (04:42)
one.
Yeah, it's this, like, because I think you can deal with like the, oh, the little pull, the tug, this like, I don't actually really like what I do. I'm not like totally fulfilled. There's a point where it just, it builds and builds and builds and builds and builds where, like for me, it was like, I just can't keep living this life, even though everything.
I've manifested all the things around me. It's all like great. And it's the vision board come to life, but it wasn't my soul aligned vision. It was like a vision that, well, it changed, but it was also like, I was looking at the things and I'm like, is this what I really wanted? Or is this what like growing up in Northern California and like the Bay Area, what they told you success was? You know?
Erica Alshuler (05:19)
Your vision board changed.
evanne (05:21)
Well, I...
I think that's the real interesting like there's this conveyor belt, that society and I think that's actually changing now, which I'm really proud of, but I do think there's this conveyor belt of like, these are the things that you do, right? You go to college if you have the opportunity and you get married and you have children and you buy a house and then you do all those things, um, maybe because you're supposed to.
And maybe you find great, and I found great joy in doing all of those things as I should, you know, and then until I
Erica Alshuler (06:03)
Until you didn't.
evanne (06:06)
But then there isn't necessarily this prescription, this conveyor belt of what's after. Like that is not something that's talked about all the time, right? once you have all those things, I never heard lore of what it was like to be a 42 year old woman with,
you know, independent children at home and owning a house for a long time and part of a community for a long time. I didn't hear those conversations. I heard all the pre-conversations, but what's the after conversations? And I think that is when in those moments, you're like, whoa, I, there is no design. The design is in me and I can live up to, you know, what other people want from me.
but I could go a really long time with not knowing what I want for myself. And I think that when those, like, what do I want for myself? What's my legacy? What do I want my children to remember about me? Like, I think that's for me when I started, when those questions started coming up to me, like, who am I, like, without these stages?
Julia (07:13)
100%. Yeah. I also, I talk about this a lot with my coaching clients and I talked about this on the podcast, but it becomes really, it's easy when you have those kind of goalposts, when it's like, okay, graduate from high school, boom, you're working towards it. Graduate from college, get a job, get promoted, meet someone, have kids. And it's like, everything is going, you're checking off the things. And then all of a sudden it's like, wait, I don't...
I don't have the next goal. I don't even know what's next. I don't, I don't, what am I doing? Where am I going? What's new?
evanne (07:46)
Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (07:46)
Yeah, we've been spoon fed certain paths that, well, and especially depending on where you went to school and all that, there were even clearer paths that were still defined or the startup pull that we all experienced by being in NorCal, we all ended up at tech companies. And that feeling of feeling lost maybe precedes this awakening. Like there isn't the obvious next step. I think that's so well put, Evanne and Julia. I wrote a couple of things down while you guys were talking that I'm wondering.
Julia (08:00)
Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (08:14)
I wrote selflessness and purpose, which you guys both said in one way or another. When you're being so selfless as a mother, you can lose figuring out what you like, to me, in this first iteration of this awakening looked like I need more hobbies. You know, like, oh, I should figure out what I enjoy doing when I'm not at work and when I'm not a mom. And that is okay. And that is a path for a lot of people. I think we are all in a position.
of privilege, which we appreciate, where we could be like, maybe my hobby could be my purpose. And I think a lot of people can do that, some easier than others. And I'm curious how this may be evolved from self-reflection, I'm looking in, what do I like, what do I need to, oh, this actually translates to a career shift instead of just a self-exploration exercise.
evanne (09:04)
I was reading something you wrote, Julia, like a couple days ago, you were kind of reintroducing yourself, it felt, to the community and you were like, here's what I'm about. And one of the things that you wrote was like really honoring little Julia.
Erica Alshuler (09:15)
Loved that.
evanne (09:22)
I, it really stuck out for me and I thought about it deeply and I, and I've heard the phrase, you know, but I was thinking about what that meant for you. which was whenever I would hear stories about you as a young girl, like,
Julia always had like a really deep curiosity, like really deep curiosity about the world around her. And then had parents that were so encouraging of those. whenever she was gonna do something, she believed that she all those stories, Julia, of like you working, like creating companies when you were like four, and I just thought.
