Finding Your Voice at Work with Anne Synder

Anne Synder defines "prophetic voice" and challenges all of us to strengthen our own voices so that we can more deeply speak love, truth, and humility in our workplaces.

Show Notes

In this final episode of the season, Anne Synder, editor of Comment Magazine, helps us define what a prophetic voice is, as well as sharing who were prophetic voices in her own life. She also challenges the listener to strengthen our own voices, so that speaking truth, speaking love, and speaking humility could be used by God in our workplaces. 

For a spiritual formation exercise written unique for this episode, click here. 

Learn more about our guest, Anne Snyder at Comment magazine or through her latest book, Breaking Ground: Charting Our Future in a Pandemic Year (published in January 2022) or finally through her podcast, The Whole Person Revolution podcast. Get to know more about The Collaborative at www.collaborativeorlando.com and The Collaborative Orlando YouTube page. 

Meet the team: Nuance is produced by Candid Goat; Co-hosted by Crosland Stuart; and Co-hosted by Case Thorp.

What is Nuance - A Faith and Work Podcast?

Nuance is a podcast of The Collaborative helping Christians to faithfully live out their faith in their work. We recognize most of life is not lived in black and white but rather lived in the gray, lived in the nuance.

You can find more including complementary spiritual exercises at www.collaborativeorlando.com/nuance.

[case_thorp]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: oh

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: yeah

[case_thorp]: yeah in twenty fifteen the michigan legislature
passed a series of bills allowing state funded

[case_thorp]: adoption agencies to employ policies that a
line with their faith even when their faith

[case_thorp]: ran contrary to popular social opinion or
state equality practices effectively christian adoption agencies are

[case_thorp]: now allowed to place children with families
where a marriage is between one man and

[case_thorp]: one woman as you could imagine this
was terribly controversial conservatives pleaded religious freedom while

[case_thorp]: progressives cried about a lack of separation
of church and state stephen monsma a professor

[case_thorp]: at calvin college asks quote as christians
how should we react to legislation such as

[case_thorp]: this is it an unjust exercise and
discrimination or is it a commendable effort not

[case_thorp]: to compel faith based agencies to act
contrary to their it just believes

[crosland_stuart]: m

[case_thorp]: considering these questions requires us to do
some careful thinking about the nature of a

[case_thorp]: diverse free society and how god calls
his followers

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[case_thorp]: to relate to

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[case_thorp]: the society in which he has placed
them close quote we rarely appreciate how our

[case_thorp]: community whether white or black or latino
protestant or catholic southern or northern presbyterian or

[case_thorp]: carismetic we really really appreciate at how
our community and forms are understanding of sharing

[case_thorp]: power space resources decision making in more
we can do better we must do better

[case_thorp]: we need to nurture a better construct
for us to deepen our

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[case_thorp]: understanding of how we can stand at
all on biblical values and comprehend

[crosland_stuart]: re

[case_thorp]: our realities especially the real it in
our work place

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[case_thorp]: making room for the diversity that comes
in a democracy nuance is a podcast

[crosland_stuart]: right

[case_thorp]: of the collaborative where we wrestled together
about life beyond the walls of the church

[case_thorp]: especially at work here we wad into
the way the money waters of the public

[case_thorp]: square itself with special attention given to
the work of our hands cut i'm going

[case_thorp]: to go

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[case_thorp]: back and do that paragraph again zach
what

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[case_thorp]: not money right nuance is a podcast
of the collaborative where we wrestled together about

[case_thorp]: life beyond the walls of the church
and especially at work here we wade into

[case_thorp]: the muddy waters of the public square
itself with special attention given to the work

[case_thorp]: of our hands our careers

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[case_thorp]: our vocations and how it works towards
the common good this season we're exploring what

[case_thorp]: it's meant by the public square particular
are the characteristics of christian citizenship common grace

[case_thorp]: prophetic voice hospitality and today our topic
principled pluralism now a

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[case_thorp]: fancy term for sure but princial pluralism
is it basic idea the idea that all

[case_thorp]: the various people groups within a democracy
have principles upon which their view of the

[case_thorp]: coming good rest for democracy to be
sustainable than the culture government it operates within

[case_thorp]: helps a plurality of principles to be
respected and that plurality my witness is a

[case_thorp]: christ follower at work finds a way
to remain in tact but in god's economy

[case_thorp]: commands me to learn dialogue and find
common calls with others well to explore this

[case_thorp]: i've asked today andy blanchard to come
and share and to share from a different

[case_thorp]: a therapeutic perspective since the lines between
principles and emotions are often indistinguishable andy is

[case_thorp]: a licensed mental health counsellor with almost
twenty years of experience he works with adults

[case_thorp]: in every stage of life specializes in
marriage but i've known andy

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[case_thorp]: long enough to know that his depth
and breadth far exceeds his specialties andy's experience

[case_thorp]: is undergooded by his masters and counseling
from reform theological seminary and orlando most of

[case_thorp]: all and he has a keen insight
into the diversity of

[andy_blanchard]: yes

[case_thorp]: our work places the convictions and emotional
journey

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[case_thorp]: of our hearts and a way forward
to bear witness to christ in a winsome

[case_thorp]: and effective manner my name is case
thorpe and welcome to nuance oh again my

[case_thorp]: name is case thorpe and welcome

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[case_thorp]: to our episode