Erica Alshuler (09:56)
So you have been manifesting your whole life. That's amazing.
evanne (09:58)
Yes, so I do like think it's really important because little Evanne would lie on my back listening to music and being like, Oh, my like, it makes me cry. Like, Oh, my God, what is how can my soul feel like this? Wait a minute, I think I can do that, you know. those little things about
about ourselves. We're so conditioned to like let go of that. But when you're in this search for your hobby, like maybe the biggest clue is to go back and be like, what was it? the unadulterated me, the me that was in awe and wonder of things with without a lot of muck. Like maybe those are the things I really love. Maybe I should know more about that.
Erica Alshuler (10:44)
overthinking.
I love that.
Julia (10:49)
I do too. I'm like whenever Evanne, I have like goosebumps, but it's, it's so true. it's the reconnecting with that inner child. But who is it's like pure soul. What did I love doing before people told me that
I shouldn't be doing that or that doesn't make sense or that's not gonna translate into a career. What were the things that lit me up when I was little? And not that those are gonna be, I think for you, Evanne, it's so clear. But I think they can also become these little breadcrumbs where it's like, oh, I actually really loved making movies, but I also really liked connecting with...
my grandmother's friends and then also this and it doesn't really make sense but then you start moving and it's like all these little dots start to connect and they can paint a picture oh I could be doing something that allows me to do a little bit of all these things or at least tap into those feelings that I had.
evanne (11:48)
Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (11:49)
You're right, I was always envious of people who had a clearer sense of that one thing that drove them, music for you, music for our dear friend Eric, who was already recording when we were in high school in his house. But I think you've nailed something, Julia, which is as a part of this awakening, is piecing those dots together. And well, to your point, Evanne, looking back to your inner child, and you either have this beautiful glowing neon sign that's telling it to you, like you had, that was so moving.
or you're piecing together these dots, which can feel discouraging, can keep you from answering the call to do more or to make a change because what if I run in the wrong direction, what if I fail, or what if this thing is too silly and stupid for me to actually pursue?
How many times did you kind of have this call before you actually answered it?
evanne (12:44)
Well, I mean, I was living a block away from you, Erica, and I remember like the day, I mean, I was trying to chase my dreams right after college and got hit with a real, Ooh, and being a woman in the music industry at that time, maybe still. But I remember putting my guitar in its case.
Erica Alshuler (12:55)
reality of the music industry?
Mm-hmm.
evanne (13:10)
and closing the things and putting it under my bed and calling you and being like, hey, what's that company, Rauxa? And like, you know, like I remember this is, yeah, and that entirely served its purpose in my life. Like entirely served its purpose in my life. And without that, right, I had to go on that path, right?
Erica Alshuler (13:19)
Being like, I'm gonna now go to the corporate world. This is.
Yes.
Julia (13:28)
Yeah, okay, okay.
Erica Alshuler (13:30)
might have been the path you were meant to go on, but.
evanne (13:36)
I didn't have a strong enough inner voice.
Until now, right?
Erica Alshuler (13:39)
Or it was strong and you weren't strong enough to listen to it either way.
Julia (13:42)
or experiences to draw from to help with what you're creating too. I mean, I always talk about this because I think it's so important because I think a lot of people when they're trying to find their purpose, find their purpose and it's like, well, I hate what I do or I don't like where I am. And great, like allow that to 1) help you crystallize what you actually do want.
evanne (13:42)
Listen to it. All right.
Julia (14:06)
If you know what you don't want, that's going to provide the contrast. And then the other piece that I think is so important is that, especially if you're doing something for a while that doesn't feel right or that doesn't feel aligned or fulfilling, when you can kind of figure out what it is that you do like and you start moving towards it, the contrast of...
doing something that makes you feel alive, that makes you feel so excited about life and work and whatever you're doing. you can't experience that without knowing what the other side feels like. So you need both, right? It's this whole duality thing. So I feel like that's something that we always, I try to remind myself of and people, it's like it's all part of it. You have to have the sick days, you have to have the days where you feel like crap. You have to have...
you know, the bad boyfriends and all this stuff to make you appreciate the things that are amazing and incredible because you wouldn't feel so grateful for them if you didn't know what the other side felt like.
evanne (15:11)
Yeah, I mean, it's that age old thing, right? You can't love without knowing loss. like those contrasts are what illuminate the path, right?