[crosland_stuart]: ah

[case_thorp]: as always i've got my co anchor
here crossland welcome crossland

[crosland_stuart]: hey

[case_thorp]: and andy thank you for being here
today you are my counselor and you have

[case_thorp]: helped and blessed me so much over
the year so i'm grateful that

[andy_blanchard]: thanks

[case_thorp]: you're here

[andy_blanchard]: for having me on happy to

[crosland_stuart]: well

[andy_blanchard]: join

[crosland_stuart]: ain't

[case_thorp]: crosland take it away

[crosland_stuart]: andy we love to take

[case_thorp]: okay stop stop stop set let's do
all that again

[crosland_stuart]: okay

[case_thorp]: that

[andy_blanchard]: yeah

[case_thorp]: an

[crosland_stuart]: my

[case_thorp]: okay let's start over in the introduction
well again my name is kase thorpe and

[case_thorp]: welcome to today's episode crossland good

[crosland_stuart]: it's

[case_thorp]: to have

[crosland_stuart]: great

[case_thorp]: you

[crosland_stuart]: to be your case

[case_thorp]: and andy welcome so our audience knows
you are my counsellor and i love you

[case_thorp]: and how much you've meant to me
in my life and i know you've got

[case_thorp]: good things to say so thanks for
being here today

[andy_blanchard]: it's my pleasure thanks for having me
on the podcast

[crosland_stuart]: well andy we love to begin by
giving our audience just a sense of a

[crosland_stuart]: you personally and so if you could
tell us a little bit about yourself

[case_thorp]: ye

[crosland_stuart]: and why you enjoy your work as
a therapist or a counsellor

[andy_blanchard]: sure i've been a counsellor for over
twenty years and before that i had some

[andy_blanchard]: ministry opportunities both with youth and with
adults and small group circumstances but i really

[andy_blanchard]: enjoy the counseling aspect because you get
to walk with people through some of the

[andy_blanchard]: most

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: highest and the most low lows and
walking through them and hopefully providing

[crosland_stuart]: ye

[andy_blanchard]: a great partner in their journey get

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: to see the gospel

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: working out on a daily basis as
god works to redeem

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[andy_blanchard]: and restore things that are broken in
our lives it's challenging in a way that

[andy_blanchard]: requires and encourages people to continue growing
so

[case_thorp]: yah

[andy_blanchard]: it's just a lot of it's challenging
but it's good work so really enjoy it

[crosland_stuart]: well i know we all greatly appreciate
when people are walking with us particularly through

[crosland_stuart]: crises so thank you for your work
as we think about our topic today i

[crosland_stuart]: just can't quit thinking about a quote
or a comment a friend of mine gave

[crosland_stuart]: to me the other day when he
said when we christians think about our lives

[crosland_stuart]: beyond the church we tend to have
a greater affinity with our political party then

[crosland_stuart]: we do with our theological beliefs and
while sadly i would concur with my friend

[crosland_stuart]: m i think that's further fueled by
our inability to properly distinguish our emotions from

[crosland_stuart]: our principles um and so the question
for you is how do we help ourselves

[crosland_stuart]: in separating our emotions from those principles
that should be respected

[andy_blanchard]: great question and almost to answer it
in a different direction but probably along what

[andy_blanchard]: we're talking about no that's entirely possible
to separate

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: your emotions from your beliefs we have
to factor them in as an integral part

[andy_blanchard]: of how we make decisions because there
are so many decisions that we make in

[andy_blanchard]: life a daily basis bigger ones that
we make that seem to have the most

[andy_blanchard]: impact on us are appropriately emotional so
i think divorcing it one way or the

[andy_blanchard]: other where it's just a pure logic
and i'm just going to make it on

[andy_blanchard]: principle or i'm just going to make
it on emotion those are both kind of

[andy_blanchard]: fallacies because it's inaccurate it's just not
a really good reflection of how we actually

[andy_blanchard]: go about

[case_thorp]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: day in and day out there's

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[andy_blanchard]: always a mix of those two so
we need to raise our awareness of how

[andy_blanchard]: our emotions affect our principles and how
our principles affect our emotions

[case_thorp]: i was moved by hearing tim keller
recently talk about how anger is one of

[case_thorp]: the highest expressions of love because you
care even jesus got angry so anger is

[case_thorp]: not near bad thing it's just the
most visceral responsive love as opposed to apathy

[case_thorp]: that when you don't care you don't
get angry

[andy_blanchard]: hm

[case_thorp]: and so that makes me think okay
if i love this principle this way of

[case_thorp]: ing or doing and i get angry
about something that's not inappropriate but how do

[case_thorp]: i contain it or direct it in
a way that doesn't impact my co worker

[crosland_stuart]: yes

[andy_blanchard]: well i think that it's good to
have the anger response it's just it is

[andy_blanchard]: it appropriate to the level of anger
is it appropriate

[crosland_stuart]: well

[andy_blanchard]: to what i'm actually being angry about
because a lot of times we

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: can get worked up about things that
make us angry because we're listening to people

[andy_blanchard]: that share our belief system or share
our particular olitical persuasion and their intent is

[andy_blanchard]: not necessarily to foster love and care
for others so much it is to continue

[andy_blanchard]: restating principles to the point where they
become more a dogma or you know a

[andy_blanchard]: core belief that you can't tread

[case_thorp]: m

[andy_blanchard]: i think when we let our principles
escape ones that we need to hold them

[andy_blanchard]: in from the standpoint of we need
to love our neighbors so if

[case_thorp]: yeah

[andy_blanchard]: i'm not loving my neighbor well by
blowing up at them because they have a

[andy_blanchard]: different political belief for a different space
than i do i'm missing the larger point

[andy_blanchard]: of what jesus was kind of really

[case_thorp]: ah

[andy_blanchard]: sharing with us about how we love
our neighbors is really how we're going to

[andy_blanchard]: be known

[case_thorp]: can you give us an example of
maybe a client you've worked with where this

[case_thorp]: was a

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[case_thorp]: real struggle for them and how you
guided them

[andy_blanchard]: i think it's struggle i mean certainly
specifically for a particular client but i can

[andy_blanchard]: generally speak of people that i've counselled
with because i council with people all across

[andy_blanchard]: the spectrum servative liberal libertarian apathetic i
mean from a political standpoint i get the

[andy_blanchard]: whole gamut of folks and all of
them have interesting relationships with god but how

[andy_blanchard]: there how they choose to kind of
if they get i tracked on being more

[andy_blanchard]: more political about things and that's

[crosland_stuart]: well

[andy_blanchard]: not necessarily a bad thing becomes a
bad thing when it becomes intrusive in the

[andy_blanchard]: rest of their lives all they do
is listen to one form they're only listening

[andy_blanchard]: to one media source or maybe they
have two and they continue just they just

[andy_blanchard]: kind of continue to consume that it
creates more anxiety creates more anger it creates

[andy_blanchard]: more

[case_thorp]: okay

[andy_blanchard]: because that's what keeps us coming back
for more media is if i'm afraid of

[andy_blanchard]: something or i'm angry about something i'm
much more likely to tune back in to

[andy_blanchard]: see what might have happened in the
last thirty seconds since i left my phone

[andy_blanchard]: however most of those folks taking a
fast from some of that social media from

[andy_blanchard]: some of that television media or talk
radio or whatever that is that's kind of

[andy_blanchard]: feeling that sometimes helps them reset and
get back into a space

[case_thorp]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: where

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: not quite so anxious walking into the
day i can bring

[case_thorp]: a

[andy_blanchard]: more of my foul mind my full
heart to the conversation rather than just kind

[andy_blanchard]: of being wound up for the next
disaster that strikes politically or go politically

[case_thorp]: m m well the political for sure
is so electric right now let's think about

[case_thorp]: the workplace so

[andy_blanchard]: m

[case_thorp]: one of our listeners might be on
the assembly line or

[andy_blanchard]: hm

[case_thorp]: at a board room or work dealing
with their colleagues and we're seeing so many

[case_thorp]: different principle positions on race or principled
positions on sexuality and gender so what would

[case_thorp]: you say to someone in your work
place how do you find the common good

[case_thorp]: when you know somebody is coming from
a very different point of view on some

[case_thorp]: of these hot topics

[andy_blanchard]: m um creative way of engaging people
that are coming from a different position is

[andy_blanchard]: to be very very curious sincerely curious
about them

[crosland_stuart]: m

[andy_blanchard]: the beliefs didn't kind of exist because
they're consuming the

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: wrong media or they're not

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: listening to the right sermons or they're
following the wrong theology there's more to the

[andy_blanchard]: story like they probably have personality the
personality to have more of their person or

[andy_blanchard]: their personal experience has

[case_thorp]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: has shaped and molded some of that
and i think the way we can engage

[andy_blanchard]: conversation in that and i think that's
really a big deal as having conversation is

[andy_blanchard]: to be curious about it deeply curious
about what it's about for them asking good

[andy_blanchard]: open ended questions of them where did
you come up with this

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[andy_blanchard]: what makes this so important to you
you help me understand why you feel so

[andy_blanchard]: passionately about this those are great questions
just to kind of continue drawing them out

[andy_blanchard]: because one of the things that i've
observed for most people is we don't feel

[andy_blanchard]: like anybody listens specially when

[crosland_stuart]: m

[andy_blanchard]: we start talking about politics

[case_thorp]: m

[andy_blanchard]: especially when we start talking about something
that i know you disagree with you get

[andy_blanchard]: the you know i have teenagers at
home and they kind of give you the

[andy_blanchard]: tune out face you know that teenagers
are famous for

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[case_thorp]: yeah

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[andy_blanchard]: so when they give

[case_thorp]: yeah

[andy_blanchard]: you the tune out face it's like
because

[crosland_stuart]: i

[andy_blanchard]: you're talking and you're not listening listening
to what they're sharing

[crosland_stuart]: m

[andy_blanchard]: is a way of actually loving them
well even if you don't agree being respectful

[andy_blanchard]: and curious is very honoring and very
dignifying for that

[case_thorp]: kay

[crosland_stuart]: ah

[case_thorp]: we'll cut this

[crosland_stuart]: ah

[case_thorp]: you said something

[case_thorp]: yeah okay so you talk about listening
okay you got a client there in your

[case_thorp]: office and they say they say to
you i don't know how to listen um

[case_thorp]: i just erupt or all the thoughts
the contradictions

[crosland_stuart]: ah

[case_thorp]: come

[andy_blanchard]: m

[case_thorp]: what do i do

[andy_blanchard]: great question guess i would explore kind
of what goes on in me if i'm