Erica Alshuler (15:21)
And what we're looking for is those nuggets to cling to when we're kind of floating or disintegrating into our cocoon in our butterfly larva stage. And so then, okay, you packed up your guitar and you put it away in a very symbolic moment. Just.
evanne (15:36)
Well, I read this, I read, yeah, so dramatic. What a scene. I read this quote today, it was, it's Steinbeck, and it said, it's a hard thing to leave any deeply routine life, even if you hate it.
Erica Alshuler (15:41)
I can see it now.
evanne (15:54)
Like that's a really provocative statement, right? Because that's all safety and comfort and routine is, it is the conveyor belt. And I really do believe that one should acknowledge how brave it is to walk yourself to the edge of that.
Erica Alshuler (15:55)
Ooh, routine is powerful.
It's the conveyor belt you mentioned earlier of some kind.
evanne (16:18)
of that precipice and go. And you can take as many steps as you need, but there will be that one point, like you, Erica, like right now, where you just go. And then to go back to what you were saying earlier, Julia, like in that, you're like, oh my God, I'm alive!
Julia (16:36)
I'm also trying to think of the person who's listening who's like, I don't know what my passion is. I don't know what I want to do. I do know that this isn't it. And I feel for that person because that was me for so long and the word passion triggered me. I would see entrepreneurs like building careers. I couldn't even look because I was like, oh my God, I want to do something but I don't know what I want to do. And that is like they're doing it. They're doing it.
Erica Alshuler (16:50)
Mmm.
Julia (17:04)
I tried a belly button ring business. I tried, I had like all these ideas. I like created these back, like I thought I would like sell backpacks for kids, airplanes. I was like, I need to do something. I don't know what it is. And what that moment was for me is I had my third child, Whit, and I had been feeling these, that tug that we're talking about for so long. Like, this is not, the world isn't seeing the best of you. Like this isn't what you're meant to be doing. Like, what is it?
Erica Alshuler (17:08)
I didn't know that.
Julia (17:33)
And I had Whit and I got a call from Twitter. Again, he was like three weeks old. I was on maternity leave. I'd been working at Twitter for eight and a half years and they called and they said that my role was being made redundant and that basically I was getting let go. And I wasn't even gonna get my full maternity leave. It was just like, I'm like, what? Like I have been so loyal to this company and I've like
forgo so many different opportunities and I haven't jumped and done anything for myself and it was like this mixture of feeling so upset but also like that's it, I'm done. So I decided, I'm like I'm going to manifest a job back at Twitter because I want my full maternity leave and I want some security but I'm doing something and I'm not going to start like a dropshipping business on the side. I'm going to like do something that's like really aligned with me.
Erica Alshuler (18:24)
Oh gosh, I have a failed drop shipping business on the side too, do we all?
Julia (18:27)
You do? It's
Erica Alshuler (18:29)
We'll save some time for the graveyard of our failed businesses. We'll have to do that too. Okay, go.
Julia (18:31)
Yeah. But to answer your question, what that so that happened and I and I did get the job back at Twitter and I did, I was like, I don't know what I want to do. But what I do know is that when I connect with people and talk to people and just kind of keep moving, I, I know that is going to at least give me some inspiration ideas. And so I'm like, I love podcasts, I listen to podcasts, maybe if I started a podcast and talk to a bunch of people who are
evanne (18:32)
Yeah.
Julia (19:01)
like living their purpose and passion, I'll get the inspiration and then that will be kind of like, you know, I'll have a creative outlet, a project, like a body of work I can share with my kids and I'll figure out what I wanna do. the podcast was gonna start, it was gonna be like interviewing people about their purpose and path. And then I had a conversation.
Erica Alshuler (19:20)
like this one example podcast we're doing now, you're going to do a lot of these.
Julia (19:23)
Yeah, kind of like this. And I want to learn about different industries and stuff. And then I was like, not feeling it. Because I'm like, I don't know. And I sat with my husband, Alex. were looking and I have like 5000 of these spirituality manifestation books. I'm like, I just want to manifest. He's like, well, why don't you just talk about that manifesting and spirituality and
evanne (19:35)
Thanks for watching!