[andy_blanchard]: that person

[case_thorp]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: i want to know what's going on
in me that that i can't listen to

[andy_blanchard]: them and if i'm expecting other people
to listen to me holds me back from

[andy_blanchard]: offering them that same level of respect

[case_thorp]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: and courtesy because we've lost some of
that ability to have um positional conversations that

[andy_blanchard]: aren't personal in a way that becomes
attacking so because i've married so much of

[andy_blanchard]: my principle to my person it's hard
to separate

[case_thorp]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: at times and understandably so because there
very important topics and issues and things that

[andy_blanchard]: are going on that we very much
identify with being able to have that conversation

[andy_blanchard]: requires that i develop those skills for
me so i would say if that's something

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: that you're struggling with got

[case_thorp]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: to look at

[case_thorp]: okay

[andy_blanchard]: you have the opportunity to look at
what

[case_thorp]: a

[andy_blanchard]: holds me back from being able to
sit with somebody who i disagree with and

[andy_blanchard]: at least respectfully

[case_thorp]: ah

[andy_blanchard]: listen to them and why would i
expect that in return from them if i

[andy_blanchard]: can't offer it to

[case_thorp]: ye

[andy_blanchard]: them in the first place

[case_thorp]: i love that i've married so much
of my principle to my person

[andy_blanchard]: hm

[case_thorp]: i wonder what about these times are
we marrying our principal to our person hood

[case_thorp]: any more

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[case_thorp]: now than maybe in other ages

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[case_thorp]: or are big events in society just
causing us to face those things and question

[case_thorp]: the more

[crosland_stuart]: or

[case_thorp]: i'm not

[crosland_stuart]: are

[case_thorp]: so

[crosland_stuart]: we

[case_thorp]: sure

[crosland_stuart]: being selective about which principles we're marrying
to

[case_thorp]: m what do you mean by that

[crosland_stuart]: because love your neighbor isn't one that
i think many of us are married to

[crosland_stuart]: um and therefore you see the

[case_thorp]: oh

[crosland_stuart]: you know the lack of respect lack
of civility i mean andy i've

[andy_blanchard]: m

[crosland_stuart]: had people tell me well i have
a friend who depending upon the topic if

[crosland_stuart]: politics comes up get up and leave
the table and i don't know how to

[crosland_stuart]: encourage her honestly because i just think
that's

[case_thorp]: is it because she's trying to set
boundaries or she knows she gets too upset

[crosland_stuart]: well i think she would say she
knows she gets too upset but i think

[crosland_stuart]: i think that's a cop out my
gosh where adults we need to sit at

[crosland_stuart]: the table

[case_thorp]: m

[crosland_stuart]: um and i don't know

[case_thorp]: m

[crosland_stuart]: i don't know how to encourage her
oh

[andy_blanchard]: you know everybody is a little bit
different and so obviously your friend has some

[andy_blanchard]: strong feelings about things knowing her or
kind of where she's coming from i think

[andy_blanchard]: in a principle fan fashion we want
to kind of create a space where hey

[andy_blanchard]: i'm good and you may have to
pave the way with our friendship will survive

[andy_blanchard]: our differences and beliefs i'm just really
curious about what makes

[crosland_stuart]: hm

[andy_blanchard]: this so important for you and start
to draw that out m recent experience i

[andy_blanchard]: think in the last i mean certainly
in the last ten years but over the

[andy_blanchard]: last three years with covid and all
of that slowing of our thought process you

[andy_blanchard]: know social media silos us into different
buckets by what you like and what not

[andy_blanchard]: the algorithms are not designed to give
you a diversity of thought their

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: design really to give you kind of
a i want you to keep coming back

[andy_blanchard]: for more and so if i find
things that you like and give you more

[andy_blanchard]: of them you'll stay on my platform
longer which means i can sell more and

[andy_blanchard]: generate

[case_thorp]: that

[andy_blanchard]: more revenue or whatever that looks like
so we're battling against the way we even

[andy_blanchard]: receive our information now and not that
that's the topic of this but it's an

[andy_blanchard]: invitation one on

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: one an invitation to kind of come
and let's have a conversation let's learn to

[andy_blanchard]: be civil with each other let's

[case_thorp]: yeah

[andy_blanchard]: even as people are moving from church

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[andy_blanchard]: to church or something else is going
on and

[case_thorp]: okay

[andy_blanchard]: they're deeply wounded about something it's like
i remember sitting in a small group many

[andy_blanchard]: years ago were one of the couples
announced that they were going to get a

[andy_blanchard]: divorce we kind of knew the back
story of what was going on in their

[andy_blanchard]: relationship

[case_thorp]: ah

[andy_blanchard]: but that was really shocking for you
know five married couples to sit around and

[andy_blanchard]: one of the five to tell everybody
they were getting a divorce one of our

[andy_blanchard]: friends without missing a beat basically looked
at them both and said well we're not

[andy_blanchard]: picking between the two of you not
going to pick one to be friends with

[andy_blanchard]: him one not to be

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[andy_blanchard]: friends

[case_thorp]: wow

[andy_blanchard]: with we're goin to love you both
even though we may not agree with what