Julia (19:46)
creating a life, all the things that have worked for you. that is what started it. And it 100% was that taking that first step to like, I don't know where this podcast is gonna lead. I don't have a monetization plan. this isn't gonna be my business, I don't think, I just wanna do something. And we call that in the manifestation world.
taking inspired action. I was inspired and I took action and then you start to see the momentum build we can talk about the spiritual side or we can talk about other, but I do think it's that one step, that conviction, that decision, I'm actually gonna be committed to figuring this thing out and to doing something.
evanne (20:15)
Thank you.
Erica Alshuler (20:28)
I love that I admittedly have not read or listened to nearly enough of all of your inspiring stuff because I get easily distracted and have other things. for me, the thing I cling to is I call it stepping into the garage because there was an example of...
I really wanted to be able to park our new golf cart, what a wonderful thing we have, to park our golf cart in our garage. And the thought of the undone project of living here for two years and never having cleaned out the garage and made space for all the things we could do in there and organize it was so overwhelming and exhausting to think about and brought up so much shame and doubt. But I took the first step.
because I knew this was important. I opened the garage door and I stepped into it. And when I stepped into it, by taking that leap into like, I'm actually gonna go look at the garage and see what I need to do, I realized we had this bulky item pickup and my husband and I had purged a bunch of stuff and it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it was. And so what's my entry point into anything that feels scary or I don't wanna have a full
Julia (21:25)
Mm-hmm.
Erica Alshuler (21:33)
action plan and breakdown or whatever. I don't have to have it all planned out because I get paralyzed by that. I step into the garage and take that inspired step. So I love that you have a whole, there's a whole process built around that and the meaning of it. But yes,
Julia (21:38)
Yeah
Erica Alshuler (21:47)
Evanne, what was your...
inspired step back into the music world.
evanne (21:52)
Gosh, it actually took a friend to, yeah, to remind me that I, that I had something to say, like musically. And he was pretty relentless about he had moved back from LA. He's, he's my current music partner now. And
Erica Alshuler (21:59)
It often does.
evanne (22:19)
He'd come over and have dinner with Camilo and the kids and I, and he'd say, OK, pull out your guitar. And I hadn't played, and I sucked. And my voice was like warbly. And like, I didn't have my range. Certainly didn't think I had my songs. And he's like, OK, great, great. Let's sing the songs that you used to sing. So we would do that. And then he's like, OK. In one month.
I have, or whatever it was, I have the studio, I have Different Fur booked in San Francisco, which is a good studio. And I'm like, okay. He's like, so bring your songs. I'm like, Steve, I don't have any songs. He's like, bring your songs. Like, I don't have any songs. He's like, you have one month. And then we showed up and I had, I did, I did have songs. I just wasn't. And we got to Different Fur and we did them. I listened to them and they, they were so cute. They're darling. They're not good. They're just darling.
Erica Alshuler (22:52)
Oh, they're there.
I didn't know the story, Evanne, I love this. Oh my gosh, keep going.
evanne (23:10)
Um, and I remember coming home and Bryce was like four or five at the time. And I, she, I put her, I put the headphones on of what I had done during the day. I have this picture of her going like this, you know, and the headphones are on. Yeah, it's totally on Instagram.
Erica Alshuler (23:25)
Evanne's holding a thumbs up.
Julia (23:26)
You can put that on Instagram. that photo. I you're like she approves.
evanne (23:31)
I think with me really internally, that image of me putting music away is that I always knew that there's not an ability for me to be like dabbling in music. It's so all consuming for me. It's either like I'm in or I'm not, sort of like how I work out. I'm either like on this amazing fitness regime or I'm like, yeah, real sloth
Erica Alshuler (23:53)
Or I'm a slug.
evanne (23:57)
It's so much better when we're in. So much better when we're in. But I think so that awakening was the nudge and the encouragement and then that slow build of letting me step back into myself in that way. And then trusting myself believe in it.
Erica Alshuler (23:59)
hyper focus yeah
evanne (24:18)
And that
Erica Alshuler (24:19)
You've probably been having to tell yourself that it wasn't worth believing in to quiet it for a while, unintentionally.
evanne (24:23)
Yeah, like this is not how, yeah, like it's not how, yeah, you basically say that's not who I am anymore. That's not what I do. Even I would love to say that I had enough faith in myself to.
but it was really, it was really like a friend encouraging me and then me being like, oh yeah. And then me being like, oh no, diving back in full, here we go, flood gates have opened.
Erica Alshuler (24:43)
Here I go.
evanne (24:46)
I just also really wanted to say for the listener too, that a lot of times these things can be like life is dandy and rosy when you're fully living your alignment. For me, I still struggle all the time with what I'm doing, right? It I still mentally struggle all the time because what it requires of me physically to do what I do. but what I always come
back to when I get to those places of like, oh, should I be doing that? Like self-doubt is always there. Self-doubt is always there. But learning how to hone those voices in a really constructive way, right? Like, oh, this is a normal struggle. Today I'm tired. Today my pre-menopausal 41 year old woman, like hormone level is not fully capable of...
being 100% joyous about my decisions. I'm scared still, I'm really scared, right? All of those things can still exist as they would in life. Those are part of the, it's part of the journey. But when you are living in alignment for me, it's so much easier to go right back into the positive self-talk. Like I can get there so much more quickly than I could with any other thing, right? And so.
Julia (26:03)
Mm-hmm.
evanne (26:05)
What I'm trying to say is that it's not easy. Nothing is easy if you're really going for it, right? It's hard, it's hard work. It takes grit, determination. It takes resiliency, but all of those qualities, sacrifice, but all of those qualities come, I think, a little bit more easily when it's for doing what you love.
Erica Alshuler (26:16)
Sacrifice. Yeah.
That's a really.
really great perspective and now I'm gonna be very attentive to see if that is true going forward because for me, which I assume it will be and I hope so, I love that and I like the reminder because I think you've both touched on this. We assume that after we take this big scary leap then now it's gonna feel so great that we found that beautiful alignment of where.
we're finally doing it, yeah, I'm gonna wanna stay up every night and work on my podcast, I'm not gonna wanna do any of the bad habits that I'd picked up before and all these things. when that magical moment doesn't kick in of now everything's better, it's really easy to say, oh, maybe this isn't what I thought it was, or maybe this wasn't as important, or this wasn't the right big step for me, because I thought I was gonna wake up feeling totally different. so I think that's a very important reminder.
this side note, unless anyone has one, anything else to say on that specific thing that I wanted to ask you, Julia, was Evanne had a friend and not everyone does. And is that essentially what you do in your coaching business and help people do is be that friend who can bring you into the studio the way Steve did for you, Ev?
Julia (27:41)
You know, I think, well, I'll answer that in a couple of different ways, but I think the decision has to be yours. And I think Evanne was ready and Steve came in at the perfect time. I think if it had been even a few months earlier, it might've been a very different thing. So I think it's like, it's less about the friend and it's more about the timing of it all and you being ready.
evanne (27:54)
Yeah.
Yeah, it's the universe. It is.
Julia (28:10)
It's the universe. I think it's the universe. No one, what I have come to know, and I firmly believe I think one of the questions I get asked a lot is, my husband's really struggling or my friend's really struggling. How do I manifest for them? Or how do I help them get out of it? Or what can I say? Or how do I encourage them? Or what advice can I give them? Because I'm feeling really good about what I'm doing. And I just want to help them. I want to pull them to this side.
And the short answer is you can't. There's nothing you can say or do. You certainly can't manifest for someone else. What you can do is inspire through your own energy and you feeling so confident and so good about your conviction with how life works and finding your passion that they can't help but feel it themselves, but they have to be ready for it.
I mentioned this in my podcast, but I went to go see Abraham Hicks live, which is, they're a spiritual teacher. Very long rabbit hole of you. I would go look at Abraham Hicks because it's incredible, their teachings. But a lot of it is around like, you can only influence through your energy. You can't influence through your words. You can't, like there's no advice you can tell someone to get them somewhere.
But if someone happens to be ready and in that place of like, I want to make a move and then they see you, like in Evanne's I'm sure Steve was like, I love this, I feel it, I believe in it. And Evanne's like absorbing that, right? And she's also ready on her own. So I think that's like the long way of answering what you were asking, like, no, I'm not the friend that's like.