[andy_blanchard]: you're choosing i think that's a really
interesting illustration of here's how we can move

[andy_blanchard]: intentionally into spaces that are difficult because
that's a messy circumstance if there ever was

[andy_blanchard]: one

[crosland_stuart]: hm

[andy_blanchard]: like politics

[case_thorp]: m

[crosland_stuart]: right

[case_thorp]: m

[andy_blanchard]: how do we commit ourselves to loving
our enemies

[case_thorp]: well that

[andy_blanchard]: and loving our neighbors

[case_thorp]: that so earlier

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[case_thorp]: you said i've married so much of
my principal to my person when you give

[case_thorp]: that example of the couple in your
small group i hear the response of the

[case_thorp]: others i love your person

[crosland_stuart]: he

[case_thorp]: guardless of your principles

[andy_blanchard]: m

[case_thorp]: regardless of your choice with this difficult
marriage situation we're going to love you both

[andy_blanchard]: i think i mean i think if
we're looking

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: at

[case_thorp]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: where we are is you know in
america and know

[case_thorp]: yeah

[andy_blanchard]: whatever flavor we're in right now being
accepted in your space is really significant accepting

[andy_blanchard]: your person doesn't mean i'm

[case_thorp]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: accepting all of your ideas as well
loving your person but if if i've made

[andy_blanchard]: those two synonymous

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[andy_blanchard]: and so if you love me then
you have to accept all of my choices

[andy_blanchard]: i would disagree with that i don't
think that's that's really really a high bar

[andy_blanchard]: to say i agree with you on
everything i love you regardless of whether you

[andy_blanchard]: vote for the candidate

[case_thorp]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: i want you to vote for or
not or whether you support the initiative or

[andy_blanchard]: your feelings about a recent court ruling
or not i love you regardless doesn't mean

[andy_blanchard]: i always agree with you but i
still love you

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[case_thorp]: ah

[crosland_stuart]: you know you had said earlier that
one tip that people might want to consider

[case_thorp]: m

[crosland_stuart]: particularly if you're struggling listening or there
could be other things to take to sort

[crosland_stuart]: of as from your news feed or
your social media what are some other tips

[crosland_stuart]: that would really help us sort of
police ourselves so that um our principles stay

[crosland_stuart]: intact and the emotions stay intact and
that we we achieve the balance that we

[crosland_stuart]: need to have in order to love
our neighbor well

[case_thorp]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: it's a great question i think i
guess from my perspective you have to seek

[andy_blanchard]: out people to have conversations with know
and they

[crosland_stuart]: hm

[andy_blanchard]: may not be in your kind of
group or tribe or whatever your little community

[andy_blanchard]: is of really engaging people because more
and more we're connected through devices the less

[andy_blanchard]: and less we're actually connected in reality
and i think some things

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[andy_blanchard]: about having devices and texting and tweeting
and all the wonderful posting and things that

[andy_blanchard]: we can do are great but some
of it really

[case_thorp]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: enables us to kind of take shots

[crosland_stuart]: yes

[andy_blanchard]: that we can we would say things
on mind that we would never say face

[andy_blanchard]: to face

[crosland_stuart]: right

[andy_blanchard]: m

[case_thorp]: m

[andy_blanchard]: so i think from that standpoint

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[case_thorp]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: the more we break out of this
sense of isolation

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: by having conversations with people

[case_thorp]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: like your friend who doesn't want to
talk politics well maybe we have to warm

[andy_blanchard]: our way up getting there just

[case_thorp]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: to build some trust back into our
inter personal

[case_thorp]: yeah

[andy_blanchard]: interaction

[case_thorp]: but i would also apply that to
seeking a conversation

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[case_thorp]: partner whom you know may hold a
different point of view but somebody who's safe

[case_thorp]: and can have a conversation and know
that they love me

[andy_blanchard]: hm

[case_thorp]: even above beyond my principles i have
found myself drifting or leaning away from some

[case_thorp]: friends that i know love the principles
more than the person and so it's not

[case_thorp]: kind of he relationships i want to
be in

[andy_blanchard]: i agree i think those are harder
to be in because they're kind of leaning

[andy_blanchard]: against the very space that you're trying
to avoid you know the enemy becomes not

[andy_blanchard]: necessarily that the person is the enemy
kind of the orthodoxy if i can use

[andy_blanchard]: that term like that in so principally
minded that i've lost sight of people that

[case_thorp]: m

[andy_blanchard]: i'm really talking to are actually people

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[andy_blanchard]: they wake up in the morning and

[case_thorp]: hm

[andy_blanchard]: they also usually have a coupe

[case_thorp]: m

[andy_blanchard]: of coffee or something before they go
to work and they pay a mortgage and

[andy_blanchard]: they have concerns and they have hopes
and dreams and fears and it doesn't mean

[andy_blanchard]: that we should abandon principles

[case_thorp]: m

[andy_blanchard]: and just love people willy nilly that
that that doesn't work either

[case_thorp]: ah

[andy_blanchard]: it has to be both and so
that tension between those two constantly continues to

[andy_blanchard]: shift us one way or the othe
so for someone

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[andy_blanchard]: who's more principle that may mean that
i have to spend more time really loving

[andy_blanchard]: and caring for people but for someone
who's more loving and accepting and just kind

[andy_blanchard]: of will accept anything i may have
to move more towards what do i actually

[andy_blanchard]: believe in just avoiding it because i'm
you know not doing any kind of intellectual

[andy_blanchard]: diligence on my own part to qualify
what my beliefs are really understand

[case_thorp]: okay i want to take that to
somebody's balls because then you get the whole

[case_thorp]: power

[andy_blanchard]: m

[case_thorp]: dynamic and there's a individual who's boss
has very different principles on some certain social

[case_thorp]: issues clearly there's got to be some
degree of harmony if you're in the same

[case_thorp]: workplace working towards the same roduct or
service but you begin to wonder if the

[case_thorp]: bosses choices for your company or even
in their review of you is coming from

[case_thorp]: that other principle set how would you
encourage somebody to cope with that

[andy_blanchard]: that's a i mean that's a that's
a challenging question it's a challenging situation for

[andy_blanchard]: that person i think to a degree
i would encourage people to continue to be

[andy_blanchard]: curious about what's going on around them
and ask the question it depends also kind

[andy_blanchard]: of on what industry they're in and
you know how much dema nd the industry

[andy_blanchard]: is from just a practical standpoint of
can i afford to lose my job

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: some very principled

[crosland_stuart]: right

[andy_blanchard]: individuals would say we need to quit
because it's not supporting the values that you

[andy_blanchard]: have but there's also space where you
know you got a mortgage to pay and

[andy_blanchard]: kids the feed and people to put
through college and that sort of stuff so

[andy_blanchard]: i think there's certainly a diversity of
enough s is to work that maybe i'm

[andy_blanchard]: looking long term for a different place
but the other spot is really being salt

[andy_blanchard]: and lit in a space that needs
salt and light and so i don't have

[andy_blanchard]: to be principled and outspoken about it
if i'm respected and i'm i care for

[andy_blanchard]: people well and actually end up becoming
a um a space of an opportunity to

[andy_blanchard]: have a different engaging conversation with that
person while still being very respectful of other

[case_thorp]: m

[andy_blanchard]: people's beliefs in the midst of it

[case_thorp]: and clearly this is like a typical
workplace not at a church

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[case_thorp]: or a political

[andy_blanchard]: yeah

[case_thorp]: campaign where you know we're here because
of principle

[andy_blanchard]: yeah

[case_thorp]: right

[andy_blanchard]: but

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: you know

[crosland_stuart]: if

[andy_blanchard]: but

[crosland_stuart]: only

[andy_blanchard]: even in

[crosland_stuart]: that

[andy_blanchard]: that

[crosland_stuart]: were

[andy_blanchard]: there's

[case_thorp]: oh

[crosland_stuart]: true

[andy_blanchard]: diversity yeah

[case_thorp]: m

[andy_blanchard]: yeah

[crosland_stuart]: well andy

[andy_blanchard]: i don't

[case_thorp]: h

[crosland_stuart]: let

[case_thorp]: oh

[crosland_stuart]: me you know you've brought up some
great points and great things for us to

[crosland_stuart]: chew on but i have to

[case_thorp]: ah

[crosland_stuart]: say you know whether it's coming out
of covid or this huge in luck of

[crosland_stuart]: work that

[case_thorp]: yeah

[crosland_stuart]: has happened as a result of post
covid um i think a lot of people

[crosland_stuart]: are kind of where i am and
that is we're exhausted and this

[andy_blanchard]: m

[crosland_stuart]: idea of okay i now have to
go seek out conversations

[case_thorp]: yeah

[crosland_stuart]: i've got to figure out how to
listen better i've got to i've got to

[crosland_stuart]: love my neighbor i don't like my
neighbor you know how do you

[case_thorp]: oh

[crosland_stuart]: you know how do we kind of
fill our refill our buckets

[case_thorp]: ah

[crosland_stuart]: if you will so that we've got
the capacity to be more faithful in the

[crosland_stuart]: space the time and space where god
has called us oh

[andy_blanchard]: i think you're leaning into a space
of what it gets thrown around a lot

[andy_blanchard]: but self care and the idea of
okay so how do i allow god to

[andy_blanchard]: minister to me so that out of
the overflow of god's grace in my life

[crosland_stuart]: m

[andy_blanchard]: that can minister to others so i'm
not doing the spiritual disciplines that you know

[andy_blanchard]: that are essential for my own faith
and well being i like our bodies right

[andy_blanchard]: if i'm not working out and if
i'm not eating well i won't continue to

[andy_blanchard]: fit into my pants long term doctor
continues to give me better

[case_thorp]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: notes you know

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[andy_blanchard]: those things are kind of we know
that like i can't eat apple pie every

[andy_blanchard]: day even though i would probably like
to however at the same time if i'm

[andy_blanchard]: not taking care of myself spiritually am
i a worshiping icorporately with others and spending

[andy_blanchard]: time and prayer spending time in the
word really leaning into community where i can

[andy_blanchard]: be encouraged

[case_thorp]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: and i'm trying to give out of
my own strength

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: that my experience

[crosland_stuart]: ah

[andy_blanchard]: always looks ugly when i allow

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[andy_blanchard]: myself to be at the end of
my own strength and i give out of

[andy_blanchard]: the overflow of what god provides and
i just have to pay attention to then

[andy_blanchard]: there's there's actually lots of energy there
to do things because it's not mine it's