Here, come over here because this is how you do it and blah, and you are ready and I'm no, you're gonna be ready and then my words are gonna hit you exactly when you need it if it's right for you kind of thing.
Erica Alshuler (30:07)
No, it totally does. A thousand percent. And it made me think of, I think, I know both of you have had some form of sales roles. Mine was never called sales, but we all sell in various things in our work. And what you're describing is the only way I could ever articulate why I didn't want to be in sales slash what worked when I ended up actually
Julia (30:06)
That makes sense.
evanne (30:07)
Totally makes sense. Totally makes sense.
Erica Alshuler (30:32)
an idea or anything in my leadership roles was like, if I don't believe it and my energy isn't selling it, then it doesn't matter what I say. Give me all the pitch decks in the world. My energy is going to be what gets it or doesn't. So spend your time convincing, letting me figure out how I connect to it, and then I will do that for someone else and it's exactly what you're describing. I just…
Julia (30:59)
So, that I wanted to mention on the last thing we were talking about is that, when you know that you're...
Erica Alshuler (30:59)
I thought that was in parallel.
Julia (31:07)
world is seeing the best of you and you're doing like something that lights you up, you also become a lot more sensitive because like when we were in corporate, I didn't care, like I'd be selling something at Google and someone would say something like, oh, this is fraud or blah, I'd be like, I don't care. This is not my thing. But if someone says something that's like connected to what I do now, which is my purpose and my passion,
you know, skepticism or even like any kind of insult or I mean, that hurts, right? Because it's like, this is what I want to do. And I'm sure Evanne, like, did you care at all at Google if someone would say something about what you're saying? It's like, no, but what about your music? Your music?
evanne (31:47)
No, I mean, it's so true, Julia, I think too, because they're, again, back to the bravery and the courage, right? Like when you're putting forth into the world something that's deeply personal because you love it and you are, and it's your life energy that's causing it to exist.
it becomes entirely vulnerable. And that's the part that's probably the hardest, glorious is the other side of that, right? When it's going well, it's like, oh my gosh, this is the best. But the shadow side is that you're so sensitive to, you know, it's coming from your guts and from your heart.
Julia (32:19)
Yeah.
evanne (32:31)
And so people's acceptance, approval, all of that matters in a different way. But then you...
Erica Alshuler (32:39)
So how do you build up that resilience or do you?
evanne (32:43)
Ha.
Julia (32:45)
I think it's like anything else, it just gets easier and easier and easier. The first few months of doing anything like living your purpose or doing a new career or something that, you know, starting a bit like, it's so hard in the beginning because it's all new and any comment, anything is going to be like, ah. And then the more that happens, the more and more and more and more. I just think it's like anything else. You do build up resilience.
evanne (32:46)
I...
Julia (33:13)
It doesn't mean that a comment or something doesn't hurt, but it doesn't feel the same as the first time.
Erica Alshuler (33:21)
So you don't try to anticipate and shame yourself first so that no one else can, because that's what I do, and it doesn't work.
Julia (33:26)
No.
evanne (33:30)
like I, okay, so I'm sitting on 15 new songs, right? That I have to release. and I have to think that every song that I do is the, is the best song I've ever done because otherwise I won't give it my full energy. And then only till after and be like, Oh, that's in the C category. But you know, in this process,
I'm like, what does success look like? It looks different to me than the first time I released songs. Like the first batch, I'm like, I want the world to hear me. I want everyone to love my music. It doesn't feel, it doesn't look like that to me this time, right? It looks like, am I, am I saying what I want to say?
and is it sounding how I want it to sound? And am I proud of it? And are the people I love most, will they love it? And it just is a different paradigm. Like, cause you learn, you learn about your purpose, it reveals itself more and more to you along the path, right?
Julia (34:31)
Totally. Yeah, there's a lot of reframes that I use. I'm a big affirmation girly, but like not in the...
Erica Alshuler (34:32)
Absolutely.
I did your Monday morning one this morning with your cuties in their bed.
Julia (34:43)
Oh, you did that? Well, because I think the affirmations also just in general, like, they can be psychologically damaging. If you if you just say like, I am rich, I am successful, and you're not yet. it does something to your brain. And it's not good, right? Because you're you don't believe it. But like, I love affirmations that support where I want to go. So
For me, I trust that everything is working out for my highest and greatest good, and I'll repeat that over and over. I think there's a lot of opportunities to reframe when something happens, or if I'm feeling really uncomfortable, I have reframed it in my mind at this point to know that means I'm growing.
Erica Alshuler (35:08)
Yes.
Julia (35:21)
So when I'm feeling it, I'm like, It actually feels kind of
an exciting uncomfortable. I haven't been here before.
Ooh, this means like I'm going somewhere new. I'm learning something, I'm evolving. I'm experiencing something new. Yay, welcome uncomfortable feeling. I'm getting to a new level.
Erica Alshuler (35:28)
I like that, okay.
Okay, so now that is something that isn't scary, that discomfort is familiar in a, oh, I know that means something new is coming away. That's, okay.
Julia (35:51)
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And if you can turn that uncomfortability and just kind of reframe it in your mind as a little bit more of the exciting, that's exactly what's going to happen. It's like everything we anticipate ends up showing up in our life. So if we anticipate that things are all going to crap and it's like that, you know, and that's kind of like basic manifestation. But like I, I'm always trying to be like, what does this mean? How can I reframe this in a way that feels
Like it's in alignment with where I want to go with like the next level me.
Erica Alshuler (36:23)
sorry, you're giving me a good segue, because I was trying to see how this kind of wraps up.
How are we tied this all together? Obviously, it's enough to hear amazing people talk about their experiences in the scary stuff, and then pursuing and actually taking the leaps that you both have taken. And it continues to be inspiring for me and makes me want to keep going. But why is this so fascinating?
to me right now, to us, obviously to you to build a business around this. I mean, you've been fascinated by it your whole life, but is it just our age? Is it some function of the way society is evolving, being a woman? Is this unique to just women? There's something about this that I just, I'm curious if we just dig into it for a few seconds of why is this so relevant now? Why is it something that comes up in every conversation? I mean, post-COVID,
there were at least three friends who told me they quit their jobs. I mean, within a very small circle, expand that to the world. We've seen the trends. People are finding their own ways, more creative ways to make money than just nine to five jobs. And it's so I'm curious of your thoughts of why we're here now and why this is such a hot topic for everyone.
Julia (37:33)
what I have come to see, at first I was like, oh, it's kind of interesting. It's like,
Is it COVID that kind of gave us this time to reflect and go inward and start thinking about what's next? I think it was a lot more than that and my own perspective is a very spiritual one, but I do think we're kind of entering this time where there is a collective awakening happening and I think it's very much intentioned and you can actually look back on a lot of
people who have made predictions about what's happening. And this is the like there is going to be a major shift and there's going to be an awakening that comes through and we're gonna start remembering where we came from and who we are. And that is gonna cause like chaos and wars and all this stuff, but it's also going.
to allow everyone to go inward and start reconnecting with their soul's purpose. And so I've interviewed a lot of people on my podcast who talk about this, like collective awakening that's happening right now. And it's happening around the world. And there is a spiritual reason for that, which we don't need to get into. But I do think like
We're all experiencing this for a reason.
Erica Alshuler (38:54)
I love that answer. did not know I was gonna get that.
evanne (38:54)
I
when we interpret the world around us, and when we interpret the world around us and what we actually have to face, for me at least, it sort of provokes like action and clarity because
If we're not aligned with ourselves, if we're not putting out the best version of ourselves right now, it's right now. Like, there's not, we have run out of time as a species, I think, to be complacent about a lot of things. And
when you accept that, in that acceptance, you also have to start that it actually has to be within you is that agent of positive change, right? It's in you, it's in us to raise our children, yes. But it's also in us to live, how we live our lives, right? Spiritual health.
Erica Alshuler (39:56)
to take.
to take it almost more literal, I love the spiritual talk, not shutting that down at all. I was having dinner timely with a bunch of old colleagues last night. And I was saying how looking back, I think I needed slash enjoyed the drama that happened at the startup. We had a lot of highs and lows and drama with bosses and.
hiring and products and not getting things done. And if we would complain about it at the time, but I think that kept it interesting for me, albeit stressful. And there was a moment when it, and it was during COVID, whether that was my trigger or just an example that got me there, where I didn't want the drama anymore of there was enough drama in the real world. And in my life as a new mother and home with three kids that
I didn't need to manufacture it anywhere else. And so it feels like another version of what you both are saying, which is that, you know, whichever comes first, the chaos or the awakening, or maybe they happen simultaneously in this world right now, micro and macro, my world and the world.