[andy_blanchard]: his god provides what i need

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: in those

[case_thorp]: so

[andy_blanchard]: moments and he provides above what i
need to minister to others because not me

[andy_blanchard]: doing anything that's god doing it through
me so i

[crosland_stuart]: case

[andy_blanchard]: would encourage

[crosland_stuart]: that ill

[andy_blanchard]: people

[crosland_stuart]: preach

[andy_blanchard]: like if you're exhausted there yeah

[crosland_stuart]: yeah oh

[case_thorp]: yes that

[andy_blanchard]: yeah

[case_thorp]: will preach

[andy_blanchard]: any easier said than done totally

[crosland_stuart]: ye

[andy_blanchard]: but

[crosland_stuart]: uh

[andy_blanchard]: it's that deal

[case_thorp]: yeah

[andy_blanchard]: of like if it's really coming out
of the overflow then i get to participate

[andy_blanchard]: and just kind of ride the wave
with where god's already moving takes the pressure

[andy_blanchard]: off me to be so faithful that
i am the one that my faithfulness is

[andy_blanchard]: somehow carrying the day because i'm pretty
sure i know that my faithfulness

[crosland_stuart]: m

[andy_blanchard]: will not carry the day it's god's
faithfulness to work through us that will

[case_thorp]: okay

[crosland_stuart]: those are great reminders oh

[case_thorp]: well and one of our convictions and
this is what we built into everything with

[case_thorp]: the collaborate is work is the spiritual
formation and yeah self care is an element

[case_thorp]: in the popular word right now but
god has known from the how we are

[case_thorp]: made and communion with him and how
important that is so with each one of

[case_thorp]: these podcasts we create a spiritual formation
tool and if you're listening or watching go

[case_thorp]: to our website and click on that
because it will be built off of this

[case_thorp]: episode help you go deeper but i
hear you and i mean you've helped me

[case_thorp]: in record as the value of the
interior life the need for such rhythms

[crosland_stuart]: i

[case_thorp]: our society embraces physical working out but
the inner if the spiritual working out is

[case_thorp]: there could you speak to some of
your personal practices and rhythms

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[andy_blanchard]: sure i mean i don't know that
they are you know poster worthy as a

[andy_blanchard]: inspiration but it's certainly

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: a learning edge there i find that

[case_thorp]: need

[andy_blanchard]: for

[case_thorp]: it

[andy_blanchard]: me i don't do well sitting still
um a lot of people talk about having

[andy_blanchard]: a quiet time and really being able
to do that well for me my quietest

[andy_blanchard]: times are actually when i'm walking or
running clears my head and it gets me

[andy_blanchard]: quiet enough in my heart to really
listen mostly because i'm trying not to throw

[andy_blanchard]: up

[crosland_stuart]: m

[andy_blanchard]: but you know

[case_thorp]: yeah

[andy_blanchard]: that

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: that's okay because it's but but it
does it does kind of tune

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: out some of the other noise in
the background m sometimes it's just being the

[andy_blanchard]: being in the fellowship of other people
who are who i know i can trust

[andy_blanchard]: and who i can share things with
also it's very encouraging so whether it's deep

[andy_blanchard]: and meaningful or light hearted and we're
just having a good belly laugh these are

[andy_blanchard]: great places to recharge ironically you know
our small group this year is reading through

[andy_blanchard]: the bible and so kind of challenge
to each other and right now i'm in

[andy_blanchard]: the middle of ecclesiastes which does not
always seem like to be the most encouraging

[andy_blanchard]: book on the planet

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[case_thorp]: uh

[andy_blanchard]: but at the same time it's

[crosland_stuart]: what did

[andy_blanchard]: kind

[crosland_stuart]: i say

[andy_blanchard]: of encouraging in a deep way that
if if everything is like a vapor then

[andy_blanchard]: we should enjoy simple blessings that god
gives us having a meal with some friends

[andy_blanchard]: and having

[case_thorp]: m

[andy_blanchard]: connections with our family and having opportunities
to be together and worship and serve

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: those simple things of being present in
the moment i think really can

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: allow us to experience

[case_thorp]: m

[andy_blanchard]: what god is doing right here and
now because i can't go back in time

[andy_blanchard]: and experience stuff that god's already done
other than to remind myself of that of

[andy_blanchard]: his faithfulness i can't worry so much
about what's

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[andy_blanchard]: happening in the future because i

[case_thorp]: m

[andy_blanchard]: don't

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[andy_blanchard]: know you know certainly the last three
years should have taught us that

[case_thorp]: yeah

[andy_blanchard]: if we haven't learned it before

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: so encouraging people to be

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: present

[case_thorp]: m

[andy_blanchard]: in what's going on

[case_thorp]: m

[andy_blanchard]: in whatever circumstance for me i find
that

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: when i'm i'm walking with friends or
i'm doing something that i really really enjoy

[andy_blanchard]: it helps even when i'm not being
present

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: and focusing on being right in the
moment think gives us the great opportunity to

[andy_blanchard]: see what god is actually doing here
rather than worrying about what hasn't been done

[andy_blanchard]: or what needs to be done

[case_thorp]: m that reminds me of something i
often repeat from c s louis where he

[case_thorp]: writes that the sin of living in
the past is the sin of regret

[crosland_stuart]: m

[case_thorp]: the sin of living in the future
is the sin of lust not early sexual