I don't have room have any place for more, places where I can't have control. Drama. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, thank you.
evanne (41:09)
Drama? Yeah.
Julia (41:14)
I think also, Erica, what you're saying, and this might sound spiritual, but it isn't. There is this also return and rebalancing of feminine masculine energy. Masculine being the way you do things is strategy and plan and to-do lists and corporate. The feminine energy is much more about what purpose and connection and things you can't see.
leading with feeling and intuition and things like that. And I think there's like a shift that's happening and realizing like the hustle and the like, you know, just the plan and the pushing and the, I need to get, that's not working anymore. So let's move into this place that feels a lot better. And there's a balance that you need both for sure. Like, you can't start a podcast without doing the things but you also have to.
Erica Alshuler (42:03)
Yes.
evanne (42:07)
Right.
Julia (42:10)
believe you have to like lead with what feels right and it is all about connection and things like that.
Erica Alshuler (42:16)
I love this and I think it could be its own episode because I'm equally obsessed with the findings, the daily findings that are coming out about the gut itself and like listening to your body and the gut versus the brain and how that ties into intuition and how we make decisions and how we do or don't listen to our body. I am so fascinated by that. And I love that it's coming to the forefront, to your point that the energies are changing.
And obviously we're women. That doesn't mean we naturally align with the feminine energy. I think we happen to in this group here, but gosh, this is so much more comfortable and how I like to operate anyways. So finding those lanes that allow for that. And now there's more lanes open, but finding those lanes that allow for that to be the guiding force is just. That's that's living in alignment. That feels like being more you.
Julia (42:59)
I love you.
evanne (43:05)
Well, I'm so excited because I feel like I just got a lightning bolt. But like right now, if you're actually thinking about like the three of us and what we're doing, right, like we're sharing. we are we are sharing what we know, what we've experienced to take you, Julia, right? Like you, you not only are like, hey, here's how I did it. Let me coach you so you could be a competitor of mine.
Like you're sharing your skill set to enlighten others because there's plenty of room. And the opposite of that, there's the opposite of that is to take and to own. That's that masculine energy. I will overpower. I will carve out my own. This is my own. It's mine. And that system inherently we're out of resources.
Julia (43:39)
Yes.
evanne (43:57)
There's nothing more to own. Like it's the age of sharing. And like, what does that mean? Right? What does that mean? Like I write songs, they're free guys. Like they're like no one pays for music, right? My songs are for free for you to enjoy, right? But like, all of us are doing something to share, to give of ourselves, hopefully make a living, will, not hopefully.
making a living with the intention of making a living to do that. But the principle, the base root principle is to share. That's an interesting thought.
Julia (44:36)
Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (44:37)
And that is a perfect, I know you're out of time, Julia, so I wanna be respectful of your next thing if you had more thoughts, because I was gonna say this idea of sharing is perfect so that we can go share this in the world.
Julia (44:46)
I think it's a perfect, yeah, well, because I think it goes back to also like, we have the spiritual perspective, but there's a lot of people talking right now about this. And that means there's also a lot of people on the other end consuming it. And when you believe something is possible and you are expanded by conversations like this, you can't help but again, absorb it and feel it and maybe start thinking about it for yourself.
Erica Alshuler (45:13)
And that's what got me over the hump to do this was I realized what I thought was this negative energy where I wanted attention or celebrity in some way or an audience in some way. What I actually wanted was the ability to inspire and that wasn't just an excuse. Even if just one person learned about something and thinks about it more and talks about it with someone else and it helps them or anyone in any way. That's what I wanted. That's purpose. That's the hump.
You helped me get there by your conversation. So
I love both of you. Thank you so much. And we will of course, I've got so many notes and amazing things to share from everything you guys talked about, including one of your songs, Plenty of Room in the Sky Oven that I'll have to get right somehow to share. I don't know who I'll ask about that.
evanne (45:57)
What are you, uh, who are you gonna ask?
Erica Alshuler (46:02)
You guys are amazing. Thank you.