[case_thorp]: but just the longing the wanting and
how

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[case_thorp]: god is not a god of i
was or i will be he's a god

[case_thorp]: if i am and so that living
in the

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[case_thorp]: present in the moment and what a
healthier better place it is to be

[andy_blanchard]: hm it also alleviates or

[case_thorp]: m

[andy_blanchard]: go ahead gonna say something case

[case_thorp]: no i was actually cut that don't
worry um crossin i wonder could you just

[case_thorp]: speak to some of your rhythms for
your spiritual formation

[crosland_stuart]: oh well i'm going to echo what
andy said i don't know that any of

[crosland_stuart]: it is poster worthy but i have
learned tricks over the year about how to

[crosland_stuart]: keep my attention in focus and i
do better when when i write things or

[crosland_stuart]: journal them um not my thoughts but
prayers or prayer lists or those kinds of

[crosland_stuart]: things um and try and once a
week excuse me once a week i do

[crosland_stuart]: try to take a few minutes to
sort of clear my mind in my heart

[crosland_stuart]: and really kind of bring before the
lord what are those things that are really

[crosland_stuart]: burdening me and surprisingly it took me
a long time to be able to get

[crosland_stuart]: to the point where i could honestly
answer that question i wasn't trying to be

[crosland_stuart]: dishonest with god but i just i
was either moving so quickly or pushing things

[case_thorp]: yes

[crosland_stuart]: down or something but the practice of
that has really helped me go okay these

[crosland_stuart]: are the things that are bothering me
this week so

[case_thorp]: hm

[crosland_stuart]: what are some of your

[case_thorp]: sure

[crosland_stuart]: practices case

[case_thorp]: yeah well i like a journal and
i've just filled up one and i've got

[case_thorp]: some new ones in the mail and
i hope

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[case_thorp]: they get here soon and that lates
to i've been

[crosland_stuart]: m

[case_thorp]: working in the practice of a silent
retreat every year and that's a full five

[case_thorp]: days in february but i was encouraged
to also do a little many three day

[case_thorp]: chick in in the summer and so
i actually tomorrow

[crosland_stuart]: so

[case_thorp]: leave for that and that's why i
want my

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[case_thorp]: new journal

[andy_blanchard]: oh

[case_thorp]: to get here

[crosland_stuart]: i

[case_thorp]: but during those times i have the
blue book it's a devotional book that works

[case_thorp]: one through different topics and scripture and
other writings related to that one topic um

[case_thorp]: worship music just it really speaks deeply
to my heart so and all kinds i

[case_thorp]: love the old hymns of the faith
but also like particular contemporary artist core as

[case_thorp]: barry oh my goodness if you're listening
go listen to core as barry's songs the

[case_thorp]: words and the things he unpacks if
just in this season and so very deeply

[case_thorp]: to me so also and i'll tell
you i mean i'm not trying to push

[case_thorp]: our spiritual formation tools but it's been
in doing this work with the collaborative that

[case_thorp]: i've been exposed to

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[case_thorp]: so many more helpful too as

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[case_thorp]: to work somebody through a period of
time like saint ignacious prayer of examine because

[case_thorp]: you know i'm a little a d
d and all over the place and so

[case_thorp]: i like the structure i need to
be taken into the heart of god through

[case_thorp]: a series of ideas thoughts anthony anthony

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[case_thorp]: andy you talked about

[crosland_stuart]: what

[case_thorp]: nuts and still i love walking

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[case_thorp]: the labyrinth

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[case_thorp]: and some folks may think oh that's
too new age it's not about the shape

[case_thorp]: it's about the getting my

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[case_thorp]: physical body doings something purposeless so that
then my mind and my heart can focus

[case_thorp]: on the lord so one day we're
going to get one

[crosland_stuart]: yeah

[case_thorp]: put in at first presbyterian church one
day one day

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: but

[case_thorp]: uh

[andy_blanchard]: i think those are all those are

[case_thorp]: uh

[andy_blanchard]: all

[case_thorp]: well andy thank you

[andy_blanchard]: i was just to say i think
those are

[case_thorp]: yeah

[andy_blanchard]: all really wonderful things because everyone is
a little bit different and so if you're

[andy_blanchard]: struggling to find your space

[crosland_stuart]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: of what works for you use the
guidance

[case_thorp]: yeah

[andy_blanchard]: that is provided

[case_thorp]: m

[andy_blanchard]: then

[case_thorp]: yeah

[andy_blanchard]: and then make it yours you know
god is very personal about that and how

[andy_blanchard]: we connect him

[case_thorp]: hm

[andy_blanchard]: so anxious to share to compare ourselves
with everybody

[case_thorp]: oh

[andy_blanchard]: else and that does not help being
present with him you know so appreciate both

[andy_blanchard]: of your

[case_thorp]: m

[andy_blanchard]: perspectives on it because it's different than
mine and that's great love that

[case_thorp]: well and counseling i loved going to
see andy and processing i've also got a

[case_thorp]: spiritual director who is kind of like
a coach to hold me accountable to push

[case_thorp]: me on uh spiritual god related things
o it's good well andy thank you so

[case_thorp]: much i really appreciate you being with
us

[andy_blanchard]: my pleasure really enjoyed it thanks again

[case_thorp]: he